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Speaker 1: Now, as we heard on the show yesterday, the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association's annual conference is happening this week and

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Speaker 1: this year the Police Association have invited Ben Bissant, the

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Speaker 1: first officer to enter the Lint Siege cafe and shoot

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Speaker 1: Man Monas well, to speak to officers. Now, Ben set

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Speaker 1: to speak to members of the police force about PTSD

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Speaker 1: and also finding life after policing, and he joins me

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Speaker 1: in the studio right now. Good morning, Ben morning, are

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Speaker 1: you yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the

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Speaker 1: show this morning. Now, Ben, our listeners might not recognize

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Speaker 1: your name, but they'll definitely remember where they were and

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Speaker 1: the moment that your actions saved the lives of so many.

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Speaker 1: You fired the shots which took down Man Monas in

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Speaker 1: the Lint Cafe siege. But up until recently you weren't

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Speaker 1: actually able to be named. You've finally got your name back,

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Speaker 1: You've released a book, you're certainly out there telling your story.

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Speaker 1: What was it like when you turned up to the

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Speaker 1: Lynx Cafe on that day?

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Speaker 2: To be honest, the day you started, Like many others,

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Speaker 2: we were at that stage on heilot because there were

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Speaker 2: so many terrorism incidents happening around the world. We'd actually

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Speaker 2: been doing a lot of counter terrorism work in and

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Speaker 2: around our state, and we knew Victoria were doing the same.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it started like many others. But once the

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Speaker 2: call came in, I would say we were expecting it.

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Speaker 2: We thought it was a matter of time until a

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Speaker 2: big job came in and then yeah, we'll rush down

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Speaker 2: to Martin Place.

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Speaker 1: What's that feeling you get when you know that you're

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Speaker 1: rushing down to a dangerous situation. I would imagine it's

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Speaker 1: sort of vital flight sense. You know, you might feel

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Speaker 1: those butterflies in your stomach, but you you know, all

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Speaker 1: that training and you're adrenaline really would kick in. I'm assuming.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, of course for us, we can't have the flight

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Speaker 2: part of the fight or flight. Yeah, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. But yeah, the adrenaline did kick in. Initially,

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Speaker 2: there's still we weren't one hundred percent sure if it

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Speaker 2: was what it was being portrayed us, but it became

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Speaker 2: evident very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, then when you arrive, you see what's going

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Speaker 1: on and you know what has to be done to

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Speaker 1: try and resolve the situation. Take us through some of

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Speaker 1: those moments.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was there with the rest of the

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Speaker 2: TAU for sixteen hours before we were allowed to go in.

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Speaker 2: As we arrived, it was a scene of chaos. There

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Speaker 2: were pedestrians running everywhere, gd's general duties, police officers moving everyone.

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Speaker 2: We eventually took up position just on the top side

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Speaker 2: of the cafe. Throughout the day, it was very hot.

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Speaker 2: We're in our full kit, but not only that, it

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Speaker 2: ramped up to some points where our management believed we

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Speaker 2: were going to go in, and then it dropped back down,

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Speaker 2: so that made it a long day. It was very

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Speaker 2: frustrating too, because we had very little observations and didn't

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Speaker 2: really know what was going on inside.

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Speaker 1: YEA very concerning, and I mean that moment like that,

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Speaker 1: that day changed your life forever, didn't I.

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Speaker 2: Yep, definitely did. And it's one that after it I

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Speaker 2: knew throughout my career and other jobs and everything I've done,

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Speaker 2: there's been some big moments, and I always tried to

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Speaker 2: just lock it away, push it down, like I imagine

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Speaker 2: most police officers do. After that, I did struggle for

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Speaker 2: a really struggle with massive symptoms for good six months,

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Speaker 2: but I continue to fight through it and stayed on

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Speaker 2: in the tea for another six years after that, And.

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Speaker 1: I can't even begin to imagine what it would be

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Speaker 1: like to be in a situation like that where you

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Speaker 1: can see the danger that's unfolding, you can see what's

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Speaker 1: happening right there in front of your eyes, you know

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Speaker 1: what needs to be done, Like he had to be

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Speaker 1: taken down, and it was you know, it was a

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Speaker 1: threat to all of those innocent live. But then afterwards,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many questions that get asked about

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Speaker 1: whether you've done the right thing, and you know, and

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Speaker 1: the coronial inquest happens, and all of those questions get asked,

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Speaker 1: and like, I get it, they need you know, all

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Speaker 1: those questions need to be asked, but it must have

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Speaker 1: a huge toll on you as a.

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Speaker 2: Human, Yeah, for sure. And throughout the day we actually

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Speaker 2: managed to see into the cafe. Myself and my shield

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Speaker 2: man manage to see in, which made it even harder

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Speaker 2: once we'd seen the hostage and the distress of the hostages,

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Speaker 2: and my natural inclination is to go in and say,

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Speaker 2: even do my job, which we were trained for, but

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Speaker 2: not being allowed to for sixteen hours made it very hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the coronal inquest I actually fired on him fifteen times

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Speaker 2: and in that which all the evidence shows that it

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Speaker 2: was within two to three seconds of actually engaging. So

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Speaker 2: that was broken down into seconds and milliseconds by just

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Speaker 2: about everyone in critiqued in question and whereas other elements

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Speaker 2: i'd suggest weren't questioned as much. So I know there

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Speaker 2: was closed court for ATO and PP Department public prosecutions

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So yeah, that was difficult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And then you know, for all of these years,

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Speaker 1: like we're talking more than ten years, you were never

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Speaker 1: able to be named. So essentially your name's been suppressed

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Speaker 1: for that period of time. Even on your book, your

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Speaker 1: name is not on there.

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Speaker 2: Is that it actually is now just now we had

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Speaker 2: to bring out a new version because before it was

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Speaker 2: only office A.

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Speaker 1: What was that like for you, you know, not your

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Speaker 1: identity not being able to be revealed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very difficult. One of the things I

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Speaker 2: did do during my healing process was to write a book,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted to share with as many people as

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Speaker 2: I can my story and my journey with PTSD and

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Speaker 2: my journey to recovery. So that's my now my new

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Speaker 2: thing to try and help people, and not being to

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Speaker 2: put my name to the book was very difficult or

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Speaker 2: be able to speak with people, and I don't understand

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Speaker 2: why it was fought so hard, but yeah, it was fought.

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Speaker 1: By the.

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Speaker 2: Police force management right to the end and the coroner's office.

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Speaker 1: You're no longer a police officer, are you? I'm no,

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Speaker 1: and so you are. You're here though, to speak to

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory police officers as part of the Police

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Speaker 1: Association's annual conference, to speak to them about PTSD and

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Speaker 1: about your experience and what your life was like post

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Speaker 1: that experience. What are you hoping that they sort of

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Speaker 1: gain from those discussions.

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Speaker 2: Well, firstly, a serious discussion doesn't need to happen. I'm

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Speaker 2: pushing for a national parliamentary inquiry which has gained quite

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Speaker 2: a bit attraction, and a serious conversation does need to happen.

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Speaker 2: I believe the military have actually put a lot of

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Speaker 2: money and resources into it and doing a lot better

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Speaker 2: than the police forces in other emergency services. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: even to initiate the conversation is a very important thing

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Speaker 2: because there's so many people ex police officers and emergency

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Speaker 2: services still struggling so much. There's still high rates of

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Speaker 2: suicide everything, and a very serious conversation needs to happen

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Speaker 2: about it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, even here in the Northern Territory, we're awaiting the

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Speaker 1: outcome of a coronial inquest into Michael Dutrom, a Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory police officer who took his life. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I like, I think our police do such a

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Speaker 1: tremendous job. It is such a difficult job, and you know,

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Speaker 1: the trauma that you're faced with every single day, and

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Speaker 1: then at a critical incident like the one that you

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Speaker 1: were involved in, the change to your life when you

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Speaker 1: are undertaking your daily duties that you've been employed to do,

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Speaker 1: but then the ramifications of that for an incredibly long time,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I can't even begin to imagine what

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Speaker 1: that's been like for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not only how much it changed my life,

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Speaker 2: but also my family and my children and friends. It

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Speaker 2: affects such a large proportion of society. And to give

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Speaker 2: you somebody, I was back at work the next day

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Speaker 2: after that. So it just needs a sue discussion into it,

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Speaker 2: even preparation prior to police attending incidents. And then yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'd suggest money and resources into help helping police officers

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Speaker 2: get through it because they're such an important part of

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Speaker 2: society and we need them strong, fit and healthy and

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Speaker 2: to do the job as long as they possibly can.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, Then you've written your book. You mentioned it a

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Speaker 1: moment ago. You've written your book. What can people expect

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Speaker 1: when they read that my book?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Tiger, Tiger Tiger. I'm doing a book signing today

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Speaker 2: the day and bookstore in the mall at twelve point thirty.

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Speaker 1: Awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's I'd say it starts more a bit like an

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Speaker 2: action movie, which is sort of my career in the

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Speaker 2: tu up to it, and then shows my eventual decline

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Speaker 2: and then yeah, then struggling with PTSD, acknowledging that I

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Speaker 2: do have PTSD, and then my new challenge, my new

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Speaker 2: threat and fight was PTSD and my way about going

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Speaker 2: about it and not letting it beat me as I

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Speaker 2: haven't in every aspect of my life. I don't like

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Speaker 2: to be beaten. So I, yeah, just my ways and

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Speaker 2: strategies of doing that, and I believe that that will

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Speaker 2: help as many people as I can.

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Speaker 1: That good on you, Yeah mate, it says there in

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Speaker 1: the top corner of the book as well. The book

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Speaker 1: they wanted to ban, How important was it for you

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Speaker 1: to get it?

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Speaker 2: Out very important, and even three days before I had

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Speaker 2: threats from Police force upper management, threat threatening pretty much

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Speaker 2: jail time and pretty severe fines if I were were

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Speaker 2: to release it. I tried for a good twelve months,

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Speaker 2: approached them, asking them I wanted to work with them

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Speaker 2: because obviously I'll still loyal to the police force. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: their response was to ignore me for nine months before

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Speaker 2: beginning to threaten me if I were to release it.

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Speaker 2: This is what's to happen, which is very upsetting, to

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Speaker 2: be honest, and confusing us to their stance on it.

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Speaker 2: But I went ahead and published it and it's doing well.

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Speaker 2: I've got lots of feedback and it's helping lots of people,

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Speaker 2: which is the main point of it.

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Speaker 1: Good on you. Well, it's called Tiger Tiger Tiger, as

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, and you can head to Tiger Tiger Tiger

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Speaker 1: book dot com if you're not able to get to

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Speaker 1: the bookstore today at twelve thirty? Was it twelve thirty

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Speaker 1: in them all? Oh, good on you, Ben, Ben Besant.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so very much for joining us in the

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Speaker 1: studio and telling us more about your story.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much for having me on.

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Speaker 1: Thank you