1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,359 Speaker 1: This story contains distressing details, particularly for First Nations listeners. 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: If it raises any issues for you, First Nations listeners 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: can call thirteen yarn that's thirteen ninety two seventy six 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: and will put that number in the show notes as well. 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Or you can join us again on the show tomorrow already. 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: And this is the Daily Art. This is the Daily OS. 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 3: Oh, now it makes sense. 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 4: It's Wednesday, the ninth of July. 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 3: I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Emma Gillespie. 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: The Northern Territory Coroner has handed down the long awaited 12 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: findings in the inquest into the killing of nineteen year 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: old Wolpury luricher Man Kumunjaii Walker. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 4: By then police officer Zachary Rolf. 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: The coroner has found that Rolf was a racist, embedded 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: in a racist culture at. 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 4: Northern Territory Police, and. 18 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: That Walker's death was avoidable. In today this podcast, we'll 19 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: explain the coroner's findings about Rolf and Walker's lives and 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: her recommendations to the Territory government and police. 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: Lucy, it's hard to believe it's been six years since 22 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 3: the death of Kumenjai Walker. This story has really dominated 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 3: headlines or been kind of omnipresent in the news cycle 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 3: ever since. Yeah, for many reasons. There's been a court case, 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 3: there's been criminal investigations, and of course this inquest, which 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: reached a conclusion this week with the final report from 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: the coroner. All of that is to say, this has 28 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 3: been a really long time coming. So can you give 29 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: us a bit of a sense of the timeline of 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: the past six years to help us kind of understand 31 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: where this has all come from. 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so this really begins on the ninth of November 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. That's when Northern Territory Police officer Zachary Rolf 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: entered a home in the remote town of Yondermoux with. 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 4: His colleague Adam Oberl. He was there to arrest. 36 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: Kumenjai Walker, who had left an alcohol rehab facility to 37 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: attend a family funeral. The arrest went wrong feels like 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: an understatement. It went very badly wrong. In a physical altercation, 39 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Walker stabbed Rolf in the shoulder with a pair of 40 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: surgical scissors. While Eberl was trying to restrain Walker, Rolf 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: shot him several times. Walker was then taken to Yuendumu 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 1: police station where he died. Rolf was tried and found 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: not guilty of murdering Walker in March twenty twenty two. 44 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: To the concert of Walker's family, the jury had no 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: Aboriginal members. A coronial inquest, the one that we're talking 46 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: about today, began in September of that year. So September 47 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two to the present is the time that 48 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: this inquest has been taking place. 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 3: Okay, So just to recap, in twenty nineteen two, Northern 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: Territory police officers arrest Kumenjai Walker. During that arrest there 51 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 3: is a physical altar case Qumin Diy Walker ends up 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 3: being shot several times by Zachary Rolf and he later 53 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 3: dies in police custody at the station in Yondermu. What 54 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: is a coronial in quest, Lucie? What does that all involve? 55 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's important to specify that it's not 56 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: a trial. It's not carried out by a judge. It 57 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: can't make a finding of guilt or innocence. It's something 58 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: that can happen before or after a trial, and basically 59 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: it's held when someone dies in circumstances that are not 60 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: readily explainable or in very specific circumstances. So if a 61 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, say, an eighty five year old was to 62 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: die in their sleep, that wouldn't be cause for a 63 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: coronial inquestka, But other forms of deaths are the subject 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: of these in the Northern Territory. They're held when a 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: person dies in quote unexpected, unnatural or violent circumstances, including 66 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: when a person was held in or immediately before death, 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: was held in care or custody. 68 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: So you mentioned that a coronial inquest is not a 69 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: criminal court hearing, but we'll hear the coroner's court referred 70 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 3: to in these kinds of stories. But when not talking 71 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: about the kind of court we might think of. 72 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't find someone guilty of a crime or 73 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: sentence them to jail or anything like that. They can 74 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: only make findings about the person's death, and they can 75 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: also make recommendations to improve public health and safety as 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: a result of what they've found. So, for example, if 77 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: a house burns down, the coroner might investigate the causes 78 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: of the house burning down and make recommendations to prevent 79 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: further houses from burning down in similar ways. 80 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense. So you mentioned that this inquest 81 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 3: began in September twenty twenty two, at that point, three 82 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: years after Cooman Jy Walker's death, and it's now been 83 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: another three years. It's been quite a long running in quest. 84 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: What did it involve? And bluntly, why did it take 85 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 3: so long? 86 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of reasons, I think. I mean, 87 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: the main reason why it took so long is that 88 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: there was a lot to investigate and a lot to understand. 89 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: The inquest had many rounds of hearings. It heard from 90 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: a lot of different people. It heard from people in 91 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: Yon Demu on the day that Kamenjai Walker was shot 92 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: and then died. 93 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 4: It heard from nt police. 94 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: So its rounds of hearings were September to November twenty 95 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: twenty two, then again in early twenty twenty three, and 96 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: then again another three sets of hearings in twenty twenty four. 97 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 3: Okay, so it hasn't been consistently running week in week 98 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 3: out for three years. 99 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: No, in the same way that you might think of. 100 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: I know, yesterday we were talking about the trial of 101 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson, so that runs straight through for ten weeks. 102 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: This is different. This is as different kinds of people 103 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: become available to come to the coroner in Alice Springs 104 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: than there were different sets of hearings or as the 105 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: coroner had different questions to ask for things to investigate. 106 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: So the first thing I wanted to touch on the 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: kind of evidence that the coroner, her name is Elizabeth Armitage, 108 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 1: so the kind of evidence that she was looking at. 109 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: She expanded her scope of reference to look into racism 110 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: in the ant Police force while the inquest was ongoing. 111 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: She said, one of the reasons she examined evidence about 112 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: racism in the force was quote to investigate whether mister Rolf, 113 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: so that's Zachary Rolf, the police officer held racist attitudes 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: towards Aboriginal people, and if he did, whether his conduct 115 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: was influenced by that racism in a way that increased 116 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: the likelihood of death. Because, as I said, the coroner's 117 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: job is to find out the reasons why a person died, 118 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: what happened when a person died, and then to make 119 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: recommendations to avoid that situation in the future. So she 120 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: was trying to find out why Rolph shot Walker and 121 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: to make recommendations about the ant Police's approach. And she 122 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: found that evidence of racism in the force was relevant 123 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: because it allowed her to make recommendations about how the 124 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: police approaches Aboriginal people that it's seeking to arrest. 125 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: Okay, So Ralph the officer in question, he was actually 126 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: questioned throughout this inquest or. He was called upon to 127 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: give his version of events and face questioning from Elizabeth 128 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 3: Armitage what happened there. 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: He sought to avoid appearing at the inquest during its first. 130 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 4: Year of hearings. 131 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: Okay. 132 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: He made legal appeals to avoid having to face the inquest. 133 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: At that point he had already been through the criminal 134 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: trial that had acquitted him of murder, so he was 135 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: seeking to avoid appearing at the inquest. He did speak 136 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: eventually in February twenty twenty four. He had been granted 137 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: quote self incrimination protection. This meant that he couldn't face 138 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: legal consequences for admissions. 139 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: That he made. 140 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: And again, as I said, it's not a trial. He 141 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: had already been through a trial and had been acquitted okay, 142 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: but his legal team had sought for there to be 143 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: protections from any further the possibility of criminal charges around 144 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: things that he might say. 145 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: Okay, so he was cleared of those murder charges. He 146 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 3: did not want to appear at the inquest, but eventually 147 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 3: agreed to on the grounds that basically anything he said 148 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: would not result in further criminal proceedings. Yes, knowing that 149 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: this inquest did go on for so long and heard 150 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 3: from so many different people, different stakeholders, community representatives, law 151 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 3: enforcement representatives, can you give us some of the key findings? 152 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: So, I mean, even within things that I would consider 153 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: the key findings, there's a lot to break down. When 154 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: we got the inquest document, which is more than six 155 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: hundred pages, I said to you, Wow, there's just so 156 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: much here, and all of it is important. So I'll 157 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: start with what the coroner heard at the inquest and 158 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: what she has found about Kumunjai Walker himself. He was 159 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: nineteen when he died, which we knew he had been 160 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: exposed to substances including alcohol, cannabis, and sniffing petrol since 161 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: he was at least thirteen. At least part of his 162 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: childhood had involved violence within the family unit. He couldn't 163 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: cope with normal school. He had issues with his hearing 164 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: that also weren't adequately treated when he was a child. 165 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: A psychologist who worked with him when he was a 166 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: teenager found Walker had no ability to regulate his emotions 167 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: and was very disconnected from his body. The psychologist said, 168 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: he was so dissociated that's a medical term, from his 169 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: body due to trauma that when she tried to teach 170 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: him a breathing exercise, she said, quote, he had absolutely 171 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: no awareness whatsoever of his breath even entering his body. 172 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: He spent the majority of his adolescents. The specific wording 173 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: used was more than half of each year of every 174 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: year from ages thirteen to eighteen, he spent under some 175 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: form of legal restriction, so that could look like bail, 176 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: court orders, juvenile detention. These related to a range of 177 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: crimes in including break ins and domestic violence towards his 178 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: then girlfriend. Okay, So, in short, a very troubled young 179 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: person with what the coroner called poor impulse control, which 180 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: she found was not helped by repeated detentions and restrictions. 181 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: In the days before his death, he had threatened police 182 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: officers with an axe and run away. 183 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 4: That's in the town of Jundamu. 184 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: Okay. So these findings have painted a picture of as 185 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: you said, or in the coroner's words, is very troubled 186 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 3: young person who had a frequent engagement with law enforcement, 187 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 3: with the system a life that was really marred by 188 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: all this inequality and lack of support. Yep, that is 189 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 3: certainly the picture that's been painted. So let's talk about 190 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 3: the day that kumen Ji Walker died, the day he 191 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: was shot. Why was he in Jundimou on that day? 192 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: He'd traveled there for a family funeral, but he was 193 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: under conditions at that time that he needed to stay 194 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: at a rehab for s and Alice Springs. Those were 195 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: court ordered conditions and. 196 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 3: This was an alcohol rehabilitation facility. 197 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 4: Okay, So, as I touched on. 198 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 3: He had substance abuse, Yeah. 199 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: Access to substances, exposure to substances from the beginning of 200 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,119 Speaker 1: his adolescence. So he was at an alcohol rehab facility 201 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: in Alice Springs, which is about three hundred k's from Yondermu. 202 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: He had to wear an ankle bracelet and electronic monitoring bracelet. 203 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: He cut it off his leg and traveled to Yondamu 204 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: for the family funeral. The coroner found this was because 205 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: quote the desire to be with his family for funeral 206 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: and ceremony obligations overrode any commitment to the conditions set 207 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 1: by the court, even if it meant that. 208 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 4: His freedom would be short lived. 209 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 3: Okay. 210 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: Breaching these conditions meant that police were bound to arrest 211 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: him because he had breached court ordered conditions. 212 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 3: Okay. So that's what the coroner found about Kumenji Walker, 213 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: reflecting on his life, his adolescence, his background, the circumstances 214 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: leading up to the day he died, and what brought 215 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: him to yundermu. What about Zachary Rolf, This is the 216 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: Northern Territory Police officer involved. 217 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: So Coroner Elizabeth Armitage found that Walker and Rolf's lives 218 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: were quote far removed. Those were her words, far removed 219 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: from each other. She said Rolf had had a loving 220 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: childhood in Canberra, after which he joined the Defense Force 221 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: and then sought to join the police. The way that 222 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: he sought to join the police was that he applied 223 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: to police forces in multiple states and in the Northern 224 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: Territory four different ones. On each of these applications he 225 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: either lied or failed to disclose important information. So this 226 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: included previous drug use and charges relating to theft and 227 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: to public nuisance and violent behavior. When Queensland Police checked 228 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: his records and found out that he had lied on 229 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: this application, it blocked him from reapplying for ten years. 230 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 3: That is really significant. I mean, I'm not sure how 231 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: things go in most states, but the idea of someone 232 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 3: wanting to be a police officer and applying to do 233 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: so in four states and territories, having this criminal history 234 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 3: that Zachary Rolf had, it just seems like a very 235 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 3: interesting point. Yes, but we do know ultimately he becomes 236 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: a police officer in the Northern Territory. So I guess 237 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 3: my question is how did he do that? What kind 238 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 3: of testing or process did they have in place. 239 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: So while when he receives this notice from Queensland Police 240 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: at the same time his anti police application is progressing, 241 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: he undergoes a psychological test. It finds his quote less 242 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: likely than many others to own up to a mistake, 243 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: is more aggressive than others, and while this was not 244 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: yet a concern, it said he had the potential to 245 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: resent authority figures. The inquest heard the Anti Police force 246 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: did not check Rolf's criminal record and considered him an 247 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: ex candidate. And also there's doesn't seem to be evidence 248 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: that they ever heard from Queensland Police about his restrictional applying. 249 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 3: There, Okay, that's a ten year ban and this is 250 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 3: he was considered an excellent candidate after undergoing a series 251 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 3: of tests that would include that psychological evaluation. 252 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. 253 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: As a police officer, the coroner found Rolf quote had 254 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: a tendency to rush into situations even if they were unsafe, 255 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: and that he had been forceful in arresting Aboriginal boys 256 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: and men, causing them injuries on a few occasions in 257 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: the past. The inquest heard Rolph sent videos recorded on 258 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: his body worn camera body cam. You might have heard 259 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: it called to others in his life. 260 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: So police footage recorded as during an arrest, and then 261 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: he has shared that with. 262 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: People on this side of the force, yes, including people 263 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: outside of the force, of times that he had injured 264 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: people he was arresting. The coroner found he quote thought 265 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: this was funny. 266 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 3: Lucy. You mentioned at the top the episode that ultimately 267 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: the coroner did find racism was involved, or that Zachary 268 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: Rolf was a racist officer. 269 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 4: That's right. 270 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: What was the nature of that finding specifically. 271 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: So Armitage found that Rolf was a racist, and not 272 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: only was he a racist, he was embedded in a 273 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: racist culture in the anti police force. And I remember 274 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: when we covered Rolf's evidence at the inquest. That was 275 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: a huge aspect of it was this evidence that he 276 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: himself brought to demonstrate a racist culture within the anti 277 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: police force. 278 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember that at the time and tell me 279 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 3: if I'm wrong. But I think his suggestion was you 280 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: shouldn't be looking at me the individual, you should be 281 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: looking at systemic issues. 282 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something the coroner's report reflected as well. 283 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: Armitage said she couldn't rule out the possibility that racism 284 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: was a contributing factor to Walker's death, So she couldn't 285 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: rule it in, but she couldn't rule it out. 286 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: I cannot exclude that possibility. Is a tragedy for Kuminjay's 287 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: family and community, who will always believe that racism played 288 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: an integral part in his death, and it is a 289 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 2: taint that may stain the NT police. 290 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: Okay, So, Lucy, you've painted this picture for us of 291 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 3: the life of Kumenjai Walker, the life of Zachary Rolf, 292 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 3: the circumstances leading up to Walker's death. What kind of 293 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: a police officer Rolf was? What did the coroner say 294 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 3: or find about the day that they met that fateful 295 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: November twenty nineteen arrest. 296 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: So Armitage found that remember I mentioned earlier that their 297 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: life experiences were so far removed from each other. She 298 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: found that neither of them understood each other's reactions on 299 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: that day. She also found that Rolf and Adam Abol 300 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: who was the other cop there, should have planned the 301 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: arrest quote carefully. Remember I mentioned that Kumanji had run 302 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: at some police officers with an edged weapon in the 303 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: previous days. Now there was a plan in place for 304 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: his arrest. It would have taken place at five am 305 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: on the tenth of November. A group of police went 306 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: from Alice Springs to Jundamu to execute this plan, which 307 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 1: had been designed by senior officers. But once they got there, 308 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: Rolf overrode the plan and said they would go to 309 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: arrest Walker that night, the ninth. Then the altercation that 310 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: we've already described took place, so he's rushed in, as 311 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 1: the coroner found he had a history of doing. 312 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 3: This is I think a really fundamental finding. As you 313 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 3: mentioned in the six hundred pages of this report from 314 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 3: the ANTIQ coroner, there is so much important detail there, 315 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 3: but this almost sliding doors moment of what could have 316 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 3: been that there was a plan in place for an arrest. 317 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 3: The following day. Yet the night before this took place 318 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 3: and the shooting unfolded, what can you tell us about 319 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: the that night? 320 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? 321 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: Oh, and before I do, I should just say we'll 322 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: link the inquest in the show notes. And even though 323 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: we have said it's more than six hundred pages, it's 324 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: actually not that difficult to read. Is written in fairly 325 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: plain language. 326 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 3: And kind of bullet points by theme. 327 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 4: I guess. 328 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, so if it's not going to be I mean, 329 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: it's obviously emotionally difficult to read, but it's not like 330 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: a legal document. It's quite easy to read in that sense. 331 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: So we will link it if people are interested in 332 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: finding out more themselves. But back to the ninth of 333 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: November twenty nineteen. So, after Rolf shot Walker, he and 334 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: a bearl quote dragged him to their police car. That's 335 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: what the inquest heard. The officer's treatment of Walker distressed 336 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: his family who were around, and was not in line 337 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: with police policy. At the Yundimu police station, Rolf gave 338 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: Walker first aid. 339 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 3: This was after he'd already been shot several times. 340 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's been dragged to the car, taken to 341 00:18:58,600 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: the station. 342 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 3: Why wasn't he taken to a hospital? 343 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: So there's not a I mean, there's not a hospital 344 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: in this remote town. There's a health clinic, but the 345 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: health clinic was at that moment closed for other ongoing 346 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: reasons in Yondermoux, and the. 347 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 4: Staff were elsewhere. 348 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: But the car owner kind of had a mixed finding 349 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: around how helpful they could have been, or even if 350 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,680 Speaker 1: he was airlifted to Alice Springs Hospital, how much time 351 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: they necessarily had in order to treat his wounds. But 352 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: at any rate, he was given first aid at the station, 353 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: but they didn't have the supplies necessary. Walker's condition deteriorated 354 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: and he died on the floor of a cell at 355 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: the police station. While he was inside, a senior Aboriginal 356 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: community police officer told the police officers inside to lock 357 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: the station door because a crowd had gathered outside, having 358 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: seen Walker being dragged to the police car and having 359 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: heard gunshots. They were throwing rocks at the building. Walker's 360 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: adopted mother remained at the house where he was shot. 361 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: He had grandparents who lived very close to the police station, 362 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: but they weren't notified that he had been arrested or 363 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: that he had died until early the following morning, around 364 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: the time that the arrest was planned to have taken place. 365 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 3: Okay, so it's all played out very publicly and I 366 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 3: imagine incredibly distressing scenes in a highly emotional time for onlookers. 367 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 3: But I suppose that helps the coroner paint this picture 368 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: of exactly what ended up happening on that night. You 369 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 3: said earlier that the coroner's job is to kind of 370 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 3: lay out or identify the circumstances around a death of 371 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 3: this nature and kind of take the learnings from that 372 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 3: to make recommendations, So be that for government for public health. 373 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 3: What have some of the recommendations been from this inquest? 374 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: Armatage made thirty two formal recommendations for Anti Police and 375 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: the territory government. So those included reviewing youth services in 376 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: jun Demoux and creating programs targeted at young people in 377 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: the justice system in order to kind of reduce quote, 378 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: offending behavior. She also recommended Anti Police develop a policy 379 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: of officers liaising with Aboriginal community officers quote in any 380 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: planned interaction or arrest of an Aboriginal person, and also 381 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: to intervene with officers who exhibit poor behavior much earlier 382 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: than they currently are. 383 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 3: So a lot of early intervention focused priorities and kind 384 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 3: of lived experience or culturally informed practices. What has the 385 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 3: response been like to these recommendations. 386 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, the Anti Police said it acknowledged the findings 387 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: and recommendations. It said it will consider them. Acting Anti 388 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Martin Dole said the police extend their sympathies 389 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: to Walker's family, But in the wake of that statement 390 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: and in the wake of the inquest, community leader ned 391 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: Jampajinpa Hargraves has criticized Dol. He said he had promised 392 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: to meet with the community after the findings were handed down, 393 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: but Hargraves said Dol left jun Demu without telling anyone 394 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: that he was going. 395 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 3: Lucy, thank you so much for taking us through that. 396 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: An incredibly distressing story, but a really important one and 397 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 3: one that I'm sure a lot of our audience have 398 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 3: been keeping close eye on over these last several years. 399 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to today's episode. A quick reminder 400 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 3: if this story has raised any concerns for you, particularly 401 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: for First Nations listeners, you can call one three yam 402 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: that's thirteen ninety two seventy six, or you can call 403 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 3: Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen and we will pop some 404 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 3: links to resources in today's show notes. We'll be back 405 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: a little later on today with the evening headlines, but 406 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: until then, look after yourself. 407 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 408 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: Banjelung Kalkadin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 409 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 410 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 411 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 412 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.