1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Now we do know that the latest Australian Wastewater report's 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: been released and I think we're all wondering exactly what 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: it sees about the Northern Territory. Now joining me on 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: the line to tell us a little bit more is 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: the ace IC Principal Advisor of Drugs, Shane Nielsen. 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Shane, Hi, how are you very well? 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Now? For those out there wondering what the ACIC stands for, 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: it is the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission. 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: Shane. 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: What do these latest wastewater results really show us about 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. 12 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 3: Well, it's an interesting picture and also a mixed picture. 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: What it shows. For example, and this has been the 14 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: case for some time now that in Darwin and regional 15 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 3: areas of the territory more alcohol and nicotine is consumed 16 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 3: than anywhere else in the country. And you know that's 17 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: been the case for some time now. But there's also 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 3: so been a concerning increase in consumption of methyl and fetamine, right, 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 3: and that's been happening for some time now, and certainly 20 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: in the case of Darwin since June twenty twenty, and 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 3: also in regional areas since August twenty twenty To increase 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 3: your consumption of methyline fatamine is never a good thing. 23 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: What kind of increase are we talking here? Is it? 24 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 2: And you know, how are you able to actually detect that? 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: Through some clever science. The wastewater is monitored every two 26 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 3: months in Darwin and every four months in regional areas, 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: and essentially when the substance is detected, they're able to 28 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: work out the concentration and that tells you how much 29 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: has been consumed in the population. And so that's why 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 3: we've got a fairly reliable understand standing of levels of 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 3: use yep. 32 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: And does it give you sort of you know, does 33 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: it give you more of an idea as well about 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: the types of suburbs or is it just more broadly 35 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: like the Darwin area or Palmerston and then you know, 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: heading out more regional. 37 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: Obviously, with the way that. 38 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: We do the waste water analysis, it gives you an 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 3: idea within the population as opposed to drilling down to 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: do small local areas. We can determine, for example, a 41 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: regional city or town, but in terms of Darwin itself 42 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 3: at the moment, the way we do it, we don't 43 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 3: break it down to local areas. 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's also obviously showing us that you 45 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: know that when it comes to our alcohol and nicotine consumption, 46 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: it's really quite high. 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: Yes it is. It's well above the national average for 48 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 3: both of the substances, both within Darwin and in regional 49 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 3: more than territory and Shane. 50 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: Do we have a situation here with these types of results. 51 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: Does it help the government or does it help our 52 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,839 Speaker 1: police force or sort of help in any way when 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: it comes to trying to battle some of these issues. 54 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: Very much. So we share the information openly with the 55 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: police and also health agencies and other agencies which respond 56 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: to drug problems, and we give them as much detail 57 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 3: as we can about the levels of consumption in particular areas, 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: and then we work with them in terms of targeting 59 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 3: people who are supplying the community. But also what we 60 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: do is then from the health point of view, those 61 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: agencies also can look at treatment and other agencies can 62 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: look at education to try to stop people taking the drugs. 63 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: So when it comes to just to go back to 64 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: the methane fishermine, when it comes to the methane fetamine, 65 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: obviously we've the increase in Darwin. 66 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: Have we also seen an increase in other parts of 67 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: the territory. 68 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 3: Yes, certainly regional areas as well, and you know you 69 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 3: can trace it back to the middle of twenty twenty. 70 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, right. 71 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: I find that quite fascinating, and you know, it is 72 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: something we very often obviously see police statements come out 73 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: about people being arrested when it comes to you know, 74 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: drugs and dealing drugs and supplying drugs. But then to 75 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: actually see that evidence of a greater use of drugs 76 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: within our wastewater system, or you know, the evidence of 77 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: it in the wastewater, it makes you wonder sort of, 78 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, how broadly some of these drugs are being 79 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: used and some of us don't even realize. 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: I think that's the issue, you know, And this is 81 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: why we release the reports publicly every four months, because 82 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 3: then we can have the conversation with everyone who's got 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: an interest in this. 84 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: And I know that that. 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: Obviously, the ACIC has described methamphetamine or ice use as 86 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: a wicked problem because it is it was both imported 87 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: and made here. 88 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 2: Is that part of. 89 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: The problem as well that you know, I know, with 90 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: some drugs, obviously you see news reports that it's being 91 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: imported from other places around the world, but with something 92 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: like ice that really are the reality is that there's 93 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: people using it in regional parts of Australia as well 94 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: because it's something that they're easily able to get their 95 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: hands on. 96 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: That is precisely the problem with methylne fatamine. It is 97 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: that mix. Like we think that up to or around 98 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 3: about thirty percent of the methylne fatamine that's consumed in 99 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 3: this country is made here, and that makes it so 100 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: much more difficult, you know, when you mix the domestic 101 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: manufacture with what is imported. 102 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: Any other interesting you know, pieces of information that you're 103 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: able to sort of gleam about the Northern Territory from 104 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: that way. 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 2: Water Well, the other. 106 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: Thing that was quite interesting was in relation to cannabis. 107 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 3: What we found there was regional areas of the Northern 108 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 3: Territory were totally different to what was happening in Darwin. Like, 109 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 3: cannabis in regional areas of the Northern Territory was at 110 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: a reasonably constant level, But what we found in Darwin 111 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: was there were huge variations in consumption. As recently as 112 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 3: February of this year there was a record low of 113 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: consumption and then in June of this year there was 114 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 3: a record high consumption. So there are large variations in 115 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 3: the cannabis market in Darwin in particular, and that's something 116 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 3: that will probably look to discuss with the Northern Territory 117 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: Police to see if they can provide us with some 118 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: understanding around why that might be. 119 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting stuff and you know, interesting to 120 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: see the different times of. 121 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 2: The year that there's that change. 122 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: Yes, there is, and this is something that we will 123 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 3: explore further. 124 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: Well, Shane, I really appreciate your time this morning and 125 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: talking us through some of the information and you know, 126 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: well gleaming a bit of light I think you'd say 127 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: onto some of the drug use as well that obviously 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: is happening in the Northern Territory that for many of 129 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: us we're unaware of. 130 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 3: Thanks a lot, Cattie, it's really enjoy talking. 131 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: Thank you Shane Nielsen, the ac I S principal advisor there, 132 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission's principal advisor when it comes 133 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: to drugs and really interesting stuff. The Australian Wastewater Report 134 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: really showing that the Northern Territory has got the highest 135 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: average consumption of alcohol and nicotine in the country. But 136 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: then when you talk about the use of the myth 137 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: and fetamine drug. You know, pretty ordinary really, I think 138 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: you'd have to say to find that here in the territory, 139 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: we're seeing that increase