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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now.

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Speaker 2: Teenage girls don't necessarily have the maturity to manage their

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Speaker 2: relationships online, especially in a big group, especially when the

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Speaker 2: conversation has been going for hours, and especially when it's

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Speaker 2: late at night.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doc Justin Colson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about raising Happy Families. I'm here with my wife

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Speaker 2: and co hosts A Mom to our six kids, missus

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Speaker 2: Happy Families, Kylie. Tonight, it's a big night for the

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Speaker 2: beginning of twenty twenty one. It's our first Q and

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Speaker 2: A for all of our premium members in a Happy

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Speaker 2: Families membership. If you're a Happy Family's member, jump on

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Speaker 2: board tonight we're going to be So it's eight pm

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Speaker 2: New South Wales and Victoria at ACT and seven pm Queensland.

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Speaker 2: Answering your questions about how to make your family happier

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Speaker 2: and Honeybun you want to talk about. One that came

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Speaker 2: through from a premium member who's having a bit of

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Speaker 2: a time is a bit of a taster for what

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Speaker 2: we're going to be doing tonight.

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Speaker 3: She said, my daughter is in an escalating situation. She's

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Speaker 3: was a member of a snapchat group of about nine girls. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: she got into a situation of being ganged up on

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Speaker 3: by the group over a period of several hours into

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Speaker 3: the night. This culminated in her being pushed to her

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Speaker 3: limit and she said something she deeply regrets. She apologized,

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Speaker 3: tried to make amends, but the next day members of

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Speaker 3: the group demanded repeatedly again over a number of hours,

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Speaker 3: that she leads the group. She eventually did, But we're

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Speaker 3: going to fast forward two weeks now and the girls

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Speaker 3: are now messaging her anonymously through a shared account, telling

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Speaker 3: her that she won't have any friends when she goes

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Speaker 3: back to school and no one.

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Speaker 2: Will ever love her. Ouch. That's awful, And as.

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Speaker 3: A mum, my emotions are starting to rise. I'm feeling

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Speaker 3: like the fourteen year old girl right now.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost like you're seeing this happen to your daughter,

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Speaker 2: and you're remembering what it was like when you were

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Speaker 2: a fourteen year old and worried about rejection and ostracism,

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Speaker 2: not fitting in.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: My emotions are so caught up in my own experience

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Speaker 3: is that right now, I'm not in a space where

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Speaker 3: I can actually be of use to my daughter.

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Speaker 2: And you didn't send this email, did you? I did it.

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Speaker 3: My heart is racing, my head is thumping, and I

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Speaker 3: am I'm feeling really, really emotionally flooded right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you're going to help your daughter, you foughteen

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Speaker 2: year old daughter or son or whoever it is, that's

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Speaker 2: being cyberbull. The first thing you've got to do is

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Speaker 2: actually be able to look after yourself, right So what

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Speaker 2: do I do? Tell me?

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Speaker 3: What do I do right now so that I can

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Speaker 3: actually help my daughter? Because my heart is bursting to

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Speaker 3: be helpful to my daughter, but I am so emotionally

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Speaker 3: invested in my own stuff right now.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've heard me say this a number of times.

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Speaker 2: When your emotions are high, your intelligence is low. Right now.

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Speaker 2: It's not that your intelligence isn't there, it's just that

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Speaker 2: your brain doesn't access the thinking stuff because there's so

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Speaker 2: much emotion happening. There's a lot of neuroscience. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to go into that. I don't have time with

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Speaker 2: so much to talk about with this painful email that's

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Speaker 2: come through from this mum. But it's really important that

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Speaker 2: we get ourselves under control so that we can help others.

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Speaker 2: We cannot, We just cannot step into this situation because

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're catching her emotion anyway, right. Emotions are contagious.

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Speaker 2: But if you step into the situation with fear and

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Speaker 2: anxiety and worry and stress and anger, your daughter will

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Speaker 2: catch that as well. And so, so what do I do?

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Speaker 2: Tell me so that you can stay calm? What do

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Speaker 2: I do? A couple of months ago, we had a

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Speaker 2: conversation with Ethan Cross from the University of Michigan. I

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Speaker 2: remember he talked about this thing called psychological or self distancing,

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Speaker 2: and this is I think one of the most powerful

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Speaker 2: strategies that we can rely on to keep ourselves calm

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Speaker 2: and in check so that we can be better parents,

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Speaker 2: so that we can be better people. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of different things that we could talk about. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to pick on just three of them really quickly,

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Speaker 2: and in the interest of time. I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: them briefly because I really want to solve this mum's

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Speaker 2: problem as much as we can. Okay, So, the first

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Speaker 2: thing that you can do with self distancing or psychological

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Speaker 2: distancing is try to I mean, what you're really trying

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Speaker 2: to do is step out of the situation. You try

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Speaker 2: to put some distance between you and what's going on.

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Speaker 3: So I'm like, whether I'm the daughter or I'm the mum,

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Speaker 3: and I am completely in golfed with.

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Speaker 2: Emotion, which you would be. I mean, you think about

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Speaker 2: what's going on both in the moment and even two

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Speaker 2: weeks down the track as it's escalated and gotten so

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Speaker 2: much worse.

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Speaker 3: How do I, without someone else's help, how do I,

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Speaker 3: as an individual step outside of that? Because I am

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Speaker 3: just emotionally flooded.

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Speaker 2: Here's the first thing that I would say, think of

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Speaker 2: somebody that you know who deals with stress really really

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Speaker 2: well and deals with these interpersonal dilemmas really well. So

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Speaker 2: if you can think of anybody who's just a great

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Speaker 2: example of staying cool and calm and composed and level

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Speaker 2: and balanced when everything's going crazy around them.

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Speaker 3: Is there such a person?

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Speaker 2: Try and be that person. So for me, you've heard

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Speaker 2: me talk about I mean, you know my friend and

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Speaker 2: mental Wally Goddard very very well, and he's been a

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Speaker 2: mentor to me for the last two decades, and he's

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Speaker 2: always so calm. He is maybe I need to channel him.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you do, but I channel my inner Wally.

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Speaker 3: I've heard you say that so many times over the

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Speaker 3: years and it's never really resonated with me. But as

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Speaker 3: as we're chatting about it right now, I can really

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Speaker 3: see how that would be of benefit.

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Speaker 2: And you've seen the emails. People email me regularly and

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Speaker 2: say I just channel my inner doctor Justin Coulson and

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Speaker 2: I'm a better parent. Then they're not actually becoming me

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Speaker 2: and I'm not becoming Wally. But when we try to act,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is what actors do on stage. When

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Speaker 2: you step into a different persona, you behave differently. So

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Speaker 2: think about somebody who keeps their cool step into that

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Speaker 2: persona and you will automatically become more relaxed.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me three?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the first one. The second one, imagine

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Speaker 2: that you've got an audience, you know, like when you're

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Speaker 2: at the shops and the kids are having an absolute

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Speaker 2: lose the plot moment. You treat them differently in the

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Speaker 2: shops than the way you treat them in the living room.

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Speaker 2: Because there's an audience, people are judging you. You're aware

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Speaker 2: of it, and that creates a sense of psychological distance.

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Speaker 2: It helps you to be on your best behavior. If

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Speaker 2: you're in your living room and your daughter is sobbing

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Speaker 2: because her friends are saying these horrible things, imagine that

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Speaker 2: there's an audience. Imagine that somebody's watching you, and you're

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Speaker 2: going to respond differently. So that creates psychological distance as well.

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Speaker 2: My favorite one mental time travel.

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Speaker 3: It's just because you want to be a superhero.

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Speaker 2: We call it. We call it temporal distancing. And basically

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Speaker 2: what you do is you imagine ten years from now,

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Speaker 2: looking back, as you're talking about that incident with your

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Speaker 2: son or daughter, what will their memories of this moment be.

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Speaker 2: How will they remember you having handled it.

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Speaker 3: It's back to the future, that's why.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's it. But you think about it.

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Speaker 2: If you can imagine that, then you know that you

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Speaker 2: want them to say, oh, you were so thoughtful, and

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Speaker 2: you were so generous, and you were so charitable, and

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Speaker 2: you were so compassionate. All of these things come to

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Speaker 2: mind straight away, and you become a better parent. As

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Speaker 2: you mentally time travel, you know what you want to

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Speaker 2: be remembered for, and so you can actually be that. Now.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so my heart rates lowered, hopefully my palms aren't

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Speaker 3: as sweet as they were. I've wiped them and I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling a little bit more grounded. So maybe after the

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Speaker 3: break we can talk about how we now best help

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Speaker 3: our daughter.

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Speaker 2: Let's do that.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Famili's podcast.

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Speaker 2: For a happier family.

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Speaker 3: Try a Happy Families membership, because a happy family doesn't

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Speaker 3: just happen.

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Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, and we have

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Speaker 3: been talking about cyber bullying. We've got our own emotions

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Speaker 3: in check now and we really want to be able

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Speaker 3: to help our children. What is the best advice that

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Speaker 3: you can give parents who are dealing with these really

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Speaker 3: really challenging situations with their kids.

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Speaker 2: There's a handful of things that we need to talk

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Speaker 2: about from this email that came through. The first is

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about kids, nine kids in a snapchat

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Speaker 2: group well into the night, several hours into the So chances.

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Speaker 3: Are if these these nine girls were actually face to face,

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Speaker 3: this would be a very different.

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Speaker 2: It would have to be situated almost certainly. Yep. So

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Speaker 2: you know, social media has some pluses and it has

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Speaker 2: some negatives. But when it comes to teenage girls and

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Speaker 2: social media, there are a lot of negatives. We know

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Speaker 2: from research the girls much more relational, they're more relationally aggressive,

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Speaker 2: they're more likely to ruminate. This all sounds so stereotypical,

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Speaker 2: and yet the research bears it out. Teenage girls don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily have the maturity to manage their relationships online, especially

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Speaker 2: in a big group, especially when the conversation has been

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Speaker 2: going for hours, and especially when it's late at night,

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Speaker 2: when there willpower is lower, and they're just not dealing

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Speaker 2: with things quite so well. And so, as you said

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Speaker 2: in the email, this fourteen year old girl's been pushed

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Speaker 2: to her limit. She said something she regrets, she's tried

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Speaker 2: to make up for it, and now it's all gone

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Speaker 2: wrong because not only has she left the group, but

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Speaker 2: the girls that can smell the blood in the water.

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Speaker 2: And not all girls are like this, And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that there's a bunch of those nine girls who feel

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Speaker 2: really awful about what's going on, but enough of them

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Speaker 2: are pushing this forward that the other girls know if

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Speaker 2: they now step in and try to stand up for

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Speaker 2: their friend, they're going to be on the outer as well,

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Speaker 2: and they know that that's poison. That's terrible. Now this

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Speaker 2: has all happened over the summer break, school's about to

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Speaker 2: go back. There's all sorts of concerns around this, and

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Speaker 2: so I think that there's a few things that we

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Speaker 2: need to consider. The first thing that I would say

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Speaker 2: is that if there's anything particularly destructive, toxic, or inappropriate,

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Speaker 2: you want to get some evidence of it, so take

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Speaker 2: some screenshots. Next thing I would do is I'd just

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Speaker 2: block the account that the messages are coming from, and

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Speaker 2: if they keep on coming from other accounts, just keep

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Speaker 2: blocking the accounts. If it keeps happening, contact the E

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Speaker 2: Safety Commissioner that website from. The E Safety Commissioner is

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Speaker 2: actually there to prevent this kind of thing happening. It's illegal,

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Speaker 2: it's not allowed to happen, and at worst, the police

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Speaker 2: can actually get involved. Obviously we hope it won't get

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Speaker 2: to that. But if you've got a child who's genuinely

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Speaker 2: being victimized and attacked and bullied like this online, they

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Speaker 2: need someone to advocate for them and protect them. Now

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Speaker 2: that's going a long way, very very fast, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: that's the only thing that will work.

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Speaker 3: So do I get the school involved, do I get

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Speaker 3: other parents involved?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: Are those steps going to be helpful in this situation?

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Speaker 2: The answers to those two questions are it depends. Let's

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Speaker 2: start with the school and then we'll go to the

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Speaker 2: other parents. When you get the school involved. I've seen

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Speaker 2: it go both ways, and I know that what I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say is really provocative and it's going to

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Speaker 2: upset some people, and I'm really hesitant to say it.

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Speaker 2: But getting the school involved, more often than not, actually

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Speaker 2: doesn't work well unless the school has exceptional counselors and

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Speaker 2: a pastoral program that is just outstanding. Too many schools

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Speaker 2: will use this as an approach to do restorative circles

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Speaker 2: or you know, do some sort of punitive we've got

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Speaker 2: to stop this bullying and we're going to stamp it

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Speaker 2: out in zero tolerance, And all it does is pushes

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Speaker 2: the unwanted behavior underground. The fourteen year old girl in

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Speaker 2: this situation looks like she's a snitch and everybody hates

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Speaker 2: her and talks about her. It's just that they do

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Speaker 2: it in more sneaky ways. It doesn't usually end up

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Speaker 2: going very well. It can work out okay, but it

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Speaker 2: takes a really really skillful counselor or head of year

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Speaker 2: or head of house or whatever it is, to walk

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Speaker 2: through that and find conciliation, find a way forward in

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Speaker 2: terms of talking to other parents. Again the as it

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Speaker 2: could be yes or no. If the kids have been

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Speaker 2: friends for years, if you know the parents, then maybe

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Speaker 2: it's worth reaching out. If it's a group of people

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Speaker 2: that you don't know and you've got no idea what's

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Speaker 2: going on, probably not going to work. So well. You

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Speaker 2: just never know. I mean, we had an incident many

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Speaker 2: years ago where I reached out to a parent a

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Speaker 2: boy had sent explicit content or made explicit requests. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I off one of our daughters, who fortunately just came

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Speaker 2: straight to us and said, this is what's happened. And

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Speaker 2: so I contacted the parents and I said, I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure of all of the background, but we've known each

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Speaker 2: other for years. I just thought I should let you

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Speaker 2: know we're really concerned because here's what's happened. And then

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Speaker 2: the requests from me was how can I help you

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Speaker 2: or what can we do to help the kids. It

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Speaker 2: should never be you need to fix up your child

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Speaker 2: and stop them doing this. It should always be I

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Speaker 2: really want to support our kids, They've always had such

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Speaker 2: a great relationship. How can we help here? And that

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Speaker 2: needs to be the approach.

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Speaker 3: What happens Like in a perfect world, this is all

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Speaker 3: going to sort itself out. The girls are going to

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Speaker 3: go back to school and they're going to realize that

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Speaker 3: they've just been you know, absolutely nasty, and everyone's going

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Speaker 3: to be hunky dory again. The reality is probably not.

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Speaker 2: That not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: Probably not going to happen like that, And there is

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Speaker 3: a chance that it will actually get worse once they're

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Speaker 3: in each other's spaces, because she's going to feel isolated, ostracized,

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Speaker 3: left out and alone. So if things don't get better,

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Speaker 3: or if they escalate, what is the best thing I

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Speaker 3: can do?

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Speaker 2: Then?

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Speaker 3: As a parent, I.

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Speaker 2: Think that the number one thing that we want to

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Speaker 2: do is actually leave it up to our daughter and

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Speaker 2: empower her. The answers are inside her. She might need

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Speaker 2: some guidance, she might need some gentle support. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you say, what do you think you should do?

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Speaker 2: And she says, I think that we should. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've got those leftover fireworks in the garage from twenty

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Speaker 2: years ago or thirty years ago, before they were outlawed.

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Speaker 2: Actually it was longer than that, so they probably you know,

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Speaker 2: and she says, let's go and blow up the letter

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Speaker 2: box so we know where they live. Then we're going

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Speaker 2: to direct her away from that. But usually our kids

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Speaker 2: there either say I'm really stuck, or they might say

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Speaker 2: I need to find some new friends, or maybe I

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Speaker 2: can try to rescue two of those relationships. Because I

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Speaker 2: know that not all of them are saying this. I

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Speaker 2: know that a couple of them have sent me messages

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Speaker 2: of support. Even though they're not doing it publicly, they're

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Speaker 2: doing it privately, And so your children have got answers

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Speaker 2: inside themselves. What we need to do is, with lots

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Speaker 2: and lots of empathies, say something along the lines of

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Speaker 2: this is really hard, and you know and I know

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Speaker 2: that approaching this in a confrontational manner is not going

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Speaker 2: to make things any better, But what do you think

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Speaker 2: you could do? And how can I support you? And

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Speaker 2: bringing that approach to it and then gently guiding them

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Speaker 2: as they come up with answers. They respond so much

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Speaker 2: better when we give them that autonomy, when they have

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Speaker 2: that opportunity to make a decision for themselves about who

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Speaker 2: they're going to invite into their lives. Who they're going

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Speaker 2: to sit by, what friends they'll reach out to, whether

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Speaker 2: they need to start a new school. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: are so many options if we let them just come

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Speaker 2: up with ideas and let them sit and work through

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Speaker 2: it with our gentle support.

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Speaker 3: Well, I hope this has been really helpful for this mum.

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Speaker 3: It's a conversation that I think needs to be had

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Speaker 3: and I've learnt some stuff today in how to manage

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Speaker 3: my own emotion so that my intelligence doesn't leave the

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Speaker 3: room and I can be more supportive of my children.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really grateful for that.

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Speaker 2: Q and A is tonight for Premium members. You can

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Speaker 2: check out the zoom link and please join us as

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Speaker 2: we answer a whole lot more of the challenging questions

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Speaker 2: that you're facing to make your family happier. And we

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Speaker 2: really hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you did enjoy

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Speaker 2: the podcast, please visit Apple Podcasts, leave a rating and

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Speaker 2: review so that the algorithms can push our podcast up

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Speaker 2: the ratings and other people can find it so that

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Speaker 2: they can make their families happier as well. The Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media

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Speaker 2: and our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like

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Speaker 2: more information about making your family flourish, you can get

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Speaker 2: all the information about our membership and monthly support from

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Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au