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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government is moving to strengthen and modernize sexual

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Speaker 1: offenses legislation. The reforms would see the offense of sexual

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Speaker 1: relationship with a child replaced with repeated sexual abuse, the

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Speaker 1: introduction of new offenses including grooming a child to procure

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Speaker 1: them to engage in sexual activity, as well as public masturbation. Now,

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Speaker 1: the amendments to be debated today will bring the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory in line with other states and territories and acts

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Speaker 1: on recommendations of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to

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Speaker 1: Child sexual Abuse. The government have well, they have sexual

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Speaker 1: assault Advocate Grace Tame here in Darwin as well to

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Speaker 1: help push those changes. Now, joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: to explain this further is the Attorney General, Chancey Paid.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Attorney General,

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Speaker 1: can you talk us through the proposed changes and why

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Speaker 1: they're needed.

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Speaker 2: Yes, certainly so Today before Parliament will have this Sexual

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Speaker 2: Offense's legislation amendments. They're up for debate and this is

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Speaker 2: about strengthening and modernizing our sexual offenses legislation here in

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Speaker 2: the territory. We've taken quite a comprehensive approach. The legislation

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Speaker 2: is a victim centered including the work of victim survivor advocates.

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Speaker 2: So there's a number of changes, Katie, and certainly one

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Speaker 2: of those is a really important change, and that's removing

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Speaker 2: the current offense of sexual relationship with a child and

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Speaker 2: replacing that with repeated sexual abuse, because that is what

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Speaker 2: it needs to be. It's not a relationship and it's

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Speaker 2: not consensual. So look, they are changes that are coming through.

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Speaker 2: We've also, as you've outlined, we've made it a criminal

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Speaker 2: offense for stealthy and we've brought in a new offense

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Speaker 2: for grooming of a child. And they're really important changes

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Speaker 2: that will strengthen the response and the outcomes for victims.

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Speaker 2: And Katie, another one we've added is really important as well,

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Speaker 2: and that's to stop child sex offenders from relying of

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Speaker 2: evidence of good character during sentencing.

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Speaker 1: Now, tell me with the changing of the offensive sexual

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Speaker 1: relationship with a child to repeated sexual abuse. In some ways,

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Speaker 1: I guess without using that word child, it sounds as

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Speaker 1: though it's being warded down. But that isn't the case,

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Speaker 1: is it.

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Speaker 2: No, No, it's actually being strengthened to better respond and

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Speaker 2: that's in line with the Royal Commission's recommendations. This is

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Speaker 2: something that victim survivors such as Grace Tame have been

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Speaker 2: calling for for some time and this is about making

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Speaker 2: sure that it removes the language or the word around

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Speaker 2: relationship because it's not a relationship. It's an abuse of

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Speaker 2: power by an adult and we need to call it

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Speaker 2: out for what it is, and that is repeated sexual

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Speaker 2: abuse generallationship.

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Speaker 1: I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody who

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Speaker 1: disagrees with that. Now, what changes are proposed when it

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Speaker 1: comes to protecting young people from exploitation by a personal

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Speaker 1: authority or a care.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we are bringing in the new offense of grooming

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Speaker 2: that hasn't been featured in legislation before. It's being featured

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Speaker 2: in the legislation that's before Parliament today to stamp that

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Speaker 2: out and say that that form of abuse is certainly

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Speaker 2: not tolerated and not accepted here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: So we will absolutely be working with that. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: range of work that needs to be done, but these

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Speaker 2: offenses protect young people from exploitation by persons in positions

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Speaker 2: of authority and persons with a cognitive impairment from exploitation

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Speaker 2: by their care is.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me making public masturbation and offense is said

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Speaker 1: to help identify repeat offenders, But it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be retrospective, is it. So it's only going to be

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Speaker 1: offenses committed after the new law takes effect will help

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Speaker 1: identify those repeat offenders.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So that particular offense of public masturbation is to

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Speaker 2: make it easier to identify repeat offenders from their criminal history,

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Speaker 2: so that we can absolutely stand that out because that

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Speaker 2: is certainly not acceptable well.

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Speaker 1: And it is something that unfortunately we seem to have

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Speaker 1: seen here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, so these changes today before Parliament are absolutely what's needed.

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Speaker 2: They strengthen the law, they strengthen the responses, and they

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Speaker 2: protect territorians, particularly our children. Now.

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Speaker 1: Attorney General advocates have been calling for changes to include

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Speaker 1: the ability to name accused rapists or people who've committed

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Speaker 1: sexual offenses. Why haven't you included that change?

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Speaker 2: So certainly the changes that are going through today are

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Speaker 2: a suite of measures that are being introduced. When we

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Speaker 2: look at the area the sexual offenses is a fastly

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Speaker 2: evolving landscape and these are things that we are certainly considering.

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Speaker 2: We're taking that considered approach in that particular area, Katie,

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Speaker 2: because the territory is such a small jurisdiction. We have

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Speaker 2: worked with some stakeholders who've raised concerns that naming an

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Speaker 2: accused not a sentenced, could have unintended consequences of the

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Speaker 2: victim being either a child or an adult who doesn't

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Speaker 2: want to be named, being exposed in a small town

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Speaker 2: or community. But we are working in that space, and

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Speaker 2: we hope to have some changes in contemporization soon in

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Speaker 2: that space. But we're just obviously taking a considered approach

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Speaker 2: making sure that there's all areas and there's not unintended

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Speaker 2: consequences or exposure of people who are victims who don't

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Speaker 2: want to be named.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't sound as though it's a done deal.

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Speaker 1: There could still be some changes this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Katie, I never rule out changes when it

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Speaker 2: comes to contemporizing or modernizing legislation if it's in the

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Speaker 2: best interests of the territory. So certainly we're working through

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Speaker 2: this with stakeholders to get a sense of where we

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Speaker 2: need to do and what we need to do. The

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Speaker 2: territory is pretty unique given we've got such a small

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Speaker 2: population of two hundred and fifty thousand. We just want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we're not putting victims further in

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Speaker 2: harm's way when it comes to that. But I've certainly

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Speaker 2: not ruled it.

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Speaker 1: Out well, especially though, I mean, I know that you're

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Speaker 1: saying you don't want to make it a bad change

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Speaker 1: for victims, but you've got advocates here that have been

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Speaker 1: calling for that change.

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Speaker 2: Yes, certainly, we've got advocates who have been calling for

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Speaker 2: that change. And we've also got people who don't want

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Speaker 2: to be named, who have also we've met with and

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Speaker 2: they've just cautioned around what this could mean. So we

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Speaker 2: are taking that approach. We will have some stuff coming

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Speaker 2: out soon just to continue those conversations, and Katie, we've

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Speaker 2: also referred the area of affirmative consent to the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory Law Reform Committee and they'll have a report back

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Speaker 2: to us in October around any additional changes that we

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Speaker 2: need to make in that space as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so definitely sounds as though there is still some

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Speaker 1: work underway. Attorney General, I do want to ask you

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Speaker 1: about this petition that has obviously been launched since the

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Speaker 1: passing of Decklan Lavity. Twenty three thousand people, well more

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Speaker 1: than twenty three thousand people have now signed that petition

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Speaker 1: calling for greater change when it comes to crime in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Is the Labor government going to allow

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Speaker 1: this petition to be debated?

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Speaker 2: Katie? That is before the Public Accounts Committee. I won't

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Speaker 2: speak for the members of the Public Accounts Committee. That's

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Speaker 2: a decision that they will meet and they work through

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Speaker 2: and resolve, and that's made up of a number of

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Speaker 2: members from all political affiliations. So I believe that they're

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Speaker 2: meeting at lunchtime today, Kay, So there should be some

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Speaker 2: movement or an announcement shortly after that I would have

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Speaker 2: made Well.

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Speaker 1: They are, they are meeting at lunchtime today. I guess

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Speaker 1: the concern here is for some Territorians is that it

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Speaker 1: is three Labor members on that committee, so it is

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Speaker 1: a majority Labor committee. Can you guarantee that you are

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Speaker 1: actually going to allow this to happen and you're going

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Speaker 1: to allow or that they're going to allow Territorians' voices

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Speaker 1: to be heard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Katie, I'm not going to make a decision

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Speaker 2: for the Public Accounts Committee that do you think they

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Speaker 2: should members.

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Speaker 1: Do you think they.

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Speaker 2: Should amount for the public. That'll be a matter for

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Speaker 2: them to discuss and reach a resolution on.

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm getting to is it's now really

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Speaker 1: hard to ignore the fact that you've got twenty three

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Speaker 1: thousand people that have signed this petition. So to me

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Speaker 1: it seems like a no brainer. It should be something

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Speaker 1: that you allow those voices to be heard and it

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Speaker 1: should actually be debated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, Katie, I think I just it's important to

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Speaker 2: acknowledge it shouldn't matter the number of people on a party,

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Speaker 2: because you know that would discredit people living in small,

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Speaker 2: remote communities and regional towns who don't have the sheer population.

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Speaker 2: Every petition is important and has value, and that's why

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Speaker 2: we have the mechanism where it goes to those committees

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Speaker 2: to make a decision, and that's what will happen today

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Speaker 2: at lunchtime.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it should look.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a matter for the public account for.

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Speaker 1: You as a member of the Parliament, do you think

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Speaker 1: it should be allowed to happen?

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Speaker 2: I think that all petitions are important and have a

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Speaker 2: rightful place coming to the Northern Territory Parliament and whatever

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Speaker 2: acts but how come.

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Speaker 1: You won't answer that, how come you won't just say

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Speaker 1: yes or no, because it's pretty clear cut and it

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Speaker 1: is something that a lot of people are concerned about,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of people are really worried that the

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Speaker 1: government's not taking this issue of crime as seriously as

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Speaker 1: you should be.

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Speaker 2: Well, Katie, I dispute that fact. Everything that we do

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Speaker 2: is around providing mechanisms for a safe and smarter territory,

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Speaker 2: and we've introduced a range of measures to combat crime

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Speaker 2: and anti social behavior and we've made a number of

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Speaker 2: changes since March and we'll continue to do that work.

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Speaker 1: Well, and here you've got more than twenty three thousand

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Speaker 1: people saying that they don't think that it's enough, and

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Speaker 1: you're not even prepared to answer whether you think that

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Speaker 1: it should be able to go to Parliament to be debated.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, Katie, the petition's already been tabled in

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Speaker 2: Parliament and there's a question now, and it's a procedural

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Speaker 2: question for the Public Accounts Committee whether that comes back

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Speaker 2: in for a debate, and that's what will be decided

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Speaker 2: by the Public Accounts Committee today.

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Speaker 1: Have you sat down with Declan Lavity's mum and heard

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Speaker 1: her concerns.

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Speaker 2: No, I believe that the Chief Minister has had and

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Speaker 2: the Chief Miness's Office have had conversations and have reached out,

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Speaker 2: and certainly that's an ongoing area of working communication.

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Speaker 1: Would you sit down with her, Look, if.

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Speaker 2: She wanted to meet with me, certainly would happy to

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Speaker 2: be facilitate that.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's really important that you know that

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Speaker 1: the government does realize and acknowledge how big an impact

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Speaker 1: this is having on the community right now, and how

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Speaker 1: people clearly want their voices to be heard. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know that you say every petition counts, and I

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Speaker 1: don't disagree with you. I actually think that that is right,

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Speaker 1: and there are petitions that have been much smaller that,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, you know, should be debated as well.

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Speaker 1: But when you're talking about that sheer volume, it's actually

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Speaker 1: around twenty three five hundred people that have now signed

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Speaker 1: that petition. So I just feel as though there's a

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Speaker 1: really you know, there's a really important balance here between

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Speaker 1: the government obviously taking the advice of experts, as you've

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Speaker 1: done throughout that review that happened earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: and with the police and others, but also balancing that

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Speaker 1: with the views of Territorians everyday, people that are really

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Speaker 1: worried about what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and I absolutely acknowledge that, Katie, And as I said,

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Speaker 2: we made a number of changes since March and will

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Speaker 2: continue to do that. And again I just point to

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Speaker 2: that's a decision that I'll be made by the Public

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Speaker 2: Accounts Committee today and we'll await that outcome and we'll

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Speaker 2: respond accordingly with whatever outcome has been made.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, I hope that common sense does prevail

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Speaker 1: and that it does go ahead because I think that

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Speaker 1: it is what Territorians expect. Attorney General Chancey Paike will

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Speaker 1: leave it there for this morning. I really appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: No worries, mate, cheers, thank you,