1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: The world of work has been turned on its head 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: in recent years. Employee expectations are rapidly evolving, but our 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: leaders and organizations keeping up. Today's guest is one of 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: my Inventium teammates, Charlotte Rush, and she has been on 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: a mission to find out. As part of Inventium's Future 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: of Work research project, Charlotte and her team dove deep 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: into the academic literature and interview top executives at companies 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: like at Lassian, Seek, and Unilever to uncover the key trends, challenges, 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: and opportunities facing today's workplaces. In this episode, which is 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: the first in a two part series, Charlotte and I 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: go through some practical strategies for uncovering what really. 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: Matters to your team. So if you want to know 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: why you. 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Should ditch exit interviews, conduct a Wheel of Life exercise 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: with your team and adopt an approach of radical transparency. 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: And I discuss all that and more. My name is 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: doctor Amantha Imbert. I'm an organizational psychologist and founder of 18 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: Behavior change consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the show about how to help you get so much 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: more out of the hours in your day. For the 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: last few months, my team at Inventium has been deep 22 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: into researching key trends impacting today's workplaces and what the 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: future holds. One of my teammates, shah Rush, who is 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: a fellow organizational psychologist, has led the research, and we 25 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: start by talking about what made us even undertake this 26 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: project in the first place. 27 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: So last year I went away for a few months 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 3: and then I came back to Sydney, Australia and went 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 3: back to work, and I felt so unsure of what 30 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: was going on in the world because I've been away 31 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: for a few months, and I just wanted to really 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: understand a little bit more about what was happening with 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 3: workplaces and leaders and people in culture. Obviously things had 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 3: settled post COVID, but I really wanted to do a 35 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: bit more of a deep dive and really understand how 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: work was changing and what challenges leaders were really focusing 37 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 3: on and going to focus on moving forward. We started 38 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: this project called the Future of Work Research Project, and 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: I got another psychologist to help me. Her name is 40 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 3: Samantha Bala from Deacon University, and we basically decided to 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: go out and do a bit of desk research looking 42 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 3: at the academic and the. 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 4: Gray literature review of the research. 44 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 3: Look for some kind of key trends and then go 45 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 3: and speak to fifteen executives from large organizations across Australia 46 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: and understand what was happening for them, What were the 47 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: biggest challenges that they were facing, what was keeping them 48 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: up at night, what were they excited about? And that's 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 3: what really led to our future of work white paper. 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: So one of the things that the research uncovered is 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: just how dramatically employee expectations are changing and how much 52 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: they really have changed in the last five years in 53 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: this post COVID world. And I wanted to know, if you, 54 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: because I know we've both been thinking about this, how 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: have your expectations changed of what you expect at Inventium, 56 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: which is where you've been for like the last seven 57 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: eight years. 58 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: How have your expectations changed? 59 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: And I feel like I should have asked this not 60 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: in a podcast but actually in our one on ones. 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: But hey, let's go, let's go there now. 62 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: I think my biggest change in expectations was when I 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: first joined Inventium. So I went from working in a 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 3: large professional services firm where the Sydney office had like 65 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 3: five hundred people, and then I joined Inventium and when 66 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 3: we opened the Sydney office, and we had three of 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: us in the Sydney office, and so just kind of 68 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: adjusting my expectation of what my team looked like and 69 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: what it looked like to spend an average working day 70 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 3: with my team, where some days I just wouldn't see 71 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 3: my team at all, some days I'd be out with clients, 72 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: some days I'd be at home. And so that journey 73 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: really started like eight years ago of me really embracing 74 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: hybrid work. And I feel like all of the conversations 75 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: that a lot of organizations and leaders are having now 76 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 3: our conversations that actually we were having back then in 77 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: like twenty sixteen in terms of like we used to 78 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: have those culture days of Monday and Friday in the 79 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: office and Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday could go wherever you like, 80 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 3: Like so twenty sixteen, right. 81 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Wait, we had anchor days, didn't we? 82 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 4: Yes, we did. 83 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 3: And then I guess more recently, I think my expectations 84 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 3: have really changed in terms of looking outside of INVENTINGUM 85 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 3: and thinking about what is possible for our clients and 86 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 3: for organizations, like I feel like, I have such higher 87 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: expectations now of what kind of the extent of change 88 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: that we could see in organizations Like we've seen the 89 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 3: big ex bariment of remote work. Everyone has seen that 90 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: it worked, And now I'm really looking at these organizations 91 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 3: like our clients and saying, well, why can't we aspire 92 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 3: to be really progressive and really embrace new ways of 93 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 3: working like the four day week for example. You know, 94 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: it doesn't just have to be happening within Inventum in 95 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,119 Speaker 3: our small team. I really have like just these bigger 96 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: expectations of the extent of change we can really achieve. 97 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: How about for you personally, given that at Inventium we 98 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: were pretty progressive I think in our workplace practices pre COVID. 99 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: So what have you been cognizant of in what you 100 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: expect from Inventium. 101 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: As a member of the team. You know, over the 102 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: last couple of years. 103 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 3: Oh, I actually feel like my expectations have changed to 104 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: be much more about what is good for the team. 105 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 3: Just naturally, I've moved into a position of more leadership 106 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 3: within Inventium, and I feel like I have a different 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 3: perspective in terms of, well, if I make this decision, 108 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: is it going to have a negative impact on the team, 109 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: and is this what's best for inventim Whereas when I 110 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 3: first started INVENTINGM, I was like, you know, an individual contributor, 111 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: and it was probably in my mind like, oh, it's 112 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 3: all about me, me, me, you know, which I'm not 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 3: ashamed to say. But like, I guess my expectation now 114 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 3: is that I see invent Him as this business that 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 3: I really want to contribute to growing, and I really 116 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 3: want to be a good leader to the team. 117 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 4: Would you say my expectations have dropped. I don't think so. 118 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: They've just changed because now I maybe more take on 119 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: more of that expectation myself of like, Okay, this decision, 120 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 3: it's not just about me anymore. It's about the team 121 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 3: and what's good for Inventium. 122 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love that shift. 123 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: Was there a moment where something shifted in your mind 124 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: in terms of how you saw your role at Inventium, like, 125 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: aside from being in a leadership position, was there something else? 126 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 2: Is there a conversation, Was there a moment or something 127 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: where years it felt that shift? 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 3: I think it was when we all went into that 129 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 3: first round of lockdown and overnight we lost fifty percent 130 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: of our work or something like that, like we could 131 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: no longer do in person workshops and that was really 132 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 3: how we were doing most of our work back then. 133 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 3: And so overnight the future of the team and Invent 134 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: Him was in jeopardy and we had to lose some 135 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 3: team members and I remember at that time speaking to 136 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: my friends and family and being like, oh, they lose 137 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 3: my job and maybe invent Him's not going to survive, 138 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: Like what am I going to do? And then you 139 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: have some reflection and think is that really going to happen? 140 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: And luckily it didn't happen invent Him, but I think 141 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: from then on I was like, well, I need to 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 3: make sure that doesn't happen because I want to be 143 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: part of invent Him growing and I don't want it. 144 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 4: To just disappear. 145 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: And that started this journey of me being like, well, 146 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: we're going to do something about it. 147 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 4: And it wasn't just me, it was everyone in the team. 148 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 3: We really kind of rallied together as a team and 149 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: we were like doing anything to survive, which so many 150 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: other teams and businesses did, and it was just such 151 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: a it's a good experience, you know, it brought us together. 152 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about my expectations and I feel like 153 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: I don't have as grand as insights as you to share. 154 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: But I was thinking just on a micro level, like 155 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: how have my expectations changed? And it's funny like yesterday 156 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: I had to be I say that as if I 157 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: had no choice. I did have a choice, but I 158 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: worked in a coworking space. So Inventium is a very 159 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: proud and enthusiastic member of the Commons. We love the 160 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: Commons for coworking, and a few of the Melbourne team 161 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: members decided that we'd all work together. 162 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:39,079 Speaker 2: Yesterday was a. 163 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: Monday, and today I'm working from home again, as I 164 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: normally do because my home is my office. And this 165 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: morning my partner said to me, what have you got 166 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: on today, and I said, I'm just so excited to 167 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: be back at home, working from home one hundred percent 168 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: of the time. You know, it is not everyone's cup 169 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: of tea, but I think for me, I feel very 170 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: very grateful in how just the expectations that people have 171 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: around where you can work, and particularly if you're at 172 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: an organization that does have a lot of flexibility like 173 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: Inventium does, I would find it so hard to go 174 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: back to an office, I think even three or four 175 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: days a week where it would feel like someone else 176 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: is controlling my schedule. And something we talk to our 177 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: clients about is really design your week based on your location. 178 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: So think about the tasks that you have to do. 179 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: And for example, deep work, deep focused tasks are typically 180 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: not suited to an open plan office environment, as most 181 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: officers are, but collaborative tasks are really well suited to 182 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: that environment obviously. And even though I know this and 183 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: we teach this to our clients, yesterday I came home 184 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the day in the coworking space 185 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 1: and I just felt like I got nothing done. But 186 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: then it's like I had to remind myself, well, no, 187 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: I did do things, and I had many full connections 188 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,239 Speaker 1: with some of my teammates. But just at a micro level, 189 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: I feel like the way I operate and my expectations 190 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: for what work lot looks like for me and what 191 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: works in with my life have just changed so much. 192 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: And I just love this way of work so much. 193 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: I feel like it's so suited to my role and 194 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: my personality and just the sort of stuff that we 195 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: do in invent Him. 196 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 3: I feel like I would just be so much more 197 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 3: stressed with life admin as well, just even getting up 198 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 3: in the morning and having to then factor in a 199 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 3: commute with everything else that you need to do in 200 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: the morning. I just don't know how people do it anymore. 201 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 3: And I think we were talking about this a few 202 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 3: weeks ago where it was like, wait, we used to 203 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: pack a lunch every day, Like how did we do that? 204 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: And it's true I did, and I'm like wow, Like 205 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 3: it would be so hard to go back to that, 206 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: and I've just decided, well, I'm never going to go 207 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: back to that, so it's not going to happen. 208 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 4: And that's that. 209 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: I wholeheartedly agree. 210 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: Now we're talking about employee expectations changing, and I think 211 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: one of the things that came out of the research 212 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: is just it's really important to actually overtly ask your teammates, 213 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: and particularly if you are a leader, what matters to people, 214 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: because you can't just assume this because if you do 215 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: assume it, you risk getting things really wrong, pissing people off, 216 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: and having them ultimately leave your team or your organization. 217 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: So we ran an exercise at a recent team off 218 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: site that we had in February that was designed to 219 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: uncover what matters to our team at Inventium and can 220 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: you talk about how we did that Shah. 221 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting because we had so many similar 222 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: responses in terms of what was most important to our team. 223 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: But basically we had everyone in the team right down 224 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 3: one to three non negotiables and then we had everyone 225 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: right down up to five. Makes me love you even 226 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 3: more so the things that just make Inventum even. 227 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 4: More enjoyable for you. 228 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 3: So if we really focus first and foremost on the 229 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: non negotiables, most people in the team said was the 230 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 3: ability to work from home and work remost and that 231 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 3: real embracing of flexibility. We also heard from people in 232 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: terms of the four day week, but also I remember 233 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 3: one person the team just saying, like knowing that in 234 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: Januaries I can work from my family's beach house because 235 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 3: that's when my kids are on holidays and we spend 236 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: a lot of time with my family. So it looks 237 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: different in terms of the specifics for everyone, but really, 238 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 3: that true embracing of flexibility was in the top non 239 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 3: negotiables I'd say for almost everyone in the team. 240 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: I think it was such an important exercise to go 241 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: through because as a leader, you're really a lot of 242 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: the time just guessing and assuming what matters to people 243 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: and what are those critical non negotiables. So I think 244 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: it's such a valuable exercise to go through as a team, 245 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: to not assume that you think you know, but actually 246 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: find out what's at the core of people's values and 247 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: choices and therefore, how can you create a better workplace environment. Now, 248 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: something that we do at in Ventium is we have 249 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: a team Communication Guide, and it's a tool that we 250 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: use with our clients to get really overt around how 251 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: do we communicate and which channels do we use for 252 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: what kind of communication? And I'd love you to explain, 253 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: because I know, Shah you facilitated a few sessions with 254 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: clients to help them flesh out a communication guide for 255 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: their team. What does that look like and what are 256 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: some of the things that teams need to get really 257 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: clear on when it comes to being great at communication, 258 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: which is such a big part of how we work. 259 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess the reason why we're talking about 260 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 3: communication is because so often the way that we communicate 261 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 3: as a team or even between manager and direct report, 262 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 3: so much of those kind of implicit rules just to 263 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 3: rise organically and we might not ever question why we 264 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 3: communicate that way firstly, but then if we decide for 265 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 3: some reason change the way that we're communicating, then that 266 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 3: can actually signal a lack of it can really break 267 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: trust in relationship. And so the reason why we're really 268 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 3: talking about this is if we can make communication more 269 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 3: explicit in terms of really agreeing on how we are 270 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 3: going to communicate and having an open conversation, if we 271 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 3: decide to change how we communicate, then we can better 272 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: protect the trust within teams, and trust is obviously important 273 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: in the context of hybrid and flexible work as well. 274 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 3: Some of the things that we do. Basically it's like 275 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 3: a co creation exercise where ultimately you need to converge 276 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 3: on decisions that are going to work best for the 277 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: team in terms of how we communicate. And so the 278 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 3: way that we typically do it Inventum is we get 279 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 3: people to really shift on specific questions themselves. For example, 280 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 3: what are our rituals around synchronous communication? How often do 281 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: we communicate synchronously which is live? Right now, we're communicating live, 282 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 3: but we might also use asynchronous communication in terms of 283 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 3: like emails and chat for example. So we get everyone 284 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: in the team to reflect on that question themselves in 285 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: terms of what would be ideal for them, and then 286 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: we get everyone to come together and share their opinion. 287 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: And you want to have just one agreement for the 288 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 3: team at. 289 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 4: A high level. 290 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 3: So we're doing that and right now to minting because 291 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: we did our communication guide a few years ago, and 292 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: then right now we're going through a process of changing 293 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: all our systems. We're using new technology, we're moving over 294 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 3: to new platforms, and so we're really trying to again 295 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: have another conversation around this. And I think that's important 296 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: because the way that you communicate evolves organically over time, 297 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 3: and so this needs to be a constant communication, a 298 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: constant conversation of how are we communicating? Is it still 299 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: working for us? Do we want to change how we're 300 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 3: communicating as a team as. 301 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: Well, I want to talk about another strategy that we 302 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: can use for understanding expectations, So really delving in deep 303 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: to this big theme where expectations are changing and leaders 304 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: are not necessarily across those changing expectations, which greatly increases 305 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: the risk of people leaving. Now, what typically happens at 306 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: an organization. 307 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: Is that you join work and then you. 308 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: Resign at some point in time, and I imagine most 309 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: people listening have probably had, maybe they've conducted, maybe they've 310 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: been a part of an exit interview, which essentially happens 311 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: when you leave an organization and someone interviews you to ask. 312 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: Why did you leave? 313 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: Now, we both recently had the pleasure of seeing Adam 314 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: Grant speak when he was touring Australia and he is 315 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: not a fan of exit interviews and we've taken his 316 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: advice to heart because he believes in something else, Shaq, 317 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: can you share what we've started doing in Inventium. 318 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 3: Yes, he believes in entry and stay interviews. So this 319 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 3: is really about establishing expectations with each employee in your 320 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: team and continuing that interview process pass recruitment into an 321 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 3: employee's first one to three months to do the entry 322 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 3: interview to understand why did they join your organization, what 323 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: do they want to contribute to the team, what do 324 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: they want to get out of this for their career, 325 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: and also they've learned in those first three months as well, 326 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 3: and then also the stay interviews, which is longer in 327 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 3: the employee journey and understanding why people are staying with 328 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 3: your organization, and that's really important. So that you can 329 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 3: ultimately help them to stay. 330 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: We will be back soon talking about the practicalities of 331 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: conducting an entry interview, from the questions that we ask 332 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: through to the sorts of things you might expect to uncover. 333 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 334 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: you work and live, I write a weekly newsletter where 335 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: I share practical and simple to apply tips to improve 336 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: your life. You can sign up for that at Amantha 337 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: dot substack dot com. That's Amantha dot substack dot com. 338 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: So can you share what are the kind of things 339 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: that come up in an entry interview or some of 340 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: the questions that you asked? 341 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 3: So he did an entry interview with one of our 342 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 3: newest team members. What I first asked him was just 343 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 3: that very simple question of what made you want to 344 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 3: join Invent Him and what do you want to get 345 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 3: out of your time here? 346 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 4: And what I. 347 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: Learned was really around some of the things that were 348 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 3: motivating him in making this decision to join Invent Him. 349 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 3: So he'd worked previously in a SaaS environment. He's a 350 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 3: marketing professional, and he was really excited about the opportunity 351 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 3: to move to an adjacent but different industry and to 352 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 3: get lots of new learnings and to find new challenges. 353 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 3: The other thing that I learned from what he really 354 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 3: wanted to get out of invent him was really seeing 355 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 3: all of the things that we do internally that we 356 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 3: share with our clients and seeing what it looks like 357 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 3: to be part of that on the internal side, and 358 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: for him as a marketing professional, to be able to 359 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 3: convert that into what we share with the external world 360 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 3: as well. What I also asked him was what were 361 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 3: some of his favorite projects he's worked on in his career, 362 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 3: And I heard what he loved was it was this 363 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 3: big project where the team all rallied together around this 364 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 3: kind of big objective and we're working together on that. 365 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 3: So this real sense of team cohesion where the team 366 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 3: works together to achieve something. He really loved an opportunity 367 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 3: to work on that, and so that gave me really 368 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 3: good insight into understanding he loves to collaborate, He wants 369 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: to be part of big projects that are like long term, 370 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: and he wants to really see the connection with what 371 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: he's doing with the organizational purpose. What I also asked 372 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: him was his best boss and his worst boss. So 373 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 3: I heard some stories from his background in terms of 374 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 3: his worst boss, and he just spoke about someone who 375 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: was really disrespectful abused their power, and I played this 376 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 3: back to him. I said, from what you said, I've 377 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 3: learnt that it sounds like you really value fairness and 378 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 3: people treating each other with respect. And then he also 379 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: shared his best boss as well, and his most favorite 380 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 3: boss was not a tech nicole marketing expert, but was 381 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 3: someone that really took a personalized approach to leading in 382 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 3: the team. And for me, as someone who is leading 383 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 3: him and also not being a marketing professional, I was like, good, 384 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 3: I will focus on that. I will focus on making 385 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: sure I understand you are as a unique individual and 386 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: leading with that in mind. 387 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: So one of the things that we plan to do 388 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: Shah and particularly after the new strategy is announced, which 389 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: we're working on at the moment at invent Him, are 390 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: stay interviews, and this is where we're going to have 391 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: one on ones with everyone in the team, and in 392 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: this day interview, we're going to be asking them a 393 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: few different questions like what do you enjoy most about 394 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: your role, what are the most challenging aspects of your job, 395 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: and importantly, what motivates you to continue to stay with 396 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: Inventium and I think that will be really important to 397 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: understand after the strategy is announced. So I am personally 398 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: very excited about conducting some stay interviews. 399 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: Man, I'm just thinking about if someone was listening to this, 400 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 3: they might be thinking, how do I make sure that 401 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 3: I get honest responses to those questions? And people don't 402 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 3: just treat it as an exercise to tell their boss, Oh, 403 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 3: you're great and I love you and this is great. 404 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 3: What would you do if you're going to lead these 405 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 3: conversations with the team, what's specifically going to do to 406 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 3: encourage honest responses. 407 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: It's an interesting question because I think so much of 408 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: this depends on the level of trust that there is 409 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: within an organization. I think within Inventium there's a high 410 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: level of trust, and by and large, I suspect that 411 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: people will feel pretty comfortable sharing. But I think perhaps 412 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: in organizations where there's a lack of trust, then a 413 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: potentially different approach is having peers conduct the stay interviews 414 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: and perhaps having those teams of people that are at 415 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: a similar level in the hierarchy, where there's no negative implications, 416 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: share something that is perhaps something that your boss is 417 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: not going to want to hear that could be a 418 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: different strategy where they collate and make sure the responses 419 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: are anonymous, so you're still getting the data, which is 420 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: really useful, but you're also getting that honesty. Now, something 421 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: else that we do at Inventium, and again this is 422 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: another way of uncovering expectations in a pretty explicit way, 423 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: and we've done this for years now is one of 424 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: those two things called deal or No Deal. So, Shah, 425 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: do you want to explain what this deal or no 426 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,239 Speaker 1: Deal thing is? 427 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 4: Deal or No Deal is something we've been doing. 428 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 3: For a few years where we really sought inspiration from 429 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 3: an organization called Zappos, which you might not know in Australia, 430 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 3: but they're a very large. 431 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 4: Online shoe retailer. 432 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 3: Zappos pays people to leave their organization and we try 433 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: to do the same thing in a different way. So 434 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 3: how Deal or No Deal works is when we have 435 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 3: a new starter join the team, essentially recognize that there's 436 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,160 Speaker 3: a lot of energy and time and effort that goes 437 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 3: into developing that new person, getting them across all the systems, 438 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 3: training them, fostering them in the culture and all that 439 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: kind of stuff, and so we want to make sure 440 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 3: that we don't just continue to invest in someone who 441 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: might not be as committed once they've realized what it's 442 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 3: really like to work at inventing, because obviously we see 443 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 3: the recruitment process as a two way street in terms 444 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: of it's about the employer choosing the best talent, but 445 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 3: also the talent choosing an employer that suits them. And 446 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 3: you might fall in love through the recruitment process, but 447 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 3: maybe in your first few weeks you realize that it's 448 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 3: not really for you. And normally within your first six 449 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 3: months you have a notice period of only a week, 450 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 3: so if you were to leave within six months, you 451 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: get paid one week's pay. Once you pass that six months, 452 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,919 Speaker 3: you then get a month's notice period and a month's 453 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 3: pay if you choose to leave. So with deal and 454 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 3: no deal, we say to people once they reach the 455 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 3: three month month, we say, we would really love you 456 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 3: to stay, but we know that sometimes your expectations from 457 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 3: the recruitment process might not match what you're getting once 458 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 3: you join. So we'd love for you to reflect on 459 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 3: whether you are committed to Inventum and you want to 460 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 3: stay and Inventum. If not, that's all good with us. 461 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: We'll be sorry to see you go. But we will 462 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 3: pay you a month's pay to leave, as opposed to 463 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 3: just the one week's pay. So what I'd love about 464 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 3: this is it takes the power that is often in 465 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 3: the hands of the employer and give some of that 466 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: power to the employee to actually make a decision themselves 467 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 3: in terms of do I really want to stay here? 468 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 3: And just that simple process of making that decision of yes, 469 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 3: I do want to stay is so powerful for building 470 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 3: your team's commitment and their engagement as well. So even 471 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 3: just asking this question, even if you already know what 472 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 3: the answer is going to be in terms of no, 473 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 3: I'm not taking the deal and I do want to stay, 474 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 3: it sends a really important signal your team and can 475 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 3: really foster more of that commitment. 476 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: Now during this discussion, I feel like we've been assuming 477 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: that employees are clear on their expectations and what they 478 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: want and what matters to them. But I think oftentimes 479 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: I certainly know like when I speak to people about this, 480 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: they'll say, well, how do I get clear on my 481 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: values and what I want and what matters to me? 482 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 1: And I know, Shah, You've had. 483 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 2: A few frameworks to do this. 484 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: I know one that you like is called the Wheel 485 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: of Life as a way of helping us get clear 486 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: on what matters to us. 487 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: Can you take us through that framework? 488 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 3: So the Wheel of Life gets you to basically categorize 489 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: the things that are important to you in your life 490 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: and to rate how you are currently performing on that 491 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 3: element of your life. So, for example, you might decide 492 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 3: that it's important not only that you have fulfilling career, 493 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 3: but you might also be a parent. You might also 494 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 3: see yourself as a sports player, you might be a 495 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: community leader. So thinking about all of these different domains 496 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 3: of your life that you want to dedicate energy too, 497 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 3: and doing a bit of a self assessment in terms of, 498 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 3: well how am I going? So just thinking, you know, 499 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 3: over the last few weeks, how much energy and time 500 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: have I actually committed to that. 501 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 4: So you might reflect and say, oh, well, I caught 502 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 4: up with my sister. 503 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: Last weekend and I've been really investing in that relationship, 504 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 3: so I'm doing really well in that component of my life. 505 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 3: But you might have kind of reflected and said, oh, well, 506 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 3: I normally like playing sport, but I have been so 507 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: busy with work that I haven't been going to training 508 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 3: every week and that's really dropped off. And that might 509 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 3: signal to you that there's something that you want to 510 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 3: change about that in your life. So what I love 511 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 3: about the Wheel of Life is it kind of looks 512 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 3: at you holistically as a person. It automatically assumes that 513 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 3: you are not just here for work. There are other 514 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 3: elements of your life that are really important to you, 515 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 3: and it helps you it down and see where there 516 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 3: are the gaps. And this could help you better understand 517 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 3: what's important to you and use that to have a 518 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 3: conversation with your team or your manager. You can point 519 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 3: to that wheel of life, which I find really useful 520 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 3: when you're talking about things that might feel a bit challenging, 521 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 3: is you can kind of point to that third object 522 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 3: and say, you know, it's not you, it's not me, 523 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 3: it's just this wheel of life that I want to 524 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: talk about. 525 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: That's cool. 526 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: It reminds me of something that came up in a 527 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: recent interview I did with Nathan Barry, who's the founder 528 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: and CEO of convert Kit, a very successful technology company, 529 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,639 Speaker 1: and something that he does every year is you know 530 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: how most companies, certainly if you publicly listed, you'd do 531 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: an annual report, which is the highlights of many aspects 532 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: of your company. 533 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: Over the year. 534 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: Nathan does what he calls an annual life review, where 535 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: he sits down at the end of the year and 536 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: he reviews the last twelve months and then he writes 537 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: about it. And really his audience is himself and his kids, 538 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: his family, So there's a record all most of the year, 539 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: but he publishes it online to have a look through. 540 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: And I found it the most interesting exercise. He's got 541 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: a philosophy. He tries to work in the public space 542 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: so that people can learn through his processes. 543 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 2: But I thought, what. 544 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: An interesting thing to do to actually doing almost an 545 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: annual report for your life. 546 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: I really liked that. 547 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: Now, the final thing that I want to cover when 548 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: it comes to expectations is the importance of transparency, and 549 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: the more transparent you can be, particularly if you're in 550 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: a leadership role, the better the outcomes you're going to get. 551 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: And at Invent Him a leadership team have been working 552 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: through our strategy for the next three years and more 553 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: specifically FY twenty five and we had a two day 554 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: off site where we worked through a lot of stuff 555 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: and someone on the team said, oh, can you give 556 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: us like a little bit of an update of where 557 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: it's at before we do the big reveal of the 558 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: strategy in June. And I think it was Ushah that 559 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: just put a little comment in our leadership group chat 560 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: that says, is there any reason why we wouldn't just 561 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: share the working document? And I thought, yeah, awesome. And 562 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: so what we've done now is we've got this working document. 563 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: It's quite big and there's lots of rough bits that 564 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: have not been refined, but essentially now everyone in the 565 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: team can have a look at this working document. We 566 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: use Microsoft Loop as our collaborative software. It's kind of 567 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: like Google Docs, and anyone can hop in, they can 568 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: ask questions, they can comment, and they can basically see 569 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: the strategy being formed. And I love that you suggested 570 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: that because I think that's just so cool instead of doing, 571 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, the big reveal in a few weeks time. 572 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: I think I remember, even just when we were talking 573 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 3: about how we communicate as a team, reading around how 574 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: other organizations communicate and looking at how at Lassian has 575 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: rules around how they communicate, and just this whole idea 576 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 3: of having separate little chat rooms and groups. It just 577 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 3: is another way of creating silos in an organization, and 578 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: it just made me think we are sometimes without even 579 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 3: intending to, we're creating silos and we're saying, oh, well, 580 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 3: that's not relevant right now for that person, so they don't. 581 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 4: Need to read it. 582 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 3: But actually, if we just say, well, if you want 583 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 3: to read it, you can, you know, you don't have to. 584 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 3: It's not adding to your workload. I think why not 585 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 3: take down those silos? And I think transparency is another 586 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 3: one of those expectations that more and more employees are expecting, 587 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: and so just thinking about, well, how else can we 588 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 3: get more transparency? And if you're not a leader managing 589 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 3: up and thinking how do I make sure I'm super 590 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: transparent around my projects with my stakeholders for example. 591 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: Well, with them, we've covered so many different and I 592 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: hope practical strategies that people can use in order to 593 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: help bridge the divide between you know, how people's expectations 594 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,840 Speaker 1: are changing and making sure that those expectations get met 595 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: in the workplace so that organizations and leaders do get 596 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: to hold on to their best talent and cred a 597 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 1: really great place to work. And if you're interested in 598 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: looking at any of the other trends in the Future 599 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: of Work report, we will put a link to that 600 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, I 601 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: would love to ask a favor. Click follow on the 602 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: podcast app that you're listening to this on, and if 603 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: you're feeling really generous, leave a review for the show. 604 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: Following this podcast and leaving reviews helps How I Work 605 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: find new listeners, and your support is one of the 606 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: things that makes this podcast possible. Thank you for sharing 607 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: part of your day with me by listening to How 608 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: I Work. If you're keen for more tips on how 609 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: to work better, connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. 610 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: I'm very easy to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. 611 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: How I Work was recorded on the traditional land of 612 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: the Warrangery people, part of the Cool and Nation. 613 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 2: I am so. 614 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: Grateful for being able to work and live on this 615 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: beautiful land, and I want to pay my respects to 616 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: elder's past, present and emerging. How I Work is produced 617 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: by me Amantha Imber. The episode producer was Rowena Murray, 618 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Imba, who does the audio 619 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: mix for every episode and makes everything sound better than 620 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: it would have otherwise.