1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: When I say workplace culture, one company that probably comes 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: to mind for almost everyone is Google. Whether it's the 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: sprawling open plan officers that were all the rage for 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: tech companies in the twenty tens, the free gourmet meals 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: for staff, or their relentless pursuit of innovation. Google's been 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: on a mission to acquire and retain the world's top 7 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: talent for a very long time now. So when Mel's Silver, 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: who's Google's managing director in Australia and New Zealand, tells 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: you how to improve your company's culture, you'd know that 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: she's probably onto something. Mel's been with Google for sixteen 11 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: years now, and she's worked with countless incredible mentors and 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: mentees along the way. So what are the most important 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: lessons Mel has learned from her time at Google. How 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: does she use her leadership expertise not only in her 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: work life, but also in her family life. How does 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: she structure what she calls her thinking days. 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: My name is doctor Amantha Imber. 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium. 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: And this is how I work. 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: A show about how to help you do your best work? Now, 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,279 Speaker 1: something that you do our thinking days, which I find 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: very interesting. Can you tell me what is the thinking day? 24 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 3: So a thinking day is one day every six weeks, 25 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 3: very much enabled by the wonderful powers of my executive assistant, 26 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 3: where I just take myself out of the game, get 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: off the dance floor, get onto the balcony, whatever the 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: sort of leadership be term you want to use, and 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 3: I carve it up into sort of three sections so 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 3: that I can get into serious flow. Like the origin 31 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: story of the thinking day for me was I went 32 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 3: to this course and it was probably about a less 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: than a year into taking the job back in Australia, 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 3: and I just realized I was like a slave to 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 3: my diary, like people were putting stuff in, people were 36 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 3: telling me what I should be thinking about. And I 37 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 3: knew that there was so much I wanted to think about, 38 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: but I just couldn't find the time. And I went 39 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 3: to this course that was all about sustaining high performance 40 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: for females within Google, and we got a kind of 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: deep dive into this concept of flow, like getting yourself 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 3: putting the phone down, turning it around, giving yourself no distractions, 43 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: and giving yourself time to think about it. And I 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: just thought, if I don't create some sort of intervention here, 45 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: it's never going to happen. I'm never going to get 46 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: an hour and a half free just by chance. And 47 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 3: so I first started out by carving out time in 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 3: the morning two days a week, and it just wasn't 49 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: working for me. 50 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 4: Why Why is that? 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 3: I'm a working mom and like by the time I 52 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 3: get to the office some days like I've run a marathon, 53 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: you know, like I've dropped two kids off at school, 54 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: I've forgotten to order lunch orders, I've got phone call, 55 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 3: you know. So it's just you're not in good flow state. 56 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 3: And so I sat down with my assistant and I said, 57 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: how do you think we can make this work? And 58 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,839 Speaker 3: she said, We're just going to give you a date 59 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: every six weeks. And so it's just there. 60 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 4: It's a block. It's unbookable. But the key to it 61 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 4: is the prep right. 62 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: The key to it is getting the three topics that 63 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 3: I want to think deeply about, at least a straw 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 3: man of those and some questions, because if I need 65 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 3: data or inputs, I want it beforehand. And usually the 66 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: output of them is an incredible mind map about thirty 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: five new questions to go and talk to different people 68 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 3: about or in the really great cases, a scoping doc 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: of some stuff that we need to do and some 70 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 3: deliverables that we should probably be putting out into the world. 71 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: So I just I don't know what I do without 72 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: them now, to be honest, they are a game changer 73 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 3: for me. 74 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: What's an example of a challenge that you bring to 75 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: a thinking day? 76 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 3: So really good topical one most recently was, you know, 77 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 3: I think the world is going through, especially working people, 78 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 3: a huge shift right now. Google's always had this wonderful culture, 79 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 3: and it's known for great food and great officers, and 80 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: you know, there's a whole bunch of people who've been 81 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: through three and a half years of you know, just 82 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 3: NonStop kind of stress and resilience, and you know there's 83 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 3: macro uncertainty out there, and I just kind of think, 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 3: I thought to myself, do we have programs right now 85 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 3: that are fit for purpose in terms of what kind 86 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 3: of culture and capability that we are trying to build 87 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: in our organization? Is it still fit for purpose? Do 88 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: we need a bit of a course correction? And I 89 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: knew we had a leadership off site coming out up, 90 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 3: and so I just wanted us to be really intentional 91 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 3: about the questions that we were going to ask of 92 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 3: each other and the sort of strategic imperatives that we 93 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 3: wanted to deliver on. So I ended up creating a 94 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 3: bit of a table which was like, what was it 95 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 3: like before, what is it like now? How do we 96 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: think Googlers feel about it? And what's the strategic imperative 97 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 3: that comes off the back of that, And it just 98 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 3: ended up being a wonderful discussion guide for our offsite. 99 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 3: So things like that, which again you never really carve 100 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 3: out time to think about if you just go through 101 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 3: the motions of rocking up to the meetings that people 102 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: want to have. 103 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: So how then do you prepare for your thinking days? 104 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: What does that process look like? 105 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's generally three really high level questions and they 106 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: will come up over the course of six weeks. So 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: there's usually like a page at the back of the 108 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: notebook where it's like thinking day kind of ideas, and 109 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 3: then the week before I'll distill it down and kind 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: of think about the stuff that I really want to 111 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 3: focus on, choose the three and then do the kind 112 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 3: of gathering that I need for that. Sometimes on a 113 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: thinking day as well, I'll carve out some of that 114 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: time to have a session with my coach. And that's 115 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 3: also great because I come out of those really energized. 116 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: It's great prep for a mind map. 117 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 2: Now. 118 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: I know when we spoke before this interview, you were 119 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: talking about how Barred, which is Google's version of Chat GPT, 120 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: was also quite helpful in helping you prep for these days. 121 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: I want to take a step back first because and 122 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: I guess for those that haven't tried bard, and I 123 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: think it's still in beta mode. 124 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: Is that right? 125 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 3: Join in Australia on a waiting list and you can 126 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 3: get access now. 127 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 128 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: Now, I've had a few people from Google on the 129 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: show over the years, and one of my favorites was 130 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: Laura may Martin's great Yeah. So she's Google's executive productivity 131 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: advisor and helped top execs be more productive. 132 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: And I've gotten some. 133 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: Great tips from her about Google Calendar and Gmail. I 134 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: know that you think quite deeply, along with your an 135 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: executive assistant, around how you use Google Calendar. 136 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 2: Can you tell me how you think about g cal 137 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: And I. 138 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: Guess you also think about it quite strategically in terms 139 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: of looking back over it. Yeah, so I think the 140 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: way I work with my assistant is so important. Here 141 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: she color codes my diary, which serves a whole bunch 142 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: of purposes, some very strategic and some very practical, like 143 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: being able to look at your calendar in the morning 144 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: and know if you have something external will actually impact 145 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: what you. 146 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 4: Wear that day. 147 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: So that's just a quick glance in the morning, is 148 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 3: there any blue righte need the good sneakers today? But 149 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 3: what it also enables is this kind of tagging of 150 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: the event, so that at the end of a quarter 151 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 3: we can go back and say, right, she says to me, 152 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 3: mel this is where you spent your time this quarter, 153 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: and is that right? Does that feel right in terms 154 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 3: of your priorities? And so for me, it's things like 155 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 3: external relationships, one on ones with team members, what kind 156 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 3: of topics we're talking about, and so it's just a 157 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 3: really good gauge of whether things are going to plan 158 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: or not. But what sits behind that is this being 159 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: intentional about your time. 160 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 4: Right. 161 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: And I've said this so many times I feel like 162 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 3: a bit of a broken record, but I don't want 163 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 3: to be the busiest person. I don't want to have 164 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: the busiest calendar. That's the most packed. What I want 165 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: to be is the most impactful person. And if you 166 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 3: don't measure these things, then you can't manage them. And 167 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: so the color coding for us is just a great tool. 168 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 4: And even with things like this is for the kids. 169 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 4: I need to go. 170 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: I need to be there for this particular thing, so 171 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 3: I know where that is, and she knows where that is, 172 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 3: and she knows that it's a not bookable over type thing. 173 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 4: So it's just a really good I don't know, it 174 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 4: just speeds things up. I guess, what are. 175 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: The different colors that you like? The different categories of 176 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: work that have their own color. 177 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's internal events, there's like ads, business type stuff, 178 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 3: there's broader cross functional all of Google type stuff. Internal external, 179 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 3: so whether it's with a partner or not. There's kids. 180 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 3: I mean, there's I think there's about nine or ten 181 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 3: different colors that going on. We've used all the colors. 182 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 3: I know, we've maxed out colors. And then there's actually 183 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: one for like do not schedule, which is thinking time 184 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 3: right or work time that she knows that I've got to, 185 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: you know, I need to spend some time doing something, 186 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: preparing for a meeting or whatever. 187 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 4: It might be. 188 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: How do you decide what percentage of time is the 189 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: right amount to be dedicating to those different broad categories 190 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: of work. 191 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's less about this needs to be fifty 192 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 3: percent of my time and more about hang on, it 193 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 3: should definitely be more than ten, you know, Like it's 194 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 3: it's more about tweaking as opposed to sort of setting 195 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 3: guidelines and making sure we stick to them. But it's 196 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 3: just more of a lead in decatur of our things 197 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: on track or not, as opposed to a quota, you 198 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: know what I mean. 199 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: I know something else that you do is you've only 200 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: got one calendar as opposed to several, which I found 201 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: interesting because in my own life, I've got three calendars. 202 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: I've got my work calendar, I've got my personal calendar, 203 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: which is also my daughter's commitments as well, and then 204 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: I've got to shared calendar with my partner and it 205 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: can be. 206 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 4: A bit messy. 207 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: So tell me about only having one calendar. 208 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 3: Well, I only have one life, and you know, it's 209 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 3: just about shortcuts really for me. I mean, I do 210 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 3: think that philosophically, I bring my whole self to work, 211 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: and you know, at home, everyone needs to understand that 212 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 3: mum's mum works that my partner understands that I work, 213 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 3: but having one view of everything is just convenient to me, 214 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: Like I will double book on myself if I have 215 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 3: one calendar here in one calendar there. So I think 216 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: of it is if someone does send me an invite 217 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 3: to a personal Gmail thing, I can actually see it 218 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: in that one space. 219 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: But for me, it's just a speed of what's going on. 220 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 3: You know, birthday parties are in their swimming lessons, are 221 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: in their netballs in there. 222 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 4: You know, it's just this is my whole being. 223 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: Now. 224 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: I want to talk about advice because you've been at 225 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: Google for sixteen years. 226 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 4: I was five when I started. 227 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: I've been running inventing for sixteen years, and I too 228 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: was five. 229 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 2: When we son of that business, very young. 230 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: I want to know what's the best advice you've received 231 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: from fellow Googlers over that period of time. 232 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, radical candor is something that I 233 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 3: am a big fan of and the best And for 234 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 3: those that haven't heard of the term radical candor, it 235 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 3: has I guess become popularized over the years. 236 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 2: Can you define what it what it is? 237 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 3: So it's just being brutally honest with people and being 238 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 3: really direct. I has actually written a book written by 239 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: a googleer, Kim Scott. 240 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 4: I think her name was a Is. She's still with. 241 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: Us, but you know, she's got this really incredible model 242 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 3: of you know, are you just working in ruinous empathy? 243 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 4: Are you trying to be too nice? 244 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: And you know, all these different models, and I think 245 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 3: this concept of being really direct with someone. 246 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 4: The example she gives is, you know, I was sitting 247 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 4: in a meeting and. 248 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: My boss after the meeting said to me, you know, 249 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: when you say too much, it makes you sound really dumb, 250 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: which like what a sting, right, But I just think 251 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 3: I am the sort of person who responds best to 252 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: hearing it right before, right between the eyeballs, you know. 253 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 3: And I had a great boss and he said to me, 254 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: you know, you've got this incredible fire in the belly. 255 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 4: You're really commercial. 256 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: People follow you, but you've really got to watch your 257 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: p's and q's, like you've got to know when is 258 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 3: the time you really have to develop that skill. And 259 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 3: it was just such a powerful piece of feedback to 260 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 3: me because I think I had you know, I'd grown 261 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: up in a time where I was I'd grown up 262 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: in banking. I'd grown up in environments where that kind 263 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 3: of I hate to say it, but it's like boys' 264 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: locker room type language and stuff was just the norm, 265 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: and you almost felt like you had to. 266 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 4: Be that way. I think I was that way anyway, 267 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 4: so don't get me wrong, but you there was this. 268 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,599 Speaker 3: Kind of acceptance of that, and he just said to me, 269 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 3: you know, you will have much more cut through when 270 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 3: you know when and how to play those levers. And 271 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 3: it just enabled me to go away and think about 272 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: it and put it into practice without losing who I 273 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 3: was as a person, still being really direct and still 274 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 3: being really you know, I bring levity to situations. That's 275 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: one of my superpowers. It doesn't mean being serious and 276 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: losing my personality. It means just knowing when to play 277 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 3: the card right. 278 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: I can imagine hearing feedback like that could feel like 279 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: it's an attack on you and your personality. How do 280 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: you work through applying the feedback as opposed to I 281 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: don't know, getting really defensive and going no, no, that's 282 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: a part of me. You're asking me to fundamentally change. 283 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: So do you know why I think I remember that 284 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: particular piece of feedback so well. Is because he coupled 285 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 3: it with my strength, and he said, you have this 286 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: fire in your belly. 287 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 4: I love it. You have this commercial acumen. I love it. 288 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 4: People will follow you. Don't stuff it up. 289 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 3: Like it's and so it kind of appreciated who I was, 290 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 3: and it like it really affirmed all of the good 291 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: things about my personality. And the same time as him 292 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: coming across as I'm giving you this is a gift, Right, 293 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: it's always going to sting to hear feedback that, even 294 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: if it's just constructive stuff about the way you run 295 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 3: a meeting, or if it's got nothing to do with 296 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: your personality, good feedback I think has to sting. Otherwise 297 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 3: it's not going to be heard or felt right. Otherwise, 298 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: I think you're in realiness empathy mode. 299 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 4: But you know, I think over the years, you realize that. 300 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 3: You're only getting that feedback because someone really cares about 301 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: your development. Right if you go through a relationship with 302 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: a boss or with an employee and all you ever 303 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: say to them is you're great, don't worry about it. 304 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 3: That there's a version of that that's like, well, I 305 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: don't really care, you know, keep doing what you're doing. 306 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: You lean in when you really care about someone. 307 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: Now you have a coach, and I think it's really 308 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: hard finding a good I mean it's hard finding those 309 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: good kind of like support people in your life, whether 310 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: it's a therapist, a psychologist, a coach. 311 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: How did you find your coach? 312 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 3: Well, Google actually put me in touch with my coach, 313 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 3: and it started out as quite a specific purpose. So 314 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: I had just taken on a new role, like an 315 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 3: expanded role, and the leadership team, the leadership development team, 316 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 3: came and said, hey, you know you're about to do 317 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: this thing. Would you like to have a coach for 318 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: a couple of sessions just to kind of bang some 319 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 3: stuff out? 320 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 4: And I was like, yeah, sure, great, and we just 321 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 4: hit it off. 322 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 3: And so I think at the end of every ten 323 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: sessions I would go begging and pleading to please, can 324 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 3: I keep the coach? And they'd be like yeah, yeah, yeah. 325 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: And then you know, I think it's probably ten years 326 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: now that I've had the same coach and he's incredible. 327 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me, what are some of the most important 328 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: things that he's taught you and helped you with? 329 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 4: Ah? 330 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 3: Well, geez, again, this is a whole other podcast, the 331 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: most impactful one, like the one that has changed me 332 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 3: the most is coming to groups with that in a 333 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: critic right, So I have a tendency to be quite catastrophic, 334 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 3: and I have a tendency to make it all my 335 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 3: fault in my mind. And he has just been so 336 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: instrumental in helping me come to terms with that, but 337 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: not not by ignoring it, by accepting that that's a 338 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 3: huge part of who I am, being proud of why 339 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 3: that is there, and then just being great at consciously 340 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: pushing it to the back. So I'll give you an example. 341 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 3: You know something goes wrong, my brain goes, this is. 342 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 4: All your fault, Like, how did you get the whites? 343 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 3: Did you found? I'm now able to go this is 344 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: what you do all the time. The reason why you 345 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 3: do that is because you've got really high standards and 346 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 3: you don't ever want to be the person who has 347 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 3: let the team down. But hear the voice, know that 348 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: it's probably going to be ten times more than the 349 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 3: reality of the situation. 350 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 4: Put it back, turn the volume down on that voice. Go. 351 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: So he gave me like a bus visual, Like you're 352 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 3: driving the bus and there's someone who's like screaming in 353 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 3: your ear. Just send them to the back of the 354 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 3: bus that has completely changed me, completely changed who I 355 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: am and the way I think about myself and the 356 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 3: way I judge myself. Made me so much more confident 357 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 3: in myself because I'm actually proud now that I have 358 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 3: that little voice. I'm proud that it keeps me grounded, 359 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 3: like it keeps me hungry, and it pushes me, but 360 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: it can also bring me all the way down. 361 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 4: If I don't watch it. 362 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: We will be back with Melson talking about how she 363 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: approaches people development in a really simple but really impactful way. 364 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: You're looking for more tips to improve the way that 365 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: you work. I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains 366 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that helped me work better, 367 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: ranging from software and gadgets that I'm loving through the 368 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: interesting research findings. You can sign up for that at 369 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: Howiwork dot cod That's how I Work dot co. Now 370 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: I know that you're really passionate about people development and 371 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: you have office hours, yes, and joke, can you tell 372 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: me about that? 373 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: So office hours is a couple of half hour slots 374 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 3: every week that anyone can just book and come in. 375 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: I actually just came off the back of some the 376 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: Melbourne office and look, ninety nine percent of the time 377 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 3: people are having a career conversation. So they sometimes they'll 378 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: bring in a performance development plan, or they'll bring in 379 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 3: their kind of goals or chat them through, or they'll 380 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 3: have a job that they're thinking about that they want 381 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: to kind of bash out so people can use them 382 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: for whatever they want. But most of time it is 383 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 3: about people development. I mean, I think you know, I 384 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: have been at Google for a long time and I've 385 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 3: had sort of two stints in the Australia team, and 386 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 3: you know, we've done incredible things, and we've built wonderful products, 387 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 3: and we've helped advertisers all around the country. But man, 388 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 3: the dopamine hits when you see someone who you hired 389 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 3: sixteen years ago become a director, or you see them 390 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 3: in a job that's in a completely different team and 391 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 3: they are just nailing it. I don't think there's a 392 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 3: better dopamine hit that you get from seeing that and 393 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 3: knowing and because we have a culture where that sort 394 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 3: of seeking advice and helping and coaching is part of 395 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 3: the part of it. The full circle, like people thank 396 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 3: you for it. They come back and they or they 397 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 3: write you a card, or you know, little things like that, 398 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 3: and you don't do it for that, but you do 399 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 3: feel like it's just a whole new source of I 400 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 3: don't know, inspiration and gratitude, and yeah, it's my favorite 401 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: thing to do. It's one of the things that fills 402 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 3: the cup, not grains the cup. And that's kind of 403 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 3: you know, in terms of managing your energy, I think 404 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 3: in senior roles, you do have to kind of go 405 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 3: in knowing that if I just go with the flow here, 406 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: my energy will be completely depleted at the end of 407 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 3: every day. So what am I actively doing to top 408 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 3: it up? Office hours is one of them. 409 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: M Yeah, Now you're a parent as well. You have 410 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: three kids and two ten and thirteen. 411 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: I think in their ages. 412 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: It said that you have a weekly spreadsheet with your 413 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: partner to manage everything parenting. 414 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 2: Can you tell me what. 415 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 4: That looks like? 416 00:21:53,359 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 3: So it's a spreadsheet with a few tabs, so you know, 417 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 3: there was actually a new tab added last week because 418 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 3: I was away and there was just a whole bunch 419 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 3: of stuff that was going on. 420 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 4: And you know, it's like military. 421 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 3: Kind of level logistics when you have a teenager, a tween, 422 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 3: and a toddler, and so for my husband having to 423 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: do all three, like look after all three of them 424 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 3: last week on his own. 425 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 4: That was like major. 426 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 3: So there were you know, maybe a couple of times 427 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: there were ubers involved in bringing children school, but you know, 428 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 3: there was like an early netball camp, and there was 429 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 3: you know, tapping into the network of amazing mothers that 430 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: support each other in this sort of world. You know, 431 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: like so this person's picking up this child for that 432 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 3: day and this. You know, so it was just kind 433 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 3: of it's just a matter of putting it all on 434 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 3: one piece of paper. You know, we're both busy people, right, 435 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 3: so just having a go to on your phone that 436 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 3: you can go, yep, this is what's going on today 437 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: is just easier. But you know, on the other spreadsheet, 438 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 3: there's here's the homework that this middle one needs to 439 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 3: get done this week, and this is what we need 440 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 3: to check at the end of every day. 441 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 4: And you know, so look, it's just logistics, man. 442 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it probably speaks to some sort of control 443 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 3: thing that I have. It feels better once you've written 444 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 3: it down, you know, and you've got the structure and 445 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 3: you know it's doable. 446 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 4: Otherwise you just think it's impossible. 447 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: How do you think about parenting and the time that 448 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: you do spend with your kids. Given like you're in 449 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: a job that's demanding and it requires travel. 450 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I try. I just try to 451 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 3: be as present as I can. I don't win all 452 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 3: the time, but it's about finding those moments that matter. 453 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,239 Speaker 3: I think when you're you know, so I pick up 454 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 3: my daughter from school on a certain day and that's 455 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 3: just like not negotiable, and that's our time together. 456 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 4: You know. I do nepple on the weekends. 457 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 3: I mean, it's a great way just to connect with 458 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 3: other parents, but for her to know that Mum sees 459 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 3: me there, that's really important. I drive my eldest son 460 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 3: to school and that's really good chat time because he's 461 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 3: at the age of he doesn't want to necessarily look 462 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 3: you in the face all the time. But you know, 463 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 3: that's that's our connection time. It's about making the time. 464 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,199 Speaker 4: You have work. You know. 465 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 3: I grew up in a household where my mum ran 466 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 3: a small business. You know, our laundroom was the boardroom, 467 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 3: it was the operations center, you know, And so I 468 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 3: think I had a kind of good schooling in Hey, 469 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: this is mum time, and sometimes mum's got meetings at night, 470 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 3: And it doesn't mean that I ever thought she was less. 471 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 4: Of a mum. So I mean, yeah, I don't know. 472 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: I just I feel like there's all this kind of 473 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 3: pressure about how mums should be and all this kind 474 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 3: of stuff. I just want to be the mum they 475 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 3: call when something goes wrong. That's kind of my north star. 476 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 3: And so how do you cultivate that relationship over the 477 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 3: course of you know, probably thirteen or fourteen years, by 478 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 3: the time they start getting into those situations. 479 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 4: Being the one that they can talk to. 480 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 3: So I don't pride myself on necessarily have we made 481 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 3: cookies today? Yes, great, we've made cookies today. And great 482 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 3: if you make cookies like that, if that's your thing 483 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 3: with your kids, awesome. But for me, it's just about 484 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 3: making sure individually they have some time with one another 485 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: and knowing. I think the beauty of the smaller child 486 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 3: is that he's given us this perspective that life changes 487 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 3: a lot. There's a big difference between eight and ten, 488 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 3: there's a big difference between one and three, and so 489 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 3: you know, like if we're in a crazy phase now, 490 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 3: it'll be really different in six months time. So let's 491 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 3: not beat ourselves up over the fact of what we 492 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 3: can and can't do. And if I've got to travel 493 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 3: this week, that doesn't delete every bit of parenting that 494 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 3: we've done the week before. 495 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: You know, So, what are your principles around technology and screens. 496 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 4: For your kids? 497 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's a fascinating question because I've got 498 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 3: three kids and they are all super different, right, and again, phases, 499 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 3: reasons and seasons. There was definitely I've always sort of 500 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 3: had the here's the rope, like you stuff it up, basically, 501 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: like I'm going to trust you, here are the boundaries, 502 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 3: and if you break them, then I pull back. But 503 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,640 Speaker 3: I guess the first principle is I don't believe that 504 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 3: it's evil. 505 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 4: I believe that. 506 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: You know, my son, when he was little, learned how 507 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: to sing, you know, let it go in twenty five 508 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 3: languages by watching YouTube. Now he is really into art, 509 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: so he will sit there and watch videos about how 510 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 3: to draw an eye. I think that's a good use 511 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: of screen time if he also then watches anime and 512 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 3: so I don't think it's a one size fits all. 513 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: I think it's what you're doing on there. My daughter 514 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 3: is at a different phase in her life, and it's 515 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,360 Speaker 3: completely different usage and so it requires a completely different style. 516 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 3: And so it's almost like leadership at work, as horrible 517 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 3: as that might sound, but there's no one size fits all. 518 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 3: It's like, what motivates you is not what motivates another person. 519 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 3: And the things that we need to develop with you 520 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 3: are different to the thing that we need to develop 521 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 3: with the other one. So I think it's about being 522 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 3: a little bit more nuanced. But the reality is technology 523 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 3: is going to be part of their world. So I 524 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 3: want them to be the boss of their boundaries, just 525 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 3: like I want my folks at work to be the 526 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: boss of their boundaries as well. 527 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: Something I've been thinking and writing a lot about this 528 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 1: year is health, and that's the topic of the current 529 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: book that I'm working on. And I'm curious, like, in 530 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: amongst all the different responsibilities that you have, where does 531 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: looking after both physical and mental health for you? How 532 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: do you think about that? And where do you find time? 533 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 4: Such a great timely question. 534 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 3: So I actually was lucky enough yesterday to interview James 535 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 3: Clear for an event we had here in Melbourne. 536 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 4: And I'm a huge fan of that book. 537 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 3: But earlier this well, actually when I came back from 538 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 3: matt led sort the beginning of last year. While I 539 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: was on maternity lab, I had the best sort. 540 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 4: Of regime of my life. 541 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 3: I was walking every day, I was yogaing every day. 542 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 3: I was exercising every day. I you know, like I 543 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 3: had time to cook really great healthy meals. Like the 544 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 3: yoga was the mental health break as well. Everyone was 545 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 3: at home, so I got breaks from the you know, 546 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 3: I was living my best life, let's just put it 547 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 3: that way. And I came back to work and Amantha, 548 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: it just all vanished. It just all slipped away. And 549 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 3: despite the best of intentions like Okay, I'm going to 550 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 3: get up a five thirty and I'm going to do 551 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 3: yoga and I'm going. 552 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 4: To do Mama forget it right. 553 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 3: And of course it takes me about six months to 554 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 3: kind of realize that that's happening. And so I read 555 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: Atomic Habits and I thought, Okay, I'm just going to 556 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: do this, like one percent of thing. I'm just going 557 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 3: to try. I just want to master the artist showing 558 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: up and it's actually in the dio. It's the hack 559 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 3: for me has been I bought myself a new fit 560 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 3: bid so I've gamer fighter I've made a detractive and 561 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: it's sort of quite obvious when there is a half 562 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 3: an hour break in my diary, I leave the office 563 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 3: and I go walk twice around the block. When I 564 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 3: spoke to you, I was walking around the block, and 565 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: so that's where I'm at right now. But I've also 566 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 3: realized that in a year's time, when the baby's a 567 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 3: little bit older, that these things become easier, right, And 568 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 3: so I'm just not I'm just being kind to myself, 569 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: to be honest. But the identity that I'm trying to 570 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 3: kind of manifest is I want to master the art 571 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 3: of showing up. 572 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 4: I want to take advantage of the moments that I have. 573 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 3: And I just want to be the sort of person 574 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 3: that takes time for themselves. A lot of anger that 575 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: I hear from working mums is everybody takes from me, 576 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 3: and I just don't want to ever kind of foster 577 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 3: that resentment. I just I want to be even if 578 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 3: it's five minutes, that's enough. You know, I've done like 579 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 3: I've dropped one of my kids off really early in 580 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: the morning, just done a sneaky trip down to this cliff, 581 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 3: sat there for five minutes. How did a quick little meditation. 582 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 4: That's enough. That's enough right now. 583 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 3: So it's going to be kind to myself. 584 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 2: I love that, Mel. 585 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: For people that want to connect with you, what is 586 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: the best way to do that? 587 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 4: Well, LinkedIn is wide open, baby. 588 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 3: LinkedIn is definitely the best of plays because I do 589 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 3: keep the other socials private just because you know, I 590 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 3: want to be able to send photos of my kids 591 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 3: to my mum. Had of being open to the whole 592 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 3: universe to sy But yeah, for sure on LinkedIn, and 593 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 3: it's a very busy channel. 594 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 4: I can imagine. 595 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 2: I can imagine. 596 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: I feel like you're about to be inundated with many 597 00:31:56,080 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: messages on LinkedIn. Mel, this has just been such absolute joy. 598 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: As I said when we connected, and fratuitously we got 599 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: connected by someone at Google. You've been on kind of 600 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: my hit list in my mind for how I work 601 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: for a while now, and I'm so glad that we 602 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: could make this happen. It's just been just a joy 603 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: to hear about how you think about work. 604 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 4: Thanks, Aman, there's been so wonderful to be here. I 605 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 4: hope that. 606 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: You enjoyed this chat with Mel. I must say she 607 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: was such fun to talk to and her energy I 608 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: must say is so contagious. If you enjoyed this episode 609 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: and you know someone else who would benefit, why not 610 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: share it with them? And if you're enjoying How I Work, 611 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could take a few seconds 612 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: to leave a review in the Apple Podcasts app or 613 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to this podcast from Thank you for 614 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: sharing part of your day with me by listening to 615 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: How I Work. 616 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 2: If you're keen for. 617 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: More tips on how to work better, connect with me 618 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy to find. Just 619 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: search for Amantha Imba. How I Work was recorded on 620 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: the traditional land of the Warrenery people, part of the 621 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: cool And Nation. I am so grateful for being able 622 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: to work and live on this beautiful land and I 623 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. 624 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventium with production support 625 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: from Dead Set Studios. 626 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: The producer for this episode was 627 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: Liam Riordan, and thank you to Martin Nimba who did 628 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: the audio mix and makes everything sound better than it 629 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: would have otherwise.