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Speaker 1: And as we know, Parliament's still sitting in the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory today and if you are hoping for changes to

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Speaker 1: the baril laws in parliament yesterday, well you'll be feeling

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Speaker 1: a bit let down this morning. The CLP's attempt to

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Speaker 1: bring these new bar laws to Parliament on urgency was

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Speaker 1: shut down by Labour's majority. As you've just heard then

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Speaker 1: from the Minister for Small Business and also Veterans' Affairs,

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Speaker 1: Paul Kirby, he said that there is a specific process

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Speaker 1: where that bill has to be introduced if it is

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Speaker 1: going to be on urgency. Well I don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: what the process is, but according to him, the COLP

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Speaker 1: didn't get it right. And joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: right now is the Opposition leader Leah Fanocchiaro.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Leah, Good morning Katie in to

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Speaker 2: your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Leah, did you get it wrong yesterday?

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Speaker 2: Oh Katie, this is just so frustrating and disappointing. This

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Speaker 2: is a government trying to cover up its tracks and

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Speaker 2: muddy the waters. The CLP did not get anything wrong

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Speaker 2: in parliament yesterday. It is perfect, straightforward what we did.

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Speaker 2: It is within the rules of the Parliament. It is

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Speaker 2: process that the government itself like to use when it

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Speaker 2: wants to get something through quickly. And so this is

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Speaker 2: all just a great exercise in distraction. It's disingenuous and

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Speaker 2: it's not true. If they don't want to have bail reform,

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Speaker 2: they'd be big enough to come out and say no,

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Speaker 2: we don't want it go away. But to pretend like

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Speaker 2: we got it wrong is just a cover up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're saying that you got it wrong with

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Speaker 1: the fuel legislation that you talked about a while back

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Speaker 1: as well, and you did the same thing yesterday. Have

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Speaker 1: you got the I mean, have you got the process

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Speaker 1: wrong here? Shouldn't you have done a different way?

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Speaker 2: This is a tactic, This is this is a deliberate tactic.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday in Parliament was a disgrace. You should have seen it.

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Speaker 2: They shut me down within forty seven seconds of speaking, Katie,

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Speaker 2: forty seven seconds, and then while we were having the

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Speaker 2: vote on that decision to shut me down, they were

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Speaker 2: all jeering and carrying on about how we've gotten it

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Speaker 2: wrong and you couldn't even do that. It's just not true.

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Speaker 2: That is absolutely the process. This is a government that

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Speaker 2: doesn't stand by its convictions any day of the Week, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It could bring in legislation to make our community safer

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't. The colp are the ones trying to

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Speaker 2: push forward with reform that meets community expectation and delivers

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Speaker 2: consequences for offenders. And this government is so focused on

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Speaker 2: playing silly political games to try and tease me or

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Speaker 2: make it look like I don't know what I'm doing.

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Speaker 2: But Territorians know very well that it is labor who

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Speaker 2: have no idea what they're doing and are totally out

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Speaker 2: of touch.

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Speaker 1: Look, it's certainly not lost on me that what you

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Speaker 1: are pushing for does seem to be something that members

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Speaker 1: of the community are also pushing for. But I guess

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Speaker 1: some might be questioning this morning, based on what the

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Speaker 1: government is saying, that you made a wrong step by

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Speaker 1: not allowing the government to see a copy of that

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Speaker 1: legislation or to have a briefing. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: would have made any difference?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie. And again this is a government full

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Speaker 2: of excuses, all talk, no action. What we were trying

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Speaker 2: to pass yesterday was exactly the same as the amendment

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Speaker 2: we tried to pass last sittings, so they have seen it.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't require a briefing because it is so unbelievably simple.

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Speaker 2: It's less than one page. It just means that anyone

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Speaker 2: who is a serious violent offender has a presumption against bail.

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Speaker 2: It means they start with a position of nobao. There

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Speaker 2: is nothing to brief Katie. It is just that simple.

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Speaker 2: This is a government that has an entire department legal

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Speaker 2: team that it could ask if it needed an explanation.

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Speaker 2: It's something we debated last sittings and tried to pass

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Speaker 2: last sittings again. This is a government desperate to cover up,

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Speaker 2: to throw mud and distract and try and talk down

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Speaker 2: the colp and what we're trying to do. But territories

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Speaker 2: see through this charade least it is not true.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that this legislation is so important?

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Speaker 1: Because I think that people are probably going to be

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Speaker 1: feeling a bit confused this morning, thinking to themselves, we'll

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Speaker 1: hang on. We've got the government saying that they've got

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Speaker 1: this body of work that they are working on right

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Speaker 1: now into bail reform. You know, they are saying that

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Speaker 1: they've made changes to the presumption of bail when it

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Speaker 1: comes to weapons. But then you are saying it doesn't

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Speaker 1: go far enough. Why do you think that this legislation

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Speaker 1: is so important.

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Speaker 2: It's so important because it's the start of fixing the

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Speaker 2: imbalance of people's rights. What we have at the moment

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Speaker 2: is a lawless society where the rights of the offender

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Speaker 2: is above the rights of people to be safe. And

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Speaker 2: by amending bowl legislation, it means when people do the

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Speaker 2: wrong thing, they should be facing court on the back foot.

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Speaker 2: And that's exactly what the seal people leave in. But

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Speaker 2: what is happening right now is that people are getting

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Speaker 2: to the court to have that discussion around whether they're bailed,

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Speaker 2: and they're on the front foot. Why should people who've

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Speaker 2: done the wrong thing have that leg up in life?

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Speaker 2: That is just not okay. So by amending bail for

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Speaker 2: any serious violent offender, it means it doesn't matter if

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Speaker 2: you have a specific type of weapon like a nigh

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Speaker 2: for whatever government believe is a weapon. If you have

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Speaker 2: a rock, if you use your fist, if you use

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Speaker 2: a car, if you pick up a pole, if you

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Speaker 2: kick someone in the head, these are all things that

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Speaker 2: should be captured to send a message to people doing

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing that we will not be giving you

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Speaker 2: endless liberty, that we will be making sure the rights

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Speaker 2: of people to be safe comes first, and that's why

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Speaker 2: this is so important, Leah.

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Speaker 1: I know you are pressed for time this morning, but

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Speaker 1: a couple of things I still want to ask. The

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Speaker 1: government was really hammering you yesterday in Parliament. They were

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Speaker 1: saying that you're a one trick pony and all you

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Speaker 1: talk about is crime. You want to talk tough on crime,

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Speaker 1: and you're not prepared to listen to the experts. They

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Speaker 1: again said that you're talking the territory down.

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Speaker 2: Is that the case again? This is a government who

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Speaker 2: is unable to listen to the community. We have had

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Speaker 2: three rallies on the steps of Parliament House where thousands

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Speaker 2: and thousands of territories are calling for change and action.

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Speaker 2: Three and a half thousand people gathered in Alice Springs

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Speaker 2: to do the same thing. This is a government who

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Speaker 2: spends all of its time talking about me and talking

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Speaker 2: about the CLP. Katie. Literally in question time the day

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Speaker 2: before yesterday, they asked each other questions. I heard it

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Speaker 2: about the CELP. No, I heard it extraordinary, wild. I've

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Speaker 2: never seen that before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was very bizarre, don't worry. I

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Speaker 1: was watching and did think it was quite bizarre. I

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Speaker 1: also watched you know what it unfolded yesterday as you

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Speaker 1: tried to obviously push that will attempt to bring in

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Speaker 1: those new bail laws. So I am seeing it and

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Speaker 1: I know that a lot of our listeners are listening

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Speaker 1: to it as well. I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are more politically astute and more switched on than

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Speaker 1: what the government's giving them credit for at this point.

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Speaker 1: But I want to ask, we know that Yinya Guayula also,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, moved emotion yesterday that the Assembly

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Speaker 1: refers to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee for inquiry

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Speaker 1: and report back to the Assembly by May next year

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Speaker 1: a process to review bills introduced into the Assembly for

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Speaker 1: their impact on First Nations territories. Lea, is this like

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Speaker 1: a second voice to Parliament or a voice to Parliament

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Speaker 1: from the northern territory level, and then we're going to

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Speaker 1: have a second voice to Parliament on the federal level.

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Speaker 2: I don't think Yuinia sees it that way, but I

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Speaker 2: don't want to verbal him. I haven't had a discussion

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Speaker 2: with him, so I won't comment on that. But it

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Speaker 2: is important and members of Parliament are able to put

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Speaker 2: forward whatever it is they believe in, and we fundamentally

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Speaker 2: will always support that. So the fact that it's been

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Speaker 2: referred to a committee of the Parliament to explore is

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Speaker 2: just a fundamental part of democracy. So we do support that.

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Speaker 2: We will actively and properly and professionally take part in

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Speaker 2: that committee process, and depending on where it goes and

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Speaker 2: what the outcome is, will either support the recommendations made

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Speaker 2: by the committee or will prepare a dissenting report. But

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Speaker 2: we will participate in good faith because that's what democracy

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Speaker 2: is about.

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Speaker 1: If it's very true, it is what democracy is about. Well,

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Speaker 1: Lea Finocchio, we'll see if we can get on to

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Speaker 1: Yna Gayula at some point next week. I reckon to

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Speaker 1: have a chat to him about exactly what it is

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Speaker 1: all about. We appreciate your time this morning, and no

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Speaker 1: doubt be another interesting day in parliament.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well I hope it's better than yesterday. But if

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Speaker 2: this government keep talking about the COLP, well we're only

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Speaker 2: talking about territorians, I think people we'll see right through

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Speaker 2: what this game is all about.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time this morning, Lea