1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the endless stream of notifications, 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: the constant buzz of your phone demanding your attention, or 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: found yourself scrolling through social media when you promised yourself 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: you'd spend the time more wisely. It seems like the 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: ability to focus is becoming the world's most elusive currency. 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Enter Near el author of the groundbreaking book Indestractible, who 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: has navigated the turbulent waters of distraction and emerge with 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: actionable strategies that promise to reclaim our attention. He teaches 9 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: us to embrace constraints, master internal triggers, and mold our 10 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: time to mirror our true priorities. So how does Near 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: achieve this balancing act between personal success, parenting, and maintaining 12 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: meaningful relationships, all while staying focused on what matters most. 13 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: Let's dive in to Near's world. 14 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: Unpack his habits and discover just how he works. 15 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: My name is doctor Amantha Imber. 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and founder of behavior change consultancy Inventium, 17 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: and this is. 18 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 3: How I work. 19 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: A show about how to help you get so much 20 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: more out of the hours in your day. For the 21 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: next few weeks, I am deep diving into my guests 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: habits and rituals around health. We will be covering physical health, 23 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: mental health, and emotional health. And in case you didn't know, 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: my new book, The Health Habit has just hit bookshelves 25 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: in Australia. If you are stuck in a cycle of 26 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: unhealthy habits, then the Health Habit will help you design 27 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: a personalized, science backed plan to change your habits for good. 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: Now onto my chat with Na which starts with him 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: talking about the rituals and strategies that have had the 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: biggest impact on his health and well being. 31 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: So for me, it was really about understanding this process 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 3: of defining what's important to me in my life domains 33 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 3: and that's a tool I talk about in my book 34 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: Indistractable around figuring out how to turn your values into time. 35 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: It's all about how do we live the kind of 36 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: life that is devoid of regret as much as possible. 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 3: We don't want to get to our deathbed and say 38 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: oh I should have, could have, would have? And so 39 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: part of that starts with our values. Right, what are values? 40 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 3: Values are defined as attributes of the person you want 41 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 3: to become, and so the goal should be and this 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 3: is what I do in my own life. And you know, 43 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: I wrote this book for me more than anyone else. 44 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: I needed this, So for me, it started with separating 45 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: out how I want to spend my time based on 46 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: turning my values into time based on these three life domains. 47 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: So the three life domains I define as you. You 48 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: are at the center of these three life domains. If 49 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care 50 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 3: of other people, you can't make the world a better place. 51 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: So that's the first life domain, which starts by looking 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: at your calendar. And I do this every single week. 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 3: I look at my week ahead and I ask myself, 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 3: how would the person I want to become spend time 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 3: taking care of themselves, which means you know, pedantic stuff 56 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: like personal hygiene. Right, how much time do I need 57 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 3: for rest? How much time do I need for you know, rejuvenation. 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 3: How much time do I want to spend reading books 59 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: or playing video games or on social media? That's fine, 60 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 3: none of that stuff is evil. It's just that we 61 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 3: need to make sure we put that in our calendars. 62 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: And I think social media in particular and technology gets 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: this bad rap as the cause of our distraction. And 64 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: what I found in my research is that that's not 65 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: the case at all. It's about how we use these tools. 66 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 3: So most people just use them whenever they have the 67 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: need for psychological escape from discomfort. What we really want 68 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 3: to do is make sure that we have that time 69 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: on our calendar. So that's the first life domain you. 70 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: The next life domain is relationships, so making sure that 71 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 3: you have time for the important people in your life, 72 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: so time with your kids, with your spouse. I think 73 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: an often neglected time that we don't make is for 74 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: time with our friends. We feel like our friendship should 75 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 3: be spontaneous, and I think that's a big mistake. Part 76 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: of the reason we have a loneliness epidemic in the 77 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 3: industrialized world is that people don't have the time on 78 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 3: their schedule that used to be reserved for those important relationships. 79 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: When you think back a few generations ago, people have 80 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 3: church groups, people had Kiwanis club, people had the bowling league, right, 81 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: and so what we found is that these reasons for 82 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 3: getting together with your friends have kind of disappeared, and 83 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: we need to bring them back. The third life domain 84 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: is your work. If people schedule anything, they tend to 85 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: schedule their work. But I actually think that this needs 86 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 3: to come last, not first, because the U domain and 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: the relationship domain are more important than the work domain 88 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 3: from a holistic life perspective. But then, even work we 89 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 3: can separate into two kinds of work. We have what 90 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: we call reactive work and reflective work. Reactive work is 91 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: how most people spend most of their days, reacting to notifications, 92 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: reacting to messages, reacting to taps on the shoulders from 93 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: their colleagues of their boss, constantly reacting. And of course 94 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 3: we cannot do our best work unless we have time 95 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: for reflective work. So the planning, the strategizing, the thinking 96 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: can only be done without distraction, so that time has 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 3: to be set aside as well. When you ask me 98 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 3: your question of you what kind of rituals and routines 99 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: I have in my life, It's not so important about 100 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 3: what that specific routine is. I think a lot of 101 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 3: people look for what the life hack, right? Do I 102 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 3: need to wake up exactly at five thirty? And how 103 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: many millileaters of water are do I need to drink? 104 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 3: And how much exercise doing to get That's actually much 105 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: less important. It's not about what you do, it's about 106 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: how you do it. It's the strategy over the tactics, meaning 107 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 3: being the kind of person who says this is how 108 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: I want to spend my time and then self actualizing 109 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: what you said you were going to do. That is 110 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 3: the most psychologically beneficial, healthy thing you could possibly do. 111 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: It doesn't actually matter what you do. If you say 112 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 3: to yourself, I'm going to do nothing but play video 113 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: games on a Saturday afternoon, that's fine. That's great because 114 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 3: that's what you said you were going to do and 115 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: you did it. The best of course, is to say, okay, holistically, 116 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 3: looking at all my values, how can I live my 117 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: life to minimize regret by planning ahead? And that's a 118 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 3: big strategy to becoming indiestractable. 119 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: So, in terms of those three domains of you, relationships 120 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: and work and having your time match your values, is 121 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: there a process that you went through within those three 122 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: domains to work out what matters to you most? 123 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: So I think for a lot of people it's very 124 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 3: intimidating to sit down and ask themselves what matters most 125 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: in life. It's very hard to make those trade offs, 126 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: and they tend to kind of over idealize what that 127 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: would look like. So what I would advise people to 128 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: do is to not think of this exercise in the 129 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 3: lens of a drill sergeant. It's not about beating yourself 130 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: to becoming the best version that tends to not work 131 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 3: over the long term. Rather, it's about being a scientist. 132 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 3: What does a scientist do. A scientist makes a hypothesis, 133 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 3: runs an experiment, looks at the results, and then runs 134 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: new experiments based on those results. So it's an iterative process. 135 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 3: So the idea here is if you can look at 136 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 3: your week ahead, heck even the day ahead, and ask yourself, 137 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: how would the person I want to become spend that day, 138 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 3: and very quickly, what you're going to find is that 139 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: you have constraints, and those constraints actually empower us to 140 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 3: be better because, unlike what most people do, which is 141 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 3: all their wishes and dreams and hopes and aspirations on 142 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 3: a to do list, a to do list has no constraints. 143 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 3: You can always add more. I want to write a 144 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: best selling novel, and I want to volunteer, and I 145 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 3: want to save the world. I want to do all 146 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 3: this stuff. I want to be a great parent, I 147 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 3: want to start a business. It's endless, there's no constraint, 148 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: and so what that tends to do. It's the tyranny 149 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 3: of choice. Kirker Guard said, anxiety is the dizziness of freedom. 150 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 3: Such a good quote. Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom. 151 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: Kire of God hit the nail on the head. It 152 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: is because we have too much choice today that we 153 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: have rising rates of mental illness. Think about that for 154 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: a minute. So we need to impose those constraints. We 155 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: need to look at our day and say, look, I 156 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: will never be able to do everything at least not 157 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: all at once. And by looking at our counter and saying, hey, 158 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: I only have so many hours in the day now 159 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: we are forced to make trade offs. The goal is 160 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 3: not to finish anything. It's not to accomplish anything. It's 161 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: simply to live your life doing what you said you 162 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: were going to do without distraction. 163 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: I'd love to drill into some of the experiments that 164 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: you've ran in your own life near around those three domains, 165 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: and there might be experiments that you run in the 166 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: last few years or maybe experiments that you're doing now. 167 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: So on the U domain, what is an experiment that 168 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: you've ran that was a success in your eyes? Like 169 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: what were you trying to change and what did you 170 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: do and what happened. 171 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 3: Sure, So for me, I used to struggle with being 172 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 3: clinically obese, and today I'm forty five years old, I'm 173 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 3: in the best shape of my life. I'll tell you 174 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 3: sheepishly that I have six pack apps for the first 175 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: time in my life. I've never been at And I 176 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: don't say that to brag. I'm saying that because I'm 177 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: not genetically gifted. I'm not athletic. I hate exercise, in fact, 178 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 3: like I'd rather not do it. But why am I 179 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 3: now in the best shape of my life at forty 180 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 3: five years old, even though I used to be a 181 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: clinically obese. It's just about the fact that I do 182 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 3: what I say I'm going to do. But for me, 183 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 3: that was a really difficult journey because as I said, 184 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: I hate exercise. I'm not particularly athletic, but I know 185 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: it's part of my values to extend my lifespan as 186 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: much as possible. Now that practice that I've adopted since 187 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: I did this research of the past decade or so 188 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 3: into distraction, has really changed my life because now you know, 189 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 3: when it comes to this life domain, I have time 190 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: in my schedule when I exercise. It's not oh, well, 191 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 3: exercise when I feel like it, because I never feel 192 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: like it. I don't particularly like it, So I'm not 193 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 3: going to do it unless I had that time booked 194 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: in advance in my schedule. 195 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: Relationships, because one thing I know that you used to 196 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: do when you were living in Manhattan is run a 197 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: thing called a kubutz, and I'd love to understand more 198 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: about what that was about and what that was trying 199 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: to solve for in your life. 200 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So we found that when we had our 201 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 3: daughter that we were spending more and more time investing 202 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: in her and less time investing in our relationships and 203 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 3: our friends. And that's something that I think a lot 204 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: of people go through when they have kids, and I 205 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 3: think it's a big mistake not to be conscious and 206 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 3: considerate about how important our relationships are. You know, we 207 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 3: don't go out as much with our friends, we don't 208 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: see them as often, and then we kind of can 209 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 3: feel quite lonely without those consistent adult relationships. So what 210 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,599 Speaker 3: we did was form we called a kubotz, and a 211 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: kibbutz in Yiddish means gathering, and the idea nothing religious 212 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 3: about it whatsoever, But the idea was that we had 213 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: time scheduled in advance on all our calendars where these 214 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: four or five families, whoever was available at the time, 215 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 3: would get together on that day and we always had 216 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: some topic of discussion. Most often somebody would see, you know, 217 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: we would assign whose responsibility was to kind of bring 218 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 3: the topic of the day, and what we did most 219 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 3: often was is to find a ted talk online or 220 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 3: some kind of interesting article that someone might read and 221 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: that would be the catalyst for the discussion. So one 222 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: time it was about I remember, we had a wonderful 223 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: discussion about what's our role as caretakers for our parents 224 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 3: as well as our children as our parents' age, and 225 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: so it wasn't really important what we talked about. It 226 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 3: was that we had this forum scheduled on our calendars 227 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 3: in advance, even when we had very young kids. I 228 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: think it was particularly because we had very young kids. 229 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 3: When you're when you don't have kids, you can be 230 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 3: more spontaneous. You can just go out and you know, 231 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 3: meet at the bar, but when you have kids, you 232 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 3: have to plan ahead. So knowing that everyone planned ahead, 233 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: had this time, had held on their schedule, and most importantly, 234 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: we had a specific rule set about what to do 235 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 3: with our kids, meaning we wanted to model what adult 236 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: relationships should look like to our children when many parents 237 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: do and it drives me crazy. We don't hang out 238 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 3: with these parents. Is that whatever the kid wants, they 239 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: have the right to interrupt. It's really awful because you 240 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 3: cannot have a conversation. And I'm not talking about very 241 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 3: young children, right, if your kids are still in diapers, 242 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 3: you know, they don't have the ability to moderate their needs. 243 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 3: So that's a different story. But when kids are, you know, 244 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: around school age four, five, six, they absolutely certainly can 245 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: be told. And this was the rule that we had 246 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: in our Keybootz was unless you are bleeding, take care 247 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: of it yourself. What a great rule, Right, somebody's bleeding, 248 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 3: let us know. Short of that, figure it out. It's okay. 249 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 3: If somebody hit, somebody, figured it out. And it's okay 250 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: if somebody took somebody's toy, figure it out. Do not 251 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 3: interrupt this adult conversation because guess what, the way you 252 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 3: play is important. We don't interrupt you when you play 253 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: with your friends, and the way adults play is by 254 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 3: having conversation. That's what we'd like to do, and we 255 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 3: wanted to model that we wanted them to see that 256 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: it's this is what adult friendships should look like. And 257 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: we wanted our children to practice being bored right learning 258 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 3: patients learning to wait their turn. 259 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: I love that. 260 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: What do you do now that you're in Singapore and 261 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: I know friendships are important to you? Obviously your relationship 262 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 1: with your wife is important. Are they rituals or deliberate 263 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: activities that you have in place to make sure that 264 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: that value shows up in looking at your calendar week 265 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: to week? 266 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, so I've adopted this ritual again since writing 267 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 3: this book, where I found that my oldest relationships were 268 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: really starting to fray. My friends from high school and college, 269 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: we were losing touch. And I used to have lots 270 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 3: and lots of friends from high school and college, and 271 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: then as the years passed, you know, there's this awkward 272 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 3: thing that happens that the longer you don't talk to somebody, 273 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 3: the more uncomfortable it becomes to reach back out. Because 274 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 3: if we were really good friends, why would it have 275 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 3: been so long that we didn't talk to each other? 276 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 3: And so I decided to take this step of thinking 277 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: about who are my very closest friends that I really 278 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 3: do not want to lose a relationship with because you know, 279 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 3: we know that most relationship when we think about relationships ending, 280 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: people think it ends in dramatic fashion. Right, we've got 281 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 3: in a fight and now we're not friends anymore. That 282 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: almost never happens. For adult relationships. That almost never happens 283 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 3: because relationships don't die, they starve to death. Right, They 284 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: don't end in a fight. They end because they kind 285 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 3: of faded away. And I didn't want that to happen 286 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 3: with my closest friends from high school in college. So 287 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: I called up a few of my very closest friends 288 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: and I said, hey, look, I've been doing this research 289 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 3: on distract actually the important of importance of prioritizing your 290 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 3: values around your relationships. I would like to preserve this relationship. 291 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: It's super important to me. And so if it's as 292 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: important to you, it's okay if it's not. But if 293 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: it's as important to you, let's put time in our 294 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 3: schedules so that we make sure we have time to connect. So, 295 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: with my friend Jeff, every third Tuesday of the month, 296 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 3: we have time in our calendar from now to eternity 297 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: that time is booked. Saying with my friend Travis, my friend, Zach, 298 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 3: that time is already scheduled in advance. We don't have 299 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 3: to debate around, oh are you free this time or 300 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: that time? What about this time? No, it's in the calendars. 301 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: It's this very easy function that Google Calendar lets us 302 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: do of these repeating events forever and ever. So at 303 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: a minimum, I know that I've invested in that relationship 304 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 3: domain in a way that helps me live up to 305 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: my values and preserve these relationships in advance. Now the 306 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 3: local friends are these these people I'm talking about, They're 307 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 3: all still in the States and I'm in Singapore. But 308 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: for local relationships, you know, I'll book that time where 309 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: I know in my calendar. Hey, every Thursday, that's my 310 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: social night, right. I don't know who I might spend 311 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 3: it with. Maybe that might happen spontaneously, but that time 312 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 3: is booked in advance. My wife knows that, my daughter 313 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: knows it. I know it, and so I will look 314 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 3: in the beginning of the week to fill in with something, 315 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 3: some kind of social engagement with a friend locally. I 316 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: like the recurring invite. 317 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: It's so funny because I went on a walk with 318 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: a new friend a few weeks ago and at the 319 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: end of the walk, she said, Hey, this might seem 320 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: kind of weird, but I really invest time in deepening 321 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: friendships with people that I like, And would it be 322 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: okay if I just scheduled a recurring monthly walk to 323 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: make sure that we actually do have the time to 324 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: deepen the friendship. 325 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: And I just thought that is so cool, Like, what 326 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: a great ask. 327 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever been asked to permission to 328 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: schedule a recurring walk in the diary, but now I 329 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: can see it coming up in a couple of weeks, 330 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's awesome. I get to catch up 331 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: with this new friend and it's. 332 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: There, and it saves so much time, right because you 333 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 3: don't book over it, and you don't spend any time 334 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 3: trying to find the next engagement, knowing yep, that time 335 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 3: is reserved. And hey, if something happens, oh my goodness, 336 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 3: you know I need I need to reprioritize this thing 337 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 3: or the other thing. Okay, once in a while it 338 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 3: gets canceled, that's fine, but you know the next month, 339 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 3: it's going to be there waiting for you. 340 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: We will be back soon. 341 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: With Nia talking about a super clever strategy he has 342 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: for avoiding unnecessary conflict in his life. If you're looking 343 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: for more tips to improve the way you work and live, 344 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: I write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and 345 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: simple to apply tips to improve your life. You can 346 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com. 347 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: That's Amantha dot substack dot com. I know that you 348 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: have a strategy around how you avoid unnecessary conflicts with people, 349 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: and a question that you ask I would love to 350 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: hear more about that. 351 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: Okay, So now this is a rule that it should 352 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 3: be used only in very close relationships. I probably wouldn't 353 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: use this in a general business negotiating type studying. But 354 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 3: this rule came about with my wife and I that 355 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 3: we've found we've been married now for twenty two years, 356 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 3: and we've used this rule. It's really improved our relationship 357 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 3: a great deal. And that whenever we have a disagreement, 358 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with disagreement. I would say my wife 359 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,719 Speaker 3: and I never fight, but we do have disagreements. And 360 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 3: so a way we found to not let those disagreements 361 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 3: turn into fights is that we want more information within 362 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 3: that conversation where we want to reveal to each other 363 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 3: our preferences. Because at the end of the day. When 364 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 3: you have a close relationship, you have this concept called 365 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: an overlapping utility function. An overlapping utility function says that 366 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: two people's utility overlaps in such a way that when 367 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 3: one person feels better, the other person feels better. Now, 368 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 3: this is not how most relationships work. In a zero 369 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 3: sum relationship, like let's say you're negotiating it for the 370 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 3: sale of your house, for example, or a big business deal. Well, 371 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 3: the more money I get, the more money you have 372 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: to pay, right, so my benefit is your loss. Now 373 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: that's not you know, with all business relationships, both parties 374 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 3: have to benefit somewhat. But you know, in many times 375 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,239 Speaker 3: zero some relationships, one get more, one gets less. With 376 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 3: close relationships, close friendships, marriages, parent child type relationships as well, 377 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: both people benefit the more. Both people benefit overlapping utility. 378 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 3: And so what you want to do is to reveal 379 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 3: how important something is to you. And this can be 380 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: about anything. It can be about the naming of your 381 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 3: firstborn child, it could be about the color of the couch. 382 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: And so here's what you do when you have a disagreement, 383 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 3: as opposed to saying I don't like this or what 384 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 3: about that, or we should do this different. Instead, you 385 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 3: ask how important is this to you? Scale of one 386 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 3: to ten, And what you will hear is that many 387 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 3: times people will disagree about something that is actually all 388 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 3: not that important to them. So, for example, one thing 389 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: that happened when we moved into our current place, my 390 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: wife spent a lot of time on decorating, and she 391 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 3: asked me about what do I think about the color 392 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 3: of part of the french or the couch? And I 393 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 3: didn't particularly like it. I didn't really like the color. 394 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: But then she asked me, well, how important is this 395 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 3: to you? Scale of one to ten? Because I put 396 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: in a lot of work deciding on this, and I 397 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 3: told her, you know what, it's about a two, great, 398 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 3: no problem. She went with the color she wanted because 399 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 3: I didn't really care that much. Right now, if I say, wow, 400 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 3: I really hate it, and you know, that's a seven 401 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 3: or eight for me. Okay, well, now that's a time 402 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 3: for a bigger discussion. If you're very close. Our rule 403 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: is if you're within three digits of each other, then 404 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 3: it's time to have a conversation, you know, to go deeper. 405 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: But that saved us from about ninety percent of our 406 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: conversations when we were where we were pretty far apart 407 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 3: from the beginning. 408 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: That is so cool. I love that strategy. 409 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: I'm going to share that with my partner because I 410 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: think that it's so practical and valuable. I want to 411 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: move on to the third domain of work and thinking 412 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: about reactive versus reflective time. How do you do that 413 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: in your own work life? What are some of the 414 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: routines or rituals that you've got set. 415 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 2: Up around that? 416 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 3: Absolutely, so, reflective work time is something that has to 417 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: be booked in advanced that most people the reactive time 418 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 3: that just happens, and many people, unfortunately get habituated to 419 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 3: respond to all this reactive work. Right when we don't 420 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: know what to do, well, just check your email inbox. 421 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 3: Your email inbox will tell you what to do, as 422 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 3: opposed to sitting down and thinking, wait a minute, what's 423 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 3: important for me to do right now? What will actually 424 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 3: move my career forward? People trying to escape that discomfort 425 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: and uncertainty by just looking at whatever their inbox says 426 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 3: to do, And of course that's a huge mistake because 427 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: you're going to run real fast in the wrong direction 428 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 3: if you use that strategy. So It's absolutely critical to 429 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 3: book at least some time in your day. It could 430 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: be thirty minutes, forty five minutes, maybe an hour to 431 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 3: sit down and think, to actually sit down and work 432 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: without distraction. For me, in my life, I cannot work 433 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 3: doing the most important thing that I do, which is 434 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 3: my writing and researching, without booking that time in advance. 435 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 3: And look, sometimes nothing happens. Right, I'll sit down at 436 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 3: my desk and no words come out. It doesn't matter. 437 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 3: Stephen Pressfield says, part of being a professional is not 438 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: waiting for the muse, not waiting to be inspired. 439 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: Right. 440 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 3: Many people say, oh, I'll work on it when I 441 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 3: feel like it, And of course that never happens because 442 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: hard work is hard by definition, you're never going to 443 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 3: feel like it. If it was easy, everyone would do 444 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 3: it well. 445 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: Purposeful. 446 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: I you, when you've scheduled the reflective time, do you 447 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: have a plan of what you want to do? 448 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: Is it more spontaneous than that? What does that look like? 449 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 3: Yeah? So the reflective work tends to be for the 450 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 3: long term tasks. I need to give a keynote and 451 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 3: I need to make an hour long presentation. I'm working 452 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,919 Speaker 3: on this book and I need to finish the next chapter. 453 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 3: It's something that can't be done in fifteen minutes. If 454 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 3: it's a fifteen minute task, you can bunch it into. 455 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 3: What I do is I have time every week for 456 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 3: what's called admin tasks, and that's where I put in 457 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 3: these little, you know, two minute type, fifteen minute little task. 458 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 3: You don't need to schedule every little thing on your calendar. 459 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 3: You can bunch them together. But when it comes to 460 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 3: these bigger tasks that require long term, sustained effort, what 461 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 3: you really want to do is to have a feedback mechanism. 462 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 3: The problem that many people face if they do use 463 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: some kind of task management systems, some time management system, 464 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 3: what they're using is typically a to do list, and 465 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 3: to do lists really don't cut it. And in fact, 466 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 3: we know that to do list can be one of 467 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: the worst things for your personal productivity if you don't 468 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: use them correctly. How are they used incorrectly? What most 469 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 3: people do with it to do list? So they take 470 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 3: stuff out of their brain, they put in a piece 471 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: of paper or in an app. And that's good, that's great, 472 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 3: but that's just step one. They completely forgot the next step. 473 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: The next step is to put that time in your calendar, 474 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 3: because if you don't, if you wake up every morning 475 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: and you look at your to do list and you 476 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: run your life based on the to do list, here's 477 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 3: what happens. You work on a task for a few minutes, 478 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 3: then you remember, oh, I should probably check email real quick, 479 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 3: or I should see what's happening in the news, and 480 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 3: you check that for just a few minutes, and then 481 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: you do this other thing, and then oh, you got 482 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 3: to get a drink of water, and then maybe get 483 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 3: a cup of coffee and da Dad, and then before 484 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 3: you know, you forgot what you've been supposed to work on. 485 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: And you never build a feedback system to tell you 486 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 3: how long the task took. Whereas when you have a 487 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 3: timebox calendar, when you say to yourself, I'm going to 488 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 3: work on this task and I don't care if I finish. 489 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: To do list, give us the satisfaction of checking off 490 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: all these cute little boxes. I mean, I've known people 491 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: that I've worked with those of the years who will 492 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 3: right the thing, the task in their to do list 493 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 3: after they've done it, just for the satisfaction of checking 494 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: the box. That's how crazy this is, right. It doesn't 495 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: matter how many cute little boxes you checked off. What's 496 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 3: important is that you do the task. You do the 497 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 3: thing you said you were going to do for as 498 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 3: long as you said you would, without distraction, because if 499 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 3: that is the only goal, not finish, but work on 500 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: the task without distraction. Now you have a feedback system. 501 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 3: Now you can say to yourself, Okay, I worked on 502 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 3: that task for an hour without distraction. An hour of 503 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 3: sustained effort on that task yielded three slides. Okay, well 504 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: I know I need to do with thirty slides. Okay, 505 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 3: that's ten percent. So that means I need ten more 506 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 3: hours to finish the task completely. You just can't do 507 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 3: that with a to do list. And so that's what's 508 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 3: so important about having that timebox calendar as a feedback mechanism. 509 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 3: Not only do we talk about how important constraints are, right, 510 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 3: that's super important, but also how you develop this system 511 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 3: into a feedback loop. 512 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 2: That's interesting. 513 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: How do you maintain motivation and given like, I completely 514 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: agree with everything you're saying about to do lists, and 515 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: I have absolutely fallen into the trap of getting false 516 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: motivation from essentially ticking off shallow work items on my 517 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: to do list. But when I am scheduling reflective time 518 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: and working on something that is a long term project 519 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: that feels like hard work, Like let's say it is, 520 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: you know, designing a new keynote, which is so time consuming, 521 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: and it's also hard to know when you're done, like 522 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: when is this done enough? How do you, I guess, 523 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: maintain motivation and recognize that you're making progress and also 524 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: know that you're done and it now can be ticked 525 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 1: off the you know, the deep work. 526 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 3: To do list if you like, yeah, yeah, so. So 527 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: part of it is because you have this feedback mechanism. 528 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: You don't set the schedule forever, right, You're looking at 529 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 3: it and whenever increment of time you have visibility into. 530 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 3: So for most people it's about a week's time. That's 531 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 3: for me. You know, every Sunday night, eight pm, I 532 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: sit down and I look at my calendar ahead and 533 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 3: I know more or less what my calendar is going 534 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 3: to look like. You can change your calendar, you just 535 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: can't change it in the day. So the day before 536 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 3: still fair game. So if you say, oh, you know what, 537 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 3: that presentation needs some more work. I know I only 538 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 3: got through two slides in thirty minutes. Maybe I need 539 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: an hour. Maybe I need a little bit more time here, 540 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 3: a little more time there. I really like to spend 541 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 3: more time with my kids, less time doing this with 542 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 3: that or the other, whatever it might be. You can 543 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 3: change your calendar anytime before the day of. You cannot 544 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 3: change it. You cannot touch a time box calendar once 545 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 3: you set it in the day, but you can change 546 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 3: it up to the day before. Right. So what you 547 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 3: do is you set that calendar for the week ahead 548 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: based on how things are coming along, how productive you're being, 549 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 3: according to if you have any kind of deadline type goals, 550 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 3: and you can adjust it accordingly. Now, it's important to 551 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: recognize everything we've talked about so far around time boxing, 552 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: that's only step two of four. When it comes to 553 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 3: becoming indistractable, a much more important step, step number one, 554 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 3: in fact, is mastering internal triggers. This is incredibly important 555 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 3: because internal triggers, just to reiterate, these are these uncomfortable 556 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: emotional states that we seek to escape from boredom, fatigue, uncertainty, stress, anxiety. 557 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 3: And it's important to understand what is the seat of 558 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 3: human motivation, not just why do we get distracted, but 559 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 3: why do we do anything and everything This is really 560 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 3: important to answer your point around how do you sustain motivation? Well, 561 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 3: what is motivation? We used to think that motivation was 562 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 3: about carrots and sticks, right, Freud said this with his 563 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 3: pleasure principle. Jeremy Bentham said something similar. We know neurologically 564 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 3: that this is not true, that motivation is not about 565 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 3: the pursuit of pleasure of the imfluence of pain. But rather, 566 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 3: motivation from a neurological basis is only one thing, and 567 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 3: that is the desire to escape discomfort. Everything you do 568 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 3: is about the desire to escape discomfort. Even the desire 569 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 3: to feel good is psychologically destabilizing. Wanting, craving, lusting, desire. 570 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 3: These things feel uncomfortable. That's why the brain gets us 571 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 3: to change something about our situation. So, knowing that fact, 572 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 3: knowing how important motivation is to sustain effort, and that 573 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: motivation is all about the desire to escape this comfort, 574 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 3: that therefore means that time management is pain management. Money 575 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 3: management is pain management. Weight management is pain management because 576 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 3: all human behavior is about the desire to escape this comfort. 577 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 3: So in order to do sustain work in order to 578 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 3: live the kind of life we want, in order to 579 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: live the kind of life we deserve. We have to 580 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 3: first learn how to master these internal triggers or they 581 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 3: will become our masters. And there's all kinds of techniques 582 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 3: you can use to do that. 583 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: Actually have a question about time boxing, So I'm a 584 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: big advocate of time boxing. 585 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: I use it in my diary. 586 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: But at the moment, Neil, I'm in a strange or 587 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: unusual kind of period career wise where I'm stepping back 588 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: into being CEO of the consultancy that I founded, and 589 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm recognizing that there's a need to have open space 590 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: in my diary, whether that be for teammates to call 591 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: me with, you know, random unplanned things that have gone 592 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: on that they might need advice on, or whether you know, 593 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: there's a little fire that I need to put out 594 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: which might take three or four hours, and what advice 595 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: would you give me around you know, I love timeboxing, 596 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: and I do that, but I'm also aware that if 597 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: I timebox to you know, like one hundred percent where 598 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: everything's accounted for, I don't have room to deal with 599 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: these things that are now popping up in my role. 600 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: So a few things. Number one is to ask yourself 601 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: what's actually unpredictable? So if something is really active. God right, 602 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: your house gets struck by lightning, God forbid. You can't 603 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 3: really plan for that. Okay, but a lot of you know, 604 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 3: most of what people deal with that they think is 605 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 3: unpredictable is not that. It's not your house got struck 606 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 3: by lightning. It's there's a fire drill at work because 607 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 3: a client is unhappy. Guess what. Clients get unhappy. That's predictable. 608 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 3: My kid got sick and I need to pick them 609 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: up from school. Guess what, that's predictable. Kids get sick. 610 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 3: It happens. So number one is to realize that ninety 611 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 3: nine point nine percent of things that you think are 612 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: unpredictable are actually quite predictable. So realize that. Step two 613 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: is to have a contingency plan in place. You're a 614 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 3: very high powered CEO of your consulting firm. Why is 615 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 3: it that in your job it's okay to interrupt you? 616 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 3: But if you were a heart surgeon in the middle 617 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: of performing open heart surgery, would a bargein to the 618 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 3: operating room and say, doctor, doctor, stop operating, let that 619 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 3: patient die because you didn't fill out your paperwork. Would 620 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 3: they do that to you? Of course not. There's an 621 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 3: hr issue. Someone wants to quit stop operating, No, it wouldn't. 622 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 3: Why because there's contingency plans in place. It's easy to 623 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 3: give that advice for you because you're in a very 624 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: high power, important position. All of us in our jobs. 625 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: It's obvious we're in high powered, important positions. I don't 626 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 3: care if you're a homemaker. I don't care if you're 627 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 3: an at home author like I am. All of us 628 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 3: we need to take our work more more seriously and 629 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 3: to realize that we cannot do our best work without distraction. 630 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 3: You can't be properly there for your children, You can't 631 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 3: properly work on a project, whatever it might be, if 632 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: you're constantly interrupted, or even if you have the fear 633 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 3: of constantly being interrupted. Step number three is making time 634 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 3: for these instances. Meaning if you plan time, you can 635 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 3: also plan time for white space. Meaning I'm going to 636 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 3: tell everybody in my company two. When you have something 637 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: that you think is super important that you need to 638 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: interrupt me, no problem. I will have this time every 639 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 3: day two o'clock to four o'clock. Open door office policy 640 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 3: from two o'clock to four o'clock. Anything that's urgent that 641 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 3: you need to talk to me about every single day, 642 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 3: come on in my doors open. But guess what, outside 643 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 3: of two o'clock to four o'clock, I'm doing work that 644 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 3: requires me to work with that distraction. Right, Just like 645 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 3: if I was on a call with my investors or 646 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 3: some VIP, you would interrupt me in the middle of 647 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 3: my call, So don't interrupt me when I'm in the 648 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 3: middle of my work either, So you can build in 649 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: that buffer time by planning head as well. 650 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: Now, i'd love to know what's a recent, you know, 651 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: routine or ritual that you've added to your life that 652 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: is serving you well and making you feel better. 653 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 3: Well, I haven't done it yet, but I'll tell you 654 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 3: about a ritual that I'm excited about that I haven't 655 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 3: adopted yet. But I'm researching right now for my next book, 656 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 3: which is prayer. So I'm secular. I don't believe in 657 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 3: anything supernatural, but I have come across way too much 658 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: evidence and research showing that prayer is incredibly beneficial. And 659 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 3: I always kind of dismissed prayer as well. If I 660 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 3: don't believe it, how can I do it? And I'm 661 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: really considering adopting some kind of prayer And I'm going 662 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 3: on a little expedition to start learning about how different 663 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: people pray, to learn how can we get the benefits 664 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 3: of prayer. I mean, it's amazing. I mean, and you 665 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: can call it whatever you want. You can say it's 666 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: divine intervention, you can say it's the placebo effect. At 667 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 3: the end of the day, the results be for themselves. 668 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 3: People who pray enjoy myriad benefits thatople who don't pray, 669 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 3: don't utilize, don't get. And so I'm going to explore 670 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 3: that ritual bit and so I'll report back to you 671 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 3: in the next few months here if I adopted and 672 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 3: what the results are. But I'm looking forward to exploring 673 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: that ritual. 674 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I look forward to to hearing how that goes. Nia. 675 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: It has been an absolute delight having you back on 676 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: how I work. Thank you for scheduling this in your 677 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: calendar and time boxing it and not looking at your phone, 678 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: although I did not either, And I look forward to 679 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: chatting again. 680 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 3: Soon my pleasure. Thank you so much. 681 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love to ask 682 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: a favor. Click follow on the podcast app that you're 683 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: listening to this on, and if you're feeling really generous, 684 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: leave a review for the show. Following this podcast and 685 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: leaving reviews helps How I Work find new listeners, and 686 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: your support is one of the things that makes this 687 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: podcast possible. Thank you for sharing part of your day 688 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: with me by listening to How I Work. 689 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 2: If you're keen for. 690 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: More tips on how to work better, connect with me 691 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. 692 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 2: I'm very easy to find. 693 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded 694 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of 695 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: the cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being 696 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: able to work and live on this beautiful land, and 697 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present 698 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium with 699 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this 700 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: episode was Liam Reardon, and thank you to Martin Nimba 701 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: who did the audio mix and makes everything sound better 702 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: than it would have otherwise.