1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Does the very thought of meditating make your brain hurt? Well, 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: You're not alone. Even though meditation is scientifically proven to 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: boost emotional wellbeing, slash stress, improve sleep, and enhance memory, 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: so many of us still struggle to actually do it. 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: Myself included. I've said it before on this podcast Meditation, 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: and I just don't seem to click no matter how 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: badly I want to do it. That's why I was 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: genuinely excited to sit down with Ariel Gartens, neuroscientist, psychotherapist, entrepreneur, 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: and absolute trailblazer in the world of brain tech. Ariel 10 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: is the brilliant mind behind Muse, the EEG powered headband 11 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: that helps even the most distracted minds learn to meditate 12 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: and sleep better. Her work has been featured in Forbes, CNN, 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: and The Wall Street Journal, and if anyone can make 14 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: meditation work for the rest of us, it's her. In 15 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: this episode, we explore what to do when you can't 16 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: sit still for even one meditation session, and how meditation 17 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: can finally help you beat procrastination. Plus, Ariel shares her 18 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: simple strategy for balancing big goals, family time, and work 19 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: without burning out. Welcome to How I Work a show 20 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day. I'm 21 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: your host, doctor Amantha Imber. You may or may not 22 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: have heard of news, but if you haven't, I wanted 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: to start with Ariel explaining exactly what it is. 24 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: So MEWS is a brain sensing headbound that helps you 25 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: improve your brain health. It comes with a sweet of 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: experiences that you use to improve your brain health, like meditation, 27 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: sleep and neurofeedback training and also tracking the oxygenation to 28 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: your profrontal cortex. 29 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Something I was so excited to ask you is to 30 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: understand what is your specific routine using MUSE And I 31 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: want to get specific on it. So tell me what 32 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: does a typical day look like? 33 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: Oh that's a fun question, Okay. So mus has evolved 34 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: a lot over the years. We first came out in 35 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, and then at that point it was a 36 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: meditation tool that could track your brain during meditation and 37 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: give you real time feedback to help you meditate. So 38 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 2: that's actually how I learned to meditate in the first place. 39 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: I was somebody who tried meditation, knew it was good 40 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: for me, sucked at doing it because my brain bounced 41 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: all over the place. And it was through the process 42 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: of building news and using it that I finally was 43 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: able to establish my practice. So that's kind of like 44 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: stuck with me. And as mus has evolved into multiple 45 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: forms of different meditators, so there's a heart, brain, breath, body, 46 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 2: I've continued to explore them. For me. My current meditation 47 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 2: practice is waking up in the morning and starting with 48 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: a guided meditation. We have hundreds of guided meditations and 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: I do that super early before the kids come in 50 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: and wake up and jump on my head and all 51 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: those things, all those delightful things which I love. And 52 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: then we have this new feature with the f Year's device, 53 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: which is tracking the prefrontal blood flow and it allows 54 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: you to actually train your prefrontal cortex to use more 55 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: oxygen and engage more strongly. So I've been doing our 56 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 2: Athena session. So Athena is our latest device. We have 57 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: this awesome experience with an owl where you focus on 58 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: it and up regulate the activity of reprefrontal cortex and 59 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: it makes the owl fly faster. So that's what I've 60 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: been doing in the afternoons. And then I'm a super 61 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: good sleeper, so I don't tend to use our go 62 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: to sleep features because I just close my eyes and 63 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: I fall asleep. But in the evening I'll often do 64 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: a meditation, sometimes even with my kids, and it is 65 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: a beautifully lovely day to wind down, beautifully lovely way 66 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: to wind down the day. 67 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: So how long are you meditating for in each of 68 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 1: these sections of your day? If you like? 69 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it varies. In the morning, it really depends 70 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: on how much time I have before the kids wake up, 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 2: So like at seven am, I know the day is 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 2: no longer my own, So it might be five minutes, 73 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: it might be twelve minutes, it might be seventeen minutes. 74 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: That's usually the longest because they're going to jump on 75 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 2: my head pretty soon. In the afternoon, the athena sessions 76 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 2: are actually really short. At the provincial cortex ne our feedback, 77 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: it's just five minutes. And then in the evening, if 78 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 2: I'm doing something with the kids, it'll be five minutes 79 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: because that's all they can handle. And if it's me 80 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: on my own, I might even like dig into a 81 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 2: good fifteen twenty thirty minute meditation session where I can 82 00:04:58,920 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: go nice and deep. 83 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: Someone me. I have always struggled to have any kind 84 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: of a meditation habit, Like, where do you stop? Because 85 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 1: to me, I'm like, man, that's three sessions in a day. 86 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: I can't even manage one. So where would someone like 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: me start? 88 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: Okay, so let me start by saying, you don't have 89 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: to do more than one meditation in a day. You know, 90 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: this is what I do for my business and for 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: my life, and so I'm like super invested in it. 92 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 2: Any average person, if you can get in one meditation 93 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 2: session in the day, you are flying, and you want 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: to try to be consistent with it. So you can 95 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: start with as little as three or four minutes if 96 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 2: you want to just get started. Choose any time in 97 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 2: the day that works for you. It really doesn't matter when. 98 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: Just try to be consistent with it so that you 99 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: can build a routine. So that's why doing it, for example, 100 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 2: every morning or right before you brush your teeth, right 101 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 2: after you brush your teeth, or after your snack break, 102 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: you know, whenever is going to fit for you. So 103 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: the first thing to remember is that meditation is not 104 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 2: about your mind going blank. You're gonna have lots of 105 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: thoughts that come up, and that is a Okay, that's 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: how meditation works. That's how our brains work. So in 107 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: the simplest meditation, you're just going to sit there. You're 108 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 2: going to have a thought that comes up, or a 109 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: feeling that comes up. You're going to notice it, and 110 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: you're going to be like, yep, that happened, and then 111 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 2: you're going to bring your attention back to your breath. 112 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: So you sit there and you focus your attention on 113 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: your breath. You might have another thought that's okay, you 114 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: notice it, and you just bring your attention back to 115 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: your breath. And as you sit there with your attention 116 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: back to your breath, you are training your body in 117 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: multiple ways. You're training your mind to be able to 118 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: observe what's going on, and you're training it to redirect 119 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: and put it onto an object of focus that you 120 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: care about. In this case, it's your breath, which is neutral. 121 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: In the case of work, it might be you know, 122 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 2: the priority that you need to do. It might be 123 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: the task at hand, it might be the meeting that 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 2: you need to remember about that's coming up next. And 125 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 2: as you do it, you train your brain and body 126 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: to learn to be calm and self regulated in the 127 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: face of these funny urges, these funny motions, these funny 128 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: thoughts that happened to us as humans. You need any 129 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: more inspiration as to why you should meditate? A couple things. 130 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: So one study with doctor Eileen Luters looked at people 131 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: as they age. She looked at their brains of meditators 132 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: and non meditators, and people who meditated had brains that, 133 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: on average look seven point five years younger. 134 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: Wow, that's nuts. 135 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: Yes, totally, And muse is used by the Mayo Clinic 136 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: for multiple different conditions. They published a study in twenty 137 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: seventeen with breast cancer pations awaiting surgery and improved their 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: quality of life and decrease their stress during the cancer 139 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: care process. They've published work in multiple different domains, including 140 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: super busy doctors using MEWS in the middle of their 141 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: day at Mayo, improving their cognitive function, improving their sleep, 142 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: and their latest study on long COVID demonstrated that it 143 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: reduced brain fog and improved symptoms in long COVID. So 144 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: meditation's really good for you. And whenever you have that 145 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: like nagging, like I don't know if I should do it, 146 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: just remember all the benefits and that aging brain and 147 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: what it may look like if you meditate. 148 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: Can you tell me more about the athenus session that 149 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: you do in the afternoon and what the purpose of 150 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: that is. 151 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: Okay, So we have a brand new device that's come 152 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: out called Athena and it has both EEG sensors that 153 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: measure the electrical activity of your brain as well as 154 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: sensors frontal near infrared spectroscopy, and that is using optics 155 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: and red and infred light to actually track the amount 156 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: of blood flow to your brain. So in the same 157 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 2: way that a functional MRI is looking at the amount 158 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: of blood flow in various areas of your brain to 159 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: see how it's consuming oxygen and whether it's active during 160 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: an activity. The f NEARS also, instead of using a 161 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: big machine and complicated electromagnetics, FNEARS is using light to 162 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 2: look at the blood flow right at the blood brain 163 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 2: barrier and to see how much oxygen your brain is 164 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: using and how much oxygen your brain is demanding. So 165 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 2: this is a brand new feature that we have in 166 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: this new device, and it actually allows you to track 167 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: the blood flow to your performtal cortex as well as 168 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: train it to upregulate its function to work. More so, 169 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 2: in the same way that you go to the gym 170 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: to work your muscle. It's an activity that works your 171 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: prefrontal cortex to enable it to strengthen its capabilities and 172 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 2: perform more effectively, which is cool because your prefrontal cortex 173 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: is the part of your brain associated with your attention, 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: your inhibition, your planning, and so these kinds of neuro 175 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,839 Speaker 2: feedback sessions have been demonstrated to significantly improve your cognitive 176 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: function and inhibition and attention. 177 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Okay, so it's kind of like you're taking your brain 178 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: to the gym in the afternoon, yes, okay, and how 179 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: long does that gym session last? 180 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: For so the athena sessions are short through just five minutes, 181 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: because it's like it's quite a demanding to to do, 182 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: just like you don't want to do squats for you know, 183 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: more than two minutes. You do your little dose and 184 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 2: it really is effective and it builds over time. 185 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 1: Like I'm imagining your workday, like you're obviously very busy, 186 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: wearing a number of different hats. What do you do 187 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: throughout the day, Like if you can feel your focus 188 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: whining for example. 189 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, the most interesting part of having a good meditation 190 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: practice is not what you're doing during your meditation, but 191 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: what you actually then do throughout the rest of the day. 192 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: So in meditation, what you train your brain to do 193 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 2: is to notice when your mind is wandering, notice the 194 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 2: contents of that mental cogitation, and then be able to 195 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: change your attention to where you want it to be, 196 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: or change your attention onto the kinds of thoughts that 197 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: you want to be thinking. And so throughout the day, 198 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: I'll start to notice if I'm feeling stressed, if something 199 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 2: happens and leaves me with an un pleasant feeling, like 200 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: you get an email that makes you feel uncomfortable or 201 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: makes you upset. In a meditation practice, you learn to 202 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: observe your emotions. And so I've now become pretty a 203 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: depth throughout the day of feeling when something's happening, whether 204 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: that is stress, whether that is unpleasant emotion, and then 205 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: being able to distance myself from it and to breathe 206 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: deeply recognize that you know, that emotion that I felt 207 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: about that email doesn't need to move into my next conversation, 208 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: or if it starts to move into my next conversation 209 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 2: because I'm feeling kind of, you know, crappy about it, 210 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: I can have the self reflection to like to say so, like, hey, 211 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 2: I'm coming in. I just had something hard to happen, 212 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: Give me a minute, and then refocus and reregulate. And 213 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: it's been an incredibly powerful tool to use both when 214 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: I'm feeling emotionally justsregulated and when my attention to starts 215 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 2: to flag. You know, you've been working on something for 216 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: a while and you lose interest in it, or you 217 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 2: notice that you're just checking emails repeatedly, and so I 218 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 2: can catch myself stop and say, hey, what are we 219 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 2: supposed to be doing? Back to task? 220 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: Do you have certain triggers or flags that your brain 221 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: is used to noticing to get you back on track? 222 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: Okay? So one is the uncomfortable emotional feeling that often 223 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: sometimes happens from like a colleagues's interaction, where I might 224 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 2: feel like I've been left out of something, or you 225 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: get an email about someone being mad because you didn't 226 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: do something properly or something didn't work properly. And then 227 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: what I do is I very quickly like kind of 228 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: compartmentalize it and understand what that was. I'm actually like, 229 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 2: this is what triggered me, And then I call myself, 230 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: take a deep breath, you know, reregulate and say Okay, 231 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 2: let's move to the solution. So how do we solve this? 232 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: At take perspective, I, you know, try to understand how 233 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: the other person was feeling or thinking. I then recognize 234 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: that whatever I'm thinking they're thinking probably wasn't correct to 235 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: begin with. But at least, you know, gets me outside 236 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: of myself and gives me an insight into what might 237 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: be going on. And then I try to work towards 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: solution and propose solution. 239 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: How about when you're feeling yourself procrastinating or checking email 240 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: more often than you need to, or scrolling on the 241 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,719 Speaker 1: socials again, like, do you have methods or triggers that 242 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: you use when you feel yourself straying from the task 243 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: at hand. 244 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 2: Email checking is a big one for me. When I 245 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: get off task, I just go back to checking the 246 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: top of my email, and then I'm only dealing with 247 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: the things that are on the top of my email 248 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 2: and not the actual things I need to work on. 249 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: And so I break the habit by as soon as 250 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: I notice that I'm in like mindless email mode, It's like, stop, 251 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: what are you supposed to be doing? I go to 252 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: the list of items that I have that I actually 253 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 2: need to accomplish, and then I dig into the items 254 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: that I have to accomplish, or I leave open emails 255 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: that I know I need to respond to, and I 256 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: go back to those emails. So it's the action. What 257 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: I know is my bad habit. Me noticing my bad 258 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 2: have a state is then the trigger for the change. 259 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: And you need to know in advance what it is 260 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: that you're going to switch to. So I recommend, you know, 261 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 2: having a list of the important things you need to do, 262 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: or having you a list of your alternates to that 263 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: stupid Scully task, so that you don't even have to 264 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 2: think about how you get out of it. You're just like, oh, 265 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: doing the stupid task. Come to the alternate. 266 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your list and what that looks like, 267 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: how you film it, where it sets. Tell me about that. 268 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it sits in a notes document. I just 269 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: use the notes on my mac os. I've tried various 270 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: task and productivity software notes, but I don't find them 271 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: any more effective than just using the notes. And so 272 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: I have a to do list. It tends to be 273 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: like a running to do list for the week, because 274 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: tasks carry over from day to day, and then when 275 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: I get to the end of the week, or unfortunately, 276 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: when I have an evening work session because I've gone 277 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 2: over what I need to do in a day and 278 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: I have to catch up at night. Then you know, 279 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: is eating into the meditation time. Meditation does not happen 280 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 2: at night when I have night work sessions. Nobody's perfect. 281 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: I just have to balance your time. Then I use 282 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: that night session to get the things off my list. 283 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm curious about your language there night work session. It 284 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: sounds like you're clocking on for night shift, Like is 285 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: that something that you're super conscious about, Like if you 286 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: are having to work at night, I don't know, compartmentalizing 287 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: that in some way? What does that look like? 288 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: So when I was younger and didn't have children, the 289 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: night was the most productive time for me, and I 290 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: would just relish working from kind of nine pm till 291 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 2: midnight or one am, because that's when I was my 292 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: most creative. That was like pure flow. It was amazing. 293 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: And then you have a life in kids and obligations 294 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: and you can no longer work till one in the 295 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: morning without being a miserable person. And I really value 296 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: my sleep, so you know, I go to bed at eleven, 297 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 2: wake up at seven, go to bed at ten thirty, 298 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: wake up at six thirty. That's the way it is. 299 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: I get eight hours. It's beautiful and clean and so 300 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: so if I'm doing a night work session, that means 301 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: I'm saying good night to the kids at eight thirty, 302 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: and instead of doing a meditation or cleaning the kitchen 303 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: or whatever else I might want to be doing with 304 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: that free time, I'm on my computer chugging through as 305 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: much work as I can until lights out at ten thirty. 306 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 2: And because I'm a good sleeper, I can kind of 307 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: work till ten thirty. It becomes a little harder to 308 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 2: fall asleep because I've had You know that I'm wound 309 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: up with work and I have the light in my eyes, 310 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 2: so it takes me like an extra four or five minutes, 311 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: five minutes to fall asleep. This is not normal. Most 312 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 2: people with native lights in their eyes don't fall asleep 313 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: so easily. So you know, I can manage it. If 314 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 2: I was not a good sleeper, I would want to 315 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 2: stop that much earlier to make sure that I got 316 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: a good night sleep. 317 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: We will be back soon with Ario, and when we return, 318 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: we'll discuss her simple strategy for balancing big goals family, 319 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: time and work, and how she overcomes the fact that 320 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: she is actually very bad at prioritizing. If you're looking 321 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: for more tips to improve the way you work can live. 322 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: I write a short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've 323 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: discovered that have helped me personally. You can sign up 324 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: for that at Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com. 325 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: How do you go about setting boundaries for yourself, particularly 326 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: from the transition from not being a mother to being 327 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: a mother where you know it's like your time and 328 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: the decisions that you have around how you use your time, 329 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: particularly like with just the demanding role that you have, 330 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: How do you set boundaries and rules for yourself? 331 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 2: It's really hard, And you know, initially in the transition 332 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: from being a you know, soul body that could do 333 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: whatever I wanted with my time to then being in 334 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 2: a marriage where you know your partner needs things from 335 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: you and being a workaholic is not really appealing in 336 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: the really, you know, that's the first transition. When it 337 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 2: was just me. You know, you can dive into work 338 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: as much as you want, and if you're passionate about 339 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 2: what you do, you can just do that. For many many, 340 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: many hours straight, and you can no longer do that 341 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 2: once the obligations of life come in and I have 342 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: two children, and it becomes very challenging to make the 343 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 2: right boundaries having the proper support. In my case, I 344 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: have an afternote school nanny that picks up the kids 345 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: at three thirty till five, so I get that extra time. 346 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: There are times when I didn't and had to be like, 347 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: three thirty is it? And so we're done with work. 348 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: The workday ends early, but it means that every single 349 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 2: night I'm making up that extra hour and a half 350 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: from eight thirty to ten. It also means that I 351 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: don't get everything done in my workday that I want to, 352 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: and so I have to let go of some items 353 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: and understand how to prioritize and prioritization in terms of 354 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 2: which client is the most you know, is the highest priority, 355 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 2: which task is the highest priority, knowing some of them 356 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: just might not get done, which when you're dealing with 357 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: client relationships is really really difficult choices to make. And 358 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 2: you know, in your own work you can say, hey, 359 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 2: I didn't get this done. It's fine, you know it's 360 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: only good enough. It's fine, but you can't let a 361 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: client down, and so those are the times when it 362 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 2: becomes much harder to set boundaries and I end up 363 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 2: working many, many more hours than I probably should. 364 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: Can you tell me about how you approach prioritization. I 365 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: find that it is such a hard thing for so 366 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: many leaders, and I'd love to know how do you 367 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: think about it? You know, I guess from like a 368 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: macro view, like you know, the year or the quarter, 369 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: and then more of a micro view in terms of today. 370 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: How do I actually distinguish between the thing that's going 371 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: to shift the dial and the thing that maybe I 372 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: feel like I need to do but it's going to 373 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: make me work night shift. 374 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 2: That's a tough question. So as an organization, we actually 375 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 2: set out an annual plan and we start that process 376 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: in October. We do our annual planning, We publish what 377 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 2: we're going to do for the year, and then we 378 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: try to keep ourselves to that. And there's obviously going 379 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 2: to be a lot of shifts that happen, and part 380 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: of it is response to market demand or response to 381 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 2: you know, buyer is the most important thing that we 382 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 2: have to deal with. I am actually very bad at 383 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: prioritization because I want to do everything, and so I 384 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 2: will often push myself to do more rather than drop 385 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 2: something that I think is important, which can then lead 386 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 2: to a lot of difficulty prioritizing family, the other things 387 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: in your life. And so often that prioritization goes in 388 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: two places. One is who is the pain customer? Who 389 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 2: is most likely to be the pain customer, and so 390 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 2: we need to serve them. And two is how is 391 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: this going to do the most good, the most good 392 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: for the organization, the most good for myself, the most 393 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: good for my family, the most good for the customer, 394 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: the person using the device. And so it is a 395 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 2: question of you know, what's going to be financially most 396 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: rewarding because it's going to allow the sustenance of the business, 397 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: and what is also going to achieve the highest good 398 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: for these groups of stakeholders, And often those groups of 399 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: stakeholders are in conflict with one another. You know, what's 400 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: the most good for my family is not the same 401 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 2: as what's the most good for my company. Obviously they 402 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 2: both want my time, and so that's when it has 403 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: to really be a value based prioritization. 404 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: It sounds like really tough decisions to make. How have 405 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: you found yourself making them, you know, day to day 406 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: or in the moment, because I'm imagining that this is 407 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: probably a daily reality for you in terms of making 408 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: those choices around who gets your time. 409 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: So I mean, sometimes you don't even make that decision. 410 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: The decision is made for you. The kid comes in 411 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 2: in the middle of your zoom meeting and she really 412 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 2: wants breastfeed, and like, sorry, it's just what's going to 413 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 2: be happening, Sorry, zoom meeting. You know, sometimes you just can't. 414 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: The nanny calls them sick and so sorry, meetings have 415 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: to cancel and family gets your time. Sometimes it almost 416 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: feels relieving when you don't have to make the decision 417 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 2: that's made for you. Sometimes you really do get the 418 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: luxury of making your own decisions. And it's a very 419 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 2: good question how that decision is really made day to day. 420 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: You know, I could give you an answer like, oh, 421 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: I do it intuitively, but I think really what that 422 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: means is I try to do the best I can, 423 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: and then stuff is just going to fall into line 424 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 2: and whatever gets done gets done. You know, we're really 425 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 2: imperfect when it comes to managing most aspects of our humanity. 426 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 2: Stuff just happens. Time goes on, People make choices around you, 427 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 2: They impact you. You react in some way, and we 428 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 2: try to put a little bit of guidance towards what 429 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: we hope will happen along the way. 430 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: I appreciate your honesty. It is sorry hot, you know, 431 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: and I think particularly is a busy founder. It's so 432 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: easy to feel torn between the business and clients and 433 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: then what your family needs. I definitely experience that, you know, 434 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,439 Speaker 1: many many times, and I still don't quite know how 435 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: to navigate it. I think something I do reflect on, 436 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: and I think it helps me procrastinate less, is that 437 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: the time that I've got, and typically my work time 438 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: is it's in front of a computer, or it's in 439 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: front of clients or with my team, and I think 440 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: about how do I really make those hours count, particularly 441 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: when if I don't make that count, there's going to 442 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: be some sort of a trade off that I'm going 443 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: to have to make later in the day when you know, 444 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: I'm with my daughter. I'm curious, like if you can 445 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: relate to that, or if you've kind of got similar 446 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: mental processes or awareness of you know, particularly when your 447 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: mind is drifting or you're you know, processing emails in 448 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: a way that's not the most productive. What does that 449 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: look like for you? 450 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 2: So I absolutely resonate with this, and even as you 451 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: say it, I feel this sense of pressure, and I 452 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: think what you have to do is recognize that it's 453 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 2: okay to have limitation, and it's okay to only do 454 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 2: so much in a day, and it's okay to only 455 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 2: be able to accomplish so much in a work session, 456 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: and then to make your choices accordingly. You know, I 457 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 2: used to want to say yes to everything because everything 458 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: brought such amazing opportunity, and now I unfortunately have to 459 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 2: say yes to a lot less things, but I continue 460 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 2: to find that those bring richness an opportunity. Yeah, I'm 461 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 2: not good at saying no to things, and so I 462 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 2: think for me, it's more about what gets my attention 463 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 2: to say yes to it, and honestly, some of it 464 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: is just luck. 465 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: I would love to know you've hosted the podcast Untangled 466 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: for I think you're like over five hundred episodes in 467 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: or something like that, and you've had so many amazing guests. 468 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: Like the risk of asking a very cliched question, I 469 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: would love to know what are some of the strategies 470 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: that you've heard from guests that you have applied and 471 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: that have stuck with you and improved your life in 472 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: some way. 473 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 2: One and this is this is a surprise question that 474 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 2: I'm like thinking about it in real time. So one 475 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 2: was bj Fog, so talking about habits. Bj Fog is 476 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: a habit forming specialist. He has a book called Tiny 477 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 2: Habits and Whole Methodology. He recommends that we change our 478 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: habits bit by bit in tiny steps, and you celebrate 479 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: each tiny step. The most obvious examples if you want 480 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 2: to go to the gym. Going to the gym can 481 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 2: feel really overwhelming, so you put on your shoes and 482 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: you know, once you got your gym shoes on, you 483 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 2: celebrate it. And for most people it can feel kind 484 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: of cheesy to celebrate your winds, but there's a neural 485 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 2: reason to do that. So you know, you do something, 486 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 2: you establish the habit, and you want to go, yes, 487 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: you know I did that. That's great because then you 488 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: get a flood of dopamine, oxytose and serotonin that's actually 489 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 2: going to encourage the way that your neurons wire together 490 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 2: and help you learn fast. Another one is David Eagleman. So, 491 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 2: David Egleman is a neuroscientist. He's a sensory perception neuroscientist, 492 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 2: and he talks a lot about creativity. And one of 493 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: the things that I always remember from him is teaching 494 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 2: you how to rewire your brain and to make new 495 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: neural connections and to do everything with the left hand. 496 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 2: So brush your teeth with your left hand, open the 497 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: door with your left hand, and as you do these things, 498 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 2: you train your brain to think and act in new ways. 499 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: That is very cool. I'm going to try that left 500 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: handed thing. 501 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 2: It's a funny one, but it is kind of fitting 502 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: into the scheme of how do we optimize ourself? You know, 503 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 2: how do we become our best selves? The practical thing 504 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: is you're moving your left hand. But the extension to 505 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: that is what are the things that I'm not good 506 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 2: at that I should start doing. They might be uncomfortable, 507 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: they might feel weird, but when I do them as 508 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 2: a practical thing to do regularly, I increase that skill. So, 509 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: you know, exercise is one of those things for me, 510 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 2: exercising a new muscle. You may not want to do it. 511 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 2: It might feel awkward, it might feel terrible, but it's 512 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: like I do it because I know it's strengthening that 513 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: part of my body. If I can't remember a word, 514 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 2: instead of like braiding myself for it and thinking about 515 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: perimenopause or aging or whatever it is, I stop and 516 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 2: I try to remember the fact, because forcing yourself to 517 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: do something that you're not good at trains you to 518 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: just do it better each and every time. 519 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: And in terms of the future of wearables and particularly 520 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: ones that have brain sensing capabilities, what does that look 521 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: like over the next three to five years. 522 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 2: So I think we're going to see more and more 523 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: brain sensing devices on the market. We're already seeing these 524 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: things is they get integrated into headphones and into kind 525 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 2: of aspects of our daily life. I think there's more 526 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: and more use cases for the use of EEG to 527 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: help you focus at work, to help you manage your sleep, 528 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 2: and you know, we're seeing more and more devices coming 529 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: out with more and more functionality. So I think the 530 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 2: next three to five years are going to really be 531 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 2: an inflection point. Whereas with the fitbit, for example, you know, 532 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: back in twenty ten, very few people had a tracker, 533 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: and now they're everywhere. We're at the beginning of that 534 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: inflection in brain sensing devices. 535 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: Amazing Ariel. It has been so great to talk to 536 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: you learn about how you use the muse that's now 537 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: going to impact how I use mine. Thank you so 538 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: much for your time today. 539 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: Oh it's my pleasure. 540 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: I hope you love this chat with Ariel. And if 541 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: you are king to get your hands on a Muse, 542 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: Ariel has kindly given listeners of the show a fifteen 543 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: percent discount off MEWS. Just go to choose Muse MusB 544 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: dot com, forward slash how I Work and enter the 545 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: code how I Work at checkout, and those details are 546 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: also in the show notes. If you like today's show, 547 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: make sure you hit follow on your podcast app to 548 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: be alerted when new episodes drop. How I Work was 549 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: recorded on the traditional land of the Warringery people, part 550 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: of the Cooler Nation.