WEBVTT - Has Australia changed since the Cronulla Riots?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the

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<v Speaker 1>Daily OS. It's Friday, the twelfth of December. I'm Lucy

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<v Speaker 1>Tassel and Tam Kazlauski. This week marks twenty years since

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<v Speaker 1>the Kronola Riots, when hundreds of angry, young white Australian

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<v Speaker 1>men descended on Kronulla train Station and Cronulla Beach in

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<v Speaker 1>Sydney's South, attacking people of Middle Eastern appearance. In today's episode,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll explain the context surrounding these riots, including the role

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<v Speaker 1>of radio broadcaster Alan Jones, what happened on the day itself,

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<v Speaker 1>and talk about how Australia has changed since them.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucy, one of the coolest parts of the way that

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<v Speaker 2>we do the news at TDA, in my humble opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>is taking a look at news events that happened when

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<v Speaker 2>our audience might have been too young to remember them

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<v Speaker 2>and actually acknowledging that even those events in early two

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<v Speaker 2>thousands are probably out of the lifespan, if not. I

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<v Speaker 2>mean I was in two thousand and five. I was eleven,

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<v Speaker 2>so young enough to start reading a newspaper, but mainly

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<v Speaker 2>for the Sudoku, and it's really important to explain this

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<v Speaker 2>context for the younger listeners, So why don't we start there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the best way to set the scene is, in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>not even specifically for younger listeners, but just in general

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not from Sydney, is to talk specifically about

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<v Speaker 1>where Cronulla is, and especially where Cronulla Beach is. So

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<v Speaker 1>Cronulla Beach is the only beach in Sydney that is

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<v Speaker 1>really really close to a train station, So Kronulla train

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<v Speaker 1>Station and Kernulla Beach very close together. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>short flat walk. If you're coming from Sydney's southern suburbs,

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<v Speaker 1>it's absolutely your most accessible beach, and that is a

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<v Speaker 1>really important detail. There are other, obviously many iconic beaches

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<v Speaker 1>in Sydney, but like if you're coming on public transport,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to transfer unless you're going to Cronulla. Suburbs

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<v Speaker 1>on the train line that lead directly to Cronulla include

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<v Speaker 1>places like Cogra, Hurstville and Rockdale where in the early

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<v Speaker 1>two thousands, I've done a bit of digging into censustata

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<v Speaker 1>From two thousand and one, a big proportion of residents

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<v Speaker 1>in those suburbs spoke a language other than English at

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<v Speaker 1>home and had been born in countries other than Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>That is in opposition to Cronulla about ten stops down

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<v Speaker 1>the train line, where in two thousand and one and

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<v Speaker 1>Cronulla eighty six point five percent of people's only spoke

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<v Speaker 1>English right at home and eighty percent were born either

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia or England. And both of those stats are

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<v Speaker 1>actually higher than the national results in Australia at the

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<v Speaker 1>time two thousand and one. And so all of that

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<v Speaker 1>is to say, you've got these suburbs north of Cronulla,

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<v Speaker 1>You've got Cronulla itself which is very Anglo, very English speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>and has this beach that's very accessible. It kind of

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<v Speaker 1>means that everything was uniquely positioned to become a flashpoint

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<v Speaker 1>in the early two thousands, a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Of a microcosm of the changing face of Australia in

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<v Speaker 2>the early two thousands as well. So what exactly kicked

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<v Speaker 2>off these riots?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, according to a police report from two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and five, on Sunday, the fourth of December two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>and five, at North Cronulla Beach, there was a verbal

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<v Speaker 1>confrontation between a group of Cronulla Life Savers and a

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<v Speaker 1>group of young men who were described as being of

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<v Speaker 1>Middle Eastern descent. This confrontation escalated into a physical fight.

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<v Speaker 1>And something I should note here also is that at

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<v Speaker 1>the time these weren't professional life they weren't being paid.

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<v Speaker 2>These lifesavers volunteer life savers.

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<v Speaker 1>Volunteer Life Savers at North Cronulla.

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<v Speaker 2>And so this is one week before the riots eventually

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<v Speaker 2>took Okay, cool, Yeah, So it's.

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<v Speaker 1>A summer Sunday, the fourth of December. One man was

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<v Speaker 1>found guilty of assault and a fray over the fight

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<v Speaker 1>the following year, So then that's Sunday, Monday, the fifth

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<v Speaker 1>of December two thousand and five. Alan Jones, who at

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<v Speaker 1>the time was the most popular breakfast radio presenter in Sydney,

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<v Speaker 1>took calls on his breakfast radio show about the fight.

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<v Speaker 1>So he aired from about five am to about ten

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<v Speaker 1>am every weekday morning in Sydney, and he was the

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<v Speaker 1>most listened to man on Sydney radio at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>According to a later review from Australia's media watchdog AKMA.

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<v Speaker 1>That Monday, Jones agreed with a caller who described the

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<v Speaker 1>fight as a quote horrendous bashing, and then Jones added

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<v Speaker 1>he gave his opinion that it had been perpetrated by again,

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<v Speaker 1>just to be clear his words, quote Middle Eastern grubs.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so a fight happens on Cronulla Beach on the Sunday,

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<v Speaker 2>it makes it to Sydney Radio on the Monday. How

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<v Speaker 2>do we get from that Monday Am call line to

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<v Speaker 2>the riots on the Sunday.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So every single weekday, Alan Jones's radio show airs

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<v Speaker 1>in the morning every single day that week he talks

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<v Speaker 1>about Cronulla and it's sort of sparked by this fight.

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<v Speaker 1>On Tuesday, he spoke to a caller who said, this

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<v Speaker 1>caller said they were from the Northern Beaches, and this

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<v Speaker 1>caller said that area doesn't have the same problem as

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<v Speaker 1>Cronulla quote because we don't have a rail line.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Interesting, and that goes back to that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>geographic context that you gave before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. On Wednesday, Jones read a letter from a

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<v Speaker 1>listener aloud and the letter said, quote, invite all the

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<v Speaker 1>biker gangs to be present at Cronulla railway station when

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<v Speaker 1>these Lebanese thugs arrive. Australians old and new should not

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<v Speaker 1>have to put up with this scum, so very intense words.

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<v Speaker 1>They're quite racist, I would say. And again, this is

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<v Speaker 1>just being broadcast on breakfast radio as people are dropping

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<v Speaker 1>the kids off at school on Sydney's most listened to

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<v Speaker 1>radio station.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was probably then, based on your account, the

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<v Speaker 2>first step in foreshadowing a future event, not necessarily just

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<v Speaker 2>a criticism and a review of the past event.

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<v Speaker 1>So Akima found broadcasting this letter quote was likely to

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<v Speaker 1>encourage violence or brutality, and quote was likely to vilify

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<v Speaker 1>people of Lebanese background and people of Middle Eastern background

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<v Speaker 1>on the basis of ethnicity. So Alan Jones was not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily expressing his own like those weren't his words, but

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<v Speaker 1>it was his choice to read that letter from a

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<v Speaker 1>listener allowed on the radio and then on Thursday. So

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<v Speaker 1>now we're entering the fourth day of Alan Jones talking

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<v Speaker 1>about this every single day on his radio show. He

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned some text messages that had been sent out.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so these are the mass texts and it's important

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of set the scene two thousand and five,

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<v Speaker 2>pre social media Facebook launched properly two thousand and seven,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this was the way that there was mass communication, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly It's kind of hard to imagine, but it

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<v Speaker 1>really was the easiest way to contact as many people

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<v Speaker 1>as possible was to text everyone in your phone and

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<v Speaker 1>say basically passed it on. Estimates suggest as many as

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred and seventy thousand people got one of a

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<v Speaker 1>series of texts. One of the texts that we know

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<v Speaker 1>about is one that called on quote every Aussie in

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<v Speaker 1>the area surrounding Cronulla to quote bash Lebanese and Middle

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<v Speaker 1>Eastern migrants, adding quote, let's show them that this is

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<v Speaker 1>our beach and they're never welcome talking about Cronulla. If

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<v Speaker 1>you weren't one of the two hundred and seventy thousand

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<v Speaker 1>people who got the text, you heard about it anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>because Alan Jones read it on air. Okay Akma notes

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<v Speaker 1>that immediately after reading this text, he said, quote, well,

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<v Speaker 1>now that's not the way. I do understand what you're saying,

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<v Speaker 1>but we've just got to back off a bit here.

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<v Speaker 1>But on his program that same day, in response to

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<v Speaker 1>a caller who called in saying, actually I have seen

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<v Speaker 1>people be racist towards Lebanese and Middle Eastern people on

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<v Speaker 1>Cronulla beach.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so kind of a contrarian viewed. Okay, that's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>So a caller called in to say, actually, I have

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<v Speaker 1>seen racism in action in Kronulla. Alan Jones said, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't have Anglo Saxon kids out there raping women

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<v Speaker 1>in western Sydney. AKMA found this and other comments made

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<v Speaker 1>by Jones that day were likely to vilify people of

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<v Speaker 1>Middle Eastern background on the basis of ethnicity. So comments

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<v Speaker 1>made by him, calls that were aired, AKHMA can make

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<v Speaker 1>these findings not necessarily about him specifically, but about the

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<v Speaker 1>radio station. So saying like, got it, it's at the

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<v Speaker 1>radio station's discretion to broadcast these things. So if you

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<v Speaker 1>broadcast a call two GB can get.

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<v Speaker 2>In trouble and just quickly worth noting. I mean, AKMA

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<v Speaker 2>is not the police, right, So there are media regulation watchdog.

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<v Speaker 2>They can hand out fines, they can kind of ban

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<v Speaker 2>people from appearing in certain contexts, but their powers are

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<v Speaker 2>not the same as law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, this isn't a criminal finding. This is just

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<v Speaker 1>AKMA saying this maybe shouldn't have been broadcast because it

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<v Speaker 1>could have had these effects.

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<v Speaker 2>Got it.

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<v Speaker 1>And then just to round out the week, on Friday,

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<v Speaker 1>a person called into Jones's show to suggest Muslim people

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<v Speaker 1>quote wanted to take over Australia. Then we have Saturday,

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<v Speaker 1>Alan Jones. Not on the the eleventh, the Sunday one

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<v Speaker 1>week since the altercation on Kronulla Beach is the day

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<v Speaker 1>of the riots.

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<v Speaker 2>And take me through that day. So we've just arrived

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<v Speaker 2>a week after a fight on the beach that has

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<v Speaker 2>been escalated via radio and text messages. We arrive on

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<v Speaker 2>that day. What does that day look like?

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<v Speaker 1>I think look like is the right way to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it, because when I think of the Kronola rights,

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<v Speaker 1>I think of the images. I think of the press

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<v Speaker 1>photographers who were there from places like the Australian Associated Press.

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<v Speaker 1>I think of photos of young, shirtless white men at

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<v Speaker 1>the beach with Southern Cross tattoos, maybe temporary tattoos, or

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<v Speaker 1>with anti immigration slogans on signs or even in some

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<v Speaker 1>cases painted on their bodies. I also think of the

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<v Speaker 1>images of crowds of white men running through the streets

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<v Speaker 1>of Cronulla, clashing with police, physically attacking men of any

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<v Speaker 1>other ethnicity. Reports of a man who was chased by

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of men into the North Cronulla Hotel where he

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<v Speaker 1>had to kind of find refuge inside this RSL attacking

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<v Speaker 1>two young men in a car who turned down the

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<v Speaker 1>wrong street. These two men were sort of beset by

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<v Speaker 1>these crowds. There were glass bottles were thrown at the car,

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<v Speaker 1>a window was broken, a man jumped on the hood

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<v Speaker 1>of the car. One big moment of the day, and

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<v Speaker 1>the thing that really comes to my mind when I

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<v Speaker 1>think of the Cronulla riots is what happened at the

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<v Speaker 1>train station. So according to contemporary accounts, crowds initially gathered

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<v Speaker 1>sort of peacefully to do a sort of show of

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<v Speaker 1>support for the lifeguard. That's what people who were there

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<v Speaker 1>tend to say. But then there were sort of calls

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<v Speaker 1>made in the crowd that like a train sort of

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<v Speaker 1>quote full of Lebanese people was arriving in the middle

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<v Speaker 1>of the day. There were not that many people on

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<v Speaker 1>the train, but anyone on the train who was a

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<v Speaker 1>man of color, a non white man, was met with

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of angry white Australian men, many of whom were

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<v Speaker 1>by that point drunk, who entered the train and began

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<v Speaker 1>physically assaulting them. And there's all these images of police

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<v Speaker 1>boarding the train carriage and like beating people away with

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<v Speaker 1>night sticks to get out of the train station.

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<v Speaker 2>Quite a few of those police officers have actually received

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<v Speaker 2>Bravery awards and recognition because of the actions that they

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<v Speaker 2>took on the train specifically.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's really quite extraordinary to look at

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<v Speaker 1>the Sydney Morning Herald also that day or the following

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<v Speaker 1>day reported a man ripped a hijab off a young

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<v Speaker 1>Muslim woman's head as she was trying to escape crowds

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<v Speaker 1>at the beach. And there are also many, many contemporary

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<v Speaker 1>videos of racist slogans being chanted by crowds.

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<v Speaker 2>I do want to touch on you just mentioned the

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<v Speaker 2>Sydney Morning Herald. You mentioned Australian Associated Press before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was an example of the importance of

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<v Speaker 2>good journalism as well, because we relied so heavily, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in the kind of pre social media era, on the

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<v Speaker 2>quality news reporting that probably the next day or later

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<v Speaker 2>that day online and some of these images are still

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<v Speaker 2>used in education and school curriculum around what multicultural Australia

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<v Speaker 2>looks like. And it's a real example for me of

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<v Speaker 2>journalism at its best.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because we didn't have camera phones really exactly, those

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<v Speaker 1>photographers and camera people and journalists being their other reason

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<v Speaker 1>we know exactly what happened and in what order.

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<v Speaker 2>So now it's twenty years since, give me a sense

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<v Speaker 2>of what has changed since then.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Alan Jones is off the air and has been

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<v Speaker 1>for many years, and it's currently facing court on separate

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<v Speaker 1>criminal allegations. Another point of change is actually in those

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<v Speaker 1>areas that I've mentioned, so Cronulla obviously, but also Rockdale,

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<v Speaker 1>Cogra and Hurstville. I had a look at some census

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<v Speaker 1>starter comparing two thousand and one to twenty twenty one.

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<v Speaker 1>What was really interesting to me was in Cronulla today

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<v Speaker 1>there's actually a higher percentage of people who were born

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<v Speaker 1>in Alia or England, while Australia wide those rates have

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<v Speaker 1>actually dropped.

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<v Speaker 2>So interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>And meanwhile in Cogra and Hurstville and Rockdale there's a

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<v Speaker 1>significantly higher percentage of people who were born overseas who

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<v Speaker 1>now live there or who are speaking a language other

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<v Speaker 1>than English at home than they were twenty years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>So these areas have become even more what they were, even.

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<v Speaker 2>More entrenched in those sorts of stereotypes that existed in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five. Yeah, and what can you tell

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<v Speaker 2>me then about how that fits into Australia more broadly?

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<v Speaker 1>Something that I found was interesting is so there was

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<v Speaker 1>a twenty twenty four report from the independent Scanlon Foundation

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<v Speaker 1>Research Institute, So they look at social cohesion, basically how

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<v Speaker 1>harmonious is Australia's society. For that twenty twenty four report,

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<v Speaker 1>researchers surveyed about six thousand Australians. They found that half

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<v Speaker 1>of those people believe Australia is accepting too many migrants,

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<v Speaker 1>that statistic has increased from pre COVID levels, and they

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<v Speaker 1>found that one in three Australia that they surveyed have

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<v Speaker 1>quote a somewhat or very negative attitude towards Muslims one

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<v Speaker 1>in three. Despite that, though, the institute found that seventy

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<v Speaker 1>one percent of these Australians said they believed quote accepting

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<v Speaker 1>immigrants from many different cultures makes Australia stronger, and eighty

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<v Speaker 1>five percent said multiculturalism had been good for Australia. So

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<v Speaker 1>sort of saying like, overall we think, yes, this was good,

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<v Speaker 1>but maybe right now we don't. But then there's also

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<v Speaker 1>I would say looking outside of data. I know I've

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<v Speaker 1>talked a lot about data, but the thing that reminded

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<v Speaker 1>me most of the Kronolar riots even though they weren't

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<v Speaker 1>really violent per se, were the much for Australia demonstrations.

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<v Speaker 2>Earlier this year, only a couple of months ago.

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<v Speaker 1>So while they didn't, as far as I'm aware, descend

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<v Speaker 1>into chasing down Australians of color in the street, I

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<v Speaker 1>think we can point to that as kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>closest event to the Chronolal riots, not being violent in

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<v Speaker 1>the same way, but just in terms of a demonstration

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<v Speaker 1>of mostly white Australians gathering to say we don't want

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<v Speaker 1>migration to this country, or we want a lot less

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<v Speaker 1>of it than we currently have.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've been hearing from Australia's security authorities for quite

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<v Speaker 2>a few years now that some of that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>far right extremism, the nationalism, that real kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>exhibition of behavior that we saw in Cronulla in two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and five is the biggest security threat to Australia

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<v Speaker 2>going forward. That's the view from Mike Burgess, the AZO chief.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's interesting that twenty years almost to the day

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<v Speaker 2>of the Cronulla Riots, and whilst quite a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>Australia has changed, and especially the demographics of Australia have

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<v Speaker 2>shifted a lot, as well, some of those core views

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<v Speaker 2>seem to have remained.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there were contemporary reports I was reading in

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<v Speaker 1>the Herald from two thousand and five that there were

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<v Speaker 1>people of known white supremacist neo Nazi groups on the

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.600
<v Speaker 1>ground in Cronulla that day in two thousand and five,

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<v Speaker 1>and as we know, they have only sort of come

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<v Speaker 1>out more into the open since then.

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<v Speaker 2>A really important part of Australia's modern history. Lucy, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much for take us through that. Thanks Sam,

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<v Speaker 2>and thank you for joining us on the Daily OS

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<v Speaker 2>for that episode. A big week of news, and we've

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<v Speaker 2>got one more pod for you later this afternoon with

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<v Speaker 2>the evening's headlines. Until then, have a great day.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.