1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 2: Now, well, it's not an adult to adult conversation, and 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: I would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: to webblue in the face and the kids really do 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm astounded 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that 8 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 2: she knows compared to us. 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 3: She knows everything. 10 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: and dad. 12 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: Gooday, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy 13 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: Families dot com. Do you and that to six kids? 14 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 2: Author of seven books, the seventh book coming out real soon. 15 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 3: I can't wait to tell you all about it. 16 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 2: I mean with Kylie, my wife and mum to those 17 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 2: six kids as well, and Kylie. Today a conversation that 18 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 2: we're going to have a courtesy of Craig Bruce, our 19 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 2: executive producer. He said, you guys need to talk about 20 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: the fights that you have to have with your kids, 21 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: ten fights that parents have got to have with their kids, 22 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 2: because it's worth fighting about this stuff. 23 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 3: So that's what we're going to do. 24 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 4: I don't really know where to go with this one 25 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: because I am so over fighting with our kids. 26 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 3: I would love what do you mean, what do you 27 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 3: mean missus happy families? We don't fight with our children. 28 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 4: I would love to think that we could come up 29 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: with something better than a fight. 30 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: I'm the author of all these books about how to 31 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: not fight with your kids, but how to have a 32 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: happy family. 33 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: What do you mean, I don't know what you're talking about. 34 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: Hang on a sec I just need to go and 35 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: put my head back in the sand while you do 36 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: this podcast on your own. 37 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 4: Well, I was about to say, anyone who has a 38 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 4: child a they don't even need to have six. Yeah, 39 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 4: we'd know that this is a conversation that you're going 40 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,279 Speaker 4: to have over and over again. 41 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: The reality is, if you're in relationship with someone, anyone, 42 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: if you're in relationship with somebody, you are going to 43 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 2: have disputes. There's going to be conflict, There's going to 44 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 2: be disagreement. There are all different ways that we can 45 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 2: deal with those disagreements in those conflicts, but there will 46 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: be preferences that one person holds that are not considered 47 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: with the preferences that the other person holds. And if 48 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: that person the other person in the relationship that's not. 49 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 4: You happens to be twelve. 50 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: I was going to say twelve months. But it doesn't 51 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: really matter. They're going to have a different opinion, they're 52 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 2: going to see the world differently, different perspective, different preferences, 53 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 2: and so on, and the conflict is bound to an issue. 54 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: And when they're younger, they're also fairly clumsy in the 55 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 2: way that they express their preferences and the way they 56 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: try to. 57 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 4: I don't think that that is just for the young. 58 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: No, of course not. 59 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: I mean your mum, did I just say that? Oh 60 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: my goodness, I can't believe I just said that. We 61 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: need to bleep that out. I'm just kidding. 62 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: Let's move on. 63 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: So let's talk about these ten fights that you absolutely 64 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: have to have. We've made lists, folks, We've made a list, 65 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: but we're only going to spend about one second on 66 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 2: each of them because we feel like there's a more 67 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: important conversation to be had than what the actual content 68 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: or topics of the fights are. Let's start and we'll 69 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: go through them in age order. Okay, so from the 70 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 2: youngest age, when do the fights start and what are 71 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: they about? 72 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 3: Through to middle childhood, and then through to adulthood. 73 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 4: As soon as that baby lands in your arms, there's 74 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 4: fights about sleeping and eating. 75 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: And yeah, and it gets words as they get older, right, 76 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 2: I mean, the reality is you're probably not going to 77 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: fight with them when they're little. You just, in a 78 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: perfect world, you will give them whatever they want. They 79 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 2: scream and you bend over backwards to make sure that 80 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: they're satisfied. 81 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: I'm screaming that their needs are met. 82 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: That scream is a really effective way of making sure 83 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 2: that people pay attention and give me what I want. 84 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: But as they get older, the sleep conversation and the 85 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: food conversation, I mean, if we're unlucky, it can go 86 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: for years. 87 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 4: Well, as they get older than we start talking about friends, 88 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 4: right and parties and sleepovers. 89 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 3: Yeah oh yeah, yeah. 90 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 4: These become really big challenging issues as our kids start 91 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 4: to gain a little bit of independence and they just 92 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 4: get bigger. 93 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: You didn't mention, you didn't mention the fights in early 94 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 2: childhood about it's time to leave the park, or you've 95 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: got to wear your seat belt, or. 96 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 4: No, I'm not going to buy you something every time 97 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 4: I go. 98 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: To the shop. 99 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, or I know that everyone's probably anticipating 100 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: that we're going to say that the screen time fights 101 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: start when they're teenagers, but hello, have you ever taken 102 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: a screen off a two year old? 103 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: I mean that starts at the very beginning. 104 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: I've lost count. There's a lot of fights that we 105 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: could potentially have with our kids, and as parents, by 106 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 2: the way, let's let's finish the list by the time 107 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: the kids are in their teen years. 108 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 3: We've got things like. 109 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 4: Social media, alcohol and drugs, intimacy, sex and pornography, resect, resect, 110 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 4: repectct respect, consideration of others. And I've actually put dress 111 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 4: on there. I think that there's, you know, some really 112 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 4: important conversations we need to have with our kids around 113 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: self respect and you know. 114 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: I guess how we display ourselves, yeah, and how the. 115 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 4: World sees us as a result. I'm not suggesting for 116 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 4: a second that we kind of dress for other people. 117 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: You're on the kind of ground here where some people 118 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: could get quite upset. 119 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 3: But let's be honest. 120 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: When we've got a thirteen or a fourteen year old 121 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 2: walking around sending specific messages to the people around him 122 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 2: or her through the way that they're dressing, it can 123 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: have an impact on any number of things. So I 124 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 2: think that it's definitely worth a conversation, and there are 125 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 2: going to be some families who will think not at all, 126 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: and other families who are right there beside you on 127 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: that one. 128 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 4: So I guess the conversation really is not so much 129 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 4: about how do we have these fights with our kids, 130 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 4: because any parent would suggest that the last thing they 131 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 4: want to do is have another fight. 132 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: But every single one of these things is ah'll to 133 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: die on from a parent point of view, and definitely 134 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 2: from a child point of view. And ultimately this comes 135 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: down to this conversation about control. As a parent. Some 136 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: parents would say, let's go to the clothing issue. I 137 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: will not let you leave the house looking like that, 138 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 2: or the alcohol issue. You're not going to that party 139 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: if there's going to be alcohol there, full stop, end 140 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: of story. You're twelve, or you're sixteen, or you're whatever. 141 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 2: And some parents will say, you're not leaving the table 142 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: until you've eaten all four of those peas four of them, 143 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: it's only four p's, and you need to have something green, 144 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 2: and you need to have And so as parents, we 145 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: see these things as critically important and things that have 146 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: to be controlled. 147 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 4: Why we see ourselves as being kind of in charge 148 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 4: of our kids' safety and they're well being. 149 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're trying to protect them. It was more 150 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: of a rhetorical question, but I'm glad you answered it. Yeah, 151 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: it's about saying I want you to grow up healthy 152 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: and strong and. 153 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: Safe, and that's happy, and yeah, what happy? 154 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 4: And yet we spend so much time fighting. 155 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: But the difficulty is, even though each of these things matters, 156 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: and matters a great deal and is worth engaging in 157 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: some level of conflict over, it's how we have the conflict. 158 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 2: And I don't know that anything is really worth well, 159 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: A couple of things are. It's definitely worth highlighting. It 160 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 2: is worth having a fight if your child's safety is 161 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 2: at risk. There are sometimes where we as a parent 162 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: simply need to say no, and I will stand myrond 163 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 2: on this one. But there are very few, not nearly 164 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 2: as many of those things as we often make. 165 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 3: Out that there could be very very few. 166 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: In fact, when I think about the last twenty three 167 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: twenty four years of child wearing that you and I 168 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: have been through, I can really only think of a 169 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 2: couple of times in my life where I have stood 170 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: there and said I'm your father, and I forbid it. 171 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: It will not happen. I'm getting very serious about this. 172 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: I've got my cranky face on. No, it just doesn't 173 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: happen because we can usually work it out without having 174 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 2: to have a full blown battle with our kids. So 175 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 2: after the break, let's talk about how we avoid the 176 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: conflict but still get to work through these tough things 177 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 2: to keep our kids safe and help them to make 178 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: healthy decisions for their lives. Neurodiverse children are beautiful, but 179 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: they also bring unique challenges for parents and educators. The 180 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: world does not always accommodate them easily or well. Communication, affection, behavior, learning, 181 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: and almost every other aspect of life can be challenging 182 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: for the child and their families. The webinar A Parent's 183 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: Guide to Autism by leading autism expert Michelle Garnett can 184 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 2: help parents and educators strengthen the bond with their autistic 185 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: children for better outcomes for children and families. A Parent's 186 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: Guide to Autism is available at Happy Families dot com 187 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: dot au. 188 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for a time 189 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, And I'm sure 190 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 4: that everyone is wanting to hear how we have a 191 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 4: conversation that doesn't lead to conflict with their kids. 192 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So let's just put this out there. Typically, 193 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: if your child wants to do something, whether they're two 194 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: or twenty two, or let's say two or eighteen, because 195 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 2: once they're past eighteen, you've got limited input really in 196 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: what's going on. But as we're raising these kids, when 197 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: they want something that we're not willing to give them, 198 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 2: they will usually have a dead set, fared income, full 199 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: blown dummy spit and completely lose the plot before we 200 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 2: get to have a conversation with them. We had this 201 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 2: happened in the last few weeks in our home. We were 202 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: dealing with the screen issue all over again. We said 203 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: to one of the kids, we really need to sit 204 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: down and have a conversation. We don't want to have 205 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: a big battle of we don't have a big war. 206 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: You're big enough to have this conversation, so let's just 207 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: chat it through. And instead of chatting it through, she 208 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 2: lost the plot. She slammed the door. She did, I'm 209 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 2: not talking any of the other boys parents in the world. 210 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: This is so unfair and just totally blew up. But 211 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: later on that night we were able to sit down 212 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: and while she was still not the most excited participant 213 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: in the conversation. We got to have the conversation and 214 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: there was no conflict. As we walked through that conversation, 215 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 2: she'd calm down, she knew that the conversation needed to 216 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: be had, and we were able to work things through 217 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: reasonably well. And well, we haven't had perfect compliance subsequent 218 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 2: to the conversation, we've been able to see vast improvements. 219 00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 4: What was interesting in that specific context was just the 220 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 4: realization that, in spite of all of the conversations we've had, 221 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 4: she was still quite oblivious to what our concerns were. 222 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 2: And that's such an important thing for us to highlight. 223 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: If you're a parent and you think because I've had 224 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: the conversation it's done, think again. It doesn't go in 225 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: like honestly, You've got to have the conversation multiple times. 226 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 2: There's just no such thing as a one off. It's 227 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 2: an ongoing conversation. And I think that's why we as 228 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: parents get so frustrated because it is so exhausting. 229 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 3: It's such a. 230 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 2: I don't even know what the word is that I'm 231 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 2: looking for. It's just so tiring all the time. So 232 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: I reckon there's a couple of things that we can 233 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: do to frame this well. But first is you know 234 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: my ladder of life metaphor. I use it all the time, yep, 235 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 2: And the kids roll their eyes when they hear it. 236 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: But it's a good metaphor. 237 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,559 Speaker 4: Only because you're on top. 238 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: Well, they will have the chance to do that in 239 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 2: their own lives at some point. But here's the metaphor. 240 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: I like to frame these conversations with the kids by saying, 241 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: life is like climbing a ladder, and I've climbed, and 242 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: then I say how many rungs of the ladder I've climbed? 243 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:07,719 Speaker 4: Two? 244 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 2: Come on, I've climbed nearly fifty rungs. I like forty six, 245 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: forty seven rungs. 246 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 3: Up this ladder of life. 247 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: And the view from forty seven rungs up, I can 248 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: see a long way into the distance. I can see 249 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that's coming. And it's my job, 250 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: as the person higher up the ladder, to warn the 251 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: people lower down the ladder that there's stuff coming. Now 252 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 2: here's the difference. When you're low on the ladder, like 253 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 2: you're twelve, or you're fifteen, or you're. 254 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 3: Three or four, you can't see very far at all. 255 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 3: But but you think you can, Yeah, because you can 256 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 3: see further now than you've ever been able to see. 257 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 4: You above the trees, right, you're above the tree line 258 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 4: now and you can actually see and it looks like 259 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: you can see the. 260 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: World right right. 261 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,199 Speaker 2: The other thing about being further down the ladder, though, 262 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: and I explained this to the kids, is you get 263 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: to see all the detail. I can't see the detail 264 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: from up here. I'm pretty high up. I can see 265 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: stuff that's coming, but I'm not in the thick of it. 266 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: I'm not down in in the mud and the leaves 267 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 2: and in the trees and in the ground. I can't 268 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: see and hear what the kids at score are actually saying. 269 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: I'm not looking at the chats that you're involved in. 270 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 2: If we're talking about screens of social media, for example, 271 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: I don't know exactly what's going on there. I just 272 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 2: know because I'm so high up, I can see the 273 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: trouble that's coming. And therefore, while you know more detail, 274 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: I have more. 275 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: Of this big picture of you. 276 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: And as your parents, my job to warn you about 277 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: what's coming and work out with you how we can 278 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: keep you safe, because you're going to be stuck in 279 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 2: the actual warfare. 280 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 3: That happens lower down the ladder. 281 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: Now that metaphor is a framing for a conversation, is 282 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 2: actually a pretty powerful way to help kids to become 283 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: open to an alternative perspective, perspective that they're not real 284 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: flash on hearing otherwise. 285 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 286 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 4: So what happens though, if you use that metaphor and 287 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 4: it doesn't work any magic. Your kid looks at you 288 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 4: like you have no clue what you're talking about. They're 289 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: not willing to meet you anywhere close to the middle 290 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 4: to be able to have what you would consider an 291 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 4: adult to adult conversation. 292 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 2: Well, it's not an adult to adult conversation. And I 293 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 2: would say welcome to parenthood, because we do talk to 294 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: web blue in the face, and the kids really do 295 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 2: think that they know better. Well, I mean, I'm aststoundard 296 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: at how much our eight year old really thinks that 297 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 2: she knows compared to us. She knows everything, absolutely, But 298 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: it's not about having an adult to adult conversation. This 299 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: is a parent to child conversation. And I think the 300 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: second thing that I would encourage with the framing, which 301 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: kind of answers this question, is to let your child 302 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: know this is a really big challenge for us. Whether 303 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 2: it's going to bed on time, or whether it's eating 304 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: good food, or whether it's choosing good friends or pick 305 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 2: your issue. All the way through to the screens and 306 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: the alcohol and the heavy stuff of the adolescent years, 307 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 2: the relationship will always come first. 308 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: I love you no matter what you choose. 309 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:55,479 Speaker 2: I love you no matter whether you follow my requests 310 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: and my preferences or not. But what's going to make 311 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 2: make you happier and healthier, what's going to keep you safer, 312 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: is for us to work together on this and find 313 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: a solution that we can both feel good about. And 314 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: just by making the relationship primary, it actually draws kids 315 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: to us. It helps them to recognize that we're there. 316 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 3: Now. 317 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 2: This is not well, I'm going to be really soft 318 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,719 Speaker 2: on you and let you do whatever you want. It's 319 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: not that it's letting them know I value the relationship. 320 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: It's absolutely critical. There's a third thing that I want 321 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: to highlight, and that is that it's not worth going 322 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: to war over preferences. There are some principles, some values 323 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: that it actually is worth going to war on. It 324 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: really is worth having the battle, and that might be 325 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: things to do with the genuine safety and health and 326 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 2: protection of your child. If they've got preferences about music 327 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 2: and you don't like the music, or if they've got 328 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: preferences around what foods they do and don't like. I mean, 329 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: we've all got preferences, and it's just that we're the 330 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: grown ups, and so we get to we just get 331 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: to think that our preferences is a normal and everybody's 332 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: toe the line with our preferences. 333 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: But that's not how it is at all. So preferences 334 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 3: versus principles, preferences go easy principles. 335 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: That's the stuff where you say, actually, as a matter 336 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 2: of principle, this is just a big fat no. 337 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: And again you won't have to do it very often. 338 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 4: So I guess we've got a couple of take home 339 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 4: messages from today's conversation. There are going to be a 340 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 4: jillion conversations that are worth having right that, hopefully, if 341 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 4: we take the right approach, that they don't actually need 342 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 4: to become fights. There might be some contention as you 343 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 4: start to work things through, but I guess that number 344 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 4: one take home would be that the relationship comes first, 345 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 4: no matter what, and letting your child know that you 346 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 4: love them no matter what choices they make. But these 347 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 4: things are important and we want to try and work 348 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 4: with them, not against them. 349 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: And I want to add to that, I always frame 350 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: with our kids that this is about being healthy and 351 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: about being safe, and about being wise. I don't ever 352 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: frame it in terms of what's right and wrong or 353 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: what's good and bad, because they really resist our morality. 354 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: And you can argue about what's good and bad based 355 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: on any number of other factors and judgments. 356 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 4: I don't have your life experience, so you saying that 357 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 4: social media is bad based on your knowledge and experience 358 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 4: doesn't equate to what they're seeing. 359 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, their experiences. 360 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 2: No, it's not bad, and everyone's on it and this 361 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: is my life. Whereas if we talk about safety and 362 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: being healthy and making wise choices, there's no moral contaminant 363 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: in there, and it's much harder to argue against that. 364 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 2: It's just better footing. That doesn't mean that as a 365 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: parent you don't believe that there's good and bad, right 366 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: and wrong. It just means that the conversations go smoother 367 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: when we remove the moral element and focus instead on 368 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: what's healthy, what's safe, and what's wise. 369 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 4: And I think lastly, the latter metaphor that you use 370 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 4: is really powerful to show perspective. And you know, if 371 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 4: you wanted to take it to the extreme, go on, 372 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 4: I'm a ladder together. Yeah, ask them what they see 373 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 4: from their rung three runs up and your rung ten 374 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 4: runs up? What can they see and what's the difference? 375 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you don't even need a ladder. 376 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: You can stand in the upstairs window versus the downstairs 377 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: window and just look at the different perspective, or put 378 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: someone on the roof, like massive, massive. 379 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 3: Difference is there. I just want to highlight as well though. 380 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 2: Expect contention, expect hardship, Expect some sort of a challenge 381 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 2: because the kids do get annoyed. They want their perspectives 382 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: to be heard and they want their own way. So 383 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 2: hopefully this has been a helpful conversation about how you 384 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 2: can navigate those challenges. The Happy Families podcast is produced 385 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: by Justin Ruland for Bridge Media, with Craig Bruce as 386 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 2: our executive producer. If you'd like more info about making 387 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 2: your family happy, please join us at Happy Families dot 388 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 2: com dot au.