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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, this is the trickiest part about having this conversation,

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Speaker 2: I think for most parents, is this idea that we

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Speaker 2: don't want to create in our children of fear that

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Speaker 2: every person, unknown to them is a risk of danger.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my Mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 3: Well, Parental Guidance on Channel nine last night started off

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Speaker 3: with a lot of fun with Dodge and cars and

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Speaker 3: families laughing and breaking into their own homes and showing

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Speaker 3: everyone how how they can they can undo their security.

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Speaker 3: And then the mood changed amazingly and quite heavily, and

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Speaker 3: we have got to talk about parental guidance on Channel

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Speaker 3: nine last.

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Speaker 1: Night, not my children, but just the thought of that

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Speaker 1: happening to your child.

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Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson. I'm the parenting expert

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Speaker 3: on parental guidance and the founder of Happy Families dot com,

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Speaker 3: dot I you, and I'm here with Kylie, my wife

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Speaker 3: Mund our six kids and co host of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Kylie, what did you think?

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Speaker 2: That was probably some of the hardest TV I've had

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Speaker 2: to watch in a long time.

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Speaker 1: But even though it was hard to.

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Speaker 2: Watch it, it's a conversation that we just have to have.

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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, as a result of last night's show airing,

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Speaker 2: how many people are actually now having this conversation with

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Speaker 2: their kids.

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Speaker 1: If you missed it, here's what happened. Charlie's just had puppies.

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Speaker 1: They're just over there. You want to go have a

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Speaker 1: look at them?

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Speaker 3: Puppies just over there, just over the behind the chair,

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Speaker 3: little puppies.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to go? Okay? It makes me so.

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Speaker 4: Angry that some would ever do that to a child,

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Speaker 4: and that's an act of it. I'm just like it

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Speaker 4: was as a dad doing things to me about in

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Speaker 4: that In that in that scenario we.

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Speaker 1: Mentioned the respect of authority, obedious, it's really difficult for

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Speaker 1: a kid, in let alone fave year old kid to

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Speaker 1: tell about. I know it's authority, but I have a

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Speaker 1: good feeling.

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Speaker 5: Of course you can. Tony cheers, isn't she She actually

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Speaker 5: just had a few little puppies.

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Speaker 4: I've got to feel more.

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Speaker 1: In the car you want it comes in?

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Speaker 5: They're so cute, unbelievably cute.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to get the other guys? You want

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Speaker 1: to come check out the puppies. Okay, Tony years puppy.

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Speaker 2: Cry Well, I still get chills. It was really intense.

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Speaker 3: I was I was literally sitting in front of the

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Speaker 3: TV weeping. I mean just because you put yourself there

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Speaker 3: and you think, what would they do?

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Speaker 2: What?

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Speaker 3: What would my kids do? Like we've had the conversations.

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Speaker 3: Actually we've probably let ourselves laps a little bit here

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Speaker 3: on this conversation. We were very very good with the

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Speaker 3: first four, probably our first four.

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Speaker 1: I don't reckon.

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Speaker 3: We've had this conversation for about three years, and our

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Speaker 3: little ones need this conversation.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's where it hit me.

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Speaker 2: It was like, We've got this adorable little seven year

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Speaker 2: old who is just so trusting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so hlorious dogs and.

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Speaker 2: Loves lizards, loves meeting people, and the thought of her

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Speaker 2: being placed in that situation. I think we would have

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Speaker 2: been in a similar situation to many of the parents

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Speaker 2: last night.

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Speaker 3: I reckon we would have been sitting on that catch

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Speaker 3: right next to Andrew and Miriam crying as we watched

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Speaker 3: our kids, or Breton Tony as we watched our ki

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Speaker 3: And what about I mean strength in numbers. You always

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Speaker 3: think you have four kids, four nine year olds, as

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Speaker 3: if there's going to be a problem. Wow, I've got

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Speaker 3: chills even talking about it now, I know.

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Speaker 2: So, is there any stats on the kids that are

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Speaker 2: most at risk, because basically last night highlighted that parenting

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Speaker 2: style aside, it's no guarantee. No, I don't think, I

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Speaker 2: don't even having conversations is no guarantee.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, I mean that just stood out so much.

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Speaker 3: So I've been looking for good stats and it seems

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Speaker 3: that different states report different things in different ways at

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Speaker 3: different times.

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Speaker 1: So the best stats that I can find are about

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Speaker 1: five or six years old.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 3: They're from the Australian's site of Health and Welfare and

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Speaker 3: it's twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen data. But what it shows

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Speaker 3: is that there were just so I can't get any

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Speaker 3: stats on attempted kidnappings and that kind of thing, which

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Speaker 3: is the really pointing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the scariest of scary stuff.

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Speaker 3: But in terms of suspected child abuse and child neglect,

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Speaker 3: we've got about three hundred and twenty thousand nationally reported

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Speaker 3: cases of suspected issues with kids like that.

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Speaker 1: That's a third of a million.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the number is just staggering, and around about

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Speaker 3: sixty thousand of those cases were confirmed.

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Speaker 1: But there are so many cases that aren't being reported.

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Speaker 1: There are so many things.

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Speaker 3: I've got a couple of friends I've got We've got

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Speaker 3: some friends who work in the police, and they literally

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Speaker 3: are actually at the cold face of child protection and

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Speaker 3: they just shake their head. They say, you wouldn't believe,

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't believe what's going on. And you know what,

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Speaker 3: Actually the biggest predictors are of who's most likely to

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Speaker 3: suffer child abuse or child neglect. Age is the most

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Speaker 3: significant predictor. The most abused group kids under the age

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Speaker 3: of one, Oh, my god, at a rate of fourteen

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Speaker 3: point seven kids in every thousand, and then from one

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Speaker 3: to four is the next most vulnerable group.

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Speaker 1: And then as.

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Speaker 3: Children get older, the likelihood of harm is reduced, probably

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Speaker 3: because they have voices and they have legs, so there

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Speaker 3: are other factors as well. Gender gender matters enormously. Girls

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Speaker 3: are almost twice as likely to be sexually abused than boys,

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Speaker 3: something like the latest start that I found was sixteen

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Speaker 3: point seven percent versus nine percent. But boys are actually

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Speaker 3: more likely to be the victims of abusive like physically

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Speaker 3: violent behavior and I think the most important thing and

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Speaker 3: I made this point on the show last night, but

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Speaker 3: I need to emphasize it in the podcast today. When

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Speaker 3: we look at data from the Australian Institute of Criminology,

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Speaker 3: sexual abuse most likely to be perpetrated by someone they know,

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Speaker 3: someone known and trusted by the child or the family.

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Speaker 3: It's something like ninety percent of cases the offender is

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Speaker 3: known and trusted. So the breakdown basically is a male

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Speaker 3: relative other than the father or step father thirty percent,

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Speaker 3: a family friend, acquaintance, on neighbor, another known person, and

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Speaker 3: then the father or step father is the lowest at

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Speaker 3: thirteen point five percent, and then the remaining ten percent

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Speaker 3: that's when the offender is a stranger. So important important

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Speaker 3: data to know.

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Speaker 2: So in light of that data, it would seem that

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Speaker 2: there's two really important conversations we need to have with

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Speaker 2: our kids because it's not always a stranger that we

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Speaker 2: need to be wary of. So we used to talk

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Speaker 2: to the kids about five really important things when it

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Speaker 2: came to strangers to help keep them safe. You want

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Speaker 2: to talk us through.

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Speaker 1: Those and I'm so glad you said that.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's literally two conversations at a lot of experts

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Speaker 3: now say, don't even talk about stranger danger. But I

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Speaker 3: think that there's still value in highlighting that there can

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Speaker 3: be some strangers who have bad motives, who are bad actors,

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Speaker 3: who are unpredictable, but we've got to let them know

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Speaker 3: that they're I don't I don't want to use these

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Speaker 3: words with kids, but from an adult to adult conversation,

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Speaker 3: we've got to let them. Let them know that they're

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Speaker 3: at the greatest risk from people that we know and trust.

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Speaker 3: So let's before the break, let's talk about those five

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Speaker 3: things we talk to our kids about regarding strangers, and

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Speaker 3: then after the break, we'll talk about how to talk

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Speaker 3: to kids about people that you know and trust who

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Speaker 3: might still be unsafe.

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Speaker 1: Tricky is the word that we actually use.

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Speaker 3: So first first point, yep, this is one that we

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Speaker 3: both talked about and got really clear on from the outset,

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Speaker 3: and that is that most strangers are really good people.

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Speaker 2: This is the trickiest part about having this conversation, I

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Speaker 2: think for most parents, is this idea that we don't

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Speaker 2: want to create in our children of fear that every

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Speaker 2: person unknown to them.

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Speaker 1: Is a risk of danger. Yeah, that's exactly right. So

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Speaker 1: that's it.

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Speaker 3: Number one, teach the kids that most strangers are good people.

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Speaker 1: But number two, if.

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Speaker 3: The stranger ever approaches, you just check with your parents

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Speaker 3: or with whoever's looking after you before you do anything

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Speaker 3: with that stranger.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we saw in the show last night.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that so great to see that?

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Speaker 1: These kids?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so good And I loved how the two siblings

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Speaker 2: from the Attachment Parents, how they joined forces. It was

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Speaker 2: just so good to see because there is strength in numbers,

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Speaker 2: you know. We saw the four boys and the rawness

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Speaker 2: of that, thinking that four boys is going to be safe, and.

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Speaker 1: That they weren't.

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Speaker 2: But then we see what happens when there's one voice.

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Speaker 3: So Raffi and Chaya, the two kids from the Attachment Parents,

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Speaker 3: they just sort of whispered to each other and they

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Speaker 3: were so cute the way they did it, and it worked.

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Speaker 3: It gave them the strength to say no. And Rich's kids,

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Speaker 3: the Nature parents, they're kids, same thing.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to go tell We'll just go check. Yeah, yeah, brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I loved it.

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Speaker 3: And Harper she was the same. I'll just go and

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Speaker 3: check with the babysitter. That was Jan and Donna's little

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Speaker 3: girl seven years old. Again, I mean just so so

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Speaker 3: straight up, so strong. So I think that they're the

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Speaker 3: two most important things. Number one, most strangers are good people.

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Speaker 3: And number two, if you're ever approached by a stranger,

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Speaker 3: you can actually talk to them, it's okay. But if

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Speaker 3: they want you to do anything, go and check with

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Speaker 3: your parents. I remember when we were living in Woollongong,

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Speaker 3: about an hour south of Sydney for those who are

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Speaker 3: unfamiliar with the geography, we were at the potanical gardens

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Speaker 3: one day and somebody came up to us and said,

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Speaker 3: we've just had our little guy come and let us

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Speaker 3: know that there's some random stranger who has asked him

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Speaker 3: to go off into the bushes to check out a

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Speaker 3: lizard that he found. And fortunately the little boy had

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Speaker 3: gone and said, hey, is it okay if I check

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Speaker 3: in the gardens with this guy who wants to show

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Speaker 3: me the lizard. Just checking with the parents. It's the safeguard,

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Speaker 3: like it does. Get that through to your kids.

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Speaker 1: Next one.

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Speaker 2: Number three, if you're going somewhere with a stranger, always

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Speaker 2: stay in public.

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Speaker 3: Now this rule, yeah, this, even if you've checked with

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Speaker 3: your parents, still stay where people can see you.

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Speaker 2: Well, And this is something that even our eighteen and

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Speaker 2: nineteen year.

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Speaker 1: Olds, Yeah, they need it follow So.

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Speaker 2: If you're meeting someone for the first time, you just

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Speaker 2: make sure you're in public. And they have abided by

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Speaker 2: that and it has been such a great sense of

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Speaker 2: security for us.

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Speaker 3: Okay, here's a really controversial and provocative one, but I

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Speaker 3: stand by it. Some people are going to hate it,

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Speaker 3: but I stand by it. We have always given our

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Speaker 3: children a hierarchy of helpers. So if you're lost, if

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Speaker 3: you're stuck, if you're in trouble, if things are not

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Speaker 3: going well for you, you sometimes need to approach a stranger

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Speaker 3: and get help. And we have taught our kids, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: because when you look at the stats, you've just got

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Speaker 3: to go with the numbers that if you need help,

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Speaker 3: go to a stranger, preferably a mum with children with

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Speaker 3: her right then. And if you can't find a mum

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Speaker 3: with children, then find a dad with children, or find

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Speaker 3: a woman who is I don't know, middle aged or

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Speaker 3: looks trustworthy, or go into a store and stay in

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Speaker 3: a public space.

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Speaker 1: But go into a store.

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Speaker 3: And the hierarchy can the policeman, well, yeah, whoever's around,

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Speaker 3: But always stay in public and that's the hierarchy that

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Speaker 3: we go with. And the last thing that we teach

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Speaker 3: our kids when it comes to strangers. And we've had

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Speaker 3: this actually happen to one of our kids.

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Speaker 1: Oh, don't bring that up.

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Speaker 2: If you ever feel unsafe, And I think the TV

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Speaker 2: show touched on that beautifully, that gut feeling. If there's

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Speaker 2: if your gut's telling you that you're not safe, find

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Speaker 2: another adult.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So we had one of our kids who was walking

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Speaker 3: home from the shops one time and she felt like

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Speaker 3: there was a car that was stalking her. She literally

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Speaker 3: she was like, I've seen that car. Now they're driving

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Speaker 3: slowly behind me. Now they've sped off, now they've come

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Speaker 3: back again. Like she was absolutely terrified, and so we

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Speaker 3: just said, if this happens, remember most strangers are safe.

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Speaker 3: So and in fact, she ran up the driveway of

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Speaker 3: somebody's house and just knocked on the door and that

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Speaker 3: car drove away. And we've told the kids even if

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Speaker 3: you go into the backyard, as long as there's no dogs, like,

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Speaker 3: just go and knock on someone's door if you feel unsafe.

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Speaker 2: Because it's interesting that day she had actually asked if

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Speaker 2: she could take a walk. This was going to be

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Speaker 2: literally the first time she had walked to the neighborhood

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Speaker 2: on her own and we had talked to her and

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Speaker 2: explained why we didn't feel comfortable with it, and she

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Speaker 2: was like, what's going to happen? Yeah, and literally had

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Speaker 2: that experience and came home and just looked at us

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Speaker 2: and went.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I get it. I'll do it every day.

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Speaker 3: Hey, we need to talk about keeping kids safe from

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Speaker 3: people who we should be able to love and trust. Actually,

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Speaker 3: just before we do, and this is gonna be the

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Speaker 3: world's longest podcast, so we need to keep it pretty

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Speaker 3: tight and move on. But I think there's a couple

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Speaker 3: of common sense rules that we need to teach our

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Speaker 3: kids about strangers outside of what we've just said.

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Speaker 1: First Off, if.

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Speaker 3: You're around people that you don't know, who are unfamiliar

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Speaker 3: to you, who are strangers and you don't feel safe,

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Speaker 3: just move away. And secondly, if a stranger promises you

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Speaker 3: stuff like lollies or games, or butterflies or lizards or

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Speaker 3: snake or whatever, puppy, just say no and move away.

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Speaker 1: Go get an adult. And the most important thing.

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Speaker 3: That we've actually practiced role lay in our living room

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Speaker 3: with our four big kids, is if a stranger or

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Speaker 3: an adult ever grabs you or touches you in a

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Speaker 3: way that makes you feel scared, literally, scream as loud

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Speaker 3: as you can stop it or help or don't touch me.

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Speaker 3: And then and just keep on screaming loud. And we've

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Speaker 3: got girls and they know how to scream, and we

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Speaker 3: practice in our living room. Mind you, the neighbors might

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Speaker 3: be concerned if you practice that too much. Anyway, Right

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Speaker 3: off the break, let's talk about how we can keep

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Speaker 3: our kids safe from people that they should be able

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Speaker 3: to trust.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts

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Speaker 5: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 5: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies

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Speaker 5: dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now and today we

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Speaker 2: are having one of the most difficult conversations that we

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Speaker 2: need to have with our children around strangers.

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Speaker 3: We've had many conversations about stranger age, but we probably

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Speaker 3: have sort of had.

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Speaker 1: That sense of security because there's four.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about five things that we can talk to

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Speaker 2: our children about to I guess prepare them and help

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Speaker 2: them to stay safe when it comes to strangers. But

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Speaker 2: as you've shared justin, the statistics actually show that more

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Speaker 2: times than not, our children aren't hurt by strangers at all.

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Speaker 2: That it's actually people that are well known and trusted

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Speaker 2: to their families that are more times than not the

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Speaker 2: perpetrators in these children's lives. So how do we have

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Speaker 2: that conversation with our children. How do we help them

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Speaker 2: to be safe while still trust the beautiful people in

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Speaker 2: their lives because nine times out of ten they are Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just going to share five ideas.

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Speaker 3: We could talk about this, and we probably should do

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Speaker 3: an entire podcast on it, but let me just share

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Speaker 3: five ideas briefly. Number one, we teach our kids that

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Speaker 3: their body is mine, full stop, end of story.

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Speaker 1: Your body is yours.

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Speaker 3: And the second part of the second point, or the

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Speaker 3: extension of that, is that no one should ever ever

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Speaker 3: ever touch your body, especially private parts of your body.

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Speaker 3: Some people talk about the underwear rule so or the

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Speaker 3: swimmer rule. You know, the swimwear covers certain parts of

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Speaker 3: your body, and if that's covered, then nobody should be

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Speaker 3: touching that.

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Speaker 1: A lot of experts will also add.

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Speaker 3: The mouth to that part of the as another private

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Speaker 3: part of your body. Nobody should ever touch your mouth

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Speaker 3: because it's a it's an invasion.

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Speaker 1: Once again.

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Speaker 3: The third thing, and this kind of goes back to

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Speaker 3: what we said before the break, if anyone tries to

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Speaker 3: touch you without your consent or without permission, or because

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Speaker 3: you don't know them, scream and shout really loudly, stop, help,

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Speaker 3: don't touch me. Ah, Just scream and make a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of noise. The other two things that I really encourage,

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Speaker 3: and these are a little bit harder to talk about, but.

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Speaker 1: She they're important.

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Speaker 3: If a person ever tells your child to keep a secret,

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Speaker 3: particularly one that relates to private parts of their body.

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Speaker 2: And if they don't that something bad is going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, quite often they'll make a thread or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Our kids need to know that if that happens, that

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Speaker 3: the person who's saying that is wrong.

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Speaker 1: And we've got to just drill that into our kids.

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Speaker 3: If they say, don't tell anybody, it's wrong, especially if

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Speaker 3: there's been for any number of things, but especially if

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Speaker 3: there's been any any touching of those private parts of

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Speaker 3: the body, and absolutely, unquestionably, no matter what, tell Mum

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Speaker 3: or tell Dad, tell a safe person, tell it a

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Speaker 3: trusted adult immediately.

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Speaker 2: And I think in line with that though, as a parent,

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Speaker 2: we need to take seriously any report that our children

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Speaker 2: comes back to us with so that they know that

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Speaker 2: we are a safe place, that we will listen, that

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Speaker 2: we do trust them.

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Speaker 3: I remember somebody very very close to me described how

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Speaker 3: when she was a girl, there was a man who

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Speaker 3: was visiting her dad. They were friends from work, and

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Speaker 3: he made an inappropriate advance to her.

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Speaker 1: She was only young, very very young, and as soon

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Speaker 1: as the man.

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Speaker 3: Had left, she told her dad what had happened, which

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Speaker 3: I just think is so wonderful that she was actually like, Dad,

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Speaker 3: this is what happened to me. And fortunately she wasn't

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Speaker 3: harmed in this instance, but she was made to feel

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Speaker 3: extremely uncomfortable. She said, Dad, here's what happened. And he

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Speaker 3: just said he will never come into our home again,

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Speaker 3: and she said, I just felt so safe.

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Speaker 1: I felt so protected because of.

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Speaker 3: That, And I think it's such a great model, such

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Speaker 3: a perfect model of how we need to respond to

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Speaker 3: our kids.

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Speaker 1: If that ever happens, And what's the last one?

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Speaker 3: If a person says anything to you or does anything

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Speaker 3: to you, it kind of carries on from that story

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Speaker 3: that does anything to you you're your body, or says

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Speaker 3: anything to you that leaves you feeling bad or yucky

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Speaker 3: or guilty to your parents, even if you're scared, just

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Speaker 3: talk to your parents about it.

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Speaker 1: That's what our kids need to know.

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Speaker 2: So it's been a really really intense and heavy conversation today.

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Speaker 1: And we tried to keep freetings white.

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Speaker 2: And an informative, but I think that this was a

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Speaker 2: really important conversation today to have, and I hope that

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Speaker 2: we can continue the conversation with our children about this

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Speaker 2: so that we can safeguard them.

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Speaker 3: We're going to post a link to an article that

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Speaker 3: I wrote called keeping Our Children Safe from Child Abuse.

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Speaker 3: We'll post that in the show notes, and we'll also

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Speaker 3: put it on our Facebook page and social media so

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Speaker 3: that you can get access to that and.

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Speaker 1: Have it as a helpful reminder.

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Speaker 3: As a result of everything we've talked about, and there

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Speaker 3: are loads of other really great resources online, so please

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Speaker 3: do your research, have the conversations. I'm sure that last

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Speaker 3: night's parental Guidance episode will be a useful.

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Speaker 1: Prompt to encourage that to happen.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Family's podcast, as always, is produced by Justin

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Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 3: If you would like to get more information about how

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Speaker 3: to make your family, visit Happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 3: au and don't forget tonight one more episode this week,

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Speaker 3: Parental Guidance Episode three. I just so badly nearly spilled

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Speaker 3: the beans. I want to tell you it's it's going

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Speaker 3: to be such a great episode. Join us tonight on

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Speaker 3: Channel nine at seven thirty if you're in Australia and

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Speaker 3: you can check out that that episode and we'll be

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Speaker 3: back tomorrow to discuss it and how you can help

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Speaker 3: your kids to thrive a little more tomorrow on The

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Speaker 3: Happy Families Podcast