1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,960
Speaker 1: My name is Tatasha Bamblet. I'm a proud First Nations

2
00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: woman and I'm here to acknowledge country t glennyan Ganya, Niana,

3
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,920
Speaker 1: Kaka yah Ya bin Ahaka Nian our gay in Mbina,

4
00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 1: yakarum Jar, Dominyamka Domaga Ithawakawaman, damon imlan Bma bang Gadabomba

5
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,240
Speaker 1: in and now in wakah Ghana on yak rum Jar

6
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,920
Speaker 1: water Nadaa. Hello, beautiful friends, we gather on the lands

7
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: of the Aboriginal people. We thank acknowledge and respect the

8
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: Abiginal people's land that we're gathering on today. Take pleasure

9
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: in all the land and respect all that you see.

10
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:40,160
Speaker 1: She's on the Money podcast acknowledges culture, country, community and connections,

11
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,560
Speaker 1: bringing you the tools, knowledge and resources for you to thrive.

12
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,560
Speaker 2: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.

13
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, The finance

14
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 3: podcast that Knows Financial Empowerment.

15
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,080
Speaker 2: Starts with saying the quiet parts out loud.

16
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 3: I'm your host, Victoria Devine, and you might be wondering

17
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 3: why am I coming into your ears on a Tuesday. Well,

18
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,200
Speaker 3: today is not just any old Tuesday, guys. It is

19
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,880
Speaker 3: Equal Payday here in Australia, a day that exists because,

20
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 3: contrary to what the men in the comments section would

21
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,960
Speaker 3: have you believe, the gender pay gap is real and

22
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 3: no it's not just about two people being paid differently

23
00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,480
Speaker 3: for the same damn job. So today we are dropping

24
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 3: into your feed with a little bonus episode to unpack

25
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 3: what the gap actually is, why it exists, and what

26
00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 3: we can do about it.

27
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 2: And to do that, it's not just me. I've brought

28
00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 2: in an absolute powerhouse.

29
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,040
Speaker 3: Doctor Simone McCurdy is one of the leading voices in

30
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 3: workplace gender equality, worked with everyone from Victoria Police to

31
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 3: national policy makers, and now leads the insights team at WGEA,

32
00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 3: the agency that literally publishes Australia's gender pay gap data.

33
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 3: If you've seen those headlines about how your employer stacks

34
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,239
Speaker 3: up in the gender pay gap, Simone and her team

35
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,520
Speaker 3: are the ones behind it. Welcome to the show, Simone,

36
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,320
Speaker 3: I am genuinely so excited about this episode, even though

37
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 3: it's a really terrible topic.

38
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,919
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to be here as well. As I

39
00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 2: was saying before, it's good to meet people who is

40
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,639
Speaker 2: excited about talking gender pay gaps and gender equality. In

41
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:36,640
Speaker 2: the workplace as I am.

42
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,079
Speaker 3: It's a funny topic when we talk about it in

43
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 3: that way, right, Yes, Like I'm excited to talk about it,

44
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 3: but it shouldn't exist. So it's like I'm excited, but

45
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,440
Speaker 3: not for the reasons you guys might think. I just

46
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 3: think that what a platform to be able to talk

47
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,359
Speaker 3: about this today. And I just feel so special that

48
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 3: you have found the time to come on our show

49
00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 3: and talk to us about this because I can talk

50
00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,560
Speaker 3: about the gender pay gap until the cows come home.

51
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,560
Speaker 3: I use your research, I quote your stuff all the time.

52
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 3: But sorry to have the big dog in a big

53
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 3: chair like this is the best thing in the entire world.

54
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,320
Speaker 3: As I mentioned in your intro, you've spent your entire

55
00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 3: career working in spaces that champion women's equality. What first

56
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,560
Speaker 3: drew you to this work and what is your secret

57
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:19,240
Speaker 3: to being so.

58
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,320
Speaker 2: Passionate about it? Well, I was actually going to be

59
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: a human rights I really wanted to, so I'm not

60
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 2: surprised by that. Yeah, but that does not surprise me

61
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 2: at all. And yeah, I just I think the you know,

62
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 2: I just went once I sort of started thinking about

63
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 2: this work and being in industrial relations, which is where

64
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,200
Speaker 2: I sort of ended up just seeing the inequality, and

65
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 2: particularly in the workplace, when technically everything should be contractual.

66
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 2: You know, you turn up to a place, you provide

67
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 2: your labor, your heart and soul for a certain amount

68
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 2: of hours. It's all sort of a guaranteed under contract,

69
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,000
Speaker 2: and yet it's a place like any community, that we

70
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 2: find a lot of very So I was really excited

71
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,960
Speaker 2: about dipping into that. I think the passion just stays up,

72
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,440
Speaker 2: but I think I really started to become wanting to

73
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 2: take a deep dive into what drives things like gender

74
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,120
Speaker 2: pay gaps. When I have my baby, it changes you. Absolutely.

75
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 3: Tell you're pregnant, you're going it might change me. I'm

76
00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,840
Speaker 3: a passionate woman with a career and like it.

77
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. As someone who also has a kid, I'm like, yeah,

78
00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 2: so what they say is true. I just become this

79
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties housewife.

80
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,040
Speaker 3: I've done all the totally you know you actually like

81
00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 3: up level your beast mode. I feel we become even

82
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 3: more aggressive about the things that we're passionate about because

83
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 3: we realize how impactful they are for future generations. And

84
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,080
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not having my literal son grow up

85
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 3: thinking that's normal.

86
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely not Yeah, absolutely, And I think you know, part

87
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 2: of the journey for me was then going back and

88
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 2: doing a PhD. And I got to sit in the

89
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,280
Speaker 2: lounge rooms of whole range of couples talking to them

90
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 2: about the impact of children on their work and family

91
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,600
Speaker 2: and what policies they used, and that just solidified for

92
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 2: me that's something really had to change. So that's something

93
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 2: I think about actually each and every day icon behavior.

94
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 2: So I have to ask, what is it actually like

95
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 2: doing this work day to day, because like all of

96
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,479
Speaker 2: that is very aspirational and really inspirational, but I feel

97
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,600
Speaker 2: like you could fall into a bit of a slog,

98
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,159
Speaker 2: like because I feel like we are pushing stuff up

99
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,039
Speaker 2: here when it comes to gender pay gap. I feel

100
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 2: like so many people are non believers. They go that

101
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,280
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, and like that narrative is exhausting because like

102
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 2: I'm such a factual person. I'm like, sorry, like do

103
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,640
Speaker 2: some research, Like your incompetence is showing. But do you

104
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 2: feel hopeful about where we're heading at this point in

105
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,080
Speaker 2: time or do you feel like we're currently just on

106
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 2: the long slog, Like what's that lack day to day?

107
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,839
Speaker 2: Because it could be exhausting. Yep. I think I've been

108
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,720
Speaker 2: doing this for twenty two years now, so I have

109
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,279
Speaker 2: to say, more than any other time in that career,

110
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,720
Speaker 2: I feel enormously hopeful and feel like we really are

111
00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,000
Speaker 2: on a fast track to change. I think part of

112
00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,520
Speaker 2: that comes from the privilege that I have is going

113
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,039
Speaker 2: and talking to people each and every day, and particularly

114
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 2: going into the boards and c suites of the biggest

115
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 2: organizations in Australia and some of the greatest minds in Australia,

116
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 2: and I talk to men and women about how they're

117
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 2: leading those corporate teams, how they're thinking about it from

118
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 2: a business perspective, and I have to say my sense

119
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 2: is there is a real genuine curiosity. I don't think

120
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,920
Speaker 2: it is performative. I think there's a real curiosity about

121
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,039
Speaker 2: how they can change this. They know it's important, they

122
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 2: know it's important to their people and their shareholders and

123
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,280
Speaker 2: their communities. I think the biggest thing is they want

124
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 2: to learn more about it, so there's certainly open to that.

125
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 2: And I think the other part is the legislative framework

126
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 2: that we have through publishing gender pay gaps and now

127
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,880
Speaker 2: most recently putting in place compliance targets for organizations that

128
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 2: are five hundred or more employees, it really has set

129
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 2: up the platform to ensure that those boards and those

130
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 2: CEOs and the executives are actually intervening in a meaningful way,

131
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 2: in a purposeful way and doing something different. And those

132
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,480
Speaker 2: two things coming together, I think the intent and the

133
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 2: will to learn, and the legislative environment that is requiring

134
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 2: them to step into the space on a regular and

135
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 2: informed basis, There's never been a better time. I think

136
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,320
Speaker 2: if we ever have a chance of turning, the tide

137
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:42,680
Speaker 2: is now.

138
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 3: And I'm so excited about it because even in the

139
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,480
Speaker 3: lead up to this day, I've seen just more amplified

140
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 3: social media, more people talking about it, more women of

141
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 3: influenced talking about it, And I just go, this is

142
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 3: so exciting because for a long time, I don't think

143
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 3: women who were in leadership positions or positions of influence,

144
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 3: we're comfortable talking about it because of the backlash that

145
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 3: they would get. They'd go, well, they do, like, if

146
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 3: you've got them one on one, they would say, yeah, absolutely,

147
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,000
Speaker 3: I believe in it, like we need to fix it.

148
00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 3: But they weren't as willing to take to their social

149
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,360
Speaker 3: media platforms and share their narrative or share their story

150
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,920
Speaker 3: because they'll be like, look, yes, it's going to reach

151
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 3: the right audience, but it's also going to reach this

152
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 3: other audience and that can be exhausting as well. And

153
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 3: I just see so many women going, do you know what?

154
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,160
Speaker 3: Put that in the b And I don't even care

155
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 3: about the people who have hate for this. I just

156
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,560
Speaker 3: see such a clarity in the content creation this year

157
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,000
Speaker 3: as opposed to every other year.

158
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 2: And me, I'm like, yes, this.

159
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 3: Is what I've been trying to yell about the whole time.

160
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,839
Speaker 3: So I want to go back to your work for

161
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,319
Speaker 3: a second. Tell me about the current organization you work for.

162
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 3: So you work for the WGEA, what do they do?

163
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:48,880
Speaker 4: I know?

164
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,080
Speaker 2: But like for our community, what do they do? How

165
00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,599
Speaker 2: do they do it? And why them? Well wouldja? The

166
00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,640
Speaker 2: Workplace Genderal Quality Agency is a federal government agency. We

167
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 2: are a small but mighty team of around sixty people

168
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:10,680
Speaker 2: who on various levels either pursue organizations, not actually pursue

169
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,800
Speaker 2: them in that kind of compliance way, but really help

170
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 2: them to bring their best data forward in a collective sense.

171
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,319
Speaker 2: So they report to us every single year. So we

172
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 2: have a regulatory function where we collect data from the

173
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 2: workplaces on gender equality. Now, what we do with that

174
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 2: data is analyze it and we send it back out

175
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 2: and it helps to inform government, for example, on policies

176
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,599
Speaker 2: and practices that they need to put in place. But

177
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 2: most importantly, it informs organizations and employers about how they're

178
00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 2: tracking on gender equality, on the metrics and the data

179
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 2: that actually matter. And importantly, we really now are trying

180
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 2: to move into a different space which is helping them

181
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,599
Speaker 2: build their capability and their capacity, which is what my

182
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,240
Speaker 2: team do on a daily basis make meaning of that data,

183
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 2: and that's really important because it is different for each

184
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 2: organization and then build the capability and the capacity in

185
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 2: their own organizations to actually do something purposeful and meaningful

186
00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 2: with that data and create the change that As I said,

187
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 2: I think there is the aspiration and there is certainly

188
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,439
Speaker 2: the will, but not everyone is able to understand how

189
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 2: to do that. And so we have this little mantra

190
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 2: at WITHJEA that we shift people from knowing better to

191
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,559
Speaker 2: doing better, and we really try to bring in that

192
00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:38,600
Speaker 2: practice element to help organizations to understand and find meaning

193
00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,040
Speaker 2: in that data. So it's data for a purpose, it's

194
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 2: not just all just reporting. That's right. Organizations go through

195
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,560
Speaker 2: a little bit of pain because it's quite a detailed

196
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 2: report that they have to do every year. We're getting

197
00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,599
Speaker 2: better and better as an agency, I think, in streamlining

198
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 2: that process. But the most important thing that we really

199
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 2: want to do each and every day is help organizations

200
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,559
Speaker 2: to think that it's worth it. Yeah, they can use

201
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 2: that data in a meaningful way and create more gender

202
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 2: equal experiences in their workplace. For me, that's really exciting,

203
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 2: like just data.

204
00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,320
Speaker 3: As someone who has a background in psychology and statistics,

205
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 3: I just get very excited about that. But data tells

206
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,319
Speaker 3: a story and like so it's not just about collecting

207
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,920
Speaker 3: the data, it's about your team really extrapolating that out

208
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,880
Speaker 3: and being like, well, this means this, and this looks

209
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 3: like this, and this is going to be the outcome.

210
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,880
Speaker 3: Like that's the power in data. And I'm just I'm

211
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 3: so excited to see what you guys are going to

212
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,800
Speaker 3: do this year. Because I obviously today is the nineteenth

213
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 3: of August as we are publishing this, but it is

214
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 3: equal payday to day, and I think a lot of

215
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,679
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, random day for equal payday. It's

216
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,280
Speaker 3: actually not a random day. How has that date been

217
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 3: decided and what does it tell us?

218
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's certainly not random. It's very very purposeful.

219
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,200
Speaker 2: It is actually the amount of days from the end

220
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 2: of the financial year that women have to work in

221
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 2: order to make pay parody with gross. Yes, that's gross,

222
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 2: but also very cool that you guys did that, but

223
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:17,679
Speaker 2: also ill, So fifty days on average. That figure comes

224
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 2: from the ABS. You look at the gender pay gap,

225
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 2: they rate that at the moment at about eleven point

226
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,079
Speaker 2: nine percent. So at eleven point nine percent difference between

227
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 2: you know, the weekly average earnings of men and women,

228
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 2: all things being equal, that equates to fifty extra days

229
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,719
Speaker 2: that women have to work in order to have that

230
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 2: pay parent Because we aren't doing enough already. No, we're

231
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,439
Speaker 2: bit you know leisure being, aren't we.

232
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, we've just got that extra time up our sleeves,

233
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 3: like about all the data in like if we extrapolate

234
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 3: it out across every other area of our lives, we

235
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,679
Speaker 3: just we just have so much free time, so it

236
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,760
Speaker 3: just makes sense to give us that extra work. It

237
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 3: drives me insane, and my community know, I'm quite vocal

238
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,160
Speaker 3: about this online and have been known to get in

239
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,960
Speaker 3: a little bit of a disagreement in the comments section,

240
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,760
Speaker 3: But every single time it comes up on our social media,

241
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 3: on someone else's social media, there is always going to

242
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 3: be that person in the comments section that says, this

243
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 3: isn't real, it's actually illegal to pay women less than

244
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:29,560
Speaker 3: men for the same job.

245
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 2: And what do you have to say to that? Well, look,

246
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 2: I think my response is always curious. I think people

247
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,839
Speaker 2: come to this at different levels of understanding, and I

248
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 2: think it's important certainly for me and you know, working

249
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 2: with a whole host of organizations and people. It's a

250
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,319
Speaker 2: really common misconception, but it is actually that a misconception.

251
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,839
Speaker 2: The gender pay gap is real, and certainly the way

252
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,560
Speaker 2: that we jea approach it is looking at a total

253
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,520
Speaker 2: remuneration pay gap, which includes not it's not equal pay

254
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,680
Speaker 2: for equal work. That is something very different. And I think,

255
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,880
Speaker 2: you know, some of your avid contributors have pointed out

256
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,720
Speaker 2: it is illegal in this country to have the same

257
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,400
Speaker 2: job and pay a woman differently to a man.

258
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 3: Yes, that's not rocket science. You are correct, that is illegal.

259
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,320
Speaker 3: That's actually not what we're talking about, though, So sit

260
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 3: down and lessen.

261
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is. It is sort of a very

262
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 2: different calculation and it's an important one that total remuneration

263
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 2: approach looks at not just the pay differences between men

264
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,720
Speaker 2: and women in terms of wages, so what you would

265
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 2: earn as a salary, but all that other discretionary kind

266
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,720
Speaker 2: of remuneration that goes into a package, things like superannuation,

267
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 2: over time bonuses. Because it's actually here that we start

268
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 2: to see the differences and importantly the differences over the

269
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 2: life cause, which I know you and your community are

270
00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 2: right on because it speaks directly the things like superannuation,

271
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 2: which I will jump up and down.

272
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 3: Every single day until I die about this topic. Like

273
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,760
Speaker 3: you want to talk about superannuations. Sit down, let's go

274
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,880
Speaker 3: Like I just and it's not because I want you

275
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 3: to just be rich. I want you to have exactly

276
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 3: the same opportunities and not miss out. And that's the

277
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,360
Speaker 3: important part here. So many women are missing out, and

278
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 3: that's where we need to have a quick conversation about

279
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 3: the difference between well, what is equal pay and then

280
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 3: what is the gender pay gap? Because I think a

281
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,640
Speaker 3: lot of people just go, oh, the gender pay gap

282
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,720
Speaker 3: is about equal pay for women, and that's actually a

283
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 3: completely incorrect statement.

284
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 2: So tell me the difference between the two and how.

285
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 3: If we're maybe having some conversations because most people listen

286
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 3: to our podcast in the morning, most of them are

287
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,160
Speaker 3: in their cars on their way to work.

288
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,240
Speaker 2: High I hope you had a coffee because you're.

289
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,560
Speaker 3: Going to get to work and maybe you're going to

290
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,200
Speaker 3: talk about the gender pay gap, and you might come

291
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 3: up against me that's illegal.

292
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,720
Speaker 2: What's the difference between the two. Well, the difference is

293
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 2: ultimately in the calculation, and I have to say, ultimately

294
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 2: in the intent. So you know, when we're talking about

295
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 2: like for like pay gaps, we are talking about that

296
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 2: legal framework that says it is it is just illegal

297
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,000
Speaker 2: to pay a woman and a man differently. You know,

298
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 2: you cannot pay people differently based on their gender. So

299
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 2: that's sort of a given. And as I said, a

300
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 2: lot of people think that that's what the gender pay

301
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 2: gap is about. But the gender pay gap represents the

302
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:34,200
Speaker 2: total sum of the disadvantage that women accumulate over a

303
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,560
Speaker 2: period of time. So we measure it in twelve months

304
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: every twelve months, and into that goes things like superannuation,

305
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 2: discretionary pay bonuses, those kinds of things, and that's when

306
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 2: you get the real picture of that disadvantage. That's often hidden.

307
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 2: So I just I want to sort of step back

308
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 2: and really be clear that I don't think that any

309
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 2: organization or any manager, male or female, it would actively

310
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 2: go out of their way to discriminate on the grounds

311
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 2: of gender, for example, or probably any of the other

312
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 2: protected attributes. I really get that sense that it's not

313
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 2: necessarily a deliberate thing. But what organizations now have is

314
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 2: a responsibility to understand exactly what is driving their gender

315
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,680
Speaker 2: pay gaps. And it's those hidden things that we often

316
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 2: don't think about. And I can give you a really

317
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 2: great example most recently, working with an organization who could

318
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 2: not work out how the gender pay gap was still

319
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,679
Speaker 2: existing in their graduate cohort. So they bring a lot

320
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 2: of graduates into their organization every year. Then they tracked

321
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,560
Speaker 2: them after five years, and there's a gender pay gap.

322
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,480
Speaker 2: You know, the men are getting paid more than the women.

323
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,119
Speaker 2: Now they started on the same salary, they had.

324
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 3: The technically exactly the same opportunity, with exactly the same grad.

325
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 2: P exact exactly so all things being equal. So then

326
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,399
Speaker 2: when they're tracked over that time, when we started to

327
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 2: break down the data, we actually saw that the men

328
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,119
Speaker 2: were going into the areas of the business that like

329
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,680
Speaker 2: finance it we know what happens at the end of

330
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 2: financial year, right, there's this flurry of activity to close

331
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,800
Speaker 2: everything off, to get all your reports done, et cetera,

332
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 2: et cetera. There's lots of overtime involved in that. Now,

333
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:29,400
Speaker 2: the women were mostly going into things like HR marketing, sales,

334
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 2: those kinds of things, and their overtime, for example, just

335
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: wasn't available in those particular positions. So there we have

336
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: really a clean example of absolute unintentional bias and disadvantage

337
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,680
Speaker 2: that was happening in a program that really attempted to

338
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 2: make things equal. But yet when we pursue and had

339
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,960
Speaker 2: to look at the data and unpacked it, we can

340
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,200
Speaker 2: see that there was a disadvantage. Now that accumulates over

341
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 2: the life course, you are already behind the april. And

342
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: that's exactly the afffect that we're trying to get employers

343
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: to be more cognizant of and really help them to

344
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 2: understand what's driving it so that they can stand the tide.

345
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 2: And I'm glad to say that that organizations are now

346
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,879
Speaker 2: looking at their graduates or their entry level programs with

347
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,359
Speaker 2: that in mind and thinking about the love that I

348
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,159
Speaker 2: love that so much, and like we are she's on

349
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: the money right. So a lot of people that listen

350
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 2: to my content are really excited about investing, and I

351
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,159
Speaker 2: kin this to an investing journey. You know, at the

352
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 2: very start, it.

353
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,399
Speaker 3: Kind of feels fruitless, like the first twelve months, like

354
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 3: you've got your grad job, maybe you've just like downloaded shares,

355
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 3: yes or whatever, and you've invested your first fifty bucks.

356
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 2: And like there's no real big changes.

357
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 3: And then like after the first year, you've got like

358
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 3: not that many dividends and you're like, wow, my chafful

359
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 3: olia made thirty cents, Like that's amazing. But the important thing,

360
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,200
Speaker 3: and I keep saying this, I'm like, we're in doubt.

361
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 3: Zoom out, Like we need to look at the bigger picture.

362
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 3: It's not about what's happening day to day or even

363
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 3: week to week. It's not even about the conversations you

364
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 3: and I are having about investing on the show. It's

365
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 3: about those little things that add up over a long

366
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 3: period of time that make the big difference. So you know,

367
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 3: it's the additional coffee money that you're investing, it's the

368
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,360
Speaker 3: additional things here and there where you go Oh yeah,

369
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,880
Speaker 3: I did select you know, on my investing platform dividend

370
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 3: reinvestment plan, and like these small things that you might

371
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 3: not have known about that you can trigger and tweak

372
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 3: that over the long term. Then I look back and go,

373
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 3: holy guacamole, I have one hundred thousand dollars invested, and

374
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 3: if I hadn't done this, I only would have had

375
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 3: ten thousand. That to me is a really good comparison

376
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,439
Speaker 3: to the gender pay gap, because day to day you're

377
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 3: going into these organizations, people are passionate.

378
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: They don't want a gender pay gap.

379
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 3: But then when we zoom out, we go okay, cool, Like,

380
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,640
Speaker 3: let's look at a ten year timeframe on someone's career.

381
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,719
Speaker 3: Let's pretend they've both done that grad program and somehow

382
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 3: stayed with the same organization for ten years. We're looking

383
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 3: at them going, Wow, they did the same degree, the

384
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: same opportunity, the same grad program. That woman's now on

385
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 3: seventy thousand dollars and that man's one hundred and eighty.

386
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: How how did we get here? And it's not because

387
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 3: they're not enjoying their jobs. It's because there have been

388
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 3: a series of small things along the way that guide

389
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 3: different genders in different ways, and that could be completely subliminal,

390
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 3: and we actually need to kind of like get rid

391
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 3: of our blinkers and go, well, what does that look like?

392
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,359
Speaker 2: How does that work?

393
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 3: So just the idea that people are even looking at

394
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 3: their grad programs to eliminate this makes me so excited

395
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 3: because there's someone who did a grad program so gendered,

396
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 3: like just even accidentally, like I.

397
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: Was the one that was asked empty the dishorsher cleaning

398
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 2: up afterwards.

399
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 3: But like it's just all of those things where it's

400
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 3: just like default my job somehow, and I'm not saying

401
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: that that's because people expect it. I think also as women,

402
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: I'm the first to say yes, I'm a people please ask,

403
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: like if you're like, oh, Vy, can you give me

404
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 3: a hand?

405
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: Of course I can.

406
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say no, But like my colleague

407
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 3: he might have said, oh I can do it after

408
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 3: I've finished this report. I wish I had the balls

409
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 3: to say that, and then I didn't, which is why

410
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 3: we need wou GA to come in and kind of

411
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 3: have our backs and go, actually, this is unacceptable. Like

412
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 3: these small things are the big things, and the big

413
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: things change lives.

414
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 2: And so Victoria on that point. I mean, I think

415
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: that's probably what we're g is now trying to do

416
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 2: something different because what you've touched on there is the

417
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 2: intersection of some structural things. So the way things have

418
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 2: been particularly in maybe an industry in finance. Let's just

419
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: say that that it is obvious, isn't it. It's yeah,

420
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 2: but very sort of. It is quite gendered, and the

421
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 2: results and the data show that. But then there's also

422
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: the personal and the individual circumstances and this sort of

423
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: social cohesion of if we are falling into roles even

424
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: within ourselves. And so I want to urge people, and

425
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: particularly women and particularly your co who really can change

426
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: the trajectory of their lives right now by thinking about this,

427
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: to think about equal Payday as an investment day in themselves.

428
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 3: Yes, it might seem small because it's only the nineteenth

429
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: of August, Ye's Tuesday, and you're in your car driving

430
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 3: to work. You probably weren't thinking about something's dramatic. But

431
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: the tiny little things that are going to mean that

432
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 3: ultimately you are wealthier, you are better off, you are

433
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 3: more financially stable, you are even you have better wellness. Yeah,

434
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: when we work towards all these things. It's not just like,

435
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 3: oh yeah, she has more in her super she doesn't

436
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: care though, Like it's everything, like financial well being impacts

437
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: your social you're emotional your financial obviously you're like your

438
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 3: literal well being across the board. And that's what we're

439
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: talking about, Like it's not just to be nice to

440
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: have few more dollars.

441
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 2: Hey, that's not it. That's not it. Yeah, And when

442
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 2: you say no to whether it be actually will all

443
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 2: clean up after the morning tea. No, I'm not stacking

444
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 2: the dish wash on my own morning te You probably

445
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: had to organize, yes, when you say no to that,

446
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 2: but also to on a day like equal payday where

447
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 2: you actually do go and have a look with Actually

448
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: with g We've put together a calculator where you can

449
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 2: actually go and calculate the amount of helpful thank you

450
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 2: but that's so depressing and have a conversation about it,

451
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 2: and then think also about how you're behaving. So when

452
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 2: it does come to things like performance appraisals, when it

453
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: does come to things like putting your hand up for

454
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: a bonus, when it comes to both men and women

455
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: not just stepping away from the workforce to care, but

456
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: how they behave and internalize some of those unwritten codes

457
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 2: and words that are absolutely real in organizations to think

458
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: about that and try and choose differently. And I think

459
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 2: that's really want and that can messages. It acts really hard.

460
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: So we're not saying, oh, it's so easy, just say no,

461
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: like no's a full sentence. That's really challenging, especially if

462
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 3: you've fallen into being that person that your organization relies on. Yep,

463
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 3: like Sam just does it, like she just does it right,

464
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 3: and they're not even thinking about it. They're not thinking

465
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: about the impact long term. But long term that's going

466
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: to change your life. And you know, I think everything

467
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 3: I do that she's on the money is to empower

468
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: women to be more financially stable because money is power.

469
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 2: When women have power, the entire world changes for the better.

470
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 3: Like I cannot give you an example of when women

471
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: have been given money and they haven't impacted their community positively,

472
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 3: Like what an incredible thing to do. But it all

473
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 3: starts with these days like equal Payday, where you go, well,

474
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: what is that, how does that work? What does that

475
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 3: mean for me? And it's not these big grand gestures

476
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: of posting on social media or like me getting an

477
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 3: arguments in the comments section where people are saying that

478
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: it's not true, it's actually going I don't care what

479
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: other people are saying. It's like pushing back from the

480
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 3: things that are happening in your organization, just slowly and

481
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 3: surely that you're on the trajectory that puts you in

482
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: the best possible position. And it's not just women, right, So,

483
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: Like there's obviously like a number of different factors like

484
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: culture and age and disability that I think we should

485
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 3: touch on here as well to keep in mind, because

486
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: like there are going to be women in the cars

487
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 3: maybe going to work, or even just some of our

488
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: community members who don't work at the moment who are like,

489
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 3: you know, Victoria, I'm disabled, I can't work, but I

490
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 3: love she's on the money, and there are a heap

491
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: of them, which I adore.

492
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: But like you two have an impact.

493
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: But what do we need to keep in mind when

494
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 3: it comes to how the gap impacts different cohorts of women?

495
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: And I think this is probably something also for you know,

496
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: maybe the CEO's and boards that may be listening to you.

497
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,879
Speaker 2: If not, so what we could do about that, like,

498
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: you know, to actually be thinking about what that they

499
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: call this intersectionality. So it's a really sort of I

500
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 2: guess it's a label that we use when we look

501
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: at the intersection of disadvancevantage. And so for this example,

502
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: you know, we're thinking about gender pay gaps, and we're

503
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: thinking about the disadvantage of women and how they accumulate

504
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: that over the life course. So there's a time element

505
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: to that. We also look at the multiple disadvantages and

506
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: trying to tease out and we're certainly starting to do

507
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: this with data, trying to tease out what the impact

508
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: of that multiple disadvantage is. Again, it works like compound interest.

509
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: So you might be a white woman living in the

510
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: city in teaching, and so we would look at that

511
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: and go a gender pay gap. If we were to

512
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: calculate that for that cohort comes out at a certain

513
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 2: number because you know, you in a teaching industry, your age,

514
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: those kinds of things. But if we take that and

515
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: think about a woman.

516
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: Of color in a rural and I hate it data,

517
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 3: I hate I hate it because I look at it

518
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 3: and I look at all of our first nations friends, yes,

519
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: and I just go what it's even more unfair, Like,

520
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: what can I do to support yeah, it's conversations like this.

521
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: It is it is to be really aware. So that's

522
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: the first thing, to be aware that actually people do

523
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 2: experience multiple disadvantages and it is again very real and

524
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: it does show up in gender pay gaps if you

525
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: do start to go through your data at an organization level,

526
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: but to understand that there's things like, you know, even rurality,

527
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: where you live, how old you are, you know, are

528
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 2: you a woman of color, are you a person living

529
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: with a disability. All of these things accumulate and I

530
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: call it it's like being pecked to death by a duck.

531
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: It sort of is one thing after another after another

532
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 2: that accumulate over the life cause. And this is why

533
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: we want people to stop and think about this. And

534
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: we also want, you know, the boards and the c

535
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: suites and all of our HR and diversity practitioners to

536
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: take that pause and think about not just who these

537
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: gender pay gaps are impacting and the different cohorts in

538
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: their organizations, but importantly what they're going to do about it.

539
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 2: And there's so many easy things that they can do,

540
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 2: even at board level. Talking about a board that had donated,

541
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 2: for example, some money, you know, it was a considerable

542
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: sum of money and they'd given it to a football club.

543
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 2: So we sort of unpack that and guess what we

544
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: are encouraging them to do is to go, if you

545
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: put a gendered lens on that, you would see and

546
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: you'd want to trace where those dollars went and on

547
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: your website. And this is about the intent and it

548
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 2: is genuine. I don't think it's all performative. It's genuine.

549
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: When you're more informed, you can choose better, right.

550
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's not about you not doing the right thing.

551
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 3: Sometimes you just if you don't know, Betty, you can't

552
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 3: do better.

553
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 2: If you don't know. That's exactly right. And so we're

554
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 2: sort of having a look at that and going, if

555
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: you put a gendered lens over that and trace that money,

556
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: how could you have have spent that money differently, for example,

557
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: or in a way that really helped and was equal

558
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: in terms of empowering women. So you know, we're the

559
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: change rooms there for both the boys and the girls.

560
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: What part of it did you put into your community

561
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 2: in encouraging girls to come and play football? What are

562
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 2: the ways in which you could genuinely demonstrate being conscious

563
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: of the way that you're giving you're giving this a

564
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 2: great thing to give money into a community. But if

565
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: we become more conscious of how we do that, then

566
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: we're able to actually stem I guess the tide of

567
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: disadvantage and importantly turn the tide to advantage for all.

568
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 2: So that's happening in the workplace, in the community and

569
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: their shareholders for example, Yeah want it, and it's a

570
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: good thing. It's from our slate.

571
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 3: We see higher shareholder return when gender equality is taken

572
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: into consideration in organizations. So sorry, that's a pretty good

573
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: business case to make it a priority. And I have

574
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 3: recently had a few conversations with people to people and

575
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 3: they were like, what the hell am I meant to

576
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 3: just start from scratch and get rid of all my

577
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: policies And I'm like, no, but we can just start here,

578
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: Like we're not starting from scratch, We're just starting today.

579
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 3: And it's not about getting rid of every single policy

580
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: and changing things completely, although I love that. It's actually

581
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: about doing what you said, let's just look at one

582
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: charitable donation. Where did that go, What does that actually

583
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: look like in terms of impact? And how could have

584
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: we had more impact. We're not saying don't do what

585
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: you did, because like, let's be honest, A charitable donation amazing,

586
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: But what could we do to maybe have more impact

587
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 3: to make those dollars go further and actually contribute ultimately

588
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: to higher shareholder return? And I think that my time

589
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 3: working in corporate and my time in organizational psychology and

590
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: people in culture tells me a lot about you know, ultimately,

591
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: to get organizations and the c suite level to care,

592
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: we have to go back to things that impact the business.

593
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: We have to go back to shareholder return. We have

594
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: to talk about shareholder value. I'm sorry the maths mats here,

595
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: So why aren't we talking about it more? Because like,

596
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: ultimately I can make you more money, I can make

597
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: you more popular in society, and everybody wins, Like I think,

598
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 3: and this is a flex for me. My husband's very sexy, right, so,

599
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: like he works in like an executive role and he

600
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: is always saying this isn't a women's issue, this is

601
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: a people issue, and like he's I love it, Like

602
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: this is why I married him, because like ten out

603
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: of ten, but like he will be the first one

604
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 3: if someone's like, oh, did you want a coffee?

605
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: He's like, why are you asking? Like what's going on.

606
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 3: I'll get that, and like he tries to step up

607
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 3: and role model those behaviors that are he believes are

608
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: typically female in an organization and go, no, you shouldn't

609
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: have to do that every time, Like it's nice that

610
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: you're offered, but like I'll take all of the teacups

611
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: that are bulking up on everybody's desk to the kitchen

612
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: and like make a point that it's not meant to

613
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: be one person. And I'm obsessed with that. But let's

614
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: take a really quick break. Don't go anywhere, guys.

615
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: All right, we are back and.

616
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 3: We often talk about the gender pay gap, and you know,

617
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: on She's on the money, Like it's quite you could

618
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 3: be led to believe that I think this is a

619
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: women's issue, and that because it's on a women's podcast,

620
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 3: it's a women's issue. But what are the broader social

621
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: and economic consequences of not involving everybody in this conversation

622
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: and of essentially not closing the gap, Like why should

623
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: everybody become a Steve Yep, love you, Steve. Shout out

624
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 3: to Steve. He doesn't listen to my podcast. He says,

625
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 3: it's really annoying, and that's exactly.

626
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: He's honest. What we want is we want champions, you know,

627
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: to to really be you know, just working in a

628
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: different way. They don't have to change everything, but it's

629
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: about thinking in a different way. And then when we

630
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: think about the influence that you've obviously had on him,

631
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: and then the education, Oh wait till you meet his mother,

632
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: like ah, Like that's where that comes from for sure,

633
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: and it's a good thing. And importantly employees want that,

634
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: so employees are looking. It gets back to that original

635
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: conversation that we had about you know, it's a contractual arrangement.

636
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 2: I show up, I give you my intellectual capital, my time,

637
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: my heart, my energy for a certain period of time.

638
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: I think now we're starting to see women and men

639
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 2: asking even a job interview level, what's your gender pay gap,

640
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 2: what's the pay rentally of policy those kinds of things.

641
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: Now that makes sense when we take a big helicopter

642
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 2: view and think about the economic cost of not doing this,

643
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: we might turn to things like having a look at

644
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: participation rates for example, GDP growth and those kinds of things.

645
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,439
Speaker 2: So a couple of figures, you know, on average, there's

646
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: research out there that says eight hundred and ninety eight

647
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: million dollars a week is the calculation on lost earnings.

648
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 2: Excuse me, Yeah, that's a lot of hous. What is

649
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: so frustrating is you, I don't know.

650
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 3: Every time we talk about stuff like this on the show,

651
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: like my brain just immediately zooms out and thinks about

652
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 3: the bigger picture and how the biggest growing demographic of

653
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 3: people experiencing homelessness is women in their fifties, And most

654
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: of that could have been avoided if we'd really cared

655
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 3: about their superannuation, if we'd really cared about their career trajectories.

656
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: Because it's all the little things, and like, I can

657
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 3: go and talk to any of those women, and I've

658
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: spoken to many of them, and it's all I didn't

659
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: know that this is where I was going.

660
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: Like I thought I was doing the right thing.

661
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: No one's going, oh yeah, I made some pretty bad

662
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 3: decisions when it comes to career, and I didn't have

663
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 3: a good one. Like, no, these women have careers, they

664
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 3: have jobs, but like their contributions to superannuation, those bonuses

665
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: that bump things up along the way, that's what's suffering

666
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: and that's not what's being prioritized, and that ruins our society,

667
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: like at a societal level, this is a massive.

668
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: Issue, is at all levels. And I think you know,

669
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: even with starting to think about and you hear the

670
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: conversation now about productivity, for example, you're thinking about our

671
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 2: growth and our recovery after COVID. Women's participation in the

672
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: labor force is one of the best ways that we

673
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 2: can gain momentum on things like productivity. And yet when

674
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: we reduce their participation in the workplace to this trope

675
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 2: about choices for example, or decision making, again, try and

676
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: lean into these things in a way that is curious

677
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 2: and dispel the myths and increase the understanding. So you know,

678
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: one of the ways that I explain that is if

679
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: you go to a wedding and they say would you

680
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 2: like the chicken or the beef, and you choose the beef,

681
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: you cannot say anything about that person's preferred protein. They

682
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: are choosing from constrained choices. So women choosing to go

683
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: part time, using to take the lesser job or the

684
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: non greedy job, there's all of these decisions that snakes

685
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: and ladders game, yes, exactly, and it's sort of and

686
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: it's not just what the women's decisions are occurring, But importantly,

687
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 2: what decisions are we offering? And this is the power

688
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 2: of things like gender pay gaps and data and enlightening

689
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: the whole range of people that make up an enterprise.

690
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: So it's something that the women themselves would do, something

691
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: that their managers will do, male or female, it's something

692
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: that CEOs and boards will do. We start to have

693
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: this wider cumulative effect. But it's not about women's choices

694
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 2: because those choices are ultimately constrained, not just in terms

695
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: of stepping away from the workforce for a period of time,

696
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: but what happens to them when they step back in.

697
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 2: Now importantly, that's same thing, and I can speak about

698
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: this because it's my PhD study. That same thing happens

699
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: to men. They reduced their capital and face discrimination in

700
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 2: terms of if they become a primary caregiver. Now that's crazy,

701
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: isn't it? Something incredible about what's going on in organizations,

702
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 2: and that is that we have this ideal worker norm

703
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: that is full time, no career breaks, always available to

704
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: the organization, and anyone that works outside of that framework

705
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 2: is reduced capital. And so that's how gender plays out

706
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: in organizations because it's usually the women and do you

707
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: know what? It is crazy how that conversation happens.

708
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: And I'm going to talk about my husband a lot here,

709
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 3: because when I had Harvey, my son, eighteen months ago,

710
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 3: my husband was the primary care I had work, I

711
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: had stuff to do. He took six months off and

712
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 3: that was the plan, and like we were both really

713
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: happy with that. He has a very good career. So

714
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 3: this isn't something where I was like, Oh, you can

715
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: afford to take the time off. It was actually just

716
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 3: a conscious decision that he was like, no, I really

717
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 3: want to do that, Like what an opportunity. It wasn't

718
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 3: because we needed needed it. We could have worked it out,

719
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: but like he saw that. The conversations that surrounded that

720
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: decision to me were insane, like just people going, oh,

721
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: your wife.

722
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: Doesn't want to do that. Oh is your wife taking

723
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: off any time? What does that look like?

724
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 3: How are you going to know what to do with

725
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 3: the baby? What are you going to do during What

726
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 3: is going to happen to your career? And they're just

727
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: questions and conversations that I just know if I had

728
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 3: worked in a corporate environment and put my hand up

729
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 3: and said hello, I'm having a baby and I'm going

730
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 3: to take six months off. People would have applauded me

731
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 3: for only taking six months instead of twelve r whereas

732
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 3: literal managers of my husband were saying, Oh, what's going

733
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: to happen to your career?

734
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: Sorry?

735
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: You don't care about women in the same way like

736
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 3: when men start to do things that you stereotypically think

737
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 3: are women's business, you seem to all of sudden actually

738
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 3: care about their career trajectory or what's going to happen

739
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: with your superannuation if you're not contributing for six months?

740
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 2: Sorry.

741
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: I don't think any corporate entity says that to the

742
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 3: women that are taking twelve months plus off, like oh,

743
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: what if you don't want to return?

744
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: What if?

745
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: Like that just frustrated me beyond belief because I just thought, Oh,

746
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 3: that'll be easy, like your parental leave policy. Your workplace

747
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 3: is really good, that's fantastic. But all of a sudden,

748
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: it was those additional layers of conversation that we're being

749
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 3: had because it was a surprise that the male in

750
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 3: my relationship was making those decisions. And I think a

751
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 3: lot of people had just assumed that the parental leaf

752
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 3: policy was made to benefit women, but it didn't did it?

753
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 4: No?

754
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 2: So it was for me a really eye.

755
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 3: Opening conversation because thankfully we work in or I work

756
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: in finance and I work in this space. And like,

757
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: even though this conversation is about women, I wasn't having

758
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 3: my husband be like negatively acted by that. I was like, okay, cool,

759
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 3: so old contribute to super will do this, We'll do that.

760
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: Like everything was like exactly how I think most people

761
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 3: should run it. But the conversations that surrounded that pay

762
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 3: gap seemed to take priority because he's a man and

763
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: he needs a career, And there really with me insane.

764
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. They're so real and tangible. It's such

765
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 2: a great example, and I think that what we're really

766
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 2: trying to do is not I get we're not demonizing

767
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: anybody in any normalization. We're not demonizing men, not demonizing women.

768
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: You know, there's lots of thing about childless women, and

769
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: you know that women don't help other women, Like there's

770
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: all of this rhetoric out there, But the fact is

771
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: that education, as you know, and enlightenment, is the first step.

772
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 2: And you know, people do things and make decisions that

773
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: are often uninformed or they come from a place if

774
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: they just don't know better. I mean, you organize ations.

775
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: One really profound example was interviewing a couple who had

776
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: worked for the same public sector organization. They reduced their

777
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 2: work hours so that they could look after their children

778
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: and share the load. So they were trying to do

779
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: a shared care arrangement. Now, when the woman put in

780
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: her form and spoke to her manager about her preferred options,

781
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: it was signed off and that's all good and fine.

782
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 2: When the man put in his form, the very first

783
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: thing that the manager said was, so mate, how long

784
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 2: do you want this arrangement form? And I'm interviewing this couple,

785
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: and the woman went, no, one would ever has ed,

786
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: never asked me that had two kids, and she'd gone

787
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 2: part time. You come back early. Yeah, And so that

788
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: just goes to show what sits underneath that policy. That's

789
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 2: the same policy being enacted in the same organization, but

790
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 2: under different leadership circumstances. And that's when we see that

791
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 2: hidden sort of gendered disadvantage because it was assumed that

792
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 2: the father would have a temporary arrange that can't be forever,

793
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: but that it can't be are you sure six months?

794
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: Because what we could do is four months? And then

795
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: you come back part time? Where are those options? When

796
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: women put their hand up?

797
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: I think this is what has obviously amplified my passion

798
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: in this space because I see that the option exists.

799
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 3: So it's not that you know, this was afforded to

800
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 3: you know, the person you interviewed, or it was afforded

801
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 3: to my husband. Can we please have these overlays When

802
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 3: women put their hand up and say I want to

803
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: go on maternity leave, Okay, cool, I'm your manager, love

804
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 3: that for you, But how are we maintaining your career?

805
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: How are we maintaining your superannuation?

806
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 3: You know what flexible work arrangements could I give you

807
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 3: so that you can return earlier and maybe like come

808
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: back at a pacede way as opposed to, oh, well

809
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 3: you can only come back to a full time role.

810
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 3: Because all of us sudden, if I told you that

811
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 3: there was a man in that role, there seems to

812
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 3: be so much more flexibility. And I think that that's

813
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 3: what drives me insane, because we want equal opportunity. I'm

814
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: not asking just for what the men have. I just

815
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: want to have the same opportunity as them.

816
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: And then if I choose to take another six months

817
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: off or take twelve months off or don't return to

818
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: the workforce at all. I want that to be because

819
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: it was my choice, not because I got offered beef

820
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: or chicken and I only had two options to choose from,

821
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: and I actually am vegetarian, so I had to actually

822
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: opt out of the conversation completely and not have part

823
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: time and not have full time because neither of those

824
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: things met my criteria. So I just it actually drives

825
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 2: me wild because the deep you dig and you would

826
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 2: have found this, and I'm honestly envious you got to

827
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: do a PhD one day.

828
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 3: One day I will become doctor Divine and I will

829
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 3: do a PhD's area. Actually divine, it sounds good right,

830
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: Like I could. I could be a doctor or a

831
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 3: stripper like I've been. Both would work the last.

832
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: Day today you can do, you know what I mean?

833
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 2: Like people already ask me if Divine is my stage name.

834
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 4: It's not.

835
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 3: It's my literal family name, but like, imagine doctor Divine. Anyway,

836
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 3: this just grinds my gears in a way that I'm like,

837
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 3: how much more do we have to do to actually

838
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: facilitate change? And how do people not see this as

839
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: being as important as I'm seeing it like, am I

840
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 3: seeing it from a delusional side of the road because

841
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: it just looks like there's a whole heap going on,

842
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: and then from the other side of the road you

843
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 3: can see a rainbow. I can't see that right now,

844
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, for me, it's more about just

845
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: equal opportunity, Like it's not necessarily you have to pay

846
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: that woman exactly what you pay a man. We already

847
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: established at the start of this episode that's actually illegal.

848
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 2: It's actually putting on the table all of the options,

849
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: the options, and expanding those options. I mean, I think

850
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: we see a lot of disparity, particularly in pay gaps

851
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: at the senior most senior levels. That's actually the biggest

852
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 2: dollar for dollar pay gap once we get up into

853
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: that because compounding interest it's like investing. Think you get

854
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: the worse it looks. And there's this real sense that

855
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: you can only be a leader, say in an organization

856
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: working full time. Well that instantly you know many women

857
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 2: would self select out yep of that to guys, we

858
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 2: don't want beef, we don't want chickens. That's right. Sorry,

859
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: what about if we actually flipped the script and leanked

860
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: into this to go truly all roles are flex and

861
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: when we're looking at our leadership programs, we're not necessarily

862
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 2: doing special leadership programs for women, because doesn't that just

863
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: say that they've got to make up for something else.

864
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 2: How about we get all the leaders in the room

865
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,720
Speaker 2: and help them to provide a gender equal experience across

866
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 2: every little option and the employee life cycle, like flexible

867
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 2: work practices, like recruiting, like paying pay for performance, thinking

868
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 2: about these things in just a more meaningful way. You

869
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: don't actually have to do anything except think differently and

870
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: then apply those skills in a different way. And I

871
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 2: guess you know, equal pay days a moment to reflect

872
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: on that, and we really want to encourage all facets

873
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: and areas of the business and the workplace to think

874
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 2: about things differently, not just women having to raise their

875
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: voices at work and having to pursue this, but get

876
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: informed and then think about it critically and then think

877
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: about taking action. And we've got lots of resources that with.

878
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: And I think that's a good example of it's not

879
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: just the women's issue, it's everybody's issue. Wi Ja recently

880
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 3: released I would say some pretty eye opening data. So

881
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 3: just specifical ways, but like specifically this year, and I

882
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 3: know you've come very prepared. So for you, what has

883
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: stood out the most in the data that's been recently released.

884
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think overall, when we have a look

885
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 2: at the gender pay gap as a trend, what is startling.

886
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: It is coming down. So I think that is a

887
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,760
Speaker 2: really plus to say it. Yeah, it's a really positive

888
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 2: compounding interest. We want it to see bit faster extrapolate

889
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 2: over time. So this year can take a little bit, yeah, longer,

890
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: that's fine. Next year has to be quicker, though, and

891
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: I think that we will start to see that. I think,

892
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 2: you know, going back to the legislative changes, we know

893
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: that even at the GA data showed a decline, there

894
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: is this anticipatory effect of having to report this kind

895
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 2: of data. So, you know, the national gender pay gap

896
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 2: twenty one point as still not great. Let us do

897
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: small goals like let's just get it under twenty that

898
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: cook and how do we help organizations to learn what's

899
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 2: going to work for them in their organizations to bring

900
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: that down, you know, to contribute to that in a

901
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: meaningful way, because that's going to be different depending on

902
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 2: where women are working at what levels, in what roles,

903
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: how much they're getting paid, who's entering, importantly, who's staying

904
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 2: in your organization or exiting, which is another form of

905
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 2: data that's really powerful. But overall the scorecard has shows

906
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 2: absolute potential. We know that more organizations and this is

907
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: the thing that made me excited course for celebration, was

908
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 2: we know more organizations are doing a gender pay gap

909
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 2: analysis as they should. Yes, as they should, and it's

910
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 2: something that that is really increased and increased in focus.

911
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: So organizations are attuned to this starting to come on

912
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: their radar. What also is important is that we found

913
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: that there was an increase in them taking action. So

914
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 2: whilst again you know that policy to walk the absolutely

915
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 2: you can sit there on a shelf in a handbook,

916
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 2: but you actually need to pursue it. And so when

917
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: you find out what's happening in your organization through the

918
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: gender pay gap, then you need to take action and

919
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: importantly take the rightful action. So don't just stick your

920
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 2: ladder on any old wall. You want to make sure

921
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 2: that it's on the right wall, because you know, if

922
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: you're climbing up, you don't want to find out you're

923
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: on the wrong wall.

924
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent, and I feel like that really

925
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 3: ties into the theme that you guys have this year,

926
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 3: which is how does your employer measure up? When's your

927
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 3: equal pay Day? Which I guess encourages all of us

928
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 3: to have a look at our own workplaces. And the

929
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 3: real question I have here is like, how we're in

930
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 3: the car, are we driving to work and we thanking God?

931
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 3: That feels like a very big thing to be doing.

932
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 3: Like how do we individually go about doing that? Because

933
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 3: good rocks and boats like, and that's not what we're

934
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 3: here to do. We're actually here to facilitate positive change,

935
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 3: Like we're not here to get people mad and riled up.

936
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 2: But how do we actually go about that?

937
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: What should you know, my community be looking for and

938
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 3: just even thinking about, because it's not just about facilitating conversation,

939
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:51,879
Speaker 3: but like thoughtful narratives that we can consider ourselves and go, oh,

940
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 3: how does that work? What does that look like?

941
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: Like? What can we do? What are we looking for?

942
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 2: And what can we actually do once we find a

943
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 2: little bit of data? Yeah, great question. I guess there's

944
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: two responses to that. Well, the first thing on equal Payday,

945
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: if you are listening to this and you're driving to work,

946
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: when you get to work. Log onto the wigeal website,

947
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: have a look at the gender pay gap calculator and

948
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: find out what is the number of days for your

949
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 2: organization based on their gender pay gap, which is all

950
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 2: there on the data explorer on the wigeal website. Confronting

951
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 2: and have it.

952
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: Also, really use a friendly website so there's no experience,

953
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: not true esthetic, very easy to find.

954
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 2: Go for it.

955
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: We'll put the link to that in the show notes

956
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 3: as well, because I'm going to do nothing. If make

957
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: it easy as hell for you to do that, We'll

958
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 3: see you'll be on there all the time. We're old

959
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 3: down a bit. Yeah, it's not even my organization.

960
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: I'm picking up.

961
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 3: I'm just snooping other people being like or they do oh,

962
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 3: I like drive past a billboard and I'm like, what

963
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: do they do?

964
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: So creepy? I love it.

965
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 4: I think in.

966
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: General the community now are calling for this, and then

967
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 2: they see the connections between a gender pay gap, for example,

968
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 2: and thinking about retiring and retiring into poverty, superannuation, those

969
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: kinds of things. So take the time today to go

970
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: and have a look what is your organization's gender pay gap.

971
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: Go and have a look what they've got on their website,

972
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 2: and then I guess start those conversations about the myths

973
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 2: around the gender pay gap, and we cover those off

974
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,959
Speaker 2: early on about it so not equal pay for equal work.

975
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 2: It's actually a total remuneration calculation that considers the whole

976
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: person's life, cause, trajectory, and thinks about discretionary pay, superannuation,

977
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: access to overtime, those kinds of things.

978
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 3: And the wi Gia website has like a whole section

979
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 3: of how to answer those questions as well, because one

980
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: of the things that you know, when I first started

981
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 3: learning about this space, people would say, oh, but that's illegal,

982
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 3: and I kind of go, oh, that's taken me off guard. Well,

983
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 3: I don't know how to respond Tonight, they have all

984
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 3: the responses and they're kind of borderline whishy, which I

985
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: really like. Also on my social media today, I'm going

986
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: to be sharing a lot of the responses to those

987
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 3: questions because I just think that we need to get

988
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 3: past the fact that it doesn't exist.

989
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 2: We know it exists.

990
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 3: Here's how to dismiss that conversation really quickly and then

991
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: turn it into a positive interaction as opposed to it. No,

992
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 3: it's not really like we just don't need that conversation

993
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 3: and kind of dismiss it and move on and actually

994
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 3: be really productive because I will argue till the cows

995
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 3: come home. It is in my nature. Like I don't

996
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: know how to get rid of it. I'm so sorry,

997
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:32,920
Speaker 3: but like it's an acid.

998
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: Look, I'm going to try to be less defensive.

999
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 3: Acknowledged Great, that's actually a misconception, and moving forward. This

1000
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: is what it looks like and this is how you

1001
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: can contribute. And I think that that's really powerful as well.

1002
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we do. We need all kinds

1003
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 2: of voices, and we need not just women, but we

1004
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: need men here as well. I mean again, be like Steve,

1005
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: yes me, Steve, don't we get a T shirt?

1006
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 3: Goes be the sea more like Steppe would be mortified

1007
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 3: as somebody who doesn't like social media, doesn't like to

1008
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 3: be is like your podcast gives me the ick. I

1009
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 3: could never listen to it, like proud of what you do, babe,

1010
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: but like like your voice on repeat, I already married you.

1011
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 2: I get it. I get it. But like be like Steve,

1012
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 2: but happy and women. He's going about it in terms

1013
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: of actions and so in his own quiet way, and

1014
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,040
Speaker 2: that can happen in organizations, and there's certainly opportunities to

1015
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,280
Speaker 2: do those. And again on the website, we talk about strategy,

1016
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: we talk about action planning, we talk about a whole

1017
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 2: range of things from board level all the way down

1018
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,439
Speaker 2: to line manager level, and you're able to be able

1019
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: to find some really useful resources. My team actually run

1020
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,440
Speaker 2: master classes on a whole range of things. How to

1021
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 2: calculate a gender pay gap, how to do a responsive

1022
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 2: action plan, obsessed, how do you design a job so

1023
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: that it can be a part time or job share?

1024
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 2: These kinds of things. As you know, knowledge is power,

1025
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 2: So the more knowledge that you have, the more power

1026
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 2: you have, not just to I guess, bring that into

1027
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: your organization, but importantly thinking about those little decisions that

1028
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: the women themselves are attempting to make in that constrained environment,

1029
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: and to become informed about that. Why would you want

1030
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: to select out of a job because it looks greedy?

1031
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 2: Why would you want to not put your hand up

1032
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: for a role or a promotion or apply for that job,

1033
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 2: throw your hat in the ring, ask them for job share.

1034
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 2: Start to think about things in a very very different way,

1035
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: and I guess what would you what we're trying to

1036
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 2: do is help organizations to be able to receive that

1037
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: ball so that when women are saying, actually, I wouldn't

1038
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: mind being that executive leader of something other than HR

1039
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 2: or sales and marketing, but I would like that you know,

1040
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 2: profit and lost portfolio, Thank you very much, or I

1041
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 2: will take that seat as the chair of the board

1042
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 2: that we're helping. I guess firtile create to ground for

1043
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 2: that within organizations by building their capability to be able

1044
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 2: to catch that ball. So obsessed.

1045
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: It makes me so excited just knowing that you are

1046
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: facilitating this as well, because there's one thing to have

1047
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 3: a government organization that's like, yeah, we prioritize this, but

1048
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 3: like the team inside who are not just doing the

1049
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 3: work but like art champions for women and as obsessed

1050
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 3: with this topic as I am. Just means that I

1051
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 3: know that things are moving like you are actually facilitating

1052
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 3: positive change.

1053
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: Now.

1054
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 3: I know we're running out of time very quickly, which

1055
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 3: is very sad. But if you and I were to

1056
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 3: sit down, Sam and have this conversation again in five years,

1057
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 3: what would you hope looks different. I would hope that

1058
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 3: the gender pay gap has come down. I predict that

1059
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 3: it will.

1060
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 2: I think I predict it too if we poor enough

1061
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,680
Speaker 2: optimism into this. Absolutely, and I'd really like to see

1062
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: the gender pay gap come down at a national level.

1063
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 2: And I would also like that to happen at the

1064
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: industry level as well, that industries are coming together in

1065
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: a more less competitive sense. And of course there's obviously

1066
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 2: business is business. You have to make a profit, but

1067
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: there are things that they can do collectively as an

1068
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 2: industry start to help and gain momentum. I think construction

1069
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: is a really good example at the moment who are

1070
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: really trying to pipeline more women into their industry and

1071
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 2: then also make it more safe and equal when they

1072
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: get there. So I'd really like to see a lot

1073
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 2: more constructive coming together of those communities at the industry level.

1074
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that I would really like

1075
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 2: to see is this understanding that we are not in

1076
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 2: the same environment anymore. That there is I demand both

1077
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: legislatively but also from shareholders, from investors, from communities, from

1078
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: employees that actually is saying we require a gender equal

1079
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 2: experience and we want to find out if we're going

1080
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: to get that in your organization, and how are you

1081
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 2: going to provide that? And to see more of the

1082
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 2: people who make those decisions across all of what I

1083
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 2: call the coalition of influence. That's the boards and the

1084
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: C suites, HR and U, diversity practitioners in organizations, and

1085
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: your line managers all coming together. Educate themselves, get literate.

1086
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: You talk about financial literacy, I want everyone being gender

1087
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: equality literate, understanding how pay gap is calculated, what drives it,

1088
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 2: and how you can change it. At a very basic level.

1089
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: If in five years time we can be sitting here

1090
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 2: having that conversation, I would be absolutely beside myself.

1091
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 3: And I will be I'm going to do that in

1092
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 3: ours maybe not even five years, like let's just do

1093
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 3: a check in every year.

1094
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with it.

1095
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 3: I feel like it's a narrative that I'm seeing in

1096
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 3: our community as well, which makes me really excited, even

1097
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: on an individual level, when people are, you know, talking

1098
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 3: about their investing journey, for example, they are literally looking

1099
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 3: for organizations who champion this. They are looking for organizations

1100
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 3: who you know, we talk about ethical investing, we talk

1101
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 3: about ESG investing, and a part of that ESG conversation

1102
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 3: is gender and I just see so much more of

1103
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: our community really prioritizing looking into that and going does

1104
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 3: that company do that, because I don't want to invest

1105
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 3: if not. And I think that those small things as well,

1106
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 3: just on an individual level, whether you were employed by

1107
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 3: these organizations or not, decisions around that can really impact

1108
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 3: the big picture as well, because we know that companies,

1109
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 3: all the research tells us the companies that champion this

1110
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 3: and prioritize this have high a shareholder return. So ultimately,

1111
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 3: I know you said it's about business, but business is

1112
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 3: better when women are in.

1113
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 2: Power one hundred and even just on that superfront. On

1114
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: a closing argument, one of the things that I learned

1115
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 2: very early on in my career was a woman, Carol Schwartz,

1116
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 2: who is a philanthropist and an absolute gun in terms

1117
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: of gender equality and thinking more intelligently about how we

1118
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 2: create change. She said at this one forum that I

1119
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: was in, every woman who holds a super account has

1120
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 2: to think like an investor. You are an investor. You

1121
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 2: are go and ask how your superannuation is being invested

1122
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 2: if you do nothing else, And it was many pawing moment.

1123
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 2: It's free.

1124
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 3: You can go and do that today, and by the way,

1125
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 3: it'll probably put you in a way better off position

1126
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 3: in retirement. Even if you aren't making extra contributions. And

1127
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 3: I mean we're in the middle of a cost of

1128
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 3: living crisis. We all want a good money when yes,

1129
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: and are they doing it in an ethical way? There

1130
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 3: is such a thing as gender lens investing. There are

1131
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 3: superannuation funds out there are a whole ETFs that prioritize it,

1132
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 3: like there is one ETF on the AX at the

1133
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 3: moment that is only made up of companies that have

1134
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 3: women on the boards.

1135
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, slagh Love, and i'd meaning exactly the point

1136
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: that you made. It's not just about the business, it's

1137
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: actually about thinking about it in a holistic way. And

1138
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 2: we are investors. We have our hard earned superannuation, you know,

1139
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 2: and we should be pursuing that and we should be

1140
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 2: understanding how that's being invested and to do that in

1141
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: a way that amplifies gender equality and a more equal

1142
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: experience for women's girls everywhere. Thank you so much for

1143
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: joining us.

1144
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 3: This has been an exciting, empowering, a little bit frustrating,

1145
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 3: but like very good conversation. I feel like I am

1146
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:37,440
Speaker 3: very excited for the rest of today and what is

1147
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 3: going to come over the next twelve months. O Jia

1148
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: are doing a lot of good work in a lot

1149
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 3: of good spaces, so or make sure to pop all

1150
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 3: of their information in the show notes. You guys can

1151
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 3: go and have a little bit of a sticky beak

1152
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 3: or even maybe a little sticky beak if you want

1153
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 3: to look into your own workplace and what that looks like,

1154
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 3: So make sure you've got access to that. And maybe

1155
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 3: you could even start a few important conversations while you're

1156
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 3: a work today. If not, maybe in your group chats

1157
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 3: with your girlfriends.

1158
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.

1159
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 3: I have appreciated this so much, and we will see

1160
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 3: you guys literally tomorrow on Wednesday for another episode, and

1161
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 3: then again on Friday.

1162
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 4: Bye.

1163
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1164
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 4: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general

1165
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 4: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances. She's

1166
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 4: on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and should

1167
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 4: not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.

1168
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 4: If you do choose to buy a financial product, read

1169
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 4: the PDS TMD and obtain appropriate financial.

1170
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 2: Advice tailored towards your needs.

1171
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 4: Victoria Divine and She's on the Money are authorized representatives

1172
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 4: of Money Shirper Pty Ltd ABN three two one is

1173
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 4: six four nine two seven seven zero eight AFSL four

1174
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 4: five one two eight nine