1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres, 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday, 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: the thirtieth of November. 9 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: The Nationals have come out saying they oppose a First 11 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Nation's Voice to Parliament. 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 4: We believe in empowering local Indigenous communities, not creating another 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 4: liar of bureaucracy here in. 14 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: Canberra, prompting a debate between those who oppose it and. 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 5: Why should I, as an Indigenous Australian be governed under 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 5: a separate entity than the rest of Australia because of 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 5: my race. 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: And those advocating for a First Nation's voice to Parliament. 19 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 6: This is about granting fairness to Indigenous people, the simple 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 6: manners that we should be asked before decisions are made 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 6: about us. 22 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: In today's zeep Dive, We're going to catch you up 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: on where we're at on the path to the first 24 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: Nation's voice to Parliament and whether the national stance will 25 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: impact the upcoming referendum. 26 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 7: But first, Sam take us through the headlights. 27 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 3: Emotion to censure Scott Morrison for secretly swearing himself into 28 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: multiple ministries. Whilst Prime Minister is expected to be tabled 29 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 3: to Federal Parliament today, the Opposition, which Morrison is a 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: part of, has indicated it won't support the motion, with 31 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 3: leader Peter Dunnen calling it quote an opportunistic swipe by 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: the government. 33 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: The new South Wales government will be canceling over thirty 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: three thousand fines that were related to breaches of COVID 35 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: nineteen restrictions issued throughout the pandemic. It's been found that 36 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: some COVID penalty notices were invalid because they didn't adequately 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: detail the offense committed. 38 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 3: UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has declared the golden era 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 3: of relations with China is over. Whilst at a banquet 40 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 3: in London, Sunak said China poses a quote systemic challenge 41 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 3: to our values and interests. He did warn against disregarding 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: their influence in global affairs however, particularly in the economic 43 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 3: landscape and in the fight against climate change. 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 7: And the good news. 45 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: The Australian men's cricket team will open their summer Test 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 2: series against the West Indies in Perth today. The Australian 47 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: team will be captain once again by Pat Cummins and 48 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: they'll open the series in wa before traveling to Adelaide 49 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: for the second match next week. Okay, So the Nationals, 50 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: who form part of the coalition alongside the Liberal Party, 51 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: they're the junior partner of the coalition. They've come out 52 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: and said they won't support the Indigenous Voice to Parliament 53 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 2: and that has reignited the conversation on the referendum which 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,119 Speaker 2: was promised by the Prime Minister in this term of government. 55 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: I spoke to Thomas Mayo, who's an advocate from the 56 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: Uluru Statement from the Heart, about his take on all 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: of this. But I think before we get into that chat, 58 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: we should take a step back, Sam and look at 59 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: some of the context. 60 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: Why don't we start with the voice What exactly is 61 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: being proposed here? 62 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's something we've spoken about quite a bit 63 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: on this pod before. It was very big during the 64 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: election time. So the voice of Parliament would be an 65 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 2: official representative body that would be made up by First 66 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: Nations people that would advise Parliament on laws that would 67 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: affect other First Nations people. So basically, any legislation that 68 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: would affect First Nations community would go through this representative 69 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: body first. And the ularu's statement specifically asks that the 70 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: voice be written into the Australian Constitution, which currently makes 71 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: no mention of First Nations people. But as we know, 72 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: in order to change the constitution you do need a referendum, 73 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: and in order for a referendum to be successful, the 74 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: majority of people in the majority of states need to 75 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: vote for it to pass. The federal government has promised 76 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: that there will be a referendum on a voice to 77 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,839 Speaker 2: Parliament in this term of government, So before we head 78 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: back to the polls again in a couple of years time. 79 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: Earlier in the year, Prime Minister Anthony Alberzi announced some 80 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: proposed wording for the question that would go to a vote. 81 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 8: Something as simple, but something as clear as this, do 82 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 8: you support an alteration to the Constitution that establishes an 83 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 8: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voice. A straightforward proposition, a 84 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 8: simple principle, A question from the heart. 85 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 7: If a referendum were to be successful. 86 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: It would make it a legal requirement to have a voice, 87 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: but the actual structure and the powers of the voice 88 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: would still be decided by Parliament, and so that could 89 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: be changed by future governments. At present, we don't actually 90 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 2: have a set date for the referendum, but if the 91 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 2: government keeps to its election promise, it would need to 92 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 2: be sometime before the twenty twenty five election. 93 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: I want to come back to the Nationals. Why are 94 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: they saying that they're opposed to the voice? 95 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So Leader of the National's David Little Proud laid 96 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: out his party's decision in a surprise press conference on 97 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: Monday this week. 98 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 4: We will not support the voice to Parliament. We believe 99 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 4: in empowering local Indigenous communities, giving them the power at 100 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 4: a local level, not creating another layer of bureaucracy here 101 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 4: in Canberra. 102 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: The Nationals say that they consulted First Nations people and communities, 103 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: as well as Country Liberal Party senator and First Nations 104 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: woman just Into Nampa Jimpa Price, who also spoke in 105 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: opposition to the boys. 106 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: We have in our nation's history. For the first time, 107 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 5: eleven Indigenous Australians representing not just Indigenous Australians, but all 108 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 5: Australians within Parliament. This concept that has no detail undermines 109 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 5: those voices that have worked hard to be elected into 110 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 5: the Australian Parliament. 111 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 3: Zari, you said you spoke to an advocate for the 112 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: First Nation's Voice to Parliament. What did they say? 113 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: So I spoke to Thomas Mayo. He's the National Indigenous 114 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: Officer of the Maritime Union of Australia and he's been 115 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: advocating for the ULARUS statement since its conception. So I 116 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 2: asked him how he felt about the National's response to 117 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 2: the Voice. 118 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 6: Well, firstly disgusted given that the detail of the Voice 119 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 6: has been put out there for discussion by the Prime 120 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 6: Minister back in early August, and the Nationals haven't genuinely 121 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 6: engaged in that and are jumping the gun with this decision. Well, 122 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 6: the details of the referendum and the Voice haven't been 123 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 6: finalized and they are deciding to go against something that 124 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 6: they are not fully informed about. But secondly also that 125 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 6: they are saying that this is because they don't believe 126 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 6: it will close the gap, which is ridiculous. Really. I've 127 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 6: just finished speaking at an Indigenous health conference here in 128 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 6: Canberra with hundreds of Indigenous people that work on the 129 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 6: ground in rural and remote communities for health and they 130 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 6: completely disagree with what the Nationals have said. 131 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: And one of the things that was said there was 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: just enterprise the CLP senator who was fronting that press conference, 133 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: and one of the things that she said was that 134 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: the Voice could mean that First Nations people would be 135 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: governed under a separate entity to everyone else. How do 136 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 2: you respond to those claims? 137 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 6: The Voice has never been proposed as something that will 138 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 6: govern anyone. It's simply a voice with which can advise 139 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 6: the Parliament on the decisions they make so they can 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 6: get them right. 141 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: We'll be back in just a moment, but first a 142 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: message from our sponsor. 143 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: Okay, so Tom is pushing back against some of the 144 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: claims made by the Nationals Zia. My question is why 145 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: is what the Nationals think even important here? Does it 146 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 3: impact the way the referendum will play out? 147 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a good question. 148 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: The government doesn't need the support of the opposition in 149 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: order to call a referendum. They've already committed to doing 150 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: so on an Indigenous Voice to Parliament and they don't 151 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: need the support from either the Nationals or the Liberal 152 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: Party in order to actually do so. 153 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 7: But one of the reasons that the. 154 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: Media and we hear at the Daily Ods have been 155 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: waiting to see how the coalition responds is mostly because 156 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: of historical precedent on referendums themselves. In Australia's history, there 157 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: have been forty four referendums held since nineteen oh one, 158 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 2: and only eight of those forty four were successful. According 159 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: to x Beant analysis on what makes a referendum successful, 160 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: one of the key factors is actually having bipartisan support, 161 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 2: so having both of the major parties support the push. 162 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: But on the flip side of that, I saw a 163 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: really interesting tweet yesterday from political journal at The Guardian 164 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 2: Amy Romikus, who very rightly pointed out that there hasn't 165 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 2: been a referendum held here in Australia since nineteen ninety nine, 166 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: and young people like you and I Sam have never 167 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 2: actually voted in a referendum. So she said that the 168 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: old true ruisms that you need bipartisan support to pass 169 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: a referendum may not hold this time, given that younger 170 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: voters are ready buck trends and vote on their own terms, 171 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: not on a parties, And I think she's alluding there 172 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: to the fact that we have really seen this rise 173 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: in voting outside of the major parties, and the independent 174 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: and minor party vote rise. So perhaps that trend could 175 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: translate into the referendum setting as well, and young people 176 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: actually don't follow what the major parties set out and 177 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: indeed just vote how they. 178 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: Wish, which I guess if you take a historical look 179 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: at it is actually the core purpose of a referendum. 180 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 3: It's for everyone to have their say and it should 181 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 3: be up to what you think exactly, Zara, Now that 182 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: the Nationals have made that position known, what do you 183 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: think is going to happen with the Liberal Party? 184 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 7: Well, we are still waiting for their response. 185 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: We've heard it's likely to come next year, so it's 186 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: difficult to really confirm or deny anything until that time. 187 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: But I did ask Tom what he thought the Liberal 188 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: Party would do. 189 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 6: Well. I continue to hope that they will support this, 190 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 6: but it's going to test Peter Dutton's leadership, and you know, 191 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 6: hopefully the Liberals can read the writing on the wall 192 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 6: and do something that is truly nation building. 193 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: And if they were to oppose or at least we 194 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: know now that the Nationals will oppose, so part of 195 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 2: the coalition will Where do you stand on how important 196 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 2: bipartisan support is for a successful referendum on a voice Parliament. 197 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 6: I believe that we can win without them, and this 198 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 6: is a reform that is about who we are as Australians. 199 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 6: It's truly advancing us, not just Indigenous people and ending 200 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 6: those statistics that we should be so ashamed of, but 201 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 6: also to be recognized in the world as the longest 202 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 6: continuing civilization on the planet in what constitutes us our constitution, 203 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 6: and it'll be something that our children will be proud 204 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 6: of and a gift to them. So I think we 205 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 6: can win this referendum without bipartisan support. 206 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 2: If we move away from the politics for a second, 207 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: I'm really keen to understand what you think the next 208 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: six months to twelve months looks like for the campaign 209 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: in engaging the electorate broadly away from the politicians. What 210 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: do you think now needs to be done to talk 211 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 2: to the community at large. 212 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 6: Well. Those that oppose this, including the Nationals, are going 213 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 6: to seek to confuse Australians now and we need to 214 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 6: communicate with Australians about just what a simple thing this is. 215 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 3: That this is. 216 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 6: A proposal about granting fairness to Indigenous people, the simple 217 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 6: manners that we should be asked before decisions are made 218 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 6: about us. And that's the principle that we're entrining that 219 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 6: Indigenous people should have a voice, they can speak to 220 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 6: the Parliament in a transparent way before they make decisions 221 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 6: that affect our lives. And it's a fair go. 222 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: Tom, thank you so much for your time today. Really 223 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: appreciate it. 224 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 3: Thanks Sarah, thank you for joining us on the Daily OS. 225 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 3: If you learn something from today's episode, don't forget to 226 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 3: hit the Subscribe a TDA episode waiting for you every 227 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: weekday morning. We'll be back again tomorrow. We might be 228 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: a bit sleepy after the socceros play at two am overnight. 229 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 3: Other than that, have a great day.