WEBVTT - Episode 1: The Lady Garden 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:04.600 Hey, it's Pats from The Christian O'Connell Show. 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.520 Thanks for downloading episode one of my new podcast series, 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.520 Rage Against the Menopause. Entering Perimenopause, you know, I was 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:15.680 really grappling for some clarity and reassurance. I kind of 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.120 felt a bit ripped off, to be honest, after a 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.799 lifetime of polycystic ovarian syndrome and endometriosis, I thought, hang on, 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:24.360 now I've got to go through this. 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.240 I think this is something that we need to talk about. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.240 And every time I've touched on it on the show, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.239 We've had an overwhelming response from listeners saying we need 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.239 to talk about it, and I agree. We need to 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.480 remove the stigma. We talk so much about pregnancy, conception, childbirth, 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.760 why not menopause. I'm out to change that. I do 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:48.040 want to change the narrative. I'm hoping that by me 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.000 being candid about my own experience that we can build 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.640 a community of support for other women. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:54.800 It is a no holds barred chat. 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.440 We cover a lot of things, a lot of topics, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.680 helping to remove the stigma and show the power strength 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.520 that comes with menopause. This episode, it's titled The Lady Garden. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.160 It features doctor Sarah White, CEO of gene Hale's for 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.200 Women's Health, Australia's first women's health clinic, only the second 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:14.920 in the world dedicated to menopause. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.040 I hope you get something from it. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.800 My very first and very special guest is doctor Sarah White, 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.039 who I have known for quite some time at the 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:28.080 Anti Cancer Council and the Quick Campaign. 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:29.840 I think must be twenty years. 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.600 Sarah, Well, you and I haven't known each other that long, 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.480 but yes, quit's been around for thirty years and you 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.560 and I have been talking for oh seven or. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:40.160 Eight maybe seven or eight so, and you, of course 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.840 are at the gene Hales Foundation in Melbourne. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.600 Welcome, Thank you. Tell me about the gene Hales Foundation 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:49.520 in Melbourne. Sure so. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.120 The gene Hales was an extraordinary doctor and she set 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.360 up the first menopause clinic in Australia and it was 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.760 only the second in the world because she recognized that 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.720 women just were not getting the care and attention. And 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:04.360 legend has it that the very first day she opened 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.080 the clinic, she had a little article in the newspaper 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:08.600 about it. And the second day she opened the clinic, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:12.040 there were women lined up around the block to come 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.440 in and talk to doctor Hale's. Now tragically, doctor Hales 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.920 died at a relatively young age, and so her colleague 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.680 started the Gene Hales Foundation in her honor, and so 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.840 gen Hales for Women's Health Today is our training name, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.400 if you like, and we cover a whole range of 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.720 women's health issues, not just menopause, but a whole range 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.480 of women's health issues that we sometimes called the lady 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.040 garden between the navel and the knees. 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:42.440 So let's talk minopause. So it's something I am definitely 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.000 going through. When I look back on it, I actually 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.920 think I probably started at about thirty nine, because I 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.919 can remember driving into the studio and I just I've 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.240 just come back from Matt leave and I had this 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.040 heat at the back of my neck where it started, 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.400 and I thought I've been rushing around, you know, dropping 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.200 off at daycare and trying to get to work on time. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:08.840 But now when I look back, I think it was 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.560 a progression from that point. 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:12.560 I think that was like. 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:17.239 The start of my hot flushes, and I also got vertigo. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.239 I remember we went to Queensland for a family trip 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.360 and my daughter was probably two, and I found it 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:28.160 really hard walking around the parks because I was like 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.639 spinning and I thought it was just I've got near 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.040 infection or something. But I actually think it was related 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.760 to menopause when I think about it, because my periods 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.240 were starting to sort of hit and miss and be erratic. 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.240 What let's get to the basics. What is menopause? How 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:45.160 is it defined? 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.600 Well, it's actually a really tricky definition in some ways 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.560 because you don't know that you've hit menopause until after 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.440 the fact. So menopause technically is twelve months to the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.840 date after you finished your last period, so you don't 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.360 really know until day you look back and go, oh, gosh, 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.880 that was more than twelve months. I'm actually I've gone 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:09.600 through that transition. Officially, postmenopause will now the period we 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:13.160 usually talk about when we say menopause, we actually mean perimenopause. 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.680 So that's the lead up to that point in time, 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.320 twelve months after periods have stopped. So there are some 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:21.880 people who get very angry we don't say perimenopause all 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:25.320 the time, but most people understand it as menopause. And 0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:29.320 that's the period when estrogen levels start to fluctuate and 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.960 then decrease, and it's really because you're overrestop functioning. So 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.839 it's the end of that reproductive life, and you know, 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.719 it's we sometimes talk about it always as like this 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:44.600 deficit thing, your levels are dropping, your over reseration. It's 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.200 a completely negative thing. In some cultures, menopause is really 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.880 embraced as the second age, the coming of wisdom point. 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.640 And if you're a woman who's experienced really terrible periods, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.240 you know, very heavy bleeding, regular periods, painful periods, pause 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.479 can actually be a really good time because all of 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:03.200 that's behind you. 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:07.480 Yeah, I've got polycystic o very in syndrome and endometriosis 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:09.760 as well, and I sort of felt, to be honest, 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.000 I felt a little bit ripped off, Sarah, because I thought, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.960 hang on, I've gone through infertility and all these other 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:21.160 health issues, and now you're telling me that I'm faced 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.719 with this. And what I find really frustrating is that 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:29.200 perimenopausal period that it's a tunnel and you don't know 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.479 how far through the tunnel you are, how long the 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.159 tunnel is. And you can go to a GP, even 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.599 a specialist, and they can't there's nothing definitive when you 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.159 really want. I guess maybe I'm like a scientific approach 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.520 kind of person where it's blacker. It's it's like, well, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.600 am I or aren't I? And the fact that you 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.280 can't get an answer, it seems like a bit like. 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:56.080 A tell me, yeah, it would be great if we 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.679 had a blood test that said you are definitively. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.200 Now here and your tunnel. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.360 Your tunnel is six and a half months, yes, two 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.320 point eight years, and then you're done and unfortunately no. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.240 And you know, sometimes that's really. 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:09.760 The hard thing to manage. 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.200 And I find it because you know, I'm the same 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.760 as you got the hot flushes, got the insomnia. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.200 Occasionally, thank god, the insomnia. 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.760 What is that word? I've got that word. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.360 Yes, I'm trying to get it. A dead brain moment, 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:24.560 brain fog. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.200 You know, it's frustrated, It can be really frustrating, and 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:30.719 I think we just have to try and be really 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.400 patient and manage the symptoms and try not to worry 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.640 how long our tunnel is taking, because everyone's tunnel is 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.560 different lengths, and you know, if we stretch a really 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.320 bad metaphor, you know, the tunnel for some is really 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.240 rocky and horrible and hard, and for others it's a 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:46.480 four lane freeway. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.040 That's the thing. It's so different. 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:52.880 Everyone's experience is so different. And I'm happy to say 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.720 that not every day is a crap day. You have 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.279 good days where you actually do feel normal in inverted 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.719 commas again, and other days where you don't. I'm actually 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.640 not taking anything. I'm not saying that to say, oh 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.240 look at me, I'm so strong. That's not what their 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:11.560 experience is different. What I've found frustrating, and I've spoken 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.400 to my gynecologist about, is at what point, at what 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.320 point do you know you should be taking something Like 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:21.920 when do you know? 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:26.280 You know when those symptoms start to really impact your 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.840 mental and emotional well being or impact your ability to 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.200 do your daily activities or your job. So if it 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:34.800 gets to the point where you are really struggling with something, 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.560 then you go and talk to your doctor. And if 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.400 your doctor says, oh, look it's just menopause, go to 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.720 the website of the Australasian Menopause Society, find a doctor 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:45.200 who has a real interest in menopause and go and 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:48.240 see them. Easier said than done for rural and regional 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:53.680 people for sure, but menopause symptoms for about roughly you 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.640 know the rule of thumb twenty percent will have a 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.040 really hard time, twenty percent will not, and the rest 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.360 fall somewhere in the middle. People who need that support 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:02.600 should not hesitate to go. 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:03.040 And get it. 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:05.680 If the symptoms are really interfering with your life, you 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.280 don't have to put up with anything. No. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.760 I think that's the point, isn't it. It's like my 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.720 mum always told me with periods, have you got pain? 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.080 I was like, actually, yeah, I think I actually feel 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.120 really rotten. And she used to say to me, well, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.680 you don't, you know, you don't actually have to put 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:24.040 up with that, Like take something for it. Don't be 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.960 a hero. If you need something, absolutely take it. 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.360 And we really know that there's a lot of women 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.520 who think that nothing can be done, and that's really 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.360 sad because in most cases, something can be done. And 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.640 if you're struggling with menopause symptoms, for example, I found, 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.040 you know, personally, I insomnia was the worst thing for me. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.760 Always been a bit of an insomniac, much much worse 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.200 through this period. And I just went and got just 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.560 a little bit of like a sleepaid to start off with, 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.040 and I worked my way up a little bit and 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.679 talk to my doctor about what the options were I'm 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.800 not on menopause hormone therapy, I would have no hesitation 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.840 on taking it if I need to. I've been fortunate 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.560 that I've been okay manageable symptoms. A lot of my 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.120 friends have had managable symptoms. I've got one or two 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.719 friends who've really had a bad time where they've had 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.640 menopause hormone therapy and it's really helped. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:14.040 Let's talk about HRT. 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.439 There's still a lot of cloud and kind of innuendo 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:19.560 around HRT. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.160 Is it safe for most people? 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.640 It is about Look, it's a medicine. There's always side 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.280 effects of medicines. There's always concerns. But there was a 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.520 study done a number of years ago and the results 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.240 were not interpreted well, they were publicized really badly, and 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.040 overnight a huge number of women ripped off their menopause 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.160 homone therapy or hormone replacement therapy patches. And we're really 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.360 worried about this increased risk of breast cancer. But the 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.079 risk is actually very small. The risk is small, and 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.160 so for some women who have a history of breasts cancer, 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:53.439 for example, they need. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:54.200 To talk to their doctor. 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:55.880 You should talk to your doctor all the time when 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.280 you're gonna have a medicine, but it's certainly if your 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.959 doctor and you have that conversation and the doctor says 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.360 this could help, you shouldn't be afraid of taking it. 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.000 And that's the thing too, I want to point out, 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.080 is the conversation. This is my whole point of doing 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.040 this podcast. It is experiencing it myself. We all talk 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:18.720 about fertility and about conception and pregnancy. Why aren't we 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:23.319 being open and honest and raw and organic about menopause? 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.360 Why is it such a dirty word. Why can't we 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:31.040 open the conversation. It's a perfectly normal stage of life. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.200 Every woman, every person with ovaries is going to go 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.520 through menopause, right, So it has been it has been 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.000 a bit of a taboo subject for a long time. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:42.520 I feel like that's really changed over the last few years. 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.040 And I think it has to do with gendered ageism. 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.199 To be honest, Yes, I think it's been seen as 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.960 a sign of and shown in popular culture of oh 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.880 you've hit the change, and now suddenly all. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:56.920 This gray headed old hag. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.120 And shovy up in the top page get about you. 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.240 Every productive years over. So what's your point really? 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.719 And that's just you know, I think that's where a 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:07.559 lot of women struggle. We live about a third of 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.200 our lives after menopause. We're still incredibly productive. Not only 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.720 we incredibly productive, we're incredibly wise. We've reached a certain 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:19.559 threshold of you know, don't care factor if we're confident. 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.440 So it's not something that we should be worried about. 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.040 But I think it's comes from that gendered ageism. 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.360 To be perfectly honest, I agree, and I think there 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.520 is such a wisdom. I'm fifty one now, but there 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.880 is such a wisdom I think about turning fifty. It's 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.880 almost like, as opposed to your flower dying and wilting away, 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.920 it's actually starting to bloom because I think you're starting 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.400 to grow into your skin and your confidence shines through, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.280 and you think, you know what, I'm not going to 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.960 make apologies anymore. If no one likes me or how 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.320 I am, that's their problem, not mine. 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.080 Sure, it's an interesting notion, absolutely. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.360 And there's actually only just very rich Like within the 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:03.319 last three or four weeks, a study on chimpanzees reaching menopause. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.960 So before then it was humans and it was whales. 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:08.840 You know, that's the only thing, because I don't know 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.880 what these scientists thought that suddenly older females of a 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.520 species just you know, I can't have children anymore, so. 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:15.959 I just drop off the perch. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.520 And what they find in certainly in the whales, is 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.240 the grandmothers I feel like, or the older females are 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.199 the ones who are responsible for guarding the pod and 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.120 looking after the young ones. So you know, it shouldn't 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.720 be seen as now I'm done and dusted because my 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:33.920 ovaries have stopped working. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.240 Yes, what do you think about menopause in the workplace? 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.680 What sort of statistics have we got about women in 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.840 the workforce struggling and productivity, that sort of thing. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.960 We don't have a lot, And what we do have 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.160 is based on what we call convenience samplings. So you 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:50.960 go to a group of women and say how has 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.199 menopause affected you? And the people who have been affected say, oh, 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:55.720 I'm going to fill in that survey, And the people 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.080 who haven't been affected say, oh, it's not relevant to me, 0:12:58.120 --> 0:12:59.280 So I'm not going to fill it in because it 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.520 hasn't affected me. So Gene Hailes has just conducted the 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.800 National Women's Health Survey and we asked women, you know, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.240 have you missed days of work because you've had symptoms 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.920 that you thought were menopause. And about seven percent of 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.120 women said in this forty five to sixty four age range, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.680 about seven percent said I've missed days and about fourteen 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.920 percent said I've taken an extended break from work. Now, 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:24.800 we didn't define extended break, so it could have been 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.000 a week, it could have been a month, that could 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:28.760 have been a year. So we do know that it 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.199 has an effect on women. We do know that there 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.440 are going to be some jobs in some workplaces that 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:40.680 aren't very sympathetic. But I think there's a really there's real. 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.840 Scope to improve what we do in the workplace, not 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:44.000 just for menopause. 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.080 I think we've got to be really careful about focusing 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.439 just on menopause. With workplace flexibility for women, it has 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.280 to also be for people who have as you mentioned, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.280 you know, pecause, in demetriosis, all these conditions where we 0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.280 need to have access to a bathroom, you know, a 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.520 bit of flexibility around pelvic pain, So not just menopause. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.080 I'm going right off track here, Patrina. You know, I 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.920 think we have to create an environment where we normalize discussion. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.280 That's what I mean we need to talk about it. 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.440 Don't mean might be honest about it. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.280 Yeah, I mean we just turned it into a joke 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.760 around the office. Easy to do it, Gene Hales, to 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:23.800 turn that into office. But you know, I've been in 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:25.520 meetings We've gone, oh, hang on a minute, hot flush 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.440 coming in, found myself and everybody has a giggle, we 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.080 move on. That's not going to happen in every workplace, 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.280 of course, But the more we have these sorts of discussions, 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.240 the more we normalize talking about hot flushes or brain 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:41.000 fog or you know, the better. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.280 We are brain fog. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.720 You know. Being on air on the Christian O'Connell Show 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:47.880 and as the news reader on the show, there's been 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.880 several times where I've gone off on a tangent and 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:57.600 then completely forgotten about a word or it's it's so 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:02.000 humiliating as a broadcaster. It's like because I guess maybe 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:06.360 in a different office environment it's not as noticeable, but 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.560 when I do it on air, it's there's a lot 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:10.000 of people. 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.280 Of course here, you stuff up. 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.080 Absolutently, and to Christian and Jack notice or do you notice? 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.080 I don't think they do. I think it's me. I 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.160 don't know I don't think they do. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:20.400 So going back to that. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.480 Question around workplaces, I do wonder if some of the 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.360 reason why, you know, we have when we do these 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.320 surveys of people who say, you know, why did you 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.000 leave the work force, and some will say because of menopause, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.200 And I wonder if it's actually about a loss of confidence, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.560 because you know, in some roles, imagine you're a barrister 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.560 and you're cross examining the witness and you suddenly lost 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.600 that keyword. You know, exactly what's the opposite of guilty again? 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.160 You know, no, But it is as simple as that, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:49.400 It really is. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.720 Absolutely, you know. I think confidence is a big thing. 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.280 I think when you I know, when I had my 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.200 daughter and in. 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:01.080 That sort of here we go, there's a fade again. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.680 In the Matt Leaf period, you do lose confidence because 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.400 you not that your whole identity is on what you 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.480 do or who you are in that sense. But it's 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.320 I think it's just that routine of going into it 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.480 when you've done something like I had for twenty years 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.960 and that stopped out. And I think it's the same 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.120 with menopause. There's an anxiety. I know one of my 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:31.000 girlfriends has really bad anxiety from her menopause, Like it's 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:35.080 really disabling for her some days. Is that obviously just 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:36.800 a hormone impact. 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.520 Yes, probably, And look it's it's the thing with menopause 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.440 is it's really hard to disentangle from everything else that's 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.240 going on in our lives when we're that age. And 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.400 I saw I've adopted this phrase. I saw in an 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:51.520 article which is called was called about midlife collision. So 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.040 we have, you know, we have kids of a certain age, 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.720 we have increased responsibilities at our job. We've got a 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.760 partner that who may or may not be driving us 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.800 bomb because because we've been together for twenty odd years, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.080 we've got elderly. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:04.600 Parentldly parents who need. 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.119 More cares, all the socially labor of running households. And 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.959 so this is a point where you then add on 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:15.360 some insomnia from menopause or whatever else. It could be anything, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.480 and suddenly that middle life collision becomes a catastrophe. 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.600 So I'm always a little bit wary. 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.760 About saying everything's due to menopause. It could be secondary 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.040 to lack of sleep. It really could be about a 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.840 lot of other factors in your life. So if we 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.520 put everything in the menopause basket. I think we risk 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.520 the opportunity of actually getting to the root cause of 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.600 what the challenge is for any one individual. But certainly 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:43.280 menopause has been associated with anxiety and depression, definitely with 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:47.120 you know, loss of labido, which can put more relation not. 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.840 Even interested, which is actually like hit me in the face, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.199 because it's that's something it was real. 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.000 It's really foreign us. It's like, hang on, but not 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.919 even this is weird. It's like a tap that's just 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:00.440 switched on. 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.160 And you've also got this lovely phrase of vaginal atrophy, 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.200 so dryness and thin skin for some women. Though not 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.040 only is there a lack of interest in sex, but 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.119 sex becomes incredibly painful, you know. And these are the 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.560 sorts of things where we really want women to be 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.960 able to normalize that discussion and particularly go into the doctor. 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:21.280 That's something we don't wan to talk about in the 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.439 workforce potentially, but go to your doctor and talk to 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.600 them about it, because you can have those MHT creams 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:31.560 that you know you can suffer help absolutely. 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.679 The other thing that you know we were talking we 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.000 touched on earlier about the finish line, the end line, 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.480 which is different for everyone and we can't tell when 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.200 it is, but I will quite often stop and ask 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.520 myself and when will I. 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.280 Feel like what's on side? 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.320 Like what happens once we are through and we're officially 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.520 in that menopause after the twelve months of not having 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.640 a period, Like, do we still get hot flushes? 0:18:58.720 --> 0:18:59.679 Is that so? 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.240 Hot flushes can last for a long time for some 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.000 women unfortunately, So there are some women who report, you know, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.600 for even ten years after menopause they get hot flushes. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:10.960 So I think this is important again keep checking in 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:12.840 with your doctor. Should I still be getting these things. 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.840 The other thing that happens is you do have new 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.280 health challenges when you're in the post menopause will phase. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.479 So things like your bone health you have to really 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.200 watch that because that's when you start to lose bone 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.200 you do the bone density. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.320 Things like your heart health. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.159 So estrogen has a protective factor with the heart, So 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.840 you start stop having that estrogen and your risk of 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.480 cardiovascular issues comes up. So I think menopause is a 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.439 great time to go and talk to your doctor about 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.840 your health. Check right now is in your midlife and 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:45.720 then what do you need to do to make sure 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.040 you keep healthy in that post menopause will phase as well. 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.840 I touch you with my doctor quite regularly, but certainly, 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:52.880 and he always puts me up on the block. It's 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.560 like a twenty thousand K service every time. But blood 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.959