1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: This is outspoken. The podcast is not afraid to say 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are Amy, Kate and 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: Sophie Torba. We're identical triplets, but we often don't have 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: identical opinions, so sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: all things reality TV, influencers, entertainment, and issues facing women. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 2: That is so fetch Thank you Kate and Sophie. 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: I must say I often pay you guys out for 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: being overly influenced by social media trends, and I'm surprised 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:39,239 Speaker 1: to see that you guys haven't yet adopted the curtain bangs. Well, No, 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: I definitely won't be adopting that. I think it looks 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: amazing on some people, but I feel like I'm still 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: trying to grow my fringe out that I had when 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I was twelve years old. That's how slow my hair grows. 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: So no, I will not be jumping into any fringe trends. 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: I feel like it's just in the past two weeks 16 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: that I've seen everyone getting them, and also the layered look, 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: which I feel like was very two thousands, because as 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: you say, my hair has really struggled with that layers 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: I have. I mean a lot of the layers were 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: caused by straightening, so they weren't actually purposely put in 21 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: my hair. 22 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 2: And it's so. 23 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: Funny because I have literally been trying for probably two 24 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: years now to grow out the front pieces of my 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: head all meet up. So now I'm like, of course, 26 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 1: finally when it's reaching that point, Now suddenly it's in 27 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: fashion to have a fringe. Yeah, but as soon as 28 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: you get yours cut, you'll be out of fashion and 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: you'll be fucked. Yeah. I was rocking curtain banks for 30 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: about you know, as I said, probably five six years, 31 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: whilst I'm trying to grow my fringe out. Well, Chloe 32 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: Zepp she's got the curtain bangs and they look really good. 33 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: And also friend of the show, Courtney Magnan, her hair 34 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: looks amazing. She's just got them done to it. 35 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: Did it looked so good? Yeah? 36 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean those when those girls got their curtain banks, 37 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: it did make me think, ah, maybe, but no, I'm 38 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: sticking to it because I'm in it for the long 39 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: hol Like I've been trying to grow my hair for 40 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 1: so long, it's actually starting to get longer, unfortunately not thicker. 41 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: But we will deal with what we've got. 42 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: I feel like we're gonna all look so retro though 43 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: without curtain bangs, fat leg of jeans. I mean what 44 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: I just going on? Yeah, And even when I was 45 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: at Marion the other weekend, I saw all this, like 46 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: seventy shit in typo. So look what you're saying, Marion, 47 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: that's a shopping center. 48 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: I hate frequents. Not everyone knows what Marian is. They 49 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: have those old plates. 50 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: They literally look like grandma and Grandpa's old plates, and 51 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: they're probably selling them for about fifteen dollars each. 52 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it blows my mind. Or that crap's coming back. 53 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear if anyone in our community has 54 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: gone and got the curtain bangs. Go to our Facebook group, 55 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: which has outspoken the podcast community, tell us so old. 56 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 2: Has anyone got. 57 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: Gone and got those curtain banks ches before and after photos? 58 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: I love that as well. 59 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: So can I just say no one calls fringes bangs. 60 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: That's an American term, fringe. 61 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 2: She's the trendy term. Curtainy. Fringe doesn't sound good. 62 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: That just sounds really and bang actually sounds really rude. 63 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: It's just hair. 64 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: It's not just hair lock brown. 65 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: It's chestnut with auburn highlight you know around women. 66 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: You we don't know how important a man's hair is. 67 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: I know it. On April ninth, Shameless announced their podcast 68 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: was embarking on a new era with the release of 69 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: their latest spinoff, Scandal. The podcast, which will deep dive 70 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: celebrity controversies, has already been compared to the mega successful 71 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: You're Wrong About podcast. However, things took an even more 72 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: interesting twist when Shameless's former employers and rivals Mom and 73 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: Mea announced their own investigative podcast series, Kate, Can you 74 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: tell us What's happened? Well, let's take it back to 75 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: the start. So on April nine, Shameless announce that they 76 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: would be releasing a new podcast called Scandal. Now, unlike 77 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: their other spinoff series, Scandal is actually appearing in these 78 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: Shameless podcast feed on a Monday, and it's going to 79 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: be replacing their in conversation episodes. So basically, the girls 80 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: have hinted that they will cover topics including Princess Diana, 81 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: Britney Spears, Lara Bingle, and the Janet Jackson Super Bowl drama. 82 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: So I found it really interesting because in an Instagram 83 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: reel where they introduced the new concept, Michelle Andrews said 84 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: that they were inspired to create scandal after they did 85 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: some research into Princess Diana for a Shameless podcast episode 86 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: released on November thirty. So, when you go back and 87 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: have a listen to this episode, particularly in the first introduction, 88 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: it's quite clear that it was that You're Wrong About 89 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: podcast that inspired the concept. So let's take a listen 90 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: back at what Michelle n Zara said. 91 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: If there's one thing taking hold of the zeitgeist at 92 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: the moment, it is Princess Diana. It's been twenty three 93 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: years since the former Princess died, and it feels a 94 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: little bit like the world won't ever fatigue from telling 95 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 3: and hearing her story. This month, The Crown season four dropped, 96 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 3: introducing Princess Diana to legions of the show's fans who 97 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 3: are perhaps too young to remember or accurately appreciate the 98 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: impact she had on the British royal family and the 99 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: world at large. The American podcast You're Wrong About Yes, 100 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 3: the one I just mentioned before last month, released a 101 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 3: five part series on the Princess of wales journey from 102 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: kindergarten teacher to world's most photographed woman. A podcast so 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: popular it's currently sitting at number four on the Aussie 104 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 3: podcast charts. 105 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: Before we dissect what the girls said. For those who 106 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: haven't heard of the podcast, You're wrong about it's an 107 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: independent podcast produced by American journalists Michael Hobbs and Sarah Marshall. 108 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: And the podcast was launched in twenty eighteen and it's 109 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: hit number one in the podcast charts in Australia as 110 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: well as America in twenty twenty. And I think it 111 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: was one of those podcasts that everybody listened to during lockdown. Oh, 112 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: I binge listened to the Princess Diana series and was 113 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: obsessed with the O. J. Simpson one and the Jessica 114 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Simpson series. Yeah, and what I really love about their 115 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: podcast is every week they look at a different event, person, 116 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: or phenomenon that has been miscast in the public's imagination. 117 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 118 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: So you can really see that there are a lot 119 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of similarities between the podcasts that Shameless are planning to 120 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: release and this very popular American podcast. Do you guys 121 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: think that Zara and Michelle should have actually mentioned that 122 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: they drew inspiration from this amazing podcast, because as an 123 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: avid listener of Shameless, it's quite clear that they listened 124 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: to the podcast, they've recommended it before, and referenced it 125 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: in stories that they have covered. Well, I actually only 126 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: found out about Your Wrong About from that Princess Diana 127 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: episode that they did. As soon as they spoke about it, 128 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: I went and listened to the podcast and became obsessed 129 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: with it like so many other people. So I really 130 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: do feel like, because they put out so many clues 131 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: along the way that they listened to it and enjoy 132 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: the podcast, it would have been nice to just throw 133 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: out the fact that they were inspired by it in 134 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: saying that I suppose we all haven't heard the podcast yet. Well, 135 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: just to be fair, though, there are other podcasts that 136 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: talk about similar topics that You're Wrong About does. I 137 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 1: don't necessarily think they have to reference the podcast, but 138 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 1: I suppose it becomes awkward because everyone just assumes it 139 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: is kind of a ripoff of You're Wrong About. I 140 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: think you make a really fair point, and to be 141 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: completely transparent, we were very much inspired by Shameless's podcast. 142 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: I mean it was the first podcast I listened to 143 00:06:58,600 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: and I absolutely loved it. 144 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: So it is fair to. 145 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: Say that a lot of people draw inspiration from other 146 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: popular podcasts. I mean, we even were discussing the fact 147 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: that we really wanted to do a deep dive into 148 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: different media cases that have really captured the public's attention. So, 149 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: for example, we're really interested in talking about the Chappelle 150 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: Krby case, which Amy did a thesis on, and also 151 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: Oscar story is so like them. We have been inspired 152 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: by not only their podcast, but You're Wrong About, and 153 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: that's where really good ideas come from. So I am 154 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: interested to see how they evolve the idea. However, I 155 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: think the thing that stands out is the fact that 156 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: they are a podcast that is already really successful. So 157 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: is it fair not to give You're Wrong About the 158 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: credit for the inspiration. That's what I'm wondering, Like, I 159 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: don't know the answer. They might come out and say 160 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: in their first episode that they are inspired by You're 161 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: Wrong About. I think as a bigger podcast, they do 162 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: have a greater responsibility to credit those who have inspired them. 163 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: That being said, I'm actually so excited. 164 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: For this series. 165 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: I really am too, and I'll be listening to this podcast. However, 166 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: it's got me thinking they've touched on topics about Britney Spears, 167 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,119 Speaker 1: about Princess Diana, and also about Janet Jackson. Now, they've 168 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: personally covered a few of those stories already on their podcast. 169 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: Obviously they're going to go into a deeper dive, but 170 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: there are so many now podcasts out there that are 171 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: sort of doing a similar thing, So I wonder if 172 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: we're going to get fatigue around some of these stories. Yeah, 173 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: I was surprised that they referenced the Princess Diana story 174 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: as being one that they were going to cover because 175 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: it has been covered so well by your wrongabout Yeah, 176 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: it is interesting, and I suppose will they be getting 177 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: some of their research from that podcast and then transferring 178 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: it across to themselves or they did say that they've 179 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: hired a full time researcher to do a lot of 180 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: this work, which is rather interesting when you take a 181 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: look at some of their reviews on Apple podcasts, because 182 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,839 Speaker 1: they have been heavily criticized for not getting their facts straight. Yeah. Well, 183 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: just recently they were kind of criticized in their reviews 184 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: because they said that the Internet had been white clear 185 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: of the Chloe Kardashian photo. However, you could I easily 186 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: find it on news websites. And they also got into 187 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of hot water because they said that 188 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: the Megan markle Oprah interview was done at Gail King's house. However, 189 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: it clearly was reported that that was not the case. 190 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: Can I defend them here because as someone who also 191 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: clearly does a podcast around timely matters, sometimes it is 192 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: hard to make sure all of your facts are up 193 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: to date. Oh, it is really hard, and that's why 194 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that they have got a researcher 195 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: on board, and it's a podcast that they can now 196 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: pre record, so they can very much check that their 197 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: facts are correct, because, Yeah, as you said, it's so 198 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 1: hard to keep up and stories. 199 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: Evolve so quickly. 200 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,599 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that they've scrapped their in conversation 201 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: show because I think that was a part of their 202 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: show that was getting a little bit old and it 203 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: felt like they'd interviewed everybody they possibly could. So from 204 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: that perspective, it is a good move for them to 205 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: go on to this new subject to talk about. I 206 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: really do feel like it was time for them to 207 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: do something different, especially the fact that they had changed 208 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: their regular line Monday show to a Thursday because it 209 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: was being released on a Thursday. It kind of felt 210 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: a little bit less relevant. So I really do think 211 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: that they needed a bit of a makeover and I 212 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: think this might be it for them. And you can 213 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: also tell in their stories they seem a lot more 214 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: passionate about you and they seem really excited. So I 215 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: personally can't wait to hear the first episode. I think 216 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: what makes this story even more interesting is the fact 217 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: that Muma Mia announced on Thursday that they too will 218 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: be launching their own new podcast called Extraordinary Stories. So 219 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: on Friday they actually released the podcast album cover artwork, 220 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: and it's quite clear that they're going to be discussing 221 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: a lot of the topic shameless a discussing. So in 222 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: the photo it's kind of like these women's half of 223 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: their faces and one is Ida butt Rose, another is 224 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: Britney Spears. 225 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 2: There's also Princess Diana and Naomi Campbell. 226 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: Now on the artwork they reference magazine Queens and the 227 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: blurb says, the stories you thought you knew, told by 228 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: the women who already do, from the glamor and scandal 229 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: of Australia's magazine Queens to an infamous, well known con woman, 230 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: to the princesses who've had to shake off a tragic 231 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: curse host Emma Gillespie cuts through the rumors to transport 232 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: you into a story you hadn't heard before. Extraordinary lives 233 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: told by extraordinary people. Welcome to extraordinary Stories. I don't 234 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: like the name as much, I have to say, if 235 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: we're comparing the two here, I think Scandal is a 236 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: lot more relevant to young people. It sounds a little 237 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: bit more exciting. Yeah, but Mamma MIA's audience isn't Shameless's audience, 238 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: Like the Mama Mia podcasts are sort of for women age, 239 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: I would say twenty five to fifty five. Well, it 240 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: seems like Mamma Mia might be a little bit annoyed 241 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: about the fact that Shameless have kind of overshadowed their 242 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: new announcement, So Mamma Mia Out Loud Producer Eliza Ratliffe 243 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: shared on her Instagram story on Friday a post that said, 244 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: on the twelfth of November twenty twenty, m Gillespie and 245 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: I locked ourselves in a room for two days and 246 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: planned something extraordinary. Now, the timing is pretty important because 247 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: Shameless said that they came up with a concept five 248 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: months ago, So five months ago was actually the date 249 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: that they released their episode about Princess Diana. Now I 250 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: kind of a questioning whether this is when they actually 251 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: started working on the podcast or the idea came about, 252 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: because it seems like Mom and Mia have been actively 253 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: working on this new podcast. It makes me think the 254 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: Chambers get a tip off that their idea was similar 255 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: to MoMA MIAs and they've quickly tried. 256 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: To launch it beforehand. 257 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: Wait wait, so just to confirm, they both claim to 258 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: have had the idea in November. Yeah, so Shameless have 259 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: said five months ago, which is November, and their podcast 260 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: about Princess Diana that they apparently got the inspiration for 261 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: this new idea was released on November the thirtieth. And 262 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: now Eliza Ratliffe is saying, well, me and m Gillespie 263 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: we were sitting around talking about this idea on November twelve. Well, 264 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: is it a bit of a coincidence that you're wrong 265 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: about was number one during that time? I would assume 266 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: that a lot of these big podcast companies would be 267 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 1: having a good look at the charts and seeing what 268 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: sort of programs are resonating with young women. Yeah. Well, 269 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: I wonder though, because you would assume that Shameless have 270 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: had a tip off that this Muma mea podcast is 271 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: coming out because they've announced it a week before Muma Mia, 272 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: but then not actually dropped an episode. Like normally when 273 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: you announce a series is coming, you then announce, oh, 274 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: it's dropping in a few days, not in two weeks time. 275 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, normally it's a. 276 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: Really immediate call to action, so that day or as 277 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: you said, a couple of days later. I have question 278 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: marks also around the fact that scandal is dropping in 279 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: the Shameless feed. I mean, it does make sense because 280 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: there's a ready built audience. However, Love Etcetera's had its 281 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: own podcast feed and totally different branding. I mean that 282 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: might have something to do with the fact that Bumble 283 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: are sponsoring it. However, I felt like there was a 284 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: lack of branding and artwork that was released on the date. Well, 285 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: even when they were producing Shoes on the Money, they 286 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: tried to keep it very separate because they are really 287 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: doing a very good job at building a massive media empire. 288 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: And even the fact that they just put a real 289 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: to make the announcement. I don't know, as you say, 290 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: I think it was all very rush to beat Mama Mia. 291 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: Do you blame them though, I mean, if they both 292 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: had the idea. If you had the idea and you 293 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: knew someone was going to release it, would you try 294 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: and release it earlier? 295 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: One hundred percent? 296 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: I would. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. 297 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean when I heard that they had pulled out 298 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: basically a similar idea to us, I was like, fuck, 299 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: blood bloody, come out with it. 300 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: So I completely see. 301 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: Like I do think it's interesting though, that there must 302 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: be some sort of source within Mom and. 303 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: Mia who's tipped them off. I wonder who that person. 304 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: Well, they all seem to be still friendly with some 305 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: of the writers out Mamma Mia, so I wonder. 306 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: If that Mum and Mia are trying to work out 307 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: who is the one that squilled. 308 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: Well. The best part about this is that I've got 309 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: two very good podcasts. I'm assuming I haven't listened yet 310 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: to add to my podcast rotation. 311 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: Like, I feel like every year has a new energy, 312 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: and I feel. 313 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: Like this year is really about like the year of 314 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: just realizing stuff and everyone around me were I was 315 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: just like realizing things. Now, let's get into the secret 316 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: world of social media engagement pods and the want to 317 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: be influencers that are tricking brands and their followers So 318 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: for people who haven't heard about engagement pods, can you 319 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: tell us what exactly they are? 320 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: Has I got anything to do with engagement rings, because 321 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: that's all I can know. 322 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: Nothing to do with engagement rings at all. It's more 323 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: of a social media method to fake following. So it's 324 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: quite well known that a lot of want to be 325 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: influencers are using a range of tactics to inflate their 326 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: social media followings, and one of the most popular at 327 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: the moment are these engagement pods. 328 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 2: So basically they are private. 329 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: Groups of people who like each other's posts to fake 330 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: likes and engagement on social media. So the groups try 331 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: to trick Instagram's algorithm by giving posts a spike of 332 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: engagement to make the post appear more valuable and to 333 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: make sure it's prioritized in the explorer section as well 334 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: as the followers feed. I mean, it's also used so 335 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: that you know, potential brands look at it and say, 336 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: oh wow, this person has an engaged audience. People are commenting, 337 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: so it really does significantly boost the view visibility of 338 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: that user's post. Yeah, because it is thought that if 339 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: a post initially gets a lot of engagement on it, 340 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: it will then push it into more people's feeds. There's 341 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot of people out there, like working in social 342 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: media with people that are probably over thirty five forty 343 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: that don't actually understand that your post, if you've got 344 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: fifty thousand followers, your post doesn't actually appear in every 345 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: single one of those people's feeds. It's engagement that drives 346 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: that post into more people's news feeds. It seems like 347 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: a very sophisticated form of getting likes because I remember 348 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: back in the day when Kylie Jenner would post a 349 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: photo and literally everyone would be like like for like underneath. 350 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: It just seems like it's more of an organized situation 351 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: going on. It's so true because, as you say, about 352 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: five years ago, the easiest way to post as an 353 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: influencer was either to do those likes for like comments 354 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: or to simply buy followers, which could be purchased for 355 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: a couple of dollars. But however, now as social media 356 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: platforms really become more savvy and the brands become more savvy, 357 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: they're having to go to these extends to kind of 358 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: trick people. So and they're real, but they're real people, 359 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: aren't it. Because before you were saying you could buy 360 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: fake followers, but the people that are liking and engaging 361 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: with your posts are actually real. Yeah, they are real people, 362 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: and that is why it's so confusing for brands. And 363 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: also usually Instagram or Facebook tries to block out bots. 364 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: So the fact that they are real people, they aren't 365 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: getting blocked, and this isn't being moderated in any way. 366 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: Well, a couple of years. 367 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: Ago, and I suppose it matches up when these engagement 368 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: pods first became popular. I do remember Instagram did that 369 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: big cul of all of those accounts and there were 370 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: so many influencers that lost a lot of followers. Well, yeah, 371 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: as you say, it's no longer just the number of 372 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: followers you have that is important. The engagement rate has 373 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: now become really the new online currency. So posts that 374 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: have a higher engagement rate get prioritized on Instagram's algorithm, 375 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: which then leads to higher visibility. So how do people 376 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: actually find these engagement pods? Because we actually had a 377 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: run in with a wanna be influencer a while ago. 378 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: We will not go into the details of that. However, 379 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: a mummy blogger. Yeah, it was a mummy blogger, and 380 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: it became quite apparent that she was in sort of 381 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: a mummy blogger engagement pod, and it seems like they 382 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: are able to find these niche markets that I suppose 383 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: brands are hoping to actually target, so it actually adds 384 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: to the realness of these influences. Yeah. Well what's scary 385 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: is that they are actually really accessible. And I don't 386 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: want to give anyone ideas out there, but yeah, you 387 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: can do a simple Google search or even find a 388 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: Facebook group that relates to these engagement pods. And as 389 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: you touched on them before, Kate, you really want to 390 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: find an engagement pod that has you know, the similar 391 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: interest to you. So as you say, a mummy blogger 392 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: pod or you know, even on my dog Archie's Instagram account, 393 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: I keep getting sent these messages from these engagement pods 394 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: who want me to try and sign up with He's 395 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: got so many followers. No, I was like, what are 396 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: these things? And it's oh, like for la like but yeah, 397 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: So there's two different sorts of pods. There's either a 398 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: manual one or an automated group pod. So basically you 399 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: can either buy software for one of these pods or 400 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: you can engage with them yourself. 401 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: Is that like that follow like a app thing. 402 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very similar to that sort of thing because 403 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: it puts you in the right sort of pod groups. 404 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: I do remember back in the day when a lot 405 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: of companies were signing up to follow like her, and 406 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: it was basically, as you said, an automated app that 407 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: would follow and then unfollow a whole lot of different 408 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: accounts and leave these like really embarrassing bulk messages and 409 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: you could really tell which influencers were. 410 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 2: Engaging in this. I think that that. What's that guy 411 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: from Love Ireland, Australia. 412 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, he's definitely on follow like everyone up. 413 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, with those sort of money. That's worse though. 414 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: I feel like if it's an automated thing, I mean, 415 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: I think it's bad being a part of a pod group, 416 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: but at least the people in those groups actually going 417 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: and looking at the content. But that's the thing in 418 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: some of these pod groups also. I'll explain how it works, 419 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: so give an example. So let's call out want to 420 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: be influencer Amber. So basically Amber joins one of these groups, 421 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: and before she can get any likes on her own photo, 422 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: she has to prove that she has engaged with a 423 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: number of other members photos, so she has to like 424 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: about five other people's posts before she's allowed to put 425 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: her photo in the group. She then shares a URL 426 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: link to her photo that she wants comments on. In 427 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: some cases, Amber can specify the exact comments she wants 428 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: back from people on the post. 429 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: It is absolutely wild. 430 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: How do they make sure that not everyone writes the 431 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: same comment? Well, I actually don't understand the complete intricacy 432 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: because I'm not part of this group, but that's why 433 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: all the comments are like you go girl. I suppose 434 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: they have to kind of read the comments above to 435 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: see that they're not doing exactly the same. But I think, 436 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: as with some of these automated groups, some of the 437 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: people who are engaging are actually bots as well. Wow, 438 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: So it's absolutely wild what's going on? Because I really 439 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: wasn't aware of this until quite recently Kate, when we 440 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 1: had our run in with that want to be Inluenzer, 441 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: and also when I started running Archie's page and I 442 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: kept getting these messages pop up. Well, I read an 443 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: article on Tribe and it was saying that more and 444 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: more social media managers are becoming aware of these kind 445 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: of groups and they're looking for people who have similar 446 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: comments on their pages, because it's pretty apparent if you 447 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: click on an influencer's page and all of their photos 448 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: are commented on by the exact same people, it's pretty 449 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: obviously part of a pod group. 450 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 2: But what's also a bit sad is. 451 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: That while a lot of the social media managers of 452 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: big brands might be cottoning onto it, what about the 453 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: small business owners who don't understand that actually, this person 454 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: isn't truly getting forty comments, it's forty sort of fake comments. 455 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very immoral. 456 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: It does make me think, though, because we discussed last 457 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: week about influencers with a lot of male followers, and 458 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: it almost seems like they have their own engagement pod 459 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: of CD men in different countries. 460 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: Maybe that's what it is. 461 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it made me think, though, who actually leaves 462 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: comments on influencers photos? 463 00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: I'd be really interested. 464 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: People you have community can tell us because I feel like, 465 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: now when you've got that forward button where you can 466 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: actually send influencers or people's posts on social media directly 467 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: to your friend, that's when you make comments, and it's 468 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: usually like oh my gosh, I love this person's jacket, 469 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: or probably derogatory things. Unfortunately, that other people might send. 470 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: Can you imagine, though, what it must be like at 471 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: high school these days. I mean, I think back to 472 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: our time at high school when really all we had 473 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: to worry about was MySpace and whether you were in 474 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: someone's top friends or not. 475 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: But that was stressful enough. That was stressful. 476 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: But these young people, in order to be perceived as 477 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: popular at school, you can't just be popular in your 478 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: own setting. You also have to be incredibly popular online 479 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: and be perceived as an influencer. And some of the 480 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: research I've done into this is showing that a lot 481 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: of these teenagers are part of these pod groups, and 482 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: they are also trying to pretend that they have sponsored deals. 483 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: So they will go out and take photos at a 484 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: restaurant of their coffee or food or in clothes that 485 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: they've brought, and they will purposely hashtag sponsored content or 486 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: spon con to act as if they have actually been 487 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 1: seeked out and that gives them some. 488 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 2: Sort of clout and status. 489 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: What does this do for these people's mental health? They're 490 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: particularly teenagers' mental health, because they know deep down that 491 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: the people interacting with their photos are not real and 492 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: not real in the sense that they might not be bots, 493 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: but they're only interacting with their photos to personally gain something, 494 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: which is clout and Instagram likes and followers. So really 495 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of sad that these people know deep down 496 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: that they don't have followers, but then they're trying to 497 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: act like an influencer. 498 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: It's just bizarre. 499 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: Well it's kind of faking it before they make it, 500 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: isn't it. And I feel like a lot of big 501 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: influencers out there used to do that years ago, and 502 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: by buying followers, because the whole reason why and the 503 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: whole psychology of why people actually buy fake followers or 504 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: join these engagement pods is because it's social proofing. 505 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 2: So for example, you know, if. 506 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: You go and click on a fashion article, maybe it's 507 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: an article about what genes to wear, and there's two articles, 508 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: one's got two shares and one's got a thousand shares, 509 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: You're always going to click on the one with the 510 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 1: one thousand shares. It's a bit like I'd never go 511 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: on to someone's page that had three hundred followers and 512 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: randomly follow them, but I'll feel fine about following a 513 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: stranger I don't know that has fifty thousand followers. So 514 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: they're kind of setting themselves up. That's a psychology behind it. 515 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: They want people to think that they are important, so 516 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: then they get that following later on. But what's psychologically 517 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: doing to them, because that's the psychology behind gaining followers. 518 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: But what's the psychological effect on them? Because it must 519 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: be pretty crazy to be pretending to yourself and all 520 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: these people that you are important when actual fact you're not. 521 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: In the eyes of social media. Well, they're obviously seeking validation, 522 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: aren't they. I think the validation from who because it's 523 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: fake people. Well, they're seeking validation from other people in 524 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: terms of people they know, because if they see that 525 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: they've got all these likes and this person thinks, oh, 526 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: they're going to think of me because I'm partulous. Yeah, 527 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: I think that's what it is. I mean, I'm not 528 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: a psychologist, but that's what I think it would be. 529 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: But also they are desperately hoping that if they look 530 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: like the real deal, and if these pod groups are 531 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: boosting their algorithm, that they will be featured somewhere and 532 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: that their content is so good and so interesting that 533 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: they will then get genuine followers. It seems like for 534 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: some fake influencers it's a case of denial. Well, other 535 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: than engagement pods, there's also another way that want to 536 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: be influencers as well as businesses are actually gaining more 537 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: followers and engagement. And it's through those infamous giveaways that 538 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: you often see celebrities like the Kardashians doing. You know 539 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: those posts that you see and they're sitting on a 540 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: staircase with all these luxury bags and cash and you 541 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: have to follow all of the businesses in order to 542 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: be in the running. You can spot these posts from 543 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: a while away. They all look the same. I saw 544 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: Anastasia kings North doing one just yesterday and I thought, oh. 545 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 2: These things still a thing. Who actually wins? 546 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 1: Because they never announced the winner, and you would think 547 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: that the winner would tag the person that they want 548 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: it from in a post. 549 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 550 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: Well, what's really interesting is that it is kind of 551 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: hard to keep a tab on these competitions because often 552 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: the influencer or the celebrity deletes the post as soon 553 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: as the competition winner has been announced, because yeah, because 554 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: it's quite embarrassing. So popular US website Betches. They did 555 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: a bit of digging and there's a business called Curated 556 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: Businesses in America and they handle a lot of the 557 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: competitions with the Kardashians, and this business worked with Kylie 558 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: Jenna a few years ago when she did a big 559 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: giveaway and on their website they claimed that companies who 560 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: signed up as part of this competition received over two 561 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thousand new followers, and the article went 562 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: on to say that each of the businesses involved in 563 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: this giveaway paid twenty five thousand dollars for the opportunity 564 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 1: to be tagged in the post, and there were seventy 565 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: five businesses, so this company would have made close to 566 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: two million dollars for this single post. They should have 567 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: just joined the engagement pause everyone. 568 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 2: It is a bit of a cheaper thing to do. 569 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: But the thing is how many of these businesses are 570 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: going to retain those followers? Because look, I've been sucked 571 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: into competitions where I have to follow an account. Okay, 572 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: it's not seventy five, it's usually like one or two, 573 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: but I usually unfollow that account as soon as I 574 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: don't win the competition. Definitely, Sometimes you're like, how is 575 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: what is this? It is? Well, it seems like the 576 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: UK Watchdog is actually cracking down on some competitions on 577 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: Instagram because recently Molly May, who was on Love Island, 578 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: she ran a competition by herself, so she put up 579 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: eight thousand pounds worth of prizes and she asked her 580 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: followers to comment on the post, so to tag somebody 581 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: and also like the posts and then go and subscribe 582 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: to her YouTube channel as well as her brand's YouTube channel. 583 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: So it was slightly different in the fact that she 584 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: was just promoting herself and she had purchased the gift herself, 585 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: so it wasn't involving a number of different brands. 586 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: And that seems to be. 587 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: A really common way that people do competitions these days. 588 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: It's usually like say Sarah's Days partnered up with White 589 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: Fox boutique, like you know, like her page, like their 590 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: page and comment. 591 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: It's a pretty general thing. 592 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: See, well, what happened was twelve people actually complained to 593 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: the UK Watchdog and said that they believe that Molly 594 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: May and her management team didn't fairly pick the winner 595 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: of the competition. And Molly May was quite transparent about it. 596 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: She said that she was overwhelmed with the number of 597 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: people who actually entered the competition, so she had three 598 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: million people comment and what they did was her manager 599 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: went through and picked out one hundred different names. They 600 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: gave each of those person a number, and then there's 601 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: this Google app that you can use. It randomly picks 602 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: out a number and that's how they drew it. But 603 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: the UK Watchdog said that that wasn't fair for all 604 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: of the people who had entered. To be fair, though, 605 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 1: there's a reason why Molly may set this competition up. 606 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: And it's quite obvious that she's going to gain more 607 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: by getting more followers than eight thousand dollars, because she 608 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't give eight thousand dollars away. Well, as you said, 609 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: these bigger companies paid twenty five thousand dollars to be 610 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: involved in the Kylie Jenney giveaway, so eight grand in 611 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: comparison isn't that much. But it's her own followers. She's 612 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: promoting the competition to her own followers. But what I'm praying, 613 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: but then friends who tag, then her audience becomes bigger 614 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: and bigger and bigger. So she's essentially gained three million 615 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: extra followers if three million people entered correctly. So that's 616 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: a massive thing. And if you're going to run a 617 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: competition like that, then you've got to have pretty decent 618 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: terms and conditions, and I think, you know, if she 619 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 1: put in the terms and conditions, the winner will be 620 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: decided upon at the discretion of Molly May. Fair enough, 621 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: But if she said that the winner is going to 622 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: be randomly picked, I think by selecting one hundred people 623 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: and then randomly selecting from there doesn't really seem fair. 624 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: I mean, to be fair, though all these people did, 625 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 1: they didn't have to pay to enter the competition. I 626 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: just think they want to end. You know, they didn't 627 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: have a gun to their head to enter Molly May's 628 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: I think these people are just sour that they didn't win. No, 629 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: I feel like Molly May has actually gained a lot 630 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: from the competition, and she's a legitimate business, and she 631 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: directed people to her legitimate business's YouTube account and gained 632 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: a lot of followers from there, so she needs to 633 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: run follow them by the rules. Well, but she also 634 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: received a lot of bad public because twelve people decided 635 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: to have an issue. 636 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: But she did go by the rules. 637 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there were three million comments, but 638 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: they would have been people that were commenting multiple entries. Yeah, 639 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: but if the rules were followed, the watch Dog wouldn't 640 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: have got involved. Look, I think, you know what, she's 641 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: pretty clever because I'd rather pay eight thousand dollars to 642 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: get a million subscribers than paying twenty five ground for 643 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: two hundred and forty. Well that's the thing though, with 644 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: these sort of watchdogs, it really seems like there's just 645 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: simply a slap on the risk, don't do it again, 646 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: and a little bit of public shaming that goes with it. 647 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we saw Anna Heinrich from The Bachelor. She 648 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: copped the first sort of slap on the risk regarding 649 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: sponsored posts and not revealing that she was actually paid 650 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: to promote a fashion brand. So it would be really 651 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: interesting to see how that actually starts evolving in Australia. 652 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: But do you notice it's only the really large influences 653 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: who seem to be being punished because these are smaller 654 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, these people who are in these engagement pods, 655 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: they're smaller influencers, and I feel like they're even worse 656 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: because everything off small businesses by pretending to be something 657 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: that they're not. But that being said, I wanted to 658 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: touch on it earlier. It's actually not just micro influencers 659 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: who apparently join these groups. 660 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: There are some. 661 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: Engagement pods that require you to have at least fifty 662 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: thousand followers in order to join. So just say, for instance, 663 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: if someone has one million followers, if they engage with 664 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: your post and like it, Instagram pushes it up even 665 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: further in the discovery feed. Okay, I didn't realize that 666 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: it will be really interesting to see how Australia's social 667 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: media rules evolve. I mean, we're definitely not in the 668 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: same place that the UK are, and I really do 669 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: wonder will there be rules that stop engagement pods from happening. 670 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: And I feel like it was really important to talk 671 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: about this today because I know that a lot of 672 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: small business owners do listen to our podcast as well 673 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 1: as marketing professionals, and I think it is so important 674 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: to be able to spot these people because personally, it 675 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: made me really angry when I saw this individual that 676 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: we had to run in with doing this and she 677 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: was also doing the same thing with fake sponsored content, 678 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: and it just becomes so utterly confusing for business owners 679 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: and such a head far. Yeah, and one tip is 680 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: a person is posting content that looks shit that is 681 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: in no way engaged, it's photoshopped. That Yeah, that's photoshopped. 682 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: It's not a real influencer. Well, I think that's all 683 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: we've got time for today. Thank you so much for 684 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: joining us, and if you did like the podcast, we 685 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: would love it if you could subscribe and leave a review. 686 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: And if you do want to join in the conversation, 687 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: head over to our Facebook group, which has outspoken the 688 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: podcast community.