1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Now, we've been talking a lot again this week, well 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: it seems to be every week at the moment. We're 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: talking about our health system, but the issue around the 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: top ends maternity services both at Royal Darwin and Darwin 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: Private Hospital, just doesn't seem to be going away or 6 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: reaching an acceptable outcome for our local mums. Now joining 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: us on the line is doctor Alia Vermuri. She's one 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: of two private obstetricians in Darwin offering services to Darwin mums. 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Alia. 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners. 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time this morning. Now, Alia, 12 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: in some sad news, you've officially closed your doors to 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: your practice. As someone who grew up here and came 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: back to set up a business, how difficult of these 15 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: many months been since the closure was announced of the 16 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: private hospital maternity ward. 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: It's been considerably difficult, Katie, quite heartbreaking to be honest. 18 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I bet it has been, and not 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: just for you, but also for your patients. 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, there has been a considerable an overwhelming sadness in 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: the community for the women that I care for most. 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: Certainly, yes, tell me the whole saga would have well 23 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: would have handed an extra element of anxiety I'm guessing 24 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: for Northern Territory mums as well, and would have added 25 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: an emotional toll. I would guess for some of your. 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: Patients, absolutely, Katie. It came as quite a bit of 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: a surprise the closure of health Scope. Approximately two weeks earlier, 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: we had ourked health Scope if we were closing, and 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: sort of we were reassured that that wasn't the case 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: and that if that were to occur, we'd be given 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: sort of ample knowledge of it. And then sort of 32 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 2: two weeks later, much to our surprise, we were informed 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: about the closure. So we really didn't have a chance 34 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: to I suppose prepare our patients at that moment. Was 35 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: it was a very big shock. 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: How important is it from your perspective for women to 37 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: have a choice of private or public access? 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: Very important, Katie. And so it's a question I get 39 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: asked a lot about. You know, what we're dealing with 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: at the moment is a national maternity care crisis. Last 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 2: I checked, and I have been a bit self absorbed 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 2: with my own issues, but last I checked, I mean, 43 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: we had seventeen private maternity units closing around Australia and 44 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: it's happening at a very very accelerative and unprecedented rate, 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: to the point where I'm a bit worried that we're 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: actually ever going to have private obstetricians to the future. 47 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: So you know, the choices that we you and I 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: both had when we went through maternity care are not 49 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 2: going to be offered to our children and our children's children, 50 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: and I think that's a real travesty. Also when we 51 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 2: look national internationally at systems that don't really have a 52 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: significant private obstetric and in a private hospital sort of setting. 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: We look straight to the NHS in the UK and 54 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: they're currently dealing with something like sixty one billion pound 55 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: deficit to their public healthcare sector due to clinical negligence 56 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: cases that are happening through the public and it's primarily 57 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: related to an overloading of a demand onto the public 58 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 2: sector and infrastructure issues. So it's really really concerning. And 59 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: I would argue that Australia's really great maternity nationally are 60 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: really great maternity standards are driven by this hybrid model. 61 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: So the loss of this hybrid model is very very concerning. 62 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: And I mean the fact is some of the patients 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: and some of the mums that you would see, I 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: would imagine have got some complex health conditions, so they 65 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: could be IVF patients, or they really want, you know, 66 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: to be able to continue to see you. They want 67 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: to be able to have that continuity of care. 68 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very true, Katie. And it's not really a 69 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: system that's replicated through the public sector. It's a continuity 70 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: of care that's driven by an obstetrician. So you've got 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: a named doctor that follows you through your pregnancy up 72 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: to about eleven months, which is a bit odd because 73 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 2: pregnancy is are largely nine months. But I see women preconception, 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: those very complex women, and I try to optimize their 75 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: medical problems before they enter into pregnancy, and then I 76 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: follow them all the way through. And the beauty about 77 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: obstetrics in terms of its scope of practice is that 78 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: with in conjunction with the midwives of the private hospital, 79 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: I had the capacity to you know, do vaginal births, 80 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 2: complicated vaginal births, the varian section. So there was never 81 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: a sort of fragmentation in care. It was a true 82 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: what I call a true continuity of care across It's 83 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: also really important to understand the unique setup in Darwin 84 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: that I was really proud of. We had two hospitals 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: existing side by side delivering maternity care to the women 86 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: of Darwin and the surrounds for the last thirty years. 87 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: And because of this wonderful collaborative relationship with the public sector, 88 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: we always had the capacity to deliver women in the 89 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 2: public sector under a private obstetric bedcard. But there is 90 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: a difference between doing one or two versus doing all 91 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: of them, and I think that's when the stresses start 92 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 2: to arise, particularly for myself, you know. But the beauty 93 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: of being able to traverse across a corridor to a 94 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: public hospital meant that if my women went into labor 95 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: pre term, so the nursery at the health Scope was 96 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: traditionally thirty two weeks and above, but if women went 97 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: into pre term labor, I could follow them all the 98 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: way across and and help them deliver theirs. So it's 99 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 2: a beautiful what I called I like to call true continuity. 100 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: So that's the beauty of what Darwin had to offer, 101 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: and I will I will miss that it's not actually 102 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: necessarily replicated in all of the other capital cities, which 103 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: made me very very proud. 104 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: Well, especially as a territory girl. You know, like you're 105 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: home grown. We want to you know, like you want that, 106 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: you want to be proud of were you working and 107 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 1: what you're doing. 108 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: O Katie. There's a story to that. 109 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: You know. 110 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: When I I was a public school run to the 111 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 2: little girl, and I was given and I got given 112 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: a beautiful scholarship from the Northern Territory government back in 113 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: the day. And that scholarship allowed me to buy my 114 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: first deathoscopes and my first textbooks, and I you know, 115 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: rocked up to an Adelaide University and you know, and 116 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: I had the best stuff. So you know, I know 117 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: that sounds really dorky, but it would be a bit 118 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: like our sporting kids getting the best you know, cricket 119 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: bat and the best, you know, footy shoes. So I 120 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: felt very very special. And the beauty of it was 121 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: it was just it was given out a generosity as 122 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 2: much for my from my community, so you know, it 123 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: was never tied to an obligation to return. But I 124 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: never forgot. I never forgot that gift and that was 125 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 2: one of the drivers to me returning. But I didn't 126 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: want to just return without skills, Katie. So I traveled 127 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 2: and I've worked in many many different cities, and I 128 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: worked in New York City and all these lovely places 129 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: to learn the skills that I thought would be beneficial 130 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: to my community. 131 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: Yes, oh, Ahliah, that's a beautiful story. And you know, 132 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: like it makes me feel really proud to think that 133 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: you've done that, and you've worked all around the world 134 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: and you've come back here and are abled them to 135 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: help Northern Territory women. But then it makes me feel 136 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: quite sad that you know that you're in the situation 137 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: that you're in now through absolutely no fault of your own, 138 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,239 Speaker 1: purely because we've got this situation, you know, with health 139 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: scope and the maternity ward at the hospital, at the 140 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: private hospital closing. 141 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Look, it was very sad, and I suppose 142 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: I was a little bit upset about the reasons that 143 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,679 Speaker 2: were sort of quoted for the closure of the maternity board. 144 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 2: There was you know, I know that the health spoke 145 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: about a reduction in birth and they went from seven 146 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: hundred in two thousand and thirteen down to just shy 147 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: of three hundred. So the number is actually three hundred quoted. 148 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: There's lots of different numbers, but it's in fact just 149 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: shied three hundred. We were doing in twenty twenty four, 150 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: and it was sort of quoted that that was reflective 151 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: of a reduction in popularity for my model of care, 152 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: and in actual fact, in twenty thirteen we had impacts. 153 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: We had a population growth for three point four percent 154 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: that year. It was only stepping to that of perse 155 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 2: so the greater you know, Darwin region we grew very 156 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: quickly and as a consequence, so did our birth rates 157 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: and that was the reason for the seven hundred. But 158 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: all us long term territories know, we go through these 159 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: economics boom bust cycles and it's you know, interstate migration, 160 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: and we went back down to our very normally baseline 161 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: of three hundred, So it wasn't actually a decline in popularity, 162 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 2: more so a change in the population growth as are 163 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: and reflective in that number. But interestingly, Katie, look, we've 164 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: got a problem in terms of population growth in Australia. 165 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: We're only delivering one point to Australian babies per couple 166 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 2: now and we've got an aging population and so it's 167 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: a bit of an economic disaster and we really need 168 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 2: to be focusing on provisions of maternity care choices in 169 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 2: order to increase our growth rates. Yeah, but the closure then, 170 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 2: you know, it sparked an interest in me because I'm 171 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: not really into economics and hospital structures. That's wasn't really 172 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: what I was trained in, but I started reading a 173 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: little bit about it, and you know, our federal Health 174 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: Minister sort of highlighted some of some of the factors 175 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 2: facing our private hospitals, including health Scope, and they were 176 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: talking about right rising costs and stagnant funding from insurers. 177 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: And I do know that the private hospital was poorly 178 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: remunerated for its maternity care. And also we were coping 179 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 2: with the COVID pandemic Katie, and you know the bulk 180 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: of our elective surgeries happens in the private sector. During COVID, 181 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: we've sort of reduced our elective surgeries and so that 182 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: private hospitals didn't make as much of a profit. So 183 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: these are some of the systems issues that we're dealing 184 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: with at the moment as to why we're losing our 185 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: private hospitals everywhere. 186 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: Well, look, it's I just think you know, people want 187 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: choice and mums want choice and they deserve that choice. 188 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: And we are in a capital city of Australia and 189 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: you know the fact that women now are potentially going 190 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: to be going into state to have their babies. I 191 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: just think it's a real shame. Yeah. 192 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: Look, it was devastating for me to watch, Katie, because 193 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 2: I've lived in several different cities. I did have private 194 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: obstetricians that sort of have a similar kind of ethos 195 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: to the Sanity care as I do. And so what 196 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: I did was, you know, when women sort of expressed 197 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: this desire, there was interstate transfer of these women across 198 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 2: the border to obstetricians, the private obstetricians that were happy 199 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: to accept these women at thirty six weeks. We tried 200 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: some men lie the effect on their other children and 201 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 2: their families, et cetera. But it does lend itself to 202 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 2: a huge risk of the issues of recruitment and retention 203 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: of young professional families and territory. And I'm just witnessing 204 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 2: the change and the social milia and the social fabricas 205 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: are and the impact this is going to have in 206 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: terms of the long term community impact on business and 207 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 2: infrastructure and defense. So, you know, it's pretty significant. I 208 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 2: didn't realize that I was a little corkscrew in a 209 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 2: whole big chain of everything. 210 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: Oh, you are a very important corkscrew for a lot 211 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: of families. 212 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, it is interesting about options. You know, options 213 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 2: are really important, Katie. But options need to be very clear, Okay, 214 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: we need to understand what those options are. And there 215 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: has been a bit of a mal alignment in understanding, 216 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: and I think that's caused a lot of community confusion. 217 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 2: You see, we've got this concept that the Health Minister 218 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 2: brought out in conjunction with commercial interests of insurance companies, 219 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: and they label this thing private maternity care. Now, what 220 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: we're actually delivering currently is fundamentally different to what we 221 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: actually had, right. So that's why it's causing a little 222 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 2: bit of distress in the community, because in order to 223 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: consent to be meaningful for patients, we need to have 224 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 2: transparency about what those choices are. Accountability needs to be there, right, 225 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: and that's how public confidence is restored. So we need 226 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 2: to understand what are the actual limitations of the public 227 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: sector and delivering private maternity care options, right, And I 228 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: think these are questions that remain unanswered unfortunately. Well the issues, yes, 229 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: the issue that I had primarily were part of the 230 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: issue was related to the you know, the the luxury resort, 231 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: the luxury resorts stay for post natal women. You know, 232 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 2: the feedback I got was that it was aesthetically very beautiful, 233 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 2: that the food was lovely, and you know what, Katie, 234 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 2: I wouldn't expect anything less from the tourism and hospitality sector. 235 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: It's an incredible job, but it's lacking in medical and 236 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 2: mid with free substance. And unfortunately the Health Minister didn't 237 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 2: actually you know, I've never spoken to him face to face, 238 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: and unfortunately it caused an occupational risk for private obstetricians 239 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 2: to continue because it lacks the checks and balances of 240 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: a medi hotel which is available down South. 241 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, like the thing is, you would 242 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: think that that discussion will be happening with happening with 243 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: our private obstetricians if you're talking about that private care 244 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: or you know, having that care within that hotel setting 245 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: and accent, you know, and it's sort of that suggestion 246 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: that that that's all that women want is a luxury stay. 247 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: That's not the case. What women actually thought is the care. 248 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: That's absolutely correct, Katie. And you know what, I was 249 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: surprised because you know, you know, we don't have a 250 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: twenty four hour on site midwife there there's no mechanism 251 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: of transport other than depending on our poor Saint John's 252 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: ambulance service, which is already overrun. For these women to 253 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,479 Speaker 2: not enter into a direct private bed under a private obstetrician. 254 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: They're coming through an emergency department with their newborn whos 255 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: and the poor ed is going through a Code yellow 256 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 2: lass I heard. So what this then translates to Katie 257 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: is that there's a potential for delayed diagnosis of an issue, 258 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: and then there's an issue with transfer, and then ultimately 259 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm called as the insurance policy to manage that. And 260 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: yet I was never involved in the inception of the idea, 261 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: So I think there was major issues with that from 262 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: a medico legal perspective. But in addition, you know what 263 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: I found really amazing was when I was faced with 264 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: this look. I can't put it any other way. It 265 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: was a diabolical situation where there was a collapse. There 266 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: was a collapse of a hospital for the women, for 267 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: the private women of Darwin. 268 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: It was a collapse. 269 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 2: And you know, I watched the total fragmentation of my 270 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: model of care, and I just observed how many women 271 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 2: remained with me as a private obstetrician versus sort of 272 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: going to other models, and you know, ninety percent of 273 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: women remained with their private obstetrician. What that lent itself 274 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: to was an understanding of how important the medicine and 275 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: the midwif free was in what women actually wanted. 276 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: You know, all that we want as women, as families 277 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: having our babies is for ourselves and our babies to 278 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: be healthy and fundamentally, you know, that's what it comes 279 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: down to. Doesn't it to be able to deliver our 280 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: bubs with as limited complications as possible? 281 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: That's right. And what I realized through all of this, Katie, 282 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 2: is that public hospitals don't replace private hospitals, and private 283 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: hospitals don't replace public We need both, right, Midwives don't 284 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: replace obstetricians. Obstetricians don't replace midwives because we're different. We 285 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: need both. And you know, Katie, my left hand doesn't 286 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: replace my right, and I need both and to deliver 287 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: babies in whichever way they come. 288 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: Only. 289 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: What's next? 290 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, do you think that there is 291 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: any hope that one day, you know, things may go 292 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: back to the way that they were of the situation changes. 293 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: I'm not sure Katie. Look, I've been The reason why 294 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: I persisted so long after the transition was that I 295 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 2: had hoped that there would have been some movement, and 296 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: in the absence of any movement, and because of the 297 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: increasing risk of medico legal litigation, I had to eventually 298 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: say that it was untenable for me to practice. It 299 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 2: wasn't really a choice. It was the collapse of a 300 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: system that forced me to stop. And you know, I've 301 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: been waiting now for quite a while for things to change, 302 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 2: and unfortunately there has been no change. Yeah. I think 303 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: you know, another little secret is that I delivered babies, 304 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: you know, to families of every political affiliation you can imagine, Katie, 305 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: And there's nothing more biquitous than healthcare and how much 306 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 2: we love our children and want the best for them. 307 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 308 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: So I think it does need to be a bipartisan 309 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: approach to the management of this issue, and we need 310 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 2: state and territory government to speak with Commonwealth because so 311 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: there does need to be a huge sort of groundswell 312 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 2: for things to actually change, Katie. And I'm just not 313 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 2: at in a position at the moment for me to 314 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: predict the future in that. Yeah. 315 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: Well, look, we'll continue talking about this. I've no doubt 316 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: the women of the Northern Territory will want us to 317 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: doctor Alia Vermuri. It has been wonderful to speak to 318 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: you this morning. You are an incredible Territorian, you know. 319 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: Hearing more about your story, I think it's it is 320 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: a real loss for the people of the Northern Territory 321 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: that you're no longer going to be able to operate 322 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: as a private ob But look, I know you're an 323 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: incredible person and I've no doubt that you will continue 324 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: to do wonderful things. 325 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time, Katie. 326 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. I really appreciate it.