1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: When parents ask me how they can be better parents,

2
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,720
Speaker 1: I have one non psychological answer that I think matters

3
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:18,639
Speaker 1: more than any other answer, and it's this, get enough sleep.

4
00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: Have you noticed that you're a lousy parent when you're tired,

5
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,600
Speaker 1: but when you've had enough sleep? And I know sometimes

6
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: it feels like that was a long time ago, but

7
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: when you've had enough sleep, it's amazing how good you are,

8
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: how good you feel, how patient you are, how regulated

9
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,599
Speaker 1: you are. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,

10
00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 1: the Real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded

11
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,800
Speaker 1: parenting podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson, and today

12
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 1: I am joined by sleep specialist extraordinaire, Doctor Moya Vandelur

13
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: is a respiratory and sleep specialist at the Royal Children's

14
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,560
Speaker 1: Hospital in Melbourne. We've got some results from the latest

15
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,640
Speaker 1: children's health poll that comes out of the RCH and

16
00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: we're going to discuss sleep today. Not so much your sleep,

17
00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,119
Speaker 1: although that might come up, but absolutely your beliefs about

18
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,640
Speaker 1: your children's sleep and how that works out for them.

19
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,760
Speaker 1: Doctor Moyer, I'm so glad you're joining me. Thank you

20
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: for being here, Thanks.

21
00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,760
Speaker 2: For inviting me. Justin I love talking about sleep, so

22
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:18,759
Speaker 2: I'm in the right place.

23
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you talk about sleep

24
00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,479
Speaker 1: and the obvious joke is I hope I don't put

25
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,760
Speaker 1: you to sleep, but I find sleep fascinating. Like I

26
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,400
Speaker 1: can't wait for our discussion. I've been looking forward to

27
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 1: this for a few days since we booked it in.

28
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 1: Before we kick off, though, I want to do something

29
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 1: a bit unusual, just to make sure everyone is fully awake.

30
00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,600
Speaker 1: I've put together a list of common ideas about sleep.

31
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 1: Some of them are true, some of them are false.

32
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: Some of them you'll just say absolutely yes, others are

33
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,679
Speaker 1: completely no. I know that a couple of them are

34
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: a little bit murky, but I'd like to start with

35
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 1: a quick game. We're not going to hold you up

36
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 1: to any kind of horrendous academic scrutiny here. We're just

37
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: looking for what's useful for parents to know. I'm going

38
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,280
Speaker 1: to give you a couple of passes. So it's a

39
00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: lightning rat. It's just yes or no, true or false.

40
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 1: But if you really do have to elaborate, we'll let

41
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: you do that on two. We can come back to

42
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 1: others later in the conversation. If that's Okay, does that

43
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 1: sound horribly unfair.

44
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 2: Very unfair, But let's know it all right.

45
00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: Number one tru or false. Teens who can't get up

46
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,880
Speaker 1: for school are just being lazy.

47
00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 2: One false.

48
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: Oh that was that was much stronger than I thought.

49
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 1: Next one, A child who reads on a tablet before

50
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 1: bed gets the same quality of sleep as one who's

51
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 1: reading a physical book.

52
00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 2: False.

53
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,720
Speaker 1: Huh. Teens naturally need much less sleep than primary school children.

54
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: Not much less, but yes, less sleep. Okay, that was

55
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 2: a little bit of a politician's answer, wasn't it.

56
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: What I heard was teens don't need as much sleep

57
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: as primary school age children as a general rule, is

58
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 1: what I heard?

59
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay.

60
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 1: Kids can catch up on last sleep during the weekend.

61
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,959
Speaker 2: They can, but it's not effective in a long term.

62
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'll take that as a year. Nah's later.

63
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,639
Speaker 1: That's a really Australian phrase. Yeah nah, here's an X

64
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 1: one exercise right before bedtime helps children sleep better. No false,

65
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,919
Speaker 1: So my wife has been right. Don't roll the kids

66
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 1: up before bed.

67
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 2: Your wife is the expert.

68
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, Keeping a consistent bedtime only matters

69
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: on school night. It's true or false?

70
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 2: False?

71
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 1: Screen time before bed can help kids to wind down.

72
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 2: Else.

73
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,079
Speaker 1: I love the way you We're not videoing this, but

74
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,239
Speaker 1: the look on your face as you it was this

75
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,640
Speaker 1: disapproving stare down the camera like can we please?

76
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, my poker face isn't working too well at all.

77
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 1: All right, I have two more. Warm milk before bed

78
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 1: is scientifically proven to help kids sleep.

79
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 2: I haven't looked at the evidence on this recently. You

80
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 2: might have got me there justin I don't know about

81
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:52,960
Speaker 2: the science.

82
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,640
Speaker 1: But my grandma, Oh, my grandma was a big believer

83
00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: in the warm milk before bed to settle the tummy

84
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,120
Speaker 1: and get the kids asleep.

85
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 2: Well, she might be onto something. As long as you

86
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 2: warn a bed wetter, maybe it was helpful.

87
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 1: All right, here's the last one. Children who share a

88
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 1: room typically have worse sleep.

89
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 2: Quality, not always. Okay, I'll pass on that one.

90
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:19,359
Speaker 1: Okay.

91
00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can talk about the you know, the importance

92
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 2: of a healthy or sort of optimal sleep environment later,

93
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,359
Speaker 2: I guess. But I would say there's no hard and

94
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:32,479
Speaker 2: fast rule about that.

95
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,120
Speaker 1: Interesting. I thought i'd throw that one in there because

96
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,800
Speaker 1: the concept of a sleep divorce for adults has become

97
00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 1: quite popular in recent years. That is you can stay married,

98
00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,520
Speaker 1: but just sleep in different rooms, because the quality of

99
00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,320
Speaker 1: your sleep is better when you're not sharing the bed.

100
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 1: And I thought, I wonder if kids. I know that

101
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,599
Speaker 1: when my kids share room, which we live in a

102
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,719
Speaker 1: fairly modest home on the Sunshine Coast because it's a

103
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: pricey place to live, and we've got kids that are

104
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,640
Speaker 1: sharing rooms, and we find that they go to sleep

105
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 1: much later, but they still seem to sleep pretty well.

106
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,920
Speaker 2: Look, we know that a dark, quiet room will help

107
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,680
Speaker 2: with sleep. I guess if one of your children was

108
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 2: really noisy and snoring or sleep talking, they might interfere

109
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 2: with the sleep of the other. But I mean, generally speaking,

110
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,360
Speaker 2: they're no hard and fast rules. And I think if

111
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 2: you have a good sleep routine for both children, and

112
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,279
Speaker 2: obviously there's a dynamic between the two kids, and that

113
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 2: might change with age as well. But I mean, I

114
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 2: certainly wouldn't commit to saying that kids sharing a room

115
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 2: is a bad or necessarily a good thing. I think

116
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,640
Speaker 2: in my experience looking after you kids with sleep problems,

117
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: there are some children that probably do better actually sharing

118
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 2: a room. So kids that have you know, anxiety, a

119
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,720
Speaker 2: sort of separation anxiety, they might do better with the

120
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 2: sibling sleeping in their room. No hard and fast thrills

121
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,440
Speaker 2: about that one.

122
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: What I do know is that parents who share a

123
00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,680
Speaker 1: room with a bed with a toddler do not get

124
00:05:58,680 --> 00:05:59,479
Speaker 1: any sleep at all.

125
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, well, I mean babies, babies and toddlers. Well,

126
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 2: toddlers are very restless, so we know that with aged

127
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 2: a toddler compared to an adolescent, is going to naturally

128
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 2: and normally move around a lot more during sleep. So yeah,

129
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 2: for lots of reasons. Probably I can understand why you

130
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,679
Speaker 2: wouldn't be getting much sleep with the toddler.

131
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, starfish, that's their favorite post Starfish. While I sleep,

132
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,680
Speaker 1: just arms and legs out as much as they can. Okay,

133
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 1: thanks for humoring me with some fun questions. Let's stad

134
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 1: into I guess a broader and deeper discussion about sleep.

135
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 1: Can you explain what the recommended amount of sleep is

136
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 1: for different age groups, starting with our youngest kids going

137
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,279
Speaker 1: right through to later adolescents. But to kick that off,

138
00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 1: I guess there's going to be some caveats, right, we're

139
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 1: talking about averages here, So what do we need to

140
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,840
Speaker 1: know when it comes to how much sleep kids need?

141
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,159
Speaker 2: So, look, that is an important question. I guess the

142
00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,479
Speaker 2: caveat I should probably start with the caveatchoo is that

143
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 2: every individual there are Whilst there are guidances or guidelines

144
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 2: around how much sleep children need, it really is an

145
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 2: individual thing. So I guess what I mean by that

146
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 2: is that one child, you know, might be getting the

147
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 2: recommended amount of sleep as per the guidelines, Whereas if

148
00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 2: you find that your child is tired, then I'd probably

149
00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: recommend that you try and extend their sleep with an

150
00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: earlier bedtime. Does that make Does that make sense? Yeah?

151
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, I mean yeah, this is one of

152
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: those things as well where I think most parents just say,

153
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 1: got a bit because you're tired, and when you wake

154
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 1: up in the morning, we'll get things going. So, doctor Moyer,

155
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 1: how much sleep should our kids be getting? Let's just

156
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 1: start with the toddlers.

157
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So justin that is a really important question, I

158
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 2: should start really by saying that every child needs a

159
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,960
Speaker 2: different amount of sleep, and obviously that changes as they age.

160
00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,840
Speaker 2: As a guide for toddlers, so from age one to

161
00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 2: three years, we would recommend twelve to fourteen hours, right, And.

162
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 1: That's in a twenty four hour period, isn't It's not

163
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,440
Speaker 1: like it's forty hours at not because toddlers often have

164
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 1: a daytime nap.

165
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 2: That's really important to remember exactly. It's a twenty four

166
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,000
Speaker 2: hour period, so twelve to fourteen hours in twenty four

167
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 2: I should really explain a little further though, when we

168
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 2: talk about recommended hours of sleep, if your child is

169
00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 2: getting the recommended hours of sleep and still seems tied,

170
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,400
Speaker 2: or you know, there are behaviors that you think might

171
00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 2: be in the setting of not getting enough sleep, it's

172
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,079
Speaker 2: important to keep in mind that we all have different

173
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 2: sleep needs. So trying to extend the amount of sleep

174
00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 2: your child's getting and seeing if it makes a difference,

175
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 2: it would definitely be worthwhile.

176
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 1: And I guess the inverse would be true as well.

177
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 1: If you're trying to get them to go to sleep

178
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 1: and they won't and then they still wake up energized

179
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: even though they had less sleep than you think, and

180
00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,280
Speaker 1: that's a consistent pattern, then maybe they don't need that

181
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,280
Speaker 1: twelve to fourteen They need eleven to twelve.

182
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Correct. When we think about getting enough sleep for

183
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 2: your child, well, there's three things that make up healthy sleep.

184
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 2: One of them is getting enough sleep. And as we've

185
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 2: just said that there might be slight, you know, variations

186
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 2: between individuals for how much they need. The other is

187
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 2: the quality of their sleep, so that they're sleeping through

188
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,559
Speaker 2: that they don't have any sort of issues that are

189
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 2: interfering with their sleep quality like snoring and sleep happen now.

190
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 2: And then the third thing that we know contributes to

191
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 2: healthy sleep is a regular sleep pattern, so regular bedtime

192
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 2: and regular amounts of sleep. So they're the sort of

193
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,360
Speaker 2: three things that are important to think about with healthy sleep.

194
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, we're going to come back to some of

195
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: that a little bit later. Yeah, let's move the preschoolers

196
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,520
Speaker 1: on average, assuming that the quality is decent. We've got

197
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 1: a decent pattern in twenty four hour period for our

198
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,920
Speaker 1: three to five year olds, what should we be usually

199
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: looking at? Something in the ballpark?

200
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,200
Speaker 2: Off, it's a little bit less, so ten to twelve

201
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,079
Speaker 2: hours for that sort of preschool three to six year

202
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:05,760
Speaker 2: age gree okay.

203
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,160
Speaker 1: And then as we move into middle childhood kids between

204
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,200
Speaker 1: let's say primary school age five to twelve.

205
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, so ten to eleven hours.

206
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 1: So that's interesting because the preschool was right through to

207
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,680
Speaker 1: about that early adolescent period sort of hovers around that

208
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,600
Speaker 1: ten to twelve hour range ish, so there's a lot

209
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,800
Speaker 1: of obviously a lot of variability. Teenagers we talked about

210
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 1: this with my lightning round question. You said that they

211
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,280
Speaker 1: do need less sleep than the little kids.

212
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 2: Where do we land here, So for teenage kids high

213
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 2: school thirteen to eighteen years, we'd say eight to ten hours.

214
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,439
Speaker 2: This is a bit interesting, actually, because we recommend eight

215
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 2: to ten but more recently there's some research that's come

216
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 2: out in favor of sort of more nine plus hours

217
00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 2: of sleep. I guess it all just comes back for

218
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,880
Speaker 2: the child and whether they're rested with that amount of sleep.

219
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay, question for you. That is the source of a

220
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 1: little bit of conflict in my home. So I'm currently

221
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 1: currently raising my fifth fourteen year old daughter. We have

222
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,160
Speaker 1: six daughters. We've our Our youngest is turning eleven soon and

223
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 1: she will be my final teenager I'll ever have to raise.

224
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,600
Speaker 1: And it's been a delight for the most part, but

225
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 1: every now and again it's tricky, as you can imagine,

226
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 1: and a source of ongoing frustration is that the kids

227
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,840
Speaker 1: do get enough sleep during the week, that is, they're

228
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,520
Speaker 1: having appropriate amounts somewhere around about ten hours a night,

229
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 1: sometimes a fraction less. Usually about right though, But on

230
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 1: weekends they just don't want to get out of bed

231
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 1: and they're happy to sleep for fourteen hours. Geez, you've

232
00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:47,559
Speaker 1: talked about sleep patterns. What is this doing to them?

233
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,160
Speaker 1: If anything? Is it good? Do they need to have

234
00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,680
Speaker 1: that catch up sleep? Or Am I right? And they

235
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 1: should be getting out of bed first thing in the morning,

236
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 1: coming down to the beach with me for a walk

237
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,079
Speaker 1: along the beach, to swim in the ocean, getting a

238
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,439
Speaker 1: little bit of that Andrew Schuberman, sunlight hitting them as

239
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 1: soon as the sun comes over the horizon. Am I

240
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 1: two fall on here? Should I just let them sleep

241
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,559
Speaker 1: in on the weekend because they're teenagers, which is what

242
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:10,600
Speaker 1: I am doing at the moment.

243
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 2: If I'm honest, look, you're probably well, there's always there's caveats,

244
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 2: but you're probably doing the right thing in the sense

245
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 2: that I would say to parents that any sleep is

246
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 2: good sleep. Although you know, so sleep is good all right.

247
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,959
Speaker 1: As a parent, I definitely do agree with that.

248
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for the teenager. So for your daughters,

249
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,200
Speaker 2: if they are well rested during the week, they're able

250
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 2: to concentrate at school that get up in the morning,

251
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 2: they're not sort of really grumpy and tired, they're not

252
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 2: having afternoon sleeps, they're you know, you feel convinced, and

253
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,640
Speaker 2: they report that they're pretty rested and they're not having

254
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 2: trouble getting to sleep during the week then asleep in

255
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 2: on the weekend. There's no issue with that, I guess.

256
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,640
Speaker 2: The question is why are they needing that sleep? Because

257
00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 2: your daughters because.

258
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 1: They're lazy, because they well, so I think, yeah, it's

259
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: important to.

260
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,199
Speaker 2: Try and understand or to think about this a bit,

261
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,679
Speaker 2: because I would say, and you know your daughter's will aside,

262
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 2: but if you're getting fourteen hours sleep on the way,

263
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,199
Speaker 2: if you're needing fourteen hours on the weekend, is there

264
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,840
Speaker 2: a reason for that? Does that mean that they really

265
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 2: are catching up on sleep? Because the idea of catch

266
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,040
Speaker 2: up sleep is that you're not getting enough sleep during

267
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 2: the week. So I'd be less surprised if you told

268
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,040
Speaker 2: me that your daughters were getting seven hours of sleep

269
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 2: generally during the week and then needed that extra sleep

270
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 2: on the weekend, because generally catch up sleep is exactly

271
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 2: that they're making up for some sort of deficit. So

272
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,240
Speaker 2: whenever parents tell me that their child is having difficulty

273
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 2: getting up in the morning, rather than thinking about or

274
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,360
Speaker 2: rather than you know, jumping to the conclusion that they're lazy,

275
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 2: I'd be more curious about how much sleep they're getting

276
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 2: and is the sleep good quality. So my first thought

277
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 2: about a teenager who doesn't want to get up in

278
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 2: the morning is that because they haven't had a good

279
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,960
Speaker 2: night sleep. Is that because they're chronically sleep deprived? I

280
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 2: guess the other thing is, you know, there's a difference

281
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,960
Speaker 2: between genuinely sleeping in till ten eleven twelve o'clock and

282
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 2: lying in bed looking at your smartphone, you know, texting

283
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: with friends and having a good time.

284
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 1: So there could be a little bit of I mean,

285
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: there's no phones in our bedrooms apparently, but there might

286
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 1: be a little bit of that game.

287
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 2: It might be a bit of.

288
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: Doctor moy Vandeler from the Royal Children's Hospital in Melbourne,

289
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 1: I have a question for you about physical activity and

290
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 1: sleep data from around this nation. Unfortunately highlights that our

291
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: children are simply not moving their bodies. Certainly not like

292
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: we did ten twenty forty years ago. Physical activity rates

293
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: have dropped through the floor relative to where they've been historically.

294
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: Certainly neither adults nor children on average. You're getting the

295
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,080
Speaker 1: minimum daily requirement of physical activity. Surely that's impacting sleep.

296
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So we know that regular exercise really sets your

297
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 2: children up for a good night sleep, and it's so important.

298
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,480
Speaker 2: I guess what we also know or the caveat I'm

299
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:27,120
Speaker 2: full of caveats today, is that vigorous activity or vigorous

300
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,480
Speaker 2: exercise in the hour before sleep, it can be stimulating

301
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 2: or arousing, and so that isn't good for sleep. But

302
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 2: daily regular physical activity, whatever your child enjoys, is really

303
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 2: a benefit to set you up for a good night sleep.

304
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 1: Let's talk about sleep patterns then, because this is something

305
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,360
Speaker 1: that you high loted before. You said, you know that

306
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 1: you've got a sleep problem if there's an issue with

307
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 1: the quantity of sleep, the quality of sleep, or the

308
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 1: pattern of sleep. And when you talk about sleep patterns,

309
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about consistent bedtimes, consistent wake up times. That

310
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 1: the that sleep routine. So the child health pole that

311
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 1: has just had results come through shows that and this

312
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 1: really blew me away. Forty two percent of children have

313
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 1: problems with their sleep patterns. What does that tell you?

314
00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 2: We were surprised too, you know, I mean for me

315
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,640
Speaker 2: working in sleep clinic, these are the kids I see

316
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 2: I see kids with issues with their sleep, whether it's

317
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 2: falling asleep, staying asleep, being tired, not getting good sleep.

318
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 2: Kids with sleep hap now, But I was really interested

319
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 2: in the results as well, because that's almost half.

320
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,520
Speaker 1: That's massive, and.

321
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 2: I guess we you know, if you look at the

322
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,680
Speaker 2: studies from around the world, we know that about a

323
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 2: third of school age children have some sort of behavioral

324
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,760
Speaker 2: sleep issue. So I guess in terms of, you know,

325
00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 2: an issue with their sleep pattern, it was sort of

326
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 2: high than we expected. But it's interesting, and I guess

327
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 2: the purpose to the poll was then to better understand

328
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 2: what sort of issues were contributing to those problems with

329
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:12,119
Speaker 2: sleep pattern.

330
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,639
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go a little bit deeper here. Why is

331
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,280
Speaker 1: the problem there? And maybe I can tap into what

332
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,480
Speaker 1: you've highlighted in the research that was done by the RCH.

333
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 1: The study revealed that children who use screens before better

334
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: twice as likely to have difficulties sleeping. And yet you

335
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,600
Speaker 1: also found this was another statistic that staggered me, in

336
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 1: spite of all of the work that I've been doing,

337
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 1: Doctor Moyer. Forty seven percent of parents believe that screen

338
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 1: time helps kids wind down. So what I'd like to

339
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 1: understand is why why do so many parents think that?

340
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 1: I mean, this is half of parents that you were

341
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 1: surveying across a general part of the population. Why do

342
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,560
Speaker 1: half parents believe that screen time helps kids wind down?

343
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 1: Is it because they sit on the couch and watch

344
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 1: TV at night and they feel like that's helping them

345
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,239
Speaker 1: to wind down or is there something else going on?

346
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: This seems going to me.

347
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,800
Speaker 2: The pole results were really interesting because it highlighted a

348
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 2: lot of those mythbeliefs about what is helpful for sleep.

349
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 2: So you mentioned, you know, a high rate of parents

350
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 2: reporting that they thought that screens were part of a

351
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 2: winddown routine, And there were other things as well that

352
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 2: were surprising to us, for instance, that you know, the

353
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 2: majority of parents, or the majority of children, or a

354
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 2: substantial number of children rather had difficulty getting off to

355
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 2: sleep and didn't have regular bedtimes. But in terms of

356
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 2: your question about why, I think you could be right.

357
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 2: I think it could be that perhaps parents associate their

358
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,959
Speaker 2: own screen time sitting in front of the TV and

359
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 2: enjoying a movie or a program before bed as being

360
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,199
Speaker 2: a typical windown thing, and that somehow that translates or

361
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 2: is similar to a child on their phone or their

362
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 2: device or watching TV before bed. I mean, there's a

363
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 2: lot in the media about the growth in sort of

364
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,360
Speaker 2: screen use amongst young people, and I guess the thing

365
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 2: about using different screens, particularly for teenagers, is that they're

366
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,480
Speaker 2: generally introduced as an education tool, you know, so there

367
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:28,400
Speaker 2: are benefits to our young people having screen access. But

368
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: I think what we know as fleet specialists is that

369
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 2: the light, the blue light that's emitted from screens, really

370
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,879
Speaker 2: can make it problematic to falling asleep because that light

371
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,280
Speaker 2: switches off the release of our sleepy hormone, which is

372
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 2: called melatonin, And so any sort of exposure to screens

373
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: in that sort of blue light that comes from phones

374
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 2: and iPads video games can reduce the melatonin secretion and

375
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 2: make it difficult to fall asleep. I guess the other

376
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 2: thing relates not only to that sort of more physiological

377
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 2: effective screens, but also the fact the content of what

378
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: you're watching is important to so kids that are on

379
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,120
Speaker 2: phones and iPads, you know, engaging with friends. That sort

380
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 2: of interaction can be quite stimulating and really doesn't set

381
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 2: you up for that wind down period before bed. I

382
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: guess the noise and the light that comes from phones

383
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 2: is another reason why we think that why we think

384
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: having screens at their time and overnight isn't a great idea.

385
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 2: But to look back to the question you ask me,

386
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 2: which is why do parents think that we sort of

387
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: think about where do we get our information from. We

388
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: don't have children and get some sort of little booklet

389
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 2: on all the things to do with child health and parenting,

390
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 2: and so, I mean, people get the information from lots

391
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 2: of different sources. And you know, most parents are just

392
00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 2: trying to obviously do the best they can with their kids.

393
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,920
Speaker 2: But I guess what the poll really revealed is that

394
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: there's a lot of misconceptions about sleep, and some of

395
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 2: those misconceptions can lead to behaviors and sleep that set

396
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 2: them up, I mean, in children, that set them up

397
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: to have an issue with their sleep.

398
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,399
Speaker 1: I feel like screens are really at the core of

399
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: everything else that you found. Yeah, I mean another stat

400
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: that came out of it. You found that teens sleep

401
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: patterns are dramatically different from younger kids. Forty one percent

402
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: of teens feel tight in the morning compared to twenty

403
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: seven percent of younger kids. I'd note that you didn't

404
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 1: ask parents because you would have found that ninety nine

405
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 1: point nine percent of parents feel tight in the morning.

406
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 1: But maybe let's go a little bit deeper here, if

407
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: we can stand outside of the screen issue. Clearly, teens

408
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: are much more likely to be on a screen at

409
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: night than younger children. There are other biological factors here, though,

410
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 1: aren't there, Like the adolescent hormonal and neurological architecture is

411
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 1: different for younger children, and that has some impact on sleep.

412
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, So I mean it's a normal part of

413
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: teenage development that there's changes in hormones. And I think

414
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 2: it's very normal and natural that there are changes in

415
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: our body clock, or changes in the body clock of teenagers,

416
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: and that's circadian body clock, if you like. That directs

417
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 2: all sorts of activities within the body, and one of

418
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,199
Speaker 2: them is sleep. And what happens for teenagers is that

419
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: naturally they want to stay up later and they want

420
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 2: to sleep in later. So it's part of healthy, normal

421
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: teenage development that teenagers are going to want to stay

422
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 2: awake later than their younger siblings.

423
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a source of great stress and struggle for

424
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: any parent of a teenager because there's this thing you

425
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: get used to the kids for the first ten twelve

426
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: years of life. You put the kids to bed, and

427
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: then you go and have adult time because the kids

428
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: have gone to bed. I mean, it's wonderful when they

429
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: go to bed at six or six thirty, and as

430
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: they get older, it gets verily later until it's seven

431
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: and seven thirty and eight o'clock, and then they kind

432
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: of hit thirteen fourteen, and by then you're older as

433
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: well as an adult, and you kind of you're already

434
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: forbett at about five thirty, let's be honest, but you

435
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: push through because the kids. We got to a point,

436
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 1: as I'm sure any parent of older adolescents has, where

437
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: we say good night to the kids and then we

438
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: go to bed and close the door and they just

439
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 1: put themselves a bit because we can't stay up any later.

440
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: This is a really common challenge that parents have. You

441
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,719
Speaker 1: so like, promise you're going to go to bed by

442
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: nine thirty, because it's nine o'clock and I am tapping out.

443
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: I'm done, yea moya. Let's sort of move towards a

444
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: couple of conversation points that have been quite striking for me.

445
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 1: I'm not a caffeine consumer myself, so I only drink water.

446
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: That's one of my personal health rules. I just have

447
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: a thing. I'm not going to consume my calories in

448
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 1: my fluids. I want to eat my calories, not drink them,

449
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: so I only drink water. However, lots of people love

450
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: their coffees. Your research has shown a strong connection between

451
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: caffeine consumption that happens after lunch and sleep difficulties. And

452
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: we know that many parents, as the kids move into

453
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: their mid and late teens, are increasingly comfortable with their

454
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: kids drinking coffees. What's your advice around that?

455
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're right, So, I mean, so firstly, I

456
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: guess what the poll data showed was at about ten

457
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: I think it might have been eleven percent of children

458
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 2: are consuming caffeine containing products regularly during the week. And

459
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 2: I guess that's so. You mentioned coffee, and coffee is

460
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 2: the obviously.

461
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,479
Speaker 1: The energy drinks as well.

462
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 2: I guess that's right. So, I mean energy drinks that

463
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: contain caffeine. There's lots of sort of new sort of

464
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: more well, I think they're being marketed as sort of healthy,

465
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: and it is to a coffee like Matcher or green Tea,

466
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: you know that are not only well that are found

467
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: those sorts of flavors as well, found and lots of products, chocolate,

468
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: all sorts of things that contain caffeine. So I guess

469
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: what we know is that caffeine takes about six hours.

470
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: Well it's active in your system for about six hours.

471
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: So the first thing to say really is that if

472
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 2: your child is having issues falling asleep, and if your

473
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: child is consuming caffeine containing products, it would be worth

474
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: looking at the timing of those of eating and drinking

475
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: those products, because having them before lunch is probably going

476
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: to have less impact on their sleep. I think the

477
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: key thing though, is probably awareness that there are many

478
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: things that you wouldn't think contain caffeine that do. I

479
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: think that's probably one of the issues here. And if

480
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 2: you look at energy drinks for instance, some of them

481
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: have caffeine and some of them do not have caffeine.

482
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: So I think the interesting thing to think about the

483
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: teenagers and energy drinks is why are they drinking those?

484
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 2: And is it a bit off? I was going to ask,

485
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 2: you know, bi directional? Is it that you know they're tired,

486
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: so they're consuming them and they're drinking caffeine and that's contributing.

487
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 2: It may be the case or it may just be

488
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: that they enjoy drinking those drinks.

489
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: I have a provocative question for you around caffeine. I'm

490
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: a fan of listening to podcasts about health. There's a

491
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: guy called Steve Bartlett who does the Diary of a CEO,

492
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: and he's always having the latest health expert on human

493
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: I mentioned before. Everyone knows that Andrew Hubman's podcast is

494
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: the world's leading health podcast. And it seems that everyone

495
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: has a different opinion about caffeine, whether it's beneficial or not.

496
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: Some people say stay away from it, don't have it

497
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: at all. Other people say it's the wonder drug and

498
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: you need more of it in your life. It seems

499
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: to be a really provocative topic. I'm not asking about

500
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: adults here. I'm genuinely concerned because I do regularly see

501
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: parents willingly and joyfully handing caffeine products over to their kids,

502
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: whether it's on a Saturday morning at sport or wherever

503
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: it might be. Kids in caffeine, yes or no?

504
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 2: I would say no because there are many products. If

505
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 2: it's just a sort of about a taste or an experience,

506
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: and there there's probably an equivalent product that doesn't have

507
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 2: caffeine in it. Beyond the impact on sleep, and you know,

508
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: there's probably at low levels no other negative health impacts

509
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: of caffeine. But I guess the question is why does

510
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: a child need to be consuming caffeine? So, I mean

511
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: that's somewhat of a personal view, I think strictly related

512
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: to sleep and sleep problems. The key thing is, you know,

513
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: if a child is having issues falling asleep and you

514
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: have a look at what they're eating and drinking and

515
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: there's something caffeine related that as a parent, you think

516
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: you still want to let your child have, then give

517
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: it in the morning, not the afternoon. But yeah, I

518
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: mean it's also I guess it's a cultural thing as well,

519
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: justin because you know there you know, we think about

520
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: Italian culture and families that you know, desserts like tiramassou.

521
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: There's so it's sort of hard to say yes or

522
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 2: no when it comes to these sorts of things because

523
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: I think it's a it's a bit of a personal

524
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: one for families, and I think a lot of the

525
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: advice that we give about sleep is really it's very

526
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: important for families that are struggling with sleep in you know,

527
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 2: sleep issues in their child. But again, I guess you

528
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 2: asked me about your child who is sleeping on the weekend.

529
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: You know, if they're otherwise healthy, happy, they're getting enough sleep,

530
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: probably we tend to not be so concerned about sleeping

531
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: in so it always comes back to whether there's actually

532
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: a problem and whether the child and parent are identifying

533
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: something as a problem.

534
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, eating, you mentioned tramsou. I don't know why I

535
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: mentioned m Well, it's loaded with and sugar.

536
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

537
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: I mean, what I'm really hearing you say is if

538
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: you want to have a good night's sleep, you want

539
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: to reduce the things that are going to be stimulatory

540
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: and that are going to keep you awake. So caffeine

541
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: and sugar, you probably want to ease off on that

542
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: and don't load the kids up with a plate full

543
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: of anything like that when it's around bedtime.

544
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: I should actually say, one of the other main issues

545
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: for people in terms of you know, kids or teenagers

546
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: that have insomnia, is a relationship between having a sleep

547
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: issue and being anxious or having some sort of problem

548
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: with you.

549
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: I was going to ask, and yeah, yeah, well caffeine

550
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: it might, you know, do a good job at keeping

551
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: keeping you awake, but can also make people feel anxious,

552
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: so you know you would wonder whether.

553
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Teenagers are more susceptible to those effects as well.

554
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, yeah, great, great advice. Okay, here's my last

555
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: question for you. A lot of parents will be listening

556
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: to this and saying, my kids are sleeping. Okay, Every

557
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: now and again, there's a rough night, but in the

558
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: main things are okay. Based on all of the research

559
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: that you've got, and given that we know that sleep

560
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: is probably one of the most important factors for good health,

561
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: full stop, period, end of story. What would you say

562
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: is the single most important change that families could make

563
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: tonight if they wanted to improve their kids' sleep.

564
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: I think the wine down the PREBD routine and for

565
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: that to be a relaxing activity.

566
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: I'm laughing because I'm so bad at this.

567
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,479
Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, having a regular bedtime and

568
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 2: getting enough hours of sleep in general, it would be

569
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: two pieces of gold, I think for most families. And

570
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: to have a regular bedtime and to get enough sleep,

571
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: the focus should be on that hour before fleep. That

572
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: that's doing something whatever it is for your child or

573
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: your family that is relaxing and sets them up for

574
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 2: a good night's sleep. So generally screen free would be

575
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: you ask for one tip and now I think.

576
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Vive. Now here's what I'm hearing. The basics are, get

577
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: the kids off screens now before bed, have a nice

578
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: and easy relaxing wine down, get them to go to

579
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: bed at a consistent time and at a reasonable hour

580
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: so they can have the quality and the quality that

581
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: they need. That's what I'm feeling is really at the

582
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: core of your message.

583
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: It's really important if a.

584
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: Parent is worried that the child isn't getting enough sleep.

585
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: Is it the sort of thing that you just let

586
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: let nature take its course, like they'll mature through it,

587
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: they'll be fine. Or do you recommend going and getting

588
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: some support, some help from a medical practitioner, from a

589
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: doctor around this.

590
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: I think that's a really important question. Justin so, if

591
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: you have done everything you can to try and set

592
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: up for a regular bedtime, you think that your child

593
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: is getting enough sleep and they're still tired during the day,

594
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: or you think there's some behaviors that are aboutness and

595
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: yet they're getting in our sleep, that would be a

596
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: reason to go and see your GP. The other thing

597
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: is if you've tried really hard to try and support

598
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: your child to get to sleep, and then've got an issue,

599
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: for instance, with insomnia and really struggling to get off

600
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: to sleep, there might be something else going on. It's

601
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: not all necessarily about good sleep hygiene. So for instance,

602
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: young people with anxiety can certainly have issues with their sleep,

603
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: and often the way they present is with insomnia. So

604
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: I think if you're really worried about your child's sleep

605
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: and you've sort of exhausted all your strategies at home,

606
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: it's definitely worth going to have a chat to your GP,

607
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 2: and you might need a referral to a specialist. I

608
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: guess the final thing to say is we haven't mentioned snoring,

609
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: and I'd just like to put a plug in.

610
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: I guess that put a plug in.

611
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: That snoring is never regular snoring. So if your child

612
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: snores more than three nights a week, that's not normal

613
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: and you should go and have a chat to your

614
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: GP about it because your child might have issues with sleep.

615
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: At here, this is such a fascinating conversation. I could

616
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: talk sleep all day, but our time is well spent.

617
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: I've been speaking with doctor Moyer Vandler, who is a

618
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: respiratory and sleep specialist at the Royal Children's Hospital in

619
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: Melbourne about the Children's Health Pole. We will link to

620
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: more details about that pole and the findings in the

621
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: show notes. Doctor Moyert, thank you so much for sharing

622
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: your time and your expertise on the Happy Families Podcast today.

623
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Justin the g.

624
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: The Happy Family Podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

625
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: Bridge Media and if you'd like more information and resources

626
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: about making your family happier, you'll find them at happy

627
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: families dot com dot a you