1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: We do know that the landmark report is going to 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: be released today outlining the path to treaty between the 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Northern Territory Government and Indigenous territorians. Treaty Commissioner Tony McAvoy 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: says that the clear message from years of consultation is 5 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: the need for multiple treaties securing the sovereign status of 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: First Nations people and facilitating their self government. Now, the 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: Treaty Commissioner Tony McAvoy joins me on the line right now. 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Tony. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: Morning, Katie, how are you, yeah. 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: Really well, thanks so much for joining us today, Tony, 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: What has been the clear message from people that you've consulted. 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: With, The very clear messages that First Nations Aboriginal people 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 3: of the Northern Territory want to be able to make 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 3: decisions for themselves about their existence and that sits very 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: neatly and appropriately with the international and now domestic understandings 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 3: of what self determination and self government really meant. 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: And I know that there has been a lot of consultation. 18 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: We're talking a couple of years, I believe for a 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: few years worth of consultation. Who has been consulted with 20 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: and how extensively has that happened. 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 3: So the report, which is released today to the public 22 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 3: outlines the vast extent of the consultation that was undertaken 23 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 3: by the Treaty Commission before my arrival. So I commenced 24 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: work in the Treaty Commission in December twenty twenty one, 25 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: and as had all been undertaken before I arrived, but 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: there was a consultation all around the territory. And since 27 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: my arrival into the role, I have met with Land Council's, 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: community organizations, ministers, advisors, the Anti Opposition leader and the 29 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 3: Shadow Minister of the Treaty. I have met with community 30 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 3: education facilities such as Bachelor Institute, Tea Ley College. I've 31 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: met with many community organizations and they conferred The Aberaginal 32 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 3: community organizations have all concerned their desire to be in 33 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 3: a position where they have a much stronger say about 34 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 3: their exist intend and I must say that my experience 35 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: from the members of the government that I've spoken to 36 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: has been largely very positive, which has led to me 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: indicating to the Minister of the Treaty that I'm willing 38 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 3: to participate further and provide advice as needed to the 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 3: government about this transition. 40 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: To the next stage. 41 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: Tony. I know that some people listening this morning might 42 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: be thinking, you know, what exactly does it mean? What 43 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: does a treaty mean? And what is it going to 44 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: mean for the Northern terra. 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: What I've recommended is that there be a territory wide agreement, 46 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: and in some places those agreements are called can be 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: called treaties. And in that territory wide agreement there will 48 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 3: be set out all the rules and the minimum standards 49 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: by which individual first nations can negotiate their own treaty 50 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 3: with the territory government and hopefully with the Commonwealth government. 51 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: And what that will involve. 52 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: Is a range of things. Usually we know from international experience. 53 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: It involves some discussion about the way in which self 54 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: government has exercised. But it also. 55 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: Involves the transition of power so that. 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 3: Those communities get to make decisions for themselves. It involves 57 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: the transition of resources so that they have their funds 58 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 3: to do the things that need to be done. It 59 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 3: involves reparation for past activities, and there are international models 60 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 3: for how those reparations are calculated. And these discussions in 61 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: that respect that I foreshadowed in the report are no 62 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: different to the discussions that are being held right now 63 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 3: in Victoria by the Victorian First People Assembly with the 64 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: Victorian Government about what their treaty framework might look like. 65 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: Tony, there is you know, discussion at different times that 66 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: you know that sometimes, you know, movements like this can 67 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: be more virtue signaling than real opportunity or real change 68 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: for Indigenous Territorians. Will this you know, if we are 69 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: able to get to the point where the path is 70 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: forged ahead and you know a treaty between the Northern 71 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: Territory government and Indigenous Territorians is indeed does indeed happen? 72 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: You know, do you think that this will make real 73 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: change to the lives of Territorians and not just be 74 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: a situation where it feels as though it's a symbol. 75 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely, it will make real change. There's the people who 76 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 3: talk about virtue signaling through the treaty process do not 77 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: have a real deep understanding of the consequences of living 78 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 3: in a on your own country as a disempowered person, 79 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 3: and Aboriginal people across Australia understand that the true damage 80 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 3: that that does to our communities where decisions are made 81 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 3: in Darwin or our springs about the allocation of resources. 82 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 3: It is so disempowering. And one of the things that 83 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: came from very clear in the consultation is how how 84 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: deeply hurt Abiginal people were in communities all across the 85 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: Northern Territory by the removal of their community council the 86 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 3: creation of the super Shires, and that had an effect 87 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: right down on the ground level about how people engage, 88 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: where jobs were placed, what things are goodten priority, and 89 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 3: so it's far from virtue signaling. It's almost the opposite 90 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 3: of virtue signaling in my assessment, Tony. 91 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: What are the steps now? What is the pathway forwards here? 92 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 2: So there are a number of things that need to happen. 93 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: As first steps, and they can happen at the same 94 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 3: time in my view, and that's the way I've expressed 95 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: it in the report. Firstly is that the Treaty Commissioners 96 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: at twenty twenty has done its job and it needs. 97 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: To be replaced by what I've labeled a Treaty. 98 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 3: And Truth Commission Act and a truth telling process be 99 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 3: established in the Northern Territory so that the stories of 100 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: those old people who still remember the things that happened 101 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: the Northern Territory, and there are many of those people 102 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: still around get to tell those stories if they want to, 103 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 3: and have them recorded so that they don't pass into 104 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: the into the cobbles of history. And so that's that's 105 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 3: an important first step there, establishing of the Treaty and 106 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 3: Truth Commission Act. 107 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: That The second thing is that. 108 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: I've recommended that there'd be a territory wide First Nations 109 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: forward and bring all these first nations together so that 110 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 3: they can decide what a first Nation's voice for the 111 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: Northern Territory will look like. And there's a there's a 112 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: number of different ways that that can happen, and I 113 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 3: reached the view that it was not for me to 114 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: make decisions about how what that looked like. It had 115 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 3: to be come from the Northern Territory. 116 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 2: First nation of people. So we will I expect to see. 117 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 3: A body, maybe not this similar to the First People 118 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 3: Ascended Victoria or the National First Nation's Mois to Parliament. 119 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 3: I expect to see that being established in the in 120 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: the Northern Territory in the in the near future. 121 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: Tony, how important is it that we get these right 122 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. 123 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: For the future of the territory. I think this is 124 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: the This is a once in a generation opportunity. The 125 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: circumstances which exist here in the Northern Territory don't exist 126 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 3: anywhere else in Australia where you have you had this 127 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 3: situation here where last huge amounts of the territory are 128 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 3: owned already owned by Abridginal people through the Aberage Landline 129 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: Tact and through the native tidal processes including the coastal waters. 130 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: You have regional councils where that most of the councilors 131 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 3: across all of the councils our Aboriginal people, have been 132 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 3: democratically elected. You have a cabinet which is one made 133 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 3: up one third of Aboriginal people, and the population which 134 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: is one for our Aboriginal people. This is the place 135 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 3: where proper, respectful change can happen and it can sertainly 136 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 3: lead the way and show the rest of the country 137 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 3: how to do it. Problem well. 138 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: Treaty Commissioner Tony McAvoy, We really appreciate your time this morning. 139 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with us, and 140 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: no doubt there is going to be a lot more 141 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: discussion throughout the day as that report is indeed handed down. 142 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having a chat. 143 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: With me and thank you very much for the time 144 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: to speak to your listeners. 145 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: Thanks Tony, we appreciate it.