1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Hello, listener, it's Amantha here. It is a big day 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: for me today as my fourth book, The Health Habit, 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: is out in bookstores today, and to celebrate, I'm releasing 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: a couple of bonus episodes of How I Work Today 5 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: is Part one. So I find that I get so 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: many questions from listeners and other people that I encounter 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: in my work about the process of writing a book, 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: everything from how do you get a book deal, through 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: to how do you find time to write, through to 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: what happens when the book is actually out in the world. 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: So my partner Neo Applin, who has been by my 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: side the entire way that I've been working on The 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: Health Habit, has kindly popped into the podcast studio today 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: to ask me a bunch of questions. To answer all 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: of your questions, and in Part two, which is coming 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: out tomorrow, I'm going to be talking about my own 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: health habits and health struggle and how I have personally 18 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: applied the strategies that I write about in The Health Habit. 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: So today, if you've ever wondered what on earth goes 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: on behind a book kidding bookshelves, I'm going to give 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 1: you a whats and all view my name is doctor 22 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and founder of behavior 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: change consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work a 24 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: show about how to help you get so much more 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: out of the hours in your day. So I'm sitting 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: in the studio today with my partner Neo, and I'm 27 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: actually going to hand the interviewing reins over to Neo 28 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: today to ask me a few questions. 29 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: Hi. Everyone, Neo here Amantha. This is weird me interviewing 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: you on your podcast, but let's just roll with it anyway. Okay, So, 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: how did you come up with the idea for the 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: health habit? 33 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: Well, I'm up with it a few months after time 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Wise coming out, so it was back in twenty twenty two, 35 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: and I actually felt quite a bit of pressure to 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: come up with the next big book idea. And I 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: think it was because time Wise was my third book, 38 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: but it was my first book with Penguin Random House, 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: and I felt like, oh, I need to come up 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: with my next idea while time Wise is doing well 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: and it was selling really well at the time, because 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: otherwise maybe they'll just forget about me and I'll never 43 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: get the chance to work with Penguin, who were just 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: such an amazing publisher. Ever again, so I was putting 45 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on myself and I was coming 46 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: up with ideas, but I found that the ideas were 47 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: the kind of the easy to do and as you 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: would say, the phoning it in ideas. Like, for example, 49 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: one idea was simply a time wise too, because I've 50 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: learned so many strategies through hosting how I work that 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: they could easily fell a whole other book. But I 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: don't know that just just kind of felt a bit 53 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: lazy doing something like that. 54 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: Is that because you felt like you've kind of tapped 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: out the time wise type productivity part or is it 56 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: more that you wanted to do something different. 57 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I finished my work in productivity, 58 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: and I'm still so passionate about it, but I did 59 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: want to do something different, and the idea for the 60 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: health habit came. I think it must have been about 61 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: September or October in twenty twenty two, and I remember 62 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: I was just like I was in the shower one 63 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: morning and just thinking about ideas, and I had this 64 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: thought emerge where like every year there's so many books 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: about health and fitness and being your best healthier self 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: that that come out, and I've bought so many of 67 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: those books. And as you know, Neo, I am obsessed 68 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: with health. It is my number one value. I think 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: about it so much. But I actually don't really work 70 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: in the health space, like my work is largely in 71 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: productivity and innovation. And I was thinking about all of 72 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: these health books that come out and have the latest 73 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: fad diet or you know, the mast ways to improve 74 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: your fitness routine or all these sorts of things. But 75 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: they keep coming out, presumably because people read the book 76 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: and maybe they try applying some of the strategies, but 77 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: nothing sticks. And then in the meantime, there's this whole 78 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: other section of the book store that is all about 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: behavior change and how to create habits, how to change yourself, 80 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, often with a psychological bent. And I thought, 81 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: why haven't those two genres actually crossed over, because I 82 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: think that would be really powerful. What if you could 83 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: combine the latest insights science around how to live a 84 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: healthier life combined with the psychology of how to make 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: those new habits stick. And that was the idea. Do 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: you remember when I came up with that idea? 87 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: I do. I thought it was perfect because so many 88 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 2: people know what to do, but they don't do it. Heck, 89 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: I'm the same as anyone else. I know I shouldn't 90 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: have too much chocolate, but I love my chocolate. So yeah, 91 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: how do you get people to change? And that was 92 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 2: the thing that kind I gave you a spark. I 93 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: remember the time you were going through that, So you 94 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: had the idea, how did you pitch that to Penguin? 95 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: Well, how it works when you're pitching a book idea 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: to a publisher is it's kind of like if you've 97 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: ever worked on like a sales deck or a proposal 98 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: for a client or something like that where you're trying 99 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: to win new work. It's kind of like that, but 100 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: for a book. So I have a template that I 101 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: use when I'm writing a book proposal. It was the 102 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: same template that got me the deal for time Wise, 103 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: where essentially what you're doing is you're talking about firstly 104 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: like why this, why does this matter? Why is now 105 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: the right time to be talking about this? And why 106 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: are you the right person to be writing about this idea? 107 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: You then want to go through almost like a mock 108 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: up of a table of contents, like what will this 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: book actually look like? Which is really helpful when the publisher, 110 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: because it's generally a team of people that are making 111 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: these decisions, are just trying to get a feel for 112 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: what are they actually buying. Then something that I also 113 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: learned to do, and this was from some advice I 114 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: had from an agent in America, is to put together 115 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: a marketing plan. So I think it's quite unusual for 116 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: writers or authors in general to think about marketing. They're 117 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: generally consumed with the content and the writing, which kind 118 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: of makes sense because they're a writer. But what publishers 119 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: like to see and what matters a lot in their 120 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: decision making is how are people actually going to find 121 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: out about this book? So I thought a lot around 122 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: would what would a hypothetical marketing plan look like for 123 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: the health habit? And also in a book proposal, there's 124 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: typically a section on what are the I think the 125 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: term is competitive titles or competitive titles, So what are 126 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: examples of books that are kind of like this one 127 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: but are different and have sold really well? So I 128 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: put together a proposal. I did that quite quickly, and 129 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: I sent that off to my editor at Penguin, and 130 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: then I waited and you're right, remember this I waited. 131 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: Like the time Wise deal came about I think within 132 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: three or four weeks of me sending the proposal, but 133 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: you might remember this one took a few months, and I. 134 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: Think it was also around the Christmas time as well. 135 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: A question for you with a proposal, did you put 136 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: together a chapter or two to prove that you know 137 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: that not only you can write that they are knew that, 138 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: of course, but that you can write about health and 139 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: that it'd be a compelling book. 140 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: I did. I did write a few sample chapters to 141 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: give them a feel for what the content would be like. 142 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: So I know that one of the things that appeal 143 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: to my publishers at Penguin is that they really liked 144 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: the kind of bite size format that I'd put together 145 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: for time Wise, and they wanted something similar, and well, 146 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: I didn't want to repeat the exact same format, and 147 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: the format for the Health Habit is certainly different. It's 148 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: quite a different structure. It is full of bite sized 149 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: pieces that you could consume individually and apply very easily. 150 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: So that was definitely a thing. But yeah, I do 151 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: remember it was December in twenty twenty two that I 152 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: got off with the deal. I remember that day very 153 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: clearly because I felt like every week I would ask 154 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: my agent, Kathy Baker, have we heard anything from Penguin? 155 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: Have we heard anything from Penguin? And I really had 156 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: no idea whether they were came to do another book 157 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: with me. And I remember in December I was at 158 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: my Inventium staff Christmas party and I got a text 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 1: from Kathy at around lunchtime saying, check your email Penguinery In. 160 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: And I was so excited. You were the first person 161 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: that I called, and I was incredibly excited. And then 162 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: I saw when they wanted to publish it, and they 163 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: wanted to publish it in January twenty twenty four, and 164 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: that is a really short turnaround time. And it also 165 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: meant that I needed to research, write, and polish a 166 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: manuscript within about five months. 167 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: Now, I remember that. And you were not not concerned, 168 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: like you had a plan. What was the plan? I 169 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: was there. 170 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: I was somewhat concerned, but I also just applied a 171 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: lot of optimism to it because I I just thought 172 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: it completely makes sense why they want to release it 173 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: in January, because it is a bit of a new year, 174 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: new you like fresh start kind of books, So I 175 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: got the timing, and I wanted to make that timing work, 176 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: but I was very nervous because there was so much research. 177 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: Like I've literally read through hundreds and hundreds of journal papers, 178 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: I interviewed, and like had to research experts I wanted 179 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: to interview, although a lot of them I've been following 180 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 1: for years, and then I had to reach out to 181 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: them and schedule interviews, do the interviews, dissect the interviews 182 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: for the health habits that I talk about. So logistically, 183 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: there was actually quite a lot to do. And typically 184 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: with nonfiction books, you're contracted to write about sixty to 185 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: seventy thousand words, so there's also just a lot of 186 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: writing to do and a lot of editing of your 187 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: own work to do. 188 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: So how did you do the writing? I remember you 189 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: started from was it January onwards? 190 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? I started from Ananuary and I said to myself, 191 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: I am going to write a thousand words every day, 192 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: and that wasn't including all the reading and the research 193 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: and the interviewing and so forth. Because there were some 194 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: parts that I could write and where I was already 195 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: on top of the research or stories that I share 196 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: in the book where it's not about research, it's about 197 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: constructing a story. So I knew that I could write 198 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: a thousand words a day, and I thought, if I 199 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: can do that, then I can get a half decent 200 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: draft completed in a couple of months, which then would 201 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: leave three months for polishing and editing before submitting the 202 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: manuscript in May. So there were actually a few strategies 203 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: that I write about in the health habit that I applied. So, 204 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: for example, I'm a big fan of temptation bundling, which 205 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: is basically where you pair the unpleasant or difficult activity 206 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: something pleasurable, and I developed a routine where and not 207 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: that I find writing unpleasurable. I actually love the process 208 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: of writing, but when you have to write to deadline 209 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: and you've got very tight goals there, and sometimes it 210 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: can just feel very overwhelming. And there were certainly many 211 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: days where the last thing I wanted to do was write, 212 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: but I had to write. It was very helpful using 213 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: temptation bundling. And look, this is really simple, but I 214 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: love coffee, but I limit myself to one a day, 215 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: and so starting my writing day and I'd always start 216 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: writing first thing in the morning and pairing that with 217 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: a coffee as simple as that sounds, that was just 218 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: quite motivating to get going and to you know, not 219 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: be staring at a blinking cursor. Something else that I 220 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: did is I used a streak board, which is quite simply. 221 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: It was a whiteboard in my office where I stuck 222 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: printouts of calendar months, and every day I hit my 223 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: one thousand words, I would do a big X, and 224 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: the aim was to not break the streak. 225 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: So street boards. 226 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: There's lots of research around the effectiveness of street boards 227 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: in terms of motivating you to keep on going. But 228 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: inevitably there are days when things just don't go to plan, 229 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: and so another strategy that I used is giving myself 230 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: hall passes. Again, tons of research about this that I 231 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: took about in the book, where knowing that you've got 232 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: the flexibility to not hit your goal once or twice 233 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: a week actually makes you significantly more likely to hit 234 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: your goal. So that was very, very useful. There were 235 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: plenty of other strategies, but that's probably enough for now, 236 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: and there's more about all those strategies in the Health Habit. 237 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 2: Okay, so you've written the book that took the five months, 238 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: and I remember you were so happy when you finally 239 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: got that done. What happens after you've got the first 240 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: draft and I know you've only got five months to 241 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 2: write that in because it needs to be edited and 242 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: and you've got cleanup and the book needs to be published. 243 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: But when you've got a draft, what happens with it? Then? 244 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: So much I feel like the like you can break 245 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: down the process of creating a book into two acts. 246 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: So the first act is creating the book. The second 247 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: act is marketing and publicizing and selling the book. But 248 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: within that that first act, there's the writing the book 249 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: and there's the producing the first manuscript. And look, this 250 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: process does differ a lot if you're self publishing or 251 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: going with a smaller publisher where there are just limited resources. 252 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: But Penguin Random House, I think they're the biggest publisher 253 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: in the world. I feel like I should know that, 254 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: but they're certainly very very big here in Australia. And 255 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: so editing a manuscript is a major process. And what 256 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: I learned with time Wise, and again the same thing 257 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: happened for the Health Habit, is that there are actually 258 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: two phases of the edit. So the first phase of 259 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: an edit is called a structural edit, where the kind 260 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: of the big picture editor, if you like, go through 261 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: the manuscript and make suggestions for you know, quite significant 262 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: changes like if the structure is not flowing, or if 263 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: different sections need to be placed in different a different order, 264 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: or if some sections need to be cut completely. And 265 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: I was really fortunate with time Wise in that the 266 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: structural edit was very very light, so my editor was 267 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: really happy with the structure. And thankfully the same thing 268 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: happened with the Health Habit where there actually wasn't too 269 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: much of a process there after the editor or there 270 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: are actually two editors that looked at it. We're really 271 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: happy with that. Then the next stage is the copy edit, 272 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: and this is where someone with an amazing attention to detail, 273 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: who is the wonderful Clive Hebad at Penguin Random House, 274 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: who copy edited time Wise and also the Health Habit, 275 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: goes through the manuscript with a fine tooth. Come down 276 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: to things like, for example, I sometimes use the word 277 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: got or stuff or being in the way that I write, 278 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: and Clive doesn't like those words. They're not good. So 279 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: basically you need to substitute all of those things as 280 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: well as like grammatical errors and typos and stuff. He 281 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: will also look, for example, if say I've used the 282 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: same adjective, for example, twice in a paragraph, which again 283 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: is not a great experience for a reader, but it's 284 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: such a small detail. So the thing that I love 285 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: about the editing process at Penguin, and particularly working with Clive, 286 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: is that just the attention to detail is so great. 287 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: And then a couple of other things happen as well. 288 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: So there are graphs and charts in the book to 289 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: illustrate some of the studies that I talk about. So 290 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: it's up to me as the author to decide what 291 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: are the things that I want to visualize. The editors 292 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: will also chip in, and then there are also illustrations 293 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: by the wonderful Sarah Firth, who also did illustrations for 294 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: time Wise. And again, as an author, I'm going through 295 00:16:57,920 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: and going where are the things where I want to 296 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: highlight point with a visual and the editors are also 297 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: doing that as well. So it's quite a massive process. 298 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: So the editing process, after submitting the first draft of 299 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: the manuscript went until I think about October or so 300 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: from memory, although I think we were still making minor 301 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: changes in November. Because the other thing is that it's 302 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 1: very typical for nonfiction authors these days, and particularly like 303 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: celebrity nonfiction authors and also nonfiction authors that have a 304 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: podcast where people kind of I guess like familiar with 305 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: your voice is that you also do the audiobook recording. 306 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember the week or I 307 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: did the audiobook recording mm hmm. 308 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you pretty much didn't talk to us much for 309 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: the week and it was all looking after your throat 310 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: and things like that. 311 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. It is an intense week. I 312 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: remember it from time wise. I cannot think of harder 313 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: work that I did last year that was like more 314 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: exhausting than recording the audio book. So you basically in 315 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: a studio and it's like it's a tiny room that's 316 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: all soundproof, there's no natural light. There's there is a 317 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: little window where you can see the sound engineer, who 318 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: is in a separate room to the one that you're in. 319 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: You are staring at your words on an iPad and 320 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: scrolling through as you're reading it. You literally you can't 321 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: lose focus because you have to concentrate on reading and 322 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: you also have to bring in energy and intonation and everything, 323 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: and typically doing that in a shift of about four hours, 324 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: So it's about four four hour shifts. 325 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 2: I think I did over how many days? 326 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? Over four days, so just insane, and then like, yeah, 327 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: I literally didn't talk to you or my daughter Frankie 328 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: in those afternoons and evenings to preserve my voice. 329 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 2: Are you reading through the book? Do you find that 330 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: there's a little bits you wish you could have added 331 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: to because the book is baked by that time. Do 332 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: you feel pretty comfortable as you're reading it or you're going, yeah, 333 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 2: this is good or no? 334 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: I remember I remember coming home to you one day 335 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: just going, oh my gosh, I think the book might 336 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: be terrible. Ah, and just like being filled with self doubt. 337 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that. 338 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: I do. That's why I asked. I imagine that's the 339 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: case though, because how often does anyone really go through 340 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: all of their work and read it out. You know, 341 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 2: it's going through with a fine tooth comb. So I 342 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: think that's that's something next level that every author who 343 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: needs to write their own book has to go through 344 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 2: some kind of pain. Okay, so after you did that, 345 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: you then have a finished manuscript, you've got an audiobook recording, 346 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: and then it's just waiting time from them until today. 347 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: That's right. So the book is available today, which feels 348 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: very weird. There are some kind of cool points along 349 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: the journey. So actually seeing my book in hard copy, 350 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: which I think I saw maybe a month ago for 351 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: the first time, which is kind of surreal. But I 352 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: think the most surreal and exciting part is actually seeing 353 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: the book in bookshops. That there's something very very cool, 354 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: particularly when you're a knowledge worker like we both are, 355 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: and often we're producing things that are intangible. There's something 356 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: very exciting about producing a thing that can be picked 357 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: up and held and flicked through and looked at and 358 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: physically shared, and then seeing that in a shop that 359 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: people can go to that you don't know when they 360 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: can buy it, and that's just really surreal. But yeah, 361 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: it's a strange day. I remember a couple of months 362 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: ago and I was messaging Hugh Van kyleen Berg about 363 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: something I can't remember what it was, and I told 364 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: him that i'd send him a copy of my new book, 365 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: and I remember he left me a voice memo saying 366 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: how are you feeling? Because I remember, like for him, 367 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: he's written a couple of books, and he was talking 368 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: about the feeling of just self doubt that comes over 369 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: you where you're just questioning whether what you wrote was 370 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: it actually any good? And at the time, I think 371 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: this was before my audiobook recording, I was like, no, 372 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: I think it's all right. I think it's okay. But 373 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: then just as certainly during the audiobook recording and even now, 374 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, my gosh, is anyone gonna like it? 375 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: Is it any good? Like I mean, I wrote it 376 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: to help people and make people's lives better, but oh 377 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: my god, is it going to do that? And I 378 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: just I feel full of self doubt. And it's this 379 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: weird thing because so much time passes where you're working 380 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: on the manuscript, and you know, really there's only a 381 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: handful of people that have read it. There's obviously people 382 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: at Penguin that have read it, the very kind people 383 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: that have provided testimonials you've read it, and a few 384 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: people from the media have read it, but really not 385 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: like pure readers have not read it. And it's just 386 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: really weird. I kind of forget that real people are 387 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: going to be reading this book, and that is really 388 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: scary and overwhelming to think about. But also part of 389 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: me is a bit excited to hopefully get some feedback 390 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: from people soon. 391 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 2: And hopefully change some people's lives. 392 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 1: I suppose that would be excellent. 393 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: Even in small ways, like I've taken on quite a 394 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: few little habits, and I think it's made a difference 395 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: to me, So I hope it does. 396 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: Tell us. 397 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: All right, so you've got the book out, Does that 398 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: mean you're in this phase two? And what's this phase two? 399 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: What do you need to do for that? Yeah? 400 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: So phase two is all about publicity and marketing and sales, 401 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: and so you know, as an author, it's no good 402 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 1: putting all this work into producing the work. And really 403 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: so much work, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 404 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 1: hours goes into producing the work. But really, like I 405 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: now need to shift my mindset because I need to 406 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: put just as much work into marketing and promoting the book. 407 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: And that's like as much as like, you know, I 408 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: quite enjoy doing media interviews and sharing insights and having 409 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: chats with people I love, you know, being a guest 410 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: on podcasts for example, there's also some parts that really 411 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: irk me about the process. So I feel like everyone 412 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: and particularly publicists that I work with, tell me you 413 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: need to be more active on social media. I really 414 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: dislike social media. I dislike how it changes my behavior 415 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: when I, for example, have social media apps on my 416 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: mobile phone, which I typically don't. But at the moment, 417 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: I'm about to embark on a three month experiment where 418 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to post three times a week at least 419 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn and Instagram, just for three months while I'm 420 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: heavily involved in promoting the health habit, and I'm just 421 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: going to say what happens at the end of the experiment. 422 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: You know, already I feel like my behavior is I've 423 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: got Instagram and LinkedIn on my mobile phone. I never 424 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: do that, but already I feel like, oh God, I'm checking. 425 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: I'm checking it several times a day because I feel 426 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: like I need to, you know, be monitoring comments and 427 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: thinking of content and all all this sort of stuff 428 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: that I really really hate. But I'm doing it anyway, 429 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. 430 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: Well, I suppose one last question for you from ay, 431 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 2: Are you thinking about doing a health habit too? What's next? 432 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: I have not tenned my attention to thinking about what 433 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: is next. I've got ideas, but I actually feel less 434 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: pressure this time. Hopefully the health habit will be well 435 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: received and it will have an impact and it will 436 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: sell well, and then I think I'll feel more comfortable 437 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: that oh maybe I can, you know, even wait a 438 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: year before thinking what is the next book that I 439 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: want to write? And you know, hopefully the wonderful people 440 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: at Penguin Random House very happy to have me back 441 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: on board. So I'm just trying to relieve the pressure 442 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: and just focus on getting The Health Habit out to everyone. 443 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: Awesome, Well, thank you for me interviewing you on your 444 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: own podcast, which is very strained, but it's great because 445 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: I've been part of this but not really in it, 446 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: like I'm not seeing it from your perspective, So thanks. 447 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: And thanks for stepping into the interviewer scene. Neio, thank 448 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in today. I am going 449 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: to be back in your ears tomorrow talking about my 450 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 1: own health habits and struggles and how I've personally applied 451 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: to the strategies that I write about in The Health Habit. 452 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: And of course, if you are looking for a good 453 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: book to read, maybe you've got some New Year's goals 454 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: or resolutions that you're looking to conquer in the area 455 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: of health, then I would absolutely love it if you 456 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: pick up The Health Habit wherever you get books from 457 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love to ask 458 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: a favor. Click follow on the podcast app that you're 459 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: listening to this on, and if you're feeling really generous, 460 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: leave a review for the show. Following this podcast and 461 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,959 Speaker 1: leaving reviews helps How I Work find new listeners, and 462 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: your support is one of the things that makes this 463 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: podcast possible. Thank you for sharing part of your day 464 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: with me by listening to How I Work. If you're 465 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: keen for more tips on how to work better, connect 466 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. 467 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded 468 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: on the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of 469 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being 470 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: able to work and live on this beautiful land, and 471 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present 472 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium with 473 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,399 Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this 474 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: episode was Liam Riordan, and thank you to Martin Nimba 475 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better 476 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise.