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Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families Podcast. Daycare, family, daycare, early

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Speaker 1: learning centers, children who are emotional and struggling. There's so

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Speaker 1: much to navigate when you're trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to keep the family afloat, get the kids looked after,

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Speaker 1: manage life, and put your children in the place where

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Speaker 1: they're going to have the best opportunities, the best experiences,

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Speaker 1: the best outcomes. Today on the Happy Families Podcast, we

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Speaker 1: answer one of your tricky questions. You can send your

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Speaker 1: questions to us via Happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: This one is about the childcare challenges that families face.

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Speaker 1: Will answer that next. Stay with us, Good day, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Happy Families Podcast. Real parenting solutions every single day.

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Speaker 1: On Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and

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Speaker 1: Kylie Coulson. Kylie, my mouth's not working today. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to say it. My lips aren't opening properly.

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Speaker 1: I don't I feel like I can't enunciate and particulate.

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Speaker 1: You might need to run this one for us before

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Speaker 1: we get into it. If you have a tricky question.

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Speaker 1: Every Tuesday, we answer your tricky questions. All you have

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Speaker 1: to do is go to happy families dot com dot A.

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Speaker 1: You press the record button and start talking. We'll answer

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Speaker 1: questions about anything. Today it's a question about childcare. I'll

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Speaker 1: also take your voice notes. You can email the to

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Speaker 1: podcasts at happyfamilies dot com dot AU. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm about to run out of puff, Kylie, so let

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Speaker 1: me hit this button and let's have a listen to

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Speaker 1: the question from Claire.

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Speaker 2: Hi justin, Kylie. My name is Claire. I am hoping

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Speaker 2: for your thoughts on elsc's so early learning centers versus childcares.

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Speaker 2: My little one is two and a half. She's never

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Speaker 2: been to childcare. We intended to send her, but when

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Speaker 2: we did the local tours when she was about twelve

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Speaker 2: months old, these weren't really great centers. I know there

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Speaker 2: are some really awesome ones out there, but the local

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Speaker 2: ones close to us we weren't. Really we didn't feel

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Speaker 2: very confident in. However, we've since enrolled her in a

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Speaker 2: local school's eels where she'd attend just after she turns

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Speaker 2: three years old, for three days a week. It's Reggio

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Speaker 2: Amelia Base. I don't know if I'm saying that right.

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Speaker 2: It looks good, but I wanted your thoughts on whether

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Speaker 2: eocs are appropriate at the age of three versus sort

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Speaker 2: of childcare. The second sort of component to this is

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Speaker 2: that I'll describe my little one as very deeply feeling.

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Speaker 2: She's got beautiful, big emotions, but that can mean that

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Speaker 2: things can escalate quite quickly. And something that can happen

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Speaker 2: if she gets distressed and I'm not able to help

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Speaker 2: her find a place of calm as I say, quickly enough,

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Speaker 2: is that she can vomit. So, for example, I left

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Speaker 2: her with one of my parents the other day she

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Speaker 2: missed me. There was just for an hour, but she

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Speaker 2: ended up crying so hard she threw up. This can

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Speaker 2: also happen if I don't get to her quickly enough

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Speaker 2: during the night and we're talking, you know, not like

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Speaker 2: five minutes, like three minutes. I appreciate any tips on that.

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Speaker 2: I'm a bit concerned about how this is going to

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Speaker 2: play into a transition to EOC I guess the context

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Speaker 2: is we don't have much family around and we are

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Speaker 2: expecting another little one, so that help for that extra

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Speaker 2: three days a week is something I'm kind of thinking

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Speaker 2: would be great. Thank you guys, soo much. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Kylie there's a couple of things to address here.

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Speaker 1: Let's first off start with just the what are we

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Speaker 1: talking about? Parameters, definitions, logistics. You've got all kinds of

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Speaker 1: different care for children that are available. Let's just break

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Speaker 1: that down. You've got a background in the industry. I

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time working in and adjacent to

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Speaker 1: the industry. Family daycare, daycare, ELC, and whatever else is

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Speaker 1: out there. What have we got?

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Speaker 3: So there isn't really much difference between daycare centers and

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Speaker 3: early learning centers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm saying the same same.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they really are. There's just been I guess a

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Speaker 3: negative connotation placed on long daycare for so long that we've.

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Speaker 1: Reframed it's a rebrand and.

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Speaker 3: Rebranded to I guess help you feel more positive about

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Speaker 3: putting your children into care.

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Speaker 1: Put some Lippyon, make the buildings a little bit more modern,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, it's a learning cetter rather

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Speaker 1: than a long daycare.

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Speaker 3: And usually early learning centers are associated with much bigger conglomerates.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're not one offs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they're not. They're not necessarily independent or small groups. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but you've also got family daycares.

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Speaker 3: So family daycare is great because it's you know, somebody

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Speaker 3: that you would develop a relationship with and there's only three, four, five,

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Speaker 3: maybe six children.

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Speaker 1: It happens at someone's house.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's a lot more low key and more

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Speaker 3: personal and intimate.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got the higher expense stuff like you

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Speaker 1: could get a personal nanny or something like that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's available.

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Speaker 3: Whatever it is, we can actually have to be We

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Speaker 3: actually had a nanny for a small time, and by

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Speaker 3: the time you include free board and free food, you're

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Speaker 3: not actually paying them a huge amount more and I

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Speaker 3: would say that compared to daycare costs, you're actually going

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Speaker 3: to come out probably a little bit. When in front.

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Speaker 1: You just need to have a spare bedroom for them too,

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Speaker 1: and you've got to have somebody living with you or

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Speaker 1: at least.

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Speaker 3: The great thing about a nanny is that they actually

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Speaker 3: can do more than just take care of the kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we had somebody who was helping out for about

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Speaker 1: a year and a half and it made a big

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Speaker 1: difference at a very very hard time in our lives.

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Speaker 1: There's one other form, and that's.

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Speaker 3: Sessional kindergarten creation kindy kind of setups, and they're great too.

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Speaker 3: Because they've got a specific start time and finished time.

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Speaker 3: They're shorter days, and again usually you've got smaller ratios.

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Speaker 1: Right, So structure is really a key component of what

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Speaker 1: goes on with those sessional ones you do, like a

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Speaker 1: five day fortnight it might be Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday this

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Speaker 1: week and then Monday Tuesday next week. Or it's Wednesday, Thursday,

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Speaker 1: Friday this week and then Thursday Friday next Week's okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about what to look like look for

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Speaker 1: I should say, when you're doing the tours, Kylie, I'd

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Speaker 1: like to live in some of the childcare centers that

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Speaker 1: I've been able to work in and tour through. They've

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Speaker 1: got the chef, They've got all the fancy comfortable beds

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Speaker 1: for the kids to have their layd down on, Like

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Speaker 1: these are some incredible views some of these places. Some

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Speaker 1: of them are a lot less impressive, have far fewer resources.

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Speaker 1: And yet when I think about the experiences that our

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Speaker 1: children had as we had them in various forms of

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Speaker 1: care through the years, I think that at Cannon Hill,

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Speaker 1: just Morningside in Brisbane, the CNK, the Croatian Kindergarten there,

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Speaker 1: one of the best experiences we had for a couple

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Speaker 1: of our kids there, and then in Wollongong at a

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Speaker 1: little spot called Kiraville, there was like a I guess

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Speaker 1: it was a sessional kind of care place, wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: And we had a daughter there who Both of these

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Speaker 1: places they did not look fancy. If you did it

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Speaker 1: tour and you were looking for all the mod cons,

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Speaker 1: you were definitely at the risk of sounding snobby, turn

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Speaker 1: up your nose and go not quite we're looking for.

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Speaker 1: But the kids had the right kind of ratio, low

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Speaker 1: numbers of children to staff, they had loads and loads

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Speaker 1: and loads of activities, and most of their time was

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Speaker 1: spent outside. So when I'm thinking what do I want

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Speaker 1: for my child in an early learning context, in a

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Speaker 1: childcare context, I'm thinking structure. I'm thinking connection, and I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking the opportunity to be outside and have as much

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Speaker 1: freedom to play and explore as possible. And when I

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Speaker 1: say structure, I don't mean we're going to do this

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Speaker 1: for an hour, then this for an hour, then this

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Speaker 1: for an hour. I mean I know what days I'm

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Speaker 1: showing up and at what time, and I've got that

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Speaker 1: regular structure in my week. For me, the biggest thing

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Speaker 1: Claire would be you're really at the mercy of the staff.

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Speaker 1: I want a place that doesn't have any any breaches,

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Speaker 1: that has low staff turnover, and that has low ratios,

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Speaker 1: so we've got lots and lots of staff for very

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Speaker 1: few children. To me, that's going to be the best way.

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Speaker 1: It's not a very profitable way to run a business,

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Speaker 1: which is why the community kindergartens, the more structured kind

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Speaker 1: of kindergartens, tend to be the better way forward.

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Speaker 3: So for me, I think the most important question to

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Speaker 3: ask ourselves is why are we doing it? Often we

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Speaker 3: feel like it's just the expected next step. In this case,

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Speaker 3: clears acknowledge he is having another baby, and she would

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Speaker 3: really like a little bit of downtime to be able

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Speaker 3: to kind of connect with a new baby and just

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Speaker 3: have a bit of breathing space. And we know what

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Speaker 3: that feels like. There's been plenty, plenty of babies come

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Speaker 3: into the home and your headspace feels completely overwhelmed often

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Speaker 3: in that newborn stage. But it's also a really cool

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Speaker 3: learning stage for a three year old to navigate family

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Speaker 3: life with a new baby. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean my position is just if you don't need

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Speaker 1: to have them in care, don't because as a primary

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Speaker 1: care as the biological mum, you're going to do a

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Speaker 1: better job. And that's not to throw shade it all

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Speaker 1: the great people who work in early child care, but

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Speaker 1: most of them will probably not out the head and say yes, Actually,

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Speaker 1: parents will typically do a better job looking up for

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Speaker 1: their own children than we will in a center where

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Speaker 1: there's a whole of other kids. Your child doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have to be socialized at that age, like they're going

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Speaker 1: to be getting other playdate experiences. I'm sure that they're

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Speaker 1: not being completely isolated, so I just i'd be questioning

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Speaker 1: the assumption that care is required. That's probably the last

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Speaker 1: thing that I'd say.

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Speaker 3: One of the biggest challenges you have when you have

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Speaker 3: a baby and you have an older child that you

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Speaker 3: then place in care is that feeling of displacement in

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Speaker 3: the family, and it actually can often create more challenge

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Speaker 3: for you than actually just having them.

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Speaker 1: At home, which ties in very much with the second

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Speaker 1: part of Claire's question, big emotions. After the break, a

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Speaker 1: quick touch on that it's The Happy Family's podcast. Stay

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Speaker 1: with this, We're back with the Happy Families podcast. Claire's

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Speaker 1: child is having really big emotions and separation could be

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Speaker 1: an issue, Kylie. Based on that, and based on the

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Speaker 1: fact that there's a new child coming into the family,

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Speaker 1: I'm reticent to say that it's going to be great

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Speaker 1: idea just at them and care like, I think that

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Speaker 1: there could be more challenges based on the fact that

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Speaker 1: this child vomits within a couple of minutes of not

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Speaker 1: getting the attention that she feels that she needs. We

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Speaker 1: did a podcast episode just couple of weeks ago about

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Speaker 1: dropping kids off to care and they're big emotions. So

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Speaker 1: we're linked to that in the show notes, but I

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Speaker 1: just want to spend two minutes max addressing this particular issue.

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Speaker 3: As we have gone through our parenting journey, the one

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Speaker 3: thing that I know to be true is most of

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Speaker 3: it is hard. We just yet to decide which hard

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Speaker 3: we're going to choose. So having your three year old

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Speaker 3: at home with a newborn baby is going to be hard,

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Speaker 3: but so we're putting them into daycare, and so our

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Speaker 3: job is to pick the hard that we're willing to

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Speaker 3: live with.

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Speaker 1: Right, And that's the reality, and once you've picked it,

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Speaker 1: live with it. So the other thing to bear in

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Speaker 1: mind here is if you've got a child who is

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Speaker 1: not separating. Well, then we want to develop the developmentally

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Speaker 1: kids are supposed to want to be with their parents.

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Speaker 1: And what your child is doing by having a big

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Speaker 1: reaction to separation is it's probably bigger than what is typical,

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Speaker 1: but it's completely appropriate for your child right now because

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Speaker 1: that's where they're at.

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Speaker 3: This is she knows that some thing's happening. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 3: a big change happening in.

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Speaker 1: Babe on the Way parents a little bit. Absolutely, So

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Speaker 1: we don't need to pathologize this, we don't need to

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Speaker 1: turn it into something else. It really is one of

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Speaker 1: those things where your child will developmentally mature through it

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Speaker 1: with ongoing experience and with increased cognition and capacity and

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Speaker 1: emotion regulation. So at this point, all I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say is, Claire, pick up a copy of my book

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Speaker 1: What Your Child Needs from You, because it will give

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Speaker 1: you the basics that you need to work through the

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Speaker 1: empathy and the understanding and the challenges associated with the separations.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to find that this will be a

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Speaker 1: growing problem with childcare, and so it's going to be

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Speaker 1: something that you want to tread fairly carefully towards Kylie,

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Speaker 1: I think that's pretty much it for today. We've got

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Speaker 1: another really big interview on the podcast tomorrow. Lenorskanazzi, previously

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Speaker 1: known as the World's Worst Mum, is having a conversation

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Speaker 1: with me about her recent TED talk. Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: it's such a great chat. I can't wait to share

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Speaker 1: it with you, and it ties in a little bit

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Speaker 1: with some of the things that Claire's been talking about,

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Speaker 1: but extends into bigger kids as well. Join us tomorrow

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Speaker 1: for that. Plus do ADHD drugs work? A major Aussie

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Speaker 1: study has a shock conclusion. We've got to talk about

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Speaker 1: that on Thursday. The Happy Families podcast is produced by

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Speaker 1: Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Vim Hammonds provides additional admin,

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Speaker 1: research and other support and if you would like more

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Speaker 1: resources to make your family happier, like I said, check

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Speaker 1: out What Your Child Needs from You and all the

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Speaker 1: other books at Happy families dot com dot a