1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast. Hello and welcome. My 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: name's doctor Justin Coulson. Your child comes home and announces 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: they want to quit soccer or piano, or swimming, or 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: art or just about anything. Do you let them? When 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: is quitting teaching resilience and when is it teaching them 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: to give up too easily. There is actually a magic 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: threshold and every skill that changes everything, and most kids 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: quit right before they reach it. That's what we're exploring 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: on today's podcast. Stay with us. Hello and welcome to 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: the Happy Families podcast. Real Parenting Solutions every day on 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are doctor Justin and 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. Every skill that your child attempts has what 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: researchers call a confidence threshold. Essentially, it's a magic line. 14 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Before they cross this line, everything feels hard and frustrating 15 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: and unrewarding. And after they cross it, the same activity 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: starts to not always but it starts to feel good 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: and enjoyable and worth doing. 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: The image that comes to mind as you're saying that 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: is a child learning to ride a bike. When you 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: watch them in those early stages, it's really wobbly they're 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: like they're about to topple over and they're constantly putting 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: their feet on the ground to stop their fall. And 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: yet when they break through that, the feeling of freedom 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: that they get is they glide through the air. That's 25 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 2: what we're talking about, right, It's up until that point, 26 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: it was so hard. 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the key word up until that point, generally 28 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: out of your child's mouth will be. 29 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: I hate this. 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: Well, well that's another one. I was going to say, can't. 31 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: I can't do this. It's too hard. I can't do it. 32 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: So I would say that same pattern applies to pretty 33 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: much anything, whether it's playing instruments or reading, or playing 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: a shoelace or writing your name or sports. Literally every 35 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: skill follows this pattern. 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is, in my personal experience, it 37 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 2: goes from being hard, hard, hard hard hard. Oh, hang 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: on a sec, I just got it. Like it feels 39 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: like it's kind of like this, like a light switch. 40 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: You go from I can't do it, I can't do it, 41 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: I can't do it. I hang on, Actually I can 42 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 2: do it. Yeah. 43 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. This is my impression of a child learning to 44 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: write a bike or learning to swim or do some thing. 45 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: I can't. 46 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 2: I can't. 47 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: I can't, I can't, I can't. This is fun. 48 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: I want to do more of this. 49 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's right. And this goes back to 50 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: the whole competence thing. 51 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 2: Right. 52 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: We're always talking on the podcast about competence being a 53 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: basic psychological need, and if you want to become competent, 54 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: you need to understand the structure or the process or 55 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: the formula or the framework or the system or whatever 56 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 1: it is that underpins competence and mastery and that thing. 57 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: So to write an essay, kids literally they stare at 58 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: that piece of paper or they stare at the curse 59 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: of blinking on the word document and just go, I can't. 60 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: But once they understand the structure an essay, tell me 61 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: what you're going to tell me, Then tell me, Then 62 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 1: tell me what you told me. That's the structure of 63 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: an essay. Once they understand that they have someone guide 64 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: them through it. They're someone like, oh is that all? 65 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I get that. Now. Riding the essay maybe 66 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: that's not going to be as fun as riding a bike, 67 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: but but they've developed that sense of confidence. 68 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: I can't think of anything that I've quit before I 69 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: actually got okay, at it. 70 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: You haven't said that though your parents didn't exactly put 71 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: you into a whole lot of enrichment activities when you're 72 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: a child. No, they did it like they weren't sending 73 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: you off to swimming lessons. And I was going to 74 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: say horse riding, like I can afford a horse riding, 75 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: But they weren't sending you off to all of those things, 76 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: piano lessons and so on. 77 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: No, But I was just a kid with grit. My 78 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: dad had a ten speed bike. It was a mail bike, 79 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: so it had the bar across the top. I could 80 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 2: hardly touch the ground once I straddled his bike. But 81 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: I was so determined that I was going to learn 82 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: to ride a bike that I rode around on the 83 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: grass around our house over and over again. I smashed 84 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: every light reflect a thing on my dad's bike. But 85 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: I was determined, and and I finally mastered riding a bike, 86 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: not because somebody taught me, because I was so motivated 87 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: to do so. 88 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: And see, I quit heaps of the. 89 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: Say with rollerskating. My cousin had rollerskates, and I was 90 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: going down the hill. I wasn't even on the flat. 91 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: I've fell over, busted my bum so many times. But again, 92 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: I was just really determined, and as I've matured as 93 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: an adult, I just have this kind of I don't know, 94 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 2: this sense I can do hard things. Even when it's 95 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 2: really hard, I'm going to give it a go. 96 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, personality characteristics. So what's odd there is that there's 97 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of things that I'm not very good at 98 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: that I've persisted at because I want to get competent 99 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: in them. Surfing would be an example of that, or 100 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: even cycling. I've achieved reasonable levels of competence in both, 101 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 1: but these are things that you can't master. There's always 102 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: another level, there's always more that you can do. But 103 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: I love the sense of progress. I love the feeling 104 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: of progress there. But I've quit roller skating, and i 105 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: quit piano lessons, and i quit swimming, and I quit Did. 106 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: You ever start roller skating? Let's just di real. 107 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: We used to go on the Central Coast. That was 108 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: a place in man Street called Froggies. Anyone who is 109 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: on the Central Coast and lived back in the nineteen 110 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: eighties on the coast would remember Froggies. That was the 111 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: roll skating rink and I went there quite often for 112 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: somebody who didn't roll about to. 113 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: Say, considering what I've seen, I'm really surprised. 114 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: Probably about a dozen times I was skating, I've done 115 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: that a dozen times as well. Never going to do 116 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: that horse riding. Dumb stupid, can't stand it, Like I've 117 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: quit so many things because I never reached that level 118 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: of that competence threshold. That's what this is really about. 119 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: It's the competence threshold. 120 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: But I think it also brings up another point. It's 121 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: actually about the motivation behind like what's your why? Why 122 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: is your child doing X, Y and z Okay? 123 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Well, that ties in with basic psychological needs? Right, So 124 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: are my friends doing it? Or am I choosing to 125 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: do it myself? If the answer is not to both 126 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: of them, then there's not going to be any persistence. 127 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: And frankly, and none of my friends were really serious 128 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: about us roller skating, but we skateboard it a lot. 129 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were serious about surfing. All your friends 130 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: were doing that. 131 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Yeah, And I love the progress and 132 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: I got to choose to do it. Basic psychological needs 133 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: drive motivation. Here's what the research tells us. Adults who 134 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: played sports as children scored thirty four percent higher on 135 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: measures of Britten perseverance compared to only twenty three percent 136 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: of those who never played sports. But the key isn't 137 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: just anticipating, it's sticking through the challenges long enough to 138 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: reach competence. So the stake that we make as parents 139 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: is letting our kids quit when they're in the valley 140 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: rather than on the mountain peak. It's really hard to 141 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: say this that kids shouldn't quit before they reach basic confidence. 142 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: It's something that they've committed to because they haven't yet 143 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: experienced what it feels like when the skill becomes rewarding. 144 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: And so again I guess I go back to that motivation. 145 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: Whose motivation was it to start the activity in the 146 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 2: first place. If it's the child, then I totally agree 147 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: with you. But if it's you as the parent, and 148 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: every week is just hard work and there's constant battles 149 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: getting them out the door, I actually think that that 150 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 2: is not a positive. 151 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: So the story that we've often shared on the podcast 152 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: is our eldest daughter wanted to ride velodrome track cycling 153 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: with me on a Friday night when we lived in 154 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: the Illawarra region. So we went and spend all the 155 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: money and bought all the gear. Even though I was 156 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: a student, we didn't have any money for it. It 157 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: was a huge sacrifice, and after about four or five 158 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: weeks she decided she didn't want to do it anymore. 159 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: But what she was discovering is number One, she wasn't competent. 160 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: She was in that I can't zone. She hadn't reached 161 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: the confidence threshold. But secondly, she really didn't have the 162 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: relationships and the defeat the way she was being defeated, 163 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: she was just like beliterated, yeah, and it just wasn't 164 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: that important to her. If she had better relationships, I 165 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: reckon she probably would have been in. It's not that 166 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: anyone was unkind, but she just didn't have the deep 167 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: relationships that all the other girls who competed and had 168 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: been doing so full years and years and years had developed. 169 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: So she kind of felt like she was slightly on 170 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: the outer. If I was raising young kids now I 171 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: guess we are with one of our kids, I'd be 172 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: using this confidence threshold concept in terms of guiding our 173 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: kids around sticking at stuff. So you want to quit 174 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: the piano, that's fine, but let's get you to a 175 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: point where you can actually play it. Maybe Grade two 176 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: level before you quit, because that way, you're not quitting 177 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: in the valley, you're quitting up on top of the mountain. 178 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: I might just add as an extension of this, Angela Duckworth, 179 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: who's world's leading expert on grit, has a rule in 180 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: her house. It's kind of similar. Her kids can quit activities, 181 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: but they can't quit on a hard day. So they 182 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: can't quit right after a last they can't quit for 183 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: a bad performance or when they're feeling frustrated. 184 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: I really love that. I love that because what it's 185 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: teaching our kids, number one, is that it's okay to 186 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: have a bad day, but if we're going to make 187 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 2: important decisions that are going to change the outcome, it's 188 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: really important to not do it in that space of 189 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: high emotion. 190 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the research back set up. Studies show that 191 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: kids learn resilience not by being told about what resilience is, 192 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: but by actually experiencing working through the difficult emotions and 193 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: the difficult situations and the losses and that sort of stuff. 194 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: And when we rescue our kids from every struggle, we 195 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: pretty much rob them of the opportunity, the capacity, or yeah, 196 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: the opportunity, the chance to discover their own capacity. 197 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 2: And I think we've experienced it multiple times with our 198 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 2: kids where they've been in that high emotion state and 199 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: they've wanted to quit, and we've kind of helped them, 200 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: you know, work through that, and they've come out the 201 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: other side and they've gone, you know what, I actually 202 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: think I'm going to go back and give it another go. 203 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: You know. It's just it's giving them the space to 204 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 2: work through that and sit on the other side of discomfort. 205 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Okay, after the break, we're going to talk more about 206 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: that discomfort where we call it distressed tolerance or frustration tolerance, 207 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: and that's where we're going to dive deep. Okay, So 208 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: we've talked about this competence threshold. This is an idea 209 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: that I developed a handful of years ago and I 210 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: teach you to my resilience workshops. Now, my resilience workshop 211 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 1: is called ADI Fragile. So let's say competence exists on 212 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: a curve. When you start something, there's this really steep 213 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: learning curve, but because you're so bad at something, you 214 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: get reasonably okay ish at it really fast. Like you 215 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: go from not even knowing what middle C is on 216 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: the piano to being able to play Twinkle Twink a 217 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: Little Star in about four weeks, and within another few 218 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: weeks you can play another couple of songs and you're like, yeah, 219 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: I'm getting really good at this. And then the music 220 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: teacher starts teaching you how to cite read, and all 221 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you've hit a level of competence is 222 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: a very low one. And then this competence curve starts 223 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: to plateau. And this is one of the biggest reasons 224 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: that kids want to quit, because they hit this wall 225 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: in what felt like really exciting progress, really really exciting improvement. 226 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: At the start, you can see yourself getting better every week. 227 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: Then progress slows down, stops entirely. It's called a learning plateau. 228 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: And the research around this is really clear. Plato's are 229 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: not signs of failure. They're not signs of a lack 230 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: of ability. They're natural. They're predictable, like they're supposed to 231 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: happen when you're developing a new skill. They happen to everybody, 232 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: and studies of skill acquisition show that these platos often 233 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: occur right before the next breakthrough and performance. You've just 234 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: got to be willing to say I'm leveling out. This 235 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: doesn't feel good. That must mean that there's some learning coming. 236 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: It's interesting. I was having a conversation with your mum 237 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: the other day and I was having a bit of 238 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: a dummy spit about some challenges that I'm experiencing right now. 239 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 2: And she said to me, she said, what you're actually 240 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: saying if you quit now, She said, what you're actually 241 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 2: saying is I'm really happy at being a grade five level, 242 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: like I've learned everything I need to learn. She said, 243 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: each time we hit a stumble or a challenge, it's 244 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: actually giving us the opportunity to level up. It's actually 245 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: giving us an opportunity to progress and get better at it. 246 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: We don't get better while we're sitting at our comfort zones. 247 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: We actually have to feel the friction of discomfort for 248 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 2: us to grow. 249 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: Well, let's pick up on that discomfort idea. I want 250 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: to talk about distressed tolerance. Distress tolerance equals life skills, 251 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: which is really what the conversation is that you had 252 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: with my mum. So when we let our kids quit 253 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: every time something gets hard, we're inadvertently teaching them that 254 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: discomfort should be avoided. But you know this, and I 255 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: know this. Research on child development shows is something that's 256 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: really crucial. The ability to tolerate distress and work through 257 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: difficult emotions pretty much one of the most important love 258 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: skills that we can help our children to develop. And 259 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: studies have shown that when you follow kids into adulthood, 260 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: those who learned to persist through challenges when they were 261 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: kids doing childhood activities, that is, they've developed frustration tolerance 262 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: or distress tolerance. It's the capacity to handle difficult feelings 263 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: without being overwhelmed by them. That skill transfers directly to 264 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: academic challenges and relationships and work situations and every other 265 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: area of life. Can you tolerate the distress? Can you 266 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: survive it? It's really about self control. Dunedin study thirty 267 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: years of research looking at people who had good or 268 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: bad life outcomes. They followed them across that thirty years 269 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: and basically the people who had more self control the 270 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: ability to tolerate distress. Now, this doesn't mean that you're 271 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: supposed to endure long periods of trauma and awfulness because 272 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: it'll make you a better person, will refine you. That's 273 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: not what this is about. This is basically, I'm able 274 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: to sit in this discomfort of not knowing how to 275 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: play the piece on the piano. I'm able to sit 276 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: in the discomfort of not being able to paddle my 277 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: surfboard out through the waves to get out the back. 278 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: I'm able to sit in the discomfort of falling off 279 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: my bicycle on that jump three times in a row. 280 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: And even though I've gone to hospital twice because of it, 281 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep on going because I want to 282 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: master this jump. Distress tolerance, frustration tolerance, Push through it. 283 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: Don't go for the quick answer. Get good at de 284 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: layed gratification. You become resilient. 285 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: I was watching a TV show the other day and 286 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: there was this beautiful scene depicted between a son and 287 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: a mum. There had been a decision made by an 288 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: authority figure that was unfair, but that there was no 289 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: way that they could change their mind. This was just 290 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: their reality, and the sun was really really angry, and 291 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 2: he said, it's not fair, Mum, it's really not fair. 292 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 2: Tell me it's not fair. And she was trying really 293 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: hard to be diplomatic and be, you know, the adult 294 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: in the room, and she said, you know what, it's 295 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: actually not fair. I get that. And he said, I'm 296 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: just so mad, and she said I'm mad too, Let's 297 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: be mad together. And they just sat in that space, 298 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: in that really, really uncomfortable space together and it was 299 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: just beautiful because so often we want to try and 300 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: coddle our kids and kind of just you know, move 301 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: them through it. But I loved that they were just 302 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 2: able to show in such a really simplistic way that 303 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: it's okay to be angry and I'm going to sit 304 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 2: here with you in that discomfort. 305 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if we rescue kids from every struggle, 306 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: we rob them of the chance to discover that they're 307 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: more resilient than they think. Often resilience doesn't look like resilience, 308 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: and it doesn't feel like resilience, but the feeling of 309 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: accomplishment and genuine confidence that you get from pushing through 310 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: something that's really hard. It's something that you can't buy, 311 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: you can't inherit it, you have to earn it, and 312 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: it feels really good when you do hard things and 313 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: earn things. Mastery is something that is its genuine status. 314 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: It just feels good, whether you're a child or an adult. 315 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: Let's wrap this up. Our time is done. When your 316 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: child wants to quit, you're not just making a decision 317 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: about soccer or the piano. You're helping them to develop 318 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: the internal resources that they're going to need to navigate 319 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: every challenge they'll face as adults. Get them involved in 320 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: activities that they're choosing. Autonomy will help ideally get them 321 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: in activities that they have friends engaged in relationship matters, 322 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: and then help them to see progress. Oh, we're out 323 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: of time, but I've got to tell you our daughter, Emily, 324 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: eleven years old. You know how she started surfing with 325 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: me at the start of the year. She's basically given up. 326 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to get her into the water 327 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: for a couple of months. 328 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: Well, it is the middle of winter and it's freezing. 329 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: Well, even though it's the middle of winter and it's freezing, 330 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: she has a couple of friends who go surfing every 331 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: Wednesday morning down at the local beach and have surf lessons. 332 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: And I took down there last week and she loved 333 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: it because she was with her friends and she felt 334 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: like she made some progress, and she signed up for 335 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: the rest of the term. She doesn't want to surf 336 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: with me. She wants to surf with her friends because 337 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: basic psychological needs. I feel confident I'm choosing it myself 338 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: and I'm with my friends winning. The Happy Family's podcast 339 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides 340 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: additional research and admin support. If you would like more 341 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: details about making your family happy. Resources in info can 342 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: be found at happy families dot com, dot a you 343 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: hm