1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcottin woman from Gadighal Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Monday, 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: the twenty eighth of November. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. The 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: Federal government has announced its response to the destruction of 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: Djuken Gorge. 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 3: We acknowledge that we have to do better. We are 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 3: committed to doing so in partnership with First Nations. 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: Astrainments the destruction of the sacred site by Rio Tinto 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty shop the world. 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: The destruction of the forty six thousand year old Aboriginal 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: heritage site. 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 4: So was the. 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 3: Irreversible damage caused by Rio Tinto when it flew up 19 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: the ancient you Can Gorge Rock caves in Australia's remote 20 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: Pulba region. 21 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 5: So in today's deep dive, we're going to look at 22 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 5: what role the government played in the disaster and what 23 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 5: they're going to do about it moving forward. 24 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 6: But first, Sam take us through the headlines. 25 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: Well, I think we should start with the Victorian election 26 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: and Labor has been returned for a third term in 27 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: office under Premier Daniel Andrews. Andrews is now in track 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 2: to become Victoria's longest serving Labor premier. It was a 29 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: poor result for the Liberal Party, but a good night 30 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,559 Speaker 2: for the Greens and the Nationals. Liberal Party leader Matthew 31 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 2: Guy announced he will stand down as Opposition leader. 32 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 5: Two women who accuse the late businessman Jeffrey Epstein of 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 5: sexual abuse have now launched legal action against two major 34 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 5: banks for missing quote red flags about their client and 35 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 5: benefiting from Epstein's sex trafficking operation. JP Morgan Chase and 36 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 5: Deutsche Bank face unspecified financial damages in the case, which 37 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 5: will play out in New York. 38 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: A great result yesterday for the Melbourne Demons. They took 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: out the twenty twenty two AFLW season, beating the Brisbane 40 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: Lines nineteen to fifteen. The Lines led for the first 41 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: half of the game, but the Demons fought back to 42 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 2: claim their first AFLW premiership. It means that Demons are 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: now the first club to win both an AFL and 44 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: AFLW flag. 45 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 5: And some good news for your Monday morning. The European 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 5: Space Agency has announced former British Paralympic sprinter John McFall 47 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 5: as the first ever para astronaut, in a major step 48 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 5: towards allowing people with physical disabilities to work and live 49 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 5: in space. The agency selected McFall as part of a 50 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 5: new cohort of seventeen recruits picked for the astronaut training. 51 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 4: I just don't know how to really explain how I 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 4: feel because we've lost a hell of a lot of 53 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 4: connection to this area. Very heartbreaking and say that when 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 4: I got there this morning, like coming out in the buses, 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 4: well I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. I 56 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 4: didn't realize how n our country's being destroyed. 57 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: Sandra Hayes is one of the traditional owners of the 58 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: Duck and Gorge. After Rio Tinto destroyed the sacred site 59 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, the pkkp Aboriginal Council released this video 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 2: of the bootookin Ti Gurama and Bennie Gura peoples responding 61 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: to their loss. 62 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 4: The proof has been found that our people have had 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 4: connection to this area way beyond forty six zerousand years, 64 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: and then Rio goes and destroy it. They say they 65 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 4: didn't know about all that they knew they knew. 66 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 5: So when we're usually having these types of conversations, I'm 67 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 5: asking you to take us to the very beginning of 68 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 5: a story, to set. 69 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 6: The context, and then to take us through the story. 70 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 5: But with this one, I think that it's important to 71 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 5: highlight the end, which was the destruction of a site 72 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 5: of huge historical significance, and. 73 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 2: That took place in the Pilber region of Wa. It's 74 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: where the Duken Gorge has sacred significance for the Bottoo, 75 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 2: gunzy Gurama and Binnigura peoples, which are two distinct peoples 76 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 2: who both have an interest in this sacred place. A 77 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: cave that was destroyed at the gorge was a source 78 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: of a major archaeological finding, providing evidence of human life 79 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: going back at least forty six thousand years, which is 80 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: among the oldest evidence of life ever to be found 81 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: on the continent. The site also provided a four thousand 82 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 2: year old genetic link to present day traditional owners and 83 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: Rio Tinto blasted all in twenty twenty. 84 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 5: The immediate question that comes up when we hear about 85 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 5: this is did they know that it was a sacred site? 86 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: Traditional owners say that Rio Tinto had known about the 87 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: significance of the site for years, and in fact Rio 88 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 2: Tinto engaged archaeologists to carry out excavations over a decade 89 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 2: before this in two thousand and eight, and that archaeologists 90 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 2: found that the sites were of high significance and recommended 91 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: the cave we spoke about in particular be protected now. 92 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: Traditional owners also raised alarm bells with Rio Tinto in 93 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: the months and weeks leading up to the disaster, but 94 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: the company pressed forward with their plans. 95 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 5: How does Rio Tinto a huge company, you know, that 96 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 5: has heaps of shareholders and international scrutiny, how do they 97 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 5: justify that? 98 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: Well, the mining company apologized to the traditional owners and 99 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: said they're determined to learn from what happened there now. 100 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: They haven't faced any criminal penalties and maintained that they 101 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: received legal approval from the West Australian government for their plans. 102 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 5: We'll be back in just a moment, but first a 103 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 5: message from our sponsor. If Rio Tinto says that they 104 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 5: had the wa governments, what is the government's role then 105 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 5: in protecting sites like the Gorge. 106 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty one, a federal parliamentary committee found 107 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 2: inadequate regulations at the state and federal level had contributed 108 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,039 Speaker 2: to its destruction. And I think it's useful here, Zara 109 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: to split the findings into state and federal levels. 110 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 6: Okay, so can you start with state then? 111 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 2: Well, state and territory governments have this primary responsibility for 112 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: protecting culturally significant sites. If we zoom into Western Australia, 113 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: Rio Tinto had to apply for government consent, which it did, 114 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: but the parliamentary committee found WA's process lacked what they 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: say is rigor and authorities didn't do basic due diligence. 116 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: But this failure wasn't a one off. The destruction of 117 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: cultural sites was alarmingly common in the state. They said 118 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: there was no consistency in state laws and that the 119 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: states have failed. 120 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 5: All right, so that is the states, But you also 121 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 5: said that the federal government is involved as well in 122 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 5: these sorts of decisions, right. 123 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, they've got an interesting role. They're kind of positioned 124 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: to be the last resort in terms of cultural in 125 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: cases where state and territory protection doesn't quite meet the 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 2: standard that we're looking for. In order for the federal 127 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: government to come into play, traditional owners need to directly 128 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: apply to the Federal Environment Minister for assistance, and that 129 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 2: can only happen when all other state and territory pathways 130 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: have been attempted first. So the committee concluded these laws 131 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: were limited as a means of protecting cultural heritage and 132 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 2: were insufficient for the purpose of protecting the Druken Gorge. 133 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 5: I mean that sounds like a pretty skating account of 134 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 5: the current system, where the actionable recommendations made in this 135 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 5: report about how to do better, how to avoid a 136 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 5: situation like this happening again. 137 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: We got eight recommendations from the report. It's things like 138 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 2: legislating a completely new national framework, the mapping of cultural 139 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: sites so we actually know where they are, harsher penalties, 140 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: all on the underlying principle of free prior and informed consent. 141 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: Green Senator Lydia thorpe A Japaran Gunnai Gundichimira woman sat 142 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: on the committee and made additional recommendations in the Parliamentary 143 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: Committee report as well. Now, what she said was that 144 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: traditional owners should have the power to veto projects. She 145 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: said truly free prior and informed consent includes the possibility 146 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: of consent not being provided. 147 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 5: And the reason that it's back in the new cycle 148 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 5: is because at the end of last week we heard 149 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 5: the government's response, their official response to these recommendations. What 150 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 5: did the government say? 151 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 2: So we heard from Environment Minister Tanya Plibisek, who delivered 152 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 2: a formal response to the report in Parliament. 153 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: These reports tell the story of Duke and Gorge, but 154 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: they also tell the much bigger story of our national 155 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: failure on Indigenous cultural heritage. We have to remember that 156 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 3: this was legal desecration. No laws were broken here. Instead, 157 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: we have an entire system frustrating the interests of Indigenous 158 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: history and culture. 159 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: The government has accepted seven out of the eight recommendations 160 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 2: made in the report. It's now up to the government 161 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: to develop laws to put these seven into place. That'll 162 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: be developed by the First Nation's Heritage Protection Alliance, Minister 163 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: for Indigenous Australians Linda Bernie, Special Envoy for Reconciliation Pat Dodson, 164 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: and Environment Minister Tania Plipsec. 165 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 5: Okay, but there you've said seven out of eight, So 166 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 5: there's one that the government hasn't accepted. 167 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the recommendation that all issues relating to 168 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: Indigenous cultural heritage come under the responsibility of the Minister 169 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: for Indigenous Australians, who's Linda Bernie at the moment. Currently, 170 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: the way that this works is that it falls under 171 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: the Minister for Environment, Tania PILIPCC. Now, the Government says 172 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: it's working through this recommendation to determine who's the best 173 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: place minister to respond in this area. 174 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 4: Now. 175 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 2: In terms of Senator Thorpe's recommendations, the Government did agree 176 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: in principle with her comments, but they didn't specifically touch 177 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: on this question of veto powers for traditional owners. 178 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS. 179 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 5: If you learned something from today's episode, don't forget to 180 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 5: hit subscribe so that there's a TDA episod so i'd 181 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 5: waiting for you every weekday morning. We'll be back again tomorrow, 182 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 5: but until then, have a great day.