WEBVTT - 8 lessons on TDA's 8th birthday 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.720 Already and this is this is the daily, This is. 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:15.080 The daily oss Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.640 and welcome to a very special episode of the TDA podcast. 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.840 It's Wednesday, the twelfth of March. I'm Sam, I'm Zara, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.640 and today's a huge milestone for us. TDA is turning 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:26.560 eight years old. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:28.160 Yay, Happy birthday to us. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:29.159 Happy birthday to us. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:29.800 I'm exciting. 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.000 So by school metrics, I think we're in about year two, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:32.680 year three. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:34.680 Clearly it's been a long time since either of us 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:35.240 were in school. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.040 Yeah, we're starting to grow up, we're getting out, we're 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.400 finding our feet a bit more, we're discovering who we are. 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.560 Haven't hit puberty yet, so we're still we're still okay, 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.000 but stay with us for that. It's been a long time. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.800 It has been a long time. And you know, eight 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.240 years today since we sat in a cafe said hey, 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.560 why don't we give you this thing a shot? Little 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.360 did we know where we would go. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.279 And that was twenty nine and twenty two days ago. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.880 But we did actually quit our jobs until February of 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.200 twenty twenty one, and that was when we started the 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.120 podcast and newsletters. So that was one four hundred and 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.119 ninety nine days ago. But that's a lot of time, 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.280 and so today we thought we'd do something a little 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:14.760 bit different. 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.200 Yeah, we wanted to take this opportunity. You know, we've 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.880 both been told we potentially don't take enough time to 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:23.959 reflect on the journey that we've beat on, and so 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.280 we wanted to take this opportunity to do just that 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:29.640 and to reflect on the eight lessons that we've learned 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:30.959 over the last eight years. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.000 I was thinking when writing this script with you about 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.400 those early days of recording the podcast. The first couple 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.000 of episodes, listenership of about four of which our mums 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.000 were two of the four. We were under a washing 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:48.080 line in my little sharehouse, covered in a doner to 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.840 make it sound proof. Today we're in an awesome studio. 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:55.560 We've got a team around us building a really epic 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.440 media company telling the stories of young Australians for millions 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.279 of people every month. So what's the first lesson? 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:05.600 Okay, so lesson number one, and I don't think we 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.520 could have started this anywhere else, is that trust needs 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.680 to be earned, not expected. 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:11.160 Amen. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:14.200 This is such a big one. I mean it's important 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.600 at any point, but especially in today's media landscape already. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.799 When we started TDA back in twenty seventeen, we suspected 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.639 there was a big trust deficit, and since that time 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:29.359 it's just gotten worse. People are becoming increasingly skeptical, especially 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.919 as we see the rise in social media and influencers 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:35.000 and everything that comes with that about new sources and 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.960 about where they're getting their information from. And so we 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.760 realized pretty early on that we couldn't just expect people 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.080 to trust us just because we said they should, or 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.919 just because we positioned ourselves as a media company, didn't 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.079 mean that they immediately had to trust us. We had 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.120 to earn their trust day by day, podcast by podcast, 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.280 newsletter by newsletter, Instagram by instagram post. 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.360 And I think one thing we can really make sure 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.359 that we do to earn that trust in the place, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.440 but also keep it is own up to our mistakes 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.520 and be transparent when we make them. I mean, the 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.520 two big ones that come to mind would be Taylor Swift, 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.480 just Taylor Swift or giving away tickets to a Tailor 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.400 Swift concert without being allowed to give away tickets to 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:13.320 a Tailor Swift concert. 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.160 Good lesson in always reading the fine. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.680 Print, awesome lesson font gate yeap ya say more. We 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.840 are very famous for choosing a fonch. I found a 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:24.400 graphic design blog a couple of months ago that says 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.800 what the Daily Ods can teach you about how to 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:27.920 stuff up a rebrand. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.680 It didn't go down too well, but we were transparent 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.000 with our audience. We came back, we explained our thinking, 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.720 we went on and obviously, you know there have been 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.800 serious things that have happened too. You know, we are 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.080 doing this for the very first time. We've learned a 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:45.760 lot from our audience about language, about context, about storytelling, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.840 and we're learning every single day. And I think it's 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.520 about taking the audience on that journey and building that 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.520 trust along the way and not expecting it to happen overnight. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.240 And just while we're on the topic of mistakes, I 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.440 would just add that one day a couple of years ago, 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.720 on a weekend, I uploaded a photo of my foot 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:06.120 by accident to our Instagram, left it up there for 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.640 approximately half an hour, and came back to my phone 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:12.760 to hundreds of comments about my foot. And that's on 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.760 making mistakes and owning them. I've told everyone about it. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:17.880 Yeah, well, I would love to know how much you're 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.919 making from those at the moment, it's a really amazing 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.320 line of revenue. Okay, lesson number two. You have to 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.080 meet people where they're at. And I remember when we 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.080 were starting out, a lot of traditional media had this 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.480 attitude of if we build something, people will come to it, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.800 and if they told people on Instagram to go the 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.760 link and bio click and read something else somewhere else, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.960 that that would just happen automatically. But that's not how 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.560 we saw young people behave. It's not how we behaved 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.839 and our friends behaved. And we realized that if we 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.320 wanted to reach young Aussies with news, we had to 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.000 go to the platforms that they were already using and 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:52.919 use them authentically. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.520 Yeah exactly. I mean that's why we started on Instagram. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.920 We knew that's where everyone, or at least our cohort 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.839 was at the time. We were certainly one of the 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.200 first news pages in the country. I'd say probably. 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.560 The first, the first in the country and the first 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:08.200 in the world. 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:10.120 We'll go with the fact. Definitely the first in the 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.560 country to introduce the carousel format of providing news on 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.240 carousels in Instagram. Obviously, now that's everywhere, that's a given 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.160 that's no longer novel, but at the time, this idea 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.640 of using social media, which at that point was about 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.479 you know, avocado toast and a sunset and all of 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.840 those like really typical things, and saying, no, we're going 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.680 to put news here when news doesn't belong. That was 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.479 a really novel idea, and it was this attempt to 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.440 bring news to our audience and meet them where they're 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.720 at and not call them complacent if they didn't come 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:42.080 to us. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.480 And then we quickly learned though that we couldn't just 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.640 build a whole business on that idea. I mean, these 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.240 are still companies that are privately owned. You know you 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.280 are at We had the meta scale last year, the 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.120 med scale last year. We've talked about that in the pod. 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.800 But also the algorithm changes one day to the next, 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.279 and that's where we started developing out some of the 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.440 other channels, like the one that you're listening to right now, 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.599 a podcast. We've got our newsletters now. Newsletters now a 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.080 really huge part of our business. And so then the 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.280 question becomes, how do we meet people where they're at, 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.120 but also build a solid business that isn't at the 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.560 mercy of the tech gods, and for us, that's really 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.240 about making everything kind of fit together, so you shouldn't 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.360 feel like you're being gay ecosystem exactly. You can kind 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.120 of listen to something in the morning, read something in 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.960 the afternoon, have a vote on an Instagram story, all 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.840 of that, and that feels really kind of cohesive. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.039 Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's a really good 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.960 segue into lesson number three and one of my favorites 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.760 and something that you will hear me talking about at 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.760 every opportunity, which is young people really care about the news. 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:41.919 And I think the way that we realize this was 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.680 by talking across from them, not down to them. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:45.800 Explain that for me. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.640 Okay, So what I'm talking about there is what I 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.440 think TDA secret sources, which is that we are young 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.479 people talking to our peers. We know how to speak 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.680 their language, we know what they care about, we know 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.200 what they're talking about in their group WhatsApps, because our 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.200 whole office is made up of these people. And that's 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.320 not to say that you have to have a certain 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.520 lived experience to be a storyteller, but I do think 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.320 that if we look around, so often we have people 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.960 talking down to young people and telling them that they're complacent, 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:19.040 telling them that they don't care about the world, or 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.560 that they're apathetic, when in reality, they just haven't been 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.360 spoken to in their language or on their platforms, you know, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.320 the platforms that we have been conditioned to be present on. 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.880 And I think one thing that's really interesting for me 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:35.880 on this lesson is I'm constantly surprised. But also our 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.800 approach to all of this is affirmed by what podcast 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.760 topics do well with our audience. I mean, a podcast 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.560 topic on housing prices or interest rates will actually do really, 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:46.000 really well. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.040 And you go to of course because it matters to 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:48.560 young people. 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.960 Yeah, but you go to anybody in kind of older 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.800 generations of news businesses and they'll tell you young people don't 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:55.880 care about economics. 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:57.840 Yeah. Well, I mean I think this is at the 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:59.680 heart of it, right, which is that when you look 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.880 across the landscape, traditionally we've seen pop culture dressed up 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:08.160 as news for young people that young people can only consume, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.840 you know, lighter, fluffier topics. And I think we've said 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.200 this on the podcast before, and let the record reflect 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.480 I love reality television as much as the next person, 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.080 but that doesn't mean that I don't love the news 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.880 and that I can't have both, and so I think 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.520 that for us, it's so important to continue to deliver 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.280 that really important hard news so that young people go 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.120 into things like elections being informed. And I mean this 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.640 election coming up, I mean we don't know when it is, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.120 but when it does come, it's going to be the 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.120 very first time that Gen Z and Millennials outnumber Baby 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.680 boomers at the ballot box. And you know, an engage 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.280 youth here has significant outcomes for democracy. And I think 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.880 anyone that underestimates young people does so at their own peril. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.720 The kids are all right, the kids are all right, Sara, 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.560 Let's go to what I think might be your favorite lesson. Yeah, 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.800 good news. News is compulsory. And this is actually something 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.280 that did start eight years ago. We made these bulletins 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:08.840 that went on Instagram stories. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.400 That stories was this really new thing at the time, 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.079 and we were like, wow, I's so ahead of the curve. 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.800 I reckon, it's changed dimensions like three hundred times in 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.160 that years. But we had five Instagram stories that went 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.640 up at eight o'clock every morning, four stories in the 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.280 way to Know, and one good news at the end 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.040 of that bulletin, and we have done a good news 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.800 story every single day since, every single newsletter and every 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:32.240 single Headlines podcast of TDA. And it's a really hard 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:34.840 job to find good news every day, but it's absolutely 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:35.560 worth it. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.199 It is. I mean, there's so much both empirical evidence 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.520 and then at least anecdotal evidence that people turn away 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.559 from the news because it's too negative, because it's too dark, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.400 and so we need to keep people engaged with your news. 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.040 We're not asking people to turn away, but what can 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.280 we do to lighten that load a bit? And so 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.040 good news is the answer here, because if you're reading 0:09:58.040 --> 0:09:59.720 about all the doom and gloom in the world, but 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.439 then you've put on a Saturday good news podcast or 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.160 you read our good newsletter, you are reminded that there 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.840 is more to the world than what meets the eye. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.439 And then what makes headlines. You know, I always say, 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:13.360 if it bleeds, it leads. That's how traditional media has 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.840 always gone because they know those stories do well. But 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.600 that's not how we can continue because we just know 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.520 people are turning away on mass and that's not good 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:24.320 for anyone. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.160 And I think that the balance part of why we 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:31.200 do good news is really important, and equally also highlighting 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.160 stories that might not make it into a news bulletin. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.319 I mean, I hope that we've inspired people to pursue 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.679 degrees in science or engineering because we have highlighted developments 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.440 over the last eight years that wouldn't have made the 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.920 cut if we've just done the kind of if it bleeds, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.079 it leads methodology. I remember somebody said to me, they 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.760 love our good news stuff. They love your newsletter on 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.600 a Sunday because it makes them feel hopeful without feeling naive. 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:56.920 And I love that. 0:10:57.160 --> 0:10:58.760 I mean, that's all we can hope for. Really. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.000 Yeah, all right. Number five consistency is king. 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:03.520 This is your favorite. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:04.079 I love it. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:05.719 I don't know that there's a day you haven't told 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:06.040 me this. 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.960 It's so important just to show up every single day, 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:10.960 and we make sure that we do the news regardless 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.080 if it's a weekend, if it's a public holiday, if 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.520 we're overseas. You know, in the early days, if you 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.320 and I were hungover, we'd get up and do the 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:18.240 I mean, there were some. 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.720 Tough times past ten, so we do that. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.200 I'm just doing my lower backstretches now, but this has 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.600 gotten obviously so much easier. As the team has grown, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.840 it's easier to do it every single day. But it's 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.959 a really important part because one of our favorite sayings 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.880 here is that things might not work in the first 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:35.480 twelve weeks. 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:37.360 I mean, i've it's going to work for the first 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.000 five years of this business exactly. Arguably, if you look back, 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.439 we did the same thing every single day we built habit, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.480 but no one was watching. And those early days are 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.920 the only reason that we have the success we have 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.680 now that we have the trust, now that we know 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.280 how to do what we're doing because we did it consistently, 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.319 day in day out, regardless of being in other jobs, 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.559 regardless of having notions to turn it into a business. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.120 We knew what we had to do and that would 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:03.559 show up. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.679 I think the podcast has been probably the one that's 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:06.880 tested us the most. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:08.960 In this regards shout out to you guys. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.240 I think we've had I mean, let's be honest, we've 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.200 had discussions about not doing the pod because growth in 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.520 those first days, months, and even years was so slow, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.880 and it's really been only the kind of last i'd 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.760 say eighteen months that the podcast has really grown. But 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:25.520 we've been doing it. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:28.160 For four years and overnight success. 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.520 Overnight success favorite thing, but it's really important. And now 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.400 if people have new ideas in the office and they 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.680 bring it to us, we love experimenting. We love testing. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:39.600 You have to commit to it for twelve weeks because 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.120 then you get data and you get to know whether 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.480 it actually does work or not. And it's good for 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:44.080 our character. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.560 Touche character bility. Now let's move on to lessons six. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.000 This is a biggie for us. And that's while opinion sells, 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.360 news is more important than ever Sam in the age 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.680 of hot takes and social media influencers sharing political opinions left, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:01.640 right and center, it is more important than ever. I 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:06.160 believe that we provide balance and nuance in those same spaces. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.280 And I want to be clear, there's absolutely nothing wrong 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.440 with opinion writing. I love consuming opinions, I love reading 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.199 smart takes, and it can be really helpful to signpost 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.920 ideas for people who are developing their own understanding and 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.640 to read other opinions and then form their own. The 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.560 problem that arises, though, is when people are reading opinion 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:29.040 or activism whatever it is on Instagram, for example, and 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.679 they aren't getting the objective facts that underpin those opinions. 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.560 It's kind of all of us working off the same 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.720 base in another way. And if we take the upcoming 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.920 election as an example, you're going to see a lot 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.480 of influencers telling you how to vote, to vote one 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.679 way or the other, how good or bad a policy is, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.800 how good or bad a leader is. If you don't 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.240 have a balanced media diet sitting under that, it's pretty 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.840 hard to make sense of why that criticism is being 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.199 leveled at that person or party. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.000 Yeah, and I mean even taking a step back to 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.199 understand and to have that civics education of how do 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.439 I vote, how does referential voting work? What is minority government? 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.240 All of these sorts of questions. You can't assess whether 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.280 or not minority government's going to be a good or 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.840 bad thing if you don't have that level of knowledge. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.440 And so I think that is why it's so important 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.840 for us to show up every single day and to 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.000 give people that baseline so that they can go out 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.000 and read those opinions and fully understand the context in 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:21.240 which those opinions are formed. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.240 And people have said to us over the years, Sam 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.280 and Zara, have you guys thought about doing opinion ye? 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.920 Have you thought about doing really strong views because that 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.440 will do a lot better. You'll go viral, quicker and 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.480 all of that. I'm so glad we've held out. Yeah, 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.440 I'm so glad that we have stuck to our guns 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.320 on providing that strong base because I think that's the 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:38.680 DNA of TDA. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:39.200 One hundred percent. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.240 Well, that's nice, and I'll put that in the poster. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.680 All right, let's get to number seven. It's a bit 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:46.760 more of a business lesson than a lesson about the news, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.040 but it is one that we remind ourselves every day. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.200 If this was easy, if it was easy to build 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:53.800 a news company, then everyone would be doing it. And 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.320 I think our youthful enthusiasm of you know, how hard 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:57.760 can it be? 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:59.680 Naivity would be what I call it. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.960 Throw some news on a page, it'll grow, they'll make money. 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.560 I distinctly remember telling a room full of advertisers that no, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:07.880 we will never do advertising. 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:09.040 Yeah right, yeah, that's right. 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.080 Enjoy this podcast. 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.920 Okay, that's clearly not true today. But we've built a 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.560 sustainable business on the back of it. You have to 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.560 work around the clock, you have to make smart financial decisions, 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.560 you have to hire the right people, and if you 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.840 take all of those factors of making any business and 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:24.680 realize how hard that is, and then add the news 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.720 on top and all the complexities of news, you've got 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:27.920 a very challenging environment. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.120 Yeah, and I mean, especially in Australia. I feel like 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.440 we've spoken about this time and time again. We've an 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.560 extremely concentrated media market here. It's an extremely hard market 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.479 to break into. We don't have new media often succeeding 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.440 here because it's so concentrated and the ownership is so concentrated, 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.240 and so building in this space is important, but it's 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.480 really hard and if it were easy, Sam, we'd all 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:51.720 be doing it exactly. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.920 And finally, the eighth lesson brought to you by one 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.120 of my favorite moments from Ted Lasso, who stole it 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.760 from somebody else. Be curious, not judgmental. 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:01.480 What does that mean? 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:06.560 So this is about approaching stories, issues and people with 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:10.160 genuine curiosity rather than just these preconceptions about how they're 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.440 going to behave or what they're going to say. And 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.600 we try and do that in every part of the business. 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.160 It's about asking questions to understand ideas further rather than 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.760 just looking for a way to confirm what you already think. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.280 And so whether it's asking the audience what they think 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.680 through you know, putting up a poll to actually understand 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.760 a point of view. We're working on something really exciting 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.760 that that goes a bit deeper into exactly what young 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:32.800 Australians are thinking. 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.840 But excellent, I believe the kids call that easter eggs. 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:38.000 Yes, nice, you can throw that one in there. But 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.360 the whole idea about being curious not judgmental is not 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:43.200 pretending we're experts. Yeah, I mean we are learning alongside 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.360 our audience. We're trying to figure this out. There is 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.280 no such thing as a silly question that would make 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.720 a good title for a book, and I think being 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.720 curious and not judgmental makes for more honest and more 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:53.720 helpful journalism. 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.280 Well, Sam, what a note to end on eight years 0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.560 eight lessons. What a journey it's been. We absolutely could 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.760 not have done it without all of you, our listeners, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:05.960 the people that read us, the people that watch us. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:06.960 We couldn't have done this. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:08.879 Without all of you, and especially on the back of 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:10.840 us talking about some of the challenges that we face 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.160 as a media company. It's a perfect day to give 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.959 us a little birthday present and become a contributor of TDA. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.359 I really need to stress that this is not about 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.879 giving a contribution if you can't afford it. If you 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:22.560 can afford it and you're feeling like you're in a 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.240 position to do so, that's a way to back our work, 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:27.520 and we'll throw a link in the show notes for that. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.400 We are so proud of how accessible TDA is for everybody, 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:31.600 and we want to keep it that way. 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.119 We'll be back again later today with the headlines as usual, 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.360 but until then, have a brilliant day. 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:43.800 My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.840 Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.080 that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.640