WEBVTT - Three Cases for Truth and Justice

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<v Speaker 1>Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdicts against all three defendants.

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<v Speaker 2>It was absolute shambles, to tell you the truth, just

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely really coming.

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<v Speaker 1>Blood on his clothing the day after the alleged a

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<v Speaker 1>top on a shallow mud bank and it fits through

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<v Speaker 1>a river.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, I think most of the people are used to

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<v Speaker 2>me are good people.

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<v Speaker 1>I think a really important question we need to ask

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<v Speaker 1>is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the

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<v Speaker 2>blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of

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<v Speaker 2>our justice system and ask who are the victims.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Amy Maguire and I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate

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<v Speaker 1>for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. And a warning, this

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<v Speaker 1>series contains the names of deceased peoples and has distressing

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<v Speaker 1>content that might upset some listeners.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Curtain the podcast. In a very early episode,

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<v Speaker 2>we spoke to a journalist Phil Dickie, who won the

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<v Speaker 2>Gold Walkley for exposing police corruption in Queensland in the

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighties. Another person who won a Walkley during that

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<v Speaker 2>time for the same sort of work was Chris Masters

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<v Speaker 2>from four Corners on ABC during the time both Phil

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<v Speaker 2>Dicky and Chris Masters were investigating corruption in the Queensland

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<v Speaker 2>Police force. It related to everything from criminal syndicates involved

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<v Speaker 2>with the police, to police taking bribes, corruption, money racketeering

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<v Speaker 2>and money laundering, and a large amount of corruption that

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<v Speaker 2>involved Queensland Police officers being known as a brotherhood and

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<v Speaker 2>part of what was then known as the Joke. This

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<v Speaker 2>startling new information about what occurred back in those days.

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<v Speaker 2>As you heard from Phil Dicky early in this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a very dangerous thing, even to be a

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<v Speaker 2>journalist working for the largest media organization in Australia to

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<v Speaker 2>be investigating the corrupt police in Queensland. At that time.

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Masters was working for the ABC and most would

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<v Speaker 2>assume that a journalist working for the ABC would be

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<v Speaker 2>a protected individual who the police wouldn't threaten nor harass.

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<v Speaker 2>But so great was the corruption in Queensland at the

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<v Speaker 2>time amongst police that new information has been revealed that

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<v Speaker 2>an Australian Federal police officer named Dave Moore was assigned

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<v Speaker 2>to watch Chris Masters. He wasn't assigned to watch Chris Masters,

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<v Speaker 2>a journalist from one of the most important current Affairs

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<v Speaker 2>programs in Australia. Because Chris Masters was doing anything wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>he wasn't assigned because the AFP were worried that criminal

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<v Speaker 2>elements in Queensland posed a risk to Chris Masters. The

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<v Speaker 2>AFP were concerned that Chris Masters was at very real

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<v Speaker 2>threat from corrupt members of the Queensland Police Force. During

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<v Speaker 2>that time, the Australian Federal Police had a secret role

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<v Speaker 2>in protecting the former Four Corners reporter, and AFP resources

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<v Speaker 2>were spent keeping mister Masters safe. So out of hand

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<v Speaker 2>did this become, And I should say that it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>appear that Chris Masters knew he was being looked after

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<v Speaker 2>by the AFP at the time, But the Australian Federal

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<v Speaker 2>Police became so concerned about the behavior of the Queensland

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<v Speaker 2>Police Force that they were worried that something drastic would

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<v Speaker 2>happen to Chris Masters, whether that be violence committed against

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<v Speaker 2>mister Masters, plans to discredit him and the work he

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<v Speaker 2>was doing, to show their corruption, and even a plan

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<v Speaker 2>to frame Chris Masters by corrupt police officers to destroy

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<v Speaker 2>his reputation and to destroy the work he was doing.

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<v Speaker 2>To look at everything that was going on in Queensland.

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Masters uncovered so much and so did Phil Dicky,

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<v Speaker 2>that it led to the Fitzgerald Inquiry. But largely their

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<v Speaker 2>efforts of these two outstanding journalists focused on Southeast Queensland.

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<v Speaker 2>The Fitzgerald Inquiry did look at things that were happening

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<v Speaker 2>around the state, but not in any great detail. What

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<v Speaker 2>we need to know is what did the Fitzgerald Inquiry

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<v Speaker 2>miss What was going on in Queensland at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>in places like Rockhampton in Cannes and Townsville in Gladstone,

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<v Speaker 2>in Mount Isa in Cape York, right across the state

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<v Speaker 2>outside of Brisbane and the Gold Coast. Because if so

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<v Speaker 2>many police officers were corrupt at the time in Queensland

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<v Speaker 2>that the Australian Federal Police feared for the life of

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<v Speaker 2>a prominent ABC journalist, surely we can't believe that the

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<v Speaker 2>problem was confined simply to Brisbane and to the Gold Coast.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, as you've heard from this podcast, it wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>confined to that area at all. This week marks two

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<v Speaker 2>years since Four Corners, the same program Chris Masters worked

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<v Speaker 2>for exposing corruption in Queensland police, exposed the abuse of

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<v Speaker 2>young children in the Northern Territory at the Dondale Detention Center.

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<v Speaker 2>From that footage, most of you will know the name

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<v Speaker 2>Dylan Volla, a young Aboriginal boy who was placed in

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<v Speaker 2>Guantanamo Bay style restraints and hoods. We also saw repeated

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<v Speaker 2>abuse of young Aboriginal boys in the detention center, including

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<v Speaker 2>violence committed against them, sexual acts, the recording of the

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<v Speaker 2>young boys in the showers by prison guards, and much more.

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<v Speaker 2>As you all know, and as we've spoken about on

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast, there was a royal commission into what happened

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<v Speaker 2>at don Dale. The findings have been handed down, and

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<v Speaker 2>yet despite everything we saw with our own eyes, not

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<v Speaker 2>a single corrections officer has been charged with any of

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<v Speaker 2>the abuse that took place. What makes this relevant today

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<v Speaker 2>and particularly this week, marking two years since we all

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<v Speaker 2>saw that footage on ABCTV, is the startling new revelation

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<v Speaker 2>that the second youth detention center in the Northern Territory

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<v Speaker 2>is now suffering the same levels of chronic abuse against children.

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<v Speaker 2>The Alice Springs Detention Center for Youth is now two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and seventy times percent its capacity that overcreding has

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<v Speaker 2>called caused an increase in abuse, an increase of assaults

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<v Speaker 2>and young children who are from the Alice Springs area

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<v Speaker 2>being transferred to Darwin without their parents and family being

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<v Speaker 2>notified and with no way to contact their family. Clearly,

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<v Speaker 2>after two years, clearly after the nation saw what went on,

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<v Speaker 2>that Royal Commission has been a total failure. Clearly again,

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<v Speaker 2>what it shows is that without charges and criminal action

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<v Speaker 2>being taken against abusive prison guards and police officers, things

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<v Speaker 2>simply will not change. Since Federation in nineteen oh one,

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<v Speaker 2>only four police officers or corrective services officers have been

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<v Speaker 2>charged with the deaths of Aboriginal people in custody. None

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<v Speaker 2>have ever been convicted. Just in the last twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>years since the Royal Commission into Black Deaths in custody,

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<v Speaker 2>there's been four hundred deaths and we're meant to believe

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<v Speaker 2>that none of them were the result of criminal actions

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<v Speaker 2>by Corrective Services guards or police. And yet we know

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<v Speaker 2>the stories, We've seen the footage, We've seen and heard

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<v Speaker 2>what happened to Mulrunji, We've seen the CCTV of what

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<v Speaker 2>happened to Miss Due. Tragically, we've never seen nor heard

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<v Speaker 2>what happened to Miss Marr on the Central Coast. But

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<v Speaker 2>we're led to believe a young woman simply died in

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<v Speaker 2>custody of natural causes, having been arrested for no reason whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 2>This week in Sydney an inquest into the death of

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<v Speaker 2>another Aboriginal person, and before I go any further, I

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<v Speaker 2>do want to warn that some of the information will

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<v Speaker 2>be distressing and the case I'll be discussing is that

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<v Speaker 2>of the departed David Dunge and his family members who

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<v Speaker 2>may be listening might not want to hear some of

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<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about today, although I should say during

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<v Speaker 2>the inquest into his death in Sydney, his family have

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<v Speaker 2>been present every single day and have been sitting there

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<v Speaker 2>hearing the horrendous failures of the system that led to

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<v Speaker 2>the death of their son, their brother, their uncle. Sadly,

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<v Speaker 2>the tragic death of David Dungae Jor inside Long Bay

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<v Speaker 2>Jail teaches us much about the debts in custody that

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<v Speaker 2>continue to take place. The reason we know so much

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<v Speaker 2>is because it was all court on camera, and yet

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<v Speaker 2>despite his death, no one has been charged, and even

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<v Speaker 2>though there's an inquest in the coroner's court going on

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<v Speaker 2>at the moment, my personal opinion is that it is

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<v Speaker 2>unlikely someone will be charged as a result. The family

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<v Speaker 2>deserve answers as to what happened. But if we have

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<v Speaker 2>another inquest, another royal commission, where criminal actions appear to

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<v Speaker 2>take place and nobody is charged or convicted, it appears

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<v Speaker 2>nothing will change and more lives will be lost for

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<v Speaker 2>those who aren't aware. I run briefly through what happened

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<v Speaker 2>to David dunga Jor. He was in Sydney's Long Bay Jail.

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<v Speaker 2>He had a number of chronic medical conditions, one of

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<v Speaker 2>them included diabetes. On the day of his death, David

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<v Speaker 2>was eating biscuits in his cell. He was told by

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<v Speaker 2>corrective services to stop eating the biscuits. He refused. Now

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<v Speaker 2>there's a good explanation why David might have been eating

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<v Speaker 2>those biscuits. They were sweet biscuits, and he had insulin

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<v Speaker 2>dependent diabetes. It's quite possible David, having lived with this

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<v Speaker 2>condition for so long, was self managing his diabetes. Knowing

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<v Speaker 2>that his glucose levels were dropping, he was eating the

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<v Speaker 2>biscuits to raise those levels. He was possibly experiencing a

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<v Speaker 2>foggy mind, blurred vision, and all the symptoms many diabetics

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<v Speaker 2>would be familiar with. Either way, the consumption of a

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<v Speaker 2>tim Tam biscuit in Australian prison cell should be of

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<v Speaker 2>no concern to prison officers, But when David refused to

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<v Speaker 2>stop eating the biscuits, Corrective Services decided their course of

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<v Speaker 2>action was to storm his prison cell, and they did

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<v Speaker 2>just that. Multiple guards entered David's prison cell and forcibly

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<v Speaker 2>removed him, under great duress from his cell. They then

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<v Speaker 2>placed him face down in a very dangerous position with

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<v Speaker 2>his face down and his neck bent. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>position that often leads to what's known as positional asphyxia,

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<v Speaker 2>where quite simply the person cannot breathe, and David couldn't breathe.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, he was yelling out to the prison guards

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<v Speaker 2>he couldn't breathe. He said this on twelve separate occasions.

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<v Speaker 2>As a result, the Corrective Services officers who had wrestled

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<v Speaker 2>David onto a bed and were pinning him to that

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<v Speaker 2>bed with knees in his back, hands on the back

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<v Speaker 2>of his head, kneeling all over him, had a prison

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<v Speaker 2>nurse administer a sedative drug. That drug is known as

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<v Speaker 2>mit asylum and it's regularly used in emergency wards to

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<v Speaker 2>sedate people who may be distressed who need to be

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<v Speaker 2>managed by the a medical staff who may be experiencing seizures,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's done so by trained doctors who were used

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<v Speaker 2>to dealing with a medical with medical emergencies day in,

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<v Speaker 2>day out. But midasoleum also has a more sinister use

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States since the banning by the European

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<v Speaker 2>Union of the distribution to the US of pentobarbital for

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<v Speaker 2>the lethal injection, Mydasolem is used as a three drug

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<v Speaker 2>cocktail in lethal injections. That is, it's a death penalty drug.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it doing in our prison system? Mydasoleum is

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<v Speaker 2>a very strong sedative. David was already saying he couldn't breathe,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet at no point did the corrective services officers

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<v Speaker 2>lift their knees out of his back. At no point

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<v Speaker 2>did they roll him over and allow him to breathe easier.

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<v Speaker 2>At no point did they move him from the position

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<v Speaker 2>that leads to positional asphyxia. David was struggling for breath,

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<v Speaker 2>and not long after he'd said for the final time

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<v Speaker 2>he couldn't breathe, his heart stopped. At some point in

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<v Speaker 2>this period, when his heart stopped, an injection of mitersolum

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<v Speaker 2>was administered and a second injection was called for now.

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<v Speaker 2>It was only at this point that the guards started

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<v Speaker 2>to believe David's cries that he couldn't breathe, and resuscitation

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<v Speaker 2>attempt began. But emergency physician Professor Anthony Brown has told

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<v Speaker 2>the inquest that the heart failure David Dungey suffered was

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<v Speaker 2>not like a normal heart attack. It's not where the

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<v Speaker 2>heart continues to beat and yet the person is unconscious.

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<v Speaker 2>The type of cardiac arrest or heart attack that David

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<v Speaker 2>suffered is one where the heart stops completely, and so

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<v Speaker 2>for someone to be successfully resuscitated requires immediate medical attention,

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<v Speaker 2>trained staff, and constant fundamental basic life support until paramedics arrive.

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<v Speaker 2>None of that took place. We don't know for how

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<v Speaker 2>long exactly David was still restrained despite his heart having stopped.

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<v Speaker 2>We do know that although CPR was performed and cardiac

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<v Speaker 2>massage was performed, those performing it were not properly trained.

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<v Speaker 2>We also know that at one point they stopped performing

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<v Speaker 2>the cardiac massage for eight minutes. How is anyone expected

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<v Speaker 2>to survive? Footage of the resuscitation attempts also shows that

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<v Speaker 2>a suction device used in keeping a person alive in

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<v Speaker 2>that process had the cap left on. That cap went

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<v Speaker 2>into mister Dungey's airwaves and was only retrieved when the

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<v Speaker 2>staff discovered that the camp had fallen off. This was

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<v Speaker 2>gross incompetence, this was criminal negligence. They also put David,

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<v Speaker 2>despite him his heart no longer beating and not breathing,

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<v Speaker 2>into the recovery position. Again, the Professor Brown said, this

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<v Speaker 2>was an incorrect action to take. At no point during

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<v Speaker 2>the process of trying to keep David alive was anyone

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<v Speaker 2>appointed as the team leader. The fact is that most

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<v Speaker 2>likely David Dunge died of a lack of oxygen, and

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<v Speaker 2>as mister Professor Brown says, that was due to his restraints,

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<v Speaker 2>that is, the restraints being applied to him by those

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<v Speaker 2>prison officers. We may never know what roll the miter

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.480
<v Speaker 2>zolum played in David's death, but what we do know

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 2>is that in the hands of those corrective officers, David

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:18.640
<v Speaker 2>began alive and he would wind up dead. His death

0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:23.840
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have been inevitable, it was preventable. As Professor Brown said,

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.399
<v Speaker 2>if you can call out that you can't breathe, that

0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.760
<v Speaker 2>to me says the brain was working the lungs were working,

0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 2>the pulse was working enough to be reversible. Whatever challenge

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.560
<v Speaker 2>there was to Dungae in terms of the next two

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.240
<v Speaker 2>minutes and seventeen seconds while they waited for a nurse

0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:46.240
<v Speaker 2>to get another injection in that time is when Dungae

0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:55.199
<v Speaker 2>slipped into irreversible cardiac arrest. There was no need to

0:20:55.280 --> 0:21:00.440
<v Speaker 2>storm David's cell. It was known to the guards that

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 2>David had a number of serious medical conditions, life threatening

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 2>medical conditions, and yet over a biscuit they chose to

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.960
<v Speaker 2>storm his cell over a timtam that he may well

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.600
<v Speaker 2>have been eating for his own health because of his diabetes.

0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:22.560
<v Speaker 2>There was no need for multiple guards to throw him

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 2>around and place him in a position that would endanger

0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 2>his life in the way they did. There was no

0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.320
<v Speaker 2>need for them to refuse to listen to his cries

0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 2>for help that he could not breathe. Even to that point,

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 2>as Professor Brown says, it was preventable and reversible. A

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:52.439
<v Speaker 2>nurse came into the room, a medical professional. They should

0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:56.720
<v Speaker 2>have known that David was in grave danger. But when

0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 2>that nurse left the room in that two minutes and

0:21:59.760 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 2>said seventeen seconds until they returned, David died and slipped

0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:12.120
<v Speaker 2>into irreversible cardiac arrest. His family deserve answers and they

0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 2>deserve justice. David was in prison, but we supposedly don't

0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:24.280
<v Speaker 2>have the death penalty in Australia. Placing someone into a

0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 2>position where they cannot breathe, into a point known as

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:35.280
<v Speaker 2>positional asphyxia, the cutting off of the airways until hypoxic

0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:41.480
<v Speaker 2>arrest causes a heart attack, cannot be justified in any way.

0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 2>The fact that a drug was also used in the

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 2>process that is part of the lethal cocktail used in

0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 2>the United States in the carrying out of the death

0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:58.720
<v Speaker 2>penalty also should raise questions as to how Australian states

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 2>treat prisoner like four hundred others. David Dunga Junior has

0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>passed since the Royal Commission into Black Deaths into custody.

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.240
<v Speaker 2>It's also clear from what's happened in the Northern Territory

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.399
<v Speaker 2>since the Royal Commission and what we saw at Dondale

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 2>that nothing has changed. Children in the Hour Springs Detention

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Center are now in one of the top ten most

0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:35.560
<v Speaker 2>over crowded prisons on Earth. Royal commissions clearly fix nothing.

0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Chargers clearly never get laid. We also know that despite

0:23:47.600 --> 0:23:52.280
<v Speaker 2>the best efforts of journalists to uncover what police are

0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.800
<v Speaker 2>doing in states like Queensland, they risk their own lives

0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:00.320
<v Speaker 2>when doing so, proven by the fact the AFP had

0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 2>to appoint one of their own officers to protect an

0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:08.919
<v Speaker 2>ABC journalist from the Queensland Police. What Australia needs is

0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 2>a Truth and Justice Commission with the majority of the

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 2>commissioners made up of Aboriginal and Torestraight Islander people. The

0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Truth and Justice Commission needs a mandate. It needs to

0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:27.080
<v Speaker 2>mandate like that of a Royal commission with all the

0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:31.560
<v Speaker 2>powers that entails, but it needs to be Aboriginal led.

0:24:33.240 --> 0:24:36.720
<v Speaker 2>The Commission needs a mandate to make assessments of the

0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:42.600
<v Speaker 2>consequences of the imprisonment an abuse by police of Aboriginal

0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:50.080
<v Speaker 2>and Torestraight Islander people over the last decades. There should

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.840
<v Speaker 2>be an inquiry into the conduct of all those involved

0:24:55.400 --> 0:25:00.119
<v Speaker 2>in the prison system, including private prisons and public prisons,

0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.439
<v Speaker 2>Corrective Services and its union, the police and its union,

0:25:06.080 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 2>all justice departments or the Attorney General's departments and parole boards.

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:16.360
<v Speaker 2>The Commission needs the mandate to gather information and receive

0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:25.160
<v Speaker 2>evidence from any person. The mandate must also include appropriate

0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 2>reparative measures to all of those who have suffered. There

0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:36.280
<v Speaker 2>should also be the Mandate to inquire into complaints those

0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:42.280
<v Speaker 2>that are currently ongoing, like the case of Kevin Henry

0:25:43.760 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 2>and those from the past. The Mandate should then finally

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>be able to prepare a comprehensive report of its activities,

0:25:54.280 --> 0:25:59.040
<v Speaker 2>its research and its findings, and that report should be

0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 2>presented to the Governor General and the Australian Prime Minister.

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:10.520
<v Speaker 2>They must act on that report and its findings. We

0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 2>already know the names of four hundred Aboriginal and Torrestrate

0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Islander people who will be in that report, people whose

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.879
<v Speaker 2>lives have been taken by the prison system and the

0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 2>police in this country. But what we need to know

0:26:26.240 --> 0:26:31.639
<v Speaker 2>is who else and why. We need those who have

0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:35.280
<v Speaker 2>committed these acts to be held accountable. We need those

0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:38.320
<v Speaker 2>who are suffering right now, like Kevin Henry, to be

0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:42.879
<v Speaker 2>able to tell their story. We need charges to be

0:26:42.960 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>laid against all those found to have acted criminally, and

0:26:46.760 --> 0:26:49.880
<v Speaker 2>we need reparations to be paid to all those who

0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 2>have suffered. Any less is unacceptable. As this week shown,

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:03.080
<v Speaker 2>deaths of Aboriginal and torres Straight Islander people will continue

0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:08.720
<v Speaker 2>in prison. The abuse of Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander children

0:27:08.920 --> 0:27:14.720
<v Speaker 2>will continue, and the incarceration of Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander

0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:22.360
<v Speaker 2>women is the fastest growing anywhere in the world. If

0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 2>we don't get truth and justice now, there'll be more

0:27:27.119 --> 0:27:32.560
<v Speaker 2>death and injustice in the future. That was curtin the

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:33.199
<v Speaker 2>podcast