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Speaker 1: Jersey and Amanda jam Nation.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's one thing Australians are loving at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's anything crime related, crime podcast, crime series and shows

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Speaker 2: like Under Investigation. We're Australia's most baffling crimes are reopened.

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Speaker 2: The show returns tonight and is re examining an eerie,

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Speaker 2: out back mystery in Western Australia.

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Speaker 3: Three men enter, one man comes back.

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Speaker 2: Is that what's happened?

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Speaker 3: Pretty much? That's what That's what I've said for the promos.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's all we need to know. We don't need

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Speaker 2: to talk to Liz Hayes. Is that what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: I need to talk to Liz, because you know what

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Speaker 3: I love about watching you on this good morning by

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Speaker 3: the way, Liz, I like when you look over the

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Speaker 3: top of your glasses. I like when you look over

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Speaker 3: the top of you That's what I like right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And it's always that stern sort of Liz Hayes look

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Speaker 3: over the glasses and you know you're being serious.

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Speaker 1: Note three, three go out, one comes back. That's never

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Speaker 1: a good number.

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Speaker 2: No, So what's the circumstances around this story?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a it's a couple range. Jenny Kellers, who

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Speaker 1: desperately in love. Great a great couple. They go with

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Speaker 1: a friend, Graham Milne Gold prospecting out in the desert

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Speaker 1: in Wa and literally Ray and Jenny I'll never come back,

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Speaker 1: and Graham Mill does. Graham Mill is obviously a key

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Speaker 1: person to this investigation because he can at least give

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Speaker 1: us some details about what we hope to find out

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Speaker 1: what happened to Ray and Jenny Kellett. Ray's body was found.

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Speaker 1: He is dead and considered to be deared. Jenny Kellett's

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Speaker 1: never been found. So it is one of the the

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Speaker 1: outback of Australia always turns up something quite extraordinary.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole string of Australian noir at the moment

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Speaker 2: with books about mysteries in out back Australia. And you

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Speaker 2: can see why when in real life this stuff happens too.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no, no, what happens absolutely and I think

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Speaker 1: if you think back too, which is a totally different

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Speaker 1: scenario scenario of course to Linda Chamberlain, and you know,

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Speaker 1: a dingo takes a child. But then you've got Peter

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Speaker 1: Falconio who's never been found. He's a British tourist who

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Speaker 1: he and Jenny leaves his partner are attack out out

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the desert. So, I mean it

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Speaker 1: is one of those things. It's so alluring, the outback,

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Speaker 1: but yet for crime it's a perfect place.

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Speaker 3: So this dude that came back, what was his explanation.

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Speaker 1: Well, he actually gave evidence to a coronal inquiry. So

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Speaker 1: we look at what he's provided us in terms of information.

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Speaker 1: He says, they set out, he says, they have a

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Speaker 1: falling out. He says they have a dog. Ella. Now

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Speaker 1: this dog, by the way, is amazing. This is the

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Speaker 1: dog that tells everyone something's wrong. It goes to thirty

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Speaker 1: k's on its own, to the nearest township, and it's

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Speaker 1: from there that it's realized something terrible has happened. But

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Speaker 1: Graham Millne comes back, he certainly has a falling out

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Speaker 1: with him. He leaves of his own volition, and he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know what's happened to the miner that's that old.

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Speaker 3: Still, I don't know what happened there.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, one of the other cases you're going to look

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Speaker 2: at around the war table is the rise of domestic

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Speaker 2: terrorism in Australia and the tragedy last year in December

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Speaker 2: where two young police officers and a neighbor were killed

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Speaker 2: on a Queensland property.

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Speaker 1: I think what we're looking at here, it's one of

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Speaker 1: those moments in time. I feel it's like the Lint Cafe,

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Speaker 1: It's like Port Arthur. It's one of those moments where

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Speaker 1: you go, hang on, what's going on? Is this something

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Speaker 1: new for Australia? And I think it's about conspiracy theorists

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Speaker 1: prepare to take that extra step and be violent and

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Speaker 1: I just peel back as this we can just how

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Speaker 1: prevalent this is.

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Speaker 3: And it seems to be the rise of the sovereign citizens,

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Speaker 3: or the so sits or so set or the cookers

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Speaker 3: as they're called. But they're going right down into the

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Speaker 3: worm or the rabbit hole of these conspiracy theories, and

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Speaker 3: it's quite frightening really.

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Speaker 1: I think COVID had a lot to do with that.

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Speaker 1: I think COVID people alone, people isolated, and people looking

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Speaker 1: for answers when they can't seemingly find any, and Doctor

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Speaker 1: Google hags them into a world where they meet up

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Speaker 1: with each other really quickly, and then they're offered what

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Speaker 1: they call a buffet of other ideas and before you

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Speaker 1: know it, they're all joining each other's protests. They're at

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Speaker 1: each other's events. Even though they don't necessarily agree with

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Speaker 1: each other, they still turn up because they're like minded people.

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Speaker 1: It's intriguing.

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Speaker 3: It's all that silo information that's them.

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Speaker 2: As you say that this is now going to a

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Speaker 2: violent conclusion.

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Speaker 3: But I tried to reason with one one time on

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Speaker 3: this during the Trump era a few years ago, and

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Speaker 3: and he said, well, what would as if we listen

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Speaker 3: to you? You're in the media, And I said, mate,

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Speaker 3: I've been in the media for thirty two years. There's

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Speaker 3: no con there's nothing, there's nothing. I don't there's no

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Speaker 3: and you'd be the same though when you list there's

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Speaker 3: no lizard people giving us orders or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: There's nothing there. But people are always looking for some

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Speaker 3: sort of con that.

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Speaker 1: Look, you know, if there's one thing that stuck with

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Speaker 1: me during this episode is the psychology of what to do.

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Speaker 1: And one of the first things you're told not to

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Speaker 1: do is to try and argue yeah, because that just

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Speaker 1: entrenches the them enough, oh you're one of them, and

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Speaker 1: it really entrenches that inability to listen elsewhere it's like yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've been told you're going to try and you'll say that,

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Speaker 1: of course, you'll say that. It is about and the

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Speaker 1: worst thing we can do, apparently is isolate people, make

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Speaker 1: them isolated.

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Speaker 3: You know what we need is you to look over

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Speaker 3: the top of your glasses.

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Speaker 2: At them, and maybe you're drinking glasses as well.

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Speaker 3: Just look over the top of the glasses.

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Speaker 4: Take the good, really, really, Lizen, it's always great, really really,

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Speaker 4: it's great to talk you and The Investigation with Liz

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Speaker 4: Hayes returns tonight on Channel nine and nine.

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Speaker 3: Now, thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Look, thank you very much for the opportunity. I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: We did too, Thank you, Liz ser Liz