1 00:00:10,669 --> 00:00:14,869 Speaker 1: My hard podcasts, hear more kiss podcasts, playlists, and listen 2 00:00:14,909 --> 00:00:15,749 Speaker 1: live on the Free. 3 00:00:15,829 --> 00:00:18,549 Speaker 2: I heard a hate willin what he woulds. I know 4 00:00:18,549 --> 00:00:20,388 Speaker 2: there's a lot of fear about going over to the 5 00:00:20,469 --> 00:00:23,509 Speaker 2: US at the moment, particularly given that they're you know, 6 00:00:23,869 --> 00:00:26,549 Speaker 2: you don't need to be really all that far off 7 00:00:26,549 --> 00:00:29,469 Speaker 2: the scale to be getting pulled up, detained, sent back home. 8 00:00:29,509 --> 00:00:32,189 Speaker 2: And Alistair Kitchen, who's a thirty three year old writer 9 00:00:32,349 --> 00:00:36,229 Speaker 2: and photographer from Melbourne, was pulled from the line at customs, 10 00:00:36,269 --> 00:00:38,309 Speaker 2: taken to a back room. His phone was seized. He 11 00:00:38,349 --> 00:00:42,028 Speaker 2: was held at LAX for twelve hours, and the US 12 00:00:42,069 --> 00:00:44,228 Speaker 2: border agent said that was because he'd written on his 13 00:00:44,309 --> 00:00:48,709 Speaker 2: personal blog covering the pro Palestinian rallies at Columbia University 14 00:00:48,828 --> 00:00:50,389 Speaker 2: last year. So this is just something he's written in 15 00:00:50,429 --> 00:00:53,108 Speaker 2: his blog about something that happened at UNI last year. 16 00:00:53,549 --> 00:00:56,669 Speaker 2: His belongings and passport handed over two quondas, not given 17 00:00:56,709 --> 00:01:00,389 Speaker 2: back to him until he landed back in Melbourne. Again. 18 00:01:01,349 --> 00:01:03,549 Speaker 2: You have a look at this guy. Yeah, I certain 19 00:01:03,549 --> 00:01:05,789 Speaker 2: wouldn't pick him line up, and not in a bad way. Alistair, 20 00:01:05,869 --> 00:01:10,389 Speaker 2: who joins us right now, I'm glad to hear it. 21 00:01:10,469 --> 00:01:13,349 Speaker 1: Matte it's actually just on what we'll saying then, because 22 00:01:13,349 --> 00:01:17,589 Speaker 1: you're right for me, you just look like a normal guy. Alistair, 23 00:01:17,709 --> 00:01:21,029 Speaker 1: So how did they find you? And when did they 24 00:01:21,069 --> 00:01:23,349 Speaker 1: pick you out of the queue and drag you into 25 00:01:23,389 --> 00:01:23,749 Speaker 1: a room? 26 00:01:23,989 --> 00:01:26,348 Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, picked out of a lineup is the right idea. 27 00:01:26,429 --> 00:01:28,908 Speaker 3: Because I stepped off the plane and within a minute 28 00:01:29,349 --> 00:01:32,789 Speaker 3: many Australians will know that lion at Lax where you 29 00:01:32,789 --> 00:01:35,229 Speaker 3: go to get your pathport looked at. I didn't even 30 00:01:35,269 --> 00:01:37,949 Speaker 3: get into it. The voice came over the radio over 31 00:01:37,989 --> 00:01:40,389 Speaker 3: the intercom, they called me to the back. An officer 32 00:01:40,549 --> 00:01:43,709 Speaker 3: collected me and whisked me away into a back room 33 00:01:43,989 --> 00:01:47,349 Speaker 3: where this twelve hour detention and a series of interviews began. 34 00:01:48,029 --> 00:01:50,789 Speaker 1: So when you are picked out like that, all your 35 00:01:50,869 --> 00:01:52,789 Speaker 1: name goes over the speaking it straight into a room. 36 00:01:52,989 --> 00:01:55,029 Speaker 1: What's going through your head at that point? Alistair? 37 00:01:55,509 --> 00:01:58,869 Speaker 3: Well, look, I knew that things were getting dodgy, to 38 00:01:58,909 --> 00:02:01,189 Speaker 3: say the least in the US, so I had prepared 39 00:02:01,309 --> 00:02:05,109 Speaker 3: in advance for some type of superficial search of my phone. 40 00:02:05,189 --> 00:02:08,069 Speaker 3: You know, I'd scrubbed my social media, taken down anything 41 00:02:08,109 --> 00:02:11,589 Speaker 3: critical of Donald Trump. But that's not I prepared for 42 00:02:11,629 --> 00:02:13,989 Speaker 3: the wrong thing, and I want Australian to know that, 43 00:02:14,189 --> 00:02:17,389 Speaker 3: because they had before I had taken all these things down, 44 00:02:17,829 --> 00:02:20,629 Speaker 3: already read them in the weeks coming up to my 45 00:02:20,829 --> 00:02:25,869 Speaker 3: flight to the US. So when I realized that, look, fear, 46 00:02:26,029 --> 00:02:27,309 Speaker 3: fear is the right word for it. 47 00:02:27,629 --> 00:02:28,589 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, man. 48 00:02:28,709 --> 00:02:30,869 Speaker 1: So then what are the kinds of questions they're asking you? 49 00:02:30,909 --> 00:02:32,229 Speaker 1: So you just said, then you put in a room 50 00:02:32,269 --> 00:02:35,389 Speaker 1: for twelve hours. What questions are they asking you? And 51 00:02:35,429 --> 00:02:37,429 Speaker 1: what are they doing to you for twelve hours? 52 00:02:37,589 --> 00:02:39,589 Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you. As soon as they sat 53 00:02:39,629 --> 00:02:43,389 Speaker 3: me down and they'd got the prelude, the biographical questions 54 00:02:43,429 --> 00:02:45,389 Speaker 3: out of the way, as soon as they were ready 55 00:02:45,389 --> 00:02:49,069 Speaker 3: to interview me, the officer turned and said, look, mate, 56 00:02:49,189 --> 00:02:51,709 Speaker 3: we both know why you're here. Look, he didn't use 57 00:02:51,749 --> 00:02:53,309 Speaker 3: the word mate. He said, look, we both know why 58 00:02:53,349 --> 00:02:55,669 Speaker 3: you're here. And I said, I don't know why I'm here, 59 00:02:55,869 --> 00:02:58,709 Speaker 3: and he said it's because of what you've written about 60 00:02:58,749 --> 00:03:01,509 Speaker 3: the protest of Columbia. And then for the next thirty 61 00:03:01,589 --> 00:03:05,349 Speaker 3: to forty minutes he grilled me about my views on 62 00:03:05,429 --> 00:03:07,228 Speaker 3: the Israel Gaza conflict. 63 00:03:07,629 --> 00:03:11,349 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, do you, Alice? Did? How did they know that? 64 00:03:11,429 --> 00:03:14,709 Speaker 2: It sounds like there's been some prep involved for them 65 00:03:14,789 --> 00:03:19,309 Speaker 2: to know that you've done this, Like, are they scanning 66 00:03:20,429 --> 00:03:25,309 Speaker 2: passenger lists for planes that are inbound to source people 67 00:03:25,309 --> 00:03:26,869 Speaker 2: before they land? Yeah? 68 00:03:26,869 --> 00:03:29,149 Speaker 3: Look, I'm not sure. I've got two ideas, and both 69 00:03:29,149 --> 00:03:32,189 Speaker 3: of them scamming. The first is an Australian should be 70 00:03:32,269 --> 00:03:36,349 Speaker 3: aware of this, that the technological sophistication of customs and 71 00:03:36,349 --> 00:03:39,389 Speaker 3: border patrol seems to have got much better than it 72 00:03:39,469 --> 00:03:41,909 Speaker 3: used to be. It used to be pretty unsophisticated and 73 00:03:41,949 --> 00:03:43,869 Speaker 3: they'll just like scroll through your phone a little bit 74 00:03:43,909 --> 00:03:46,749 Speaker 3: if they felt like it. At this point, I'm worrying 75 00:03:46,869 --> 00:03:50,749 Speaker 3: that they are matching your s to application to a 76 00:03:50,909 --> 00:03:52,469 Speaker 3: search of your online presence. 77 00:03:52,669 --> 00:03:55,829 Speaker 2: Yeah right, okay, okay, that's my first fear. 78 00:03:56,109 --> 00:03:58,789 Speaker 3: My second fear. When we were at Columbia, it was 79 00:03:58,869 --> 00:04:03,469 Speaker 3: well reported that certain conservative political groups were giving the 80 00:04:03,629 --> 00:04:07,269 Speaker 3: names of students who they did not like to the government, 81 00:04:07,709 --> 00:04:10,069 Speaker 3: asking the government to follow up with them. And I'm 82 00:04:10,109 --> 00:04:11,909 Speaker 3: a little bit worried that I ended up on one 83 00:04:11,949 --> 00:04:12,509 Speaker 3: of those lists. 84 00:04:12,629 --> 00:04:15,229 Speaker 2: Yeah right, oh my yeah right. And then that flags 85 00:04:15,229 --> 00:04:17,308 Speaker 2: on the system when they say that you're flying in 86 00:04:17,428 --> 00:04:20,229 Speaker 2: and then they will detain you for twelve hours and 87 00:04:20,229 --> 00:04:24,909 Speaker 2: flying your home. So when you're in there, mate, when 88 00:04:24,949 --> 00:04:28,269 Speaker 2: you say like intimidation, what what level are we talking here? Like, 89 00:04:28,309 --> 00:04:30,149 Speaker 2: I'm kind of you know, I'm kind of envisioning a 90 00:04:30,829 --> 00:04:33,349 Speaker 2: bad nineties movie with a good cop bad cop routine 91 00:04:33,389 --> 00:04:35,429 Speaker 2: with the guys kind of like slamming on the table 92 00:04:36,269 --> 00:04:40,349 Speaker 2: his hands and threatening you with with you know, I 93 00:04:40,349 --> 00:04:42,149 Speaker 2: don't know, sending you back to your country. 94 00:04:42,749 --> 00:04:43,709 Speaker 1: Fine book, I reckon that. 95 00:04:45,709 --> 00:04:45,909 Speaker 3: Yeah. 96 00:04:45,988 --> 00:04:48,868 Speaker 2: Yeah, but was there any liked how hectic did it get? 97 00:04:49,349 --> 00:04:49,549 Speaker 1: Yeah? 98 00:04:49,629 --> 00:04:52,549 Speaker 3: Look, there are stories of that happening. There are stories 99 00:04:52,589 --> 00:04:55,829 Speaker 3: of yelling or swearing, of threatening that didn't happen to me. 100 00:04:56,189 --> 00:04:58,589 Speaker 3: And guys, look, I'm going to be perfectly honest. I 101 00:04:58,629 --> 00:05:01,429 Speaker 3: didn't need that to already be scared. Yeah, they were 102 00:05:01,509 --> 00:05:05,549 Speaker 3: perfectly scary enough to be in the back room in 103 00:05:05,589 --> 00:05:09,109 Speaker 3: a basically stateless position. You know where you are before 104 00:05:09,149 --> 00:05:12,189 Speaker 3: you've checked in your visa. You have less rights than 105 00:05:12,189 --> 00:05:12,669 Speaker 3: a criminal. 106 00:05:12,949 --> 00:05:14,949 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you're nowhere. 107 00:05:15,029 --> 00:05:17,869 Speaker 3: I recognize you can get getting shipped off too. System. 108 00:05:18,709 --> 00:05:20,149 Speaker 2: I was going to say a people getting shopped off 109 00:05:20,189 --> 00:05:25,428 Speaker 2: to El Salvador daily for that's right for nothing really, and. 110 00:05:25,229 --> 00:05:28,109 Speaker 1: Al Am I right in saying that they took your 111 00:05:28,229 --> 00:05:31,709 Speaker 1: phone off you and then demanded your passcode. 112 00:05:32,029 --> 00:05:33,669 Speaker 3: Yes, you are right to say it. And let me 113 00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:37,428 Speaker 3: say to anyone listening, when that happens to you, or 114 00:05:37,509 --> 00:05:39,789 Speaker 3: if and when it happens to you, you will be 115 00:05:39,829 --> 00:05:43,149 Speaker 3: given a choice hand over your past code or immediately 116 00:05:43,189 --> 00:05:45,549 Speaker 3: get back, get back on the plane and sent back home. 117 00:05:45,829 --> 00:05:48,349 Speaker 3: That was the first question I was given, Do you 118 00:05:48,389 --> 00:05:50,229 Speaker 3: want your passcode or do you want to go back home? 119 00:05:50,509 --> 00:05:52,389 Speaker 3: And I was still hopeful at that point that I 120 00:05:52,389 --> 00:05:53,549 Speaker 3: would get into the US. 121 00:05:53,949 --> 00:05:54,509 Speaker 1: Yeah. 122 00:05:54,589 --> 00:05:57,229 Speaker 3: I was wrong to be hopeful, and I was wrong 123 00:05:57,309 --> 00:05:59,988 Speaker 3: to give them my passcode. If you're in that situation, 124 00:06:00,589 --> 00:06:03,429 Speaker 3: please get on the plane. I don't care if it's 125 00:06:03,429 --> 00:06:06,469 Speaker 3: another fifteen hours back in Melbourne, because they are never 126 00:06:06,629 --> 00:06:08,989 Speaker 3: going to let you in by the time you to 127 00:06:08,988 --> 00:06:09,829 Speaker 3: search your phone. 128 00:06:09,988 --> 00:06:11,589 Speaker 2: Okay, that's great advice. 129 00:06:11,829 --> 00:06:14,749 Speaker 1: Did you meet anyone else who was being detained alistair 130 00:06:14,909 --> 00:06:16,589 Speaker 1: with you at that time as well? 131 00:06:16,949 --> 00:06:19,709 Speaker 3: Yeah, well we were put into this detention holding pen. 132 00:06:20,189 --> 00:06:22,029 Speaker 3: The thing is we're not allowed to talk to each other. 133 00:06:22,589 --> 00:06:25,269 Speaker 3: I was the only man. The women were separated by 134 00:06:25,309 --> 00:06:28,629 Speaker 3: a wall. I could see them occasionally. There were five 135 00:06:28,669 --> 00:06:32,589 Speaker 3: of them, three women from Latin America, two women from China, 136 00:06:32,669 --> 00:06:34,829 Speaker 3: and when I stepped in the door, one of them 137 00:06:34,949 --> 00:06:39,509 Speaker 3: was distraught, asking the guard who was guarding us for 138 00:06:39,669 --> 00:06:42,149 Speaker 3: any information at all, and he turned to her and 139 00:06:42,229 --> 00:06:45,069 Speaker 3: he says, I've got no information to give you. There's 140 00:06:45,109 --> 00:06:47,828 Speaker 3: none coming. You should not worry about it. That woman 141 00:06:47,869 --> 00:06:50,389 Speaker 3: over there has been here for four and a half 142 00:06:50,429 --> 00:06:55,308 Speaker 3: days complaining. And when I heard that, Guys, let me 143 00:06:55,349 --> 00:06:57,029 Speaker 3: tell you, my heart sank. 144 00:06:57,229 --> 00:06:59,869 Speaker 2: Woh man, that's that is really scary. 145 00:07:00,149 --> 00:07:02,789 Speaker 1: He being fed and like anything like that. 146 00:07:02,909 --> 00:07:04,869 Speaker 3: Yes, I can tell you. There's cup noodles. 147 00:07:04,909 --> 00:07:05,109 Speaker 1: There. 148 00:07:06,069 --> 00:07:09,109 Speaker 3: There's cup noodles. So if you're into that, need as 149 00:07:09,149 --> 00:07:11,789 Speaker 3: many as you want. And they're very proud that they're 150 00:07:11,789 --> 00:07:13,229 Speaker 3: giving it to your free. 151 00:07:12,909 --> 00:07:16,309 Speaker 2: I'm sure they are. Hey, Aliceair, are you scared about 152 00:07:16,309 --> 00:07:18,469 Speaker 2: talking like is it? Or have you just kind of 153 00:07:18,829 --> 00:07:21,469 Speaker 2: written off a trip to America for the duration of 154 00:07:21,509 --> 00:07:22,909 Speaker 2: the Trump administration. 155 00:07:23,389 --> 00:07:25,749 Speaker 3: I've certainly written off, but I'll tell you that I 156 00:07:25,789 --> 00:07:30,229 Speaker 3: am pretty terrified for two reasons. One, the chance that 157 00:07:30,229 --> 00:07:33,149 Speaker 3: they implement a lifetime ban as a reprisal for me 158 00:07:33,229 --> 00:07:36,869 Speaker 3: talking to guys like you. The second they plugged in 159 00:07:37,029 --> 00:07:39,989 Speaker 3: and downloaded the entire contents of my phone. And look, 160 00:07:40,269 --> 00:07:43,149 Speaker 3: as any guy or girl will know, there's always stuff 161 00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:46,469 Speaker 3: on your phone you don't want getting out there, and frankly, 162 00:07:46,549 --> 00:07:49,909 Speaker 3: I don't trust them to release that stuff. When I 163 00:07:49,949 --> 00:07:51,709 Speaker 3: get off the phone with you guys, I'm buying a 164 00:07:51,789 --> 00:07:53,869 Speaker 3: uphane because who knows what they've downloaded. 165 00:07:56,709 --> 00:07:59,869 Speaker 1: That is totally wild or like they could like doctor 166 00:07:59,949 --> 00:08:02,589 Speaker 1: images in your photo gallery to make it look like nudes. 167 00:08:02,829 --> 00:08:04,389 Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying that just in case they 168 00:08:04,389 --> 00:08:06,869 Speaker 1: ever get my phone and find some nudes on there 169 00:08:07,349 --> 00:08:08,429 Speaker 1: is that is crazy. 170 00:08:08,709 --> 00:08:11,669 Speaker 2: I don't think they're doing that, but either way, don't 171 00:08:11,669 --> 00:08:19,189 Speaker 2: release my nudes. Alice Deair, that is really wild man. Firstly, 172 00:08:19,429 --> 00:08:23,589 Speaker 2: really sorry that happened to you. Yeah, that sucks, but 173 00:08:24,349 --> 00:08:28,229 Speaker 2: thank you for joining us. And yeah, a warning shot 174 00:08:28,269 --> 00:08:30,349 Speaker 2: for everyone out there that it's obviously I know we 175 00:08:30,349 --> 00:08:31,909 Speaker 2: were seeing it on the news and whatnot, but it's 176 00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:34,829 Speaker 2: obviously a very different place from from what it has been. 177 00:08:35,549 --> 00:08:37,749 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a different country to the one we were 178 00:08:37,789 --> 00:08:38,588 Speaker 3: brought up to believe it. 179 00:08:39,108 --> 00:08:42,508 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, mate, thanks for joining us here on William Woody. 180 00:08:42,628 --> 00:08:48,269 Speaker 2: Good luck with the phone buying mate, Yeah wow, Alistair 181 00:08:48,348 --> 00:08:51,989 Speaker 2: Kitchen there, it's been detained at lax shipped home for 182 00:08:52,069 --> 00:08:55,069 Speaker 2: writing an article about Palestine years ago on his personal 183 00:08:55,108 --> 00:08:59,428 Speaker 2: blog wild stuff there. Make sure you are dotting your eyes, 184 00:08:59,468 --> 00:09:02,069 Speaker 2: crossing your t before you go to the US these days. 185 00:09:01,868 --> 00:09:03,909 Speaker 1: And you can't even wipe your phone now, like it's done. 186 00:09:03,988 --> 00:09:05,708 Speaker 2: You're worried about the nudes, mate, I know you are. 187 00:09:06,108 --> 00:09:07,268 Speaker 2: It's Will and Woody kis