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Speaker 1: Will and Mordie I've given a great Monday, the big

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Speaker 1: news that the results or that the finding from the

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Speaker 1: Bruce Lehman trial have just concluded this afternoon. And Mikayla Whitburn,

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Speaker 1: whose legal affairs correspondent for the Sydney Morning Herald and

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Speaker 1: the Age that chief Court reporter joins is right now. Mikayla,

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Speaker 1: what has happened?

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Speaker 2: Hello? Oh, so huge day today. So we've just had

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Speaker 2: Justice Lee's decision in Bruce Lehman's defamation case against ten

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Speaker 2: and Lisa Wilkinson. Massive day in court, with the judge

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Speaker 2: finding that they've established a defensive truth to an allegation

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Speaker 2: that Bruce Lehman raped Brittainy Higgins in Palman House in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, okay, if you could treat me like a twelve

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Speaker 3: year old here, Mikayla, I am quite so with legal proceedings.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you're happy to So what's happened today is

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Speaker 3: that the lawyers representing Channel ten have proved enough that

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Speaker 3: he did actually commit the rape.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it's really important to note here that this

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Speaker 2: is in a defamation case, which is a civil trial.

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Speaker 2: It's not a criminal matter. It means that the standard

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Speaker 2: of proof is lower. So what Tan and Leasa look

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Speaker 2: confident they need to do was to establish on the

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Speaker 2: balance of probabilities, which means it's more likely than not

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Speaker 2: that Bruce Lemon raped Britainny Higgins in Parliament House. Now

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Speaker 2: that is necessarily a much easier task, although it's still

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Speaker 2: difficult than proving to the criminal standard, which is beyond

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Speaker 2: reasonable doubt that this occurred. So this is not a

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Speaker 2: criminal it's not a criminal conviction.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So, but that can happen now that there's evidence

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Speaker 1: to show or that someone has proven some level of truth.

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Speaker 2: Oh I'm not saying that there's going to be any

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Speaker 2: criminal process that flows through this. But what it does

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Speaker 2: show is that, at least according to one standard, the

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Speaker 2: civil standard, he's been found to have committed this act.

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Speaker 2: And it does mean that he's completely lost his defamation

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Speaker 2: case and he's now on the hook for essentially millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars in legal fees from this successful parties. But

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Speaker 2: we know that he doesn't have the money to pay it.

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Speaker 2: So I guess ten and Lisa looking some more to

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Speaker 2: find that money themselves.

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Speaker 4: Oh right, So michaelis so why wouldn't this now and

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Speaker 4: go to a criminal case. I appreciate that they haven't

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Speaker 4: had to prove it to the level of a criminal case,

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Speaker 4: but if they still have found that it's more likely

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Speaker 4: that he did commit the rape on Britney Higgins, surely

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Speaker 4: they're going, Okay, let's criminally change this guy.

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Speaker 3: Now, why wouldn't that happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, we have to go back to twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: which is when Bruce Bowman, who has always maintained his innocence,

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Speaker 2: did stand trials for Britney Higgins' sexual assault. Now that

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Speaker 2: the trial was aborted because of DURA misconduct because there

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Speaker 2: was evidence that one juror had brought research into the

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Speaker 2: jury room, which is not permitted, and the DPP at

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Speaker 2: that time considered whether or not he should stand trial

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Speaker 2: for a second time after that happened, but that did

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Speaker 2: not proceed ultimately because the DPP decided that there were

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Speaker 2: concerns about Brittney higgins mental health. I can't say that

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Speaker 2: there's ever going to be any further criminal charge attaching

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Speaker 2: to this. But what we have today, similar to as

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Speaker 2: you have said earlier, I think that Ben Robert Smith matter,

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Speaker 2: we have had a finding to the civil standard that

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Speaker 2: offenses have been committed.

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Speaker 1: Wow, the lot going on. Hey, Makayla a couple. I've

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Speaker 1: got a couple more things for you. So you're a

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Speaker 1: court reporter obviously, so you have you been in there

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Speaker 1: while while Bruce Levan's been in there defending himself at all?

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Speaker 1: Has he been present during this or has it just

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Speaker 1: been his lawyers? No?

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Speaker 2: So he quite unusually because in a sexual assault trial,

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Speaker 2: when it's a criminal matter and accused can opt to

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Speaker 2: maintain their silence, they don't have to give evidence in court.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't give evidence in his criminal trial, but

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Speaker 2: in the decimation case he did give evidence. And in

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Speaker 2: fact it was all streams live on YouTube by the

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Speaker 2: Federal Court, so you were able to watch it really

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Speaker 2: wherever you wanted to.

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Speaker 1: You could have worked from home, amazing, could have, but

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Speaker 1: probably didn't because you're a professional. What was he like

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Speaker 1: in court?

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Speaker 2: I mean was he just gave very forceful evidence that

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Speaker 2: nothing of the kind that Britain Higgins had accused him

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Speaker 2: of had happened. He said there was no sexual contact

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Speaker 2: between them at all, completely rejected as suggested by another witness,

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Speaker 2: that he'd actually been seen pashing, which was the word

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Speaker 2: used in court Brittany Higgins hours before the alleged assault.

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Speaker 2: So he presented of the witness who was adamant that

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Speaker 2: what he had been accused of had not occurred.

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Speaker 1: And how did he see him after the judgment was

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Speaker 1: passed down.

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Speaker 2: Well, we do have a photo of him on the

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Speaker 2: Held and Age websites at the moment where he looks

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Speaker 2: pretty stony faced coming out of court. So I imagine

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Speaker 2: it's a pretty shock development in court today and he

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Speaker 2: probably isn't going to be saying much about it.

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Speaker 1: And final question, I know Lisa Wilkinson's released his statement.

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Speaker 1: I've got that here.

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Speaker 5: Federal Court has found that I've published a true story

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Speaker 5: about a rape in a Federal minister's office at Parliament

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Speaker 5: House in March of twenty nineteen. I sincerely hope that

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Speaker 5: this judgment gives strengths to women around the country.

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Speaker 4: I'm so happy for her.

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Speaker 1: Is Lisa been present throughout the trial as well, michaelis.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she has been there for a lot of the

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Speaker 2: trial and she also gave evidence in their case. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's been a central figure in the court case.

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Speaker 1: What he did a huge day, huge for Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you've got a huge court report to finish, so

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Mikayla really really appreciate

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Speaker 1: her and for you offering your time and what is

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Speaker 1: a momentous day and really Australian.

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Speaker 2: History here shake care appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks mate, Mikayla Whitburn there. She is legal affairs correspondent

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Speaker 1: for the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age. If any

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Speaker 1: of that in there was distressing then don't forget. You

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Speaker 1: can contact Lifeline thirteen eleven fourteen or you can call

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Speaker 1: one one hundred respect if there are any things that

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Speaker 1: had a bit nasty to come up for you in

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Speaker 1: terms of the abuse side of that case. Totally wild,

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Speaker 1: what a day. She's a busy girl. Mikayla Whitburn, bloody.

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Speaker 1: I like you to get her.

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Speaker 4: How big is a court report? I've never done one

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Speaker 4: of them. It was on YouTube US refer to YouTube.

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Speaker 4: It's all there, it's all there.