WEBVTT - Moises Henriques - Ordineroli Speaking 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:06.320 Ordinarily Speaking. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:10.080 Everything looked perfect on the outside, but it couldn't have 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:14.440 been worse on the inside. My brain had told me 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:21.720 I was living the worst life. Soon s. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.000 Hello and welcome to Ordinarily Speaking, a podcast that celebrates 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:37.240 resilience in sport. My guest this episode is cricketer Moses Henriquez. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.800 He's been somewhat of a pioneer in the mental health space. 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.440 The way he has shared his personal battle has helped 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.280 other cricketers put their hands up to ask for help. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.000 The manner in which he explains his depression and anxiety 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:55.160 is eye opening yet relatable. Born in Portugal, Moses moved 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:57.800 to Australia at a very young age and has gone 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.080 on to play four tests for Australia, eleven One Day 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.160 Internationals and eleven T twenty Internationals, the pressure of potential 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.960 following him every step of the way. We caught up 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.000 at his house in Sydney pre coronavirus restrictions, where he 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.880 is a new dad and more motivated than ever to 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:20.280 speak up. If this chat triggers things for you, please 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:24.199 remember there is help out there, beyond Blue or Lifeline, 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.960 just a couple of places you can go. I hope 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:41.880 you enjoy the chat. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.840 Well, Moses, thanks so much for spending some time with me. 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.520 Thanks Nerlie, thanks for having me excited about this. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.720 I wanted to ask you first up, what made you 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.880 you've been really open with your mental health. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.520 What made you take a private battle public. 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:03.200 It's a really interesting question. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.240 I think there was a morning when I woke up 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.000 when I was probably fairly close to like like the 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.359 darkest times that i'd sort of been through in terms 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.760 of what was happening in my head. And I remember 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.800 waking up one morning and thinking, I've actually got the 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:24.880 life I've always wanted. I was playing professional cricket, lived 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.679 in my own house, I had a really supporting girlfriend, 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.120 a beautiful dog, great family, both my brothers, my mum 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.960 and dad or you know, they were also supportive, an 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:41.919 employer who was supportive, you know, security, and I still 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:46.560 couldn't find a way to be grateful or happy about 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:51.560 everything that was going on around me. I just remembered thinking, 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.679 like this is how I guess addicts were like a 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.840 created and homeless people. And you know, when you get 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.560 to this state of a mindset and you don't have 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:07.640 that support and you don't have people there around you, 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.080 trying to help you like I had when I was 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.080 going through some really tough times. I even thought, if 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.360 I didn't have my partner, there christa to bounce off 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.399 and to constantly reassure me that, you know, every day 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.200 was a success, every day was a winner. And I 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.920 was like, what would what would someone in that situation 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:29.640 do without that support. I just thought it was crazy 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.280 that some people would have to fight those demons in 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:35.680 their head and fight those thoughts and feelings on their own. 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:37.880 I remembered in that moment, I. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.119 Was just like, if I ever get to the light 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.400 at the end of this tunnel, firstly, I wanted to 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.040 do some work in trying to bridge that gap of 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.200 the amount of support that I had around and those 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.520 that are in a fortunate position can access and resources 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.520 that can that they can access and try and just 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.640 at least raise some awareness and get some support out 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.320 to the less fortunate. Yes, I think that would be 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.840 trying to battle those things on their own. I mean, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.120 it was so hard to battle it with all the 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.920 resources I had, and I could just I could only 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.839 imagine if you didn't have them, how hard it would 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:13.720 have been. And as I said, I was just like 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.279 this is exactly how people's lives just I think, take 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.280 a huge u turn when they don't have that support 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.400 around them and they've got those you know, demons. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:24.200 How are you feeling? 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.279 I know, I know it's a battle every day and 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.640 every day changes. How are you feeling today in this 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:30.760 moment right here? 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:36.600 Oh it's a completely different a completely different person now 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.720 to what I would have been two and a half 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.840 years ago. I think, yeah, two years and maybe two 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:47.359 months when I was probably at my worst, and that 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.880 had been sort of off and on for the majority 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.360 of my twenties. I'd say, so maybe five to seven years. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.760 There'd be you know, six months where I felt really good, 0:04:57.800 --> 0:04:59.640 and then the next six months I'd be sort of 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.240 finding ways to justify what I was doing to get 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.880 through and saying this is completely normal, feeling. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.320 Like this and whatever. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.400 But to get to the breaking point of the you know, 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.560 the the nadir, so to speak, that sort of low 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.440 point where I was just like, you know what, I 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.039 actually can't function anymore. 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:17.400 I can't keep going on like this. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.159 That was probably about two years and two months ago, 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.920 and it was crazy how quickly I turned that around, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.880 how quickly that changed compared to what I thought at 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.200 the time. I thought it was going to be, you know, 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.000 possibly something that stayed with me forever, and. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.560 Is that That's the thing, isn't it is that when 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.880 you're in it, it feels all consuming. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.600 It does it? Does it? It felt like. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.760 Because you just don't I didn't have that clarity of 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:52.280 mind to rationalize with myself in a or in a 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:54.960 positive way. When I was in that space, I just 0:05:55.040 --> 0:06:01.719 wasn't thinking logically, and I was just catastrophized everything, catastrophizing 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.640 the future. I was stuck in the future completely. I 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.720 was never in the present moment, and I just. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.520 Remembered thinking, like. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.120 My moods and the way that I was, I was 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.160 going to end up just pushing people away and I'd 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.080 end up being alone forever. I remember that was like 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.799 one thought that you know, I was going to basically 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.800 lose everything that I held dear, and that thought just 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.600 completely took over. It was just like this, It started 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.559 off as a little you know, like a little fire, 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.880 and then it just turned into an inferno in the head, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.720 like through months and months of just not not being 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.200 comfortable with the thought. And I think that's sort of 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.000 that feeling for me at that stage of trying to 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.760 control my environment all the time, trying to make sure 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.039 that I know exactly what's going on and that I 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.240 don't fail, and that you know, success and all these 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.719 types of things. I was always trying to control every 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.320 environment I was in. And once I learned that to 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.919 let go of control and to be comfortable with the 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:06.680 unknown and just to be just to be completely present 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.120 in that sort of in that moment you're in now, 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.800 that was a huge I mean, it took so much 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.720 time to learn how to do that as well, but 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.080 it was a huge turning point for me to sort 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.680 of just try to let go of control a little bit, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.040 try to let go of what will happen in the future, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.720 because you just never know the future may never come. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:33.040 But now, compared to them, I still look back and 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.160 can't even fathom the thoughts I had going through my 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.320 head at that stage and think like I just felt 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.600 like a completely different person. And there are still times 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:45.560 where like some of those thoughts might come back, like 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.080 there are still some triggers or whatever. And I remember 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.160 when we had our baby only eight weeks ago, the 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:58.640 first couple of weeks definitely did trigger some like all 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.400 of a sudden, this thing comes into the world that 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.880 you cherish and you hold so dear. But the first 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:07.960 thing I thought about was like not celebrating the joy 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.600 and like the happiness around it, but was like worried 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.600 and paranoid and again trying to control his environment and 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.880 mine and making sure that I gave him everything I 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.880 could to you know that, like I started worrying about 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:27.080 being a happy family and trying to create and control 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.240 the future for him, to make sure that he was 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.280 going to be happy, and sort of started sneaking into 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.120 some of those bad habits again. And it just took 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.400 a little bit of adjusting even then. But with the 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.360 stuff that I'd learned, and I could pick up those 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.640 symptoms really early rather than just letting it again, like 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.120 letting it roll on into something really dangerous. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.840 So I think because I went through it. 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.680 Initially, it made managing that whole experience a lot easier 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:55.080 as well. 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.920 At the depths of it, paint a picture for us 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.600 of what that looks like, like can you physically could 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.880 somebody physically tell that something was wrong with you or something. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:08.200 Was up with you? 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.120 Well, it's strange. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:14.680 A lot of my close friends didn't know and had 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:20.959 no idea until possibly until I stood down from a game. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:25.280 My wife definitely knew, She one hundred percent knew, and 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:28.559 she could see it. You can't like that's the thing. 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.760 You can only keep the front on front up for 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:37.080 so long. My brothers didn't know. So it depends how 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.720 much time you spend with someone, I think, and at 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.880 that stage I was happening both New South Wales and 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:46.880 the Sixers, and I just felt it was so important 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.320 to be a strong leader, you know, it was. I 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.800 couldn't let that front come down when I was at 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.080 work or at cricket. I couldn't bring my problems, my 0:09:56.160 --> 0:10:00.800 emotional problems to the game or to the sport. Because 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.920 of that, it actually just kept getting worse and it 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.600 kept getting bigger. But my partner could definitely see what 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:08.600 I was going through. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.480 And so what did she see? 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:13.440 She saw at home. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:18.439 She saw someone that barely smiled, if at all, didn't laugh, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:25.160 didn't enjoy times that I used to enjoy, Someone that 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:29.920 didn't want to socialize, didn't like, avoided going out in 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.480 public at all costs. Home became the safe space. But 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.719 then you felt guilty. At the end of a day 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.480 spent at home, you felt guilty because you're achieving nothing. 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.319 So I it was just this vicious circle of I 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.160 didn't want to didn't want to socialize because I was 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:48.280 so ashamed of who I was. I didn't want to 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:53.480 and the conversations I had with people, as hard as 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.960 I tried to engage, my head was just not there, 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.720 like it was somewhere else. I was you know how 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:01.400 you going, mate? 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:01.680 Yeah? 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.280 Good, thanks, you know, like, and I could hear what 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.880 they were saying, but it was just going straight through. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.640 And even at home with my partner, like we'd have 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:17.680 conversations where twenty minute conversations where ten minutes later I 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.079 wouldn't have even been able to know what we spoke about. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.120 Like my memory, my engagement to the present moment was 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.840 just so far beyond. I was just constantly living in 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.720 the future, and like living in a doom future because 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.199 I was just like everything's everything's bad is going to 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:39.240 happen soon, like you know, I just so I was 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.800 never able to enjoy any like any current moment which 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.920 she could see all the like all the time, I'd 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:51.560 started playing video games and stuff more often to like escape. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.120 I remember I played about seventeen seasons of seasons of 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:59.320 FIFA in about a month, and I like, and I 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.480 was like, I called it raising the youth, you know, 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.480 getting these young kids and turning him into soccer superstars. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.560 But and I thought I was doing something great with 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.160 my life. And I sort of look back now and 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:14.840 I'm thinking, like, this is that sort of obsession. And 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.920 it was because it kept me inside, and it kept 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.800 me away from having to socialize with people and kept 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:25.920 me away from you know, living life essentially and building relationships. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:30.680 And I became comfortable with sort of this little world 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.840 I had with you know, playing playing PlayStation. And the 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.920 first thing I did when I wanted to change and 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.760 made those changes is I just cut out anything that 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:44.560 would keep me in the house. So I threw my 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.400 PlayStation out, I deleted all the games off my phone. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.040 Not that that relationship or that would be the same 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.600 for everyone that plays video games or but I knew 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.600 for me, I used that as something to stop me 0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:59.760 from going out and to stop me from socializing and 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.400 anything that encouraged me to stay at home other than 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.119 like the relationship with my partner I tried to eradicate. 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.679 Really, did she try and say you need help? 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.319 Did you realize you needed help or did it all 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.040 just feel like it's just a phase, or how did 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:18.200 it feel at that. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.600 Point in time before you got help. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.840 I'd been getting help for like two years, I reckon 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:30.240 before that like the toughest point, and that help was 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.960 mainly because I thought I was like, I was telling 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.640 myself that I didn't enjoy cricket anymore, and I was like, 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.120 you know what, I don't. I don't enjoy the game anymore. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.440 I don't I don't love it like I used to. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:45.840 Should I retire? 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:46.800 Should I? You know? 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.000 So that's about four years ago now, that. 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:49.400 Would have been. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.160 Yeah, I think those thoughts kind of started when I 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.320 was like twenty seven, twenty eight, And ironically it's sort 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.280 of lined up with when I actually started performing well. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:04.079 I'd been injured and inconsistent and you know, all this 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.480 chat about your potential in my early twenties and late 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.560 teens and how. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.240 Much does that impact a person? 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:12.960 You know what? 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.760 At the time, I thought I handled it well and 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.560 I thought I knew exactly like I was like, no, 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.760 it's fine, I'll just you know, chill out, and you know, 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.320 it's all good. And I sort of took it all 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.480 in my stride at the time, but I think listening 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:33.920 to that external expectation ended up becoming internal expectation of 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.040 what I felt like I needed to achieve because everyone 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.320 had told me I should. 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:39.720 Or should have by now. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.800 Yeah, And I thought that was okay, you know, I 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.000 thought I was handled pretty well. But then once I 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:51.440 actually started almost playing to what people had expected for 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:56.480 so long, I was like this, I've been like looking 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.440 for this moment for so long, and I'm not enjoying 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:06.040 it now, and like why why? And I started questioning 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.200 and all this sort of stuff. And I didn't realize 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.000 at the time what had manifested and why I wasn't 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.880 enjoying it and why all these things had happened. But 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.800 I'd actually gotten to the age where I could no 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:25.040 longer get a contract next year on potential, So that 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:29.600 sort of twenty six twenty seven, And I only realized 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.280 this when I started the whole you know, really being 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.920 honest with myself and really saying like, why don't you 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:37.880 like cricket anymore? 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.440 Like why did you love it when you were. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:44.680 Seventeen eighteen, like absolutely lived, breathe, absolute cricket stuff, and 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.840 now why don't like why don't you like it? Anymore. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.160 The game hasn't changed. It was my perception to the game, 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.560 and once I really got into it, I think what 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:00.640 massively changed was at twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight. 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.720 Subconsciously I realized, like when I looked back through my 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.640 therapy and I started you know, reading a lot more 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:11.720 about you know, the fear of failure and stuff like that, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.720 and what these sort of behaviors look like. It was 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.000 just a huge fear of failure. Once I actually got 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:19.560 to the age where I was like, you know, what 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.440 if I don't perform? And I never actually thought this 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.160 in my head, but like subconsciously I knew if I 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.960 don't perform at this age, I can't keep getting a contract. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.560 So it was like this huge fear of failure and 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.760 the fact that like i'd go out and play and 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.200 do well, I would sort of keep my head above 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:40.720 water of. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.080 Like, okay, instead of enjoying enjoying m. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.200 Just enjoying the moment and enjoying like being playing cricket 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:48.880 with my friends, I was like, okay, well I've got 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.960 another two games. I remember I had like the most 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.560 successful year I'd had, and I was like, what was 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:01.240 all that for? I never felt satisfaction or fulfillment, so 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.600 to speak. I just felt relief, like it was like, oh, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.400 I've finally done what people like. I never felt satisfied, 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.919 I know, I never felt like fulfilled with what I 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:16.360 was achieving on the cricket field. And the only thing 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.120 I ever felt was like a relief, like, Oh, thank god, 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.639 I finally did well. Thank god, I've finally lived up 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.680 to what people wanted me to do. And I think 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:29.520 I started like playing cricket how other people like, almost 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.679 worried about what other people's expectations were and you know, 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.879 what is it? What does a successful life look like? 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:39.119 And all this sort of stuff. And I never actually like, 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.960 at that age, I didn't actually just enjoy my life 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.719 and enjoy the game. And I was always just like, 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.000 am I doing enough? Am I doing enough? I've got 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:49.520 to do more. I've got to do more. You've got 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:51.800 to do this perfect. This has to be done. This 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.239 has to be done. And when I look back at 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:56.840 some of the ways that I used to train and 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.400 stuff like that, I was just nuts, Like some times 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.920 I go in without I wouldn't even have a purpose 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:05.800 other than training more. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.800 It's like hit more balls, bowl more. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.720 Balls, and now I'm like the complete opposite, not that 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.880 I don't train as much, but like before I train, 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.720 I sit down and I think, like I actually visualize 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.000 or picture what I want to get out of the 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.520 training session and what do I want to achieve in 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.240 this training session or today when even if it's not cricket, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.320 if it's life, it's like I wake up in the morning, 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.000 I'm like, what am I going to like what are 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.399 the things I'm going to achieve today? And it just 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.000 stops so much that procrastination that I used to do 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.960 in my life. It was like giving myself a purpose 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.560 every day of you know, the things I wanted to do. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.200 Whether that's like you know, some days, if I'm having 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.360 a day off, I'll wake up and go and say 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.639 to myself, today I'm just going to completely engage with 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.439 every conversation I have with anyone like a stranger, whoever 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.440 serves me coffee at the cafe, whoever it is, and 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:02.199 I walk away from some of those conversations like with 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:05.359 smile from ear to ear, like to see other people 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:09.000 smiling and to see other people enjoying their day. And 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.920 I've started like loving to hear about other people's journeys. 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:15.560 Connection connection, Yeah, one hundred percent. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.480 When you were at the worst of it, how bad 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:19.480 was it for you? 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.800 I remember waking up and having a game to play, 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:26.400 and I was like, just give me something that will 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:32.280 take this away, Like this, I wanted to try, not 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.120 only prescription like forget prescription drugs. I wanted to try 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.520 like the heaviest stuff that would just give my brain 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.360 a break. I was like, I wanted to just give 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.680 my mind a rest, and I knew that it wasn't 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.880 healthy at the time. When I was at my at 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.119 the worst, I didn't have a drop of alcohol for 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.359 like three months because I just thought, like my dad 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.239 had a bit of an alcohol issue growing up, and 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.320 I saw him drink a lot of alcohol in my teens, 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.840 and he also had depression and probably still does or 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.359 he definitely still does. But I was so concerned about 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:15.320 having that dependency on it. So at the worst, at 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.880 my most bottom, I was so fearful of like if 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.760 I had one drink of alcohol, I would turn into 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:23.679 an alcoholic. Like up until that point, I'd always been 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.440 fairly responsible with how I drank alcohol, like as much 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:32.080 as I would never behave too poorly on the drink. 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:33.840 I mean, I've done some stupid things. We all have, 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:37.960 especially when I was younger, but you're always aware of Yeah, 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.440 I've never woken up the next morning and not known 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.040 what I'd done the night before, other than a couple 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:45.000 of midnight snacks. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.880 But we all forget YEA calories after two am. 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:50.680 Don't count exactly. 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.800 But it was just this, like I had this fear 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.840 of becoming completely dependent on alcohol, so I steered away 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:01.800 from that. But at the same time, when I got 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.280 to my worst, I was like, I do need something. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.040 I knew alcohol wasn't the answer, but I was like, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.119 what else is there that I can take to fix this? 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.040 Because I can't do it anymore? And I was just like, 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.199 there's no way. And in terms of the physical, like 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.320 what started to happen to me physically, like I was 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.159 shaking for a lot of the day, just feeling like 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.240 I couldn't sit still or stand still, felt like I 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.280 had like a squash ball in my chest. It felt 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.600 like my heart rate, my resting heart rate would have 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.440 been like one forty, but then I'd like, I'd check, 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.560 I'd actually check my resting heart rate and it was 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:41.560 still fairly normal, maybe a couple of beats more than 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.520 what it normally would be, but like it felt like 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:51.400 it was through the roof, completely lost appetite, not sleeping. Basically, 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.679 if you looked up the depression symptoms on Google, I 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.440 was ticking off almost every single one of them, and 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.080 like quite severely. There was probably two or three months 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.960 where I was in a really bad place and trying 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:06.840 to function on you know, one or two hours sleep, 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:09.399 and then the sleep I got was like at really 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.520 unhealthy times as well. I lost I remember, I still 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.840 remember I'd lost about ten kilos in maybe four weeks, 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.040 So I went from being like ninety eight kilos to 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:20.760 eighty eight kilos in the space of four weeks. And 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.119 I remember going like I was living with Mike Michael 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.320 lum was living at my place at the time when 0:22:26.320 --> 0:22:28.600 he was out playing for the Sixers, and I remember 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.800 going down to the beach. He'd like forced me because 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.600 he knew he was doing everything he could to get 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.440 me out of the house. And I remember going down 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:40.040 to the beach and sort of taking my shirt off 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.320 and going into the water. He's like, jeez, you've been 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.720 going to the gym, mate, Like you're looking ripped. As 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:47.320 I was like, no, I haven't been in the gym 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.000 in a month. It's called depression, Like I've just lost 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.080 so much weight. He's like, you're looking like healthy, and 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.760 I was like, nah, I like literally, my everything's just 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.719 been shredded off my body, like and it was not 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:03.600 healthy at all. And jokingly he's like, geez, I've got 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:07.480 to get me some of that depression and I was like, no, no, 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:09.439 trust me. I was like, you don't wish it. You 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:12.200 don't wish it on your like on your worst enemy. 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:15.680 The amazing thing was like once I started feeling better 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:17.719 and I got my appetite back, it all came on 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:21.240 so quickly. Like I remember at the end of that 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:23.639 next Shield season, I was one hundred and three, so 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.639 I put on fifteen kilos in like eighteen months. But 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.240 I couldn't have been happier and I couldn't have been 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:31.600 in a better place. No one ever said anything, or 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:33.959 no one charged or anything like that, which was it 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.040 probably helps when you're six foot three you can sort 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.080 of fluctuate in your weight a little bit more and 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:41.320 people don't realize. But I remember looking back now and 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:44.960 thinking at eighty eight kilos, people thought I was like 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:51.119 physically looking so healthy, but inside I was an absolute mess, 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.840 and then fifteen kilos heavy, it was the exact opposite. Inside, 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.240 I couldn't have been more content and couldn't have been 0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:01.840 happier and more comfortable with where I was. I didn't 0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:03.920 look too different. Oh well, I didn't think I did, 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:05.760 but maybe I had my happy pills on him when 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:07.679 I was looking at myself in the mirror. But I 0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:10.239 think the biggest thing was actually the squash ball like 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:12.560 in my chest, because at times when something didn't go 0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:16.120 my way, I just remember that squash ball turning into 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:18.720 like a tennis ball and actually feeling like I couldn't breathe, 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.600 and that feeling like I was having like almost like 0:24:21.680 --> 0:24:22.760 cardiac arrests. 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:25.720 So was it like a pang like a physical. 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:31.040 Oh yeah, yeah, one moment in particular I remember, and 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.040 it was so trivial. And I look back now as 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.760 I was having just like my direct family and Chris's 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.080 direct family of Christmas Eve was supposed to be a good, 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:44.080 like a fun afternoon, and I knew that we should 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:46.800 have been, like it was going to be helpful for 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:50.080 me and CHRISTA was really like, let's get everyone over 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:51.879 and you can you know, it'll be nice for you 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:53.680 to see everyone and talk to everyone. I was like, yeah, 0:24:53.960 --> 0:24:56.399 I should, I should. I didn't want to, Like I 0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:59.119 just wanted to be on my own and with Christa. 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:01.920 I remember, but like we're trying to get prepared and everything, 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:04.960 and I went to like turn the gas on the 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.760 barbecue and there was no gas left in the barbecue 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.320 and I was like it would have been two pm 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.440 or something on Christmas Eve, and I just remember thinking, oh, well, 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:14.600 life's over. 0:25:15.160 --> 0:25:19.640 And Chris is like what. I'm like, well, well, we're 0:25:19.640 --> 0:25:22.040 stuff here, Like I can't. I can't. 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.520 I can't do the barbecue. There's going to be no 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.040 food like where stuff. Like I knew we shouldn't have 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:30.080 had people over. Let's ring them or tell them to go, 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.880 like and she's like there's seven to eleven, like walk 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.000 up the road to seven eleven and like and she's like, 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:38.960 I'll do it. You stay here, I'll go up and 0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:42.080 get the gas from the service station and bring it back. 0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.679 And I was like, no, it's just too hard, like 0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.480 we're not gonna and like I was just creating this 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:51.719 absolute because I was already at like my wits end 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.840 before that had even happened, and then every little setback 0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:58.120 it just wasn't rational, like how I reacted to every 0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:01.040 little That was probably the worst anic attack I had. 0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:04.119 Like I remember like pacing around the house and like 0:26:04.560 --> 0:26:07.200 ending up on all four on all fours, like trying 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:10.320 to breathe, trying to find like somewhere, and it was 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:13.119 all because there was no gas in the in the 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:18.080 like for the barbecue. And remember about half an hour, 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.359 once I'd settled down and Chris had got me to 0:26:20.359 --> 0:26:22.679 focus on my breathing and stuff like that, and I 0:26:22.720 --> 0:26:26.080 was able to get back into sort of Okay, I'll 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:27.719 just go up and do it. I was still in 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.520 the car, like driving to the service station which is 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.480 like a minute away, and I was still like shaking, 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.160 and then coming back and trying to connect it all. 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:36.560 It was. 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:39.760 It was just this huge task at the time that 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:43.359 I had put on this absolute pedestal, like it was 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:45.920 the most important thing ever. And I remember looking back 0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:48.840 a couple of months later, once I was feeling a 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.800 lot healthier and thinking, wow, was that the same person 0:26:51.840 --> 0:26:55.400 that managed that, Like it's just bizarre to think how 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.040 I reacted to some to some you know, stimuli that 0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:01.320 I hadn't prepared for. And again it was just as 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:06.240 I mentioned earlier, is that something happening that I hadn't controlled, 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:09.000 that I couldn't control. And whenever something kept popping up, 0:27:09.160 --> 0:27:11.720 especially when I was at my worst that I hadn't 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:16.000 planned for, I couldn't cope. It's a constant reminder of 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:20.320 how like to be okay with not knowing? Like, because 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:22.280 you do want to plan and you want to organize 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:24.880 and have you know, make sure that you're doing everything 0:27:24.920 --> 0:27:28.880 you can in this moment to make sure like you're 0:27:28.920 --> 0:27:31.000 going to be able to keep enjoying life. But if 0:27:31.000 --> 0:27:33.399 you don't actually live in this moment, then you know, 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:34.920 like what's the point at all? 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:37.080 To be fair, Christmas does bring out the worst. 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:40.200 Yeah, yeah, that's right. 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:46.240 You're listening to ordinarily speaking with special guest Moses Henriquez. 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:50.040 How do you feel about your wife and everything that 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:53.360 she's been there for you, supporting you through it, because 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:55.679 it sounds like she's been the rock through this. 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:57.920 Yeah, she definitely has. 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:04.240 I definitely had like fears as well and anxieties over 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:08.400 the burden on her. I mean she even stopped going 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:11.840 to work for two weeks just to stay at home 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.640 and to look after me, to make sure everything was okay. 0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.680 And I was like, this isn't sustainable, like you need 0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:22.320 to live your life just and I was almost telling 0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:24.800 her to leave me, like just go live your life. 0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:29.720 Oh you know, this isn't like there's no way you 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:33.320 can live your life like this, and she was like yes, 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:35.840 Like yes I can, of course I can. Like what 0:28:35.880 --> 0:28:38.240 are you talking about? This is ridiculous. Where it will 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:41.240 sort it out, It's all fine. Like I just remember 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:44.320 feeling like I was just creating this huge burden for her, 0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:47.400 but she never once made me feel like like that. 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:50.200 When I look back now, what felt like just sort 0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:56.800 of that unconditional sort of care, unconditional love and respect 0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.600 I guess that she had. I just feel like, if 0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:02.200 you if you don't have that around to remind you 0:29:02.280 --> 0:29:06.200 of the clarity and the reason, I just can't imagine 0:29:07.320 --> 0:29:10.360 what I would aspire it into because I kind of 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:13.360 felt like at times life couldn't have got any worse, 0:29:13.440 --> 0:29:16.960 like what And I know for a fact life could 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:19.360 have could have got a lot worse my actual life, 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.040 but my perception on life couldn't have got any worse. 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.000 And did you know in the moment that it was irrational. 0:29:25.640 --> 0:29:29.520 Did you know my life's great ro rah? Or were 0:29:29.560 --> 0:29:31.640 you in the moment thinking, no, it is as bad 0:29:31.680 --> 0:29:32.760 as it feels. 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:36.200 At all times, I knew that I was so lucky 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.000 that I had physically I had, like I had a 0:29:40.000 --> 0:29:43.680 life that I shouldn't be worried about. But I think 0:29:43.760 --> 0:29:48.440 if anything, that even made me feel even possibly more 0:29:48.440 --> 0:29:51.120 guilty that I was like, how can you not feel? 0:29:51.840 --> 0:29:54.120 How are you not happy? How are you not feeling content? 0:29:54.200 --> 0:29:57.920 How like you've got stuff? Oither like there are people 0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:02.080 who are struggling to make meal, struggling to pay bills, 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:06.200 et cetera, And they don't have a job that they like. 0:30:06.240 --> 0:30:10.480 Their kids are like struggling, or they've lost a loved one, 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:13.160 or they've lost a child, or they've lost a father, 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:16.720 all these things, and I hadn't I hadn't had any 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:20.040 particular moment that had set this off. Or maybe a 0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:23.400 combination of a fair few things, and like a combination 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:28.320 of I guess, my own sort of belief systems and 0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:31.680 from growing up and what I sort of what I 0:30:31.800 --> 0:30:36.080 told myself success was, I guess maybe, but nothing like 0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:39.760 it was crazy and that made me feel worse. You've 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:41.280 got no reason to feel like. 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:44.880 This, so angered anger and joined self. 0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:49.200 Guilt just came straight in like it was. It was 0:30:49.280 --> 0:30:52.320 a whole heap of self loathing and the guilt that 0:30:52.400 --> 0:30:55.120 I felt for being like that, which was while I 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:58.000 was trying to I was like, you'll end up pushing 0:30:58.000 --> 0:31:01.760 everyone away. And because I was telling telling myself that narrative, 0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:03.800 that's what I was trying to do as well, I 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:05.680 was like, you know. 0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:07.920 Because at least then you've got the control back exactly. 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:10.000 I was like, and in it, I was trying to 0:31:10.040 --> 0:31:12.040 push everyone in a while, I was like, nah, like 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.200 you don't want to spend time like you don't want 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:16.360 to be here, It's not good for you. I had 0:31:16.400 --> 0:31:19.000 an understanding of that stage that all the negative thoughts 0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:21.640 had like just built and rolled on in my head, 0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:24.120 and I was like, there's no way that these negative 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.280 thoughts can be good for other people to be around. 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:28.600 So I was just trying to push them away, and 0:31:28.640 --> 0:31:31.440 thankfully they did it. Like, I had so many people 0:31:31.480 --> 0:31:32.360 who wanted to help. 0:31:32.840 --> 0:31:36.840 When I speak to sports people about going through this, 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:40.920 a really common thing that comes up is crying in 0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.480 their cars ahead of training, ahead of a game. It's 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:48.920 this pretending that, you know, getting everything out and then 0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.000 walking out and pretending everything is okay. 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:52.520 Have you been through that? 0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:58.040 Yeah? I remember. 0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:05.920 Crying the night before Shield games, like the night before 0:32:06.000 --> 0:32:09.640 day one of a Shield game was quite common for me, Like, 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:13.120 and when it got worse, it was like the two 0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.880 or three nights leading into a Shield game, I was 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:19.880 like so upset and in I was like, I've got 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:22.600 four days of this shit, you know, I've got four 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:26.840 days of this eight hour, nine hours a day chasing leather. 0:32:27.640 --> 0:32:28.040 I got it. 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:31.120 Probably I'm probably going to miss out and watch watch 0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:33.520 the other boys bat for five hours, and I'm going 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.000 to have to bowl and probably go whacked around. And 0:32:37.040 --> 0:32:40.240 I just catastrophizing what was going to happen in each game, 0:32:40.680 --> 0:32:44.040 and sure as anything, like the game would go like, 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.880 the game would go forward, and you know, I may perform, 0:32:47.920 --> 0:32:50.840 I may not perform, like you know, And at the 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:52.600 end of the game, the only thing I ever felt, 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:55.600 whether I did really well or I did poorly, was relief. 0:32:55.640 --> 0:32:57.800 I was like, that game's over. I've got four days 0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:03.320 until the next one. Like. But I do remember specifically, 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:05.480 and this was probably a year before I got to 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.520 my worst, But I remember I won the toss at 0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:12.160 Banks Down Oval in a shield game against Tasmania, and 0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:17.479 we elected to bowl on what I thought was going 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:20.520 to be a green seema And at the end of 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:22.720 the day they were like two for two hundred and ninety. 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:26.640 Come day two they get four hundred and twenty or 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.280 four p fifty or something like that declared. Where five 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.120 for ninety going into like at the end of day two, 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:35.680 I got out for like twenty odd And I remember 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:36.560 sitting in the car. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:41.560 I remember driving down the M five back home. 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:46.120 And I remember thinking to myself in the car, like 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:49.560 I'm doing one hundred and like one hundred and ten 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:51.800 on the highway, thinking if I just turned this car 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:56.760 into here, like what like into the into the pillar 0:33:57.000 --> 0:34:00.120 or somewhere, I didn't want to create a crash. I 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:03.520 remember thinking like if I just got ranch straight into 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:05.920 this pole or do here, what would happen, like like 0:34:06.000 --> 0:34:06.560 what would. 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.520 What would be the coolinter like the. 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:16.960 I guess the consequence of what would happen there, you know, 0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:20.000 And I was like, I can't do that. It's not 0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:22.279 fair on my brothers, it's not fair on Christa, and 0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.640 it's not fair on all these people out of there 0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:26.840 for me. I can't leave. I can't leave my team 0:34:26.840 --> 0:34:28.440 with ten men for the next two days. 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:29.839 And I just. 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:34.600 I never, like I just remembered that moment, and I 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.040 just I remember crying. I ended up having to pull 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:40.239 over because I was crying so heavily in the car 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:42.040 that I was shaking and stuff. 0:34:42.040 --> 0:34:42.719 I had to pull over. 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:46.920 Just took five minutes, ten minutes until like I stopped crying, 0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:53.800 and I was like, and that wasn't even at my worst, 0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:56.239 Like that was actually you know, that was just like 0:34:56.280 --> 0:34:59.400 a fleeting moment that in that five or ten minutes 0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:05.160 became like it just built up into something like really unhealthy. 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.200 But even at that stage, I didn't even think I 0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.520 had Like I didn't think I had a really bad problem. 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:12.520 I was like, I'm just managing it, you know, Like 0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:16.359 it's it's like, this is this is what happens when 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:18.279 you have a high pressure job, Like this is what 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.480 you've got to put up with. And I'm like, if 0:35:21.680 --> 0:35:24.880 anyone was to tell me, like now that there felt 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.319 something similar to that and it's because it's a high 0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:30.120 pressure job, it was like, no, it's not because it's 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:33.200 a high like pressure and stress is something we can't 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:36.239 weigh like it's something we create for ourselves, you know, 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:39.759 it's what we what we perceive in every situation. And 0:35:39.960 --> 0:35:42.920 like it wasn't a high pressure job for me, Like 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:46.400 it's just what other like what I may have considered 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:48.600 high pressure or someone else may have considered, but the 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.439 actual job wasn't. Like I was going out and playing 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.920 cricket like I'm playing a game, like I'm having I'm 0:35:54.920 --> 0:35:58.880 supposed to be having fun. And I justified to myself 0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:00.719 how I was feeling, and it's like, well, you've got 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:02.439 to because you've got to be able to you know, 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.120 you've got these expectations, so that comes with feeling like 0:36:06.480 --> 0:36:08.719 this when you fail or when things don't go your way, 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:11.440 these are the things that are going to happen. I 0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:15.560 really believe now you can manage that. You can manage 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:20.040 high performance and well being in much better ways than 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.200 what maybe I learned how to do. 0:36:23.320 --> 0:36:25.759 For sure, did you have to separate yourself from the 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:31.680 cricketer because I found that so obviously with what I've 0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:33.839 gone through the last few months, losing my job, so 0:36:33.880 --> 0:36:37.960 that I had to start separating people weren't actually friends 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:39.640 with me because of what I did for a living. 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:43.239 They were friends with me because of who I am, 0:36:43.560 --> 0:36:46.000 and so it was a part of that for you 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.839 that you suddenly started to realize when you gave up 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.600 the captaincy, when you stepped away, that people actually that's 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:54.440 how you knew them was through cricket, but that's not 0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:55.480 why they were friends with you. 0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:57.080 Was that part of it? 0:36:57.080 --> 0:37:00.080 It was huge, It was a really big part of 0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:02.400 of As strange as it sound, I never thought I 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:05.680 had an ego. I never thought that I identified myself 0:37:05.719 --> 0:37:09.760 as a cricketer. I always thought I was quite humble 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.880 in that sense, but I definitely to a degree. You know, 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:17.759 although I might have been humble with the language I 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:22.960 used what I saw as success and what I had 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.319 picture in my head as being doing the right thing 0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:30.080 by external expectations and my own expectations, there was a 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:32.960 huge ego attached to that. Like for me to achieve 0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:35.600 the things I wanted to achieve, it was because I 0:37:35.640 --> 0:37:38.920 wanted to be seen as something might not have always 0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:41.960 been like, you know, I had, like I wanted to 0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.520 succeed and be the best cricketer that ever lived. But 0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:47.640 I still remember from a very young age that like 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:50.520 one of my life goals was to be the best 0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:53.719 dad possible. When I ended up growing up, I was like, 0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:55.439 I just want to be a great dad. I want 0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:57.440 to be there, and a great dad and a great husband. 0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.400 I want to be there. I was like more than 0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:01.759 anything else. And I've always sort of kept that in 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.600 the back of my head. But like even that has 0:38:05.680 --> 0:38:08.080 a bit of an ego attachment to it, because that's 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:11.560 I'm trying to attach my identity to what I perceive 0:38:11.600 --> 0:38:14.920 as success and and how I thought I was going 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.880 to become a really good dad. Was like, okay, like 0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:18.920 you know, how am I going to do that? 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:19.280 Okay? 0:38:19.360 --> 0:38:25.400 Security, you know, money, success, a happy household, all these things, 0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:27.920 and what are what are the things that are going 0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:29.120 to make me have those things? 0:38:29.160 --> 0:38:31.719 Okay? Well, how am I going to make money? Okay? 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.440 I'm going to play heap, Like, play really good cricket. 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:36.680 If I do well at cricket, it brings everything else, 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:40.120 like it makes its more pressure. Actually, it's going to 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:43.040 give me a better chance of being a successful dad 0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:47.080 and you know, a happy dad and a successful father 0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:49.439 and husband if I've got you know, all those other 0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:53.319 things sorted out as well, and playing cricket. And once 0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:56.320 I was able to realize through a lot of reading 0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:59.759 and a lot of therapy and a lot of you know, research, 0:39:01.840 --> 0:39:04.719 that whole I guess relationship that I have now with 0:39:05.040 --> 0:39:09.799 the present moment and connections and talking to people and 0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:14.279 learning about other people has just completely changed how I 0:39:14.320 --> 0:39:17.439 sort of view who I want to be. It's like, no, 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.759 I don't. I can only be a good father if 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:24.040 I'm present. I can't be a good father on the 0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:26.440 back of just being a good cricketer like that, that 0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:30.239 means absolutely nothing. I can't be a good father just 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:34.640 because you've made money or because you've put a shelter 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.640 over someone's you know, over shelve one's head. It helps, 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:40.080 but it doesn't. It doesn't mean you're a good father. 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:43.160 I had to actually completely change my values, change my 0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:45.880 beliefs as to what I thought success was and what 0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:49.880 I wanted to prioritize, and you know, my beliefs and 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:53.279 so on. I just I did a complete shift. I 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.880 did a lot of reading about different cultures and even 0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:59.480 all sorts of different religions. And I've never been like 0:39:59.719 --> 0:40:02.799 a religious person. I read the Koran, I read the 0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:06.600 Bible like I literally just went and read as much 0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:10.920 and learned about as many different cultures and religions and 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:15.160 stuff as possible, and what I learned in all of them, 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:19.160 there's this common theme of basically just being kind to 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.800 your fellow person in all of them, and how important 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:27.200 relationships are in life. Self help books and psychology books 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:29.880 that I read, it was the same ongoing theme. I 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:32.239 was like, you know what, I actually do feel my best. 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.440 I feel so much better when I'm helping other people 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:38.160 or when I'm engaging with other people and learning about 0:40:38.200 --> 0:40:41.160 other people. So that became a huge focus. Being a 0:40:41.200 --> 0:40:44.640 cricketer is not that important. It's very lucky. I'm very 0:40:44.640 --> 0:40:46.040 privileged to do that. 0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:46.879 But if I. 0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:49.920 Stopped playing cricket tomorrow, someone else will take that spot 0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:51.880 and the game will keep rolling forward. 0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:54.960 You speak about being a dad, and you spoke about 0:40:55.000 --> 0:40:58.760 your own dad earlier. Have you spoken to your dad 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:02.480 about sharing that commonality in mental health? 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:06.719 Yeah? I remember when the first time I spoke to 0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:11.520 him and told him what I'd been diagnosed with, and. 0:41:13.040 --> 0:41:18.879 He was I chatted on the phone. 0:41:19.120 --> 0:41:22.840 I was in Hobart and he was asking why I 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:26.319 hadn't played the last couple of games, and I told 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:32.160 him and I couldn't even bear to tell him until 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.000 I'd already started to feel a bit better. Because I 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.839 remember I was in Hobart because it was the first tour. 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:39.319 I was like, I want to see what I'm like 0:41:39.400 --> 0:41:41.560 now when I go. I wasn't there to play, but 0:41:41.560 --> 0:41:43.480 I was there to just sort of integrate back in 0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:46.319 around the team. So I was starting to feel like 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:48.919 I was getting some moments of clarity each day, whether 0:41:48.960 --> 0:41:51.040 it be half an hour or ten minutes. Through the 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:54.279 twenty four hours, I was feeling, you know, I was 0:41:54.400 --> 0:41:56.919 capable of positive thought against I was like, Okay, let's 0:41:56.920 --> 0:42:00.200 see if I can sort of integrate back into That 0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:03.200 was when I rank Dad and told him sort of 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:09.440 the extent of everything. I remember him breaking down, crying 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:11.320 and just saying like, this is all my fault. 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:14.400 This is you feel like this because. 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.319 Of you know, and I was like, no, it's not 0:42:17.560 --> 0:42:23.000 like if anything, me experiencing what I've gone through shows 0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:25.960 me the strength that you had to keep trying to 0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:30.880 stay alive to like father me through you know, all 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:34.000 the battles that you had, and it gives me really 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:37.040 good perspective as to the depression you battled. You know, 0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:39.759 like for a long time i'd be lying if I 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:42.840 didn't say I was resentful towards him for maybe not 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:46.719 giving me the best upbringing I could have had. But like, 0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:52.160 since I went through that depression myself, I was able 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:57.120 to empathize with the challenges he would have had, you know, 0:42:57.280 --> 0:43:01.880 a single or divorce from my from divorce from my mum, 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:07.360 from looking after me by himself, not having like barely 0:43:07.440 --> 0:43:12.720 spoke English, didn't left all of his family in another 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:17.440 country out here battling depression on his own without much help, 0:43:17.560 --> 0:43:20.799 trying to raise a pain in the ass little kid 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.120 who thought he knew everything, you know, Like for a 0:43:23.160 --> 0:43:26.360 long time, I was like, this isn't how raising a 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:28.319 son supposed to look Like he's supposed to be there 0:43:28.320 --> 0:43:30.800 for me. I supposed to be drinking here and then 0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:34.400 like it just gave me this perspective that the strength 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:37.360 he just kept waking up every day knowing that his 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:41.399 responsibility was to make sure I was, you know, because 0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:43.440 I know he didn't want to be like he wanted 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:48.840 to leave this world and what go to a better place, 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:53.520 And he stayed alive and kept fighting through so that 0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:56.799 he could give me every opportunity to do, you know, 0:43:56.880 --> 0:44:02.880 to live And now he's got a hand son, so's 0:44:02.000 --> 0:44:05.960 he's he's in a very he's a much better place now. 0:44:06.000 --> 0:44:09.680 But I just remember that conversation and he like straight 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:12.120 away thinking it was his fault because of you know, 0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:14.799 and I was like, no, it's not, it's not your Like, 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:18.480 it's actually made me realize the strength that you had 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:19.160 every day. 0:44:19.000 --> 0:44:19.680 To keep going. 0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:22.440 And it didn't it was an orthodox like it was, 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:24.879 you know, an unorthodox way of parenting. But like at 0:44:24.880 --> 0:44:29.000 the same time, it gave me such a huge perspective 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:32.960 of like, he didn't have the support I had. He 0:44:33.000 --> 0:44:35.640 didn't know, like he also didn't have the education I had. 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.520 He left school in year eight, so he didn't like 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.440 he didn't know if he worked at his mental health 0:44:41.520 --> 0:44:43.920 that he would actually get better. He just thought it 0:44:43.960 --> 0:44:46.799 was like, oh, I'm stuffed forever, you know, like there's 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:47.880 nothing I can do about it. 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:49.839 This is just me. This is the way my brain is. 0:44:50.480 --> 0:44:54.000 Like he had no education or no insight to believe 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:58.560 that if he worked at it, like things could improve. 0:44:58.680 --> 0:45:00.520 He just didn't know that that was a available. 0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:02.440 How do you feel now when you think back on 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:03.200 that conversation. 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:06.279 I think it was a really important conversation for both 0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:09.239 of us, like especially for me, because it's probably the 0:45:09.239 --> 0:45:14.440 first time I'd actually said thank you to him that 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:19.719 sort of perspective of sort of going through somewhat what 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:23.080 he would have gone through, I guess, but not to 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:26.319 the same extent, because I, you know, he'd actually gone 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:30.719 through my parents divorced, my two younger brothers when lived 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.439 with my mum and I stayed with my dad, and. 0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:38.080 He'd actually gone through sort of that whole. 0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:42.880 Family being taken away and everything he felt, almost everything 0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:44.840 he had in his life had just been taken away 0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:48.799 from him. And it got to a stage when I 0:45:48.960 --> 0:45:51.880 was you know, I felt like I did over nothing. 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:54.600 I was like, imagine if that happened to me, Like, 0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:58.759 imagine if when I got to his age and I 0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:03.000 didn't have that support network around him, and I put 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.480 myself in his shoes. I was like, there would have 0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:08.160 been no way I would have coped. Like I even 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.560 look back now, I just wonder how both my mum 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:13.800 and dad even ever decided to move from. 0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:14.960 Portugal to come out here. 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:16.839 You know, in the day of like you don't have 0:46:17.200 --> 0:46:19.319 they don't have duo Lingo to teach them how to 0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:21.680 learn how to speak a different language, they don't have 0:46:22.280 --> 0:46:24.880 the internet, all these apps and all these things that 0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:28.399 can help you integrate into society and stuff like that. 0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:31.879 They came out with a two year old kid, no 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:34.080 idea on what this culture was going to be like. 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:38.479 And they did it all for, you know, the hope 0:46:38.520 --> 0:46:41.760 of giving me and then eventually my two younger brothers 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:45.920 a better opportunity. And I just had no idea like 0:46:46.280 --> 0:46:48.719 the strength and courage you would have taken them to 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:52.000 do that, to leave their whole support network back home 0:46:52.200 --> 0:46:55.399 in Madeira, in Portugal. And I was always so quick 0:46:55.440 --> 0:46:57.279 to judge at how you could be doing things better. 0:46:57.280 --> 0:46:58.680 It's like, why don't you just do this better way? 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:01.319 And to do like black and white and like it's 0:47:01.360 --> 0:47:04.279 just so you feel this because of that. And I've 0:47:04.360 --> 0:47:07.960 just learned that life is lived in the gray. Like 0:47:08.000 --> 0:47:10.479 there it is not black and white. Nothing's ever black 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:14.880 and white, Like there is always gray, and there's always 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:18.440 a reason for why someone may have acted in a 0:47:18.480 --> 0:47:21.480 way or behaved in a way, and to you know, 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.640 to try and at least empathize with and be kind 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:25.760 to that person. 0:47:26.200 --> 0:47:27.560 Setbacks breed empathy. 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:33.439 Yeah, yeah, you said you thought about self medicating, did 0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:34.520 you ever self medicate? 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:35.600 I did. 0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:40.280 I did eventually with prescription medicine, so with any to presence. 0:47:41.040 --> 0:47:43.160 But that's not self medicating, that's getting help. 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:50.920 Yeah, well no, I didn't ever self medicate. I remember 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:53.879 lying in bed wanting too for a long time, and 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:58.320 you know, considering all the different types of drugs that 0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:00.640 will be possible, I didn't even at the stage I was. 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.120 Like, who would I call? Like who am I? Who 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:04.200 am I calling? To get? 0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:07.759 Like like, I didn't. I wasn't even thinking about recreational 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:10.520 party drugs. I was like, you know, where do I 0:48:10.560 --> 0:48:13.359 get these opioids? And you know, these things that are 0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:16.240 just going to numb, numb my brain to a point 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:17.400 of where I'm not thinking. 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:20.400 You know where I can't. I'm not capable of thought. 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:27.600 Luckily through just through education and like my own sort 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:31.120 of sense that I knew that that wasn't the right way, 0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:35.160 and I'd been I knew through therapy and I knew 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:40.440 through reading that there was light, like deep down it 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:42.279 it was just I had to work hard enough to 0:48:42.280 --> 0:48:44.680 get there. But there were so many times where I 0:48:44.719 --> 0:48:47.279 was like, no, it's too hard, Like it's going to 0:48:47.360 --> 0:48:50.200 take way too much work that would be a lot easier. 0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:51.040 I'll just do that. 0:48:51.239 --> 0:48:55.560 And I was like, no, you're actually you're educated enough 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:58.279 to know you know that there is light. If you 0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:00.879 want it, you just have to work for every day 0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:02.440 was like if I got through the day, that was 0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:05.319 a win, like the sun's up tomorrow, and try to 0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:09.680 tick little goals, tried to you know, started really small. Okay, 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.480 I didn't improve today, but things didn't get worse, Like 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:15.440 that's that's that's good. I got through the day and 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:20.400 sort of much much smaller goalpost. So I remember the 0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:25.080 strain psychologist Michael Lloyd. He said to me, you know 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:27.960 the story about the twenty cent piece in a phone booth, 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:32.719 sort of like when someone goes and checks, goes to 0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:34.600 make a phone call in the phone booth and then 0:49:34.680 --> 0:49:37.480 realizes there's two twenty cent pieces in the bottom of 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:38.000 the phone booth. 0:49:38.000 --> 0:49:40.920 They're like, oh look, I got a free. 0:49:40.680 --> 0:49:42.319 Phone call, and they just chuck it in, you know, 0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:45.160 check the twenty cent and you felt joy in that 0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:48.600 moment over something so small. If I found two twenty 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:50.919 cent pieces at that time of my life, I would 0:49:50.920 --> 0:49:53.759 have created a negative emotion out of that reaction. But 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:58.120 like trying to actually realize that it was my mind 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:01.840 that was telling me that, and every situation that happened 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.319 day to day. I was trying to have that sort 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:08.239 of twenty cent piece reaction to sort of each situation 0:50:08.360 --> 0:50:11.400 in the day. Oh that's a nice surprise. The mushrooms 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:13.800 taste quite good this morning. Actually, you know, I just 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:17.799 just really random stuff that I hadn't even considered being 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:21.799 a positive experience ever before. One of the things I 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:23.880 started doing was and I had to fake it at 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:27.320 the start, was I started keeping like a gratitude journal, 0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:30.640 and for the first month I had to fake it, 0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:33.640 Like I was like writing stuff at the end of 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:36.880 the day that I knew I should have been grateful 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:40.080 for at the time, but I actually wasn't. I was like, 0:50:40.280 --> 0:50:43.040 I should have been grateful for this person doing this, 0:50:43.160 --> 0:50:45.960 but I didn't even notice at the time that this happened. 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:50.120 Just through like days and days and days and weeks 0:50:50.120 --> 0:50:53.120 of doing this and committing to it, they like I 0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:55.560 actually started to pick up on those moments in the 0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:58.399 day that I should have been grateful for, Oh, thank 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:00.799 you very much for doing that, Like I'd really appreciate it. 0:51:00.840 --> 0:51:02.839 And then maybe i'd send a text or i'd send 0:51:02.880 --> 0:51:05.759 a letter to say thank you and to actually express 0:51:05.840 --> 0:51:08.920 how I felt in a much healthier way than just. 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:10.040 Going, oh, thanks mate. 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:14.560 Those kinds of things started to feel like second nature 0:51:14.600 --> 0:51:16.759 all of a sudden, like I was actually noticing the 0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:20.319 good things that happened every day to me. And I 0:51:20.360 --> 0:51:23.279 actually started to feel like I was, you know, like, oh, 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:25.839 I'm having a good day, like these look at all 0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:30.200 these great But what I realized was my days hadn't changed. 0:51:30.280 --> 0:51:33.120 It was just like my perception on the days had changed. 0:51:33.280 --> 0:51:35.880 The lenses on my sunglasses had changed. It was like 0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:38.839 I was wearing these really dark black lenses and now 0:51:38.880 --> 0:51:41.040 I'm just wearing these light lenses and I'm seeing the 0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:43.799 best in every situation. My gratitude journal got to a 0:51:43.800 --> 0:51:46.480 stage where I started off that old saying fake it. 0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:47.000 Till you make it. 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:50.319 But I was spending twenty minutes trying to find one 0:51:50.400 --> 0:51:52.879 or two things to be grateful for. And I still 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:57.280 remember the sentences I'd write were like I'm grateful because 0:51:57.520 --> 0:51:59.920 my dog Morton came and met me at the door. 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:04.160 At the door, and I'm grateful because Christa made dinner, 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:08.400 and like these absolute like I wasn't even engaging with 0:52:08.719 --> 0:52:11.160 like what I was writing down. I realized, like, after 0:52:11.239 --> 0:52:13.440 six months of doing it, I had to actually stop 0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:17.120 keeping a journal because everything I wrote that same moment 0:52:17.480 --> 0:52:20.440 of like when Christa made me dinner. I started like 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:24.080 writing a paragraph about that moment. You know, I was 0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:27.319 like this and the efforts she went to and it 0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:30.360 made me feel like this, and I just respect like 0:52:30.840 --> 0:52:34.759 these qualities about her and my dog and he did this, 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:37.200 and like my mate, he came picked me up, and 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:40.719 I would write the whole moment because I'd experienced that 0:52:40.760 --> 0:52:44.040 whole moment and I remembered everything about how that moment 0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:46.560 made me feel. By the end, I was like spending 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:50.120 an hour and a half in bed writing down fifteen 0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:52.279 twenty things I was grateful for. I was doing like 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:55.880 two pages worth of gratitude like I couldn't and I 0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:57.920 was like, Okay, this is getting to a point where 0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:02.640 maybe it's becoming a bit of an obsession and I'm 0:53:02.680 --> 0:53:06.239 writing way too much. But it had helped me experience 0:53:06.320 --> 0:53:10.120 the moment, to experience those nice twenty cent piece moments 0:53:10.160 --> 0:53:13.520 of like that nice feeling of when something good happens 0:53:13.560 --> 0:53:16.399 to you, or when a situation happens to you and 0:53:16.440 --> 0:53:18.640 you take it and accept it in a positive way, 0:53:19.160 --> 0:53:22.520 flipping my perspective on that sort of hole, maybe even 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:25.160 a little bit of a victim mentality of like oh 0:53:25.200 --> 0:53:28.839 it's so hard, like nothing good happens, and just through 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:31.879 time and doing it day like day and day and 0:53:32.080 --> 0:53:35.279 sort of becoming more and more present because oh, what 0:53:35.320 --> 0:53:37.800 am I going to write in my gratitude diary later tonight? 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:40.239 And you're like, oh, you're looking for things. And then 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:42.920 I started to do things like the things I looked 0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:45.120 forward to in the next day, so I would tell 0:53:45.160 --> 0:53:47.759 myself that things were going to be good moments. And 0:53:47.800 --> 0:53:49.720 again I was faking it till I made it, because 0:53:49.760 --> 0:53:52.239 I was like I remembered writing things like I look 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:54.800 forward to the opportunity to go out to bat tomorrow, 0:53:55.040 --> 0:53:57.960 and I was lying to myself. I was like, I 0:53:58.000 --> 0:54:00.560 did not look forward to that. I'm absolutely hearing that, 0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:03.360 but like I knew I should have been looking forward 0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:07.160 to it, and it was a way for me to go, okay, 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:09.520 like this is a step towards. 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:11.200 And like now when I go out to bat. 0:54:12.200 --> 0:54:14.000 I went out to bat in the AUSSI a game 0:54:14.040 --> 0:54:16.880 against England a and I remember thinking like if that 0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:18.600 had happened to me four years ago. I would have 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:21.920 been so worried and had this fear of failure. But 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.080 I remember, like we were two for not many or 0:54:25.080 --> 0:54:26.400 three for not many when I went out to be 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:29.800 an absolute like it was green and it was seeming 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:31.400 around everybody's like, what a challenge. 0:54:31.400 --> 0:54:32.600 How good is this going to be? It's going to 0:54:32.640 --> 0:54:33.319 be so much fun. 0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:35.799 It's underlie its pink ball, Like if I can get 0:54:35.840 --> 0:54:38.759 through this, it's like, what a great opportunity. And I 0:54:38.800 --> 0:54:41.000 actually believed what I was telling myself. 0:54:41.040 --> 0:54:45.440 You know, so you sent out a social media post 0:54:45.680 --> 0:54:48.279 a couple of weeks ago. You know that you still 0:54:48.320 --> 0:54:50.960 have your moments and it is tough, and you mentioned 0:54:51.000 --> 0:54:55.640 earlier you're a new dad. How hard has it been? 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:59.120 And you know, and what have you learned about yourself 0:54:59.160 --> 0:54:59.880 in that. 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:03.040 When I put out that post, I wasn't in a 0:55:03.080 --> 0:55:06.320 bad space myself. I did get a lot of people 0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:10.040 contacting me worried about how I was. I probably should 0:55:10.040 --> 0:55:13.000 have put a disclaimer on my post that I was 0:55:13.040 --> 0:55:16.120 doing okay, and I apologized to anyone who was worried. 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:18.520 It definitely wasn't a cry out for help, but it 0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:21.920 was more so a post because I just read I 0:55:22.000 --> 0:55:24.880 just finished reading a book that sort of spoke a 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:28.480 lot about the expectations that social media and stuff can 0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:33.879 put on people. And you know, that constant comparison, that 0:55:34.000 --> 0:55:36.880 life comparison, of the journey you're going through in the 0:55:36.920 --> 0:55:40.120 journey other people going through. And I remember going through 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:43.560 my own posts and thinking, other than a couple of 0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:47.440 posts like back when I actually went through my depression 0:55:47.480 --> 0:55:50.640 and stuff, and my whole social feed was like good times, 0:55:50.800 --> 0:55:55.040 you know, photos on holidays, photos playing golf, photos of 0:55:55.920 --> 0:55:59.719 you know, me at the cafe, photos of the dog, 0:55:59.840 --> 0:56:03.400 of for my son, of my wife and and my friends, 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:05.320 and we're all smiling and having a good time. 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:07.760 No whenever post photos of when they got a duck. 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:11.600 Exactly like it's just highlights. It's just an absolute highlight reel. 0:56:11.600 --> 0:56:14.880 And I thought, I thought, jeez, I'd never even considered 0:56:14.880 --> 0:56:20.560 that my social media could be providing like a false 0:56:20.920 --> 0:56:23.920 narrative of what my life looks like to someone who 0:56:24.000 --> 0:56:26.560 might be comparing themselves and going, well, he's doing all 0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:28.799 these things, this is what my life needs to look like. 0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.279 Especially because I'd had a son and I was a 0:56:32.360 --> 0:56:35.480 new father. I was so proud of being a new father, 0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:38.440 and I was so happy to see like whenever he 0:56:38.560 --> 0:56:41.160 pipped out a little smile, or if I'd changed his 0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:44.640 nappy successfully or got got him to sleep successfully, I 0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:45.879 was like, oh, yeah, I've done my job. 0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:46.680 How goodxist, you know. 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:50.480 But there were so many moments in between of just 0:56:50.520 --> 0:56:53.680 feeling completely out of depth as a father and feeling 0:56:53.800 --> 0:56:56.640 like completely like I had no idea what's going on. 0:56:57.000 --> 0:56:59.640 But all my social posts were the opposite of like 0:56:59.760 --> 0:57:02.920 just times like this is me changing the baby, he's 0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:04.799 just done a pooh, and like, yeah, this is like 0:57:05.080 --> 0:57:08.359 I'm really happy about it, but no, it's a real 0:57:08.480 --> 0:57:12.160 inconvenience at times, you know, and it's not It wasn't 0:57:12.160 --> 0:57:14.960 bloody easy. And I just thought to myself, like, I actually, 0:57:15.360 --> 0:57:17.720 I think I owe it to other people to show 0:57:17.760 --> 0:57:21.760 them this life projection and the life comparison that social 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.920 media can do. That I definitely appreciate that I am 0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:26.600 very lucky. I have a great life, and I am 0:57:26.720 --> 0:57:29.920 very lucky, but there's no way that my social media 0:57:30.120 --> 0:57:32.400 is a great reflection on what my actual life is, 0:57:32.440 --> 0:57:34.640 you know, like I'm only posting the highlights on. 0:57:34.640 --> 0:57:37.920 Here, especially when you're somebody that's come out so publicly 0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:39.960 and said this is what I've been through as well, 0:57:40.000 --> 0:57:43.000 So you have almost feel like there's more pressure on. 0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:46.200 You to well, that's yeah, I think that's exactly right too. 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:48.880 Like I didn't want to feel like that may be 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:52.920 my profile or my social media sort of page or 0:57:52.960 --> 0:57:55.440 whatever it might have been. And I wasn't too self 0:57:55.480 --> 0:57:59.400 indulgent to think that, like people were doing that, but 0:57:59.680 --> 0:58:02.080 I just thought, I don't want to be part of 0:58:02.080 --> 0:58:05.200 the problem. Sure as hell, someone not everyone would have 0:58:05.280 --> 0:58:08.920 all the symptoms of anxiety or depression, and not everyone 0:58:09.000 --> 0:58:11.880 maybe some people don't have any. But if there's one 0:58:11.960 --> 0:58:14.600 symptom or two or three or however many symptoms, if 0:58:14.640 --> 0:58:18.280 you can relate to it and understand it, Yeah, I 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:21.200 felt that. Yeah, I've done that as well. It's okay 0:58:21.240 --> 0:58:23.880 to feel that, the feeling of that you're not unique 0:58:23.920 --> 0:58:26.120 in your problem, or that you're not not alone. 0:58:26.240 --> 0:58:27.160 You're not alone. 0:58:27.440 --> 0:58:30.000 I've really enjoyed talking to you because I think you 0:58:30.080 --> 0:58:32.560 have a really unique ability to put it into words 0:58:32.600 --> 0:58:35.200 and explain it in a way that it's almost like 0:58:35.400 --> 0:58:39.120 it becomes a self help manual. The things that you've 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:42.280 learned and what's helpful to people, and I think that's 0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:45.520 the key to this podcast is at celebrating resilience, so 0:58:45.560 --> 0:58:47.760 it's not just focusing on what you've been through, but 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:52.240 also coming out the other end, hopefully. I wanted to 0:58:52.280 --> 0:58:55.920 finish by asking you, how do you feel about cricket now? 0:58:56.720 --> 0:58:57.360 Yeah? 0:58:57.680 --> 0:59:01.560 I still feel like right now, I accept I'm a 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:03.880 lot closer to the end of my career than the start, 0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:07.560 and i'd hope so. I've been playing for fifteen years 0:59:07.600 --> 0:59:10.840 now professionally, so it's I mean, if I was more 0:59:10.880 --> 0:59:13.720 than fifteen years away from the end, I'd be real worry. 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:23.440 But I think I've like, I enjoy the game a 0:59:23.480 --> 0:59:26.200 lot more now than what I did three or four 0:59:26.240 --> 0:59:29.800 years ago. There's absolutely no doubt about that. I'm probably 0:59:29.840 --> 0:59:36.520 not as aspirational as I was ten years ago, five, ten, 0:59:36.640 --> 0:59:43.440 fifteen years ago. I don't care as much about wanting 0:59:43.480 --> 0:59:46.760 to play for Australia and wanting to wear the Baggy 0:59:46.800 --> 0:59:49.800 Green and wanting to do these things because everyone told 0:59:49.840 --> 0:59:53.000 me I should. What I care about is trying my 0:59:53.160 --> 0:59:56.920 absolute best in every moment to be the best person 0:59:56.960 --> 1:00:00.000 I can be. So whether that's as a cricketer as 1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:03.200 which is my occupation at the moment, or whether that's 1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:05.320 as a friend or as a captain, or as a 1:00:05.440 --> 1:00:09.720 husband or as a father. Like so yeah, I do 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:11.360 I do want to be I still want to be 1:00:11.400 --> 1:00:14.840 the very best cricketer I can be, and to do that, 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:18.120 I still feel like I have to challenge myself against 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:20.240 the best. So I still do want to play for Australia. 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:22.440 I still do want to have success in the Australian 1:00:22.480 --> 1:00:26.080 cricket team. But it isn't like that isn't what keeps 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:28.720 me going. It's like what keeps me going now is 1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:31.600 sort of just being the best person I can be, 1:00:31.600 --> 1:00:34.120 being the best cricketer I can be, and having as 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:38.200 like as positive influence on the team that I play 1:00:38.240 --> 1:00:41.720 in with whether it's people in the actual playing leven 1:00:41.840 --> 1:00:44.800 or the squad and using my own experiences I guess 1:00:44.960 --> 1:00:48.960 of and there's no doubt, and especially in cricket, but 1:00:49.200 --> 1:00:51.800 and even hearing other people's store other you know, whether 1:00:51.800 --> 1:00:55.200 it's AFL or rugby league, rugby union, any sports, all 1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:59.160 the individual sports as well, hearing the stories of self 1:00:59.200 --> 1:01:00.720 doubt depression and how common it. 1:01:00.720 --> 1:01:01.560 Is in elite sport. 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:04.720 I do feel like I've through what I've been through 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:07.320 I can communicate that, and I feel like I can 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:10.560 observe and see some of those symptoms that I had 1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:13.680 never do I say, you're going through this, you're doing that? 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:17.800 Of course not, but like I observe similar things that 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:20.800 he's putting a lot of pressure on himself like I 1:01:20.920 --> 1:01:23.800 used to. I still love competing, even though I accept 1:01:24.040 --> 1:01:27.560 competition isn't always the healthiest thing for well being. But 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:30.920 I still love that contest of playing sport of trying to. 1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.960 I don't love to see other people fail. I don't 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:37.440 love winning because I like seeing other people losing. I 1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:39.920 love competing because I want to do better than I 1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:42.120 did yesterday. I want to be a better better than 1:01:42.160 --> 1:01:43.800 I was last week. I want to be a better 1:01:43.840 --> 1:01:46.480 bowler than I was last week, or than I was, 1:01:46.840 --> 1:01:49.400 you know, five years ago. That's why I love competing. 1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:51.960 I want to make more birdies than I did, or 1:01:52.080 --> 1:01:55.320 make less bogies, I should say, than I did a 1:01:55.320 --> 1:01:57.600 couple of years ago. So for competition, for me, it's 1:01:57.640 --> 1:02:00.440 not so much about wanting to dominate someone else. It's 1:02:00.440 --> 1:02:03.680 actually just for me keep trying to improve and keep 1:02:03.680 --> 1:02:06.080 trying to get better. And also, if I don't like 1:02:06.280 --> 1:02:09.480 now learning that sort of compassion of it's okay, like 1:02:09.520 --> 1:02:12.120 you tried your best, because it's so easy to forget, 1:02:12.200 --> 1:02:14.360 and I think that's really important thing for me to 1:02:14.360 --> 1:02:17.880 remember continuously, because I still forget whether I do well 1:02:17.920 --> 1:02:20.160 at cricket or whether I don't, whether I do have 1:02:20.240 --> 1:02:23.360 a positive impact on someone else or I don't, as 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.960 long as I know deep down that I tried my 1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:28.320 best in that moment, like that's you know, I guess 1:02:28.400 --> 1:02:29.880 at the end of the day, that's all I can do. 1:02:30.320 --> 1:02:32.200 The courage to be kinder to yourself. 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:35.040 Yeah, it's harder than it sounds. It is. 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:39.680 It is. Thank you for chatting to me. I could 1:02:39.760 --> 1:02:40.800 chat to you all day. 1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:44.040 I really do appreciate it, and I think what you're 1:02:44.040 --> 1:02:45.080 doing is pretty powerful. 1:02:45.080 --> 1:02:46.120 It's already helped a lot. 1:02:46.040 --> 1:02:47.880 Of people with what you've done, and I hope this 1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:50.240 kind of podcast is going to help a lot more. 1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:52.240 So, thank you, Thanks Nay, thanks for having me on. 1:02:52.320 --> 1:02:56.240 I've enjoyed it so time. 1:02:57.320 --> 1:03:00.400 If you enjoyed this episode of ordinarily speaking, I want 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:03.480 to go back and check out the episode with Glenn Maxwell, 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:06.920 who detailed his break from the game for mental health reasons. 1:03:07.280 --> 1:03:10.360 Remember if this chat has triggered something for you, Please 1:03:10.520 --> 1:03:15.280 ask for help. If you enjoy this podcast, follow Ordinarily 1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:49.760 Underscore Speaking on Instagram and make sure you hit subscribe 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:00.080 And