Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down.
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Trolope, a writer at ozova dot com and
Speaker 1: I'm joined by my colleague Australian Tennis Magazines Vive Christy Hey.
Speaker 2: Vib Hey, Matt.
Speaker 3: Great to be here with you for another week.
Speaker 1: Yes, and thank you for setting up this week's interview
Speaker 1: that we have with an Australian tennis legend turned administrator
Speaker 1: who's also written a book about clay court tennis. Tell
Speaker 1: us who I've got on this week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this week we chat with Paul McNamee, who
Speaker 3: is the author of the book Welcome to the Dance.
Speaker 3: And for anyone who has never quite appreciated the beauty
Speaker 3: and the romanticism of competing on a clay court, this
Speaker 3: is a great lesson. You'll learn a lot about the
Speaker 3: most beautiful clay courts in the world and also about
Speaker 3: why clay is such an important surface for learning tennis.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you'd interviewed Paul a couple of times before, but
Speaker 1: I'd never met him or interviewing before. I just remember
Speaker 1: him in growing up in my childhood as the Australian
Speaker 1: Open tournament director. So it was fantastic to get an
Speaker 1: opportunity to chat to him this week, and here it is.
Speaker 3: Paul, thank you for joining us on the sit down.
Speaker 3: You're joining us during the clay court season, clearly a
Speaker 3: season that you came to love so much so that
Speaker 3: it became a topic of your book. Welcome to the dance.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the dance. That's right, the clay court season.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the clay court season Europe, which is kind
Speaker 4: of the epicenter of it all. And the dance is
Speaker 4: about how do you make a tennis ball dance? And
Speaker 4: when the dancer meets the dance, that's where you really
Speaker 4: get the flow and really get the beautiful part of
Speaker 4: the sport. So I really think there's inherent beauty in
Speaker 4: the clay court game, and if you're a master of
Speaker 4: that art, then you can make a tennis ball dance,
Speaker 4: as we've seen Raffa do of course, and the young
Speaker 4: version in al Karez and all of the other great players.
Speaker 3: So you make it sound like an absolute love affair,
Speaker 3: but you didn't always have such a love of clay.
Speaker 3: Describe your first experience of competing on clay.
Speaker 4: My first experience was actually in qualifying at Roland garral
Speaker 4: So in the first round because I played on Onto
Speaker 4: car Here and Shale in the UK, but I never
Speaker 4: played on European clay. I was only eighteen years of age.
Speaker 4: I got into qualifying, went over there. I was the
Speaker 4: number one junior in Australia, had won the juniors in
Speaker 4: the Australian Open, so I was.
Speaker 2: Thinking I was pretty good.
Speaker 4: I hadn't played on clay, but he I can servant
Speaker 4: BALI I've got my stuff.
Speaker 2: And I played a forty one year old guy.
Speaker 4: From Bolivia who I thought, well, you know, he's probably
Speaker 4: I can't clay, but you know, if I'm in trouble,
Speaker 4: I can beat him on fitness and speed because I'm
Speaker 4: only eighteen, I'm quick, et cetera, et cetera. And the
Speaker 4: first set he just gave me a lesson. I thought, wow,
Speaker 4: I mean he was giving me angles drop shots. I
Speaker 4: didn't know I was doing so then I thought the
Speaker 4: second set, I'll just hit every ball back and make
Speaker 4: sure that it's a war of attrition and I'm going
Speaker 4: to win on a fitness.
Speaker 2: Well, then he just played the angles a.
Speaker 4: Drop shot really quickly when I wasn't expecting it. If
Speaker 4: I try to play one on him, he seemed expecting
Speaker 4: and I lost six one, six two, and I just
Speaker 4: I was humiliated. I walked off with my tail between
Speaker 4: my legs and I just couldn't believe what a different
Speaker 4: experience it was. The other odd thing about that match,
Speaker 4: it was actually on court Philip chatrias court Central at
Speaker 4: Roland Garralds, which for qualifyings extraordinary that they were using
Speaker 4: center court, but they were, and I thought, you know,
Speaker 4: it was such a vast court. It's even bigger than
Speaker 4: rod labor Arena, the surface area. So I can honestly
Speaker 4: I say I was disrobed out there. It felt naked,
Speaker 4: basically like he is someone who has no idea and humiliated.
Speaker 4: And as I walked off that court, I remember thinking,
Speaker 4: you know, I wonder if if I will ever have
Speaker 4: a better feeling than this. So I stayed around in Paris.
Speaker 4: I didn't run back to England. I you know, I
Speaker 4: you know, my eyes are wide open, and just to
Speaker 4: hold the Champs Notre Dame, the the fashion of Paris,
Speaker 4: the cafes are open, and and and and even the
Speaker 4: lanterns and the and the street names in the blue riding.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was such an amazing experience for my
Speaker 4: virginized basically to see a city like this, and I
Speaker 4: stayed in What's the Great Players. Rosa was still playing
Speaker 4: in the Great Aussies. And also Nastasi was the King
Speaker 4: of Europe that year he'd won Monticolor. He had one Rome,
Speaker 4: the favorite in Paris. So I went and watched him
Speaker 4: play on Court Central it was called at the time,
Speaker 4: and he was playing a German guy and just completely
Speaker 4: giving him a lesson. And the thing I noticed was
Speaker 4: how easy it was from he was completely in control,
Speaker 4: which is the complete antithesis of what I was, completely
Speaker 4: not in control and no idea what to do, and
Speaker 4: whatever his opponent seemed to do, he seemed to have
Speaker 4: the answer effortlessly, and I was just amazed by his
Speaker 4: effortless flow.
Speaker 2: And he was in the zone.
Speaker 4: And he went on one Paris that year in the
Speaker 4: French Open, was number one in the world. He didn't
Speaker 4: I don't think he lost a set that year. And
Speaker 4: I remember I was I was going in the train back,
Speaker 4: you know, back to get the ferry back to London.
Speaker 2: I remember, as I was leaving Paris, I was just thinking, I.
Speaker 4: Wonder if I will ever have that feeling of that
Speaker 4: nestazi of knowing what I'm doing on a clay court
Speaker 4: and to.
Speaker 2: Experience just a taste of what he was experiencing.
Speaker 4: And it was seven long years before I ever got
Speaker 4: back to that cenate court. I'd played on a lot
Speaker 4: of the great status four Italica, my debut in Davis Cup,
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, but I hadn't played on that
Speaker 4: center court at roll and Girl.
Speaker 2: Still.
Speaker 4: I played John McEnroe seven years later at the third
Speaker 4: round of the French Open, and I'm playing pretty well.
Speaker 4: I'm top fifty now, so I'm pretty good player. He's
Speaker 4: number two in the world about to become number one,
Speaker 4: and you know, he.
Speaker 2: Knew he'd stuffed John. I mean, he was a bloody
Speaker 2: good player.
Speaker 4: So I thought, but you know, it's not his best surface.
Speaker 4: It's my best surface. Now, I think I've got a
Speaker 4: chance to win a be competitive maybe when it sat,
Speaker 4: you know, I lost the tiebreak first, win the tie
Speaker 4: break in the second I'm in the match, and then
Speaker 4: it went for over four hours of match, and it
Speaker 4: was the type break you know. In the fourth set,
Speaker 4: and I was up four to and I had a
Speaker 4: winner passed John and I saw his head just shake,
Speaker 4: you know, and he realized he was done. And I
Speaker 4: won that tiebreak one in four tiebreaks, and so I'm
Speaker 4: leaving the court.
Speaker 2: Crowd went crazy. He didn't like John.
Speaker 4: He's a brash American et cetera, et cetera. You know,
Speaker 4: And as I'm leaving the court, you'd think I'd be
Speaker 4: thinking about, you know, just being number two in the world.
Speaker 4: My rakings going, oh, good, prize money, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: But no, I was just thinking about the feeling I
Speaker 4: had as an eighteen year old having no clue about
Speaker 4: life really and about where I was going, and would
Speaker 4: I one day know what I'm doing?
Speaker 2: And that's sense of fulfillment.
Speaker 4: I've never had anything professionally as much as that in
Speaker 4: my life. Then I had that moment when I walked
Speaker 4: off that court.
Speaker 2: Incredible.
Speaker 3: A major premise of your book, of course, is that
Speaker 3: by mastering clay, you can master all surfaces.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 3: Why is that the case?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a little controversial and probably a little
Speaker 4: upsetting for the fast court player who would want to
Speaker 4: challenge that because they think, well, just because I'm a
Speaker 4: ser valier, it doesn't mean that I don't know what
Speaker 4: I'm doing. Look now, and look the San frances and
Speaker 4: all those guys, the Beckers and all those guys Cashi,
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera. I'm not saying they weren't great players,
Speaker 4: but I do think there's a gap in your knowledge
Speaker 4: if you can kind of get away with serve volting
Speaker 4: on any court because you don't really have to learn
Speaker 4: the awcoord game.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you can serve boli that packash, why.
Speaker 4: Didn't need to learn how to be a greade all
Speaker 4: around player.
Speaker 2: So I kind of get that, but we're talking about.
Speaker 4: Kind of more of a deeper Eastern look at this
Speaker 4: and what is what is the holistic view of the sport?
Speaker 4: And I think that having been able to go through
Speaker 4: those seven years of learning an art that I didn't have,
Speaker 4: it does help a lot, I think for your your
Speaker 4: holistic approach to the game, and then when you retire
Speaker 4: and you're coaching, because you've gone through that whole process
Speaker 4: and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses in their game
Speaker 4: and as a coach, you need to match that with
Speaker 4: the surface that they're playing. And so I'm not a
Speaker 4: great fan of players who are not good on clay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: You described earlier that you learned from watching the Stasi,
Speaker 3: and you also in your book you talk about beyond Borg.
Speaker 3: More recently, we've had, of course Rafael Nadal, who are
Speaker 3: some of the other great players that provide lessons in
Speaker 3: how to compete on a clay court.
Speaker 4: Well, Theo Rafa and beyond Borg far and away the
Speaker 4: two mass grand masters. We can call them over of
Speaker 4: chess because clay's chess at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: hardcourt is drafts. I mean they're quite different games. One
Speaker 4: is linear and one is angular. One has nuances, one
Speaker 4: does not. So clay court is a chess board. So
Speaker 4: the grand masters are Raphae, Nadal and beyond Borg. Next
Speaker 4: in line will be Carlos Acaraz. How it was almost Americle.
Speaker 4: He didn't win the French last year and he will
Speaker 4: win it this year. I mean unless something amazing happens.
Speaker 4: He's that good. This guy on clay, right, this guy
Speaker 4: is the real deal. He's got it all. He could
Speaker 4: win ten rolling Garross's I mean, we're not saying fourteen
Speaker 4: like Rafa, but he's for me, he's far and away
Speaker 4: the best player on clay. So right now, so I
Speaker 4: you know, the last few years I've been rolling gross.
Speaker 4: I go and watch Elk Grass because I just it
Speaker 4: brings me joy to see a guy doing when he's
Speaker 4: doing the drop shots, the angles, the mixing of the
Speaker 4: power with the venesse, his all court mastery. Grew up
Speaker 4: in Spain. He he's not linear. Janisen is linear, great play,
Speaker 4: but linear our Gras is not.
Speaker 2: There's a difference.
Speaker 1: You've said a lot a lot of things that related
Speaker 1: to chats we've had recently with other people, particularly talking
Speaker 1: about Clay. I don't think Todd Woodbridge will be unhappy
Speaker 1: with me saying this, but he said when he was
Speaker 1: developing his game that he wanted to play in a
Speaker 1: way that would lead to success at Wimbledon, because Australians
Speaker 1: grew up obviously with that connection with Wimbledon.
Speaker 2: He's a window.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, grass court and and so he kind of said, well,
Speaker 1: I want the shots that will lead to success at Wimbledon.
Speaker 1: Even maybe his game was more suited to Clay as
Speaker 1: a teenager, he wanted success at Wimbledon. But we vive
Speaker 1: and I spoke to Sam Stowsa. Was it last week
Speaker 1: or the week before, and she said that when she
Speaker 1: moved into commentary for Channel nine. She just says clay
Speaker 1: for her as just the one. She just loves watching it,
Speaker 1: she loves the strategy. She said, all the things that
Speaker 1: you said, and how like beautiful clay court tennis is
Speaker 1: to watch and I just that is not as much
Speaker 1: of the Australian perspective. You and Sam seem a bit
Speaker 1: distinct in that you love clay court tennis and Roland Garross,
Speaker 1: whereas a lot of Australians remember ASHBARTI used to say,
Speaker 1: one more week on clay is a week closer to grass,
Speaker 1: Like there's that in Australia and it was their first slam. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Australians haven't traditionally, you say on the back of your book,
Speaker 1: we don't traditionally play pay as much attention to clay
Speaker 1: court tennis.
Speaker 2: Why is that? Why?
Speaker 1: Why are more Australians captivated by it?
Speaker 4: Will we have a deep, I guess gap in our
Speaker 4: history in the fact that we don't have great clay
Speaker 4: courts in Australia. And in fact there's a guy called
Speaker 4: more Young and Melbourne right now is converting onto car
Speaker 4: into real European clay. This has never happened in one
Speaker 4: hundred and over one hundred years. So we grew up
Speaker 4: on onto car But the thing is that they're an
Speaker 4: inferior form of clay.
Speaker 2: The difference clay is from the.
Speaker 4: Ground onto cars from crush rock, so there's a difference,
Speaker 4: you see. So it's it's not as smooth, it doesn't
Speaker 4: have the base, it's it's it's just a very inferior
Speaker 4: clay court you get bad bounces. In Europe you rarely
Speaker 4: get a bad bounce. It's much finer the surface. American
Speaker 4: clay is also very good, so we have a gap.
Speaker 4: And of course as soon as where it gets better,
Speaker 4: we start playing with grass and all of country Australia
Speaker 4: was basically grass or ashfelt so and a lot of
Speaker 4: our champions came from from the bush rod labor and
Speaker 4: all the greats came from Roy Emerson, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: So the rest of the world grows up on claim
Speaker 4: we don't, so we've got to have this catch up.
Speaker 4: We don't have that in our background, so we have
Speaker 4: to learn how to play on clay. So and it
Speaker 4: takes at least five years to do that, and a
Speaker 4: lot of players, you know, Patcashi included. We're not prepared
Speaker 4: to do that as soon as they're out of the
Speaker 4: French straight to grasp, you know, even back in a
Speaker 4: play on a cow. Paddy could play on a cricket
Speaker 4: oval to get ready for Wimbledon.
Speaker 2: But and even upine.
Speaker 4: I mean that was hard for me when I went
Speaker 4: first calling the score in French the first time I
Speaker 4: went there. You know what, no, I mean, Gab said
Speaker 4: in Mats six two six one, I got that.
Speaker 3: How pleased have you been to see clay courts appearing
Speaker 3: in academies and certain clubs throughout Australia?
Speaker 4: Very happy ten Australia really drove that. I mean I
Speaker 4: jumped up board myself in with the West Australian Student
Speaker 4: Sport when I was helping them, I put in a
Speaker 4: help put in two heart true American clay courts into Perth,
Speaker 4: which was great. They've never been a clay court in Perth,
Speaker 4: I mean ever, it's just over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but they've never.
Speaker 4: Had a Davis Cup representative till Matt Epton came along, right,
Speaker 4: you know, so first time, so I think it's kind
Speaker 4: of linked. So I really wanted to have clay over there,
Speaker 4: so I help with that and then Tennis astral did
Speaker 4: a really good job putting in clay courts here in
Speaker 4: Melbourne Park. It was an amazing development. And when I
Speaker 4: came down to help the Victorian juniors here, I would
Speaker 4: only go on the clay court.
Speaker 1: You mentioned the eighty two Australian Open semi final, but
Speaker 1: then hearing you talk about beating McEnroe eighty French Open
Speaker 1: and how that was when you felt the most control.
Speaker 2: Yeah on court?
Speaker 1: Would you say that making the fourth round of that
Speaker 1: Roland Garross having beaten the world number two was a
Speaker 1: bigger career highlight for you than the semis?
Speaker 4: Now, the semis of a slam you got to go
Speaker 4: with because the semis a semi.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know the slams and slams.
Speaker 4: But no, I didn't have the joy playing on grass
Speaker 4: or hardcore that I had on clay. So when you know,
Speaker 4: I won't set foot on a hardcore now, I mean
Speaker 4: if I'm coaching the straight up, but I'll set foot
Speaker 4: on it.
Speaker 2: Okay, you got it. I got to get some balls,
Speaker 2: but I.
Speaker 4: Won't set foot on it because I don't get the
Speaker 4: joy out of it that I get on You know,
Speaker 4: when I coach you moment I won't coach, will not
Speaker 4: coach on a hardcourt.
Speaker 2: I'll go to clay because that's where you learn the
Speaker 2: game as we learn to develop your game.
Speaker 4: So juniors out there, get on clay if you want
Speaker 4: to be a player, I mean, and once you learn
Speaker 4: all those skills, it will transfer to every surface. There's
Speaker 4: no problem playing on any court. Once you know how
Speaker 4: to play in clay. The reverse is not true, okay,
Speaker 4: And that goes back to the original question, because you
Speaker 4: don't learn the nuances of soublities. You don't know how
Speaker 4: to play chess. You know how to play drafts. Big difference.
Speaker 3: You've played on some of the world's most beautiful clay courts.
Speaker 3: What are some of your favorites.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, Monty Carlo is not bad. You know where
Speaker 4: it's located. It's right overlooking the Mediterranean, which is so
Speaker 4: the coaches which is blue. Obviously, the clubhouse just sits
Speaker 4: on the cliffs, overlooking center court, overlooking the Mediterranean. And
Speaker 4: I think the greatest dining experience you can have is
Speaker 4: to sit on the terrace in Monte Carlo, the white tablecloths,
Speaker 4: the way is dressed impeccably, and have a meal overlooking
Speaker 4: Center Court overlooking the Mediterranean. I took my wife there
Speaker 4: last year for the first time. You know, we went there,
Speaker 4: and you know, it's just something you've got to tick
Speaker 4: off on your bucket list if you like. You know,
Speaker 4: it doesn't and in tournament time you have trouble getting
Speaker 4: a table, but the rest of the year, no, and
Speaker 4: you know, and dropped my name, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, Mack and I won the doubles.
Speaker 4: There, which was great, and you know our names on
Speaker 4: the marble. It's in marble there at Monte Carlo Country Club,
Speaker 4: which is just a beautiful, beautiful place. It's the headquarters
Speaker 4: of the ATP in Europe, so you know, you can
Speaker 4: be at lunch there and sits apass and Paula Bardosa
Speaker 4: on the next table, and that's any time of the year. Look,
Speaker 4: it's it's a pretty cool place. So that's that's that one.
Speaker 4: I mean, rolling gross Obviously, Court Central is amazing because
Speaker 4: that's the mecca.
Speaker 2: Of clay court tennis.
Speaker 4: Then you've got Court Pierre Trangel in Rhyme, which is
Speaker 4: the old Senate court, which is where I made my
Speaker 4: David's Cup debut against Adreno Pernard, who won the French
Speaker 4: on that court, which is now not because they built
Speaker 4: a new centate court the old Senate court they took.
Speaker 2: The top of it. I was going to say it's
Speaker 2: quite small.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they've got the statues all around which were
Speaker 4: mid level, and now it's just the most beautiful outside.
Speaker 4: It's the most beautiful, non sense to court in the world.
Speaker 4: There is no doubt about that. It is just so amazing.
Speaker 4: Of course you're in Rome and da da da dada.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just a pleasure. And I mean, I
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 4: I loved playing on that court, and I love it
Speaker 4: when I'm coaching a player that's playing on that court,
Speaker 4: and it's it's just very very special.
Speaker 2: Then you get the little other, the other little gems
Speaker 2: around the world.
Speaker 4: I mean, I was on holidays with my family and
Speaker 4: in Croatia and in the island of Do they have
Speaker 4: tennis cours, and I'm not sure that maybe they're up
Speaker 4: the hill. I think there is, you know, so I
Speaker 4: just go up with my son, he's only eight years old,
Speaker 4: take the rackets, all the courts, the lock. There's nobody there,
Speaker 4: but this place is overlooking the I said the Adriatic
Speaker 4: i'ld stand corrected, but I think the I mean, this
Speaker 4: club is just sitting on a hell no one there,
Speaker 4: but all the gates are. But I know from when
Speaker 4: I was a kid. You know, if there's eight courts
Speaker 4: and they're all supposed to be locked, you check every lock.
Speaker 2: There's normally one gate.
Speaker 4: That's going to be open, right and sure enough, sure
Speaker 4: I think it was caught five, you know, sure enough
Speaker 4: once and we go in, we go rackets, balls, then
Speaker 4: we go and play with this beautiful view.
Speaker 2: So this is another little gem that pops up.
Speaker 4: The Rockets Club in Dusseldorf, where the old Nations Cup
Speaker 4: was a World Team Cup, was I mean.
Speaker 2: Just a beautiful center cord.
Speaker 4: It was so amazing that this tree that had been
Speaker 4: there one hundred and fifty years that overlook the court,
Speaker 4: and they built the grand stand around the tree because
Speaker 4: they didn't want to lose a tree.
Speaker 2: So that's really green behavior. And it's such a beautiful setting,
Speaker 2: you know. So these are examples.
Speaker 4: So to be honest, any clay court is beautiful in itself.
Speaker 2: It's intrinsically beautiful.
Speaker 1: They do sound particularly beautiful though.
Speaker 4: Especially yea and the beautiful, rich, rich color, the red color,
Speaker 4: and the way you can slide.
Speaker 2: So you can't slide on hardcourt. So you're missing you're
Speaker 2: missing something.
Speaker 4: I mean, you can plant on a clay court and
Speaker 4: rip a ball if you want to slide plant play
Speaker 4: on hardcore your plan and play you run through the ball, whatever,
Speaker 4: But you can't slide on a hardcore I mean Jockovich
Speaker 4: and you know Sam Kim class is doing little slides right,
Speaker 4: but you can't do that beautiful long slide where you
Speaker 4: complete it plant shit, switch your power from the from
Speaker 4: the planet's leg to the other one and be off
Speaker 4: to the next shot like Raffa does. I mean he
Speaker 4: finishes his slide at the very moment he transfers his
Speaker 4: way to rip the ball and then his fourhand swing
Speaker 4: waiting for the next one.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's that's beauty. Okay, this is just beauty.
Speaker 1: So you've gotten into the weeds of kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: moving on clay and kind of how the game Well,
Speaker 1: I guess there there've always been tenants of clay cor tennis,
Speaker 1: but since you played and you watch clay called tennis,
Speaker 1: now has it evolved? Like is it different now competing
Speaker 1: on clay?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is different now because of the equipment, because
Speaker 4: you can generate so much power that you can hit
Speaker 4: winners from anywhere else in the court. In the old days,
Speaker 4: you have to work much harder to win a point
Speaker 4: on clay because it was harder to hit a winner
Speaker 4: because the rackets, especially in the wood racket here, you
Speaker 4: just couldn't hit winners right with Borg, I mean it
Speaker 4: was very, very tough, so it was more of a
Speaker 4: war of attrition. But now you look at al Groz,
Speaker 4: he can or Raffa, they can hit a winner from anywhere,
Speaker 4: which is amazing. So it is it's a faster form
Speaker 4: of the game. So I find it by far the
Speaker 4: most interesting to watch is clay called tennis, because it's
Speaker 4: not as slow as it used to be because the
Speaker 4: technology has made the points a lot quicker and in fact,
Speaker 4: the average point on clay now, I mean Rafa's point.
Speaker 4: Interesting stat with Rafa is when you play him, his
Speaker 4: points are a shorter on clay than on other surfaces.
Speaker 4: And you might ask why, Well, the reason is is
Speaker 4: because his forehand is such a weapon on clay that
Speaker 4: you live in such fear of once he gets to forehand,
Speaker 4: he's going to take control of the point that you
Speaker 4: have to go for something very quickly in the point
Speaker 4: to try and end it because he's going to strangle
Speaker 4: you with his forehand, because he's so dominant in the end.
Speaker 4: On clay the best shot wins, So in the end
Speaker 4: Nadal wins because he's got the best shot in the
Speaker 4: history of the game, which is his forehand. There is
Speaker 4: no better shot in the history of tennis. That's why
Speaker 4: he's won forteene roll in garrossis sho I write him off.
Speaker 3: Don't write Rafa off, who is kind of returning to
Speaker 3: form this week in Madrid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly is.
Speaker 3: I loved hearing Paul talk about the past, present and
Speaker 3: future greats of clay court tennis.
Speaker 1: You're right, and it was such an in depth chat
Speaker 1: that we'll actually bring you a part two of our
Speaker 1: chat with mcnamie on a later date on the sit
Speaker 1: Down and we'll be back again next Monday. But in
Speaker 1: the meantime, you can listen to John and the Teen
Speaker 1: this Thursday on the Aoshow Weekly.
Speaker 3: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes,
Speaker 3: and please remember subscribe, rate and review.
Speaker 1: See you next week, Bib, look.
Speaker 3: Forward to it.
Speaker 4: Matt