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Speaker 1: When the married at First Cite TV show first started

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Speaker 1: airing in Australia, dating coach and therapist, Mel Shilling wasn't.

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Speaker 2: A part of it, but her husband thought she should be.

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Speaker 2: This is you, he told her, this is your sweet spot.

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Speaker 2: But how would she go from watching the.

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Speaker 1: Show from her living room to being part of its

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Speaker 1: core team here in Australia and also in the UK. Well,

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Speaker 1: it all comes down to some simple but powerful advice

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Speaker 1: she received a long time ago. I'm doctor Amantha Imbach,

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Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and the host of How I Work,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying something a little different for the next

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Speaker 1: few weeks. This is How I Live, a series that

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Speaker 1: gives you an inside look with some super accomplished people's

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Speaker 1: top strategies for living a happy, productive and impactful life. So, Mel,

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Speaker 1: what physical possession has improved your life the most over

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years, other than phone and computer.

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Speaker 3: I love the idea of meditation, and I'm so often

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Speaker 3: talking to my clients about meditation. You know, I often

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Speaker 3: create guide of visualizations for them and I'm a huge

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Speaker 3: advocate of the whole idea, but I'm really crappy it myself.

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Speaker 3: So it's something that I know, I really do feel

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Speaker 3: challenged by you know, I generally find that I love yoga.

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Speaker 3: And when I do yoga and come to the end,

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Speaker 3: to the to the you know, the time where we

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Speaker 3: can actually shavasna, lie down and do a little bit

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Speaker 3: of quiet time, that's probably the only time I'm able

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Speaker 3: to actually, you know, let go of what's going on

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Speaker 3: in my mind and be in the moment. And that's

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Speaker 3: you know, sort of three or four minutes after having

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Speaker 3: done an hour of yoga. So I was searching for,

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Speaker 3: you know, a way that I can do it. I'd

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Speaker 3: tried YouTube, you know, so sort of watching something. I'd

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Speaker 3: tried all sorts of audio recordings and nothing really worked

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Speaker 3: for me until I discovered virtual reality. Sounds like an ad.

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Speaker 1: Where do I get some of this virtual reality from?

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Speaker 3: What is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it? Like? Is it a particular app or tell me.

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Speaker 3: More it is. It's more than an app. It's the

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Speaker 3: actual goggles. It's the Oculus. So we bought it for

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Speaker 3: my daughter a couple of years back for a birthday.

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Speaker 3: And it turns out that my habby, Gareth and I

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Speaker 3: use it more than she does. She uses it for

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Speaker 3: the occasional game, but he uses it for boxing, so

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Speaker 3: it's hilarious. You can imagine watching a man standing in

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Speaker 3: the middle of a room with massive goggles on punching

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Speaker 3: the air. It's quite hilarious. But I've been using it

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Speaker 3: for meditation, and I have two favorites that I tend

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Speaker 3: to go to and they are just beautiful. So one

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Speaker 3: is I'm sitting on a beach in Croatia and fully immersed,

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Speaker 3: of course from the full three sixty, and I can

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Speaker 3: with the goggles on, look up and around. And that

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Speaker 3: one is a very simple one. It is quite literally

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Speaker 3: just the waves going out and in and you just

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Speaker 3: breathe with the waves. It is so beautiful. It is

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Speaker 3: absolutely it's peace. It's a little moment of peace. So

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Speaker 3: I love that one. But it is very simple, and

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Speaker 3: I find if I have a lot going on in

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Speaker 3: my mind at the time, that one's not enough. So

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Speaker 3: if I need a hardcore meditation, I go cosmic. And

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Speaker 3: there's another one that is it's like you're immersed in

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Speaker 3: the solar system and there's a whole range of different

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to explain them. They're not objects,

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Speaker 3: they're sort of almost beings that it's all kind of

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Speaker 3: It sort of looks like electronica, you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: eighties if you do almost imagine a synthesizer what that

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Speaker 3: would look like visually. But it's in a peaceful way.

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Speaker 3: I'm not explaining it very well. It's all bright neon

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Speaker 3: sort of colors. But and there's direction about what to

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Speaker 3: do with your breath and where to take your mind

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Speaker 3: and where to physically look in this solar system that

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Speaker 3: you're in, So you're physically taking your vision and your

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Speaker 3: focus to different parts of this virtual world. So it's

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Speaker 3: one that you need focus for. So I find that's

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Speaker 3: a good one. If I've got a lot of chatter

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Speaker 3: going on in my brain, it guides me to where

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Speaker 3: I need to go at it. I absolutely shut everything

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Speaker 3: out and it's really effective.

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Speaker 1: Now, Mel, what is your favorite time saving hack?

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Speaker 3: Well, this is one that I've discovered since getting a dog,

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Speaker 3: which is, you know, just in the last sort of

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Speaker 3: twelve months. We've had him for nearly twelve months. And

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Speaker 3: he's a big guy. He's a golden doodle. We call

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Speaker 3: them gorodles in Australia, golden doodle over here, and he

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Speaker 3: needs a good walk every day. And I was finding

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Speaker 3: and I love doing it. I love being the one

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Speaker 3: to walk him. I love that time with him. But

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Speaker 3: of course, you know, I'm a busy person, like we

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Speaker 3: all are, juggling so many things. I want to be

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Speaker 3: doing things whilst I'm walking him. So excuse me. My

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Speaker 3: hobby bought this lead online. I think he just got

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Speaker 3: it on Amazon. That is essentially a hands free dog

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Speaker 3: walking lead. It goes up and around the body like

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Speaker 3: a handbag across your body, so I'm literally hands free.

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Speaker 3: So I have zoom meetings whilst I'm walking Charlie, and

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Speaker 3: I need to be very out front every time i'm

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Speaker 3: doing it that I am walking the dog, so people

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Speaker 3: know in case I need to, you know, stop him trying.

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Speaker 3: I've been trying to root one of the other dogs

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Speaker 3: because that's the phase of life is going through at

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Speaker 3: the moment. There is a lot of attempted routing without consent,

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Speaker 3: so I do need to intervene. But I found that

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Speaker 3: so helpful because I can literally be doing two things

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Speaker 3: at once and still be you know, really engaged in

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Speaker 3: a zoom call because I'm not trying to, you know,

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Speaker 3: wrangle him. I just walk.

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Speaker 1: What is something that everyone should do at least once,

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Speaker 1: but that most people would never have tried.

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Speaker 3: Well, we lived in Bali for about two years, so

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Speaker 3: this was when Maddie was two and a half till five,

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Speaker 3: So it was an amazing, amazing experience. I absolutely loved it.

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Speaker 3: You know, there with a whole bunch of expats mostly

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Speaker 3: you know, sort of digital nomads or people who are

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Speaker 3: flying in, flying out, a really creative group of expats,

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Speaker 3: and I went on this incredible journey with a group

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Speaker 3: of women where we went to this very sacred space

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Speaker 3: and had what they call a goddess cleansing ritual. It

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Speaker 3: was so beautiful that we literally were just we had

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Speaker 3: to wear, you know, a sarong, and we went into

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Speaker 3: these sacred falls was like sort of gentle waterfalls and

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Speaker 3: a beautiful big I guess you'd call it like a

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Speaker 3: lake with a high priestess Hindu, and she took us

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Speaker 3: through this most incredible hour long ritual of cleansing. None

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Speaker 3: of it was in English, so we didn't you know,

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Speaker 3: we didn't have a literal understanding of what we were

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Speaker 3: going through, but the experience itself was so incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not a religious person. I do consider

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Speaker 3: myself spiritual, but it's not something that I sort of

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Speaker 3: put a lot of focus on in my life. But

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Speaker 3: I've got to say this as something that was outside

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Speaker 3: of my normal experience, to have such a powerful spiritual

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Speaker 3: experience and that that feeling of letting go of pain

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Speaker 3: and you know, history was incredible. So I would say

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Speaker 3: to anyone who, even if you don't consider yourself religious

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Speaker 3: or even spiritual, if an opportunity to try something from

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Speaker 3: another culture that you know is considered transformational in another

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Speaker 3: culture comes along, jump into it and just go with

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Speaker 3: an open mind and give it a try. Because I

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Speaker 3: still think about that experience and it's several years ago,

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Speaker 3: it's over five years ago now, and there are times

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Speaker 3: where just that feeling of peace and the kind of

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Speaker 3: relief that I felt of the letting go comes back

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Speaker 3: to me so incredibly powerful.

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Speaker 1: Now, a large part of your job involves giving people advice,

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Speaker 1: whether that be for clients that you see as a psychologist,

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Speaker 1: or to contestants on TV or married at first sight.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering what piece of advice do you find

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Speaker 1: yourself giving to people most frequently.

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Speaker 3: I had to really think about this one, because you know,

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Speaker 3: it's there are so many different contexts that I work in,

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Speaker 3: and I was trying to think of something that is consistent,

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Speaker 3: you know, whether it's corporate or couples or media or

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Speaker 3: you know, whichever part of my world. And the one

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Speaker 3: that I found is consistent is inviting people to really

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Speaker 3: consider and challenge the stories that they tell themselves. That is,

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Speaker 3: that is a consistent piece of advice Because for me,

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Speaker 3: I come from a CBT background, so I'm all about

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Speaker 3: cognitive behavioral therapy, and so for me, I'm all about

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Speaker 3: self talk and the power of you know, thinking or

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Speaker 3: essentially the stories that we're playing on repeat in our

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Speaker 3: mind and you know, the flow through into emotional and

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Speaker 3: physical life. So that would be the one. Consider the

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Speaker 3: story that you're telling yourself. Is it still relevant today

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Speaker 3: or is it a legacy story that's just hung around

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Speaker 3: from childhood or you know, earlier relationships. Is it relevant,

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Speaker 3: is it accurate? Is it even based on reality or

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Speaker 3: is it just a set of beliefs that have built up,

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Speaker 3: you know, for a whole range of reasons over the years.

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Speaker 3: Excuse me? And is it serving you? Is that story

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Speaker 3: actually taking you toward your goals or is it moving

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Speaker 3: you away from them?

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Speaker 1: Is there an example that comes to mind where someone

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Speaker 1: has taken that advice from you or where you've given

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Speaker 1: it to yourself and what that's done.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I have a lot of examples of this

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Speaker 3: particular one in the dating world. So after as you know,

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Speaker 3: I was a psychologist for twenty years and then I

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Speaker 3: specialized as a dating coach, mainly working with women, and

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Speaker 3: I found that so often women who have had a

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Speaker 3: bit of life experience, had some relationships, you know, invested

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Speaker 3: time in their career, and they've maybe in their sort

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Speaker 3: of mid to late thirties, often and understandably so have

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Speaker 3: built up whole range of stories about men or you know,

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Speaker 3: people that they're dating, but also relationships. And you know,

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Speaker 3: one one woman that comes to mind is you know,

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Speaker 3: she came to me and had been really, really hurt

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Speaker 3: from a whole range of relationships and childhood stuff as well,

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Speaker 3: and she said to me, I don't know how I'm

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Speaker 3: going to date because all men cheat. And this was

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Speaker 3: her mantra and it had actually come from her mom.

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Speaker 3: Her mum had said this because that was her mum's experience.

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Speaker 3: All men cheat. It was a fact. It was this

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Speaker 3: black and white non negotiable in her life that was

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Speaker 3: her belief, and she didn't know how she was going

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Speaker 3: to get past it until we started sort of unraveling

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Speaker 3: it a little bit and picking at it, and she did.

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Speaker 3: She did come to realize that it wasn't actually her

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Speaker 3: belief at all. It was her mum's and it was

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Speaker 3: just something that she had essentially inherited or been taught

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Speaker 3: from her mum. And so she started changing that, and

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Speaker 3: you know, she developed her own set of stories to

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Speaker 3: tell herself, which were not all men are amazing, because

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Speaker 3: you know, that's not realistic either, but it was more neutral.

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Speaker 3: It was more, you know, I'm ready to step into

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Speaker 3: a great relationship with a fantastic person, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to treat each other with respect. So she kind of

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Speaker 3: moved from that old, you know, old brain thinking that

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Speaker 3: was very automatic and was very much just an inherited

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Speaker 3: set of beliefs to something that she had quite strategically

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Speaker 3: and consciously created for herself that really served her.

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Speaker 1: We will be back soon, where Mel shares an app

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Speaker 1: that she recommends to people who want to start changing

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Speaker 1: the stories they tell themselves in their head. If you're

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Speaker 1: looking for more tips to improve the way you live,

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Speaker 1: I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool

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Speaker 1: things that I've discovered that help make my life better

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Speaker 1: in some way. You can sign up for that at

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Speaker 1: How I Work dot Code. That's How I Work dot

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Speaker 1: Code for people that are wanting to change those stories

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Speaker 1: that they're telling themselves in their heads, like are they

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Speaker 1: good resources that you steer people too, whether it's work

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Speaker 1: that you do or great books that you've found people

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Speaker 1: have said have been quite transformative. For example, I actually.

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Speaker 3: Have an app that I recommend my clients on this one,

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Speaker 3: and it's particularly useful for a number of reasons. You

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Speaker 3: can use it as a bit of a thought journal,

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Speaker 3: which I'm such a fan of because I think the

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Speaker 3: first step to changing any sort of set of beliefs

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Speaker 3: is self awareness and starting to become aware of the patterns.

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Speaker 3: So it has a thought journal in there, but it

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Speaker 3: also has a little activity where you can pop in

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Speaker 3: a situation that's happened, and it takes you through the

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Speaker 3: thinking patterns, the emotions that you had, the strength of

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Speaker 3: those emotions, and that it gets you to reframe the

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Speaker 3: story that you're telling yourself and to then revisit the emotion,

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Speaker 3: and it helps you realize that if you have a

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Speaker 3: neutralized or even positive story as opposed to a negative one,

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Speaker 3: that the emotions that you feel are either not as

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Speaker 3: strong in the negative direction or they're positive, and it's

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Speaker 3: called mood kit.

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Speaker 1: Now, a lot of your work involves being in the zone,

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Speaker 1: whether that be speaking to the large groups of people

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Speaker 1: or a lot of the media work that you do.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, what's a fail safe way to get

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Speaker 1: yourself in the zone when you need to perform, but

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're just not feeling it and let's

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Speaker 1: you know, leave and need stimulants and drugs to the side.

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Speaker 1: When we answer this question.

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Speaker 3: I'm a funny one in that when I'm not on

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Speaker 3: as in performing or camera facing or audience facing, I'm

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Speaker 3: just your average mum, you know, as I right now,

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Speaker 3: I've got my mum ba and I've got no makeup

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Speaker 3: on my glasses. This is the real met This is,

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Speaker 3: you know, very much the way I am now. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to be on camera tomorrow, for example, So one

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Speaker 3: of the things I'm going to do today is get

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Speaker 3: my nails done. Now, it might sound like a silly,

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Speaker 3: frivolous thing to do, but for me, having my nails

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Speaker 3: done is part of my professional armor, and it is

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Speaker 3: it's become you know, over the last sort of decade,

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Speaker 3: I found that the ritual of getting my nails done

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Speaker 3: is a preparation for being on and being professional male

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Speaker 3: as opposed to just being me. So, you know, you

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Speaker 3: can say I've got purple nails right now. These were

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Speaker 3: from last week. I wore purple last week. I'm wearing

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Speaker 3: gold tomorrow, so I've got to go get the gold

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Speaker 3: nails on today and that will be part of my preparation.

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Speaker 3: It's incredible. And I find even the process from when

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Speaker 3: I sit in the makeup chair through throughout, you know,

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Speaker 3: that sort of hour to hour and a half of

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Speaker 3: transformation of hair and makeup, my whole posture and presences.

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Speaker 3: I'm still me, but I'm moving into professional mode. So

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Speaker 3: for me, these things that have become rituals and really important.

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Speaker 3: And I find that in situations where I'm thrown into

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Speaker 3: performance on the spot. For example, if I'm just out

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Speaker 3: and about with my family and someone comes up to

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Speaker 3: me and wants to have selfies and you know, talk,

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Speaker 3: you know, play the fame game, that can be quite

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Speaker 3: off putting for me because I'm not in that mode.

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Speaker 3: So I do find that, you know, rituals really help

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Speaker 3: me get into the mode. But then the other other

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Speaker 3: thing I thought about is very much about my posture.

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Speaker 3: So if you ever watch, you know, the work that

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Speaker 3: I do on TV, I pretty much have the same

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Speaker 3: posture all the time. I have a stance that I

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Speaker 3: use and it is legs crossed. But something that I

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Speaker 3: do that gets me into on mode or performance mode

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Speaker 3: is I have a dance background, and so as a kid,

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Speaker 3: you know, growing up as a dancer, we're always told

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Speaker 3: to lift ourselves up out of our hips. So to

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Speaker 3: imagine that there was an invisible string on our head

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Speaker 3: pulling is up. Yep, you're doing it now, beautiful pulling

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Speaker 3: you up to the to the roof, And that obviously

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Speaker 3: is the beautiful posture of a dancer. But also it

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Speaker 3: of course opens up your diaphragm, so you're breathing is

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Speaker 3: much easier. And for me, that represents confidence. So when

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Speaker 3: I have am sitting up out of my hips and

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Speaker 3: not slouching like this, but up out of my hips,

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Speaker 3: my shoulders are back, my chest is open, my whole

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Speaker 3: body language and stance is open and ready, that definitely

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Speaker 3: gets me in the mood. And sometimes I'll catch a

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Speaker 3: glimpse of myself if i'm you know, I've been on

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Speaker 3: camera for twelve hours and I'm getting tired. I see

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Speaker 3: a moment that was a tied moment. I can see

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Speaker 3: because if I'm slouching a little bit, and I know

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Speaker 3: that I'm not in the mind, I'm not I'm not on.

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Speaker 3: So there's a tip people.

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Speaker 1: If you ever.

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Speaker 3: Watching married it first sight and you see mis slouching,

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Speaker 3: I'm probably one hundred miles away. I'm not there. I've

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Speaker 3: left the building.

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Speaker 1: I love that I'm going to conduct the rest of

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Speaker 1: this interview with a string pulling me up. That's It's definitely.

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Speaker 1: I can feel like it's changed me. It's great. It

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Speaker 1: really does. It really does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, mel if I gifted you a plaque to put

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Speaker 1: on your wall, so something you'd like to be constantly

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Speaker 1: reminded of, what would you want that plaque to say?

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Speaker 3: If you don't ask, you don't get hmmm, simple as that.

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Speaker 1: How has that been true for you in your life?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, in so many ways. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: I have created you know that the career that I have.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't it wasn't there was no opening sample we've

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Speaker 3: married at first sight, there was no job opening that.

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Speaker 3: In fact, season one went to air and I wasn't

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Speaker 3: on it. And you know, at the time, I was

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Speaker 3: just I was working very much in the dating and

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Speaker 3: relationship space. I was doing a lot of speaking as well,

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Speaker 3: and excuse me, doing little bits of TV, but not

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Speaker 3: much at all. And my closest people, my sister and

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Speaker 3: my hubby, said to me, look, you should be on

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Speaker 3: this show. This is you. It's just it's your absolute

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Speaker 3: sweet spot. You should be on this. And so I

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Speaker 3: started to explore my network and sort of find out

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Speaker 3: through you know, people that I knew and people that

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Speaker 3: they knew, who was casting this show, and managed to

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Speaker 3: get the name of the person. And I cobbled together

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Speaker 3: a show real it's embarrassing to even call it a

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Speaker 3: show real now, but these little glimpses of me on

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Speaker 3: you know, little shows, and sent it to her and

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Speaker 3: I just said, look, I I have some different ideas

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Speaker 3: about this show about you know, how we could take

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Speaker 3: it and what we could do. Would you be open

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Speaker 3: to a conversation And she said, yep, okay, and so

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Speaker 3: we met. We met up in a little wine bar

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Speaker 3: in Sydney. I remember it was a clandestine meeting. I

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Speaker 3: had my trench coat on and my dark glasses or

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Speaker 3: it was all very top secret. And because I had

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Speaker 3: nothing to lose, nothing at all, I was very relaxed

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Speaker 3: and just really had like a brainstorming session and just said,

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Speaker 3: what about this and what about this? You could do this,

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Speaker 3: you could try this, and you know she at that time,

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Speaker 3: she said, look, we have free experts on the show,

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Speaker 3: but we're open to another one. Let's explore this, and

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Speaker 3: then went through the audition process and down the track

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Speaker 3: and you know, the rest is history. But that was

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Speaker 3: not an opportunity that was available. I needed to create it.

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Speaker 3: And I've really lived my life in that way, you know,

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Speaker 3: well since before then, you know, for a long time,

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Speaker 3: probably for the last couple of decades. I'd say I

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Speaker 3: have examples like that.

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Speaker 1: That's brilliant. Well, finally, for people that want to connect

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Speaker 1: with you, what is the best way for listeners to

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Speaker 1: do that?

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Speaker 3: Look, I live on Instagram. That is my home. So

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Speaker 3: it's just at mel Underscore shilling one. The number one

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Speaker 3: everything I do is there. So the best place to

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Speaker 3: reach out and connect with me is via DM on Instagram.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 3: Mel.

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Speaker 1: It has been such a joy to hear your answers

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Speaker 1: to these questions. Oh, I feel like I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to go googling after this interview, So thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for your time. It's been fab Oh.

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Speaker 3: Such a pleasure, matth that. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: having me.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to my chat with Mel.

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Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, you might want to go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to some of the other interviews I've

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Speaker 1: done in this How I Live series. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for sharing part of your day with me by

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Speaker 1: listening to How I Live. If you're keen for more

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Speaker 1: tips on how to work better and live better, connect

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Speaker 1: with me on LinkedIn or Instagram to search for Amantha Imba.

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Speaker 1: How I Live was recorded on the traditional land of

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Speaker 1: the Warrangery People, part of the Cool And Nation. I'm

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Speaker 1: so grateful for being able to work and live on

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Speaker 1: this beautiful land and I want to pay my respects

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Speaker 1: to Elder's past, present and emerging. How I Live is

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Speaker 1: produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.

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Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Liam Ridan and sound

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Speaker 1: engineering was done by Martin Imba.