1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to mind for his Fridays with my amazing 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: friend jad Patrick. You can find more of him at 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: jad Patrick Neutropathy on Instagram. You're going to say your 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: Facebook handle because I have no idea how to say it. 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: Jud Patrick. 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: Natural therapies have fun diciphoning the two there, but I 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: always use Insta to get ahold of him, and that 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: I will be sharing this on Insta anyway. So I'm 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: pumped for this theme because it is so close to 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: home for me and I have through years literally of 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: therapy and different types of therapists, like specific eating disorder therapists, 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: have had quite a rocky road with this one. It's 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: been a probably a ten year process for me. So 14 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: the topic is body image, and I know that it's 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: a bomb like, it's a pretty heavy topic and umbrella, 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: and so thank you for agreeing to talk to this topic. 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: First of all, let's just make note how common is 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: people that have got eating disorders body image problems, body dysmorphia, 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: which is where you see yourself differently to how you 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: really are emotional eating, binge eating. 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, first I'd like to say I'm certainly 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 2: not an expert on this topic, and if you're struggling 23 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: with these sorts of issues, it's so so important to 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 2: get qualified help. Absolutely, but I think it's it's a 25 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 2: worthy discussion for sure. Eating disorder statistics in facts. Luckily 26 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 2: I just brought this up on the computer just before. 27 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: I need to give that away. 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: Not very good with numbers, they don't come to me. 29 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: So I reckon it'll be more than these stats. I 30 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: reckon it's like more than one in two. 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's a difference between say, having eating 32 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: eating in a way that's problematic and driven by behaviors 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: that are maybe unhealthy, versus having a diagnosed eating disorder, 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: and you know, diagnosed eating disorder, like any mental health disorder, 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: is when the disorder reaches a point that it's interfering 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: with your quality of life, so your ability to maintain relationships, 37 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: to engage in normal day to day activities, work, social events, 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: et cetera. So there's sort of this big gray area 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: between someone who's so sick they meet the criteria for 40 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: an eating disorder versus someone who's whose quality of life 41 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: is still being impacted by disturbing thoughts about my body 42 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: should be this way, or I've eaten too much or 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 2: I need to go to the gym to burn off 44 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: x amount of calories or whatever. So one thing to 45 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: really point out is anorexi and evosa, which is like literally, 46 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: you know, starving yourself to death pulsively, has one of 47 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: the highest mortality rates of any mental illness. So people 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: literally die from this, and there is a high rate 49 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: of suicide as well. So talking about some heavy stuff 50 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 2: in this in this episode, so you know, be mindful 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: of that if you're feeling a bit vulnerable or whatnot. 52 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: Up to ero point five to three point seven percent 53 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 2: of women will suffer from anrexia at some point in 54 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 2: their lives and one percent of female adolescents of anorexia, 55 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: so that's medically defined and rex Yeah. 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: And also a lot of people probably go undiagnosed. 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 2: Lots of people would go undiagnosed. The other thing I 58 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: think important point to pick to make mention of this 59 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: is not universal across human populations, so it's it's not 60 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: sort of like something that's kind of entirely sort of 61 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: genetically driven or just a thing that you know, one 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 2: percent of women kind of go through and men that 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: we should point that out as well, that some men 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: do suffer from these eating sorts as well, and it's 65 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: very underdiagnosed and under explored in the research. But in 66 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: cultures that don't put such an emphasis on thinness, an 67 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: are xi as far less common. So that's an important 68 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 2: point to remember. We can treat this in a medical way, 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: we can think about it in medical terms and diagnosis 70 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: and treatment and whatever, but there is also a big 71 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: sociological factor here that as a culture, and it's mostly 72 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: through marketing products, we've come to a point where we 73 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 2: are we're marketing an image that is doesn't exist. You know, 74 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 2: the image of women we see in you know, Instagram 75 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: magazine covers. It's touched up, it's filtered, it as edited. 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 2: We all know this, but we're all still sort of 77 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: seduced by it totally. 78 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know that there's like a movement with 79 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: famous Instagram people that have had ribs removed to make 80 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: their they're kind of like that that kind of like 81 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: hour glass bit more defined. Wow, so they've got this 82 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: tiny winnie waste, But I mean, what impact is that 83 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: going to have on your health? 84 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: Far out? Yeah? So I guess kind of mind blown 85 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: right now. I guess, well, this is definitely not no no. 86 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: But but that's how full on it is, you know 87 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: for some people, and I think you've hit the nail 88 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: on the head. Social media has got a lot to 89 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: this comes from I think stems from a lot of 90 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: social media, a lot of fame, the kind of like 91 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: fame culture and the celebrity culture. And I also know 92 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm working in media. I feel a sense of pressure 93 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: when I have a shoot or a gig coming up. 94 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: You'll see me. I'll come in and be like, I'm 95 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: gonna do cleans today or all right, you know I've 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: got a shoot in three weeks and you'll be like, 97 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: calm down, you look really healthy. What are you worried about? 98 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: But the I guess what I want to touch on today, 99 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: and it's it's what you've just spoken to already. But yes, 100 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: my history is anarexia. I remember I was as low 101 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: as forty seven kilos and I had it was to 102 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: the point that my mum, who's a nurse, was like, 103 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: TAKELF to a hospital if this goes any further. So 104 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I knew that it was at the point. I remember 105 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: I had an event a Crown played him in Melbourne 106 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: where I had to walk up I know, like fifty stairs, 107 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: and it was like a huge, like a big ball 108 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: gown kind of event, and I was going up the 109 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: stairs in my heart, I kept pain in my heart, 110 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh God, oh God, i'h go 111 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: like something's wrong. Got upstairs, and because I felt like 112 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: there was something wrong, I automatically just ate all the 113 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: food that was in front of me because I was like, 114 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: something's wrong. And I was completely disconnected from myself. And 115 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: I got home and my ankles had completely swollen to 116 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: three times their size and moms like, your kidneys are 117 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: starting to shut down or react like and obviously I 118 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: had controlled everything I'd eaten except for that one experience. 119 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: And that's what it was when she was like, if 120 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: you don't take yourself to hospital, I will how terrifying. 121 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: So that's just so people can hear how I'm not 122 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: just like saying, yeah, I controlled meeting for a week 123 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: like that was probably went on for two or so 124 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: years of dipping in and out of it, but being 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: that kind of like really wanting to be that sub 126 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: fifty kilos, like I know that people listening and girls 127 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: that diet, you've kind of got this number in your 128 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: head which doesn't correlate to your health, your muscle mass, 129 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: you know at all, and also as a woman, like 130 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: we fluctuate with holding fluid at different times of the month. 131 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: So it's really not a marker yet it's still celebrated 132 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: as a marker or used as a marker for where 133 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: you're at, wait wise. But the two topics I thought 134 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: you might be interested in shedding some light on is 135 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: so often I've done a fair bit of research into 136 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: eating disorders because again I'm selfish and I wanted to 137 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: understand myself better and understand why I was doing it. 138 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: So often it is linked to control, which I think 139 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: you just kind of touched on. And then when we 140 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: I imagine like the control is almost going to seep 141 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: into other topics we've got, like the stress and the anxiety. 142 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: It's like this weird need for control that might come 143 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: down to that like survival brain protection, and it's this weird. 144 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: So the two topics someone talks to you about it 145 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: one control and then the second thing is as I 146 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: was coming out of my eating disorder, I binged a lot. 147 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: Remember I used to JAD and I worked together. I 148 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: would fluctuate so much so quickly because I'd either be 149 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: dieting extremely or literally binge eating everything in sight and 150 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: feeling so much shame around that. And I think that 151 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: there's something in the addition. 152 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: As that process was going on, so many people felt 153 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: the need to continually comment on that as well, which 154 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 2: is something that men don't experience in the world as much. 155 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: That your body is open to criticism and commentary from 156 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: every fucker that walks by you. And this is this 157 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: is a social justice issue as well as being a 158 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: personal or medical issue. Is the fact that people think 159 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 2: it's okay to cast judgment, assumptions, etc. About women bodies 160 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: all the time. 161 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, all the time. I'm so glad you said that. 162 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: It's like those you watch an interview with like a 163 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: really powerful female actress, and the interview will be like, oh, 164 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: you did such a great role as Catwoman, how did 165 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: you get in shape? And often the actress will turn 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: around like if they've done the work on themselves, and 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: they'll go, did you ask the male actor in this 168 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: movie how he got in shape? Because it's not fair 169 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: if you're just asking me that. 170 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, which I mean. You know, increasingly that's also 171 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 2: becoming the case for male actors as well. You know, 172 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 2: they want to be on the front of men's health 173 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: just as much as women want to be on the 174 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: front of you know. Also it's of other magazine, So 175 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: it's increasing in as a problem. But I think you 176 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: know that pressure there cannot be ignored. That's the elephant 177 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: constantly in the room. As a culture, we need to 178 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 2: change if we're going to change. How many young women 179 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: are dying from these conditions, and if you think, if 180 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: you look at the statistics and I can't bring them 181 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: up right now, the amount of women dying from eating 182 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: related disorders is often in excess of people dying from 183 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 2: problems related to ab city. So our obsessive, constant obsession 184 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: with fatness in our culture is a problem too, especially 185 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: seeing as there's not really any solid evidence based method 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: to lose weight longer than about you know, one to 187 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: five years, ninety percent of people will gain the weight back, 188 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: and a proportion of those will gain more weight back 189 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: and develop an eating disorder. So our recommendations also need 190 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 2: to change, and our whole thinking around the link between 191 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: health and weight and wellness has got to be really 192 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: critically examined by the medical profession as well as on 193 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: a social level, advertising level. All that sort of thing. 194 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: It's a big issue. 195 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see why. I can see why you 196 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: feel like because this when you say it's not like 197 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: really your forte, I get that because it is almost 198 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: its own social issue. It's its own and it does 199 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: have a like definitely does have a mental component. 200 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 201 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's where I thought the addiction side would 202 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: be interesting, because I know, once I've made the choice 203 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: to binge or to go off the rails, I'm saying 204 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: in inverted commas, I know that from the moment that 205 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: that choice has been made in my mind. I can't 206 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: tell you how I've got in my car driven to 207 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: coals or were worse, bought all the marvelous creation and 208 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: all my favorite like Cabri Kremeggs. JAD knows I love 209 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: Cabri Kremeggs and all my favorite chocolates. And I won't 210 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: just get one, I'll get five and sat in the 211 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: car and had them faster than I could taste them. 212 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: So that, to me is an addictive behavior as opposed 213 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: to and I just thought, if you can speak a 214 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: bit too like to me, an addiction is almost what 215 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: you were calling like is it? Did you call it 216 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: like mindlessness? Like mine? Not mindfulness whatever. The opposite of mindfulness. 217 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: Was mindlessness I was referring, but yeah, more of the 218 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: wandering kind of mind. And I guess an addiction can 219 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: feel like your mind has been hijacked or your behaviors 220 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: being hijacked. And I guess in all of these sorts 221 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 2: of issues edition or binge eating or eating avoidance, which 222 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 2: is anorexia, often we're trying to avoid an experience and 223 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: internal experience, and that normally comes down to some sort 224 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 2: of feeling or thought, and the feeling right, the thought 225 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: might be if I don't do this, then I'm going 226 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: to get fat. Then if we unpack that fat, what 227 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 2: does fat mean? And that's the thing you know a 228 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: lot of people can start with, is what does that 229 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: mean to you? What does being fat mean to you? 230 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 2: What does the pull of gravity have to do with 231 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 2: your concept of self? And for a lot of people 232 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: that means they're not good enough. It'll speak to some 233 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: kind of core belief about themselves. If I am this, 234 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: then I am not good enough. 235 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: See my manager for years was skinny equal success. So 236 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: to me, that comes more back to the social image 237 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: of the what's being kind of like indoctrinated within us 238 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: of all these women are super successful and skinny, And 239 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: that was my kind of mantra of like, when I'm 240 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: under fifty kilos, I'm going to be on the front 241 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: cover of Women's Health, or when I'm under fifty kilos, 242 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to date this guy that I've got a 243 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: crush on. And the way that you touched on before 244 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: about how it can impact that you're living and your life. 245 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: I wouldn't date people because I was like, I can't 246 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: go out to that restaurant because I know I can't 247 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: get and I can't I can't get what I want 248 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: to eat, and I can't understand that I can't know 249 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: the calories that are in that food. Yes, And so 250 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: I wouldn't even do it. I wouldn't even date because 251 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: I was so petrified of being out of control, which 252 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: brings me my next question is like how much of 253 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: this is a control name. 254 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think control is a big part of it. 255 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: And there are plenty of people as well who have 256 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: eating disorders that aren't related necessarily to body ideals that 257 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 2: it is just this control thing. And if you think 258 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: about one of the earliest things we can kind of 259 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: control as kids is what goes in our mouths, we 260 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 2: don't have much control. So you know, from a sort 261 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: of my analytic kind of perspective, some of it comes 262 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: back to that sort of primal based kind of stuff 263 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: that we have some sense of control over. So if 264 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 2: our life is out of control, and you know, a 265 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: lot of life is left in the lap of the God, 266 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: so to speak, then at least I can can control this. 267 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: And there's research on stress management that's called sort of 268 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: quite paradoxical. If we feel when stress has a negative 269 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 2: impact on us, it's when we perceive we're out of 270 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 2: control of a situation and we don't have the resources 271 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 2: to meet the needs of the demands of the situation. 272 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 2: And paradoxically that's happening, and you find something else to 273 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 2: focus on that you are in control of and that 274 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: you do have a sense of agency over. That can 275 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: reduce the impact of stress in your life. So that's 276 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: a functional way of addressing the stress response. Where it 277 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: becomes dysfunctional is say you've got a background of trauma 278 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: in your life. Say you're facing difficulties in a relationship 279 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: and work, and where am I going? That's all stressing 280 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: me out. I have no control over that, I'm overwhelmed 281 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: by it. Unconsciously, we turn to something then that we 282 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: can feel a sense of control from, and that gives 283 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 2: us a little ping of dope, mean, like I'm doing something. 284 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: So if we can control our eating, if we control 285 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: our exercise, if we can calculate our calories, it gives 286 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 2: us this artificial sense of I'm in charge here and 287 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: I've got I've got this sort of covered. But it's 288 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: masking the background discomfort with the fact that there's things 289 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: in life beyond our control. And that's where things can 290 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: get kind of existential, in the sense that in life 291 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: there is a balance between things within our power and 292 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: things outside of our power, and maturing into understanding that 293 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: some things are outside of our control. We can control 294 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: the inputs into a situation, we can't necessarily control the outputs, 295 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: and you know, and eating and body image comes into 296 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 2: that as well. You know, you can focus on the 297 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: healthy behavior and not get so hung up on the outcome. 298 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: So cool, so fascinating, And I think what you said 299 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: at the very start about it being a sense of 300 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: like we were leaning towards like it being a sense 301 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: of like you're enough and your your worthiness, and for 302 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: me that that was a turning point from because when 303 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: you do, when it's common, when you come out of 304 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: it and sort of that, you then overeat because you 305 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: feel really guilty, like I've fucked it. Now start again tomorrow, 306 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: diet tomorrow. And when I got clear on like my 307 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: self worth, I was really comfortable going to a breaky 308 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: date and ordering off the menu, like ordering what I 309 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: knew I wanted to have that felt healthy. Like you 310 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: and I went to breakfast last week. You got like greens. 311 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: I got a detox bowl, do you know, and we 312 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: kind of celebrated a healthy meal together. 313 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 314 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: Whereas back in the day, because I would be like, oh, 315 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: I've got to go to this breakfast and I'd obsess 316 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: over it. I'd be like, oh, they're going to think 317 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: like and it's that I would always feel like I 318 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: was getting judged on what I was eating. I was like, Oh, 319 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: just you've got no control. Just have whatsever in front 320 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: of you and have it all. And then I'd kind 321 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: of like spiral from there. But having worked on and 322 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: through therapy, having worked on a sense of self worth, 323 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: I will now go to brecky and be like, oh, 324 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: this is what feels right for me today, and I. 325 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: Eat a bit more like intuitively. 326 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: And for nourishment, and I'm not really afraid. And I 327 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: used to say it's the clients when I practiced all 328 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: the time. Own it, own who you are, because it 329 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: actually reactivates your. 330 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: I think a sense of agency, Yeah, that's an important 331 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 2: part of it. I think as well as having at 332 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 2: least that perception of control is a big part of it. 333 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 2: So broadening your horizons and understanding where you have control 334 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 2: and influence, are not getting so hung up on the 335 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 2: minute details of things like calories, et cetera. 336 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: And what I also, I'm probably saying in quite of 337 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: a roundabout way, but also like the flip side of 338 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: being super controlled and then coming out of me this 339 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: or is almost like relinquishing control. And I think it's 340 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: finding that happy medium between the two where you like, 341 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: I know who I am. Like I had a business 342 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 1: meeting yesterday and some days I like to interminfast till 343 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: midday on coffee. And most of all laugh at me 344 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: when I say that, but I like it. It feels 345 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: good for me because I like to exercise in the 346 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: morning as well. And I had a business meeting and 347 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: it was a breakfast and I was like oh ah, 348 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: I am towitten fast today and they're like cool, no 349 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: worries and rewind a couple of years ago, I wouldn't 350 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: have been able to do that, to have the self 351 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: worth to go this is what's going to serve me 352 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: and nourish me most in this moment. 353 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And I think you know that's a big 354 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 2: part of it is is warning what's best for yourself 355 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: in the long term, and sometimes that can be hard 356 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 2: if we hate ourselves, and a lot of people go 357 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: through life hating themselves. So one of the little things 358 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: you can do is sort of think about the way 359 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 2: you're relating to food. Would I want this sort of 360 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 2: behavior for my daughter? Do I want my daughter to 361 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 2: have that sort of life? Or if no, then maybe 362 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 2: there's some questions around whether that's good for you. Would 363 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 2: someone who really cares about me want this for me? 364 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: What's this all in aid of? If I reach size whatever, 365 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: how does my behavior change then? What do I do differently? Then? 366 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 2: Is anything really stopping me now from doing that? Right now? 367 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 2: Apart from difficult feelings, difficult feelings that I'm not good enough, 368 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 2: that I'm too fat, that this is bulging out, that 369 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: this is too hairy, that this is too pointy, that 370 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: this is too bony, whatever. Think about what is it 371 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: I want to be doing with my life, what is 372 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 2: the sort of person I want to be? And does 373 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: Thinness actually relate to that at all? And if we 374 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: start to sort of shift the focus on what's important, 375 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 2: what's valuable, what's meaningful, it can take some of the 376 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 2: power out of that totally. 377 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I was getting at when 378 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: I was like, when I'm sitting in a cafe and 379 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: in a meeting that would usually be highly triggering for me. 380 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 1: And if I'm in this space of I'm on my 381 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: path and I love who I am and where I am, 382 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: and I'm honoring who I am and where I am, 383 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: then I find it very easy to navigate because I 384 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: know I'm coming from like this bigger picture as opposed 385 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: to being caught up in what if they think that 386 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: about me or the rumination that we were kind of 387 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 1: talking about. It's still and this is one thing for 388 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: people to know. Two things I wanted to mention about 389 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: any disorder stuff, and Jad's already said, you need a 390 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: therapist or you need someone that is a professional to 391 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: help you through this. I worked with someone that specialized 392 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 1: in eating disorders, and it didn't work for me. I 393 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: then worked with someone that didn't specifically, I didn't find 394 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: out until much later in our healing journey that he 395 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 1: did specialize in weight loss and eating disordered eating. He 396 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: didn't tell me that till about a year in. And 397 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: that's who I work with now with all of my 398 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: And some days I'll walk in for a therapy session, 399 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: I'm like, I've got to talk about food because I 400 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: was triggered at this time, this time, this time, And 401 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: some days I'll have a really shity to day and 402 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: I'll eat way too much and I'll feel like I've beinged, 403 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: even though I haven't to the capacity that I would 404 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: have like five years ago. So the first thing is 405 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: definitely see help. And you know within yourself if you 406 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: are struggling with this, and I know the percentage would 407 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: be so high. And I'm not talking about anorexia here, 408 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: I'm talking about disordered behavior around food and negative self 409 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: talk around body image mohia. And so I know that 410 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: I know that it is so, so so common. I 411 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: know that it's one of the most common things that 412 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: I get dms and instagrams and questions about and that's 413 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: why I'm passionate about speaking to this. Get help, get 414 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: a therapist, and then all of this mindful work will 415 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: be a really great tool that you have in your 416 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: toolkit to kind of like further and kind of I 417 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: think the two work in synergy. 418 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's a good point. You know, 419 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 2: the real work needs to happen with sort of a therapist, 420 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 2: but mindfulness. A lot of this is about control, and 421 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: a lot of it's about avoiding difficult feelings, and mindfulness 422 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: is about encountering difficult feelings in a gentle kind of way. 423 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: We explore them with curiosity, so we stop engaging in 424 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: those automatic habits and behaviors. With that the gap between 425 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: stimulus and response, that space is where we choose our response, 426 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 2: as I said in the last episode, and that's where 427 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 2: growth and freedomise. And it's allowing that bit of space 428 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: between things that will help people to heal and to 429 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: be able to tolerate some of those difficult feelings that 430 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: come up around the body and self worth and all 431 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 2: of that. 432 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: And like you said when we spoke earlier, I think 433 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: it was in the introduction you were like, be curious 434 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: and I think rather than hating on that feeling of 435 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: like oh I really want to have a chocolate bar. 436 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: If I can increase or if anyone can increase that space, 437 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: why am I feeling that? What am I avoiding? What 438 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: don't I want to feel? What? Am I ashamed? Or 439 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: you know? There's often for me, it's the link between 440 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: body and being open. And like you said the way 441 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: you were saying in the episode before this, Jad spoke 442 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: to anxiety and like having a cup of tea with 443 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: your anxiety, like sit down with that feeling of like 444 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: if you're feeling shameful, what is that? Why? Why is 445 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: this happening right now? And I think that that curiosity 446 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: around it as opposed to this is defined. Like I 447 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: remember the first therapist I saw body of me stuff 448 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: was like just go for a walk, do something different, 449 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: and I get it. She was trying to make me 450 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: change the channel and I was like, it's not that simple, 451 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: and I keept going, you don't get it, like it's 452 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: not once that choice is made, and things like simple 453 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: things like keep me a diet diary. I was like, 454 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: do you understand how triggering that is for me? Because 455 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: a diet diary is almost like further enforcing this control. 456 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 2: The control aspect of it. And I think you know, 457 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: it sounds like in that instance the therapist didn't work 458 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: for you, or perhaps their tactics were instead of working 459 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 2: for you. And I want to emphasize it for a 460 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: lot of people that won't be the case that that 461 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: there are eating sort of specialists that I would hope 462 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 2: wouldn't be necessarily getting people to keep a food die, 463 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: except if it was this in the instance where they 464 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: really kind of track, is this person at risk of death? 465 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: Let's get that clear that some people die from this 466 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: condition from an exit universal So, and I also be 467 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: scared of seeking yeah treatment. 468 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: And also, like I always say, and I think you 469 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: say the same thing, you spend four sessions with a 470 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: new therapist and that may or may not be the 471 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: right fit, and you're going to. 472 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I sort of that's that's kind of a 473 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 2: general sort of rule I tell my clients, And like, 474 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: you know, your resistance has all come up in those 475 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 2: first few sessions that will come up for the rest 476 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 2: of your therapy life of a therapeutic relationship with a person. 477 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 2: But I'd sort of say, give it kind of four 478 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: sessions because a lot of people again have this mistaken assumption, 479 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 2: like meditation, that you're going to come out the end 480 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,719 Speaker 2: feeling better after that first session. No, you probably feel 481 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: a lot worse. And it's I like the opinion personal trainer. 482 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 2: You know you're going to come out a bit sore 483 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 2: and a bit stiff and a bit sweaty and feeling 484 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 2: a bit awkward and like you're not sure what you're doing. 485 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 2: And it's the same when we start to unpack our 486 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 2: emotional stuff and our our thinking patterns and everything, we 487 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 2: come into contact with some difficult areas and that and 488 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: it's and it's tricky, but that's where we really make 489 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: big changes in our lives. 490 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you, thank you for speaking to this. 491 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: I know it's a big, big topic, and I think 492 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: the overarching message for you that you've shared is it's 493 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: a serious topic and it needs to be dealt with professionally, 494 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: which I find very empowering because that's obviously what I'm 495 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: super passionate. I'm very passionate about saying see a therapist 496 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: or get the help that you need because just like 497 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: how you mentioned about that first few times, you can 498 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: feel really young. Just an fy, I'm two and a 499 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: half years in with the same therapist, I can have 500 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: that feeling. I can have really great sessions where I'm like, oh, yes, 501 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: I'm clear, I'm on track. And I can have other 502 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: sessions like the other day I walked out and he goes, 503 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: you're doing the work, and I was, like, I said 504 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: to him, the first time, I can feel like I'm 505 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: doing the work from my heart not my head. 506 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 2: Yes. Interesting, which was a. 507 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: Huge shift me And it actually felt like I was 508 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: more because I'm an analytical overthinker, actually felt like a 509 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: more whole person because I wasn't stuck in kind of 510 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 1: like what we've touched on before control the addiction to 511 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: kind of like being the boss and overthinking, and I 512 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: really started to go with it. So I look, what 513 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is I agree with Jad to 514 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: see a therapist. Know that some sessions are going to 515 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: be great, some sessions are going to be feel shitty, 516 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: but there's probably great growth going on there. Absolutely, Chad's 517 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: going to do a mindfulness exercise or meditation around this topic. 518 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of around encountering difficult feelings and acknowledging that 519 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 2: they're there and reminding ourselves were not alone and experiencing 520 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: that and then having some compassion towards the fact that 521 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 2: life involves difficulty, that life involves suffering, So changing a 522 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: relationship to that automatic kind of response we have when 523 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: we get a kind of emotion showing up. 524 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: Oh so cool, thank you for being here. I'm so pumped. So, 525 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: just so people know, this is the Body Image episode. 526 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: Subscribe if you don't want to miss the ones coming up. 527 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: The next one is about grief and heartbreak, and the 528 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: one before this was stress and anxiety. So, like we 529 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: said at the intro, you can go back and listen 530 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: to any of these episodes as often as you need. Like, 531 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: I know, my boyfriend likes to meditate morning at night, 532 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: and these tools that you're giving us they can be 533 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: done a couple of times a day if we felt 534 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: that we need them. 535 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: Awesome. 536 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, so guys, you've got all the tools now, all right, 537 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: big love, Thank you, Chad. 538 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 2: Thanks everyone. This meditation is called the Mindful Self Compassion Break, 539 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: and it's a meditation you can use when of you 540 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 2: experiencing some sort of difficulty in life, and you can 541 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 2: break it down into a very small exercise or turn 542 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: it into a longer exercise. So beginning by thinking of 543 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 2: a situation in your life that's difficult at the moment 544 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 2: and causing you some stress, enough stress that you can 545 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: feel it in your body as you think about it, 546 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: but not that's so overwhelming that you might feel traumatized 547 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 2: or overwhelmed. So calling the situation to mind, see if 548 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: you can actually feel the stress and emotional discomfort in 549 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: your body, get a sense of it in your body. 550 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 2: If you can't get a sense of the discomfort, perhaps 551 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 2: thinking of a situation that's a little bit more difficult, 552 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: perhaps so feeling that difficulty, noticing that difficulty and how 553 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: it feels in your body now using a soft, soothing, 554 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: supportive internal voice, I want you to gently label this difficulty. 555 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: This is a moment of suffering. This is a moment 556 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: of suffering. So that's mindfulness, drawing our attention to the 557 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: difficulty and labeling it for what it is right now 558 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: in this moment. This feels difficult or ouch right now, 559 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 2: in this moment, this hurts or ah, I noticed that 560 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: this is stressful for me right now, So turning towards 561 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: outscomfort and labeling it as such, being honest with ourselves 562 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: that this moment is difficult feeling wherever you feel it 563 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: in your body, making room for that difficulty, not fighting it, 564 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: not dwelling on it, but noticing that it really is there. 565 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: That's mindfulness. Then we're going to bring the second part 566 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 2: of self compassion into this exercise, common humanity, a sense 567 00:29:52,840 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: of connectedness to all humans, turning towards out comfort and 568 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: gently and non judgmentally saying to ourselves, ah well, Suffering 569 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: is a part of life. Suffering is a part of 570 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: life at times. You're not alone in feeling this way. 571 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 2: There are times in life that we all struggle, that 572 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: we all experience difficulty. I'm connected to others, both in 573 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 2: joyful times and in the times that I struggle. I 574 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: share these feelings with millions of other humans that have 575 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 2: lived this earth. Other words, that might work for you 576 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 2: could be just like me, others struggle with this pain 577 00:30:51,720 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 2: at times. Or I'm not alone. I'm not alone feeling 578 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: this way again, acknowledging that we all struggle in our lives, 579 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 2: that all of us experience pain and discomfort at times, 580 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: and joy unhappiness. Now, placing your hand over your heart 581 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 2: or any other spot on your body that feels sort 582 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 2: of soothing or supportive noticing the warmth of your hands 583 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: and the gentle pressure of your hands on your chest 584 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 2: or any other spot that feels right for you. Now, 585 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: Imagining someone in your life who you care about greatly, 586 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: who's experiencing a suffering similar to yours, perhaps the same, 587 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 2: and just thinking about how you might respond to their suffering. 588 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: What words might you say to them? What language might 589 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: you use to let them know that you're there for them, 590 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: to validate their experience, to encourage them, to soothe them, 591 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 2: to motivate them. What tone of voice would you use 592 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 2: if you saw them suffering in such a way. What 593 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: physical gestures might you offer them, like a hard or 594 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 2: a squeeze of the hand. What might your body language 595 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 2: be like in relationship to them, Seeing if you can 596 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: feel that sense of compassion towards their suffering growing within you, 597 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: that desire to help them in some way. Noticing that 598 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 2: hand on your heart again or other soft supportive spot. 599 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 2: Imagining now someone who cares about you greatly, and this 600 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 2: person wants what's best for you. They can see that 601 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: you're suffering, they can see that you're struggling, and in 602 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 2: this moment of suffering, what words might they offer you 603 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: to validate your pain, to support you, nurture you, soothe you, 604 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: protect you, encourage you. What tone of voice might they use, 605 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 2: Seeing if you can feel the tone in their voice 606 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: of care and compassion and kindness. What physical gestures or 607 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 2: body language would they offer to show you that they care? 608 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 2: Would they lean in, they place a hand on your shoulder? 609 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: Feeling again that sense of compassion welling up in your body, 610 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 2: turning inwards now towards yourself again, noticing that discomfort, that suffering, 611 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 2: Seeing if you can find a soft, soothing, internal supportive 612 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 2: in voice, and see if you can say something like 613 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 2: this to yourself. May I be kind to myself in 614 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 2: this moment? May I be kind to myself in this moment? 615 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 2: You can also ask yourself, what do I need to 616 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 2: hear right now to express kindness to myself? Is there 617 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 2: some sort of phrase or language or set of words 618 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: that might meet your needs in this particular situation? And 619 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: seeing if you can softly and calmly experiment with saying 620 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 2: those words to yourself, offering yourself the same kindness and 621 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 2: care in language that you would to another person you 622 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 2: care about. May I give myself the kindness that I need? 623 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: May I learn to accept myself just as I am. 624 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: May I have compassion for my own pain as I 625 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: do for others. May I be strong and resilient and 626 00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 2: grow from this experience. May be patient noticing again the 627 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 2: supportive touch of your hand on your heart or any 628 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 2: other soothing spot, Noticing the warmth and gentle pressure as 629 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 2: a physical sign of kindness and care towards yourself, Feeling 630 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 2: the good intention behind this. This might be difficult for 631 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 2: some of you. This might be a new feeling. The 632 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 2: fact that you're sitting here listening to this show is 633 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 2: that there's a part of you that wants what's best 634 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 2: for you, that cares for you. Already. In this meditation, 635 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: we're developing that part of you, the compassion itself. You 636 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 2: can practice this at any time. Can be done as 637 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 2: a lengthy meditation practice where you really spend time experiencing 638 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 2: each stage of mindfulness, common humanity, and self kindness, or 639 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 2: it can be done very quickly in the moment, placing 640 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 2: your hand on the heart and saying to yourself genuinely, ah, 641 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 2: this is a moment of suffering, but I am not alone. 642 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: Others suffered just like me in this life. May I 643 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 2: be kind to myself right now, making room for any 644 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 2: difficult feelings that are still there, and savoring any positive 645 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 2: experiences that you might have had in this exercise. Letting 646 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 2: go of the meditation now and when you're ready, gently 647 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: opening your eyes