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Speaker 1: Now joining me live in the studio this morning is

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, Lea Fanocchiiro.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to your Chief Minister.

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Speaker 3: Still mining Katy into your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, sadly, another domestic violence death on the weekend, a

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Speaker 1: man killed at the hands of his partner in Alowa.

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Speaker 1: Police arrested a thirty one year old woman following the

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Speaker 1: alleged stabbing, as well as an attack on another woman. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to the police, the Joint Emergency Services Communications Center

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Speaker 1: responded to reports that both the man and the woman

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Speaker 1: had allegedly been stabbed at a home in Aloha Crescent

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Speaker 1: on Friday night. Now, the man was reported to be unconscious.

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Speaker 1: Police and Saint John Ambulance found the thirty three year

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Speaker 1: old man in a critical condition with stab wounds.

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Speaker 3: He later died.

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Speaker 1: I mean, these horrific incidents, they're happening almost daily, like

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Speaker 1: the terrible incidents of domestic violence. But then we've got

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Speaker 1: domestic violence deaths happening.

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Speaker 2: All too often. What can your.

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Speaker 1: Government do on urgens to try and make some in

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Speaker 1: roads here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, it's a terribly sad situation and obviously our

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Speaker 4: thoughts are with the family and the friends of the deceased,

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Speaker 4: and it's awful, Katie.

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Speaker 3: And you're right, we hear about it all too often.

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Speaker 4: You know, we've committed thirty six million dollars a year ongoing.

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Speaker 4: That's the biggest commitment the government's ever done. Is money

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Speaker 4: the only answer? Absolutely not, And I think we've seen

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Speaker 4: that money often isn't the answer at all.

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Speaker 3: So we've strengthened the laws.

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Speaker 4: There's more work being done, and we should have some

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Speaker 4: new laws ready for introduction in March sittings as well,

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Speaker 4: specifically around this issue of domestic violence. But it's a

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Speaker 4: tragedy and it's I think it's symptomatic of many, many

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Speaker 4: years of permissive laws and policies that haven't clamped down

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Speaker 4: on people who start that offending journey. I think we're

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Speaker 4: just seeing mass escalation in offending because of weak laws

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Speaker 4: for far too long.

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Speaker 1: Where are things that then, with that funding role out,

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Speaker 1: I mean, are we seeing that money hit the ground,

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Speaker 1: and are we seeing things like I know there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of talk about men's behavior change programs and that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff, but what about you know, making sure

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Speaker 1: that women have a safe place to sleep?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, that is really important and that work is

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Speaker 4: ongoing with Minister carl. I know an additional eight point

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Speaker 4: four million has been allocated for twenty four hour frontline services,

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Speaker 4: which is really important. We've also got the Domestic Violence

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Speaker 4: Correspondent model happening at the moment as well.

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Speaker 3: Again, changes to the Sentencing.

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Speaker 4: Act are certainly required and other legal frameworks that we

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Speaker 4: can clamp down, but it's that preventative work as well.

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Speaker 4: You know a lot of people who commit domestic violence

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Speaker 4: were victims of domestic violence as a child or witnessed

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Speaker 4: it as a child, and so we've got to be

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Speaker 4: getting in very very early to make sure there isn't

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Speaker 4: another generation of DV perpetrators because they themselves were victims.

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Speaker 1: All Right, I'm going to move along because we've got

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Speaker 1: a lot to cover off on this morning. And the

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Speaker 1: Law Society of the Northern Territory late last week so

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Speaker 1: that it was disappointed and concerned the media commentary of

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Speaker 1: recent weeks concerning the decision by the Northern Territory Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court to grant bail to a young defendant to attend

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Speaker 1: a funeral in a remote community. Now, Society President Mister

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Speaker 1: Richard Henschke said it is imperative that the media and others,

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Speaker 1: including politicians, who comment publicly on such matters take utmost

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Speaker 1: care to ensure the accuracy of their commentary.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The comments followed a four page statement which was issued

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Speaker 1: by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in response

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Speaker 1: to public commentary concerning the granting of bail to the

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Speaker 1: teenager ten days ago. Chief, it seems to me the

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Speaker 1: law society is concerned by commentary around the granting of

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Speaker 1: bail to that youth involved in an incident which saw

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Speaker 1: the baby's skull fracture. Now we know that obviously, are

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Speaker 1: the Chief Justice also issuing that statement about these considerations

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Speaker 1: required when determining whether to grant compassionate bail.

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Speaker 2: Has this made you in a less.

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Speaker 1: Concerned that the team was granted bail to attend a

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Speaker 1: funeral at a cost of more than seven thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: or has it changed your mind on your comments you've made.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, absolutely not, Katie.

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Speaker 4: And again the community was furious and continue to under

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Speaker 4: to be questioning why this happened. Now, I undertook last

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Speaker 4: week to go away and do some further work on

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Speaker 4: this and that is still ongoing. And I will absolutely

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Speaker 4: let your listeners know if I can get to the

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Speaker 4: bottom of whether or not this is normal practice, whether

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Speaker 4: or not this money has been spent before. Certainly the

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Speaker 4: Chief Justice putting out a statement was highly unusual, and

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Speaker 4: he flagged a couple of areas which raised our eyebrows

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Speaker 4: around what further.

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Speaker 3: Work we can do to strengthen the law. So to

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Speaker 3: that extent we were it.

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Speaker 4: Was useful because we can now look at whether we

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Speaker 4: need to tighten discretion. But I think it also defies

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Speaker 4: or Beggar's belief. You know, the Chief Justice made a

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Speaker 4: comment in his statement about their needing to be that

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Speaker 4: other jurisdictions need the judges to so excuse me, have

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Speaker 4: a high degree of confidence, and I just did have

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Speaker 4: got me thinking, well, we can strengthen the lord to

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Speaker 4: make it say, judges have to have a high degree

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Speaker 4: of confidence, but surely they've got to have a degree.

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Speaker 3: Of confidence before they make the decision.

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Speaker 1: Just I'll take our listeners through that because in the statement,

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Speaker 1: as you touched on there, he said there is no

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Speaker 1: provision in the Northern Territory legislation requiring that bail must

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Speaker 1: not be granted to a youth unless the court has

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Speaker 1: a high degree of confidence now the young person, and

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Speaker 1: so a high degree of confidence that the young person

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Speaker 1: will not commit a further offense while on bail. So

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Speaker 1: I would have thought the same thing, right, I would

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Speaker 1: have thought that you're not actually granting bail unless you

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Speaker 1: do have a high degree of confidence that they're not

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Speaker 1: going to commit a further offense while on bail. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we seem to see that time and time again in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Very often we receive press releases from

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police somebody's been charged, a youth's being charged.

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Speaker 1: They're also being charged with breaching bail. So now looking

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Speaker 1: at strengthening this legislation, is that something that needs to

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Speaker 1: be tightened up. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, So we're already doing a rewrite of the Use

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Speaker 4: Justice Act, so that is already on foot, but we'll

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Speaker 4: now look at this clause and see whether that's required.

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Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, I'm with you, Katie.

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Speaker 4: I would have thought before the judge makes any decision

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Speaker 4: around BAO, they have to have a degree of confidence

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Speaker 4: that they're not going to go on to offend. And

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Speaker 4: as far as I'm concerned, the criteria that was outlined

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Speaker 4: in the statement showed me all the reasons why you

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Speaker 4: wouldn't grunt that person bow, not the reasons why you

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Speaker 4: would have.

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Speaker 2: You met with the Chief Justice about.

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Speaker 4: This, No, I haven't, but the as appropriate the Attorney

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Speaker 4: General has and you know that meeting needs to be

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Speaker 4: a private meeting, you know, between the detected arms, and

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Speaker 4: that's important. But at the end of the day, I'll

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Speaker 4: make sure we strengthen the law if that's what requires

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Speaker 4: is required. I'll make sure that we set a standard

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Speaker 4: within the agencies to make sure that we are not

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Speaker 4: just blindly you know, paying for things. So there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of work that needs to be done because this

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Speaker 4: hasn't been challenge before and it's not well understood.

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Speaker 3: So we're still working through it.

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Speaker 1: So just on the funeral cost and whether that has

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Speaker 1: happened before. You mentioned that you've met with the department.

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Speaker 3: Has it happened before, So it's unclear.

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Speaker 4: This is quite an unusual situation in that Corrections could

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Speaker 4: have just said yep, all right, we'll bow the youth

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Speaker 4: for the day. They decided not to because it was

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Speaker 4: too high risk and they didn't have the resources. So

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Speaker 4: that then meant because the territory was the parent. Because

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Speaker 4: the child is under the care and protection, the territory

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Speaker 4: has to act like the parent. And so I think

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Speaker 4: for me, there's broader questions around and there's parents listening

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Speaker 4: right now. As parents, we all have to draw lines

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Speaker 4: in the sand about what we can do for our kids,

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Speaker 4: how much we can afford. And so I don't necessarily

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Speaker 4: think that going forward, just because the territory is quote

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Speaker 4: unquote the parent means that the territory has to take

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Speaker 4: extreme risk and extreme cost to facilitate something. Now, there

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Speaker 4: are plenty of people who miss funerals, including your listeners,

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Speaker 4: who decide that they can't afford to go into state

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Speaker 4: for the funeral or the children can't come with them.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we have to have compassion in these situations.

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Speaker 4: But also there's a realism that comes for ordinary parents.

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Speaker 4: There has to be a realism that comes for the

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Speaker 4: territory when it's a parent too.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it does sound as though you're seeking some

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Speaker 1: further insformation from the department. Still, I'll be very interested

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Speaker 1: to see what comes back there. It also looks like

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Speaker 1: or sounds like you are looking at this part of

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Speaker 1: you know, this provision or there being no provision in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory legislation requiring that bail must not be

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Speaker 1: granted to a youth unless the court has got a

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Speaker 1: high degree of confidence. So is there the possibility here

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Speaker 1: that your government's going to change that legislation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, it's certainly in the mix now, Katie, and

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Speaker 4: we're just working through that now. And our rewrite of

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Speaker 4: the Youth Justice Act is something we are really looking

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Speaker 4: forward to, as I'm sure your listeners are as well.

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Speaker 4: So you know we've done our reducing crime package with

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Speaker 4: Declan's Law, knife crime, news is public drinking, minimum, mandatory

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Speaker 4: sentencing for assaults on work is a whole range of

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Speaker 4: other things. And we've always said there's more work to do.

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Speaker 4: Last Parliament we gave police better powers to enter premises,

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Speaker 4: so that works on going and we'll just keep working

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Speaker 4: at it till we get it right.

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Speaker 2: On the Youth Justice Act.

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Speaker 1: Now, somebody listener did get in contact with us and

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Speaker 1: raised with a section sixty.

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Speaker 2: Four A of the Youth Justice Act.

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Speaker 1: Now this section says Youth Justice Court may dismiss charges

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Speaker 1: so as sixty four A Section one, subject to sub

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Speaker 1: Section two, the Youth Justice Act may at any stage

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Speaker 1: of the proceedings against a youth in respect of an offense,

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Speaker 1: dismiss the charge in respect of the offense, whether or

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Speaker 1: not the court finds the charge proven against the youth.

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Speaker 1: Now I am not a legal expert. Oh I'm certainly

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Speaker 1: not professing to know the Youth Justice Act inside and out.

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Speaker 1: But from the outset of that me reading that, I

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Speaker 1: read that to me that at any point the court

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Speaker 1: can dismiss charges which the police have laid against a youth.

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Speaker 2: That could be very serious.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and our legislation is way too broad. So Queensland

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Speaker 4: and New South Wales do have very similar provisions, but

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Speaker 4: they are a bit tighter. So this section sixty four

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Speaker 4: A will be part of the Youth Justice rewrite that

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Speaker 4: we're doing, and we'll look at strengthening that. But I mean,

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Speaker 4: I just want to go to your point, perhaps in

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Speaker 4: your opener, Kadi, where we've got the opposition leader coming

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Speaker 4: out swinging on our bail laws. I mean section sixty

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Speaker 4: eight eight is a Labor construct and we've got a.

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Speaker 2: So how long's that section of it been in place?

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Speaker 4: Well, probably since the New Youth's Justice Act under Labour

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Speaker 4: when they did the big rewrite. Quite a few years

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Speaker 4: ago where all of the bail laws were weakened and

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Speaker 4: all of that other stuff. So I think Labour's kidding

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Speaker 4: themselves if they want to have a crack at us

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Speaker 4: for bower laws. We've gone a long way and there's

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Speaker 4: more to go. But I tell you what under Labor

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Speaker 4: people were getting about, left, right and sent.

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Speaker 1: So can I can I just delve into this a

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Speaker 1: bit more deeply this point in time? Can the court

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Speaker 1: dismiss any charges that have been laid against youth if

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Speaker 1: they see fit?

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Speaker 4: Look, I won't answer that, Katie, only because I don't

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Speaker 4: exactly know the answer. It certainly reads that way and

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Speaker 4: it's certainly been told to me that it is too broad. Queensland,

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Speaker 4: as I said, Pensland and Youth outwise do have similar provisions.

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Speaker 3: Can we make a kit tighter? Absolutely?

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Speaker 4: So I'm throwing that section into the Youth Justice Act

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Speaker 4: rewrite so that the right people can look at it.

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Speaker 4: So that'll be police, children and families, Attorney General and

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Speaker 4: Justice and Corrections. They will look at it and come

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Speaker 4: back to us with what we need to do that's better.

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Speaker 4: And I'll try to get an answer to you on that.

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Speaker 3: So you can let your listeners know.

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Speaker 1: So when are you expecting that that rerise of the

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Speaker 1: Youth Justice Act is going to sort of be ready

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Speaker 1: to go?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we're looking to midyears. So obviously, if

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Speaker 4: it can be done sooner, we absolutely will. But we

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Speaker 4: want it to be really comprehensive as well. And because

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Speaker 4: it touches on a number of agencies, we've really pulled

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Speaker 4: together a tea to be able to look at it,

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Speaker 4: and I've been able to put in a lot from say,

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Speaker 4: Strike Force, Trident for example, gave me some on the

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Speaker 4: ground practical measures they'd like to see in it. So

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Speaker 4: that's in the mix, and it's been a really collaborative,

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Speaker 4: front line initiative and we're really looking forward to getting

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Speaker 4: that through.

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Speaker 1: Look, I know some people listening will be thinking, you know,

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Speaker 1: will be putting kids in jail is not the answer.

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Speaker 1: Charging kids is not the answer. There needs to be

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Speaker 1: intervention early. You need to stop them before they get

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Speaker 1: on this track. And look, sure, you know that's all true,

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Speaker 1: it is, but at the end of the day, if

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Speaker 1: there are young people who are committing serious offenses, there

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Speaker 1: also needs to be a consequence to those offenses, and

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Speaker 1: you have.

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Speaker 4: To weigh up their rights versus the community's right to

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Speaker 4: be safe, and that is always a balancing act. But

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Speaker 4: that's exactly what a justice system is for. If you

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Speaker 4: have a young person that shows continued disregard for the

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Speaker 4: law is exhibiting a risk to the community, they have

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Speaker 4: to be dealt with in an environment that means everyone

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Speaker 4: else can go about their day safely. And that's the

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Speaker 4: that's the brutality.

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Speaker 3: Of the system.

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Speaker 4: But if you're doing the right thing, you'll never have

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Speaker 4: a problem. So that's my message to everyone.

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Speaker 3: Just feels a lot.

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Speaker 1: It sounds as though everything is on the table when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the Youth Justice Act and it being rewritten.

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Speaker 1: Not just the age of Criminal Responsibility.

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Speaker 4: Oh absolutely so age of criminal Responsibility is done. The

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Speaker 4: Youth Justice rewrite is looking at all sorts of things

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Speaker 4: that you know, Labor unwound a lot of things, Katie,

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Speaker 4: and you know, we don't have all the answers yet

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Speaker 4: because as we come across something just like last week,

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Speaker 4: it raises up new issues that we need to fix.

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Speaker 4: So the idea behind the rewrite is to pull all

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Speaker 4: the right agencies together to get their feedback on how

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Speaker 4: that act that Labor did has been working and how

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Speaker 4: we can strengthen it to better align to community expectations.

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Speaker 3: So we're very keen to get it done.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to rush it, but I don't want

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Speaker 4: it to drag on, so I would expect by midyear

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Speaker 4: we're good to go.

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Speaker 1: All right, A couple of couple of quick ones, because

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Speaker 1: there are a few things that have come up in

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Speaker 1: the news overnight. One of those is a story in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory News, a damning finding by the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory KAK that a public officer engaged in improper conduct

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Speaker 1: in relation to the recruitment of a friend early last

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Speaker 1: year without proper management around conflict of interest issues. Now

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Speaker 1: what we know is the AYKAK has found a senior

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Speaker 1: executive public officer engaged in improper conduct related to mismanaging

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Speaker 1: a conflict of interest. It seems as though from what

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Speaker 1: I can gather, this person has actually sat on the

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Speaker 1: recruitment panel for somebody who he's also given a reference to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds highly inappropriate.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, Katie, this is obviously very disappointing. The IKAK

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Speaker 4: has made their statement late last week around in proper

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Speaker 4: conduct in mismanagement mismanaging a conflict of interest. So I

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Speaker 4: wrote to the CEO of Chief Minister and Cabinet and

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Speaker 4: to the Public Service Commissioner as well. I want to

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Speaker 4: know what type of education and training we're doing at

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Speaker 4: all levels of government, because recruitment is something that has

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Speaker 4: done right across every agency and every and lots of

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Speaker 4: layers of the agencies. So I'm trying to get a

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Speaker 4: better understanding of what our processes and expectations are and

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Speaker 4: what we can do to further strength and that to

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Speaker 4: make sure that it obviously doesn't happen again.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we saw a situation as I'm sure you're aware.

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Speaker 1: I'm aware Matt Cunningham had written about this on the

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Speaker 1: weekend and about the former Children's Commissioner Colin and Gwin,

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Speaker 1: you know, being dismissed and going through the absolute ringer,

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Speaker 1: to put it mildly, about a similar situation.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, what do you sort of of make

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Speaker 2: of that? What do you make of that?

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Speaker 1: And now the situation that we're seeing with this public

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Speaker 1: servant's not being named, you know, Colin and Gwinn was,

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Speaker 1: as I said, taken through the ringer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, I think this raises other issues around

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Speaker 4: all of the different layers that we have in the

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Speaker 4: territory and so this matter is one done by Ironcake.

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Speaker 4: The Gwin matter was one pushed obviously brought forward by

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Speaker 4: the DPP. And you know that we have the onbuds men,

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Speaker 4: we have a number of integrity mechanisms and so it's

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Speaker 4: about making sure they're all working properly. But I think

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Speaker 4: it's safe to say people will find this very disappointing

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Speaker 4: and frustrating, and you know I share that as well.

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Speaker 4: It's very difficult when you have constraints in an ICAC system.

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Speaker 2: Should that person be able to stay in their job?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think at the end of the day, the

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Speaker 4: IKAC has made a decision not to name for various reasons,

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Speaker 4: and so it's clearly about education then going forward to

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Speaker 4: make sure it doesn't happen again. But you know, people

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Speaker 4: will be you know, it raises a number of questions

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Speaker 4: and that's why I'm seeking that clarity around what do

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Speaker 4: we currently do to make sure there's integrity and processes

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Speaker 4: and what can we do going forward to absolutely retrain

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Speaker 4: make sure everyone understands the importance of managing conflicts going forward.

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Speaker 1: All right, A quick one, we know an industry delegation

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Speaker 1: is this week heading across to the Indo Pacific in

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Speaker 1: an effort to strengthen defense partnerships and expand economic opportunities

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Speaker 1: for the Northern territory. So it's a week long strategic

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Speaker 1: mission led by Defense into and others are going to

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Speaker 1: be meeting with you as defense as well as defense contractors.

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Speaker 2: Are you going or you're not going? On now?

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Speaker 3: Now, I'm not going on this one.

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Speaker 4: It's really important to me that I stay in the

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Speaker 4: territory until I get a few more things done before

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Speaker 4: I head off overseas. And you know, that is an

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Speaker 4: important part of being Chief Minister, but it's not the

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Speaker 4: most important, and I've made a very conscious decision not

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Speaker 4: to be doing.

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Speaker 3: That travel yet.

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Speaker 4: Later in the year, I probably will have to go

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Speaker 4: to Honolulu and Japan in relation to our business connections

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Speaker 4: and obviously our pursuit of defense investment in the territory.

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Speaker 4: But I'll be really open about that as the time,

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Speaker 4: you know, as we get closer in that time. But

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Speaker 4: I've sent a key delegation over and this is really

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Speaker 4: a great opportunity for us to secure more spend here

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Speaker 4: there is This is part of the the United States

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Speaker 4: Force posture initiatives, and so there's a huge amount of

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Speaker 4: money on the table, about fifteen billion, Katie. And so

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Speaker 4: by sending industry over, this is our chance to showcase

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Speaker 4: capability in the territory, really get in front of those

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Speaker 4: United States defense contractors and hopefully secure more investment in

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Speaker 4: partnership with territory businesses here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: Do we know how much it's costing.

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Speaker 4: Yep, this costs about from memory, it's about forty thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars to send an official from the Department and some

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Speaker 4: of the key industry leaders over and hopefully we come

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Speaker 4: back with multiple millions of dollars worth of investment. We

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Speaker 4: won't know by the end of the week, but I

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Speaker 4: know we've laid really strong foundations in that space and

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Speaker 4: the US are a key partner.

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Speaker 2: So you do feel it's money well spent.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely. We have to be in front of contractors. This

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Speaker 4: is our best way to leverage outcomes. Relationship building is

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Speaker 4: really important. So when you're doing business overseas, the relationship

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Speaker 4: is a critical component, not just in Asia, which is

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Speaker 4: well known, but with the United States as well. So

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Speaker 4: this is important work that has to be done. It

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Speaker 4: comes at a cost, but if we don't do it,

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Speaker 4: we almost certainly will miss out.

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Speaker 1: Chief Finister La Finocchiaro will let you go. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Take care everyone,