1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: It's a Happy Families podcast with doctor Justin Coilson, where 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Luke and Susie parents of three little boys, and this 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: is the podcast for those of us who are time 4 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: poor parents. But just one answers. 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: Now, this is such a heart wrenching question that we've 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: received to the show that you're going to try and 7 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 2: address today, Justin, I'll ask you the full question. There's 8 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 2: a lot here. 9 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Okay. 10 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: I'm a full time working mum. I struggle with the 11 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: guilt of not being at school events or home when 12 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: my daughter gets home from school, and being exhausted at 13 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: the end of each day school holidays. The guilt sets 14 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: in as day after day I go off to work 15 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 2: and leave my daughter at home. I'm not a career person. 16 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: I stayed at home for the first fifteen years of 17 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: my family's life. But now with one daughter of four 18 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: still at home and a single mum, I have to work. 19 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: How can working mums resist the guilt? 20 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 3: Feels like the mummy mafia is out There are simple 21 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 3: realities of life, and one of those realities that we 22 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 3: need to warn an income and that doesn't help anybody 23 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 3: who's doing it and leaving their kids at home. It's 24 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 3: a reality, but it's still feels bloh. I think that 25 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 3: the best thing that we can do in these circumstances 26 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: is make sure that our kids are getting the very 27 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 3: best that they can from us when we can give 28 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: it to them, and that kids usually understand circumstances. I've 29 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 3: just done this. I mean, we're obviously talking about a 30 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: child here who's well under their teens. It's probably going 31 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: to feel different having this conversation about a child who's younger. 32 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 3: But with my new book coming out in the early 33 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: part of next year about teenage girls, I've surveyed about 34 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 3: four hundred Australian teenage girls, many of them around the 35 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 3: age of fifteen, who have said the one thing that 36 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: I really wish my parents would do is talk to 37 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 3: me about what's going on in their lives. Like I'm 38 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: a teenager, I'm not too far off being an adult. 39 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 3: Don't try to shelter me, don't try to protect me. 40 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 3: If dad's not well, or if dad's no longer in 41 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: the picture, or if you're struggling, or if you know 42 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 3: where our finances are falling apart. Don't freak me out 43 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 3: and stress me out over it, but communicate with me 44 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 3: and let me know what's going on. I got the 45 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 3: sense from many of the girls who wrote answers like 46 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 3: that that they were saying, I'm big enough to not 47 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: only understand it, but maybe even to contribute or help 48 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 3: in a in one way or another. It could actually 49 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 3: be good for developing perspective and empathy, which is great 50 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 3: if you've got a teenager when you've got younger kids. Again, 51 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 3: I think we all have to do things that we 52 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: don't want to do. In a perfect world, we would 53 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: all stay home with our children and we would take 54 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: them to the beach and we'd have instagram worthy moments 55 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: every day, and somebody would just put I don't know, 56 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year into our 57 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: bank balance just. 58 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: Because so can you make that happen for us? Just 59 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: like that? 60 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: But that's not life, that's not reality. I wish that 61 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: I didn't have to travel. I've got a wife and 62 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: kids at home, and I'm traveling around the country sometimes 63 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 3: a couple of times a week to run presentations. I 64 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: wish I didn't. We all wish that things could be different, 65 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: but they are what they are, and I think just transparent, 66 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: honest conversations with our kids. It won't necessarily take the 67 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 3: guilt away, but it helps the kids understand and then 68 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 3: as a family we get to say, well, how do 69 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 3: we fix this, How can we make our time together 70 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 3: the best? What can we do to support each other? 71 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: Is it a case where we take the ideal options 72 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: in our head of how we parent our children and 73 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,079 Speaker 1: make that the baseline, you know, evaluation of whether we're 74 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: a good parent or not. So we feel the guilt 75 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: because we're not hitting the ideals all the time with 76 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: what we If we had all that money in the 77 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: world and all the time of the world, we would choose. 78 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: To do it this way and a partner who could, 79 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 3: you know, go and do whatever so that we could 80 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 3: be supportive. 81 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: It's always we're not pulling our line down to understand 82 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: that the world is not full of ideals in utopia. 83 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unattainable. And so I there's all sorts of 84 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: books that are on the market. There's people that you 85 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: can talk to to help to overcome the guilt. That's 86 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 3: associated with guilt Ultimately is saying I just I wish 87 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 3: things were different and I'm not happy with how things are. 88 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 3: Guilt is still better than shame. Which is about saying 89 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: there is something wrong with me, and what I'm grateful 90 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 3: for when I hear that question is this is a 91 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 3: mum who's not saying there's anything wrong with me, my personality, 92 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 3: my character. I just wish things were different. And you know, normally, 93 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: when I sit here, I've got really tidy answers, I've 94 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 3: got helpful things where people can go away and they 95 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: can do something different because of what I've said. But 96 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: in this case, I have to say they're just aren't 97 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: answers for every problem that we face. Sometimes the only 98 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: thing that we can do is give it time, let 99 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: ourselves and our families develop through things. Circumstances will change eventually, 100 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 3: make the most of a bad hand, and wait until 101 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 3: the next deal and something new might come up that's 102 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: really unsatisfying. Well, I'm hearing myself say, going, oh, but 103 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: I want to do somebody. 104 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes, isn't isn't the point of guilt if it's unreasonable guilt, 105 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: unreasonable expectations, just to know that you know it's okay, 106 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: like you're okay, Like it's like you don't need to 107 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: feel that guilt, because even the expert goes, you can't 108 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: have it all. You can't get it right all the time, 109 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: or you can't attain the utopia. I think sometimes that 110 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: just makes you feel good to go, Okay, I've been myself, 111 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,119 Speaker 1: but I'm the only one who's judging myself right. 112 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: And I don't know anybody who's actually got it all 113 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 3: together and who has the perfect balance between their work 114 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: and their family and their recreation and their finances. I'm 115 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: sure that they do exist. Maybe they're all listening to 116 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 3: the show right now except for this one person, and 117 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: she really is all right. But she's not. That's the thing, 118 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: none of it, none of us are. It's just hard, 119 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 3: and I don't think there's any tidy answers. But things change, 120 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 3: seasons come and go. 121 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: This mum will have other mums in her school who 122 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: turn up to every school event. They would do everything else. 123 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: Every all events. I mean, to so many assemblies. 124 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: Some of them are horrible, some of them are amazing, 125 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: some of them are terrible. But like, there are mums 126 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: who have this perception of like that they are there 127 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: for their children all the time. Why can't my life 128 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: be like that? Is that perception a lie like or 129 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: is it just a different area that they're struggling in? 130 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: How can we look at that and not feel like 131 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: we're the ones who are doing the worst job. 132 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. I mean some people make sure that 133 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 3: everybody sees them doing those things as well, So for 134 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 3: some people it's really important. How important is it really 135 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,239 Speaker 3: that you're working in the touch shop or that you're 136 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 3: volunteering at the school. It's great if you can, but 137 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 3: not everybody can. And I actually think the percentage of 138 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: parents that are doing it consistently is probably a lot 139 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 3: lower than this might imagine. Great if you can do it, 140 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,559 Speaker 3: most parents probably can't because most parents are juggling work 141 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: and everything else that's going on, and you know, work 142 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 3: is usually during school hours. Don't have any don't have 143 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: any great advice other than it will pass. 144 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's it. I remember talking to a 145 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: moment at school who showed up to everything, and she said, 146 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: but I only show up to everything because I can. 147 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: If my situation's changed and I couldn't, then I wouldn't 148 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: and it would be okay. And I thought that was 149 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: such a level headed approach to it. I show up 150 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: because I can, but if I can't, I can't. It's 151 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: just as simple as that. That's just the reality of life. 152 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, and when this mum has the conversation with her 153 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 3: or she says, you know, if I could be there, 154 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: I would be there, yea. If we didn't have rent 155 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 3: to pay, or a mortgage to pay, or groceries to 156 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 3: pay for, I'd be there in a heartbeat. And I 157 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 3: will take a day off here and there for the 158 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 3: most important, most biggest, most wonderfulest moments that I really 159 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: do need to be there for. But this is an 160 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 3: assembly where you're going to get a merit award that 161 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: says that you've been more behaved in class, and I 162 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 3: just can't be there for that one now. 163 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Doctor Justin Coulson, thanks for exploring. It's a big 164 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: issue this parent girl, but we appreciate you. 165 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: Having just an important one to address, and I, I 166 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: guess give some freedom. 167 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 2: To For more details on Justin's books, programs, and podcasts, 168 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: you can jump online to Happy Families dot com. That 169 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: are you and to find out how to have Justin 170 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 2: come and speak at your school, organization or event. You 171 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: can find more details at Justin Coulson dot com.