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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Georgie Stevenson. I am a lawyer, ten health coach,

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Speaker 1: social media influencer, wife and dog mum. On the Rise

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Speaker 1: and Conquer Podcast, we dive deep into all things mindset, habits, career, health,

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Speaker 1: relationships and more. This is a podcast for women who

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Speaker 1: want to rise up to be the best version of themselves,

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Speaker 1: who have big dreams in who are willing to put

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Speaker 1: in the work to get there. I want to bring

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Speaker 1: you the tools and actionable steps to feel confident in yourself,

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Speaker 1: inspired to take bold action, and motivated to conquer your goals.

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Speaker 1: Are you with me, girl friends, Let's rise and conquer. Hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to the Rise and Conquer Podcast. Today,

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Speaker 1: I have a very special guest for you, and her

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Speaker 1: name is Caroline Dona. Caroline writes funny self help for

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Speaker 1: chronic dietis and is the author of the book The

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Speaker 1: Fucket Diet. Before she became a full time writer and

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Speaker 1: mindfulness coach, she spent years as a performer trying really

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Speaker 1: hard to fit in a tiny slash beautiful category. She

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Speaker 1: also believed she was a food addict, and so she

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Speaker 1: dieted like it was her job and she hoped it

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Speaker 1: would help her meet her destiny, but all it did

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Speaker 1: was crush her soul and hurt her body. Now, she

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Speaker 1: runs a business called The Fucket Diet and writes about

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Speaker 1: our relationship to food and weight. She runs online workshops

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Speaker 1: and courses and shares cutting edge science on weight, health

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Speaker 1: and metabolism. She believes that anyone can heal from food

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Speaker 1: obsession and that the cure lies in the last place

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Speaker 1: we thought, eating and trusting our bodies. Today, we chat

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Speaker 1: about the science behind why diets don't work, how to

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Speaker 1: rebuild your relationship with food, how to conquer binge eating,

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Speaker 1: and the health of every size movement. When we recorded

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Speaker 1: this interview, it was actually before Caroline's book went live,

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Speaker 1: like it was available, and since then it is now

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Speaker 1: available and I bought it myself and I read it

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Speaker 1: in like a week. Well, I listened to it. I

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Speaker 1: bought the audio book, and guys, it is one of

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Speaker 1: the best self help diet sort of books that I

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Speaker 1: have ever read and consumed, and I just cannot recommend

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Speaker 1: it enough. If you struggle with a relationship to food

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Speaker 1: and your body and dieting and all that stuff. Caroline

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Speaker 1: is so funny and she breaks it down in a

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Speaker 1: really good way. But it's also very science based, so

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Speaker 1: I could not recommend it enough. Okay, now let's get

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Speaker 1: into the interview. Hi Caroline, how are you today?

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Speaker 2: Good?

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Speaker 3: How are you Georgia?

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Speaker 1: I'm really good. Thank you, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: coming on the show.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to get into it.

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Speaker 2: It's always fun to talk to people who get it

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Speaker 2: and who I'm not convincing.

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Speaker 1: So let's get straight into it. Before we get into

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Speaker 1: all the goodness. As this is the Rise in Conka podcast,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you what is one thing, big

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Speaker 1: or small that you are rising up and conquering this week.

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Speaker 3: This is going to sound a little counterintuitive, but for me,

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Speaker 3: if I do not go to sleep at a good hour,

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Speaker 3: for me, if I mess up that night sleep schedule,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's like nighted not you know, no pun intended,

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Speaker 3: but it is.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a totally different person if I get a

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Speaker 2: good eight hour hours of sleep compared to you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't do well.

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Speaker 3: I'm much less than that. I'm not my kindest best self.

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Speaker 2: So I am rising and conquering good sleep habits and

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Speaker 2: actually getting in bed at a reasonable hour and sleeping

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Speaker 2: rising and conquering sleep so I can rise and conquer

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Speaker 2: other things.

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 1: It's so simple but so important. Do you have like

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Speaker 1: a nighttime routine which helps you get to sleep or.

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Speaker 2: I don't really, I'm not good with the phone. I'm

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Speaker 2: still really I'm not good with the phone.

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Speaker 3: But if I if it's a weak.

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Speaker 2: Night and I am in bed by ten forty five,

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Speaker 2: like that's my with all my friends, I'm like.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, it's my curfew.

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Speaker 2: I have to turn off my phone now and I

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Speaker 2: don't have to fall asleep right then. But if I

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Speaker 2: just need to like start the because I can't just

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Speaker 2: hit the pillow and fall asleep, I need like to

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Speaker 2: lie there for a little bit and decompress.

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Speaker 3: So I just have my my curfew. And I don't.

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Speaker 2: Always, you know, I don't always do it, but I

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Speaker 2: really do feel it. So I'm like, okay, guys, sorry, friends,

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Speaker 2: I need my curfew again. No texting ten forty five.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 4: I love that you need to have that in place,

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Speaker 4: So that's good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes a huge difference, huge difference.

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Speaker 4: So let's get into it.

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Speaker 1: So as a big advocator for like ditching diet culture

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Speaker 1: and getting back in tune with your body and all

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. I'm probably one of your biggest fans,

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Speaker 1: and I adore your message, and so I want you

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Speaker 1: to tell the listeners what is the fucket diet?

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Speaker 4: And how did it come about?

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Speaker 3: So the fucking diet is exactly what it sounds like.

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Speaker 2: It is an anti diet, though some people are confused and.

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Speaker 3: They think that.

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, is the fucking diet like when you

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Speaker 2: mess up your diet and then you're like fuck it. It's like,

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Speaker 2: well that works because it still brings you know, like

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Speaker 2: people who feel that way still I think I'm talking

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Speaker 2: to them. But my fuck it mentality came after ten

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Speaker 2: years of chronic dieting. Essentially, I was I thought I

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Speaker 2: was a food addict. I thought I was obsessed with food.

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Speaker 2: I thought that that was my problem, and I was

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Speaker 2: dieting trying to get that under control and trying to

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Speaker 2: heal my food addiction.

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Speaker 3: So many diet it's so weird.

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Speaker 2: So many diets have this this weird promise that if

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Speaker 2: you stick to the diet perfectly, it'll heal your cravings.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever heard that it's like like long enough, yes,

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Speaker 2: one per exactly if you do it long enough, and

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Speaker 2: if you do it like with some things, like with

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Speaker 2: when I was a raw vegan, it was all about

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Speaker 2: like if you do if you're one hundred percent raw vegan,

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Speaker 2: you will heal everything and you won't crave.

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Speaker 3: Cooked food together. It was so like such a cult.

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Speaker 3: It was so weird.

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Speaker 2: But it's that sort of the cultural dialogue around our

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Speaker 2: hunger and our cravings and food and our bodies. We

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Speaker 2: believe that there is something wrong with us, and if

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Speaker 2: we don't constantly control it, then we're going to spin

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Speaker 2: out of control. And it makes sense too, because that

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Speaker 2: is what we experience. For anyone who's listening who has

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Speaker 2: gone on many diets, you begin to feel more and

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Speaker 2: more and more out of control with food. And for me,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't put it together for the longest time, and

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Speaker 2: so many of us can't because the whole culture is

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Speaker 2: confused about it. But I believed I am a food addict.

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Speaker 2: Look at how much I'm binging, Look at how much

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Speaker 2: I could eat. I'm so hungry all the time. What

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Speaker 2: is wrong with me?

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Speaker 3: I need to diet harder, I need to diet better.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like this vicious cycle.

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Speaker 2: It is, it is, and yet and we don't realize

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Speaker 2: that we're perpetuating it with what we think is the cure,

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Speaker 2: and it's just making everything worse and worse. And so

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Speaker 2: when we say, like, you know, I really have no

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Speaker 2: control of the food I have to diet. That's what

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Speaker 2: we've experienced, we really think that that's true. And it

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Speaker 2: seems so scary to let ourselves go there because we're

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Speaker 2: afraid that we'll never come back from it. But the

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Speaker 2: fuck a diet for me was after ten years of

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Speaker 2: chronic dieting, and then even interspersed in there, I thought

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Speaker 2: that I was intuitive eating At times, I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know what, I'm just going to listen to my

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Speaker 2: body really really really really well and.

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Speaker 3: Never eat too much.

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Speaker 2: And like it was this kind of like diet obsessive

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Speaker 2: version of intuitive eating. I turned it into a diet.

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Speaker 2: I thought that the only reason that anyone would ever

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Speaker 2: write a book about eating was for the purpose of

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Speaker 2: eating less. So even if the book was give you know,

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Speaker 2: the book does give good advice, I couldn't hear it.

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Speaker 3: I just couldn't.

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Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people do a similar

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Speaker 2: thing where they're like, Okay, this is a great idea.

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Speaker 2: I'll eat intuitively and make sure I never eat too

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Speaker 2: much and stay really skinny. And that's still a diet.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're still kind of in that weird restricted.

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Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it's so funny you

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Speaker 1: say that, because, like I was telling you before, I

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Speaker 1: have an ebook that is all about sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: ditching diet culture intuitive eating. And it's so funny because

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Speaker 1: one of the most sast questions I get with it

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Speaker 1: is is okay, cool, so I can get this a book,

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Speaker 1: I can start intuitive eating And how can I intuitive

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Speaker 1: eat and lose weight?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And you're missing the point here, I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: But it's like the logical next step, yeah for diet ors.

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Speaker 2: So like, okay, I understand that dieting isn't helping me.

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Speaker 2: I understand these rules are kind of messing up my

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Speaker 2: own hunger fullness. So how can I become perfect at

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Speaker 2: hunger and fullness and you know, control my weight? And really,

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Speaker 2: there are so many myths about health and weight and

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Speaker 2: food and calories and our appetites and trusting our appetite

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Speaker 2: and this is really what the fucket diet became because

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Speaker 2: my moment of fuck it, I am insane around food,

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Speaker 2: I am miserable.

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Speaker 3: I only think about food. I'm starving all of the time.

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Speaker 2: I just binged on disgusting paleo gross like I'm calling

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Speaker 2: them cupcakes but they taste like chalk, Like what.

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Speaker 3: Am I doing? I've been doing this for ten years.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that kind of flipped it for me

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Speaker 2: is I was trying to be paleo at the time.

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Speaker 2: And this is over seven years ago at this point,

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Speaker 2: but it was at the end of my like ten

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Speaker 2: year long madness with food, going back and forth and dieting,

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Speaker 2: the binging to dieting and bingeting, thinking I was intuitive

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Speaker 2: eating and going.

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Speaker 3: On another diet.

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Speaker 2: I started reading people reading from people in the paleo

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Speaker 2: community or even kind of like the ex paleo community,

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Speaker 2: saying that going low carb messed up their hormones and

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Speaker 2: messed up their metabolism. And I just remember that was

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Speaker 2: a huge light bulb moment for me that I'd never

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Speaker 2: ever ever considered before that my dieting was doing the

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Speaker 2: exact opposite of what I thought it was doing and

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Speaker 2: what I was trying to do, you know, I was

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Speaker 2: trying to be healthy and that was the beginning for me.

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Speaker 2: And then there was my big my birthday binge on

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Speaker 2: like disgusting paleo cupcakes that I made for myself, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't put any sugar in the recipe because I

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Speaker 2: was going to make them even quote unquote healthier, and

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Speaker 2: I just like I had like a moment, like a

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Speaker 2: really I call it an epiphany because it was that intense,

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Speaker 2: but I just realized that I was going to keep

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Speaker 2: doing this forever unless I deliberately stepped out of the madness.

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Speaker 3: I was. Also I went to.

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Speaker 2: School for a musical theater, so that was sort of

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Speaker 2: my way of being over fixated on being thin and

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Speaker 2: looking a certain way and feeling like it was really

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Speaker 2: important for my career and my destiny or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And so I.

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Speaker 2: Deliberately decided to step away from that, at least for

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Speaker 2: a time, you know, back then, because I realized in

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Speaker 2: that moment that what I didn't realize when I tried

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Speaker 2: to be an intuitive eater the first time. I realized

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Speaker 2: that my obsession with being thin and controlling my weight

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Speaker 2: was the core of the problem. And I knew that

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Speaker 2: I had to, like emotionally and physically let that go

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Speaker 2: trust my body and that that was the only way

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Speaker 2: that I was going to get to a place where

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Speaker 2: I I truly let myself eat and really listen.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think we have this like obsession with

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Speaker 1: trying to fit into one tiny little category of beauty

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Speaker 1: and a way we should look. Like thinking about it,

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Speaker 1: it just makes me so annoyed and so crazy. But

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Speaker 1: it's so true that we all think we should be

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Speaker 1: the certain size and look this certain way. It's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it's crazy, but I understand why it's happening because

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Speaker 2: of all of this misinformation. Essentially, like we most of

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Speaker 2: us grow up believing that thin is healthy, the thinner

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Speaker 2: the better, the thinner healthier, and that weight or fatness

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Speaker 2: or being in a bigger body is inherently unhealthy, inherently

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Speaker 2: the cause of the person, like the person's fault, and

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Speaker 2: inherently ugly. That's what we are top, you know. And

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Speaker 2: the more we see that reinforce, the more we believe it.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the health misinformation is really heartbreaking because

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Speaker 2: the study and this is something this is another huge

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Speaker 2: thing that opened up my eyes and I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, this this is really helpful, Like this

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Speaker 2: is really really helpful to even further justify why obsessing

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Speaker 2: over being thin is not only like messed up in

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Speaker 2: an emotional way, in a feminist way, but in an.

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Speaker 3: Actual health way. That body diversity is real, Like it

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Speaker 3: really is real.

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Speaker 2: And I follow this account now on Instagram called Historical

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Speaker 2: Fat People.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what it's called.

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Speaker 2: And it's just pictures of pictures and paintings of fat people,

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Speaker 2: like through time of them, of people being like, look,

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Speaker 2: we're talking about this as if it's this new thing

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Speaker 2: caused by like modern food. Fat people have always existed,

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Speaker 2: always existed. And the fascinating thing is that in the past,

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Speaker 2: the fatter people were believed to be healthier, which is

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Speaker 2: so opposite of what we think now.

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Speaker 4: Like completely flipped now completely.

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Speaker 3: Flipped, I mean I think, I mean it's healthier.

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Speaker 2: And they survived famines, you know, they were like the

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Speaker 2: sturdier stock, you know, and the you know, the people

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Speaker 2: who were really thin and couldn't keep on weight, they

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Speaker 2: were the ones that died in the famine. So and

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Speaker 2: it's not just that, it's that there are scientists who

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Speaker 2: are breaking down these studies and saying, look, they're not

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Speaker 2: accounting for this and that, and they're not talking about

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Speaker 2: the weight regain. They're not talking about about how a

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Speaker 2: year and two years down the line, everyone has gained

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Speaker 2: all the weight back and more and their health is

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Speaker 2: worse than it was before they even started. So focusing

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Speaker 2: on how diets quote unquote work and how it improves

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Speaker 2: your health in the super short term, it's really not

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Speaker 2: looking at the big picture and at how you can

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Speaker 2: improve your health without losing weight. I mean, not everybody can,

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Speaker 2: and the focus on weight is actually detrimental to our

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Speaker 2: health long term. And the people who focus on sustainable life,

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Speaker 2: affirming habits, intuitive eating, joyful movement that those people and

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Speaker 2: there have been studies that have done this, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to recommend some books. I mean, it's in my

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Speaker 2: book too, but there are some really great books that

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Speaker 2: break down the science behind this. That women in larger

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Speaker 2: bodies who change their habits over time, all of their

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Speaker 2: health markers can improve even if their body does doesn't

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Speaker 2: lose weight. And it's just this fascinating, like turning everything

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Speaker 2: we believe about health and weight on its head and

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Speaker 2: understanding that, I mean, the amount of fatter people who

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Speaker 2: read my blog and who have followed me for a

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Speaker 2: while who've reached out and said, I, you know, have

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Speaker 2: been living on eight hundred calories a day for like

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Speaker 2: four years and I haven't lost weight, and my health

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Speaker 2: is horrible, and my doctors keep telling me that it's

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Speaker 2: because I'm fat, not because I am not eating any food.

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Speaker 2: And it's just like it's so heartbreaking because it's it's

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Speaker 2: gone so far that that's what, you know, our medical

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Speaker 2: community believes. That's it's really really fascinating and heartbreaking bias

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Speaker 2: towards towards weight and fatness. So all of this is

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Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to take in in the beginning.

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Speaker 2: It's so opposite of what we have always believed and

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Speaker 2: always been told. And but it's really I think important

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Speaker 2: to begin to talk about this and educate people on this,

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Speaker 2: not only for ourselves but also for the way that

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Speaker 2: we view other people and the way you know, I

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Speaker 2: did it.

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Speaker 3: I used to believe that at.

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Speaker 2: Least I was doing some better than them, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: I'm doing a terrible job of my diet. I am

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Speaker 2: a glutton, I am obsessed with food, but at least

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Speaker 2: I'm able to get it back under control. Meanwhile, it's

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Speaker 2: just lucky I've yo yoed a lot, but I've always

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Speaker 2: yo yoed in a lower weight range, you know, because

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Speaker 2: that's just with my genetics. But yeah, it's crazy misinformation.

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Speaker 2: I'm being really really like, I actually you sent me

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Speaker 2: some awesome questions and I like wrote it everything, and.

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Speaker 3: I am realizing that I didn't write it. I'm not

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Speaker 3: reading from it at all. I'm like going all over

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Speaker 3: the place right now.

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Speaker 1: But I love that question that and I couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 1: That's something that I had to do and sort of

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Speaker 1: my process is obviously I live a lot on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: but just following other accounts of different body sizes. Like

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Speaker 1: to me before that, all I followed was one type

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Speaker 1: of girl who was usually white, who was usually.

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Speaker 4: Usually blonde, because I'm blonde.

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Speaker 1: And for me it was so like, that's so simple

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Speaker 1: to just follow people with other body types. But for me,

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Speaker 1: I just never did it. So in my head, like

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Speaker 1: you said, like I just wasn't aware. And so that

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Speaker 1: even though that's quite small, that was like a big

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Speaker 1: step and something that I really encourage other people to

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Speaker 1: do as well, just so you realize that even though

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Speaker 1: in the media and society and all that sort of thing,

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Speaker 1: I know, we kind of see one sort of body

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Speaker 1: type that that's not actually correct. If that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: You know, it confuses us because then we're just comparing

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Speaker 2: ourselves to that one tiny subset of people.

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Speaker 4: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: It's really healing to do what you did and do

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Speaker 2: what you're telling other people to do, is to follow

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Speaker 2: a diverse range of different people.

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Speaker 3: It's so healing, it really really is.

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Speaker 1: And even for me, Like, one of the big things

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Speaker 1: I realize is all I used to follow on every

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Speaker 1: social media that I had was just like it was

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Speaker 1: always just about fitness and health. Whereas now I follow,

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Speaker 1: and of course I still do that and make sure

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Speaker 1: the accounts make me feel good and all that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff, but I follow also just a wide range

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Speaker 1: of people doing other stuff, because I feel like you

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Speaker 1: can get in this rut where you think everyone's dieting

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Speaker 1: and everyone's focusing this, and like it's almost like you're

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Speaker 1: in this little tunnel, and then you realize that, no,

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Speaker 1: the world doesn't revolve around how you look, what diet

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Speaker 1: you're on, and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but you have to do deliberate work to surround

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Speaker 2: yourself in an anti diet bubble because it also, you know,

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Speaker 2: it still is everywhere. It is on Instagram that you know,

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Speaker 2: diet culture and being obsessed with looks and weight, but

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Speaker 2: it's also everywhere. I mean, it's our you know, our

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Speaker 2: families talk that way, our friends talk that way, random

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Speaker 2: people in the cafe talk that way.

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Speaker 3: And I do think.

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Speaker 2: That it's beginning to change in the media a little

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Speaker 2: tiny bit, and I think that that's great, and I

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Speaker 2: think that there's obviously farther to go, but but it's

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Speaker 2: still kind of like, you know, diet culture still rules

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Speaker 2: the day.

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Speaker 1: So I think also, like you said, a kind of

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Speaker 1: shift I'm noticing is just people being aware, which I

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Speaker 1: kind of feel like is the first step. Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like there's just so many people who aren't even

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Speaker 1: aware what diet culture is sort of thing like that,

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Speaker 1: which is crazy, But it's great that people like we're

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Speaker 1: putting out this message and then people start thinking about

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Speaker 1: about this sort of thing and they can start to

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Speaker 1: sort of slowly shift and change the ways and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. But I wanted to switch gears and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about something because this is

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Speaker 1: something I figured out from myself, from my own behavior,

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Speaker 1: and I just find it so interesting and it's just

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Speaker 1: so backwards. But I wanted you to explain to the audience,

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Speaker 1: like how dieteen actually makes us more fixated on food.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's so fascinating. Again, it's this like complete one

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Speaker 2: eedy right. So it's very chemical, actually restricting our food

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Speaker 2: even just a little bit, even just restricting like a

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Speaker 2: teeny bit less than what we need to run our

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Speaker 2: whole body. It raises our grellin, which is the hunger hormone,

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Speaker 2: and it also raises our stress hormones to keep us going,

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Speaker 2: you know, because we don't actually have enough fuel.

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Speaker 3: We're kind of running on stress hormones.

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Speaker 2: But the hunger hormone grellin raise lowers our metabolism and

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Speaker 2: actually wires our brains to constantly think about food. And

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Speaker 2: it actually so our hunger hormone is high, which means

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Speaker 2: that we're hungrier and our brain is actually fixating on food.

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Speaker 2: And so then we think, oh my god, what's wrong

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Speaker 2: with me? I have all these cravings like I need

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Speaker 2: to just you know, distract myself or whatever. But it's

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Speaker 2: really genuinely just the body saying, Okay, you're not eating enough.

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Speaker 3: You need to eat a lot of food.

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Speaker 2: With the food and it also makes food taste better,

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Speaker 2: so it's it directly leads to a binge. So what

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Speaker 2: we usually do when we're dieting is we're obsessing over

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Speaker 2: food or we're really really hungry, we're fantasizing over food.

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Speaker 2: But then we shut it down. We try to diet harder,

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Speaker 2: we do whatever we can to distract ourselves or to

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Speaker 2: fill up on like filler food. Yeah yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: eventually you know we're we're suppressing the binge because we

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Speaker 2: think that the binge is the enemy, but really the

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Speaker 2: binge is just the please eat a lot of food

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Speaker 2: so we can get back to normal, and then we'll

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Speaker 2: get back to normal soon. But we never let that happen,

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Speaker 2: and so it gets worse and worse and worse, and

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Speaker 2: then actually huge binge and then put ourselves back on

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Speaker 2: the diet and it just gets worse. But it's actually

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Speaker 2: very very chemical.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love this because it just makes so much

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Speaker 1: sense because looking back, when I was constantly dieting, all

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Speaker 1: I could think about was food. It was so much

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Speaker 1: like what I'm gonna have, Like at breakfast time, I

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Speaker 1: might actually be thinking about what I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: for morning tea, and then at morning tea. I'd be like,

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Speaker 1: I have the lunch, and my world was revolving around food,

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Speaker 1: and I just remember it being such a struggle to

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Speaker 1: not think about food and not feel hungry and not

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Speaker 1: just constantly crave things.

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Speaker 4: And now that.

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Speaker 1: I intuitively eat, know, don't diet or anything like that. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: I eat when I'm hungry, and I love foods. I

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Speaker 1: love the taste of foods. It's just not a thought

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Speaker 1: that controls my life anymore, and doesn't factly. And I

435
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Speaker 1: used to be so troubled by this because I used

436
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Speaker 1: to think, yeah, like what is wrong with me? And

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Speaker 1: like it was such a struggle, And now I just

438
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: find it so effortless to not because effortless.

439
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: That's such a great way of describing it. Mmmmmmm, that

440
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: it really can be effortless.

441
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love that. Thank you for explaining that.

442
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: I also wanted to ask you, so obviously you said

443
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: you were a chronic diet if you could tell your

444
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: previous self, like when you were going through those stages,

445
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: just like one thing that you wish you knew, just

446
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: so maybe you know, you could get on this new

447
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: way of living faster, and that sort of thing, like

448
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: what would it be.

449
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: I think it would be right along the lines of

450
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: what we were just talking about. I think the thing

451
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 2: that really kept me stuck was I believed that I

452
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 2: was like a complete monster around food, and.

453
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 3: That that was just the way that I was wired.

454
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 3: I am addicted to food.

455
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 2: I just believed that because that's what I that's what

456
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: I seem to experience. I couldn't stop thinking about food

457
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 2: and binging on food. So I would really just want

458
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: to tell myself to just explain really quickly, it is

459
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: not you. It is the dieting. This is a vicious cycle.

460
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: Eating more is actually the thing that's going to get

461
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: you out.

462
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 3: Of this cycle.

463
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: It's so simple, it's so simple, and now you know

464
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: on the other side, and I'm sure you feel this

465
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: way too, it's so obvious, like it's it's simple survival.

466
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 3: But in the thick of.

467
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 2: It and hearing all of this, you know, diet drama

468
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: from everyone else and everyone else talking about their diets

469
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: and being good and whatever, it feels like this war.

470
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: If it feels like you're completely fighting your own hunger,

471
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: and that it's a noble.

472
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: Cause, you know, druggle, constant struggle. Yeah, one hundred percent Okay,

473
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, So let's move on and let's

474
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: talk about the negative side effects and miss information and

475
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: overall ugly side of diet culture. So tell us, like,

476
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: what some ways that a diet can fuck up your body?

477
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: As you would say.

478
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it really does well. First, what it does.

479
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 2: Is it slows down your body. It slows down your

480
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: metabolism to save your life. I mean, the purpose is

481
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 2: to make it so you're able. You're actually sacrificing other

482
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: parts of your body to focus.

483
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: On staying alive.

484
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 2: And that's why you're fixated on food. Your metabolism is lower,

485
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: your heart rates lower, and you hold on to weight

486
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: faster in this state too, which is the other thing

487
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 2: that makes us believe that we need the diet harder

488
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: because we believe that we're like that everything's just going

489
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: to spin out of control. Oh no, I'm gaining weight

490
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: so quickly. But it's the and you know, we demonize

491
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: gaining weight. We think it's this horrible, unhealthy thing, but

492
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: it's actually the healthiest thing that your body can do

493
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: in that state because it's trying to protect you. It's

494
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: afraid that you're going to keep eating less and less

495
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 2: and less and that this famine is going to continue

496
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: and it's just trying to keep you alive.

497
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,239
Speaker 3: But that actually sacrifices other parts of you. So, like

498
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: I said before, you.

499
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: Have to run on stress hormones. You have to run

500
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: on adrenaline and cortisol, which short term, you know, is okay,

501
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: but long term is really really depleting to your adrenals,

502
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 2: your adrenal glands, and also leads to inflammation. Long term,

503
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: you know, everyone's talking about stress inflammation. Stress really does

504
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: cause and exacerbate so many health problems.

505
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: So it's this heartbreaking.

506
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: Thing again because we think we're being so responsible with

507
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: our dieting and we're actually making things worse in the

508
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 2: long run. And it's also the stress from us. That's

509
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: another reason why it can feel kind of euphoric in

510
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: the beginning, because we're literally running on adrenaline, you know,

511
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: because we're not eating enough food or we're not eating

512
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 2: enough carbs, and so it's kind of it's almost like,

513
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: if you think about it in like a famine sense,

514
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: it's like your body's giving you the will to live

515
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: and survive and find some food, but then we don't

516
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: even let it happen.

517
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 4: You know, oh god, yes, I know. I just want

518
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 4: to quickly butt in there.

519
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: And I want to add to that because my sort

520
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: of tipping point with the whole getting over my chronic

521
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 1: dieting was I started getting all these health issues. So

522
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: I started getting adult acne. I was so exhausted all

523
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: the time, I had really bad mood swings. I lost

524
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: my period, and so I went to like doctors and

525
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: a natural path and you know, I thought there was

526
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: this underlying issue. I must have an immune disease.

527
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 4: Or something like that.

528
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: And the thing is, as soon as I just started

529
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: eating more and exercising less, literally all my health issues disappeared.

530
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, it's amazing.

531
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: And it's obviously it took time and I had to

532
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: do a lot with my stress and that sort of thing,

533
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: but it's so simple. But like you said, like it's

534
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: such a simple act of honor. I'm just dieting. But

535
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: the issues that can happen because of it, I really

536
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: like obviously life threatening. But yeah, it's hard because it

537
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: is it's like this cycle and you don't really understand

538
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: the whole thing's confusing, and yeah, but it is crazy,

539
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: the whole thing.

540
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was the last thing I was going

541
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: to say is that hormones. And again, I mean that's

542
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: like stress hormones, and then it messes up our fertility

543
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: hormones and our thyroid hormones, which leads to another, like

544
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: a million other health problems. It's literally your body breaking

545
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: down to keep you alive. And just like what you said,

546
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I last my period two and yet I

547
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: thought that I I was going to heal my hormones

548
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 2: by eating perfectly.

549
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 3: You know what I mean. So it's this weird ome.

550
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: Like again, it's this weird cycle where like the whole

551
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 2: our whole culture is saying you will be healthier if

552
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: you can just diet better, when that, for so many

553
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: of us is actually the biggest problem.

554
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840
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579
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580
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: It's so funny because I'm like relaying all this information

581
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh, it's it's so crazy because

582
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: when you're inside the bubble. Though you can't understand this,

583
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: it just gets through. So previously I used to really

584
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: have strong beliefs, like you know, there was good food

585
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: and there was bad food, and diets weren't actually diets.

586
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: It's just like a healthy way of living. I guess

587
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: I had a lot of do you know about like

588
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: authorexia sort of tendencies?

589
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was me. I was completely orthoraxic. Yeah, yeah.

590
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think it's this weird sort

591
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: of category where obviously I wasn't underweight enough to go

592
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: to hospital or the usual signs of an eating disorder,

593
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: but then I had all these like disordered patterns and behaviors.

594
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 4: But also it was hard because I was.

595
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: On social media and a lot of these I'm putting

596
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: air quotes like healthy habits were encouraged and that sort

597
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: of thing. So it's like this weird sort of like

598
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: limbo stage where you're obviously trying to be healthy and

599
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: trying to do the best for your body, but that's

600
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: not always the best thing, right. Can you sort of

601
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: shed some lots sorry on you know, some lives. We're

602
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 1: told about dieting and how do we begin to change

603
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: our mindset and sort of stop micrometing our diet and

604
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: wait and these like healthy habits.

605
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: I experienced the exact same thing.

606
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: I was able to sort of hide my own disordered

607
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: eating from myself by believing that I was just a

608
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,959
Speaker 2: health not I was just a health enthusiast.

609
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: Just focus on health. So I have.

610
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: Often compared diets to cults, and I know that that

611
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: sounds a little bit extreme though, but it's the mentality.

612
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: It's the mentality around it. And I understand we're all human,

613
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: we're we're lost, we're searching for, you know, feeling good

614
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 2: and feeling responsible and having someone tell us what we're

615
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 2: supposed to do, and we want to do our best,

616
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: we want to take care of ourselves, but we get

617
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 2: into this mentality of my way is right. I have

618
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: found like the path, you know, and that way, this

619
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: other diet or these other people who don't understand, you know,

620
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 2: the principles of my diet.

621
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 3: They you know, they're I need to convert them or whatever.

622
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: It's very but you know, it's very easy to kind

623
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: of have to go all in because it becomes so

624
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: all consuming and it becomes so difficult to do, and

625
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: people really bond over it.

626
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: The other interesting thing is, like you talked about good

627
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 3: foods and bad foods, but.

628
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: If you look at all the different kinds of diets,

629
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 2: like every all the different diets have different hierarchy of food,

630
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: like all the good foods, you know, all foods at.

631
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: Some point are in the bad food category, you know.

632
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: So it really does become about getting out of that

633
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: cultish mindset where you're allowing other people to tell you

634
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: what is good for your body, because they're all going

635
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: to tell you something different, you know, and it's only

636
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 2: us buying in that makes it that much more intense.

637
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: But again, another one of the big like myths and lies,

638
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 2: and this is the one that kind of goes through

639
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: all the diets, is back to the belief that we

640
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: can completely that weight is just a matter of calories

641
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: and versus calories out which we just talked about how

642
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 2: it lowers your metabolism.

643
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: So it doesn't really work that way at all. We're

644
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 3: actually wired to.

645
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: Keep on weight when we're not eating as much. But

646
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: I think unlearning, like really doing the research to like

647
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: learn the opposite thing about the food and about this

648
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: about calories. It really is a lot of unlearning because

649
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: it's all the beliefs, it's all of the you know,

650
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: they become subconscious beliefs that we just take as fact.

651
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: And so there has to be a deliberate unlearning about

652
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: all these things that have been keeping us stuck.

653
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 4: I love that.

654
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: So I guess my sort of question though, is, like

655
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: you said, unlearning doing your own research. But I guess

656
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: when you're in this state where you don't want diets

657
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: and food to consume you. I sort of struggled with

658
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: this because I was like, you know, I don't want

659
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: to hear about the paleodet and I don't want to

660
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: hear about like all this sort of stuff. But I almost,

661
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: like you said, needed to do the research to be like, no,

662
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 1: I don't need to listen to these people.

663
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 4: And that thing.

664
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: Do you suggest anything like just completely getting away from

665
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: I guess it's super hard, but diet culture or like

666
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: any sort of tips in that direction.

667
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it really is impossible to get away from diculture.

668
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: And you can try, and you can talk to the

669
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 2: people in your life and explain what you're learning, what

670
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 2: you're doing, and why you don't want to talk about

671
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: it anymore, and you can, you know, surround your social

672
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: media with things that are positive. But it is impossible.

673
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 2: I really think it's impossible to completely avoid. And that

674
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: is what makes this so so so hard, because especially

675
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: for people who are kind of teetering on the edge

676
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: and want to do it but are so petrified, it's

677
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: really hard to avoid.

678
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 3: Have you ever read the book Health at Every Size

679
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 3: or Body Respect? By chance? No?

680
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: I've got Body Respect on my list though, because I

681
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: heard you talking about it on your podcast, But yeah,

682
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: do you recommend those? Actually, thinking back, that was a

683
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: big sort of thing, and my recovery was reading a

684
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: lot of books. I can't remember the names, but I

685
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: read a lot of kind of like anti diet books. Yes, yes,

686
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 1: do you recommend those books?

687
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 3: I recommend them so much.

688
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: And really, because we cannot avoid diet culture. You cannot

689
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: avoid the people at your work or your family or

690
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: you know, on television.

691
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: It's constant.

692
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: So I think we kind of have to combat that

693
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: by by kind of consuming as much anti diet culture

694
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: and weight positive and weight neutral content that we possibly can.

695
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: And again, one of the I think one of the

696
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: biggest and most important pieces. And there are men I

697
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: I could say that about a lot of things, but

698
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: is learning about the science, the science around weight and

699
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: health and food and eating that we have been so

700
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: confused about that we have taken as fact that that

701
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: we have all of these beliefs about and really reading

702
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: these facts from scientists who are saying, no, no, no, no, no,

703
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: we have it wrong. I promise you can trust your body.

704
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: I promise that your body is genuinely trying to take

705
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: care of you. The more we can read those books

706
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 2: and Health at Every size and by respect are really

707
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: really really awesome books in that category, and I really

708
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 2: highly recommend them.

709
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 3: I mean, for me, that was the way that I

710
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: did it.

711
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 2: I was like non stop reading about it for probably

712
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: like two or three years straight.

713
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: Honestly.

714
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: I love that actually, And I just wanted to butt

715
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: in and say that if you go to Caroline's website,

716
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: the fuck It Diet website, she does have a tab

717
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: full of resources and scientif face research and all that

718
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: sort of stuff, So definitely have a look there if

719
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: you want to start unlearning diet culture and all.

720
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 4: That sort of thing.

721
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: Yes, So I want to shift gears. I know we

722
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: sort of touched on this and me and you kind

723
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: of agree that it's very simple and you just need.

724
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 4: To eat more food.

725
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: But I do want to touch on binging again because

726
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 1: I feel like it has such a stigma and people

727
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: are like, oh, but you know then I binge and

728
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, And so I want to talk

729
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 1: to you you on your sort of recommendations on how

730
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: do you sort of rebuild healthy relationship with food if

731
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: you are someone who is in that binging cycle, And

732
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: do you have any tips for girls who are struggling

733
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: with that at the moment?

734
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well again, kind of these myths about binging.

735
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: We think, or I thought, and I think a lot

736
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 2: of people feel like they are one of the only

737
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 2: bingers in the world, Like I am a binger. Everyone

738
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: else can diet and everyone else can eat normally, but

739
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: I am this like secret monster. And we believe that

740
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 2: the binging is the core problem that we need to heal.

741
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: But binging really genuinely is.

742
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: A reactive state.

743
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: It's a reactive disorder, and it is a direct response

744
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: to either physical restriction, so like actually restricting your food,

745
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: actually eating less, actually not eating enough, or especially after

746
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: you've been on a couple diets, just the mental part,

747
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: just the mental restriction or the guilt over eating, or

748
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 2: the thought that maybe tomorrow you should go on a

749
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: diet that can actually affect.

750
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 3: Your hormone levels.

751
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 2: It can actually affect your hunger levels and lead.

752
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: To a binge. So I say, you know, binging is

753
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 3: a direct response.

754
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: To restriction, but it's both actual physical restriction. And then

755
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: even if you're eating enough, but you're still thinking that

756
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be, or that maybe tomorrow you shouldn't be,

757
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: or that something's got to change, that can put you

758
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 2: right back into the binging, which then just like continues

759
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: the cycle. And I know that this is really you know,

760
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: it can sound really overwhelming to like, well, how do like,

761
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: how do you step out of that cycle? But stepping

762
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: out of that cycle is you can't always do it

763
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: in one fell swoop, right. I think it does take

764
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: a little bit of trial and error. So the first

765
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: obvious thing is begin to truly truly feed yourself and

766
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: kind of like look at it as a sort of

767
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: like if I were on a famine or a semi famine,

768
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: which most famines are semi famines where you only have

769
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 2: a little bit of food. If I were on a

770
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: semi famine for however long I've been dieting, I'll say

771
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 2: a year or ten years, what logically, just from a

772
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 2: super biological standpoint, might my body need a lot of food,

773
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: Like you'll need a lot of food for a long

774
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 2: time before your body can calm down. And then because

775
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: of diet culture and because of all of our beliefs

776
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 2: and fears about food and weight and health, we're going

777
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: to then have all of these beliefs that we need

778
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 2: to begin to examine because that might keep you stuck

779
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 2: in a little bit of a mental restriction guilt place.

780
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 2: So unfortunately, I don't have a I mean, I have

781
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: a magic button.

782
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 3: It's stopped dieting.

783
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,479
Speaker 2: But the actual process of stopping dieting, practically for most

784
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: of us, it comes with a lot of fear and resistance,

785
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 2: and so we do need to be prepared to work

786
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: through those things.

787
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: I love that, and I love what you said about

788
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: you don't fix it in one go. It is this

789
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: like constant process that you have to work on, and

790
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 1: it's okay that it takes time and you know you'll

791
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: go through different beliefs and that sort of thing. Like,

792
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: it's not I don't really think there's a quick fix,

793
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: if that makes sense.

794
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: No, because it's so scary for people. And that's why

795
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 2: I like to talk about the famine, because if we

796
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: were in a famine and we weren't in diet culture,

797
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 2: and it was two hundred years ago and we had

798
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: like a really bad winter or something, and we finally

799
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 2: had food again, we would be starving and we would

800
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 2: eat so much, and everyone would be celebrating how much

801
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: we were eating, and we would like be tired and

802
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 2: like resting and repairing, and we'd gain weight and it

803
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: would like be great, you know, Yeah, it wouldn't take

804
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: like a day, you know, it would take a little while.

805
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: But because of all of our beliefs about what we're

806
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 2: supposed to be experiencing and how hungry were supposed to

807
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: be and how much you were supposed to be eating,

808
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: we panic, you know, and then we kind of like

809
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: complicate the process with a lot of fear. Understandably, But

810
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why I talk about the famine,

811
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: because if you could just come back to that simple logic,

812
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: like the famine logic, what would really happen? It can

813
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: actually be really helpful to be like no, no, no,

814
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 2: this would be fine, this is fine, you.

815
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: Know, yes, love it, eat all the foods, yes, Okay.

816
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: So I before you spoke about Health at Every Size,

817
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: and I was just thinking, that's a new concept that

818
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: I have been looking into. I honestly hadn't really heard

819
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: it until maybe like six months ago. And I really

820
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: would love if you could touch on that and explain

821
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: that approach.

822
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 3: Yes, oh that's well.

823
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: First, I do want to recommend the book Health at

824
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: Every Size. It's by Linda Bacon, and she's a scientist

825
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 2: and she studies weight and health. It's fascinating and it'll

826
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 2: do a way better job of explaining all of this,

827
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: but I will I will give my overview. So basically,

828
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 2: it talks about how size diversity is real. So it's

829
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: counter to this sort of unspoken belief that everyone is

830
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 2: meant to be thin. You know, if we all have

831
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: good habits, we'll all just be thin and everything will

832
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: be great and we'll be healthy and whatever.

833
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: It's not.

834
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 2: Actually true. Size diversity is very real, and we all

835
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: have weight set ranges. So you and I will yo yo,

836
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: you know, if we eat a lot of food or

837
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: restrict a lot of food, we will yo yo in

838
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: our weight, but it'll be within a small ish range.

839
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: It'll be a couple sizes up and down, and that's it.

840
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 3: It will be really really hard for us to go

841
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 3: up two hundred pounds.

842
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 2: And yet that's all our fear, right, We're like, oh no,

843
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: I'm just going to keep going and going and going

844
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: and going. But that's really I mean, unless some like

845
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: big health thing happens, or a big thyral like something

846
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: that's kind of more rare, I would say, that's not

847
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: going to happen to us. You know, we really do

848
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: yo yo within a range, and so do larger bodied people.

849
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: Most of them were.

850
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: Bigger as children, and of course they believed that they

851
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: weren't supposed to be and they probably were put on

852
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: diets early.

853
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 3: So a lot of them have been dieting their whole lives.

854
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: But they've been yoyoing too, and they've been feeling horrible

855
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: about themselves, believing that it's all their fault.

856
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 3: But they've been yoyoing within a higher range.

857
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 2: And just understanding that we all really do have different

858
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 2: places where our body feels safe and is able to

859
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: be healthy. Now, health at every size doesn't mean that

860
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: everyone is healthy at every size. That health is something

861
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: we can seek regardless of size. Getting away from the

862
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: thin centric paradigm, believing that everyone's just supposed to be

863
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: thin and that everyone will be healthier if they're thin,

864
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: because people who are yoyoing in that in a higher

865
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 2: weight ranger, who have always been larger bodied, their health suffers.

866
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 3: If they develop an eating disorders, say.

867
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: And everyone's praising them and they get down to a

868
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 2: lower weight, their health is suffering at that lower weight

869
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 2: that might even be higher than you and I, because

870
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: their body doesn't want to be there, and it's in

871
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: this crisis state that we'd essentially be talking about this

872
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 2: whole time. So it's unpacking the science behind that and

873
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: then explaining like fascinating studies about how weight cycling actually

874
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: going up and down in our weight is worse for

875
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: our health and is worse for fat people's health than

876
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: if they just stayed at their higher weight.

877
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: And you know, slightly tweaked their their habits.

878
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: And it really just breaks down the misconceptions that we

879
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,879
Speaker 2: have currently about weight and health. And again, I've sort

880
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: of been talking about it this whole time, but it also,

881
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 2: you know, it is advocating.

882
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 3: For larger bodied people who are really.

883
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: You know, at a disadvantage when they go to the

884
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: doctor because of all of these beliefs, and it's what's

885
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 2: sort of taught in medical school, just sort of like

886
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 2: broad strokes about weight and health and these assumptions that

887
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, these people are going in saying, you know,

888
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: I have me problems, and instead of just getting the

889
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: physical therapy exercises that could really help them that they

890
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 2: would give to a thinner person, they say, you have

891
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: to lose weight first, and then we'll talk about what

892
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: to do next.

893
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 3: It's like that can put.

894
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 2: Them into a whole horrible eating cycle and which makes

895
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: their health even worse and long term, you know, we're

896
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: not that science really is not supporting that weight long

897
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: term is really possible for almost anybody that when you

898
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: actually have a study that looks at it long term,

899
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 2: and so if you do, everyone regains weight and more

900
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: and their health is like worse than they even started.

901
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,959
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating. I'm actually not an expert on health

902
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: at every size. I think it's informed the way that

903
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,439
Speaker 2: I talk about eating and changing a relationship to weight,

904
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,919
Speaker 2: but the ins and outs of all of the sime

905
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: I like to say that I have data amnesia, where

906
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: like I'll read all this stuff, I'll read about all

907
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 2: these studies and then it's like poof, Yep, No, I

908
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: can't refer to the specifics of those studies, but I

909
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 2: know them in my heart.

910
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: You know, that was a great sort of overview. I

911
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: was actually I can't remember what it was on. I'm

912
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: exactly like you, but I don't know. It may even

913
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: being your podcast, But I was listening to something and

914
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: they were saying it's actually really bad where you know,

915
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 1: someone who's in a big up body will have these

916
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:01,359
Speaker 1: health issues and the doctors warn't even kind of look

917
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: into it. And there's cases people literally die because yeah,

918
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, they haven't looked into it and they've just said, oh,

919
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 1: you need to lose weight, when you know, like they

920
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: just should have looked into the problem and that sort

921
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: of thing, which is, yeah, it's crazy.

922
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking, And of course I went to knees when yeah,

923
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: people go in with lung cancer saying they're short of

924
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 2: breath and the doctor says, you need to lose weight,

925
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: and then they die of lung cancer a couple months later.

926
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 2: Like it's just and even people putting off going to

927
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: the doctor because they're like, oh, they're just going to

928
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: tell me that I'm not eating right and they're like, meanwhile,

929
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: I've been on a diet for you know, ten years,

930
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's really once you hear about it,

931
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, how did this?

932
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: How did this happen? You know?

933
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: And then and and the answer of how we can

934
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 2: begin to change it is just start talking about it,

935
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,959
Speaker 2: which is what we're doing, which is which is good.

936
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: I just also wanted to touch on what you were

937
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: talking about at the start regards to sort of that

938
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: set point. And that's something I realized when I was

939
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 1: chronic dieting and I was living with a roommate and

940
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: she was genetically thinner than me and leaner at me,

941
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: and so we lived together for like maybe two and

942
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: a half years, and it was to the point towards

943
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: the end where we were training the exact same we

944
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: were eating the exact same food, and I was definitely

945
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, skinny and lean because of my crazy diet.

946
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: But she I always just thought myself, what, like, I

947
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: don't understand I'm literally training the same, I'm eating the same,

948
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: and I'm as lean. And it took me so long

949
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 1: to realize that sometimes it just doesn't matter what you do.

950
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,919
Speaker 1: Genetically we're just so different and It was so hard

951
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 1: for me to get that, But then now I do.

952
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: That has been such a release because I just no

953
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,359
Speaker 1: longer compare myself to anyone because I'm just like I

954
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: just I can't because we're all so different.

955
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just doesn't help. It only leads to like pain, really.

956
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 4: And so I want to finish off this interview.

957
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 1: Well, like I just want to say so many amazing

958
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: points in here, but I just want to finish off

959
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: this interview. So your book is coming out so soon.

960
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: I think when this episode goes live, it should be

961
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: kind of out everywhere. So after we finish this question,

962
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: I'll get you to tell the audience where they can

963
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: get it and all that good stuff. But I got

964
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: the first ten pages for free because I'm a big fan.

965
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: And I saw that you give tools in the books,

966
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 1: and I saw a tool said the belief Release, and

967
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: I was if you can just give a bit of

968
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 1: an insight and tell us about that.

969
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 4: I was very interested.

970
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: Yes, So I do a lot of talk later on

971
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: in the book about our beliefs, and I've you know,

972
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 2: I've been talking about it in this conversation too.

973
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: But really, when you get down to it.

974
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 2: We have all of these beliefs that are unhelpful and untrue,

975
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: and without examining them, they're going.

976
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 3: To rule us.

977
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: They completely shade our entire perception of the world, and

978
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: they actually also affect the way that our body responds

979
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: to things on a very physical level.

980
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 3: So I talk about that a lot.

981
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: I talk about science behind them, but I also I

982
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 2: talk a lot in the book about beginning to feel

983
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: what we have been avoiding feeling.

984
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: That's like what comes before the belief.

985
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 2: Section, and how we actually to process a lot of

986
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: stuck emotion, and that it's kind of similar to our way.

987
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to make this answer way too long, but

988
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 2: it's kind of similar to our to our to the

989
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: way that we approach our hunger. We do the same

990
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: thing with our emotions. So there's a lot of unfelt

991
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: emotion that wants to be felt, and it will help

992
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 2: us get back into our body, help us be willing

993
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 2: to feel what our body feels like and kind of

994
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: inhabit our body and listen to our body. But we

995
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 2: kind of do the same thing with the emotion attached

996
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: to beliefs. So like painful or stressful beliefs are connected

997
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: to unfelt emotion and unprocessed stuff from the past. And

998
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 2: so this belief released tool is just like a very

999
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 2: simple writing exercise that allows us to kind of like

1000
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 2: lean into all of the stuff that's kind of like

1001
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: bound up in these painful beliefs, like say, the belief is,

1002
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: you know, I should look different or I shouldn't be

1003
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 2: this hungry. There's like a lot of panic and pain

1004
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 2: in like all wrapped up in that that is really

1005
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 2: uncomfortable to feel.

1006
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 3: So I, in my whole healing process, I've really tried

1007
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 3: to figure out the easiest way for me to begin to,

1008
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 3: like in bite sized chunks, just begin to process all

1009
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 3: the pain and disco and suffering that you know that

1010
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 3: humans experience and then aren't equipped to feel.

1011
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: And then how can I kind of bottle that up

1012
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: in a way that is really really applicable and doable

1013
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: and just one foot in front of the other, put

1014
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 2: it in the book and give people little tools to

1015
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: help them begin to release the stuff. That's kind of

1016
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 2: like running the show. So that was a really roundabout

1017
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: way of answering your question. But it's hard because that's

1018
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,080
Speaker 2: the last tool, and like all the tools before that

1019
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 2: kind of like build onto each other to create the

1020
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 2: last tool. It's hard to just kind of explain it

1021
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: without going into all those other things. But yeah, I'm

1022
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: excited because I started writing the book not knowing how

1023
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 2: I was going to simplify all of the things that

1024
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 2: I'd learned and applied to myself. And somehow along the way,

1025
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: I mean, I was writing it for three years, but

1026
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 2: it all became super clear and simple, which is really

1027
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 2: I mean, nothing about ending dieting is clear and simple,

1028
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: but that means that the tools should be as clear

1029
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 2: and simple as possible to help you work through all

1030
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 2: the things that aren't.

1031
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 3: So I'm excited. I'm really excited.

1032
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 4: That's amazing. I love that.

1033
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: So let's finish off, and I just want to thank

1034
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 1: you so much for coming onto my podcast. I have

1035
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation so much, and I just want you

1036
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: to let the audience know where they can get your book,

1037
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: where they can find you, where they can follow you,

1038
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: and all that good stuff.

1039
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 2: My website is the Fucketdiet dot com, exactly what it

1040
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: sounds like on Instagram. I'm at the Fucker Diet and

1041
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 2: my book is coming and I'm assuming that your people

1042
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: everyone will be listening to this after it comes out.

1043
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: But my book is coming out March twenty first in

1044
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 2: the UK and Australia.

1045
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 3: It took me so long to figure.

1046
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: Out when it was going because it's so confusing because

1047
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 2: I think Australia's Amazon, Amazon Australia, I don't even know

1048
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 2: what it's going on, but the US version of the

1049
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: book before I had a UK book deal, so it's

1050
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 2: selling that. I was so confused. But basically you should

1051
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 2: be able by the time you're listening to this. You

1052
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 2: can buy the book in Australia on Amazon or book Topia.

1053
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 2: There's an audiobook and there's a kindle so you can

1054
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 2: read it and consume it however you want. And if

1055
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 2: you're listening in any other countries it'll be out by

1056
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: then too well. In the US and Canada it'll be

1057
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 2: out March twenty sixth, and you can go to the

1058
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 2: fucka Dye dot com slash book to find lots of links.

1059
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: And you can also do what you did Georgia and

1060
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: download the first ten pages and read it if you're like,

1061
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: not quite sure, if you're not sure if you're going

1062
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,360
Speaker 2: to like my writing style or whatever, you can read

1063
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: the beginning. But yeah, that's how to find me and

1064
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 2: that's how to find the book. Oh the other frustrating

1065
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: thing is that right now, if you go to Amazon

1066
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: in Australia, if you type in the title of the

1067
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 2: book the fuckut Die, it doesn't come up because of

1068
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: the cur they have to like.

1069
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 3: Fix the whatever.

1070
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: So if that happened, hopefully that'll be all fixed by

1071
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: the time anyone's listening to this.

1072
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: But you can just search my name.

1073
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will link all this in our show notes guys.

1074
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 4: Sojo yay.

1075
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 3: Wonderful. Yeah, So that's it. The Fucking Die dot Com.

1076
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: You so much. It has been an absolute pleasure to

1077
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: have you on the show.

1078
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 3: It was so fun. Thank you so much for reaching

1079
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 3: out and for chatting with me. I've loved it.

1080
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 4: No problem at all. Okay, I'll talk to you later.

1081
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: Thanks Caroline, Thank you so much for listening in. If

1082
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: you like this episode, make sure you subscribe to the

1083
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: Rise and Cocer podcast so you don't miss the next one. Also,

1084
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: if you found this podcast valuable, it would mean the

1085
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: absolute world to me if you.

1086
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 4: Wrote the podcast a review.

1087
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: Plus, if you know someone who would benefit from listening

1088
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: to this episode, make sure you share.

1089
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 3: It with them.

1090
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 1: If you want to go beyond this, so check out

1091
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,640
Speaker 1: our official Instagram at Rise Andconquer dot podcast or my

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Speaker 1: personal Instagram.

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Speaker 4: At Georgie Stevenson.

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Speaker 1: I hope you have an amazing day or night whenever

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Speaker 1: you are listening in Bye for now, and I'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you soon