1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:01,400 Speaker 1: Prices. 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 2: Well, the phone lines are going absolutely berserk this morning 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 2: and we will take those calls in just a little while. 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: But we tried to catch up with her a little 5 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: bit earlier. 6 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 2: It is all go today in Parliament in Canberra, by 7 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 2: the sounds of things. The Senator for the Northern Territory, 8 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: Melandarie McCarthy joins me on the line right now. 9 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: Good morning, Senator. 10 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 3: Hey, good morning Katie, and good morning to all your listeners. 11 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Busy day, busy day for you guys. 12 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, given that we finished at about one am 13 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 3: this morning and didn't get to sleep till about three am, 14 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 3: and Noah wasn't partying in Canberra, it was just the 15 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 3: debate in the Senate that we're for hours. So we're 16 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: all pretty pretty pumped, I think, to get through today 17 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 3: and then hopefully it's going to be our last Senate 18 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 3: day for the year. 19 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 20 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: Well, it sounds as though it was a busy night 21 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: last night. 22 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: We were expecting or we weren't really sure. 23 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: I guess exactly what was going to happen with the 24 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Cashley step at cart understand it? Rex Patrick did vote? 25 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: Did he voted with you? After that trip here to 26 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. 27 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 3: That's right, Katie, and I just want to thank Territorians, 28 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 3: especially those who talked to Senator Patrick and also to 29 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: Senator Lamby. Both of those senators stayed with me with 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 3: Labor and voted against the cashlist debit card being compulsory 31 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 3: right across the Northern Territory and those four other jurisdictions 32 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 3: or for other trial sites. So I'm just you know, 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 3: it was a great outcome in that respect, Katie, what. 34 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: Happened in the end, senator, because as I understand, it 35 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: was voted against, but then another senator, another independent senator, 36 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: had a meeting with Anne Rustin, the minister responsible for 37 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: the legislation. There was something happened behind the scenes, and 38 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: then that senator of staying from voting and so now 39 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: it's a trial period again. 40 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: So really what it is is that the government couldn't 41 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 3: get the bill that it wanted through. The Senate did 42 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 3: reject the government's cash list debit card legislation. So what 43 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: the government did was bring in a last minute amendment, 44 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: and that amendment was really to keep the status quo, 45 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: and that is those four trial sites to continue with 46 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 3: their trial sites for another two years and to also 47 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 3: make the Northern Territory or not make it, but to 48 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: invite the Northern Territory to choose to be on the 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: cash List debit card. 50 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: And so who will make that decision as to whether 51 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: we choose to be on the cashless debit card or not. 52 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: Well, it will really come down firstly to those individuals 53 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 3: who are on the Basics Card. And this was really 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 3: a last minute move by the minister. It really did 55 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 3: show in desperation, Katie, the government clearly wanted to keep 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: the cash List debit card alive. They were not going 57 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: to with the fact that Senator Patrick and Senator Lambi 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 3: was voting against it. They sneaked in a last minute 59 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 3: amendment and talked to one of the other senators who decided, 60 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: even though they voted against it in the lower House, 61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: decided to abstain here in the Senate so that the 62 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: Government could pass it. 63 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: So, Melandari, you know, what does it mean for those 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 2: people that are on the Basics card at the moment 65 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: and what will it mean for Territorians. 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 3: Well, at the moment, that's still unclear. For the people 67 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 3: on the Basics card, they'll obviously continue on the Basics card. 68 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: It's really now a case of what the government is 69 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: going to do, And these were questions I asked at 70 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: committee stage last night, Katie. One of the things I've 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 3: certainly looked into, and Labours looked into, is that it's 72 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 3: actually illegal to send a credit card or debit card 73 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: to a person if they requested it. So I think 74 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 3: the Minister has to go back and do some more 75 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: work to actually work out the legalities of that because 76 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: they can't just send it in the mail. And the 77 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 3: other questions we had was in a lot of our 78 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: communities where people are on Basics card, there's no letterboxes 79 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 3: at their home. 80 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: You know. 81 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: I know this sounds really simple, but that's actually going 82 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: to cause legal issues for the distribution of these cards. 83 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: And the Minister couldn't answer any of those questions clearly 84 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: because they bought in this last minute deal. 85 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like there's still a way to go. 86 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: But at this stage, for anybody out there listening right 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 2: now who is on the Basics card, you know, what 88 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 2: would you say to them in terms of, you know, 89 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: if they're thinking to themselves, well, does this mean that 90 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 2: the mind's going to change? 91 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: What's going to happen for me? What would you say 92 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: to them. 93 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 3: Look, I would certainly say to those people who are 94 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: on the basics card that your situation won't change in 95 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: the immediate future. But at some point, no doubt the 96 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 3: either Center Link or the Department, no doubt they will 97 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: be contacted. But I guess there are questions for the 98 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: Minister now, Katie, as to how she's going to handle this. 99 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 3: It is really very messy and it is unfortunate that 100 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: we didn't just say no to the card and that 101 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: was it. But you know, deals are made and people backflip, 102 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 3: and that's what happened last night, well this morning at 103 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: two one am, his long night. 104 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 2: Well, well, we'll wait in here and we will will 105 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: certainly sort of you know, try and keep an ear 106 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 2: out on exactly what's going on. But we have heard 107 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: from people who found it really hard, especially around Christmas time, 108 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: trying to buy presents and stuff. Is what we've sort 109 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: of heard on our phone line. 110 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 3: Yes, and you know, it's this is what we raise. 111 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 3: There are some really incredibly emotional speed which is you know, 112 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 3: certainly from the Greens, from Senator Lambey herself, you know, 113 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 3: even Senator Patrick, you know, and Labor members that this 114 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 3: is about people and their lives and their livelihoods, and 115 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: how they try and look after their families, and how 116 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: they're trying to rise above disadvantage. And you can't tire 117 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: everyone with the same brush here, and we really did 118 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 3: try hard to get rid of this card. I think 119 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 3: the outcome that we have achieved is certainly, you know, 120 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: a little bit better than having got through. 121 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: But it was. 122 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 3: Disappointing that one of these Senator Alliance senators just didn't 123 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: turn up and give a reason as to why they 124 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: would do that. 125 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: Well, Senator for the Northern Territory, Melandarie McCarthy, we are 126 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: going to have to leave it there. We always appreciate 127 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: your time. 128 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. We'll talk to you again, So thank you.