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Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud your

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Speaker 1: the Order Kerni Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before

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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I

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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land

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Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,

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Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming

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Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing

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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for

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Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.

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Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money the podcast

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Speaker 3: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. The stereotypical female schopperholic is

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Speaker 3: everywhere in pop culture, even in twenty twenty two. There's

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Speaker 3: the cult favorite Carrie Bradshaw from Sex in the City,

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Speaker 3: who bought so many pairs of four hundred dollars shoes

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Speaker 3: that she couldn't afford a home deposit and bragg to

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Speaker 3: have purchased a copy of Vogue over dinner. Then there's

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Speaker 3: Rebecca Blimwood, the compulsive buyer turned personal finance guru heroine

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Speaker 3: of Confessions of a Schoppoholic. Interestingly, this addiction doesn't discriminate

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Speaker 3: by gender, regardless of how many episodes of Sex and

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Speaker 3: the City you've binged. The media turms of blind eyes

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Speaker 3: the issue of male schopperholics even though men are about

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Speaker 3: as likely as women to be compulsive buyers, and by

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Speaker 3: doing so, it downplays the seriousness of the issue, which

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Speaker 3: is exactly what we are going to discuss today. My

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Speaker 3: name is Jessica Ricky, and joining me as always is

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Speaker 3: Victoria to Vine. This chat has come at a hopeful time,

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Speaker 3: given Christmas is less than three months away.

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Speaker 2: I look at you.

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Speaker 4: You are always so excited when Christmas is involved, but

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Speaker 4: I feel like this is very timely.

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Speaker 3: I would agree, and Christmas is cited as the hardest

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Speaker 3: period of the year for people struggling with oniomania. The

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Speaker 3: I've just used the definition I hadn't heard of before

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Speaker 3: doing the research for this episode.

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Speaker 4: And I'm impressed you've got it out.

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Speaker 3: Clearly, I'm doing the best that I can. Why do

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Speaker 3: you think that this is the case though.

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Speaker 4: Look, we've all used phrases just like shopoholic or saying

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Speaker 4: things like oh my gosh, I shopped until I dropped.

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Speaker 4: And most of us can admit to an impulse buy

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Speaker 4: or a big spending splurge. But spending addiction is actually

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Speaker 4: very serious. It's very understudied, and that's probably why you've

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Speaker 4: never heard the proper definition for it. And it's also

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Speaker 4: really underappreciated. At the end of the day, oniomania is

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Speaker 4: a shopping addiction, and it is characterized by an eagerness

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Speaker 4: to purchase unnecessary or quote superfluous things under lack of

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Speaker 4: impulse control. When it comes to shopping. Oniomania, which is

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Speaker 4: compulsive shopping or most commonly referred to as a shopping addiction,

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Speaker 4: is perhaps one of the most socially acceptable addictions, which

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Speaker 4: is why we don't use the real name for it

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Speaker 4: very often. Jess, think about it. We're surrounded by advertising

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Speaker 4: that tells us that buying makes us happy and it's

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Speaker 4: something we should do on a daily basis.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point. Actually, before we get any

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Speaker 3: further into the show, let's add a little content warning,

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Speaker 3: because this is an episode about an addiction, even if

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Speaker 3: it is one that seems maybe frivolous or freely on

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Speaker 3: the surface, and we will be talking about abuse as

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Speaker 3: a cause for this, but we are looking into it

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Speaker 3: and talking about it to offer support. So if you're

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Speaker 3: not ready to hear this, or if you do need

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Speaker 3: any extra help, check out the resources that we've popped

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Speaker 3: in the show notes, reach out to a professional or

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Speaker 3: a supportive friend, and please look after yourself.

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Speaker 4: That's right, Jesse. It is also really tricky because of

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Speaker 4: the world that we live in. Like you said before,

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Speaker 4: it has been romanticized for forever. We've got Kerry Bradshaw

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Speaker 4: and Rebecca Bloomfield, all of which a lot of us

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Speaker 4: historically quote cough me, have really looked up to and

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Speaker 4: arguably idolized. Like what young woman doesn't want to live

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Speaker 4: in New York and have the shoe collection that Kerry

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Speaker 4: Bradshaw does. Like I am, literally Jessica Ricci buying Manolo's

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Speaker 4: to wear at my wedding hat because she had them.

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Speaker 4: If that is not iconic, I don't know what is.

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Speaker 4: Which raises the question of why we've romanticized people in

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Speaker 4: these positions before and not really ever called it out.

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Speaker 4: Jess When was the last time you heard a story

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Speaker 4: about a guy with a shopping addiction? Can't even tell

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Speaker 4: you well, actually, I've got an example. Do you want

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Speaker 4: to hear one? Absolutely a little while ago, and I

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Speaker 4: saved this probably a couple of years ago. I put

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Speaker 4: it into my email so that one day when we

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Speaker 4: did an episode on shopping addictions, I could bring it up.

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Speaker 4: But it was from an article in GQ, and it

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Speaker 4: was called My Gucci Addiction, if you want to look

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Speaker 4: it up, and it was about a guy who managed

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Speaker 4: to spend six hundred and thirty eight four hundred and

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Speaker 4: twelve dollars and ninety seven cents in three years on

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Speaker 4: designer clothing.

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Speaker 3: That is insane.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was insane at the time, but it's

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Speaker 4: really rare to see a prominent example of a male shopoholic,

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Speaker 4: because often when men spend their money, it seemed to be,

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Speaker 4: oh my gosh, he enjoys what he earns and he

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Speaker 4: deserves it, whereas when women do it, it seemed to

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Speaker 4: be frivolous because people don't project the same value onto

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Speaker 4: women's things as they do men's. It was an interesting read,

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Speaker 4: and you guys can look it up. It was called

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Speaker 4: my Gucci Addiction, and he talked about how he owned

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Speaker 4: this fancy Ostridge leather Gucci jacket from Gucci which was

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Speaker 4: like thirteen thousand dollars or something ridiculous, and how he

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Speaker 4: actually never wore it, and to me it was wild.

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Speaker 4: But I think it's really important today, Jess, that we

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Speaker 4: really talk about this tricky issue because in the world

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Speaker 4: we live in where shopping is part of life, it's

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Speaker 4: honestly harder to avoid feeding the addiction when every day

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Speaker 4: offers up a new dopamine hit in the form of

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Speaker 4: adding more items to our physical or more relevantly, our

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Speaker 4: digital cut.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it definitely goes beyond, you know, going a

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Speaker 3: little bit overboard splitching and a sale or treating yourself

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Speaker 3: to a few cute, little new things. It looks a

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Speaker 3: little bit different to that. Can you explain it a

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Speaker 3: little bit further?

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Speaker 4: Look like any other addictional, compulsive behavior. People literally can't

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Speaker 4: stop with this. It is a very common addiction. Again,

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Speaker 4: as we said before, the most commonly accepted addiction, but

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Speaker 4: reported cases of shopping addictions can literally end in suicide.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people have ended up in jail, and

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Speaker 4: there are multiple cases just even in our own community,

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Speaker 4: where it's been the reason for a marriage breakdown.

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Speaker 3: Is this a new disorder or a new thing or

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Speaker 3: has it just recently been identified.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe it is new at all, but the

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Speaker 4: phenomenon of excessive or uncontrolled buying or shopping has been

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Speaker 4: described in a clinical setting for more than a century.

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Speaker 4: So finally, in twenty twenty one, international experts in psychology

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Speaker 4: have built a framework to diagnose compulsive buying shopping disorder,

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Speaker 4: and surprisingly, up until now, there's been no formal accepted

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Speaker 4: diagnosis for the disorder, despite it being highly prevalent, disabling

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Speaker 4: and a growing problem that continues to contribute to over

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Speaker 4: consumption and massive amounts of debt. The new guidelines, which

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Speaker 4: were published in the Journal of Behavioral Addictions, confirms that

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Speaker 4: excessive buying and shopping can be so serious to constitute

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Speaker 4: a disorder, giving researchers and clinicians new powers to develop

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Speaker 4: more targeted interventions for this debilitating condition. And an international

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Speaker 4: collaboration which was led by Professor Mike Kurrios from Linda's

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Speaker 4: University and Professor Astrodmula from the Hannover Medical School in Germany,

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Speaker 4: have come up with the evidence based criteria for compulsive

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Speaker 4: buying shopping disorder.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, So what was the framework that they came up

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Speaker 3: with on how we define spending addiction.

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Speaker 4: Look, there are lots of different definitions, but their definition

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Speaker 4: includes the following. So the first is preoccupation with shopping,

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Speaker 4: which is basically an irresistible urge to buy a product,

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Speaker 4: reduced control over buying behaviors, so you're spending more time

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Speaker 4: or money shopping than you ever intended, buying products and

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Speaker 4: not using them for the purposes they were intended to serve.

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Speaker 4: Using shopping to regulate your mood, to experience a high,

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Speaker 4: or to reduce tension, or if you're just bored as

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Speaker 4: a result of compulsive buying, experiencing negative consequences or impairments,

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Speaker 4: so things like guilt or shame, or significant debt or

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Speaker 4: even just debt in general, and relationship problems, negative mood

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Speaker 4: and cognitive symptoms if you're attempting to stop. So, for example,

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Speaker 4: if you're trying to stop and not go shopping anymore,

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Speaker 4: you end up anxious, You've got agitation, you're angry, you

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Speaker 4: might be worried, or you've got a whole heap of rumination.

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Speaker 4: And the last one was that despite the negative consequences,

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Speaker 4: you continue to engage in dysfunctional shopping behavior. So I

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Speaker 4: feel like all of those, at some point or other

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Speaker 4: I've experienced. But moving on, Jess.

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Speaker 3: A lot of those sound to me a lot like

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Speaker 3: the signs of like a smoking addiction, because I feel

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Speaker 3: like that's something you see really commonly, and you hear

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Speaker 3: people talking particularly around like the anxiety and agitation, which

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Speaker 3: is really funny.

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Speaker 4: Because it's an actual addiction, Like you are not wrong

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Speaker 4: at all, And these things would apply to gambling or

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Speaker 4: smoking or drug use. Literally, jes every other type of

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Speaker 4: addiction has these things. And even though you're not going

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Speaker 4: to get quote withdrawal, clearly the negative mood and cognitive symptoms,

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Speaker 4: if you're stopping of anxiety and agitation and anger, those

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Speaker 4: are literal withdrawal symptoms.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything else that we should know about this

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Speaker 3: particular addiction.

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Speaker 4: Yep. So in the article it also said it could

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Speaker 4: be episodic or chronics, so it could happen, you know, infrequently,

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Speaker 4: or it could be an ongoing issue. Compulsive shopping shares

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Speaker 4: several characteristics with other psychological disorders, unsurprisingly, including anxiety and

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Speaker 4: mood disorders, substance abuse, impulse control disorders, and OCD or

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Speaker 4: obsessive compulsive disorder, and the research suggested that compulsive buying,

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Speaker 4: because of the cravings, the highs, the other similarities in

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Speaker 4: terms of the impulsivity, is very similar to other behavioral addictions,

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Speaker 4: as you said before, Jess, like gambling, OCD, hoarding, or

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Speaker 4: even drug use.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting. How common is this? So?

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Speaker 4: Professor Kurios, who was part of the team to come

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Speaker 4: up with the framework that we've been discussing, says that

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Speaker 4: compulsive buying impacts around five percent of the population in

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Speaker 4: developed economies, which makes sense. It's not all economies, it's

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Speaker 4: just the developed ones, but that figure is very likely

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Speaker 4: to rise. He also made two really good points that

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Speaker 4: I've written down, Jess, that I think you might find interesting.

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Speaker 4: The first was, in the past, to go shopping, the

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Speaker 4: shops actually had to be open. Obviously, things are a

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Speaker 4: lot more accessible. And the second was that the Internet

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Speaker 4: allows you to shop online at night when the ability

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Speaker 4: to control your thinking and your decision making might be

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Speaker 4: compromised and a lot of people maybe have had a

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Speaker 4: few drinks.

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Speaker 3: That's actually really funny because the first thing I think

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Speaker 3: of is, and I mean maybe not everyone's had this experience,

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Speaker 3: but when you're stumbling out of a club at three

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Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning. In Melbourne, there's you know the

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Speaker 3: main strip where everybody goes out. Or if you're going

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Speaker 3: down Chapel and you want to.

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Speaker 4: Plan on Chapel, is that where we're going?

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Speaker 3: If kabab, but you're wandering past all of the shops,

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Speaker 3: and I have this really clear recollection of being quite

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Speaker 3: drunk and wandering paste was like nicer boutiques and going

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Speaker 3: I could spend four thousand dollars on a bag.

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Speaker 4: Which I absolutely couldn't.

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Speaker 3: But everything closed at three o'clock in the morning, right,

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Speaker 3: so I can't walk in and put my money on

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Speaker 3: the table and say give me that bag that I

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Speaker 3: really want that I absolutely can't afford. But the point

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Speaker 3: that they're making here the fact that online shopping is

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Speaker 3: so accessible. I can plug my credit card details in

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Speaker 3: my credit card details might even be saved in my

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Speaker 3: Internet brows line that is three clicks away, and that

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Speaker 3: bag's on the way to my house.

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Speaker 4: Just a little while ago, we were on the plane

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Speaker 4: and you let me know that there was actually Wi

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Speaker 4: Fi on the plane, and so I came home from

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Speaker 4: that trip. We went on to Finncon. I've come home

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Speaker 4: to a number of parcels. I'm not mad about them,

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Speaker 4: but I'm also like, Wow, the free alcohol on the

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Speaker 4: plane and that are free Wi Fi really to get me.

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Speaker 4: And that's not to trivialize what's going on. I think

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Speaker 4: it's just to say, look, as much as this can

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Speaker 4: go really far down the line, it's also in a

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Speaker 4: way a little bit like alcohol. You've got different levels

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Speaker 4: of alcohol abuse, right, Like we've got full blown alcoholism,

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Speaker 4: but then we've also got binge drinking and maybe not

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Speaker 4: being able to regulate ourselves properly when we do drink.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's really important to understand that these

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Speaker 4: things are on a spectrum and not necessarily you have

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Speaker 4: a shopping addiction or you don't. And that's why we're

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Speaker 4: talking about the legitimate frameworks around this, because these are

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Speaker 4: things that everyday people struggle with. But then there is

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Speaker 4: that small minority of our population, that five percent that

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Speaker 4: really struggle with this. Above and beyond my little shopping

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Speaker 4: spree that I had while we were in flight, Jess,

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Speaker 4: I feel like as.

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Speaker 3: Well, the really precise cocktail of not having access to

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Speaker 3: stores and the rise of online shopping during the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: alongside the rapidly increasing mental health crisis means that this

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Speaker 3: kind of behavior has probably become a little bit more

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Speaker 3: normalized when it comes to online shopping as well.

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Speaker 4: Right, I mean going back to it. At the end

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Speaker 4: of the day, shopping has always been normalized. It's kind

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Speaker 4: of a quote funny thing that we see people do.

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Speaker 4: Like it's unacceptable from my perspective because at the end

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Speaker 4: of the day, we shouldn't be normalizing extreme online shopping. However,

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Speaker 4: when your friend puts in a big iconic order like

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Speaker 4: we don't go, oh my gosh, do you want to

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Speaker 4: talk about that? Is there something else going on? You're like, oh,

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Speaker 4: what did you get? Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: Like if I said to you, oh, Jess, I spent

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Speaker 4: one thousand dollars online today, your first comment, I guarantee

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Speaker 4: won't be like, oh are you okay? It would be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: what did you get? And it's just such a different mentality.

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Speaker 4: But I do think we need to be taking this

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Speaker 4: seriously because just this is stopping our community from buying

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Speaker 4: their first homes or getting out of dead or saving

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Speaker 4: for holidays that they want to go on. Like, this

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Speaker 4: stuff is stopping us achieving our financial goals. And if

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Speaker 4: anything is stopping us achieving our financial goals. It's important

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Speaker 4: to talk about. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to a really quick break, and when we

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Speaker 3: come back, I want to talk to you a little

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Speaker 3: bit more about what might predispose us to these shopping addictions.

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Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere. Welcome back everybody today on chees on

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Speaker 3: the money. We are talking about shopping addiction. Can you

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Speaker 3: talk me through what predisposes people to having this particular addiction?

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Speaker 4: All right, So going back to the research, because I

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Speaker 4: think that's a very good place to start. Researchers have

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Speaker 4: found that one major risk factor for compulsive shopping is

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Speaker 4: childhood adversity, which I found really surprising. So this includes

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Speaker 4: having a physically abusive or negligent parent, an emotionally neglectful

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Speaker 4: parent who demands the child earns their love through quote

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Speaker 4: good behavior, families that have experienced financial reversals and fixate

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Speaker 4: on lost luxury, which I think was a very interesting one.

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Speaker 4: And in these difficult family environments, possessions are often used

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Speaker 4: as a means of easing suffering, boosting self esteem, or

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Speaker 4: restoring lost social status, which I think is really interesting

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Speaker 4: and definitely not what I thought i'd find. When we

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Speaker 4: dived into the research.

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Speaker 3: It makes a lot of sense. Though I've said on

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Speaker 3: the pod before and I don't remember where it was,

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Speaker 3: but I grew up in a single income household, and

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Speaker 3: I remember when I got my first job, I went wild,

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Speaker 3: And I mean I was working two Today's a week

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Speaker 3: while week within the breadth of a two two hundred dollars. Yeah. Literally,

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Speaker 3: like when I say wild, I was spending every penny

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Speaker 3: that I had up to approximately two hundred dollars.

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Speaker 4: That's what I was. I mean that's a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, especially at a young age, but I can totally

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Speaker 3: kind of see how people who are going through these

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Speaker 3: kind of adverse experiences want something that they can't have,

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Speaker 3: and then as an adult unlocked in a way, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you have access to credit products or buy now, pay

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Speaker 3: later products, and it means that you can utilize these

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Speaker 3: platforms to have things that maybe you otherwise wouldn't be

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Speaker 3: able to And I could totally see how that would

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Speaker 3: bear a slippery slope for some people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting as well. And I mean this is

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Speaker 4: a little bit of a tangent, but when you look

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Speaker 4: into the research behind hoarding, it's really really similar. It's

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Speaker 4: kind of maybe you grew up with a lack of something,

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Speaker 4: and now you just never want to be without, or

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Speaker 4: you feel like these possessions actually hold a lot more

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Speaker 4: value than they actually do. We might do an entire

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Speaker 4: episode on hoarding, because I find it's so interesting and

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Speaker 4: it is so financially crippling that I don't think a

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Speaker 4: lot of people understand the ramifications of it or how

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Speaker 4: it filters down, but it is really interesting.

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Speaker 3: Do spending addictions run in a family?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Look, researchers have noted that compared to people who don't

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Speaker 4: have shopping addictions, those that do have them are far

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Speaker 4: more likely to have a parent, a sibling, or a

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Speaker 4: child with the same condition or other mental health issues

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Speaker 4: like an anxiety disorder, mood disord, or substance use disorders.

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Speaker 3: Well, how about when compulsive spending is a result of

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Speaker 3: another condition or disorder, so maybe a manic episode or

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Speaker 3: something like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, look, that's actually a really important delineation, because what

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Speaker 4: we're talking about today is not things like compulsive buying

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Speaker 4: during a manic episode of bipolar that is driven by

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Speaker 4: euphoria and grandiosity, or with disorders like schizophrenia, where shopping

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Speaker 4: behavior is far more likely to be related to delusional behavior.

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Speaker 4: And we're also not talking about neurodiversity. I've spoken before

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Speaker 4: about impulsivity with things like ADHD and being on the

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Speaker 4: autism spectrum. We're not talking about any of those things today.

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Speaker 4: We're literally only talking about oniomania, which is literally compulsive

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Speaker 4: shopping on its own, not with another disorder.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so what are some signs that your shopping or

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Speaker 3: the shopping of somebody around you might be out of control?

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Speaker 4: All right, Jess, I have unsurprisingly written the list. Are

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Speaker 4: you ready?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 4: Some common behaviors include the following. Hiding purchase or receipts,

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Speaker 4: or hiding your bank account information, downplaying purchases. For example,

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Speaker 4: you might say, Jess, oh, don't worry, it was on

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Speaker 4: sale or no, honey, I've always had this item in

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Speaker 4: my wardrobe. You've seen it before. Preoccupations of thoughts. So

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Speaker 4: if I had this top, I would feel so much better,

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Speaker 4: or so much happier, or so much smarter. Justifying behavior, so,

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Speaker 4: oh my gosh, no, this is a treat. I absolutely

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Speaker 4: deserve this, replacing one addiction with another. So, for example,

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Speaker 4: people who are abstaining from drinking might actually swap on

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Speaker 4: over to shopping shopping to feel good, keeping up appearances,

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Speaker 4: so the desire to present certain images to others, which

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Speaker 4: we know is not a good thing. Ever, revenge shopping

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Speaker 4: jess is a thing. This is, for example, when you

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Speaker 4: have an argument with your partner and you're like, you

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Speaker 4: know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go

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Speaker 4: buy a whole new outfit and then shopping to please others.

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Speaker 4: So gift giving to have someone like them. So obviously

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Speaker 4: this is outside of normal experiences. It's not like, oh

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Speaker 4: my gosh, it's July. It's just a birthday, we probably

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Speaker 4: should get a present. It's actually more about purchasing things

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Speaker 4: to have other people like you.

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Speaker 3: Reading through this list, I can totally see how shopping

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Speaker 3: addictions could go unchecked or undiagnosed for long periods of

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Speaker 3: time because a number of those things I am guilty

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Speaker 3: of doing, and I know.

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Speaker 4: That's why I'm reading them out. I'm like looking at you, going,

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Speaker 4: this is uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: And I know for a fact, like saying that out loud,

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Speaker 3: I definitely do not suffer from a shopping addiction. I'm

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Speaker 3: fairly regulated with my money, but you know a lot

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Speaker 3: of these things like oh I deserve a little treat

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Speaker 3: so relatable phrases, right, Yeah, absolutely, And so it makes

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Speaker 3: sense that people would maybe have a hard time categorizing

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Speaker 3: their behaviors as detrimental when they are somewhat normalized and

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Speaker 3: things that exist, I suppose on that sliding scale where

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Speaker 3: maybe you're just giving yourself a little treat once in

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Speaker 3: a while versus giving yourself a little treat every day.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's a really important delineation as well,

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Speaker 3: because we're not talking about you resonating with one of

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Speaker 3: those things on the list, which Jess you said, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I absolutely do.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of about the culmination of those things being

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Speaker 4: a consistent in your life. So it's not like, oh

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Speaker 4: my gosh, I do deserve a treat because I've worked

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Speaker 4: really hard. Maybe that is really justified. Maybe it's the

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Speaker 4: consistent justification of behavior like you literally do it every

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Speaker 4: day or you do it every week. And then to

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Speaker 4: add to that, you're also downplaying purchases, and you're also

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Speaker 4: hiding things from your partner or your friends or your family,

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Speaker 4: and also you go shopping to feel really good. Does

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Speaker 4: that make sense, Like it's the culmination of all of

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Speaker 4: it together, not just one phrase, which I think, as

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Speaker 4: you said before, makes it so much harder to identify,

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Speaker 4: especially in other people, because you go, oh, well, just

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Speaker 4: just bought that. I don't know her financial circumstance. I

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Speaker 4: don't know if she's abusing her circumstances or just has

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Speaker 4: a really good budget and cash flow system, right, Whereas

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Speaker 4: if you were doing the same thing with alcohol, it

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Speaker 4: would be far more obvious.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess it's when all of those little

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Speaker 3: habits or all of those little thoughts start to add

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Speaker 3: up and have a detrimental impact on your life. Also

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Speaker 3: an interesting little I guess sidebar here is that a

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Speaker 3: bit from jess Yeah, A lot of these things on

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Speaker 3: this list are things that advertisers tap into.

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Speaker 4: At it, you're so right, and they reiterate it to.

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Speaker 3: Us as consumers as a way to get us to buy,

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Speaker 3: Like you deserve this little treat, or it's on sale

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Speaker 3: by two.

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Speaker 4: Or hey, go shopping, it'll make you feel good. You

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Speaker 4: should come down to department store XYZ, or buy this

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Speaker 4: new top. It's in fact, I hate that, Jessica. Why

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Speaker 4: did you bring that up?

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Speaker 3: Well, it just goes into that, I guess the fact

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Speaker 3: that advertisers are smart and they really play into the

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Speaker 3: psychology of things without any regard for the impact that

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Speaker 3: it might be having on people.

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Speaker 4: Sneaky sneaky. They know exactly what they're doing, of.

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Speaker 3: Course, But if someone is suffering from a compulsive shopping addiction,

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Speaker 3: how can it be managed or treated? What can we

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Speaker 3: do about it?

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Speaker 4: Look, first things first, I think the most important thing

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Speaker 4: you can do is actually see your GP and get

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Speaker 4: a referral to a psychologist or a counselor that specializes

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Speaker 4: in addictive behavior, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: that's exactly what it is. You could also reach out

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Speaker 4: to our friends at the National Helpline because they have,

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Speaker 4: as I've said a billion times, a plethora of gorgeous

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Speaker 4: resources to help you. They have access to free financial counseling,

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Speaker 4: and to me, that's something that maybe we need to

435
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 4: get on top of. Maybe chat to a financial counselor

436
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 4: and they'll say, look, here are your issues, here's what's

437
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 4: going on. You need to take it a step further

438
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 4: and actually go and see another psychologist or another counselor.

439
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 4: It's a bit beyond just financial counseling, but I reckon

440
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 4: that would be my first step. I also have a

441
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 4: few little dot points of some other strategies that could

442
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 4: help control spending, and they include the following. So first

443
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 4: things first, I would unsubscribe from any emails that trigger

444
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 4: the urge to spend. I know my inbox is absolutely flowing,

445
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: free flowing, if you will, with marketing emails, especially at

446
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 4: the moment. I would remove all your credit card details

447
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 4: online cough Jessica, RICKI get rid of that from your

448
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 4: computer browser. I would keep a shopping diary, so keep

449
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 4: track of your purchases. Honestly, I don't know if I'm

450
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 4: comfortable doing this myself because I'm so good at being like, oh,

451
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 4: I need this dress for work, and then the next

452
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,159
Speaker 4: week going and looking at another dress. It would actually

453
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 4: be quite confronting having a list right there of like, hey, Victoria,

454
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 4: you spend one hundred dollars on a dress last week,

455
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 4: and I'd be like, oh, that was kind of recent.

456
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 4: So that could be a really good idea. I would

457
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 4: consider removing devices from the bedroom. I mean, that's a

458
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 4: good idea in general, one I'm not ready to do

459
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 4: because I do like having a little cheeky TikTok scroll

460
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 4: when I said I was going to bed. But if

461
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 4: online shopping is happening at night. Maybe that's a really

462
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 4: good step to take. I would also Jess avoid going

463
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 4: online shopping at night, particularly after having gone out for

464
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 4: a few little drinks. I would develop some healthier ways

465
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 4: to handle negative emotions, such as practicing mindfulness exercises. There

466
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 4: are so many free apps on this My favorite mindfulness

467
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,640
Speaker 4: app at the moment is actually a free app called

468
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 4: Oak literally free, has really good mindfulness activities, free breathing activities,

469
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 4: and good rain sounds. We love sound?

470
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 3: Do you love rain sounds?

471
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 4: And then before going shopping, I would absolutely urge you

472
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 4: to make a list before you get there so that

473
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 4: we can stick to what we were actually in the

474
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 4: shops for.

475
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 3: I feel like as well, even if you don't think

476
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: you're struggling with an addiction, these are some really good

477
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 3: habits that you can implement to raining just your spending.

478
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 3: For financial reasons, yeah, absolutely help with your budget and

479
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 3: cash flow. But if this episode has raised any concerns

480
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: with you, please talk to a healthcare professional. We'll have

481
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: a whole heap of links in the show notes to

482
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 3: Lifeline and Turning Point and a couple of other really

483
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 3: helpful resources as well. And even if you aren't listening

484
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 3: to this episode thinking, Wow, I've got a full blown

485
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 3: shopping addiction. If you feel like you're a little bit

486
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 3: out of control, or if you feel like you're just

487
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 3: really prone to using your mind now pay later app

488
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 3: a little bit too often, I would really encourage you

489
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: to talk to someone or make use of these resources,

490
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: because if you nip it in the bud early, it's

491
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 3: a little bit easier to get in front of the

492
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 3: boat before things become too detriment.

493
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 4: One hundred percent good episode, jess I Reckon.

494
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 3: I hope everyone enjoyed. It was really interesting to learn about,

495
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 3: and I think if we talk about it more hopefully

496
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: will help to destigmatize it a little bit.

497
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you take away anything from this episode,

498
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 4: I would love to think that we stop using words

499
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 4: like shopaholic or phrases like shop till you drop, because

500
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 4: they can actually be quite detrimental to normalizing shopping addictions, which,

501
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 4: as we've just learned, can actually be really detrimental to

502
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: your life.

503
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: Absolutely, But I think that's about all we've got time

504
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: for today.

505
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,719
Speaker 4: See you on Friday, guys.

506
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: Si