1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of The Sit Down. 2 00:00:05,140 --> 00:00:07,770 Speaker 1: I'm Matt Trollope, a writer at ozopen.com and I'm joined 3 00:00:07,810 --> 00:00:10,450 Speaker 1: by my colleague, Australian Tennis Magazine's Viv Christie. 4 00:00:10,650 --> 00:00:10,909 Speaker 2: Hey Viv. 5 00:00:11,289 --> 00:00:13,330 Speaker 3: Hey Matt, great to be here with you for another week. 6 00:00:13,590 --> 00:00:16,390 Speaker 1: Yes, and thank you for setting up this week's interview 7 00:00:16,410 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: that we have with an Australian tennis legend turned administrator 8 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:22,220 Speaker 1: who's also written a book about clay court tennis. 9 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:23,300 Speaker 4: Tell us who we've got on this week. 10 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:26,660 Speaker 3: Yeah, so this week we chat with Paul McNamee who 11 00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:29,710 Speaker 3: is the author of the book Welcome to the Dance 12 00:00:29,990 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: and For anyone who has never quite appreciated the beauty 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,059 Speaker 3: and the romanticism of competing on a clay court, this 14 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,540 Speaker 3: is a great lesson. You'll learn a lot about the 15 00:00:39,580 --> 00:00:42,770 Speaker 3: most beautiful clay courts in the world and also about 16 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,810 Speaker 3: why clay is such an important surface for learning tennis. 17 00:00:46,130 --> 00:00:46,410 Speaker 4: Yeah. 18 00:00:46,670 --> 00:00:49,330 Speaker 1: And you'd interviewed Paul a couple of times before, but 19 00:00:49,370 --> 00:00:51,810 Speaker 1: I'd never met him or interviewed him before. I just 20 00:00:51,850 --> 00:00:55,310 Speaker 1: remember him growing up in my childhood as the Australian 21 00:00:55,330 --> 00:00:57,970 Speaker 1: Open Tournament Director. So it was fantastic to get an 22 00:00:57,990 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: opportunity to chat to him this week and- Here it is. 23 00:01:04,100 --> 00:01:06,500 Speaker 3: Paul, thank you for joining us on The Sit Down. 24 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 3: You're joining us during the clay court season, clearly a 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,150 Speaker 3: season that you came to love so much so that 26 00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:14,850 Speaker 3: it became a topic of your book, Welcome to the Dance. 27 00:01:15,190 --> 00:01:16,789 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Dance. That's right. 28 00:01:16,830 --> 00:01:19,369 Speaker 5: The clay court season, welcome to the clay court season 29 00:01:19,390 --> 00:01:21,690 Speaker 5: in Europe, which is kind of the epicenter of it all. 30 00:01:21,930 --> 00:01:25,300 Speaker 5: And the dance is about how do you make a 31 00:01:25,380 --> 00:01:29,339 Speaker 5: tennis ball dance? And when the dancer meets the dance 32 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 5: that's where you really get the flow and really get 33 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:35,540 Speaker 5: the beautiful part of the sport so I really think 34 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:39,380 Speaker 5: there's inherent beauty in the clay court game and if 35 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,540 Speaker 5: you're a master of that art then you can make 36 00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:45,340 Speaker 5: a tennis ball dance as we've seen Rafa do of 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,140 Speaker 5: course and the young version in Alcaraz and and and 38 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 5: all of the other great players. 39 00:01:51,590 --> 00:01:54,370 Speaker 3: So you make it sound like an absolute love affair, 40 00:01:54,830 --> 00:01:57,870 Speaker 3: but you didn't always have such a love of clay. 41 00:01:57,990 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: Describe your first experience of competing on clay. 42 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 5: My first experience was actually in qualifying at Roland Garros 43 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 5: in the first round because I played on Onticar here 44 00:02:08,540 --> 00:02:10,260 Speaker 5: and Shale in the UK, but I never played on 45 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,410 Speaker 5: European clay. I was only 18 years of age. I 46 00:02:12,430 --> 00:02:15,430 Speaker 5: got into qualifying, went over there. I was the number 47 00:02:15,470 --> 00:02:17,250 Speaker 5: one junior in Australia. I'd won the juniors at the 48 00:02:17,270 --> 00:02:19,780 Speaker 5: Australian open. So I was thinking I was pretty, pretty good. 49 00:02:19,810 --> 00:02:21,460 Speaker 5: I hadn't played on clay, but hey, I can serve 50 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:22,260 Speaker 5: in volley. 51 00:02:22,419 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: I've got my stuff. 52 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 5: And, uh, I played a 41 year old guy from 53 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 5: Bolivia who I thought, well, you know, he's, he's probably 54 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,180 Speaker 5: okay on clay, but you know, if I'm in trouble, 55 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,220 Speaker 5: I can beat him on fitness and speed. Cause I'm 56 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 5: only 18, I'm quick, et cetera, et cetera. 57 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,470 Speaker 2: And, um, the first set, he just gave me a lesson. 58 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,889 Speaker 2: I thought, wow. I mean, he was giving me angles, 59 00:02:40,970 --> 00:02:43,260 Speaker 2: drop shots. I didn't know what I was doing. 60 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,060 Speaker 5: So then I thought the second set, I'll just hit 61 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:47,780 Speaker 5: every ball back and make sure that it's a war 62 00:02:47,820 --> 00:02:49,700 Speaker 5: of attrition and I'm going to win on my fitness. 63 00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:53,220 Speaker 2: Well, then he just played the angles, the drop. 64 00:02:53,020 --> 00:02:56,190 Speaker 5: Shot really quickly when I wasn't expecting it. If I 65 00:02:56,260 --> 00:02:57,609 Speaker 5: tried to play one on him, he seemed to be 66 00:02:57,650 --> 00:03:00,630 Speaker 5: expecting it. I lost 6-1, 6-2 and I just, I 67 00:03:00,669 --> 00:03:02,870 Speaker 5: was humiliated. I walked off with my tail between my 68 00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:06,649 Speaker 5: legs and I just couldn't believe what a different experience 69 00:03:06,669 --> 00:03:08,750 Speaker 5: it was. The other odd thing about that match, it 70 00:03:08,790 --> 00:03:13,049 Speaker 5: was actually on, Court Philippe Chatrier, Court Central at Roland Garros, 71 00:03:13,090 --> 00:03:16,570 Speaker 5: which for qualifying, it's extraordinary that they were using Centre Court, 72 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:19,470 Speaker 5: but they were. And I thought, you know, it was 73 00:03:19,610 --> 00:03:22,770 Speaker 5: such a vast court. It's even bigger than Rod Laver Arena, 74 00:03:22,810 --> 00:03:25,970 Speaker 5: the surface area. So I can honestly say, I was 75 00:03:26,130 --> 00:03:29,530 Speaker 5: disrobed out there. I felt naked, basically, like here is 76 00:03:29,620 --> 00:03:33,260 Speaker 5: someone who has no idea and humiliated. And as I 77 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:35,660 Speaker 5: walked off that court, I remember thinking, you know, I 78 00:03:36,220 --> 00:03:39,380 Speaker 5: wonder if I will ever have a better feeling than this. 79 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,260 Speaker 5: So I stayed around in Paris. I didn't run back 80 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,369 Speaker 5: to England. I, you know, I, I, you know, my 81 00:03:45,430 --> 00:03:48,150 Speaker 5: eyes are wide open. I mean, just the whole, the Champs-Élysées, 82 00:03:48,350 --> 00:03:53,310 Speaker 5: Notre Dame, the, the fashion of Paris, the cafes are 83 00:03:53,430 --> 00:03:55,380 Speaker 5: open and the, and, and the, and the, even the 84 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 5: lanterns and the, and the street names in the blue writing. 85 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 5: I mean, it was such a, an amazing experience, uh, 86 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,530 Speaker 5: for my virgin eyes basically to see a city like this. And, 87 00:04:06,070 --> 00:04:08,100 Speaker 5: I stayed and watched the great players. Roswell was still 88 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 5: playing and the great Aussies. And also, Nastassi was the 89 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,780 Speaker 5: king of Europe that year. He'd won Monte Carlo. He'd 90 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 5: won Rome, the favorite in Paris. So I went and 91 00:04:16,580 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 5: watched him play on Court Central, it was called at 92 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 5: the time. And he was playing a German guy and 93 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,660 Speaker 5: just completely giving him a lesson. And the thing I 94 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,180 Speaker 5: noticed was how easy it was for him. He was 95 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 5: completely in control. which is the complete antithesis of what 96 00:04:33,180 --> 00:04:35,900 Speaker 5: I was, completely not in control and no idea what 97 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,140 Speaker 5: to do. And whatever his opponents seemed to do, he 98 00:04:38,180 --> 00:04:40,930 Speaker 5: seemed to have the answer effortlessly. And I was just 99 00:04:40,990 --> 00:04:45,410 Speaker 5: amazed by his effortless flow and he was in the zone. 100 00:04:45,589 --> 00:04:47,750 Speaker 5: And he went on and won Paris that year in 101 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:49,690 Speaker 5: the French Open, was number one in the world. 102 00:04:49,710 --> 00:04:51,950 Speaker 2: I don't think he lost a set that year. 103 00:04:52,820 --> 00:04:54,779 Speaker 5: And I remember as I was going in the train back, 104 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,770 Speaker 5: you know, back to get the ferry back to London. 105 00:04:57,830 --> 00:05:00,500 Speaker 5: I remember as I was leaving Paris, I was just thinking, 106 00:05:00,940 --> 00:05:03,740 Speaker 5: I wonder if I will ever have that feeling of 107 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,820 Speaker 5: the nostalgia of knowing what I'm doing on a clay 108 00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 5: court and to experience just a taste of what he 109 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,420 Speaker 5: was experiencing. And it was seven long years before I 110 00:05:13,460 --> 00:05:15,950 Speaker 5: ever got back to that centre court. I'd played on 111 00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:18,969 Speaker 5: a lot of the great stadiums, my debut in Davis Cup, 112 00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:22,570 Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. But I hadn't played on that 113 00:05:22,650 --> 00:05:25,330 Speaker 5: centre court at Rolling Girls till I played John McEnroe, 114 00:05:26,050 --> 00:05:28,870 Speaker 5: Seven years later, at the third round of the French Open, 115 00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:32,050 Speaker 5: I'm playing pretty well. I'm top 50 now, so I'm 116 00:05:32,070 --> 00:05:35,250 Speaker 5: a pretty good player. He's number two in the world, 117 00:05:35,290 --> 00:05:39,370 Speaker 5: about to become number one, and, you know, he knew 118 00:05:39,410 --> 00:05:40,150 Speaker 5: his stuff, John. 119 00:05:40,190 --> 00:05:42,380 Speaker 2: I mean, he was a bloody good player. 120 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 5: So I thought, but, you know, it's not his best surface. 121 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,140 Speaker 5: It's my best surface now. I think I've got a 122 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 5: chance to be competitive, maybe win a set. You know, 123 00:05:51,740 --> 00:05:54,690 Speaker 5: I lost a tiebreak the first– win the tie break 124 00:05:54,730 --> 00:05:55,950 Speaker 5: in the second, I'm in the match. 125 00:05:55,990 --> 00:05:58,050 Speaker 2: And then it went for over four hours of match. 126 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:01,010 Speaker 5: And it was the tie break, you know, in the 127 00:06:01,050 --> 00:06:03,450 Speaker 5: fourth set and I was up 4-2 and I had 128 00:06:03,490 --> 00:06:06,390 Speaker 5: a winner pass John and I saw his head just shake, 129 00:06:06,570 --> 00:06:10,230 Speaker 5: you know, and he realized he was done. And I 130 00:06:10,270 --> 00:06:12,589 Speaker 5: won that tie break, won in four tie breaks. And 131 00:06:12,610 --> 00:06:14,550 Speaker 5: so I'm leaving the court, you know, crowd went crazy. 132 00:06:14,570 --> 00:06:16,890 Speaker 5: They didn't like John. He's a brash American, et cetera, 133 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,529 Speaker 5: et cetera, you know. And as I'm leaving the court, 134 00:06:20,770 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 5: you'd think I'd be thinking about just being number two 135 00:06:23,690 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 5: in the world, my rankings going up, good prize money, 136 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:26,900 Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. 137 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,340 Speaker 2: But no, I was just thinking about. 138 00:06:29,020 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 5: The feeling I had as an 18-year-old having no clue 139 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 5: about life really and about where I was going and 140 00:06:35,779 --> 00:06:38,340 Speaker 5: would I one day know what I'm doing. And that 141 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 5: sense of fulfillment, I've never had anything professionally as much 142 00:06:41,540 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 5: as that in my life than I had that moment 143 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:45,339 Speaker 5: when I walked off that court. 144 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 4: Incredible. 145 00:06:46,950 --> 00:06:49,409 Speaker 3: A major premise of your book, of course, is that 146 00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:52,409 Speaker 3: by mastering clay, you can master all surfaces. 147 00:06:52,690 --> 00:06:53,070 Speaker 2: Correct. 148 00:06:53,330 --> 00:06:54,230 Speaker 3: Why is that the case? 149 00:06:54,570 --> 00:06:58,339 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a little controversial and probably a little upsetting 150 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,380 Speaker 5: for the fast court players who would want to challenge 151 00:07:02,420 --> 00:07:05,300 Speaker 5: that because they think, well, just because I'm a serve volley, 152 00:07:05,339 --> 00:07:07,260 Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm doing. 153 00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:10,890 Speaker 5: And look, the Sampras's and all those guys, the Becker's 154 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:13,890 Speaker 5: and all those guys, Kashi, et cetera, et cetera. I'm 155 00:07:13,930 --> 00:07:17,110 Speaker 5: not saying they weren't great players. But I do think 156 00:07:17,150 --> 00:07:19,230 Speaker 5: there's a gap in your knowledge if you can kind 157 00:07:19,270 --> 00:07:22,810 Speaker 5: of get away with serve volleying on any court because 158 00:07:22,890 --> 00:07:25,390 Speaker 5: you don't really have to learn the all-court game. I mean, 159 00:07:25,890 --> 00:07:27,430 Speaker 5: if you're going to serve volley like Pat Cash, why 160 00:07:27,470 --> 00:07:29,730 Speaker 5: do you need to learn how to be a great 161 00:07:29,770 --> 00:07:30,330 Speaker 5: all-round player? 162 00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:31,370 Speaker 2: So I kind of get that. 163 00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 5: But we're talking about kind of more of a deeper 164 00:07:37,100 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 5: Eastern look at this and what is the holistic view 165 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,380 Speaker 5: of the sport. And I think that having been able 166 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 5: to go through those seven years of learning an art 167 00:07:46,270 --> 00:07:49,940 Speaker 5: that I didn't have, it does help a lot, I think, 168 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:55,180 Speaker 5: for your holistic approach to the game. And then when 169 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 5: you retire and you're coaching because you've gone through that 170 00:07:58,020 --> 00:08:01,770 Speaker 5: whole process and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses in 171 00:08:01,810 --> 00:08:03,970 Speaker 5: their game. And as a coach, you need to match 172 00:08:04,030 --> 00:08:05,890 Speaker 5: that with the surface that they're playing. 173 00:08:05,930 --> 00:08:07,270 Speaker 2: And so I'm. 174 00:08:07,490 --> 00:08:10,570 Speaker 5: Not a great fan of players who are not good 175 00:08:10,610 --> 00:08:11,070 Speaker 5: on clay. 176 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:12,110 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. 177 00:08:14,310 --> 00:08:17,290 Speaker 3: You described earlier that you learned from watching Nastassi and 178 00:08:17,570 --> 00:08:19,510 Speaker 3: also in your book you talk about Bjorn Borg. More 179 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 3: recently we've had, of course, Rafael Nadal. Who are some 180 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,220 Speaker 3: of the other great players that provide lessons in how 181 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,420 Speaker 3: to compete on a clay court? 182 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,940 Speaker 5: Well, look, Rafa and Bjorn Borg are far and away 183 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,740 Speaker 5: the two grandmasters, we can call them, of chess because 184 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,699 Speaker 5: clay is chess at the end of the day. Hard 185 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 5: court is drafts. I mean, they're quite different games. One 186 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 5: is linear chess. and one is angular. One has nuances, 187 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 5: one does not. So a clay court is a chessboard. 188 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,980 Speaker 5: So the grandmasters are Rafael Nadal and Bjorn Borg. Next 189 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,130 Speaker 5: in line will be Carlos Alcaraz. It was almost a 190 00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:57,750 Speaker 5: miracle he didn't win the French last year, and he 191 00:08:57,790 --> 00:09:00,290 Speaker 5: will win it this year. I mean, unless something amazing happens. 192 00:09:00,309 --> 00:09:03,069 Speaker 5: He's that good, this guy on clay, right? This guy 193 00:09:03,130 --> 00:09:06,740 Speaker 5: is the real deal. He's got it all. He could 194 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,579 Speaker 5: win 10 Roland Garros. I mean, we're not saying 14, like, 195 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,479 Speaker 5: Rafa but he's for me he's far and away the 196 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,500 Speaker 5: best player on clay so right now so um I 197 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:19,450 Speaker 5: you know the last few years I've been rolling grass 198 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:21,910 Speaker 5: I go and watch Al Graz because I just it 199 00:09:21,950 --> 00:09:23,650 Speaker 5: brings me joy to see a guy doing what he's 200 00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:25,590 Speaker 5: doing the drop shots the angles the mixing of the 201 00:09:25,630 --> 00:09:29,890 Speaker 5: power with the finesse um his all-court mastery grew up 202 00:09:29,929 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 5: in Spain he he's not linear Yannick Sin is linear 203 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,860 Speaker 5: great player but linear Al Graz is not there's a. 204 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,940 Speaker 1: Difference You've said a lot of things that related to 205 00:09:40,059 --> 00:09:42,980 Speaker 1: chats we've had recently with other people, particularly talking about clay. 206 00:09:43,020 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: I don't think Todd Woodbridge will be unhappy with me 207 00:09:45,059 --> 00:09:47,250 Speaker 1: saying this, but he said when he was developing his 208 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:50,490 Speaker 1: game that he wanted to play in a way that 209 00:09:50,510 --> 00:09:53,370 Speaker 1: would lead to success at Wimbledon because Australians grew up, obviously, 210 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:54,809 Speaker 1: with that connection with Wimbledon. 211 00:09:54,830 --> 00:09:55,829 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a Wimbledon fan. 212 00:09:55,950 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, a Wimbledon fan, a grass corner fan. 213 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: And so he kind of said, well, I want the 214 00:10:01,820 --> 00:10:04,260 Speaker 1: shots that will lead to success at Wimbledon, even if 215 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: maybe his game was more suited to clay as a teenager. 216 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,300 Speaker 1: He wanted success at Wimbledon. But Viv and I spoke 217 00:10:10,340 --> 00:10:12,580 Speaker 1: to Sam Stoza, was it last week or the week before? 218 00:10:12,780 --> 00:10:15,890 Speaker 1: And she said that when she moved into commentary for 219 00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:18,689 Speaker 1: channel nine. She just says clay for her as just 220 00:10:18,730 --> 00:10:21,030 Speaker 1: the one, she just loves watching it. She loves the strategy. 221 00:10:21,070 --> 00:10:23,429 Speaker 1: She said all the things that you said and how like, um, 222 00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:25,750 Speaker 1: beautiful clay court tennis is to watch. And I just, 223 00:10:26,370 --> 00:10:29,630 Speaker 1: that is not as much of the Australian perspective. You 224 00:10:29,670 --> 00:10:32,630 Speaker 1: and Sam seem a bit distinct in that you love 225 00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:34,500 Speaker 1: clay court tennis and Roland Garros. Whereas a lot of 226 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: Australians remember Ash Barty used to say one more week 227 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,620 Speaker 1: on clay is a week closer to grass. Like there's 228 00:10:39,660 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: that Australian slam and it was their first slam. Yeah. 229 00:10:42,290 --> 00:10:45,150 Speaker 1: Australians haven't traditionally, you say on the back of your book, 230 00:10:45,210 --> 00:10:48,329 Speaker 1: we don't traditionally pay as much attention to clay court tennis. 231 00:10:48,610 --> 00:10:50,970 Speaker 4: Why is that? Why aren't more Australians captivated by it? 232 00:10:51,270 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 5: Well, we have a deep, I guess, gap in our 233 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 5: history in the fact that we don't have great clay 234 00:10:57,059 --> 00:10:59,780 Speaker 5: courts in Australia. And in fact, there's a guy called 235 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 5: Morgan Young in Melbourne right now is converting onto car 236 00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 5: into real European clay. 237 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:05,900 Speaker 2: This has never happened in over 100 years. So we 238 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,300 Speaker 2: grew up on Onto car, the thing is they're an 239 00:11:11,370 --> 00:11:12,470 Speaker 2: inferior form of clay. 240 00:11:12,490 --> 00:11:13,970 Speaker 4: Yeah, can you describe the differences? 241 00:11:13,990 --> 00:11:15,750 Speaker 5: Well, clay is from the ground. Onto car is from 242 00:11:15,790 --> 00:11:18,590 Speaker 5: crushed rock. So there's a difference, you see. So it's 243 00:11:18,929 --> 00:11:23,449 Speaker 5: not as smooth. It doesn't have the base. It's just 244 00:11:23,510 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 5: a very inferior clay court. You get bad bounces. In Europe, 245 00:11:26,820 --> 00:11:30,020 Speaker 5: you rarely get a bad bounce. It's much finer, the surface. 246 00:11:30,340 --> 00:11:33,470 Speaker 5: American clay is also very good. So we have a gap. And, 247 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,180 Speaker 5: of course, as soon as the weather gets better, we 248 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 5: start playing on grass. And all of country Australia was 249 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,460 Speaker 5: basically grass or asphalt. 250 00:11:39,940 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: And a lot of our champions came from the bush, you. 251 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,020 Speaker 5: Know, Rod Laver and all the greats came from Roy Emerson, 252 00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. So the rest of the world 253 00:11:47,660 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 5: grows up on clay and we don't. So we've got 254 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 5: to have this catch-up. We don't have that in our background. 255 00:11:51,740 --> 00:11:53,820 Speaker 5: So we have to learn how to play on clay. 256 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,340 Speaker 5: And it takes at least five years to do that. 257 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 5: And a lot of players, you know, Pat Cash included, 258 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,010 Speaker 5: were not prepared to do that. As soon as they're 259 00:12:01,030 --> 00:12:02,890 Speaker 5: out of the French straight to the grass, you know, 260 00:12:03,090 --> 00:12:05,150 Speaker 5: even back in a play on a cow pad, he 261 00:12:05,170 --> 00:12:07,270 Speaker 5: could play on a cricket oval to get ready for Wimbledon. 262 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:10,020 Speaker 2: And even umpire, I mean, that was hard for me 263 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: when I went first. They're calling the score in French 264 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: the first time I went there. 265 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 5: Did you know what the score was? 266 00:12:16,700 --> 00:12:18,700 Speaker 2: No. Gabe said match 6-2, 6-1. I got that. 267 00:12:19,540 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: How pleased have you been to see clay courts appearing 268 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,939 Speaker 3: in academies and certain clubs throughout Australia? 269 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,730 Speaker 2: Yeah. Very happy to say. Tennis Australia really drove that. 270 00:12:27,770 --> 00:12:31,050 Speaker 5: I mean, I jumped on board myself with the Western 271 00:12:31,070 --> 00:12:33,050 Speaker 5: Australian Institute of Sport when I was helping them. I 272 00:12:33,950 --> 00:12:37,250 Speaker 5: helped put in two hard, true American clay courts into Perth, 273 00:12:37,290 --> 00:12:37,790 Speaker 5: which was great. 274 00:12:38,170 --> 00:12:39,390 Speaker 2: There'd never been a clay court in Perth. 275 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,700 Speaker 4: I mean, ever. It's just grass and hard over there, right? 276 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 277 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 5: But they've never had a Davis Cup representative until Matt 278 00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 5: Epton came along, right? 279 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 2: You know, so first time. So I think it's kind 280 00:12:50,540 --> 00:12:50,870 Speaker 2: of linked. 281 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:52,530 Speaker 5: So I really wanted to have clay over there, so 282 00:12:53,130 --> 00:12:55,630 Speaker 5: I helped with that and then, Tennis Australia did a 283 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:58,050 Speaker 5: really good job putting in clay courts here in Melbourne Park. 284 00:12:58,070 --> 00:12:59,310 Speaker 2: It was an amazing development. 285 00:12:59,330 --> 00:13:01,550 Speaker 5: And when I came down to help the Victorian juniors here, 286 00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:03,949 Speaker 5: I would only go on the clay court. 287 00:13:04,230 --> 00:13:07,590 Speaker 1: You mentioned the 82 Australian Open semi-final, but then hearing 288 00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:11,350 Speaker 1: you talk about beating McEnroe. French Open and how that 289 00:13:11,390 --> 00:13:14,809 Speaker 1: was when you felt the most control on court. Would 290 00:13:14,830 --> 00:13:17,170 Speaker 1: you say that making the fourth round of that Roland Garros, 291 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:19,630 Speaker 1: having beaten the world number two, was a bigger career 292 00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:20,860 Speaker 1: highlight for you than the semis? 293 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 5: No, the semis of a slam you've got to go 294 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,060 Speaker 5: with because semis are semi. 295 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,100 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the slams are slams. 296 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 5: But no, I didn't have the joy playing on grass 297 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 5: or hard court that I. 298 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 2: Had on clay. 299 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:33,940 Speaker 5: So when I, you know, I won't set foot on 300 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,100 Speaker 5: a hard court now. I mean, if I'm coaching this 301 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 5: train up and I'll set foot on it, okay, you've 302 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:39,870 Speaker 5: got to hit some balls. But I won't set foot 303 00:13:39,910 --> 00:13:41,250 Speaker 5: on it because I don't get the joy out of 304 00:13:41,290 --> 00:13:43,730 Speaker 5: it that I get on, you know, when I coach 305 00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:46,390 Speaker 5: here in Melbourne, I won't coach. We'll not coach on 306 00:13:46,429 --> 00:13:49,860 Speaker 5: a hard court. I'll go to clay because that's where 307 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 5: you learn the game. That's where you learn to develop 308 00:13:52,179 --> 00:13:54,979 Speaker 5: your game. So juniors out there, get on clay if 309 00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 5: you want to be a player. I mean, and once 310 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 5: you learn all those skills, it will transfer to every surface. 311 00:13:59,940 --> 00:14:02,300 Speaker 5: There's no problem playing on any court once you. 312 00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:04,030 Speaker 2: Know how to play on clay. The reverse is not true. 313 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:05,030 Speaker 4: Okay. 314 00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:08,140 Speaker 5: And that goes back to the original question. because you 315 00:14:08,179 --> 00:14:11,260 Speaker 5: don't learn the nuances, the subtleties. You don't know how 316 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:12,970 Speaker 5: to play chess. You know how to play drafts. 317 00:14:13,070 --> 00:14:13,569 Speaker 2: Big difference. 318 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:16,590 Speaker 3: Paul, you've played on some of the world's most beautiful 319 00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:17,510 Speaker 3: clay courts. 320 00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:20,790 Speaker 2: What are some of your favourites? Well, yeah, Monte Carlo's 321 00:14:20,830 --> 00:14:21,210 Speaker 2: not bad. 322 00:14:21,270 --> 00:14:25,070 Speaker 5: You know, where it's located, it's right overlooking the Mediterranean, 323 00:14:25,130 --> 00:14:25,790 Speaker 5: which is so. 324 00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:27,710 Speaker 2: The Cote d'Azur, which is blue, obviously. 325 00:14:28,450 --> 00:14:31,710 Speaker 5: The clubhouse just sits on the cliffs, overlooking Centre Court, 326 00:14:31,830 --> 00:14:32,930 Speaker 5: overlooking the Mediterranean. 327 00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:35,470 Speaker 2: And I think the greatest. 328 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,510 Speaker 5: Dining experience you can have is to sit on the 329 00:14:38,570 --> 00:14:42,750 Speaker 5: terrace in Monte Carlo, the white tablecloths, the waiters dressed impeccably, 330 00:14:42,850 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 5: and have a meal overlooking Centre Court, overlooking the Mediterranean. 331 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 5: I took my wife there last year for the first time. 332 00:14:48,820 --> 00:14:52,500 Speaker 5: We went there and it was just something you've got 333 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:53,830 Speaker 5: to tick off on your bucket list. 334 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:54,580 Speaker 2: If you love tennis. 335 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:55,460 Speaker 4: It'd be a work trip for us, Viv. 336 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 337 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,940 Speaker 5: You know, it doesn't have to be that. And tournament time, 338 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,580 Speaker 5: you'll have trouble getting a table. But the rest of 339 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,170 Speaker 5: the year, no. And, you know, and drop my name, da-da-da. But, 340 00:15:05,550 --> 00:15:07,590 Speaker 5: you know, and look, Mac and I won the doubles there, 341 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:11,710 Speaker 5: which was great. And, you know, our name's on the marble. 342 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:16,060 Speaker 5: It's in marble there at Monte Carlo Country Club, which 343 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,940 Speaker 5: is just a beautiful, beautiful place. 344 00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:22,870 Speaker 2: It's the headquarters of the ATP in Europe. So. You know, 345 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:25,350 Speaker 2: you can have lunch there and Sitsipas and Paula Badosa 346 00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:26,130 Speaker 2: are on the next table. 347 00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:28,210 Speaker 5: I mean, that's any time of the year. Look, it's 348 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:31,500 Speaker 5: a pretty cool place. So that's that one. I mean, 349 00:15:31,510 --> 00:15:35,580 Speaker 5: Roland Garros, obviously, Court Central is amazing because that's the mecca. 350 00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: Of clay court tennis. 351 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 5: Then you've got Court Pietrangelo in Rome, which is the 352 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 5: old centre court, which is where I made my Davis 353 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,740 Speaker 5: Cup debut against Adriano Panata, who'd won the French on 354 00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:47,070 Speaker 5: that court. which is now not because they built a 355 00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:49,070 Speaker 5: new centre court. The old centre court, they took the 356 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 5: top off it. 357 00:15:49,650 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 4: I was going to say, it's quite small, isn't it now? 358 00:15:51,410 --> 00:15:53,550 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, they've got the statues all around, which were mid-level, 359 00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:58,530 Speaker 5: and now it's just the most beautiful outside. It's the 360 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,940 Speaker 5: most beautiful non-centre court in the world. There is no 361 00:16:01,980 --> 00:16:05,260 Speaker 5: doubt about that. It is just so amazing. 362 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,109 Speaker 2: Of course, you're in Rome and da-da-da-da, you know. It's 363 00:16:09,370 --> 00:16:10,830 Speaker 2: just a pleasure and I mean, I love it. 364 00:16:11,050 --> 00:16:13,090 Speaker 5: I loved playing on that court and I love it 365 00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:15,990 Speaker 5: when I'm coaching a player that's playing on that court 366 00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:19,250 Speaker 5: and it's just very, very special. Then you get the 367 00:16:19,290 --> 00:16:20,860 Speaker 5: other little gems around the world. I mean, I was 368 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,540 Speaker 5: on holiday with my family in Croatia and on the 369 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:24,700 Speaker 5: island of Hvar. 370 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,500 Speaker 2: Do they have tennis courts? I'm not sure. Maybe they're 371 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: up the hill. I think there is. So I just 372 00:16:27,740 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: go up with my son. He's only eight years old. 373 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:31,300 Speaker 2: Take the rackets. 374 00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:35,410 Speaker 5: All the courts, they're locked. 375 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: There's nobody there. But This place is overlooking the, is 376 00:16:40,020 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: it the Adriatic? 377 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 378 00:16:41,660 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: I'll stand corrected. But I think the Adriatic, I mean, 379 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,860 Speaker 2: this club is just sitting on a hill. No one there. 380 00:16:46,140 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 4: But all the gates open. 381 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:49,850 Speaker 5: But I know from when I was a kid, you know, 382 00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:52,750 Speaker 5: if there's eight courts and they're all supposed to be locked, 383 00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:53,730 Speaker 5: you check every lock. 384 00:16:53,850 --> 00:16:56,710 Speaker 2: There's normally one gate that's going to be open, right? 385 00:16:56,770 --> 00:17:00,730 Speaker 2: And sure enough, sure enough. I think it was court five. Whatever. 386 00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:03,410 Speaker 2: Sure enough, one side. In we go. In we go. Rackets, balls. 387 00:17:03,470 --> 00:17:05,390 Speaker 5: In we go and play with this beautiful view. So 388 00:17:05,410 --> 00:17:06,810 Speaker 5: this is another little gem. 389 00:17:07,470 --> 00:17:08,060 Speaker 2: That pops up. 390 00:17:08,859 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 5: The Rockers Club in Dusseldorf, where the Old Nations Cup was, 391 00:17:11,780 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 5: the World Team Cup, was, I mean, just a beautiful 392 00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:16,459 Speaker 5: centre court. It was so amazing that this tree that 393 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:20,220 Speaker 5: had been there 150 years that overlooked the court, and 394 00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 5: they built the grandstand around the tree because they didn't 395 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 5: want to lose the tree. So that's really green behaviour, 396 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:29,980 Speaker 5: and it's such a beautiful setting. You know, so these 397 00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:33,669 Speaker 5: are examples. So to be honest, any clay court, is 398 00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:36,310 Speaker 5: beautiful in itself. It's intrinsically beautiful. 399 00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:37,910 Speaker 4: They do sound particularly beautiful, though. 400 00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:38,189 Speaker 2: They do. 401 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:40,750 Speaker 5: Yeah, Trangelli, we've heard a lot about him. And the beautiful, 402 00:17:40,810 --> 00:17:43,949 Speaker 5: rich colour, the red colour, and the way you can slide. See, 403 00:17:43,970 --> 00:17:45,230 Speaker 5: you can't slide on a hard court. 404 00:17:45,390 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 2: So you're missing something. 405 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 5: I mean, you can plant on a clay court and 406 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:52,940 Speaker 5: rip a ball if you want to slide, plant, play. 407 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:55,389 Speaker 5: On a hard court, you plan and play. You run 408 00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:57,330 Speaker 5: through the ball, whatever. But you can't slide on a 409 00:17:57,350 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 5: hard court. I mean, Djokovic and, you know, Sam Kim-Kleiser, 410 00:17:59,940 --> 00:18:02,219 Speaker 5: we just do little slides, right? But you can't do 411 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 5: that beautiful long slide where you complete it, plan, switch 412 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,139 Speaker 5: your power from the planted leg to the other one 413 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,780 Speaker 5: and be off to the next shot like Rafa does. 414 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:11,180 Speaker 2: I mean, he. 415 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:13,850 Speaker 5: Finishes his slide at the very moment he transfers his 416 00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:17,070 Speaker 5: weight to rip the ball and then his forehand swing 417 00:18:17,109 --> 00:18:17,610 Speaker 5: waiting for. 418 00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:20,510 Speaker 2: The next one. I mean, that's beauty, okay? This is 419 00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:21,030 Speaker 2: just beauty. 420 00:18:21,470 --> 00:18:23,150 Speaker 1: So you've gotten into the weeds of kind of like, yeah, 421 00:18:23,230 --> 00:18:25,340 Speaker 1: moving on clay and kind of how the game– well, 422 00:18:25,619 --> 00:18:27,900 Speaker 1: I guess there have always been tenets of clay court tennis. 423 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,379 Speaker 1: But since you played and you watch clay court tennis now, 424 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 1: has it evolved? Like is it different now competing on clay? 425 00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,370 Speaker 5: Yeah, it is different now because of the equipment, because 426 00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:38,370 Speaker 5: you can generate so much power that you can hit 427 00:18:38,430 --> 00:18:40,669 Speaker 5: winners from anywhere else in the court. In the old days, 428 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:42,270 Speaker 5: you had to work much harder to win a point 429 00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:45,690 Speaker 5: on clay because it was harder to hit a winner because– 430 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,379 Speaker 5: The rackets, especially the wood racket here, you just couldn't 431 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 5: hit winners, right, with Borg. I mean, it was very, 432 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,620 Speaker 5: very tough. So it was more of a war of attrition. 433 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,609 Speaker 5: But now you look at Alcaraz or Rafa, they can 434 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,650 Speaker 5: hit a winner from anywhere, which is amazing. 435 00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:01,330 Speaker 2: So it's a faster form of the game. 436 00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:04,350 Speaker 5: So I find it by far the most interesting to 437 00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:07,190 Speaker 5: watch is clay court tennis because it's not as slow 438 00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:09,910 Speaker 5: as it used to be because the technology has. 439 00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: Made the points a lot quicker. 440 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,179 Speaker 5: And, in fact, the average point on clay now, I mean, 441 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,850 Speaker 5: Rafa's point– Interesting stat with Rafa is when you play him, 442 00:19:18,910 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 5: his points are shorter on clay than on other surfaces, 443 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,780 Speaker 5: and you might ask why. Well, the reason is is 444 00:19:25,820 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 5: because his forehand is such a weapon on clay that 445 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 5: you live in such fear of once he gets to forehand, 446 00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:34,620 Speaker 5: he's going to take control of the point, that you 447 00:19:34,660 --> 00:19:36,629 Speaker 5: have to go for something very quickly in the point 448 00:19:36,750 --> 00:19:39,369 Speaker 5: to try and end it because he's going to strangle 449 00:19:39,410 --> 00:19:41,550 Speaker 5: you with his forehand because he's so dominant. 450 00:19:42,170 --> 00:19:44,190 Speaker 2: In the end, on clay, the best shot wins. 451 00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 5: So in the end, Nadal wins because he's got the 452 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,149 Speaker 5: best shot in the history of the game, which is 453 00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 5: his forehand. There is no better shot in the history 454 00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 5: of tennis. That's why he's won 14 Roland Garrosas. 455 00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:55,370 Speaker 2: Don't write him off. 456 00:19:58,790 --> 00:20:01,550 Speaker 3: Don't write Rafa off, who is kind of returning to 457 00:20:01,590 --> 00:20:02,950 Speaker 3: form this week in Madrid. 458 00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:04,010 Speaker 4: Yeah, he certainly is. 459 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:07,770 Speaker 3: I loved hearing Paul talk about the past, present and 460 00:20:08,050 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: future greats of clay court tennis. 461 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:10,740 Speaker 4: And you're right. 462 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,660 Speaker 1: And it was such an in-depth chat that we'll actually 463 00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:14,940 Speaker 1: bring you a part two of our chat with McNamee 464 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: on a later date on the sit down. And we'll 465 00:20:17,540 --> 00:20:19,659 Speaker 1: be back again next Monday. But in the meantime, you 466 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: can listen to John and the team this Thursday on 467 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: the AO Show Weekly. 468 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 3: Details for how to contact us are in the show notes. 469 00:20:25,869 --> 00:20:28,389 Speaker 3: And please remember, subscribe, rate and review. 470 00:20:28,780 --> 00:20:29,470 Speaker 4: See you next week, boo. 471 00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:30,489 Speaker 3: Look forward to it, man.