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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the twenty fourth of September.

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Speaker 2: I'm Emma, I'm Nandini.

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Speaker 1: Nandini is joining us on the pod today to talk

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Speaker 1: about legal action that's been launched by the A Triple

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Speaker 1: C against Coals and Woolworth's this week.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, the consumer watchdog, the A Triple C dropped a

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Speaker 2: bit of a bombshell. It's taking Coals and Woolworths to

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Speaker 2: the federal court in two separate cases. It's accused the

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Speaker 2: supermarket giants of unlawfully using discount pricing claims to mislead consumers.

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Speaker 2: We'll take you through the allegations against Coals and Woolworths,

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Speaker 2: how the retailers have responded, and what this could mean

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Speaker 2: for consumers in today's deep dive. But first, Emma, what's

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Speaker 2: making headlines.

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Speaker 1: The federal government will target adolescent boys through a new

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Speaker 1: early intervention program to end gender based violence. The initiative,

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Speaker 1: expected to launch from early next year, will focus on

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Speaker 1: boosting support services for high risk twelve to eighteen year

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Speaker 1: olds who've experienced and are using or at risk of

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Speaker 1: using family, domestic or sexual violence. Participants of the trial

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Speaker 1: program will be offered trauma informed and culturally safe services,

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Speaker 1: including one on one counseling. Minister for Social Services Amanda

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Speaker 1: Rishworth said twelve sites across metropolitan, regional and remote locations

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Speaker 1: have been chosen to deliver the trial, with more sites

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Speaker 1: expected to receive funding as part of the program next year.

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Speaker 1: Rishworth said the measures will provide support for young men

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Speaker 1: to recover and heal from their experiences of violence and

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Speaker 1: quote stop the risk of harm escalating and continuing into

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Speaker 1: their adult relationships.

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Speaker 2: A member of the Australian Federal Police Force has faced

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Speaker 2: court in the Act over alleged corrupt conduct. A statement

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Speaker 2: from the AFP confirmed an employee is facing several charges

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Speaker 2: including perverting the course of justice and making a false accusation,

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Speaker 2: as well as traffic related offenses and property theft. The

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Speaker 2: staffer has been suspended from duty, but further details about

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Speaker 2: the court proceedings and charges are yet to be released.

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Speaker 2: The AFP said it's committed to transparency.

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Speaker 1: World leaders have gathered at the United Nations in New

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Speaker 1: York City for high level meetings and this week's UN

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Speaker 1: Summit of the Future. Yesterday, leaders agreed to a Pact

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Speaker 1: for the Future, described as quote the most wide ranging

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Speaker 1: international agreement in many years. The Pact covers a broad

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Speaker 1: range of issues including peace and security, climate, tech, and

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Speaker 1: human rights. Today leaders will also meet for the annual

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Speaker 1: General Assembly debate. The theme Leaving No One Behind will

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Speaker 1: see discussions on issues like banning nuclear weapons, assisting regions

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Speaker 1: threatened by rising sea levels, and safeguarding the global community

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Speaker 1: from antibiotic resistance. Talks are expected to continue over the coming.

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Speaker 2: Days and today's good news. California has passed a law

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Speaker 2: to ban plastic bags at grocery stores around the state.

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Speaker 2: Governor Gavin Newsom signed the bill this week to ban thin,

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Speaker 2: single use plastic bags as well as thicker, multi use

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Speaker 2: plastic bags. The ban will be implemented across the state

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Speaker 2: by twenty twenty six. One of the senators who voted

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Speaker 2: in favor of the band told lawmakers that the amount

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Speaker 2: of plastic bags discarded per person increased from three point

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Speaker 2: six kilograms in two thousand and four to five kilograms

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. Newsom signed into law the first

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Speaker 2: plastic ban in the US when he was mayor of

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Speaker 2: San Francisco in two thousand and seven.

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Speaker 1: We've been hearing about supermarkets in the news cycle for

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Speaker 1: what seems like forever if I'm honest, from price gouging

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Speaker 1: claims to more inquiries than I can count, including one

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Speaker 1: led by the A Triple C. Now that's the Australian

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Speaker 1: Competition and Consumer Commission. But we're talking about legal action

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Speaker 1: in the Federal Court this week. This is a new

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Speaker 1: twist and turn in the ever evolving story about Australia's

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Speaker 1: supermarket industry. Now, before we get stuck in, I thought

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Speaker 1: it'd be worth clarifying what the A Triple C actually is.

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Speaker 1: It's a watchdog. Its job is not to monitor or

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Speaker 1: regulate the prices of groceries, but rather represent the consumer's

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Speaker 1: best interests look out for the rights of Australian customers. So,

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Speaker 1: to avoid any confusion, this week's legal action is separate

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Speaker 1: from the ongoing inquiries. But nandini what is at the

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Speaker 1: center of this court case against Coles and Woolies.

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Speaker 2: So on Monday we found out that the A Triple

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Speaker 2: C is suing Coals and Woolworths for misleading consumers. It

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Speaker 2: claims both the retailers used deceptive and unlawful price tactics

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Speaker 2: to make hundreds of products look as though they were

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Speaker 2: on sale when in reality the price either hasn't changed

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Speaker 2: or actually went up.

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Speaker 1: So before we get into the specifics of the legal proceedings,

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Speaker 1: let's zoom out a bit and look at Coals and

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Speaker 1: Willworths more broadly. What do we need to know about

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Speaker 1: their dominance, particularly in the context of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: So both the supermarkets, Coals and Willies dominate about two

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Speaker 2: thirds of the supermarket sector in Australia. In the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three twenty twenty four financial year, so the one

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Speaker 2: that just passed. Coals reported a net profit of one

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Speaker 2: point one billion dollars, that's a two percent increase from

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Speaker 2: the previous year, and Willwarts reported a one point seven

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Speaker 2: billion dollar profit for the same period. That's actually down

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Speaker 2: zero point six percent from the year before, but still.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, over a billion dollars each. This market control, the

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Speaker 1: dominance that Coals and Woolies have is sort of at

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Speaker 1: the center of all of the ongoing inquiries and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the attention into supermarkets and anti competitive behavior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that report is expected to be handed down

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Speaker 2: in February next year. So launching these lawsuits comes at

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Speaker 2: quite a tense time for the supermarket industry where they're

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Speaker 2: facing a lot of public scrutiny for the handling of discounts,

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Speaker 2: promotions and prices.

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Speaker 1: So Coles and Woolies in this latest kind of action

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Speaker 1: or these federal court cases, they're facing separate lawsuits. In fact,

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Speaker 1: the a triople C specified that this legal action isn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily directly tied to anti competitive behavior, but it has

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Speaker 1: been argued that pricing unfairly for price gouging is in

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Speaker 1: and of itself unfair to customers. We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: individual retailers and how they've allegedly deceived customers through those

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Speaker 1: pricing tactics. There is a common thread, even though they're

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Speaker 1: two separate cases, and that's about price spiking and giving

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Speaker 1: products the appearance of being on special even if they aren't.

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Speaker 1: So Nandini, what is price spiking? How does it work? So?

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Speaker 2: Price spiking is when products become more expensive for a

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Speaker 2: brief period of time before they're reduced to a price

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Speaker 2: that is more expensive or the same as before. You know,

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Speaker 2: when you go to the supermarket and you see the bright,

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Speaker 2: colorful price tag. It might say price is dropped, it

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Speaker 2: might say down down. Depending where you go, it draws

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Speaker 2: your attention to something like butter, for example, and it

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Speaker 2: might say was four dollars now three dollars.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So when you go to the supermarket, especially really

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Speaker 1: generic product like butter, you kind of might quickly scan

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Speaker 1: the whole selection. Something might stand out to you because

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Speaker 1: it's got a big, colorful docket and you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: well I'm saving a dollar on that, so I'll grab

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it makes you think that you're getting a discount,

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Speaker 2: as it should. So let's look at Willi's first. The

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Speaker 2: AH Triple C analyze the prices of hundreds of grocery

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Speaker 2: items available Woolies between September twenty twenty one and May

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, so we're looking at a twenty month

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Speaker 2: period here. The AH Triple C is alleging that Woolies

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Speaker 2: was using misleading discount pricing claims on over two hundred

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Speaker 2: and sixty products. This included a range of staple items

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Speaker 2: like we was saying butter, but also cereal, pet food, coffee,

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Speaker 2: dishwashing liquid, and sanitary products.

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Speaker 1: So I think I know what you mean. About this

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Speaker 1: concept of price spiking, But did the A Triple C

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Speaker 1: give us any examples of real world evidence against this

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Speaker 1: going on at Woolies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll look at Willi's first. The AH Triple

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Speaker 2: C did give an example of Oreo prices love a

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Speaker 2: good Oreo dunke in twist, So they tracked the cost

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Speaker 2: of an average pack of original oreos at Woolli's for

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Speaker 2: around seven hundred days between twenty twenty and twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: so roughly two year period. A standard pack of oreos

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Speaker 2: was three dollars fifty. Sounds reasonable. Then we see this

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Speaker 2: jump to five dollars a pack in November twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: That lasts for twenty two days under a month just

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Speaker 2: before Woolies goes to drop the cost of oros to

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Speaker 2: four dollars fifty.

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Speaker 1: So oreos at Woollies we're talking three dollars fifty for

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Speaker 1: about two years, then the price jumps to five. Then

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Speaker 1: after twenty something days it goes to four dollars fifty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a dollar higher than the original price.

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Speaker 2: But the short term increase there made it seem like

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Speaker 2: we were getting a discount as consumer.

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Speaker 1: I get it, I get it.

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Speaker 2: At least that's what the RIPAC is alledging here.

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Speaker 1: I see, okay, so what about coals?

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Speaker 2: Pretty similar situation there. The ATRIBAC also analyzed the prices

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Speaker 2: of hundreds of coals products from February twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: to May twenty twenty three, So now we're looking at

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Speaker 2: a fifteen month period compared to twenty months for wollies.

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Speaker 2: The Consumer Watchdog has alledged that coals used misleading prices

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Speaker 2: across two hundred and forty five products, including band aids, shapes,

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Speaker 2: love shapes, butter again, throat lozenges, and paper towels.

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Speaker 1: So in both cases a really broad range of everyday

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Speaker 1: kind of supermarket staple items. You've got about two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty instances. The A Triple C ledgers at each

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Speaker 1: supermarket of this price spiking. Do we have an example

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Speaker 1: for coals like the Oreo's example.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So for coals, the A Triple C has looked

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Speaker 2: at honey and lemon strap sels, which was sold for

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Speaker 2: five dollars fifty for around two years. In October twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two, those prices rose to seven dollars a pack,

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Speaker 2: and a month later strap seles were labeled with the

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Speaker 2: Downtown tag at a price of six dollars a pack.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so five point fifty to seven bucks to six bucks,

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Speaker 1: so we end up fifty cents higher than the stripsls

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Speaker 1: were originally sold at a month earlier. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this example of strapsuls and the example of Oreos

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Speaker 2: is what the A triple C is using to accuse

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Speaker 2: will Ease for using its prices dropped and Coals for

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Speaker 2: using its down down labels to unlawfully mislead consumers. Chairperson

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Speaker 2: for the HFC, Gina Cascottlieb, addressed a press conference yesterday

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Speaker 2: and here's a grab of what she had to say.

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Speaker 3: The price discounts as promoted were misleading because the discount

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Speaker 3: was illusory. In times of cost of living pressures, it

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Speaker 3: is critical that all pricing claims and price discount claims

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Speaker 3: are accurate. This is serious conduct that is a great

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Speaker 3: concern to us that affected many consumers with millions of

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Speaker 3: products sold subject to this practice.

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Speaker 2: She also said that in many cases Coals and Woolli's

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Speaker 2: quote implemented the temporary price spike for the purpose of

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Speaker 2: establishing a higher WIZ price.

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Speaker 1: So, just to recap the A triable C, here are

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Speaker 1: alleging that these price increases followed by decreases are calculated

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Speaker 1: ways for the supermarket to in the long term, make

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Speaker 1: something cost more, make it more expensive, but make a

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Speaker 1: consumer believe that they're getting a good deal. So there's

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Speaker 1: kind of two pillars to that. It's about increasing prices

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Speaker 1: but also psychologically kind of messing with the consumer in

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Speaker 1: terms of what the allegations are arguing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love a good bargain. If something

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Speaker 2: has a price drop tag, I'm going to buy.

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Speaker 1: It can be powerful. So Coals and Woolies are now

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Speaker 1: facing these federal court proceedings for allegedly breaching consumer law

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Speaker 1: because the A Triple C says this behavior is illegal.

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Speaker 1: What kind of penalties is it seeking.

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Speaker 2: So cat scottlib didn't specify a number, but she did

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Speaker 2: say that the A Triple C are after quote significant

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Speaker 2: cost penalties. Another interesting penalty is a community service order,

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Speaker 2: which really caught my eye. It would basically require Coals

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Speaker 2: and Woolworths to fund a registered charity that provides meals

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Speaker 2: or food to people in need, which is a pretty

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Speaker 2: relevant cause.

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Speaker 1: In this guy is really interesting because I suppose you know,

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Speaker 1: the A Triple C being a government agency. Huge financial

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Speaker 1: penalties are going to hit those supermarkets, but they make

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Speaker 1: billion dollar profits, so you know, kind of thinking of

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Speaker 1: thinking outside the box of ways that they can be

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Speaker 1: held to account and actually do good for the community.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, has either supermarket responded to these proceedings?

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Speaker 1: What have Coals and Woolies said?

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Speaker 2: So they've both issued a statement. We'll start with Woolies.

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Speaker 2: They said that they will quote carefully review the claims

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Speaker 2: made by the A Triple C, and their CEO, Amanda

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Speaker 2: Bardwell said, quote, we remain committed to offering many ways

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Speaker 2: for customers to save at the checkout. Meanwhile, Coals have

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Speaker 2: made it pretty clear that it quote intends to defend

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Speaker 2: the proceedings. Coles said. The A Triple C's allegations quote

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Speaker 2: relate to a period of significant cost inflation in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two to twenty twenty three. The supermarket said it

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Speaker 2: faced cost price increases from supplies at the time and

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Speaker 2: that basically required them arguably to increase the prices of

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Speaker 2: their products on their shelves.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so to recap everything we've learned so far, the

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Speaker 1: A Triple C says Coals and Woolies increased prices for

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Speaker 1: a short period of time then dropped them to make

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Speaker 1: it seem like products were reduced or discounted, and that

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Speaker 1: that is in breach of consumer law. Now, as we've mentioned,

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Speaker 1: this does come amid a number of inquiries. But to

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Speaker 1: add a little bit more fuel to the supermarket fire,

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Speaker 1: there was another development in this ongoing supermarket saga yesterday

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Speaker 1: and I'm talking about a code of conduct. We got

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Speaker 1: an update on that, coinciding with the a triple C announcement.

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Speaker 1: What is the news there.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, a big start to the week for the

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Speaker 2: supermarket sector. In April, there was a formal review for

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Speaker 2: supermarkets and basically that review recommended a mandatory food and

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Speaker 2: Grocery Code of Conduct. These are industry regulations that could

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Speaker 2: lead to multimillion dollar penalties for serious breaches. Woolworth said

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Speaker 2: it's supported this mandatory code and Cole said it was

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Speaker 2: considering the report findings but that they were quote committed

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Speaker 2: to supporting a healthy and sustainable grocery sector. Then over

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Speaker 2: in June, the government said it was committed to implementing

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Speaker 2: the code. And now after a few months we've heard

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Speaker 2: from the Prime Minister that the government will introduce a

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Speaker 2: draft code to Parliament by the end of the year, So.

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Speaker 1: A draft mandatory code for the grocery sector. It is

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Speaker 1: worth mentioning here that there is a voluntary code that's

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Speaker 1: been in place, but the Prime Minister has said, you

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Speaker 1: know it clearly doesn't go far enough. We need to intervene.

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Speaker 1: More needs to be done. What will these reforms mean

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Speaker 1: for the supermarkets in practical terms?

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Speaker 2: So here's what the government has said it will look

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Speaker 2: to legislate. Supermarkets could face one of three finds for

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Speaker 2: major breaches of the revamped mandatory code. That will be

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Speaker 2: whichever is the largest amount of either of the following.

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Speaker 2: We have ten million dollars, three times the value of

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Speaker 2: any benefit gained from a breach, or ten percent of

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Speaker 2: sales in the year before the breach. So out of

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Speaker 2: those three options, which one has the highest amount.

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Speaker 1: And so in the case of supermarket retailers who have

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Speaker 1: billion dollar profits and sales margins, those fines could be

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Speaker 1: into the millions or even billions of dollars. Yeah, major,

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Speaker 1: So some pretty significant penalties on the table there. But

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Speaker 1: back to the Federal Court proceedings against Coals and Woolworths.

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Speaker 1: Did Anthony Albanzi comment on that so Prime.

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Speaker 2: Minister Albanezi said he welcomed the AH Triple C's quote

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Speaker 2: standing with the supermarket shoppers and he called the allegations

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Speaker 2: against Coals and Woolworth's serious and said if they're true,

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Speaker 2: it would be completely unacceptable. He said, quote advertised discounts

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Speaker 2: need to be genuine. Specials need to be real because

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Speaker 2: household budgets are.

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Speaker 1: Type they go. Some strong words from the PM and

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Speaker 1: a lot going on in the supermarket space. As we've

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Speaker 1: learned over the last couple of years, it's certainly not

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Speaker 1: an issue that's going away. NANDINNI thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for taking us through that one today, so helpful. Thank

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Speaker 1: you And if you enjoyed today's episode, if you learned

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Speaker 1: something new, why not send it on to a friend.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe or follow wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: The Daily Oas or if you're watching over on our

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel. We'll be back with another episode tomorrow, but

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Speaker 1: until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: bungelung Kalkotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 2: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our

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Speaker 1: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

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Speaker 1: and present.