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Speaker 1: Now we know that the Golden Snapper Stock Assessment Report

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Speaker 1: was this week released revealing sustainability issues with golden snapper

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Speaker 1: in the Greater Darwin region. The report highlights that golden

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Speaker 1: snapper around Darwin remain overfished around one fifth of their

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Speaker 1: original population, with the fishing mortality rates estimated to be

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Speaker 1: more than double the rate considered sustainable. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio is the fan CEO, David cheer Revolo.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, David, Hey, good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: It's a report find.

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Speaker 2: So look, it's not good news in the report.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, what it shows is that the golden snapper stocks

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Speaker 3: in and around Darwin, not for the rest of the territory,

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Speaker 3: but sort of in a two hundred kilometer area around

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Speaker 3: Greater Darwin remains in an overfish state, or remains in

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Speaker 3: what we call depleted state. And that's because the recovery,

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Speaker 3: the recovery trajectory that was set back in twenty fifteen

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Speaker 3: is not on track to achieve that sustainable status in

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Speaker 3: a reasonable time frame.

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Speaker 2: And the aim for a reasonable time frame in this.

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Speaker 3: Fishery is usually about fourteen years, and the current trajectory

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Speaker 3: is not meeting that.

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Speaker 1: So why is that? How have we wound up in

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Speaker 1: this situation, I guess is a really obvious question.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a complicated question. It is quite complex.

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Speaker 3: It's difficult as well because you know, recreational fishes have

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Speaker 3: done quite a bit of pain in this fishery as well.

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Speaker 3: There were interventions brought in in twenty fifteen after the

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Speaker 3: stocks were shown to be low way back in twenty ten,

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Speaker 3: and we had bag limits reduced down to down to

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Speaker 3: three per person, and doesn't matter if you go for

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Speaker 3: multi day.

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Speaker 2: Trips, it's still three. That's a possession limit.

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Speaker 3: We've had closures areas that were brought in place back

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Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, and unfortunately, what the stock assessment seems

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Speaker 3: to show is that the recovery is not occurring as

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Speaker 3: quickly as anticipated. That's despite people generally following the rules.

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Speaker 3: That's despite the closures remaining in place. But it looks

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Speaker 3: like a few things have happened here. One, this is

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Speaker 3: a twenty twenty one stock assessment, so it's actually.

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Speaker 2: Old three years ago already the data.

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Speaker 3: And then the other thing is that the data going

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Speaker 3: into this fishery is not great because it's primarily a

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Speaker 3: recreational and fishing tool operator fishery, not a commercial fishery.

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Speaker 1: So do you reckon that data could be old? Could

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Speaker 1: things be worse than what that data actually demonstrates.

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Speaker 3: I think that given the general trajectory, has been an

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Speaker 3: improvement in the fishery, but a slow improvement in the

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Speaker 3: fishery is probably unlikely. But given the uncertainty in the data,

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Speaker 3: it is hard to know.

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Speaker 2: So the actual.

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Speaker 3: Estimates say that the population could be anywhere between thirteen

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Speaker 3: and twenty nine percent and twenty one percent, which is

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Speaker 3: that for virgin biomass that is the mean figure or

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Speaker 3: the most likely middle figure.

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Speaker 1: So who is responsible for the vast majority of golden

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Speaker 1: snapper catches?

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to golden snapper, it's the recreational

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Speaker 3: fishing sector and the fishing tour operator or the fishing

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Speaker 3: charter sector that catch most of them.

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Speaker 2: There is a small.

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Speaker 3: Component in the commercial fishery, but it is predominantly a

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Speaker 3: recreational fishery.

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Speaker 1: So have wreckfishers been irresponsible or is it just a

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Speaker 1: situation where you know, people maybe haven't realized that those

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Speaker 1: stocks are depleting and that there needs to be a

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Speaker 1: bit more education in this space. Like, what's the answer.

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Speaker 3: I think it's I don't think it's from people being irresponsible. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this education is certainly an important part of it. Before

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Speaker 3: I go to that, I think what I would say

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Speaker 3: is that people have been following the rules that have

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Speaker 3: been put in place. It appears that the rules or

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Speaker 3: the target's been put in place as not being achieved

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Speaker 3: by the measures that are in place.

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Speaker 2: So we need to change the rules.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean it's probably, But the other thing

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Speaker 3: about it is it's very disappointing that we had these

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Speaker 3: big closure areas brought in and they haven't been monitored properly.

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Speaker 3: There hasn't been a proper conversation with the community about

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Speaker 3: how it's tracking. How we find ourselves almost ten years

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Speaker 3: down the track and we're finding ourselves in a situation

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Speaker 3: where more into is going to be required.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think the ball has been dropped here?

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Speaker 2: It saints in.

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Speaker 3: All honesty, I think it's a it's reflective of a

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Speaker 3: chronic underinvestment in fisheries management in the Ran territory. I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, people sort of think it's okay when they

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Speaker 3: hear about government departments getting efficiency dividends, but you apply

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Speaker 3: that over the period of a decade and couple that

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Speaker 3: with a thirty percent inflation over the same period of time,

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Speaker 3: and you quickly find a division like Fisheries potentially having

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Speaker 3: a budget that in real terms is about half of

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Speaker 3: what it used to be.

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Speaker 1: And so in terms of not like would that mean

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Speaker 1: impacting in terms of like the monitoring of the fish

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Speaker 1: stocks and also looking at ways to increase the fish stocks.

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Speaker 3: If we want to get away from having long term

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Speaker 3: problems with refish in the Northern territories, certainly there needs

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Speaker 3: to be actions in the minister and the department and

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Speaker 3: ourselves we recognize them. But one of the key fundamental

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Speaker 3: things here is having proper investment in our fisheries management.

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Speaker 3: We need to have more scientists, we need to have

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Speaker 3: more monitoring, we need to have better investment in the

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Speaker 3: peak industry bodies, which of course I would say, but

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Speaker 3: it's critical to having that stewardship, that education and that

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Speaker 3: co management, which really we have not been working well

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Speaker 3: towards in the Northern Territory for quite some time now,

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Speaker 3: primarily not due to will or not due to the

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Speaker 3: expertise of the people involved, but due to the resources.

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Speaker 1: So what needs to happen next from your perspective, like

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Speaker 1: a reckfish is pretty worried about these numbers or what

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Speaker 1: are people saying to you.

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Speaker 3: So the experience of recreational fishes here is going to

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Speaker 3: be significantly mixed. And that's because the golden snapper, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: they are a very tricky stock to manage, especially next

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Speaker 3: to a population center, and that essentially there are sort

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Speaker 3: of fifty kilometer areas where that's predominantly on one stock

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Speaker 3: of fish. I'm not saying that those fish don't intermix

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Speaker 3: at all, from what we seem to know, it's quite localized.

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Speaker 3: So essentially, and I'll just sort of cut in the

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Speaker 3: chase here. What that means is some people's fishing experience

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Speaker 3: is if they're fishing further away around the Tiwi Islands

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Speaker 3: or over towards Point Stuart or Coburg, they're catching lots

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Speaker 3: of great fish. If they're fishing in and around Darwin Orf,

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Speaker 3: the're fishing around Dundee, they're not encountering anywhere near as

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Speaker 3: many adult fish. And an adult female golden snap of

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Speaker 3: sixty three centimeters it's.

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Speaker 2: A big fish. So there are some mixed experiences.

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Speaker 3: So I think the views of reckfishes are going to

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Speaker 3: differ significantly. But what the stock assessment shows is that

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Speaker 3: where the majority of the fishing is being done, there

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Speaker 3: is a problem, and we can't dispute that, even though

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Speaker 3: we want to improve the data. What the harvest strategy says,

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Speaker 3: and this is the rule that's in place, is that

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Speaker 3: when you encounter the situation, they have to reduce the

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Speaker 3: fishing in juice mortality, so the catch by fifty to

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent to return the trajectory to to recovery

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Speaker 3: over a fourteen year period. And the way that it

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Speaker 3: says that has to occur by either having more closure

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Speaker 3: areas or having closures for a period of time.

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Speaker 1: Right, people probably aren't going to like that, are they.

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Speaker 2: Well, people are definitely not going to like that.

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Speaker 3: They're not going to like it for a few reasons,

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Speaker 3: as a low trust environment with the existing closures, and

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Speaker 3: as to whether they've worked or not. So people you know,

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Speaker 3: rightly will ask questions about that. But it is important

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Speaker 3: to also note that is that the harvest strategy also

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Speaker 3: requires what they call a recovery plan.

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Speaker 2: Now, what's good.

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Speaker 3: About this is the recovery plan can also take in

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Speaker 3: other factors, so we can ask questions about could there

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Speaker 3: be a no take instituted. So at the moment we

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Speaker 3: say keep all your golden snaper because they don't survive

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Speaker 3: if you release them in water. We know a lot

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Speaker 3: of golden snapper are caught in shallow water. Could we

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Speaker 3: re release them back in exactly can we invest in

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Speaker 3: in habitat there's a two million dollar on this year's

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Speaker 3: budget for artificial reefs. Now we haven't heard from the

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Speaker 3: new government exactly if they promised they're going to deliver

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Speaker 3: on that in this year's budget, but it's in this

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Speaker 3: year's budget. See if we can enhance the productivity of

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Speaker 3: these areas. Obviously investigation, investing in education, stewardship. There's four

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars in this year's budget for that and

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Speaker 3: that's very important. That's a direct result of our advocacy.

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Speaker 3: What's the role of fishing tours. We know that the

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Speaker 3: refishing tours have expanded and we think that really needs

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Speaker 3: to be looked.

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Speaker 1: At and so you reckon that could be having an impact.

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Speaker 3: Certainly has been having an impact around places like Dundee,

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Speaker 3: and we need to really look at how that's managed

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Speaker 3: going forward. And then the other thing, of course is

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Speaker 3: can we stock snapper in and around Ye, there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of questions around whether.

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Speaker 2: That might work or not.

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Speaker 3: But if we look at Western Australia, if we look

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Speaker 3: at South Australia where they're snapper stocks are in trouble,

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Speaker 3: they are stocking, tas Mania are stocking their flathead, New

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Speaker 3: South Wales are stocking their duty working.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: It's early days for those.

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Speaker 3: Programs, but what it represents is that the governments are

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Speaker 3: committed to trying to do whatever they can to return

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Speaker 3: the stocks so sustainability as soon as possible, because the

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Speaker 3: social and economic impacts are significant. And the main problem

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Speaker 3: with golden snapper is is you might catch them when

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Speaker 3: you're not targeting them. So what impact does it have

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Speaker 3: on other fishing activities? It could be quite extreme if

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Speaker 3: we don't throw everything at this, and we're working with

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Speaker 3: the government to make sure that they do throw everything

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Speaker 3: out this. It's not a problem of their making. They've

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Speaker 3: inherited it, but we need to fix.

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Speaker 1: It absolutely well. And we know that you're going to

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Speaker 1: have the opportunity really to raise a lot of this

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Speaker 1: at the AGM that's happening on Thursday night.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it a surprise surprise, it's a fan AGM and

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Speaker 3: there's big issues in the headlines. So yes, we have

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Speaker 3: the AGM tomorrow night at six pm at the Travel

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Speaker 3: Lodge on Kavanagh Street. Any recreational fishes who are interested

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Speaker 3: are certainly welcome. I do encourage them to get their

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Speaker 3: early registrations. At five point fifteen and Minister Mailee will

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Speaker 3: be making an address. We expect to hear from him

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Speaker 3: about his election commitments, particularly around Barramunday and the promise

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Speaker 3: phase out of commercial guildnetting. We also want to hear

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Speaker 3: about the government's approach to fishing access negotiations. There are

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Speaker 3: several land claims that have been recommended to be granted,

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Speaker 3: places like shady Camp, places like the Ropa River lower

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Speaker 3: Daily River, where we're expecting over this term of government

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Speaker 3: the federal government to make those grants. It will require

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Speaker 3: negotiations to occur, and of course the emerging issue with

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Speaker 3: golden snapper. There'll be a presentation from Anti Fisheries, an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to hear from the scientist's firsthand about the stock

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Speaker 3: assessment and to have those questions answered.

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Speaker 1: What about where are things that with the phasing out

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Speaker 1: of the gill nets, right.

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Speaker 2: So that's obviously a big ticket item. It's a very

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Speaker 2: very important thing.

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Speaker 3: It's a four year commitment and you know, by the

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Speaker 3: time next year starts with three and a half years

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Speaker 3: three and only three and a half years to go.

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Speaker 3: So all about the government's commitment to phase out commercial

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Speaker 3: guildnetting for barrel Mondy and we're very pleased with that.

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Speaker 3: Of course, though the government has been focused on some

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Speaker 3: of its big ticket items, you know, crime and economy,

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Speaker 3: and we respect that.

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Speaker 2: But come early.

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Speaker 3: Next year and the time of the empty budget, we

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Speaker 3: expect the government to be talking about what its plan

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Speaker 3: is and how it's going to institute it. It's not

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Speaker 3: only essential to give the community confidence that the government

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Speaker 3: is moving forward with its plan, but it's also fair

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Speaker 3: to industry to give them fair warning and to start

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Speaker 3: to show them what the pathway is to exit out

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Speaker 3: of those guilt net licenses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which I think is fair enough. Like they obviously

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Speaker 1: need that plan and Territorians deserve to know. It was

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Speaker 1: something that was a big issue in the lead into

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Speaker 1: the election. David, We've got a few listener questions coming

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Speaker 1: through by the look of it. I've got one here

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Speaker 1: from Dave. Dave said, why don't we start registering bowjoners

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Speaker 1: and start up a fish stock program. This can also

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Speaker 1: be used for boat ramp and pontoon repairs too. Need

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Speaker 1: to stop using taxpayers money for boatings, says that message

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Speaker 1: from Dave.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean I think it's a fair perspective

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Speaker 3: from Dave. He may not realize that recreational fishing actually

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Speaker 3: makes about a three hundred million dollar contribution to the

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Speaker 3: economy and is also critical to the way of life

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Speaker 3: for so many territorians. Now there are fishing licenses in

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Speaker 3: other states. One thing I would say is it hasn't

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Speaker 3: stopped the collapse of some of their fish stocks. But

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Speaker 3: the other challenge there is that we're talking in those

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Speaker 3: states about having seven hundred and fight hundred million fishes

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Speaker 3: in New South Wales, and even then their governments still

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Speaker 3: invest in their boating infrastructure and in their fishing infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: It is absolutely a conversation to have into the future.

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Speaker 3: Although I must say the cop has ruled out bringing

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Speaker 3: in fishing licenses, but it's important to recognize that the

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Speaker 3: amount of money that would be generated would not mean

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Speaker 3: that we don't have to have a significant co investment

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Speaker 3: from the government.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Robert called in yesterday to ask about the East

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Speaker 1: Boat ramps, saying that some minor repairs have been done.

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Speaker 1: It's chained up so it won't float away. But he's

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Speaker 1: hearing that that pontoon's going to be removing it in

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Speaker 1: the wish and putting it back in the dry Why

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Speaker 1: not just fix it probably the first time. Do you

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Speaker 1: know what the go is with that one, David, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So there's been so many repairs to that pontoon that

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Speaker 3: it has been turned into effectively a seasonal the last

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Speaker 3: part of it, especially into a seasonal pontoon because when

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Speaker 3: we get those afternoons squads, when we get the wet

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Speaker 3: season wins, but also critically incredibly when we get the

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Speaker 3: dry season strong winds.

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Speaker 2: It's been breaking apart.

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Speaker 3: Now, the government did make a commitment to improving Eastam.

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Speaker 3: They talked about capping, investigating putting a rock wall around it.

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Speaker 3: So we'll be encouraging the government to look further at that.

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Speaker 3: Exactly what the solution should be obviously has to fit

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Speaker 3: into the mix of other spending priorities help even with

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Speaker 3: regard to recreational fishing priorities, but it would be really

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Speaker 3: good to have that infrastructure beefed up. Unfortunately though it

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Speaker 3: is a shallow and exposed location where that ramp is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, David, we always appreciate you coming in. There's

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Speaker 1: no shortage of things to talk about when it comes

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Speaker 1: to fishing. Thank you so very much for your time,

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Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to hearing how things go at

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Speaker 1: the AGM as well.

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Speaker 3: Can anyone attend, Yes, certainly anyone with an interest in

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Speaker 3: recreational fishing. We'd considered to be one of our bona

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Speaker 3: fide guests, So if they'd like to hear, come along

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Speaker 3: to the Travel Lodge tomorrow night.

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Speaker 2: Registrations from five point fifteen.

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Speaker 3: Six pm sharp start because we're going to hear from

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Speaker 3: the Minister first up. That really encourage people who attend

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Speaker 3: if they want to find out more about Barra, more

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Speaker 3: about access and more about Golden Snapper issue.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful stuff. David Girivolo, the CEO of AFANT, good to

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Speaker 1: speak to you this morning. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie