Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Georgie Stevenson. I am a lawyer, ten health coach,
Speaker 1: social media influencer, wife and dog mum. On the Rise
Speaker 1: and Conquer Podcast, we dive deep into all things mindset, habits, career, health,
Speaker 1: relationships and more. This is a podcast for women who
Speaker 1: want to rise up to be the best version of themselves,
Speaker 1: who have big dreams in who are willing to put
Speaker 1: in the work to get there. I want to bring
Speaker 1: you the tools and actionable steps to feel confident in yourself,
Speaker 1: inspired to take bold action, and motivated to conquer your goals.
Speaker 1: Are you with me, girl friends, Let's rise and conquer. Hi, guys,
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. Today,
Speaker 1: I have a very special guest for you, and her
Speaker 1: name is Caroline Dona. Caroline writes funny self help for
Speaker 1: chronic dietis and is the author of the book The
Speaker 1: Fucket Diet. Before she became a full time writer and
Speaker 1: mindfulness coach, she spent years as a performer trying really
Speaker 1: hard to fit in a tiny slash beautiful category. She
Speaker 1: also believed she was a food addict, and so she
Speaker 1: dieted like it was her job and she hoped it
Speaker 1: would help her meet her destiny, but all it did
Speaker 1: was crush her soul and hurt her body. Now, she
Speaker 1: runs a business called The Fucket Diet and writes about
Speaker 1: our relationship to food and weight. She runs online workshops
Speaker 1: and courses and shares cutting edge science on weight, health
Speaker 1: and metabolism. She believes that anyone can heal from food
Speaker 1: obsession and that the cure lies in the last place
Speaker 1: we thought, eating and trusting our bodies. Today, we chat
Speaker 1: about the science behind why diets don't work, how to
Speaker 1: rebuild your relationship with food, how to conquer binge eating,
Speaker 1: and the health of every size movement. When we recorded
Speaker 1: this interview, it was actually before Caroline's book went live,
Speaker 1: like it was available, and since then it is now
Speaker 1: available and I bought it myself and I read it
Speaker 1: in like a week. Well, I listened to it. I
Speaker 1: bought the audio book, and guys, it is one of
Speaker 1: the best self help diet sort of books that I
Speaker 1: have ever read and consumed, and I just cannot recommend
Speaker 1: it enough. If you struggle with a relationship to food
Speaker 1: and your body and dieting and all that stuff. Caroline
Speaker 1: is so funny and she breaks it down in a
Speaker 1: really good way. But it's also very science based, so
Speaker 1: I could not recommend it enough. Okay, now let's get
Speaker 1: into the interview. Hi Caroline, how are you today?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: How are you Georgia?
Speaker 1: I'm really good. Thank you, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on the show.
Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to get into it.
Speaker 2: It's always fun to talk to people who get it
Speaker 2: and who I'm not convincing.
Speaker 1: So let's get straight into it. Before we get into
Speaker 1: all the goodness. As this is the Rise in Conka podcast,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you what is one thing, big
Speaker 1: or small that you are rising up and conquering this week.
Speaker 3: This is going to sound a little counterintuitive, but for me,
Speaker 3: if I do not go to sleep at a good hour,
Speaker 3: for me, if I mess up that night sleep schedule,
Speaker 3: I mean it's like nighted not you know, no pun intended,
Speaker 3: but it is.
Speaker 2: I'm like a totally different person if I get a
Speaker 2: good eight hour hours of sleep compared to you know,
Speaker 2: I don't do well.
Speaker 3: I'm much less than that. I'm not my kindest best self.
Speaker 2: So I am rising and conquering good sleep habits and
Speaker 2: actually getting in bed at a reasonable hour and sleeping
Speaker 2: rising and conquering sleep so I can rise and conquer
Speaker 2: other things.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: It's so simple but so important. Do you have like
Speaker 1: a nighttime routine which helps you get to sleep or.
Speaker 2: I don't really, I'm not good with the phone. I'm
Speaker 2: still really I'm not good with the phone.
Speaker 3: But if I if it's a weak.
Speaker 2: Night and I am in bed by ten forty five,
Speaker 2: like that's my with all my friends, I'm like.
Speaker 3: Sorry, it's my curfew.
Speaker 2: I have to turn off my phone now and I
Speaker 2: don't have to fall asleep right then. But if I
Speaker 2: just need to like start the because I can't just
Speaker 2: hit the pillow and fall asleep, I need like to
Speaker 2: lie there for a little bit and decompress.
Speaker 3: So I just have my my curfew. And I don't.
Speaker 2: Always, you know, I don't always do it, but I
Speaker 2: really do feel it. So I'm like, okay, guys, sorry, friends,
Speaker 2: I need my curfew again. No texting ten forty five.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: I love that you need to have that in place,
Speaker 4: So that's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes a huge difference, huge difference.
Speaker 4: So let's get into it.
Speaker 1: So as a big advocator for like ditching diet culture
Speaker 1: and getting back in tune with your body and all
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. I'm probably one of your biggest fans,
Speaker 1: and I adore your message, and so I want you
Speaker 1: to tell the listeners what is the fucket diet?
Speaker 4: And how did it come about?
Speaker 3: So the fucking diet is exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 2: It is an anti diet, though some people are confused and.
Speaker 3: They think that.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, is the fucking diet like when you
Speaker 2: mess up your diet and then you're like fuck it. It's like,
Speaker 2: well that works because it still brings you know, like
Speaker 2: people who feel that way still I think I'm talking
Speaker 2: to them. But my fuck it mentality came after ten
Speaker 2: years of chronic dieting. Essentially, I was I thought I
Speaker 2: was a food addict. I thought I was obsessed with food.
Speaker 2: I thought that that was my problem, and I was
Speaker 2: dieting trying to get that under control and trying to
Speaker 2: heal my food addiction.
Speaker 3: So many diet it's so weird.
Speaker 2: So many diets have this this weird promise that if
Speaker 2: you stick to the diet perfectly, it'll heal your cravings.
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard that it's like like long enough, yes,
Speaker 2: one per exactly if you do it long enough, and
Speaker 2: if you do it like with some things, like with
Speaker 2: when I was a raw vegan, it was all about
Speaker 2: like if you do if you're one hundred percent raw vegan,
Speaker 2: you will heal everything and you won't crave.
Speaker 3: Cooked food together. It was so like such a cult.
Speaker 3: It was so weird.
Speaker 2: But it's that sort of the cultural dialogue around our
Speaker 2: hunger and our cravings and food and our bodies. We
Speaker 2: believe that there is something wrong with us, and if
Speaker 2: we don't constantly control it, then we're going to spin
Speaker 2: out of control. And it makes sense too, because that
Speaker 2: is what we experience. For anyone who's listening who has
Speaker 2: gone on many diets, you begin to feel more and
Speaker 2: more and more out of control with food. And for me,
Speaker 2: I couldn't put it together for the longest time, and
Speaker 2: so many of us can't because the whole culture is
Speaker 2: confused about it. But I believed I am a food addict.
Speaker 2: Look at how much I'm binging, Look at how much
Speaker 2: I could eat. I'm so hungry all the time. What
Speaker 2: is wrong with me?
Speaker 3: I need to diet harder, I need to diet better.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like this vicious cycle.
Speaker 2: It is, it is, and yet and we don't realize
Speaker 2: that we're perpetuating it with what we think is the cure,
Speaker 2: and it's just making everything worse and worse. And so
Speaker 2: when we say, like, you know, I really have no
Speaker 2: control of the food I have to diet. That's what
Speaker 2: we've experienced, we really think that that's true. And it
Speaker 2: seems so scary to let ourselves go there because we're
Speaker 2: afraid that we'll never come back from it. But the
Speaker 2: fuck a diet for me was after ten years of
Speaker 2: chronic dieting, and then even interspersed in there, I thought
Speaker 2: that I was intuitive eating At times, I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm just going to listen to my
Speaker 2: body really really really really well and.
Speaker 3: Never eat too much.
Speaker 2: And like it was this kind of like diet obsessive
Speaker 2: version of intuitive eating. I turned it into a diet.
Speaker 2: I thought that the only reason that anyone would ever
Speaker 2: write a book about eating was for the purpose of
Speaker 2: eating less. So even if the book was give you know,
Speaker 2: the book does give good advice, I couldn't hear it.
Speaker 3: I just couldn't.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people do a similar
Speaker 2: thing where they're like, Okay, this is a great idea.
Speaker 2: I'll eat intuitively and make sure I never eat too
Speaker 2: much and stay really skinny. And that's still a diet.
Speaker 2: You know, we're still kind of in that weird restricted.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it's so funny you
Speaker 1: say that, because, like I was telling you before, I
Speaker 1: have an ebook that is all about sort of you know,
Speaker 1: ditching diet culture intuitive eating. And it's so funny because
Speaker 1: one of the most sast questions I get with it
Speaker 1: is is okay, cool, so I can get this a book,
Speaker 1: I can start intuitive eating And how can I intuitive
Speaker 1: eat and lose weight?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And you're missing the point here, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: But it's like the logical next step, yeah for diet ors.
Speaker 2: So like, okay, I understand that dieting isn't helping me.
Speaker 2: I understand these rules are kind of messing up my
Speaker 2: own hunger fullness. So how can I become perfect at
Speaker 2: hunger and fullness and you know, control my weight? And really,
Speaker 2: there are so many myths about health and weight and
Speaker 2: food and calories and our appetites and trusting our appetite
Speaker 2: and this is really what the fucket diet became because
Speaker 2: my moment of fuck it, I am insane around food,
Speaker 2: I am miserable.
Speaker 3: I only think about food. I'm starving all of the time.
Speaker 2: I just binged on disgusting paleo gross like I'm calling
Speaker 2: them cupcakes but they taste like chalk, Like what.
Speaker 3: Am I doing? I've been doing this for ten years.
Speaker 2: And the thing that kind of flipped it for me
Speaker 2: is I was trying to be paleo at the time.
Speaker 2: And this is over seven years ago at this point,
Speaker 2: but it was at the end of my like ten
Speaker 2: year long madness with food, going back and forth and dieting,
Speaker 2: the binging to dieting and bingeting, thinking I was intuitive
Speaker 2: eating and going.
Speaker 3: On another diet.
Speaker 2: I started reading people reading from people in the paleo
Speaker 2: community or even kind of like the ex paleo community,
Speaker 2: saying that going low carb messed up their hormones and
Speaker 2: messed up their metabolism. And I just remember that was
Speaker 2: a huge light bulb moment for me that I'd never
Speaker 2: ever ever considered before that my dieting was doing the
Speaker 2: exact opposite of what I thought it was doing and
Speaker 2: what I was trying to do, you know, I was
Speaker 2: trying to be healthy and that was the beginning for me.
Speaker 2: And then there was my big my birthday binge on
Speaker 2: like disgusting paleo cupcakes that I made for myself, but
Speaker 2: I didn't put any sugar in the recipe because I
Speaker 2: was going to make them even quote unquote healthier, and
Speaker 2: I just like I had like a moment, like a
Speaker 2: really I call it an epiphany because it was that intense,
Speaker 2: but I just realized that I was going to keep
Speaker 2: doing this forever unless I deliberately stepped out of the madness.
Speaker 3: I was. Also I went to.
Speaker 2: School for a musical theater, so that was sort of
Speaker 2: my way of being over fixated on being thin and
Speaker 2: looking a certain way and feeling like it was really
Speaker 2: important for my career and my destiny or whatever.
Speaker 3: And so I.
Speaker 2: Deliberately decided to step away from that, at least for
Speaker 2: a time, you know, back then, because I realized in
Speaker 2: that moment that what I didn't realize when I tried
Speaker 2: to be an intuitive eater the first time. I realized
Speaker 2: that my obsession with being thin and controlling my weight
Speaker 2: was the core of the problem. And I knew that
Speaker 2: I had to, like emotionally and physically let that go
Speaker 2: trust my body and that that was the only way
Speaker 2: that I was going to get to a place where
Speaker 2: I I truly let myself eat and really listen.
Speaker 1: Why do you think we have this like obsession with
Speaker 1: trying to fit into one tiny little category of beauty
Speaker 1: and a way we should look. Like thinking about it,
Speaker 1: it just makes me so annoyed and so crazy. But
Speaker 1: it's so true that we all think we should be
Speaker 1: the certain size and look this certain way. It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's crazy, but I understand why it's happening because
Speaker 2: of all of this misinformation. Essentially, like we most of
Speaker 2: us grow up believing that thin is healthy, the thinner
Speaker 2: the better, the thinner healthier, and that weight or fatness
Speaker 2: or being in a bigger body is inherently unhealthy, inherently
Speaker 2: the cause of the person, like the person's fault, and
Speaker 2: inherently ugly. That's what we are top, you know. And
Speaker 2: the more we see that reinforce, the more we believe it.
Speaker 2: And you know, the health misinformation is really heartbreaking because
Speaker 2: the study and this is something this is another huge
Speaker 2: thing that opened up my eyes and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this this is really helpful, Like this
Speaker 2: is really really helpful to even further justify why obsessing
Speaker 2: over being thin is not only like messed up in
Speaker 2: an emotional way, in a feminist way, but in an.
Speaker 3: Actual health way. That body diversity is real, Like it
Speaker 3: really is real.
Speaker 2: And I follow this account now on Instagram called Historical
Speaker 2: Fat People.
Speaker 3: I think that's what it's called.
Speaker 2: And it's just pictures of pictures and paintings of fat people,
Speaker 2: like through time of them, of people being like, look,
Speaker 2: we're talking about this as if it's this new thing
Speaker 2: caused by like modern food. Fat people have always existed,
Speaker 2: always existed. And the fascinating thing is that in the past,
Speaker 2: the fatter people were believed to be healthier, which is
Speaker 2: so opposite of what we think now.
Speaker 4: Like completely flipped now completely.
Speaker 3: Flipped, I mean I think, I mean it's healthier.
Speaker 2: And they survived famines, you know, they were like the
Speaker 2: sturdier stock, you know, and the you know, the people
Speaker 2: who were really thin and couldn't keep on weight, they
Speaker 2: were the ones that died in the famine. So and
Speaker 2: it's not just that, it's that there are scientists who
Speaker 2: are breaking down these studies and saying, look, they're not
Speaker 2: accounting for this and that, and they're not talking about
Speaker 2: the weight regain. They're not talking about about how a
Speaker 2: year and two years down the line, everyone has gained
Speaker 2: all the weight back and more and their health is
Speaker 2: worse than it was before they even started. So focusing
Speaker 2: on how diets quote unquote work and how it improves
Speaker 2: your health in the super short term, it's really not
Speaker 2: looking at the big picture and at how you can
Speaker 2: improve your health without losing weight. I mean, not everybody can,
Speaker 2: and the focus on weight is actually detrimental to our
Speaker 2: health long term. And the people who focus on sustainable life,
Speaker 2: affirming habits, intuitive eating, joyful movement that those people and
Speaker 2: there have been studies that have done this, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to recommend some books. I mean, it's in my
Speaker 2: book too, but there are some really great books that
Speaker 2: break down the science behind this. That women in larger
Speaker 2: bodies who change their habits over time, all of their
Speaker 2: health markers can improve even if their body does doesn't
Speaker 2: lose weight. And it's just this fascinating, like turning everything
Speaker 2: we believe about health and weight on its head and
Speaker 2: understanding that, I mean, the amount of fatter people who
Speaker 2: read my blog and who have followed me for a
Speaker 2: while who've reached out and said, I, you know, have
Speaker 2: been living on eight hundred calories a day for like
Speaker 2: four years and I haven't lost weight, and my health
Speaker 2: is horrible, and my doctors keep telling me that it's
Speaker 2: because I'm fat, not because I am not eating any food.
Speaker 2: And it's just like it's so heartbreaking because it's it's
Speaker 2: gone so far that that's what, you know, our medical
Speaker 2: community believes. That's it's really really fascinating and heartbreaking bias
Speaker 2: towards towards weight and fatness. So all of this is
Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to take in in the beginning.
Speaker 2: It's so opposite of what we have always believed and
Speaker 2: always been told. And but it's really I think important
Speaker 2: to begin to talk about this and educate people on this,
Speaker 2: not only for ourselves but also for the way that
Speaker 2: we view other people and the way you know, I
Speaker 2: did it.
Speaker 3: I used to believe that at.
Speaker 2: Least I was doing some better than them, right, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm doing a terrible job of my diet. I am
Speaker 2: a glutton, I am obsessed with food, but at least
Speaker 2: I'm able to get it back under control. Meanwhile, it's
Speaker 2: just lucky I've yo yoed a lot, but I've always
Speaker 2: yo yoed in a lower weight range, you know, because
Speaker 2: that's just with my genetics. But yeah, it's crazy misinformation.
Speaker 2: I'm being really really like, I actually you sent me
Speaker 2: some awesome questions and I like wrote it everything, and.
Speaker 3: I am realizing that I didn't write it. I'm not
Speaker 3: reading from it at all. I'm like going all over
Speaker 3: the place right now.
Speaker 1: But I love that question that and I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: That's something that I had to do and sort of
Speaker 1: my process is obviously I live a lot on Instagram,
Speaker 1: but just following other accounts of different body sizes. Like
Speaker 1: to me before that, all I followed was one type
Speaker 1: of girl who was usually white, who was usually.
Speaker 4: Usually blonde, because I'm blonde.
Speaker 1: And for me it was so like, that's so simple
Speaker 1: to just follow people with other body types. But for me,
Speaker 1: I just never did it. So in my head, like
Speaker 1: you said, like I just wasn't aware. And so that
Speaker 1: even though that's quite small, that was like a big
Speaker 1: step and something that I really encourage other people to
Speaker 1: do as well, just so you realize that even though
Speaker 1: in the media and society and all that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: I know, we kind of see one sort of body
Speaker 1: type that that's not actually correct. If that makes sense.
Speaker 2: You know, it confuses us because then we're just comparing
Speaker 2: ourselves to that one tiny subset of people.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 2: It's really healing to do what you did and do
Speaker 2: what you're telling other people to do, is to follow
Speaker 2: a diverse range of different people.
Speaker 3: It's so healing, it really really is.
Speaker 1: And even for me, Like, one of the big things
Speaker 1: I realize is all I used to follow on every
Speaker 1: social media that I had was just like it was
Speaker 1: always just about fitness and health. Whereas now I follow,
Speaker 1: and of course I still do that and make sure
Speaker 1: the accounts make me feel good and all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, but I follow also just a wide range
Speaker 1: of people doing other stuff, because I feel like you
Speaker 1: can get in this rut where you think everyone's dieting
Speaker 1: and everyone's focusing this, and like it's almost like you're
Speaker 1: in this little tunnel, and then you realize that, no,
Speaker 1: the world doesn't revolve around how you look, what diet
Speaker 1: you're on, and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Yes, but you have to do deliberate work to surround
Speaker 2: yourself in an anti diet bubble because it also, you know,
Speaker 2: it still is everywhere. It is on Instagram that you know,
Speaker 2: diet culture and being obsessed with looks and weight, but
Speaker 2: it's also everywhere. I mean, it's our you know, our
Speaker 2: families talk that way, our friends talk that way, random
Speaker 2: people in the cafe talk that way.
Speaker 3: And I do think.
Speaker 2: That it's beginning to change in the media a little
Speaker 2: tiny bit, and I think that that's great, and I
Speaker 2: think that there's obviously farther to go, but but it's
Speaker 2: still kind of like, you know, diet culture still rules
Speaker 2: the day.
Speaker 1: So I think also, like you said, a kind of
Speaker 1: shift I'm noticing is just people being aware, which I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like is the first step. Like I
Speaker 1: feel like there's just so many people who aren't even
Speaker 1: aware what diet culture is sort of thing like that,
Speaker 1: which is crazy, But it's great that people like we're
Speaker 1: putting out this message and then people start thinking about
Speaker 1: about this sort of thing and they can start to
Speaker 1: sort of slowly shift and change the ways and that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But I wanted to switch gears and
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about something because this is
Speaker 1: something I figured out from myself, from my own behavior,
Speaker 1: and I just find it so interesting and it's just
Speaker 1: so backwards. But I wanted you to explain to the audience,
Speaker 1: like how dieteen actually makes us more fixated on food.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's so fascinating. Again, it's this like complete one
Speaker 2: eedy right. So it's very chemical, actually restricting our food
Speaker 2: even just a little bit, even just restricting like a
Speaker 2: teeny bit less than what we need to run our
Speaker 2: whole body. It raises our grellin, which is the hunger hormone,
Speaker 2: and it also raises our stress hormones to keep us going,
Speaker 2: you know, because we don't actually have enough fuel.
Speaker 3: We're kind of running on stress hormones.
Speaker 2: But the hunger hormone grellin raise lowers our metabolism and
Speaker 2: actually wires our brains to constantly think about food. And
Speaker 2: it actually so our hunger hormone is high, which means
Speaker 2: that we're hungrier and our brain is actually fixating on food.
Speaker 2: And so then we think, oh my god, what's wrong
Speaker 2: with me? I have all these cravings like I need
Speaker 2: to just you know, distract myself or whatever. But it's
Speaker 2: really genuinely just the body saying, Okay, you're not eating enough.
Speaker 3: You need to eat a lot of food.
Speaker 2: With the food and it also makes food taste better,
Speaker 2: so it's it directly leads to a binge. So what
Speaker 2: we usually do when we're dieting is we're obsessing over
Speaker 2: food or we're really really hungry, we're fantasizing over food.
Speaker 2: But then we shut it down. We try to diet harder,
Speaker 2: we do whatever we can to distract ourselves or to
Speaker 2: fill up on like filler food. Yeah yeah, and then
Speaker 2: eventually you know we're we're suppressing the binge because we
Speaker 2: think that the binge is the enemy, but really the
Speaker 2: binge is just the please eat a lot of food
Speaker 2: so we can get back to normal, and then we'll
Speaker 2: get back to normal soon. But we never let that happen,
Speaker 2: and so it gets worse and worse and worse, and
Speaker 2: then actually huge binge and then put ourselves back on
Speaker 2: the diet and it just gets worse. But it's actually
Speaker 2: very very chemical.
Speaker 1: I absolutely love this because it just makes so much
Speaker 1: sense because looking back, when I was constantly dieting, all
Speaker 1: I could think about was food. It was so much
Speaker 1: like what I'm gonna have, Like at breakfast time, I
Speaker 1: might actually be thinking about what I'm going to have
Speaker 1: for morning tea, and then at morning tea. I'd be like,
Speaker 1: I have the lunch, and my world was revolving around food,
Speaker 1: and I just remember it being such a struggle to
Speaker 1: not think about food and not feel hungry and not
Speaker 1: just constantly crave things.
Speaker 4: And now that.
Speaker 1: I intuitively eat, know, don't diet or anything like that. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I eat when I'm hungry, and I love foods. I
Speaker 1: love the taste of foods. It's just not a thought
Speaker 1: that controls my life anymore, and doesn't factly. And I
Speaker 1: used to be so troubled by this because I used
Speaker 1: to think, yeah, like what is wrong with me? And
Speaker 1: like it was such a struggle, And now I just
Speaker 1: find it so effortless to not because effortless.
Speaker 2: That's such a great way of describing it. Mmmmmmm, that
Speaker 2: it really can be effortless.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love that. Thank you for explaining that.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to ask you, so obviously you said
Speaker 1: you were a chronic diet if you could tell your
Speaker 1: previous self, like when you were going through those stages,
Speaker 1: just like one thing that you wish you knew, just
Speaker 1: so maybe you know, you could get on this new
Speaker 1: way of living faster, and that sort of thing, like
Speaker 1: what would it be.
Speaker 2: I think it would be right along the lines of
Speaker 2: what we were just talking about. I think the thing
Speaker 2: that really kept me stuck was I believed that I
Speaker 2: was like a complete monster around food, and.
Speaker 3: That that was just the way that I was wired.
Speaker 3: I am addicted to food.
Speaker 2: I just believed that because that's what I that's what
Speaker 2: I seem to experience. I couldn't stop thinking about food
Speaker 2: and binging on food. So I would really just want
Speaker 2: to tell myself to just explain really quickly, it is
Speaker 2: not you. It is the dieting. This is a vicious cycle.
Speaker 2: Eating more is actually the thing that's going to get
Speaker 2: you out.
Speaker 3: Of this cycle.
Speaker 2: It's so simple, it's so simple, and now you know
Speaker 2: on the other side, and I'm sure you feel this
Speaker 2: way too, it's so obvious, like it's it's simple survival.
Speaker 3: But in the thick of.
Speaker 2: It and hearing all of this, you know, diet drama
Speaker 2: from everyone else and everyone else talking about their diets
Speaker 2: and being good and whatever, it feels like this war.
Speaker 2: If it feels like you're completely fighting your own hunger,
Speaker 2: and that it's a noble.
Speaker 1: Cause, you know, druggle, constant struggle. Yeah, one hundred percent Okay,
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, So let's move on and let's
Speaker 1: talk about the negative side effects and miss information and
Speaker 1: overall ugly side of diet culture. So tell us, like,
Speaker 1: what some ways that a diet can fuck up your body?
Speaker 1: As you would say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it really does well. First, what it does.
Speaker 2: Is it slows down your body. It slows down your
Speaker 2: metabolism to save your life. I mean, the purpose is
Speaker 2: to make it so you're able. You're actually sacrificing other
Speaker 2: parts of your body to focus.
Speaker 3: On staying alive.
Speaker 2: And that's why you're fixated on food. Your metabolism is lower,
Speaker 2: your heart rates lower, and you hold on to weight
Speaker 2: faster in this state too, which is the other thing
Speaker 2: that makes us believe that we need the diet harder
Speaker 2: because we believe that we're like that everything's just going
Speaker 2: to spin out of control. Oh no, I'm gaining weight
Speaker 2: so quickly. But it's the and you know, we demonize
Speaker 2: gaining weight. We think it's this horrible, unhealthy thing, but
Speaker 2: it's actually the healthiest thing that your body can do
Speaker 2: in that state because it's trying to protect you. It's
Speaker 2: afraid that you're going to keep eating less and less
Speaker 2: and less and that this famine is going to continue
Speaker 2: and it's just trying to keep you alive.
Speaker 3: But that actually sacrifices other parts of you. So, like
Speaker 3: I said before, you.
Speaker 2: Have to run on stress hormones. You have to run
Speaker 2: on adrenaline and cortisol, which short term, you know, is okay,
Speaker 2: but long term is really really depleting to your adrenals,
Speaker 2: your adrenal glands, and also leads to inflammation. Long term,
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's talking about stress inflammation. Stress really does
Speaker 2: cause and exacerbate so many health problems.
Speaker 3: So it's this heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Thing again because we think we're being so responsible with
Speaker 2: our dieting and we're actually making things worse in the
Speaker 2: long run. And it's also the stress from us. That's
Speaker 2: another reason why it can feel kind of euphoric in
Speaker 2: the beginning, because we're literally running on adrenaline, you know,
Speaker 2: because we're not eating enough food or we're not eating
Speaker 2: enough carbs, and so it's kind of it's almost like,
Speaker 2: if you think about it in like a famine sense,
Speaker 2: it's like your body's giving you the will to live
Speaker 2: and survive and find some food, but then we don't
Speaker 2: even let it happen.
Speaker 4: You know, oh god, yes, I know. I just want
Speaker 4: to quickly butt in there.
Speaker 1: And I want to add to that because my sort
Speaker 1: of tipping point with the whole getting over my chronic
Speaker 1: dieting was I started getting all these health issues. So
Speaker 1: I started getting adult acne. I was so exhausted all
Speaker 1: the time, I had really bad mood swings. I lost
Speaker 1: my period, and so I went to like doctors and
Speaker 1: a natural path and you know, I thought there was
Speaker 1: this underlying issue. I must have an immune disease.
Speaker 4: Or something like that.
Speaker 1: And the thing is, as soon as I just started
Speaker 1: eating more and exercising less, literally all my health issues disappeared.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And it's obviously it took time and I had to
Speaker 1: do a lot with my stress and that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: but it's so simple. But like you said, like it's
Speaker 1: such a simple act of honor. I'm just dieting. But
Speaker 1: the issues that can happen because of it, I really
Speaker 1: like obviously life threatening. But yeah, it's hard because it
Speaker 1: is it's like this cycle and you don't really understand
Speaker 1: the whole thing's confusing, and yeah, but it is crazy,
Speaker 1: the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was the last thing I was going
Speaker 2: to say is that hormones. And again, I mean that's
Speaker 2: like stress hormones, and then it messes up our fertility
Speaker 2: hormones and our thyroid hormones, which leads to another, like
Speaker 2: a million other health problems. It's literally your body breaking
Speaker 2: down to keep you alive. And just like what you said,
Speaker 2: I mean, I last my period two and yet I
Speaker 2: thought that I I was going to heal my hormones
Speaker 2: by eating perfectly.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. So it's this weird ome.
Speaker 2: Like again, it's this weird cycle where like the whole
Speaker 2: our whole culture is saying you will be healthier if
Speaker 2: you can just diet better, when that, for so many
Speaker 2: of us is actually the biggest problem.
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Speaker 1: It's so funny because I'm like relaying all this information
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh, it's it's so crazy because
Speaker 1: when you're inside the bubble. Though you can't understand this,
Speaker 1: it just gets through. So previously I used to really
Speaker 1: have strong beliefs, like you know, there was good food
Speaker 1: and there was bad food, and diets weren't actually diets.
Speaker 1: It's just like a healthy way of living. I guess
Speaker 1: I had a lot of do you know about like
Speaker 1: authorexia sort of tendencies?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was me. I was completely orthoraxic. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think it's this weird sort
Speaker 1: of category where obviously I wasn't underweight enough to go
Speaker 1: to hospital or the usual signs of an eating disorder,
Speaker 1: but then I had all these like disordered patterns and behaviors.
Speaker 4: But also it was hard because I was.
Speaker 1: On social media and a lot of these I'm putting
Speaker 1: air quotes like healthy habits were encouraged and that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. So it's like this weird sort of like
Speaker 1: limbo stage where you're obviously trying to be healthy and
Speaker 1: trying to do the best for your body, but that's
Speaker 1: not always the best thing, right. Can you sort of
Speaker 1: shed some lots sorry on you know, some lives. We're
Speaker 1: told about dieting and how do we begin to change
Speaker 1: our mindset and sort of stop micrometing our diet and
Speaker 1: wait and these like healthy habits.
Speaker 3: I experienced the exact same thing.
Speaker 2: I was able to sort of hide my own disordered
Speaker 2: eating from myself by believing that I was just a
Speaker 2: health not I was just a health enthusiast.
Speaker 3: Just focus on health. So I have.
Speaker 2: Often compared diets to cults, and I know that that
Speaker 2: sounds a little bit extreme though, but it's the mentality.
Speaker 2: It's the mentality around it. And I understand we're all human,
Speaker 2: we're we're lost, we're searching for, you know, feeling good
Speaker 2: and feeling responsible and having someone tell us what we're
Speaker 2: supposed to do, and we want to do our best,
Speaker 2: we want to take care of ourselves, but we get
Speaker 2: into this mentality of my way is right. I have
Speaker 2: found like the path, you know, and that way, this
Speaker 2: other diet or these other people who don't understand, you know,
Speaker 2: the principles of my diet.
Speaker 3: They you know, they're I need to convert them or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's very but you know, it's very easy to kind
Speaker 2: of have to go all in because it becomes so
Speaker 2: all consuming and it becomes so difficult to do, and
Speaker 2: people really bond over it.
Speaker 3: The other interesting thing is, like you talked about good
Speaker 3: foods and bad foods, but.
Speaker 2: If you look at all the different kinds of diets,
Speaker 2: like every all the different diets have different hierarchy of food,
Speaker 2: like all the good foods, you know, all foods at.
Speaker 3: Some point are in the bad food category, you know.
Speaker 2: So it really does become about getting out of that
Speaker 2: cultish mindset where you're allowing other people to tell you
Speaker 2: what is good for your body, because they're all going
Speaker 2: to tell you something different, you know, and it's only
Speaker 2: us buying in that makes it that much more intense.
Speaker 2: But again, another one of the big like myths and lies,
Speaker 2: and this is the one that kind of goes through
Speaker 2: all the diets, is back to the belief that we
Speaker 2: can completely that weight is just a matter of calories
Speaker 2: and versus calories out which we just talked about how
Speaker 2: it lowers your metabolism.
Speaker 3: So it doesn't really work that way at all. We're
Speaker 3: actually wired to.
Speaker 2: Keep on weight when we're not eating as much. But
Speaker 2: I think unlearning, like really doing the research to like
Speaker 2: learn the opposite thing about the food and about this
Speaker 2: about calories. It really is a lot of unlearning because
Speaker 2: it's all the beliefs, it's all of the you know,
Speaker 2: they become subconscious beliefs that we just take as fact.
Speaker 2: And so there has to be a deliberate unlearning about
Speaker 2: all these things that have been keeping us stuck.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: So I guess my sort of question though, is, like
Speaker 1: you said, unlearning doing your own research. But I guess
Speaker 1: when you're in this state where you don't want diets
Speaker 1: and food to consume you. I sort of struggled with
Speaker 1: this because I was like, you know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to hear about the paleodet and I don't want to
Speaker 1: hear about like all this sort of stuff. But I almost,
Speaker 1: like you said, needed to do the research to be like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't need to listen to these people.
Speaker 4: And that thing.
Speaker 1: Do you suggest anything like just completely getting away from
Speaker 1: I guess it's super hard, but diet culture or like
Speaker 1: any sort of tips in that direction.
Speaker 3: I mean, it really is impossible to get away from diculture.
Speaker 2: And you can try, and you can talk to the
Speaker 2: people in your life and explain what you're learning, what
Speaker 2: you're doing, and why you don't want to talk about
Speaker 2: it anymore, and you can, you know, surround your social
Speaker 2: media with things that are positive. But it is impossible.
Speaker 2: I really think it's impossible to completely avoid. And that
Speaker 2: is what makes this so so so hard, because especially
Speaker 2: for people who are kind of teetering on the edge
Speaker 2: and want to do it but are so petrified, it's
Speaker 2: really hard to avoid.
Speaker 3: Have you ever read the book Health at Every Size
Speaker 3: or Body Respect? By chance? No?
Speaker 1: I've got Body Respect on my list though, because I
Speaker 1: heard you talking about it on your podcast, But yeah,
Speaker 1: do you recommend those? Actually, thinking back, that was a
Speaker 1: big sort of thing, and my recovery was reading a
Speaker 1: lot of books. I can't remember the names, but I
Speaker 1: read a lot of kind of like anti diet books. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: do you recommend those books?
Speaker 3: I recommend them so much.
Speaker 2: And really, because we cannot avoid diet culture. You cannot
Speaker 2: avoid the people at your work or your family or
Speaker 2: you know, on television.
Speaker 3: It's constant.
Speaker 2: So I think we kind of have to combat that
Speaker 2: by by kind of consuming as much anti diet culture
Speaker 2: and weight positive and weight neutral content that we possibly can.
Speaker 2: And again, one of the I think one of the
Speaker 2: biggest and most important pieces. And there are men I
Speaker 2: I could say that about a lot of things, but
Speaker 2: is learning about the science, the science around weight and
Speaker 2: health and food and eating that we have been so
Speaker 2: confused about that we have taken as fact that that
Speaker 2: we have all of these beliefs about and really reading
Speaker 2: these facts from scientists who are saying, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we have it wrong. I promise you can trust your body.
Speaker 2: I promise that your body is genuinely trying to take
Speaker 2: care of you. The more we can read those books
Speaker 2: and Health at Every size and by respect are really
Speaker 2: really really awesome books in that category, and I really
Speaker 2: highly recommend them.
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, that was the way that I
Speaker 3: did it.
Speaker 2: I was like non stop reading about it for probably
Speaker 2: like two or three years straight.
Speaker 3: Honestly.
Speaker 1: I love that actually, And I just wanted to butt
Speaker 1: in and say that if you go to Caroline's website,
Speaker 1: the fuck It Diet website, she does have a tab
Speaker 1: full of resources and scientif face research and all that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, So definitely have a look there if
Speaker 1: you want to start unlearning diet culture and all.
Speaker 4: That sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Yes, So I want to shift gears. I know we
Speaker 1: sort of touched on this and me and you kind
Speaker 1: of agree that it's very simple and you just need.
Speaker 4: To eat more food.
Speaker 1: But I do want to touch on binging again because
Speaker 1: I feel like it has such a stigma and people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, but you know then I binge and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, And so I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you you on your sort of recommendations on how
Speaker 1: do you sort of rebuild healthy relationship with food if
Speaker 1: you are someone who is in that binging cycle, And
Speaker 1: do you have any tips for girls who are struggling
Speaker 1: with that at the moment?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well again, kind of these myths about binging.
Speaker 2: We think, or I thought, and I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people feel like they are one of the only
Speaker 2: bingers in the world, Like I am a binger. Everyone
Speaker 2: else can diet and everyone else can eat normally, but
Speaker 2: I am this like secret monster. And we believe that
Speaker 2: the binging is the core problem that we need to heal.
Speaker 2: But binging really genuinely is.
Speaker 3: A reactive state.
Speaker 2: It's a reactive disorder, and it is a direct response
Speaker 2: to either physical restriction, so like actually restricting your food,
Speaker 2: actually eating less, actually not eating enough, or especially after
Speaker 2: you've been on a couple diets, just the mental part,
Speaker 2: just the mental restriction or the guilt over eating, or
Speaker 2: the thought that maybe tomorrow you should go on a
Speaker 2: diet that can actually affect.
Speaker 3: Your hormone levels.
Speaker 2: It can actually affect your hunger levels and lead.
Speaker 3: To a binge. So I say, you know, binging is
Speaker 3: a direct response.
Speaker 2: To restriction, but it's both actual physical restriction. And then
Speaker 2: even if you're eating enough, but you're still thinking that
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be, or that maybe tomorrow you shouldn't be,
Speaker 2: or that something's got to change, that can put you
Speaker 2: right back into the binging, which then just like continues
Speaker 2: the cycle. And I know that this is really you know,
Speaker 2: it can sound really overwhelming to like, well, how do like,
Speaker 2: how do you step out of that cycle? But stepping
Speaker 2: out of that cycle is you can't always do it
Speaker 2: in one fell swoop, right. I think it does take
Speaker 2: a little bit of trial and error. So the first
Speaker 2: obvious thing is begin to truly truly feed yourself and
Speaker 2: kind of like look at it as a sort of
Speaker 2: like if I were on a famine or a semi famine,
Speaker 2: which most famines are semi famines where you only have
Speaker 2: a little bit of food. If I were on a
Speaker 2: semi famine for however long I've been dieting, I'll say
Speaker 2: a year or ten years, what logically, just from a
Speaker 2: super biological standpoint, might my body need a lot of food,
Speaker 2: Like you'll need a lot of food for a long
Speaker 2: time before your body can calm down. And then because
Speaker 2: of diet culture and because of all of our beliefs
Speaker 2: and fears about food and weight and health, we're going
Speaker 2: to then have all of these beliefs that we need
Speaker 2: to begin to examine because that might keep you stuck
Speaker 2: in a little bit of a mental restriction guilt place.
Speaker 2: So unfortunately, I don't have a I mean, I have
Speaker 2: a magic button.
Speaker 3: It's stopped dieting.
Speaker 2: But the actual process of stopping dieting, practically for most
Speaker 2: of us, it comes with a lot of fear and resistance,
Speaker 2: and so we do need to be prepared to work
Speaker 2: through those things.
Speaker 1: I love that, and I love what you said about
Speaker 1: you don't fix it in one go. It is this
Speaker 1: like constant process that you have to work on, and
Speaker 1: it's okay that it takes time and you know you'll
Speaker 1: go through different beliefs and that sort of thing. Like,
Speaker 1: it's not I don't really think there's a quick fix,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: No, because it's so scary for people. And that's why
Speaker 2: I like to talk about the famine, because if we
Speaker 2: were in a famine and we weren't in diet culture,
Speaker 2: and it was two hundred years ago and we had
Speaker 2: like a really bad winter or something, and we finally
Speaker 2: had food again, we would be starving and we would
Speaker 2: eat so much, and everyone would be celebrating how much
Speaker 2: we were eating, and we would like be tired and
Speaker 2: like resting and repairing, and we'd gain weight and it
Speaker 2: would like be great, you know, Yeah, it wouldn't take
Speaker 2: like a day, you know, it would take a little while.
Speaker 2: But because of all of our beliefs about what we're
Speaker 2: supposed to be experiencing and how hungry were supposed to
Speaker 2: be and how much you were supposed to be eating,
Speaker 2: we panic, you know, and then we kind of like
Speaker 2: complicate the process with a lot of fear. Understandably, But
Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why I talk about the famine,
Speaker 2: because if you could just come back to that simple logic,
Speaker 2: like the famine logic, what would really happen? It can
Speaker 2: actually be really helpful to be like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: this would be fine, this is fine, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yes, love it, eat all the foods, yes, Okay.
Speaker 1: So I before you spoke about Health at Every Size,
Speaker 1: and I was just thinking, that's a new concept that
Speaker 1: I have been looking into. I honestly hadn't really heard
Speaker 1: it until maybe like six months ago. And I really
Speaker 1: would love if you could touch on that and explain
Speaker 1: that approach.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh that's well.
Speaker 2: First, I do want to recommend the book Health at
Speaker 2: Every Size. It's by Linda Bacon, and she's a scientist
Speaker 2: and she studies weight and health. It's fascinating and it'll
Speaker 2: do a way better job of explaining all of this,
Speaker 2: but I will I will give my overview. So basically,
Speaker 2: it talks about how size diversity is real. So it's
Speaker 2: counter to this sort of unspoken belief that everyone is
Speaker 2: meant to be thin. You know, if we all have
Speaker 2: good habits, we'll all just be thin and everything will
Speaker 2: be great and we'll be healthy and whatever.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 2: Actually true. Size diversity is very real, and we all
Speaker 2: have weight set ranges. So you and I will yo yo,
Speaker 2: you know, if we eat a lot of food or
Speaker 2: restrict a lot of food, we will yo yo in
Speaker 2: our weight, but it'll be within a small ish range.
Speaker 2: It'll be a couple sizes up and down, and that's it.
Speaker 3: It will be really really hard for us to go
Speaker 3: up two hundred pounds.
Speaker 2: And yet that's all our fear, right, We're like, oh no,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep going and going and going
Speaker 2: and going. But that's really I mean, unless some like
Speaker 2: big health thing happens, or a big thyral like something
Speaker 2: that's kind of more rare, I would say, that's not
Speaker 2: going to happen to us. You know, we really do
Speaker 2: yo yo within a range, and so do larger bodied people.
Speaker 3: Most of them were.
Speaker 2: Bigger as children, and of course they believed that they
Speaker 2: weren't supposed to be and they probably were put on
Speaker 2: diets early.
Speaker 3: So a lot of them have been dieting their whole lives.
Speaker 2: But they've been yoyoing too, and they've been feeling horrible
Speaker 2: about themselves, believing that it's all their fault.
Speaker 3: But they've been yoyoing within a higher range.
Speaker 2: And just understanding that we all really do have different
Speaker 2: places where our body feels safe and is able to
Speaker 2: be healthy. Now, health at every size doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: everyone is healthy at every size. That health is something
Speaker 2: we can seek regardless of size. Getting away from the
Speaker 2: thin centric paradigm, believing that everyone's just supposed to be
Speaker 2: thin and that everyone will be healthier if they're thin,
Speaker 2: because people who are yoyoing in that in a higher
Speaker 2: weight ranger, who have always been larger bodied, their health suffers.
Speaker 3: If they develop an eating disorders, say.
Speaker 2: And everyone's praising them and they get down to a
Speaker 2: lower weight, their health is suffering at that lower weight
Speaker 2: that might even be higher than you and I, because
Speaker 2: their body doesn't want to be there, and it's in
Speaker 2: this crisis state that we'd essentially be talking about this
Speaker 2: whole time. So it's unpacking the science behind that and
Speaker 2: then explaining like fascinating studies about how weight cycling actually
Speaker 2: going up and down in our weight is worse for
Speaker 2: our health and is worse for fat people's health than
Speaker 2: if they just stayed at their higher weight.
Speaker 3: And you know, slightly tweaked their their habits.
Speaker 2: And it really just breaks down the misconceptions that we
Speaker 2: have currently about weight and health. And again, I've sort
Speaker 2: of been talking about it this whole time, but it also,
Speaker 2: you know, it is advocating.
Speaker 3: For larger bodied people who are really.
Speaker 2: You know, at a disadvantage when they go to the
Speaker 2: doctor because of all of these beliefs, and it's what's
Speaker 2: sort of taught in medical school, just sort of like
Speaker 2: broad strokes about weight and health and these assumptions that
Speaker 2: you know, these people are going in saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I have me problems, and instead of just getting the
Speaker 2: physical therapy exercises that could really help them that they
Speaker 2: would give to a thinner person, they say, you have
Speaker 2: to lose weight first, and then we'll talk about what
Speaker 2: to do next.
Speaker 3: It's like that can put.
Speaker 2: Them into a whole horrible eating cycle and which makes
Speaker 2: their health even worse and long term, you know, we're
Speaker 2: not that science really is not supporting that weight long
Speaker 2: term is really possible for almost anybody that when you
Speaker 2: actually have a study that looks at it long term,
Speaker 2: and so if you do, everyone regains weight and more
Speaker 2: and their health is like worse than they even started.
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating. I'm actually not an expert on health
Speaker 2: at every size. I think it's informed the way that
Speaker 2: I talk about eating and changing a relationship to weight,
Speaker 2: but the ins and outs of all of the sime
Speaker 2: I like to say that I have data amnesia, where
Speaker 2: like I'll read all this stuff, I'll read about all
Speaker 2: these studies and then it's like poof, Yep, No, I
Speaker 2: can't refer to the specifics of those studies, but I
Speaker 2: know them in my heart.
Speaker 1: You know, that was a great sort of overview. I
Speaker 1: was actually I can't remember what it was on. I'm
Speaker 1: exactly like you, but I don't know. It may even
Speaker 1: being your podcast, But I was listening to something and
Speaker 1: they were saying it's actually really bad where you know,
Speaker 1: someone who's in a big up body will have these
Speaker 1: health issues and the doctors warn't even kind of look
Speaker 1: into it. And there's cases people literally die because yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, they haven't looked into it and they've just said, oh,
Speaker 1: you need to lose weight, when you know, like they
Speaker 1: just should have looked into the problem and that sort
Speaker 1: of thing, which is, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking, And of course I went to knees when yeah,
Speaker 2: people go in with lung cancer saying they're short of
Speaker 2: breath and the doctor says, you need to lose weight,
Speaker 2: and then they die of lung cancer a couple months later.
Speaker 2: Like it's just and even people putting off going to
Speaker 2: the doctor because they're like, oh, they're just going to
Speaker 2: tell me that I'm not eating right and they're like, meanwhile,
Speaker 2: I've been on a diet for you know, ten years,
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's really once you hear about it,
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, how did this?
Speaker 3: How did this happen? You know?
Speaker 2: And then and and the answer of how we can
Speaker 2: begin to change it is just start talking about it,
Speaker 2: which is what we're doing, which is which is good.
Speaker 1: I just also wanted to touch on what you were
Speaker 1: talking about at the start regards to sort of that
Speaker 1: set point. And that's something I realized when I was
Speaker 1: chronic dieting and I was living with a roommate and
Speaker 1: she was genetically thinner than me and leaner at me,
Speaker 1: and so we lived together for like maybe two and
Speaker 1: a half years, and it was to the point towards
Speaker 1: the end where we were training the exact same we
Speaker 1: were eating the exact same food, and I was definitely
Speaker 1: you know, skinny and lean because of my crazy diet.
Speaker 1: But she I always just thought myself, what, like, I
Speaker 1: don't understand I'm literally training the same, I'm eating the same,
Speaker 1: and I'm as lean. And it took me so long
Speaker 1: to realize that sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 1: Genetically we're just so different and It was so hard
Speaker 1: for me to get that, But then now I do.
Speaker 1: That has been such a release because I just no
Speaker 1: longer compare myself to anyone because I'm just like I
Speaker 1: just I can't because we're all so different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just doesn't help. It only leads to like pain, really.
Speaker 4: And so I want to finish off this interview.
Speaker 1: Well, like I just want to say so many amazing
Speaker 1: points in here, but I just want to finish off
Speaker 1: this interview. So your book is coming out so soon.
Speaker 1: I think when this episode goes live, it should be
Speaker 1: kind of out everywhere. So after we finish this question,
Speaker 1: I'll get you to tell the audience where they can
Speaker 1: get it and all that good stuff. But I got
Speaker 1: the first ten pages for free because I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1: And I saw that you give tools in the books,
Speaker 1: and I saw a tool said the belief Release, and
Speaker 1: I was if you can just give a bit of
Speaker 1: an insight and tell us about that.
Speaker 4: I was very interested.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I do a lot of talk later on
Speaker 2: in the book about our beliefs, and I've you know,
Speaker 2: I've been talking about it in this conversation too.
Speaker 3: But really, when you get down to it.
Speaker 2: We have all of these beliefs that are unhelpful and untrue,
Speaker 2: and without examining them, they're going.
Speaker 3: To rule us.
Speaker 2: They completely shade our entire perception of the world, and
Speaker 2: they actually also affect the way that our body responds
Speaker 2: to things on a very physical level.
Speaker 3: So I talk about that a lot.
Speaker 2: I talk about science behind them, but I also I
Speaker 2: talk a lot in the book about beginning to feel
Speaker 2: what we have been avoiding feeling.
Speaker 3: That's like what comes before the belief.
Speaker 2: Section, and how we actually to process a lot of
Speaker 2: stuck emotion, and that it's kind of similar to our way.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make this answer way too long, but
Speaker 2: it's kind of similar to our to our to the
Speaker 2: way that we approach our hunger. We do the same
Speaker 2: thing with our emotions. So there's a lot of unfelt
Speaker 2: emotion that wants to be felt, and it will help
Speaker 2: us get back into our body, help us be willing
Speaker 2: to feel what our body feels like and kind of
Speaker 2: inhabit our body and listen to our body. But we
Speaker 2: kind of do the same thing with the emotion attached
Speaker 2: to beliefs. So like painful or stressful beliefs are connected
Speaker 2: to unfelt emotion and unprocessed stuff from the past. And
Speaker 2: so this belief released tool is just like a very
Speaker 2: simple writing exercise that allows us to kind of like
Speaker 2: lean into all of the stuff that's kind of like
Speaker 2: bound up in these painful beliefs, like say, the belief is,
Speaker 2: you know, I should look different or I shouldn't be
Speaker 2: this hungry. There's like a lot of panic and pain
Speaker 2: in like all wrapped up in that that is really
Speaker 2: uncomfortable to feel.
Speaker 3: So I, in my whole healing process, I've really tried
Speaker 3: to figure out the easiest way for me to begin to,
Speaker 3: like in bite sized chunks, just begin to process all
Speaker 3: the pain and disco and suffering that you know that
Speaker 3: humans experience and then aren't equipped to feel.
Speaker 2: And then how can I kind of bottle that up
Speaker 2: in a way that is really really applicable and doable
Speaker 2: and just one foot in front of the other, put
Speaker 2: it in the book and give people little tools to
Speaker 2: help them begin to release the stuff. That's kind of
Speaker 2: like running the show. So that was a really roundabout
Speaker 2: way of answering your question. But it's hard because that's
Speaker 2: the last tool, and like all the tools before that
Speaker 2: kind of like build onto each other to create the
Speaker 2: last tool. It's hard to just kind of explain it
Speaker 2: without going into all those other things. But yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: excited because I started writing the book not knowing how
Speaker 2: I was going to simplify all of the things that
Speaker 2: I'd learned and applied to myself. And somehow along the way,
Speaker 2: I mean, I was writing it for three years, but
Speaker 2: it all became super clear and simple, which is really
Speaker 2: I mean, nothing about ending dieting is clear and simple,
Speaker 2: but that means that the tools should be as clear
Speaker 2: and simple as possible to help you work through all
Speaker 2: the things that aren't.
Speaker 3: So I'm excited. I'm really excited.
Speaker 4: That's amazing. I love that.
Speaker 1: So let's finish off, and I just want to thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming onto my podcast. I have
Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation so much, and I just want you
Speaker 1: to let the audience know where they can get your book,
Speaker 1: where they can find you, where they can follow you,
Speaker 1: and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2: My website is the Fucketdiet dot com, exactly what it
Speaker 2: sounds like on Instagram. I'm at the Fucker Diet and
Speaker 2: my book is coming and I'm assuming that your people
Speaker 2: everyone will be listening to this after it comes out.
Speaker 2: But my book is coming out March twenty first in
Speaker 2: the UK and Australia.
Speaker 3: It took me so long to figure.
Speaker 2: Out when it was going because it's so confusing because
Speaker 2: I think Australia's Amazon, Amazon Australia, I don't even know
Speaker 2: what it's going on, but the US version of the
Speaker 2: book before I had a UK book deal, so it's
Speaker 2: selling that. I was so confused. But basically you should
Speaker 2: be able by the time you're listening to this. You
Speaker 2: can buy the book in Australia on Amazon or book Topia.
Speaker 2: There's an audiobook and there's a kindle so you can
Speaker 2: read it and consume it however you want. And if
Speaker 2: you're listening in any other countries it'll be out by
Speaker 2: then too well. In the US and Canada it'll be
Speaker 2: out March twenty sixth, and you can go to the
Speaker 2: fucka Dye dot com slash book to find lots of links.
Speaker 2: And you can also do what you did Georgia and
Speaker 2: download the first ten pages and read it if you're like,
Speaker 2: not quite sure, if you're not sure if you're going
Speaker 2: to like my writing style or whatever, you can read
Speaker 2: the beginning. But yeah, that's how to find me and
Speaker 2: that's how to find the book. Oh the other frustrating
Speaker 2: thing is that right now, if you go to Amazon
Speaker 2: in Australia, if you type in the title of the
Speaker 2: book the fuckut Die, it doesn't come up because of
Speaker 2: the cur they have to like.
Speaker 3: Fix the whatever.
Speaker 2: So if that happened, hopefully that'll be all fixed by
Speaker 2: the time anyone's listening to this.
Speaker 3: But you can just search my name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will link all this in our show notes guys.
Speaker 4: Sojo yay.
Speaker 3: Wonderful. Yeah, So that's it. The Fucking Die dot Com.
Speaker 1: You so much. It has been an absolute pleasure to
Speaker 1: have you on the show.
Speaker 3: It was so fun. Thank you so much for reaching
Speaker 3: out and for chatting with me. I've loved it.
Speaker 4: No problem at all. Okay, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker 1: Thanks Caroline, Thank you so much for listening in. If
Speaker 1: you like this episode, make sure you subscribe to the
Speaker 1: Rise and Cocer podcast so you don't miss the next one. Also,
Speaker 1: if you found this podcast valuable, it would mean the
Speaker 1: absolute world to me if you.
Speaker 4: Wrote the podcast a review.
Speaker 1: Plus, if you know someone who would benefit from listening
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Speaker 3: It with them.
Speaker 1: If you want to go beyond this, so check out
Speaker 1: our official Instagram at Rise Andconquer dot podcast or my
Speaker 1: personal Instagram.
Speaker 4: At Georgie Stevenson.
Speaker 1: I hope you have an amazing day or night whenever
Speaker 1: you are listening in Bye for now, and I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you soon