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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, when we understand our children's development better, our attitude

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Speaker 2: goes from I need to stop this or I need

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Speaker 2: to fix this, and our attitude becomes I need to

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Speaker 2: help my child who's having a hard time.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Raising a family can be challenging, especially when that family

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Speaker 2: is young. I had a conversation in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks with an ABC radio presenter. I won't mention

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Speaker 2: that presenter's name, but that presenter he or she was

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Speaker 2: getting a little bit frustrated because at a recent barbecue,

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Speaker 2: a relative was talking to a toddler and.

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Speaker 3: Saying, do you think it's time to go now? Would

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Speaker 3: you like to go?

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Speaker 2: And this percenter just felt like the toddler was ruling

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Speaker 2: the roost, like the title was in charge, and when

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Speaker 2: the parents said no, no, no, no, no, I think we

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Speaker 2: need to go now, toddle lost the plot. Presenters like,

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Speaker 2: come on, what is going on with kids? How are

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Speaker 2: we letting this happen. We're cotton wooling them, We're spoon

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Speaker 2: feeding them, we're bubble wrapping them.

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Speaker 3: My name's doctor Justin Coulson.

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Speaker 2: I'm the founder of happy Families dot com, dot you,

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Speaker 2: and the author of six books about how to raise

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Speaker 2: happy families. I'm here with Kylie mum to our six kids. Kylie,

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Speaker 2: are the kids in charge? Is that what's happening? Have

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Speaker 2: parents become too soft, too willing to let kids get

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Speaker 2: away with everything?

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Speaker 4: Well, having had six of our own children, I can

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Speaker 4: attest to the fact that we have had our fair

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Speaker 4: share of tantrums. Yeah, and I don't think it's limited

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Speaker 4: to toddlers either.

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Speaker 2: No, will you and I are some of the major

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Speaker 2: contributors to those tantrums and to that tally. How many

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Speaker 2: tantrums have we had? But the kids, for sure a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of them. You had a big one the

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Speaker 2: other day with our seven year old.

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Speaker 5: I sure did.

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Speaker 4: I took her along to an activity at our church

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Speaker 4: and she was so excited to go, and we got there,

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Speaker 4: and as soon as we got there, she realized that

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Speaker 4: she didn't actually know anybody in the room, and so

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Speaker 4: she kind of said she didn't want to go, and

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Speaker 4: she was really shy, and I said.

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Speaker 5: It's okay, I'll stay with you, and so I kind

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Speaker 5: of walked in and sat down.

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Speaker 4: Well, she wouldn't follow me in, and before long she

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Speaker 4: kind of came in and she was tugging at me

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Speaker 4: and making a really big scene that she wanted us

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Speaker 4: to go. So I left with her and we walked outside,

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Speaker 4: and I tried to sit down with her and kind

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Speaker 4: of just talk her through it, but she wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: anything of it, and before long I was in the

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Speaker 4: hallway and she was screaming at the top of her

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Speaker 4: lungs that she wanted to go. She just wanted to go,

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Speaker 4: and so I said to her that I was really

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Speaker 4: happy for us to go, but I just needed her

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Speaker 4: to calm down so that we could talk things through

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Speaker 4: before I left. And obviously that didn't work. She kept going,

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Speaker 4: and I had numerous mums coming into the space trying

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Speaker 4: to make sure she wasn't being hurt talk you know,

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Speaker 4: giving me the look, and finally realized that I had

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Speaker 4: everything under control, and you know, carried on with their way.

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Speaker 4: But after about five minutes, I realized that her commotion

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Speaker 4: and was causing such distress to everybody else that nobody

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Speaker 4: was able to enjoy the activity, and so I really

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Speaker 4: needed to remove her from the place where we were at,

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Speaker 4: and so I said to her, Okay, we.

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Speaker 5: Can go home.

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Speaker 4: So I went to take her hand and guide her

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Speaker 4: out to the car, and all of a sudden, the

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Speaker 4: tantrum changed from I don't want to be here till

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Speaker 4: I don't want to go.

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Speaker 5: So we spent another five minutes with her screaming at.

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Speaker 4: The top of her lungs that she didn't want to go,

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Speaker 4: and finally I actually had to physically pick her up

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Speaker 4: and carry her to the car, and we sat in

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Speaker 4: the car while she continued to scream at the top

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Speaker 4: of her lungs that she didn't want to go, and

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Speaker 4: I tried to explain very calmly that we didn't have

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Speaker 4: to go, but until she calmed down, I couldn't let

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Speaker 4: her go in and interrupt what.

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Speaker 5: Was happening for everybody else. Well, it did not go.

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Speaker 4: Down well at all, and she continued to scream and

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Speaker 4: kick the car and she was really really falling to pieces.

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Speaker 4: So I turned the car on and I started to

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Speaker 4: drive down the street, and she lost it at that point,

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Speaker 4: and I was really at my wits end at that stage,

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Speaker 4: and I literally stopped the car and I turned around

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Speaker 4: and I said, what is going on. I don't understand

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Speaker 4: what's going on, and she looked at me and with

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Speaker 4: tearstone face, she said, I.

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Speaker 5: Don't know, and that was the breakthrough.

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Speaker 4: She had no idea what she was feeling in that moment,

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Speaker 4: and so I was able to sit there calmly after

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Speaker 4: I was ready to fall to pieces and said, can

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Speaker 4: we have a cuddle, And she came and cuddled me,

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Speaker 4: and I said, right now, you're feeling a bit scared

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Speaker 4: because you don't know anyone.

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Speaker 5: And I was able to label.

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Speaker 4: It for her and she was able to go, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I am, I'm really scared, and I don't want you

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Speaker 4: to leave, and so we were able to talk through it,

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Speaker 4: and finally, within about five minutes of having that conversation,

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Speaker 4: we walked calmly in and by the end of the

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Speaker 4: activity she told me she'd had the best day.

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Speaker 3: Ever and I don't want to go. I want to stay.

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Speaker 3: So a couple of comments on this.

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Speaker 2: The first one, Kylie is I've got a couple of

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Speaker 2: pairenting books on my shelf that I've written that might be.

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Speaker 3: Helpful for you.

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Speaker 5: I think I might need them.

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Speaker 2: A second thing, I'm sure that there's a whole lot

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Speaker 2: of parents who are listening going, oh, my goodness, it

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Speaker 2: even happens to the happy families people.

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Speaker 3: Because it knows yeah yeah, and we're supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: Talking about toddlers, but you've shared an example of a

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Speaker 2: seven year old going through it. Because it happens at

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Speaker 2: all ages and all stages, and there are a.

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Speaker 3: Handful of reasons for it.

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Speaker 2: I really think that the lesson that comes out of

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Speaker 2: your story best of all, though, is what you did

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Speaker 2: once you pulled it together, as you stepped out of

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Speaker 2: trying to fix it or trying to make her calm down.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you and I we've talked about this so

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Speaker 2: many times. The last thing you say to a cranky

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Speaker 2: child is would you just calm down?

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Speaker 3: Not going to work? But when you.

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Speaker 2: Sat in the car with her and said you're having

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Speaker 2: the worst time ever. You're having such a horrible day.

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Speaker 2: Once you started to label what she was experiencing, you

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Speaker 2: got a really different result, and that's when she started

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Speaker 2: to feel understood. That's when you managed to have the breakthrough.

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Speaker 2: That's when she also realized that she didn't know why

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Speaker 2: she was so upset.

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Speaker 3: She was just upset.

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Speaker 2: Why this stuff happens is really important and as I

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Speaker 2: spoke to this radio presenter, the conversation was essentially, when

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Speaker 2: we understand our children's development better, our attitude goes from

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Speaker 2: I need to stop this or I need to fix this,

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Speaker 2: and our attitude becomes I need to help my child

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Speaker 2: who's having a hard time. Because our kids don't actually

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Speaker 2: choose to be like this, this is kind of what

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Speaker 2: happens to them because they haven't yet learned how to regulate.

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Speaker 2: In fact, there are a couple of real reasons that

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Speaker 2: they have these big tantrums. The first is that they

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Speaker 2: just don't know how to control their emotions at all,

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Speaker 2: and they learn this bit by bit. It's not until

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Speaker 2: they're about eight or nine that they start to get

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Speaker 2: a really good handle on controlling their emotions. That's hard

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Speaker 2: to remember when you're dealing with a seven year old

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Speaker 2: who seems like they've got it together most of the time,

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Speaker 2: and then they lose it like you were describing, and

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Speaker 2: normally they'll lose it because they're hungry or they're angry,

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Speaker 2: or they're lonely, or they're tired, or they're stressed. The

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Speaker 2: second thing that happens is once you lose control of

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Speaker 2: your emotions, your behaviors go out the window as well,

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Speaker 2: and that's obviously what you're experiencing, Kylie.

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Speaker 3: And this again is developmentally appropriate.

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Speaker 2: Our kids on a continuum start to learn to regulate

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Speaker 2: their behaviors from a round about two or three, but

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Speaker 2: they don't really get good at it until they're I

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Speaker 2: don't know, twenty eight.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Kylie, how are you going with the no

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Speaker 3: chocolate thing?

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Speaker 5: How's it putting that up?

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Speaker 2: How's the behavior regulation going around chocolate? Or for so

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Speaker 2: many of us turning off Netflix and go to bed

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Speaker 2: on time? This is behavior regulation one oh one. And

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Speaker 2: we get cranky at the kids for not regulating their

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Speaker 2: behaviors that come out of big emotions, and yet.

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Speaker 3: We as adults struggle with it as well.

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Speaker 2: The next thing is she couldn't tell you what was

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Speaker 2: going wrong because her brain had gone what some some

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Speaker 2: psychologists call full limbic, and that basically means the thinking

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Speaker 2: part of the brain has switched off.

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Speaker 3: It's only the feeling.

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Speaker 2: Part, the mid brain that's full of blood and full

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Speaker 2: of hormones and neurotransmitters going bananas. And that's why she's

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Speaker 2: like that, and she can't find the words. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: know what to say, so you've got all that's a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff going on, and this is why they

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Speaker 2: have these big tantrums.

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Speaker 3: Now, knowing all.

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Speaker 2: Of that doesn't mean that you can now stop the tantrum,

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Speaker 2: but it helps to change your mindset and see that

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Speaker 2: they just aren't quite there. After the break, Kylie, let's

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Speaker 2: talk about what we can do, why what you did

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Speaker 2: ultimately did work, and how we can help our kids

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Speaker 2: to have them less and to have less distress while

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Speaker 2: the tantrums are occurring.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts

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Speaker 6: of Disciplined as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy

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Speaker 6: families dot com, dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 5: It's the Happy Families Podcast, The podcast for the time

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Speaker 5: poor parent who just wants answers now and toddler tantrums.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so, Kylie, you've been doing a bit of research. Now,

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Speaker 3: I've done.

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Speaker 2: I've done webinars and written books about all this sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff, But as a mum who's gone through it,

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Speaker 2: not so much with the toddle, but with a seven

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Speaker 2: year old who sometimes acts like one. You did a

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Speaker 2: little bit of fossicking around. You've actually done some homework

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Speaker 2: for this podcast, so I'm curious what did you find

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Speaker 2: that can help us to know what we can do

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Speaker 2: when our little ones are having some big feelings.

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Speaker 4: I guess one of the very first things we need

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Speaker 4: to consider when our children are having a meltdown is

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Speaker 4: just making sure that everyone is safe. Sometimes our children's

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Speaker 4: tantrums are verbal. Sometimes they're very physical, and our kids,

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Speaker 4: you know, start lashing out and kicking and screaming, and

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Speaker 4: so we just need to make sure that they're safe

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Speaker 4: and that the people around them are safe. And sometimes

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Speaker 4: that will mean that in the middle of a tantrum

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Speaker 4: we might just have to move them, like I did

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Speaker 4: with Emily, to take her to a place that was

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Speaker 4: a little bit more appropriate for her to scream at

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Speaker 4: the top of her lungs. But I think that it's

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Speaker 4: really important as much as we can that we stay calm.

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Speaker 4: And as I shared in my experience, the longer it went,

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Speaker 4: the more heightened my emotions became. Especially when you're in public,

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Speaker 4: it's a lot harder to kind of keep it all

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Speaker 4: in check because you're concerned about what other people are

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Speaker 4: thinking and trying to kind of navigate that whole space

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Speaker 4: in a very public setting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So there's a couple of things that I want to

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Speaker 2: jump in on here, Kylie. As you talk about that

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Speaker 2: you found a good website obviously, or you read a

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Speaker 2: good book to give you some of that some of

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Speaker 2: those ideas. But let's remember high emotions, low intelligence. So

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Speaker 2: our children become emotional, which means that they stop thinking clearly.

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Speaker 2: Emotions are contagious. And what happens with us as parents

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Speaker 2: as we say calm down, calm down, Calm down, calm down,

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Speaker 2: and we can feel ourselves building and building and building.

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Speaker 2: We're catching the energy of their emotion. We're catching the

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Speaker 2: horribleness of it as well. We are uncomfortable with the

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Speaker 2: fact that they are uncomfortable or uncomfortable that we're being judged.

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Speaker 2: And finally we get to a point where we're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to snap, and then we do. We snap,

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Speaker 2: and next thing you know, we're acting like a toddler ourselves.

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Speaker 3: We're getting really upset.

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Speaker 2: And even in your story with our Emily, you indicated

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Speaker 2: a couple of things where you kind of just didn't

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Speaker 2: behave at your very best either, probably because of the

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Speaker 2: pressure in the fact that you've got a child doing that.

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Speaker 2: Once that happens, your emotions have skyrocketed, which means that

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Speaker 2: you're in intelligence drops, which makes it so much harder

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Speaker 2: for you to get it together as well. So this

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Speaker 2: advice to just help them to not be in a

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Speaker 2: space where they're going to infect everybody else, including you,

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Speaker 2: with the chaos, and you can step into a nice

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Speaker 2: quiet spot and say, hey, I'm here, let's figure this

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Speaker 2: out together. That makes a huge difference of what else

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Speaker 2: did you come up with.

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Speaker 4: I'm acknowledging the emotion, Yeah, was obviously the catalyst for

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Speaker 4: everything coming down in Emily's situation. She had no idea

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Speaker 4: why she had this big emotion and that had literally

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Speaker 4: taken over. It was taking control of everything that she

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Speaker 4: was experiencing in that moment. And as soon as I

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Speaker 4: was able to label it for her, there was an

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Speaker 4: instant calm. She felt safe because she felt understood and

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Speaker 4: she felt like there was somebody there who was going

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Speaker 4: to take charge of the situation and keep her safe.

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Speaker 2: Kylie, Anger, and you've heard me say this so many times,

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Speaker 2: is a secondary emotion, it usually comes from something else,

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Speaker 2: often fear or feeling out of control. So if we

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Speaker 2: have a look at Emily's angry outburst, and this is

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Speaker 2: the same with all of our all of our kids,

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Speaker 2: when they get really angry, they're usually not angry so much.

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Speaker 3: As they're frightened or they're stressed.

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Speaker 2: She was frightened because she was in an environment that

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Speaker 2: was novel, It was new, it was unfamiliar. She didn't

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Speaker 2: know the people there. The fear exacerbated her emotions because

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Speaker 2: she didn't know how to deal with the emotion effectively.

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Speaker 2: She started to get angry, didn't respond well to your control,

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Speaker 2: and off she went. But the catalyst, as you said

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Speaker 2: in the whole story, was when you were able to

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Speaker 2: pull over on the side of the road. And remember,

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Speaker 2: I need to name it to tame it. And I

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Speaker 2: want to give anyone who's listening out just a helpful script.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know what else to say, all you

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Speaker 2: need to do is say, oh, my goodness, you're having

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Speaker 2: the heartest.

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Speaker 3: Sign right now, aren't you.

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Speaker 2: Just By saying that, you don't even have to get

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Speaker 2: the emotion exactly right. You don't have to say you're

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Speaker 2: really worried, you're really nervous, you're feeling really scared. To

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Speaker 2: say any of that sort of stuff, just say it's

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Speaker 2: really hard. You're having a tough day, aren't you. Just

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Speaker 2: by saying that, it helps your child see that you

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Speaker 2: can understand that they're struggling and therefore high emotions. Long intelligence,

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Speaker 2: it starts to bring their emotions down, which means that

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Speaker 2: they can start to actually talk to you. They're not

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Speaker 2: going to do it straight away. It's like this train

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Speaker 2: going through a tunnel. You've got to wait for the

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Speaker 2: train to come out the other side, and that's when

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Speaker 2: you can have the conversation. The emotion is like going

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Speaker 2: through that tunnel. It will subside. Don't try to fix it.

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Speaker 2: Just say it's really hard for you right now, you're

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Speaker 2: really upset, aren't you.

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Speaker 3: Let's have a hug.

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Speaker 2: We'll figure it out once we're all feeling better, and

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Speaker 2: usually within as you saw Kylie, within a minute or two.

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Speaker 2: If we can take that approach, that's the circuit breaker.

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Speaker 4: Generally, speaking with Emily, it really is just a hug.

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Speaker 4: She can be having the biggest meltdown, but as soon

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Speaker 4: as I reach for her, she will fall into me

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Speaker 4: and just soften so quickly. But on that particular day,

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Speaker 4: she didn't want me to touch her, she didn't want me

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Speaker 4: to be near It was really hard to remember compassion

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Speaker 4: as you were talking and sharing what you were sharing,

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Speaker 4: I just I wrote it on my pad in big

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Speaker 4: bold letters, compassion. When our children are having tantrums and

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Speaker 4: they're falling to pieces, so often we take.

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Speaker 3: It as a personal attack.

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Speaker 4: It's a personal attack at us, but it's actually not.

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Speaker 4: It's got nothing to do with us in that moment.

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Speaker 4: It's their emotional overwhelm with what's going on in their world,

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Speaker 4: and if we can find a place of compassion, they're

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Speaker 4: nine times out of ten this is going to all

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Speaker 4: blow over way quicker.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So they're in this podcast or a whole reason,

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Speaker 2: a whole list of reasons why our children are having

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Speaker 2: these big emotions, how we can help them to have

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Speaker 2: them less or experience less distress, and therefore how we

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Speaker 2: can cope. And it really is, as you said, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: it's about having that compassionate, helping approach. When I spoke

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Speaker 2: to that radio announcer last week, the main thing that

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Speaker 2: I emphasized was let's get past this agenda that we

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Speaker 2: have that kids shouldn't rule the roost, or that we

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Speaker 2: need to boss them around or make them do what

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Speaker 2: we want them to do. Let's instead tap into the

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Speaker 2: emotional world that they're experiencing, let them know that we

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Speaker 2: get it, and then work on solutions together. Even with

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Speaker 2: the little kids, even with toddlers. When we say hey, kiddo,

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Speaker 2: it's time to go and they start to lose the plot, we.

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Speaker 3: Say, oh, you just wish you could stay.

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Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be amazing if we could stay here all

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Speaker 2: night and have fun all day long? I wish we

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Speaker 2: could to come and give me a great big hug. Now,

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Speaker 2: let's go and say goodbye to Grandpa. Let's go say

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Speaker 2: good bye to grandma. And you walk around the room

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Speaker 2: and say, all right, how many more people to say

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Speaker 2: goodbye to? And then off we go. Give yourself the

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Speaker 2: time and the space and show the compassion. It makes

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Speaker 2: all the difference in the world. The Happy Families podcast

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Speaker 2: is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 2: We so much appreciate you being part of what we're

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Speaker 2: doing in the podcast. We hope that it's helping your

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Speaker 2: family to be happier if it is, can you please

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Speaker 2: jump onto Apple Podcasts and leave us a rating and review.

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Speaker 2: We're so grateful for the five hundred odds reviews that

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Speaker 2: have come through five stars with people saying what.

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Speaker 3: A differences made. We're grateful that we've been able to

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Speaker 3: make that difference.

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Speaker 2: Please let us know, and please let other people know

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Speaker 2: so that they can have the same thing happen in

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Speaker 2: their homes. A quick note before we fully wrap up

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Speaker 2: the Bringing Up Boys Summit.

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Speaker 3: It's just over a week away now.

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Speaker 2: If you've got kids boys between eight and eighteen and

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Speaker 2: you want to know how to navigate the challenges that

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Speaker 2: raising them from boys to men bring into our lives,

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Speaker 2: please visit Happyfamilies dot com dot au for all the info.