WEBVTT - The Sit-Down with Paul McNamee 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:04.960 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the sit Down. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:07.360 I'm Matt Trolope, a writer at ozova dot com and 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.960 I'm joined by my colleague Australian Tennis Magazines Vive Christy Hey. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:11.760 Vib Hey, Matt. 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:13.440 Great to be here with you for another week. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.479 Yes, and thank you for setting up this week's interview 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.759 that we have with an Australian tennis legend turned administrator 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.400 who's also written a book about clay court tennis. Tell 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:23.400 us who I've got on this week. 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:26.680 Yeah, So this week we chat with Paul McNamee, who 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.760 is the author of the book Welcome to the Dance. 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.680 And for anyone who has never quite appreciated the beauty 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:37.120 and the romanticism of competing on a clay court, this 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.559 is a great lesson. You'll learn a lot about the 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.840 most beautiful clay courts in the world and also about 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.880 why clay is such an important surface for learning tennis. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:46.600 Yeah. 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.320 And you'd interviewed Paul a couple of times before, but 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.240 I'd never met him or interviewing before. I just remember 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.360 him in growing up in my childhood as the Australian 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.000 Open tournament director. So it was fantastic to get an 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.840 opportunity to chat to him this week, and here it is. 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.520 Paul, thank you for joining us on the sit down. 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.640 You're joining us during the clay court season, clearly a 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.120 season that you came to love so much so that 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.880 it became a topic of your book. Welcome to the dance. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.880 Welcome to the dance. That's right, the clay court season. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.280 Welcome to the clay court season Europe, which is kind 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.400 of the epicenter of it all. And the dance is 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:27.040 about how do you make a tennis ball dance? And 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:30.440 when the dancer meets the dance, that's where you really 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.200 get the flow and really get the beautiful part of 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.600 the sport. So I really think there's inherent beauty in 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.640 the clay court game, and if you're a master of 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.600 that art, then you can make a tennis ball dance, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.119 as we've seen Raffa do of course, and the young 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.720 version in al Karez and all of the other great players. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.320 So you make it sound like an absolute love affair, 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.840 but you didn't always have such a love of clay. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:01.440 Describe your first experience of competing on clay. 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.240 My first experience was actually in qualifying at Roland garral 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.000 So in the first round because I played on Onto 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:09.919 car Here and Shale in the UK, but I never 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.240 played on European clay. I was only eighteen years of age. 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.160 I got into qualifying, went over there. I was the 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.200 number one junior in Australia, had won the juniors in 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:18.400 the Australian Open, so I was. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:19.760 Thinking I was pretty good. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.640 I hadn't played on clay, but he I can servant 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:23.480 BALI I've got my stuff. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.200 And I played a forty one year old guy. 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.000 From Bolivia who I thought, well, you know, he's probably 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.080 I can't clay, but you know, if I'm in trouble, 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.240 I can beat him on fitness and speed because I'm 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.040 only eighteen, I'm quick, et cetera, et cetera. And the 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.600 first set he just gave me a lesson. I thought, wow, 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.560 I mean he was giving me angles drop shots. I 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:43.960 didn't know I was doing so then I thought the 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.560 second set, I'll just hit every ball back and make 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.800 sure that it's a war of attrition and I'm going 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:49.840 to win on a fitness. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.720 Well, then he just played the angles a. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.000 Drop shot really quickly when I wasn't expecting it. If 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.040 I try to play one on him, he seemed expecting 0:02:58.080 --> 0:02:59.640 and I lost six one, six two, and I just 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.800 I was humiliated. I walked off with my tail between 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.239 my legs and I just couldn't believe what a different 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.640 experience it was. The other odd thing about that match, 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.400 it was actually on court Philip chatrias court Central at 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:15.840 Roland Garralds, which for qualifyings extraordinary that they were using 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.400 center court, but they were, and I thought, you know, 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.920 it was such a vast court. It's even bigger than 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.760 rod labor Arena, the surface area. So I can honestly 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.280 I say I was disrobed out there. It felt naked, 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:32.160 basically like he is someone who has no idea and humiliated. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.120 And as I walked off that court, I remember thinking, 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.280 you know, I wonder if if I will ever have 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.600 a better feeling than this. So I stayed around in Paris. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.400 I didn't run back to England. I you know, I 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.800 you know, my eyes are wide open, and just to 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:52.040 hold the Champs Notre Dame, the the fashion of Paris, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.440 the cafes are open, and and and and even the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.640 lanterns and the and the street names in the blue riding. 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.400 I mean, it was such an amazing experience for my 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.120 virginized basically to see a city like this, and I 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.560 stayed in What's the Great Players. Rosa was still playing 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.360 in the Great Aussies. And also Nastasi was the King 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.440 of Europe that year he'd won Monticolor. He had one Rome, 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.000 the favorite in Paris. So I went and watched him 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.119 play on Court Central it was called at the time, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.640 and he was playing a German guy and just completely 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.279 giving him a lesson. And the thing I noticed was 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.480 how easy it was from he was completely in control, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.200 which is the complete antithesis of what I was, completely 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.279 not in control and no idea what to do, and 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:38.599 whatever his opponent seemed to do, he seemed to have 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.680 the answer effortlessly, and I was just amazed by his 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:43.920 effortless flow. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:45.320 And he was in the zone. 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:47.839 And he went on one Paris that year in the 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.400 French Open, was number one in the world. He didn't 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:52.839 I don't think he lost a set that year. And 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:54.800 I remember I was I was going in the train back, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:57.760 you know, back to get the ferry back to London. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.160 I remember, as I was leaving Paris, I was just thinking, I. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.200 Wonder if I will ever have that feeling of that 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.160 nestazi of knowing what I'm doing on a clay court 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:07.920 and to. 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.720 Experience just a taste of what he was experiencing. 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.960 And it was seven long years before I ever got 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.160 back to that cenate court. I'd played on a lot 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.960 of the great status four Italica, my debut in Davis Cup, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.520 et cetera, et cetera, but I hadn't played on that 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:23.680 center court at roll and Girl. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:23.920 Still. 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.680 I played John McEnroe seven years later at the third 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.960 round of the French Open, and I'm playing pretty well. 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.159 I'm top fifty now, so I'm pretty good player. He's 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.880 number two in the world about to become number one, 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:37.719 and you know, he. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.920 Knew he'd stuffed John. I mean, he was a bloody 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:42.760 good player. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.200 So I thought, but you know, it's not his best surface. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.200 It's my best surface. Now, I think I've got a 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.479 chance to win a be competitive maybe when it sat, 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.560 you know, I lost the tiebreak first, win the tie 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.280 break in the second I'm in the match, and then 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.400 it went for over four hours of match, and it 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.640 was the type break you know. In the fourth set, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:03.560 and I was up four to and I had a 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.400 winner passed John and I saw his head just shake, 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.200 you know, and he realized he was done. And I 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.840 won that tiebreak one in four tiebreaks, and so I'm 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:13.599 leaving the court. 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:15.440 Crowd went crazy. He didn't like John. 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.240 He's a brash American et cetera, et cetera. You know, 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.760 And as I'm leaving the court, you'd think I'd be 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.200 thinking about, you know, just being number two in the world. 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.880 My rakings going, oh, good, prize money, et cetera, et cetera. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.440 But no, I was just thinking about the feeling I 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.640 had as an eighteen year old having no clue about 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.039 life really and about where I was going, and would 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.719 I one day know what I'm doing? 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.440 And that's sense of fulfillment. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.200 I've never had anything professionally as much as that in 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.760 my life. Then I had that moment when I walked 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:45.400 off that court. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:46.280 Incredible. 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.440 A major premise of your book, of course, is that 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.720 by mastering clay, you can master all surfaces. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:53.160 Correct. 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:54.280 Why is that the case? 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.840 Yeah, that's that's a little controversial and probably a little 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.919 upsetting for the fast court player who would want to 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.760 challenge that because they think, well, just because I'm a 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:06.839 ser valier, it doesn't mean that I don't know what 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.560 I'm doing. Look now, and look the San frances and 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.480 all those guys, the Beckers and all those guys Cashi, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.280 et cetera, et cetera. I'm not saying they weren't great players, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.560 but I do think there's a gap in your knowledge 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:20.560 if you can kind of get away with serve volting 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.640 on any court because you don't really have to learn 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:25.440 the awcoord game. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:27.640 I mean, if you can serve boli that packash, why. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.840 Didn't need to learn how to be a greade all 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:30.320 around player. 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.240 So I kind of get that, but we're talking about. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:37.920 Kind of more of a deeper Eastern look at this 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.160 and what is what is the holistic view of the sport? 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.920 And I think that having been able to go through 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.160 those seven years of learning an art that I didn't have, 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.680 it does help a lot, I think for your your 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.680 holistic approach to the game, and then when you retire 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.760 and you're coaching, because you've gone through that whole process 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.240 and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses in their game 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.520 and as a coach, you need to match that with 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:08.000 the surface that they're playing. And so I'm not a 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.120 great fan of players who are not good on clay. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:12.840 Yeah, that's true. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.120 You described earlier that you learned from watching the Stasi, 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.400 and you also in your book you talk about beyond Borg. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.960 More recently, we've had, of course Rafael Nadal, who are 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.040 some of the other great players that provide lessons in 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.480 how to compete on a clay court. 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.079 Well, Theo Rafa and beyond Borg far and away the 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.160 two mass grand masters. We can call them over of 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.360 chess because clay's chess at the end of the day, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.000 hardcourt is drafts. I mean they're quite different games. One 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.400 is linear and one is angular. One has nuances, one 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.360 does not. So clay court is a chess board. So 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:52.000 the grand masters are Raphae, Nadal and beyond Borg. Next 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:56.400 in line will be Carlos Acaraz. How it was almost Americle. 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.000 He didn't win the French last year and he will 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.360 win it this year. I mean unless something amazing happens. 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.040 He's that good. This guy on clay, right, this guy 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.760 is the real deal. He's got it all. He could 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.360 win ten rolling Garross's I mean, we're not saying fourteen 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.440 like Rafa, but he's for me, he's far and away 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:17.400 the best player on clay. So right now, so I 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.559 you know, the last few years I've been rolling gross. 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:21.840 I go and watch Elk Grass because I just it 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:23.719 brings me joy to see a guy doing when he's 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:25.640 doing the drop shots, the angles, the mixing of the 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.960 power with the venesse, his all court mastery. Grew up 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.960 in Spain. He he's not linear. Janisen is linear, great play, 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:35.800 but linear our Gras is not. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:37.240 There's a difference. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.720 You've said a lot a lot of things that related 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.600 to chats we've had recently with other people, particularly talking 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.880 about Clay. I don't think Todd Woodbridge will be unhappy 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.560 with me saying this, but he said when he was 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.720 developing his game that he wanted to play in a 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.640 way that would lead to success at Wimbledon, because Australians 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.840 grew up obviously with that connection with Wimbledon. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:55.480 He's a window. 0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:01.160 Yeah yeah, grass court and and so he kind of said, well, 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.079 I want the shots that will lead to success at Wimbledon. 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.880 Even maybe his game was more suited to Clay as 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.839 a teenager, he wanted success at Wimbledon. But we vive 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:11.959 and I spoke to Sam Stowsa. Was it last week 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:14.200 or the week before, and she said that when she 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.880 moved into commentary for Channel nine. She just says clay 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.160 for her as just the one. She just loves watching it, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:21.840 she loves the strategy. She said, all the things that 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.120 you said, and how like beautiful clay court tennis is 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.960 to watch and I just that is not as much 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.560 of the Australian perspective. You and Sam seem a bit 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.960 distinct in that you love clay court tennis and Roland Garross, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:36.920 whereas a lot of Australians remember ASHBARTI used to say, 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.360 one more week on clay is a week closer to grass, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.959 Like there's that in Australia and it was their first slam. Yeah, 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.240 Australians haven't traditionally, you say on the back of your book, 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:47.880 we don't traditionally play pay as much attention to clay 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:48.400 court tennis. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:49.280 Why is that? Why? 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.120 Why are more Australians captivated by it? 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.560 Will we have a deep, I guess gap in our 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.080 history in the fact that we don't have great clay 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.480 courts in Australia. And in fact there's a guy called 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.840 more Young and Melbourne right now is converting onto car 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.600 into real European clay. This has never happened in one 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.200 hundred and over one hundred years. So we grew up 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.400 on onto car But the thing is that they're an 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:12.400 inferior form of clay. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.959 The difference clay is from the. 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.320 Ground onto cars from crush rock, so there's a difference, 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.360 you see. So it's it's not as smooth, it doesn't 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.439 have the base, it's it's it's just a very inferior 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.160 clay court you get bad bounces. In Europe you rarely 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.679 get a bad bounce. It's much finer the surface. American 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.360 clay is also very good, so we have a gap. 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.079 And of course as soon as where it gets better, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.360 we start playing with grass and all of country Australia 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.319 was basically grass or ashfelt so and a lot of 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.520 our champions came from from the bush rod labor and 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.760 all the greats came from Roy Emerson, et cetera, et cetera. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:48.480 So the rest of the world grows up on claim 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.240 we don't, so we've got to have this catch up. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.240 We don't have that in our background, so we have 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.280 to learn how to play on clay. So and it 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.680 takes at least five years to do that, and a 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.440 lot of players, you know, Patcashi included. We're not prepared 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.319 to do that as soon as they're out of the 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.719 French straight to grasp, you know, even back in a 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.000 play on a cow. Paddy could play on a cricket 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.360 oval to get ready for Wimbledon. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.040 But and even upine. 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:10.360 I mean that was hard for me when I went 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:12.880 first calling the score in French the first time I 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:17.280 went there. You know what, no, I mean, Gab said 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:18.680 in Mats six two six one, I got that. 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:21.640 How pleased have you been to see clay courts appearing 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.000 in academies and certain clubs throughout Australia? 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.079 Very happy ten Australia really drove that. I mean I 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.720 jumped up board myself in with the West Australian Student 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:33.200 Sport when I was helping them, I put in a 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.240 help put in two heart true American clay courts into Perth, 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.520 which was great. They've never been a clay court in Perth, 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.400 I mean ever, it's just over there. 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.120 Yeah yeah, but they've never. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.640 Had a Davis Cup representative till Matt Epton came along, right, 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.559 you know, so first time, so I think it's kind 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:52.360 of linked. So I really wanted to have clay over there, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.640 so I help with that and then Tennis astral did 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.439 a really good job putting in clay courts here in 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.640 Melbourne Park. It was an amazing development. And when I 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.000 came down to help the Victorian juniors here, I would 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:04.120 only go on the clay court. 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.080 You mentioned the eighty two Australian Open semi final, but 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.640 then hearing you talk about beating McEnroe eighty French Open 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.200 and how that was when you felt the most control. 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:14.319 Yeah on court? 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.520 Would you say that making the fourth round of that 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.080 Roland Garross having beaten the world number two was a 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.880 bigger career highlight for you than the semis? 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:22.840 Now, the semis of a slam you got to go 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:24.960 with because the semis a semi. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.200 I mean, you know the slams and slams. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.680 But no, I didn't have the joy playing on grass 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.760 or hardcore that I had on clay. So when you know, 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.320 I won't set foot on a hardcore now, I mean 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.080 if I'm coaching the straight up, but I'll set foot 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:37.199 on it. 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.000 Okay, you got it. I got to get some balls, 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:39.360 but I. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.760 Won't set foot on it because I don't get the 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.160 joy out of it that I get on You know, 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.960 when I coach you moment I won't coach, will not 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:46.920 coach on a hardcourt. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.280 I'll go to clay because that's where you learn the 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.600 game as we learn to develop your game. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.280 So juniors out there, get on clay if you want 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.720 to be a player, I mean, and once you learn 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.240 all those skills, it will transfer to every surface. There's 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.440 no problem playing on any court. Once you know how 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.959 to play in clay. The reverse is not true, okay, 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.200 And that goes back to the original question, because you 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.320 don't learn the nuances of soublities. You don't know how 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.679 to play chess. You know how to play drafts. Big difference. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.680 You've played on some of the world's most beautiful clay courts. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:19.120 What are some of your favorites. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.920 Well, yeah, Monty Carlo is not bad. You know where 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.600 it's located. It's right overlooking the Mediterranean, which is so 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.720 the coaches which is blue. Obviously, the clubhouse just sits 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.360 on the cliffs, overlooking center court, overlooking the Mediterranean. And 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.880 I think the greatest dining experience you can have is 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.320 to sit on the terrace in Monte Carlo, the white tablecloths, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.120 the way is dressed impeccably, and have a meal overlooking 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.120 Center Court overlooking the Mediterranean. I took my wife there 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.120 last year for the first time. You know, we went there, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.840 and you know, it's just something you've got to tick 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.360 off on your bucket list if you like. You know, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.720 it doesn't and in tournament time you have trouble getting 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:01.440 a table, but the rest of the year, no, and 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.960 you know, and dropped my name, but. 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.880 Yeah, and look, Mack and I won the doubles. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.160 There, which was great, and you know our names on 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.880 the marble. It's in marble there at Monte Carlo Country Club, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:20.960 which is just a beautiful, beautiful place. It's the headquarters 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.280 of the ATP in Europe, so you know, you can 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.440 be at lunch there and sits apass and Paula Bardosa 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.600 on the next table, and that's any time of the year. Look, 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.160 it's it's a pretty cool place. So that's that's that one. 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.640 I mean, rolling gross Obviously, Court Central is amazing because 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:35.840 that's the mecca. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:37.040 Of clay court tennis. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.840 Then you've got Court Pierre Trangel in Rhyme, which is 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.600 the old Senate court, which is where I made my 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:44.640 David's Cup debut against Adreno Pernard, who won the French 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.040 on that court, which is now not because they built 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.160 a new centate court the old Senate court they took. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.640 The top of it. I was going to say it's 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:51.080 quite small. 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.200 Yeah, well they've got the statues all around which were 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:57.520 mid level, and now it's just the most beautiful outside. 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.320 It's the most beautiful, non sense to court in the world. 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.280 There is no doubt about that. It is just so amazing. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.440 Of course you're in Rome and da da da dada. 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.480 You know, it's just a pleasure. And I mean, I 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:10.920 love it. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.160 I loved playing on that court, and I love it 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.000 when I'm coaching a player that's playing on that court, 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.920 and it's it's just very very special. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:19.960 Then you get the little other, the other little gems 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:20.440 around the world. 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.320 I mean, I was on holidays with my family and 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.000 in Croatia and in the island of Do they have 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.640 tennis cours, and I'm not sure that maybe they're up 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.160 the hill. I think there is, you know, so I 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.120 just go up with my son, he's only eight years old, 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:36.240 take the rackets, all the courts, the lock. There's nobody there, 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.760 but this place is overlooking the I said the Adriatic 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.960 i'ld stand corrected, but I think the I mean, this 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.000 club is just sitting on a hell no one there, 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.240 but all the gates are. But I know from when 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.960 I was a kid. You know, if there's eight courts 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.760 and they're all supposed to be locked, you check every lock. 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.760 There's normally one gate. 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.280 That's going to be open, right and sure enough, sure 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.280 I think it was caught five, you know, sure enough 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.600 once and we go in, we go rackets, balls, then 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.240 we go and play with this beautiful view. 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.160 So this is another little gem that pops up. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.640 The Rockets Club in Dusseldorf, where the old Nations Cup 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:13.359 was a World Team Cup, was I mean. 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:14.480 Just a beautiful center cord. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.760 It was so amazing that this tree that had been 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.520 there one hundred and fifty years that overlook the court, 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.200 and they built the grand stand around the tree because 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:24.439 they didn't want to lose a tree. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:28.160 So that's really green behavior. And it's such a beautiful setting, 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:30.720 you know. So these are examples. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.840 So to be honest, any clay court is beautiful in itself. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:36.400 It's intrinsically beautiful. 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.000 They do sound particularly beautiful though. 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:42.480 Especially yea and the beautiful, rich, rich color, the red color, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:43.800 and the way you can slide. 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.320 So you can't slide on hardcourt. So you're missing you're 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:48.160 missing something. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.879 I mean, you can plant on a clay court and 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.040