Speaker 1: Ashton, the Lovely, the Gorgeous Victoria Devine. She is best
Speaker 1: known as the host of the wildly successful podcast She's
Speaker 1: on the Money, which we actually filled in on a
Speaker 1: number of months ago.
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the episode I got flack for not
Speaker 2: throwing my kids' birthday parties.
Speaker 1: Yes correct.
Speaker 2: She's also the founder of Zella Money, a mortgage broking business,
Speaker 2: and the author of several books Matthew, that's right, I
Speaker 2: said several, which includes her most recent cover Business Bible.
Speaker 1: But most importantly, she is the mom of eight month
Speaker 1: old Harvey.
Speaker 2: Yes, Victoria shares her experience of what led up to
Speaker 2: her pregnancy with a little boy that includes two miscarriages
Speaker 2: along the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. She gives us a glimpse into what it must
Speaker 1: feel like for the wonderful woman who have to go
Speaker 1: through child loss.
Speaker 2: She also shares a list of requirements given to her
Speaker 2: visitors wanting to meet her newborn in hospital.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming which should ruffle one or two feathers out there,
Speaker 1: ash As a finance expert, Victoria also shares her thoughts
Speaker 1: on two big parenting money questions. Shall we get into
Speaker 1: a big boy apps?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mum.
Speaker 1: I am Maddie, J I'm.
Speaker 3: Ash and I am Victoria.
Speaker 1: And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
Speaker 1: the good, it is.
Speaker 2: The bad and the relatable.
Speaker 1: And we always say no advice. However, Victoria, if there's
Speaker 1: anyone who is ever going to give any type of
Speaker 1: advice on this podcast, I believe it would be you.
Speaker 3: Thank but like more financial advice.
Speaker 2: Everything we're hoping for first and.
Speaker 3: Foremost advice is stickle. You guys are brave.
Speaker 1: Mainly because sometimes every now and then we'll talk about
Speaker 1: something that's medical and we always just say, look, we're
Speaker 1: not the experts. We'll get the diagnosis, the name, everything
Speaker 1: completely wrong. So just if anyone is PA's.
Speaker 3: With a grain of salt and pretend that we're at
Speaker 3: the pub having a chat. Take it like that.
Speaker 2: One time we did like we were trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how to do a pregnancy test. I was like,
Speaker 2: don't you just do it?
Speaker 1: Well? We weren't sure if it was.
Speaker 2: Like different sorts of ways.
Speaker 1: We thought it might be like a tea bag scenario
Speaker 1: in the toilet bowl once you pee the to anyway,
Speaker 1: it all, Victoria, we would like to know, yes, Ash
Speaker 1: and I were talking about what a younger Victoria would
Speaker 1: have been like, and we I think we both agreed
Speaker 1: that you would have been someone who I think would
Speaker 1: have been school captain.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't get due, let's go back
Speaker 3: and get it. I didn't. I didn't, but you won't
Speaker 3: be surprised to you that my boyfriend at the time did.
Speaker 3: It was a thing. I was so envious.
Speaker 2: You're dumping.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean at some point I did. At some
Speaker 3: point I did. But yeah, younger Victoria, she do you
Speaker 3: know what, She's exactly what you thought she was. Wow,
Speaker 3: she's exactly like she was debating team captain. I did athletics, like,
Speaker 3: what's my athletics? Oh what, it's obviously like the Rock
Speaker 3: of Dedford for maths.
Speaker 1: I thought it would be like.
Speaker 2: And then someone's like, and.
Speaker 3: You just give it. I would die under that.
Speaker 2: I thought that's what it was like.
Speaker 3: I know, she's she's exactly what you thought she would be.
Speaker 1: You're someone to me who just exudes confidence.
Speaker 3: That's very kind because it's not true. It's not true.
Speaker 1: It is it's an athletics.
Speaker 3: It's the athletics. It's the fake it till you make
Speaker 3: it vibe I'm an.
Speaker 1: Anxious I don't believe you at all.
Speaker 3: You say that, but like my anti anxiety medication.
Speaker 2: Mix it with a coffee, And did you trip up
Speaker 2: at all? Did you get any into any trouble?
Speaker 1: Surely?
Speaker 2: Do you know what?
Speaker 3: I was a goody two shoes honestly, Like I like
Speaker 3: my parents always like you were a goody two shoes.
Speaker 3: Your sister, on the other hand, like she made for it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I won't go on and on because I
Speaker 3: don't know how much she would like that. But we
Speaker 3: had to call the police. My dad, my own dad
Speaker 3: called the police to my own sister's sixteenth birthday.
Speaker 1: Wow, because why.
Speaker 3: They were teenagers jumping over the back fence project X
Speaker 3: sort of yeah, like just very very interesting. My my
Speaker 3: sister had said to my parents, Oh, it's my sixteenth birthday,
Speaker 3: can we just have like a barbecue at home? And Dad,
Speaker 3: you like do a barbecue? And my was like, awesome, great,
Speaker 3: Like you're going to invite some friends and Alix. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Mom's like do you want to send out invites? ALEX
Speaker 3: just like nah, like send out in mites and.
Speaker 2: Then word of mouth people were then.
Speaker 3: Like the cops came and scored people out of the house.
Speaker 3: My parents had to replace the carvet in the front room.
Speaker 1: Like, holy shit, were you at home at the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great party, making me look so good, Alex.
Speaker 1: Did you know then from an early age what you
Speaker 1: wanted to be when you grew up?
Speaker 3: No, No, I thought when I feel like I put
Speaker 3: a lot of pressure on myself because I am very academic,
Speaker 3: Like I love a study and that's not something that
Speaker 3: lots of people can resonate with, Like I just love learning.
Speaker 3: I also have ADHD. I have been diagnosed since I
Speaker 3: was like eighteen. I think I got diagnosed in Medica then. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I used to go but I used to be
Speaker 3: so embarrassed of it, like I would lie through my teeth,
Speaker 3: Like I used to take my medication, pop it out
Speaker 3: of all of the medication things and put it in
Speaker 3: a panidole container in my handbag because I was so
Speaker 3: scared that someone would see that I was taking dex
Speaker 3: hampetter meane and be like, she's crazy, She's crazy.
Speaker 1: How does it feel now that all these diagnoses.
Speaker 3: You believed believed because you know, as somebody with ADHD,
Speaker 3: you like see it in other people and you're like
Speaker 3: you're a bit the same. Hey, like you kind of
Speaker 3: look at someone and go I see a lot of
Speaker 3: me and you I get it, and then they go
Speaker 3: I've got ADHD and I'm like, whoa, I'm so surprised.
Speaker 2: I started so then I was like, this is just
Speaker 2: gonna take too long.
Speaker 3: Unless you're really struggling, like the diagnosis process nowadays really arduous.
Speaker 3: So anyway, loved studying and I thought I wanted to
Speaker 3: be a doctor and then decided that's probably not for me.
Speaker 3: Wanted to do psychology. How was it not for you
Speaker 3: to think the part where like blood.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm not a doctor.
Speaker 1: Either, that's like a mechanic.
Speaker 3: And then I went to psychology, did psychology, got into
Speaker 3: like a child psychology like internship, and this was in
Speaker 3: the last year of my degree before honest, and I
Speaker 3: thought this is gonna be great, like I have done it,
Speaker 3: and I was so proud of myself because that was
Speaker 3: like one of the hardest internships to secure. I love
Speaker 3: a flex Oh got the best one, thank you mum. Anyway,
Speaker 3: got that and I hated it. After two weeks, I
Speaker 3: was like crying, I hate it. Like the idea that
Speaker 3: you can'tn't pick up kids and take them home and
Speaker 3: take them out of their situation. I was like, hold on,
Speaker 3: you're telling me that psychology is about helping people deal
Speaker 3: with their situations, not fixing it. Like I'm a fixer,
Speaker 3: Like I'm that person that you come to for advice,
Speaker 3: and I'll be like, all right, whether you want this
Speaker 3: or not, this is.
Speaker 2: What you need to do.
Speaker 3: And then I'm not offended if you don't do it.
Speaker 3: I get it, but I'm always going to go into
Speaker 3: solution mode. So didn't like that. Had a midlife crisis
Speaker 3: during university and I was like, where's my career going?
Speaker 3: And realized through some careers counseling at UNI that there
Speaker 3: was this thing called organizational psychology, which is the science
Speaker 3: of people at work. So you could do psychology but
Speaker 3: for like CEOs and leaders and help them develop into
Speaker 3: better leaders and manage people properly. And I thought kind
Speaker 3: of like a life coach kind of, but like you
Speaker 3: actually have a degree, you don't just put it in
Speaker 3: your bio. I'm going to put it in my BioPen
Speaker 3: it's working anyway. Did that for a while and started
Speaker 3: to learn about finance, got myself into a whole heap
Speaker 3: of debt and needed to work that out, and realized
Speaker 3: that there was a lot of power in studies of
Speaker 3: Oh I wish I could be like, oh, yeah, of course,
Speaker 3: it was like student debt. No, I bought a car
Speaker 3: and then I went to France and then I went
Speaker 3: all around Europe and then I had a really good wardrobe,
Speaker 3: so many nice shoes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little experience too, though.
Speaker 3: Oh live love laugh. But a credit card, Oh no,
Speaker 3: go hard, I got a person alone. Yeah. So my
Speaker 3: dad's an accountant, and I hid that from him.
Speaker 2: Obviously he would have seen the signs though. Yeah, there
Speaker 2: was to get this car from a found. I come
Speaker 2: here in France and this car is still here, and
Speaker 2: you've got a brand new wardrobe full of shoes. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I came home from France with forty thousand dollars worth
Speaker 3: of personal debt and realize.
Speaker 1: You're like Will and you assist did have another birthday party.
Speaker 3: I was like, I probably should do something about it,
Speaker 3: but for a long time buried my head in the sand.
Speaker 3: I hated the idea of it. It was really embarrassed
Speaker 3: of it, Like you don't want to tell your mates,
Speaker 3: and at the time, I felt a lot of pressure
Speaker 3: because I had gone into a very corporate role, so
Speaker 3: done an organizational psyche it on as you went into
Speaker 3: this like consultant role. It wasn't a grad role. And
Speaker 3: I was like in with all these like big dog
Speaker 3: forty year olds who had powersuits and like were looking
Speaker 3: really good, and I'm like, they've got their lives together,
Speaker 3: Like I'm going to have my life together. And in
Speaker 3: my head it was age that gave you life experience.
Speaker 3: It was age that helped you get your finances sorted,
Speaker 3: not the suit. No, it turns out no. But I
Speaker 3: was just like, oh, like i can do whatever I
Speaker 3: want because one day I'm going to be forty in
Speaker 3: have a house and all of those things because it
Speaker 3: just happens, right.
Speaker 2: That's very true. You've just triggered something there for me
Speaker 2: where it's like I remember thinking, like when I was younger,
Speaker 2: that you're like, yeah, i'll have it sort of when
Speaker 2: i'm older.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll sort it when i'm older. I'll do it
Speaker 3: when i'm older. And it turns out none of these
Speaker 3: people had shit together. And I was like learning more
Speaker 3: about you know, them and their personal lives and like,
Speaker 3: as a consultant, you travel a lot, so we're like
Speaker 3: in lots of hotels and going out for like dinners
Speaker 3: and stuff, and they'd be talking about their divorces that
Speaker 3: be talking about, you know, not being able to buy houses.
Speaker 3: And I remember being like, oh, I thought that when
Speaker 3: you got to forty five, it was like a rite
Speaker 3: a passage, you owned a property, you work for one
Speaker 3: of the Big four. What are you talking about? Like
Speaker 3: it just the math wasn't mathing in my head, and
Speaker 3: I realized I probably should sort my own finances out
Speaker 3: instead of just paying the minimum repayment on my personal loan.
Speaker 3: So started to look into that and just found a
Speaker 3: passion because I realized the power that taking control of
Speaker 3: your finances could have. It was making me feel better,
Speaker 3: it made the people around me feel better. I was
Speaker 3: like going to brunch with my girlfriends being like, okay,
Speaker 3: so if you looked at your super because like, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this, but if you
Speaker 3: don't take control of this now, it's going to cost
Speaker 3: you like seventy thousand dollars worth of fees over the
Speaker 3: long term. And like my friend's like, no, I didn't
Speaker 3: know exactly my account.
Speaker 1: She like, just drink the bloody Mary.
Speaker 3: So yeah, ended up loving finance and kind of one
Speaker 3: thing led to another and I realized maybe that's where
Speaker 3: I should be and sectioned on in.
Speaker 1: I do have to congratulate you for what you've built.
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it an empire.
Speaker 3: Thank you. It doesn't feel like an empire. It feels
Speaker 3: like a ship show. But you were just.
Speaker 1: Talking about some of your staff and I'm like, it's
Speaker 1: it's very impressive.
Speaker 3: And do you know what the one stuff you've got
Speaker 3: I wanted it first.
Speaker 2: I can say what you think about it.
Speaker 1: I like you guys, so you could keep her perfect
Speaker 1: during this time when you are building your business. What
Speaker 1: was your thought process in regards to having kids.
Speaker 3: I when I was really young, I'm very maternal, Like,
Speaker 3: I love kids. If you've got babies, please show me
Speaker 3: your pictures. Like I was always maternal, but I just
Speaker 3: wanted to look to your right, pretty.
Speaker 2: He's oldest child.
Speaker 3: No, I just I wanted kids. I just didn't know
Speaker 3: how that was going to happen. And that was one
Speaker 3: of the things that was starting to stress me out.
Speaker 3: So at the same time as being in personal debt,
Speaker 3: I just come out of a really long term relationship
Speaker 3: because I was in a relationship from when I was
Speaker 3: fourteen to twenty two with the.
Speaker 2: Guy who got ducks.
Speaker 3: We don't like, yeah, I mean so lovely, which is
Speaker 3: so annoying. Isn't that annoying when you're like, yeah, is
Speaker 3: your exit?
Speaker 2: No, he also got ducks.
Speaker 3: He's really smart. So got out of that and was
Speaker 3: just like finding my feet and was like, you know
Speaker 3: when you're twenty two and you're just like, it's never
Speaker 3: going to happen for me, Like you're single and you
Speaker 3: think you're never going to meet the love of your
Speaker 3: life because you've left it too late, like dumb, But
Speaker 3: do you know what I mean, it's so dumb. You're
Speaker 3: just like, what is going on? Anyway? I think I was, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: boys have a lot of a different mentality.
Speaker 2: Was on a TV show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I remember being twenty eight and kind of
Speaker 1: thinking like the thought of, hey, maybe it won't happen.
Speaker 1: Does pop in every now and then?
Speaker 3: And oh is this going to work out? They're really expensive,
Speaker 3: that's a lot of commitment. Like I love kids, but
Speaker 3: like all these people are looking about getting up at
Speaker 3: five am, and I'm not a morning person is it like,
Speaker 3: and they're dumb things that now I look back and
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's so dumb that I was.
Speaker 2: It's definitely like the like your young mind thinking, like.
Speaker 3: You just extrapolate out catastrophe anyway, So I really wanted kids,
Speaker 3: but I knew I was really purposeful. This is going
Speaker 3: to sound so lame, and I'm so happy to share it.
Speaker 3: But like when I was dating, I would often like
Speaker 3: go home to my housemate, who was my best friend
Speaker 3: still is my best friend. We've had kids at the
Speaker 3: same time. It's the best and be like, oh no,
Speaker 3: you would your shit dad.
Speaker 1: Like wow, n or some of those red flags that
Speaker 1: will make you think they'd be a.
Speaker 3: Bad really irresponsive, like really self centered, like oh just
Speaker 3: you know those things where you're just like I know
Speaker 3: that you like really underlying misogyny, like just thinking that
Speaker 3: there are gender roles, but you're dating on Tinder, so
Speaker 3: you're gonna get like I ended up meeting my husband
Speaker 3: on Tinder, so it's not all bad, but yeah, I
Speaker 3: just remember being like, red.
Speaker 1: Flag, do you remember the green flags?
Speaker 3: When my husband whipped out photos of his friend's kids
Speaker 3: and oh yeah, on the weekend, I was like look
Speaker 3: how cute she and I was like okay. And then
Speaker 3: as time went on, he got nieces and nephews, and
Speaker 3: seeing him with his nieces and nephews, I.
Speaker 2: Was like, can we talk about your husband you met
Speaker 2: on Tinder? We did classic modern love story. Just give
Speaker 2: us a little insight to how that went down.
Speaker 3: So I've got dating rules so on Tinder. I thought
Speaker 3: you guys would like this on Tinder, and I will
Speaker 3: tell anybody who will listen. Everybody complains, They're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I never meet the right person online dating because it's
Speaker 3: so hard, And I'm like, it's because you're not like
Speaker 3: putting some boundaries in place. I would only go on
Speaker 3: dates on Monday or Tuesday nights because I'd say we
Speaker 3: can grab a drink after work, because it gives me
Speaker 3: the ability to like have a drink with them. We
Speaker 3: all know that I don't mind turning up to work hungover,
Speaker 3: so like, if it goes well, I can have a
Speaker 3: few glasses and some dinner with you and have a
Speaker 3: nice evening on a Monday. But if it doesn't, I
Speaker 3: can be like, I've got work really early, so I
Speaker 3: have to go home and cut it early. Also, the
Speaker 3: type of person that's willing to go on a Monday date.
Speaker 3: They know it's not like a Friday night where they
Speaker 3: can call you up and be like you up, Like,
Speaker 3: it's not like if you're willing to go on a
Speaker 3: Monday date with me, Like you knew it was a
Speaker 3: glass of wine after work, Like the expectations have been
Speaker 3: set without me having to articulate them. And so we
Speaker 3: did that. My husband and I ended up having a
Speaker 3: whole bottle of wine that night and basically seeing each
Speaker 3: other every single night for the rest of our lives.
Speaker 1: Wow, so Wednesday night's off the cards.
Speaker 3: Oh do you know what Wednesdays is?
Speaker 2: Goodnight?
Speaker 3: Well, in my head, especially because when I first started
Speaker 3: online dating, I'd come out of this long term relationship,
Speaker 3: and I found that social balance of like dating plus
Speaker 3: maintaining my friendship groups, and like, if I was going
Speaker 3: on a date on a Friday night, I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm not going out with the girls. They're getting espressos
Speaker 3: after work, And like I found that by saying, do
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm only going to on first date?
Speaker 3: So not all dates, but first dates on Mondays or Tuesdays.
Speaker 3: That means that the weekends are for the girls, I
Speaker 3: still have my life balance that I want. My friends
Speaker 3: aren't being left behind, and it turns out that I
Speaker 3: did meet the love of my life, So like, that's
Speaker 3: pretty slight, it's pretty good.
Speaker 1: With there any other rules that we should be aware of?
Speaker 3: No, just like the Monday night setting some expectations, Like
Speaker 3: I'm a bit of a rules girl, as you guys know.
Speaker 1: We will get into some more rules a little bit later.
Speaker 1: Was was there any kind of checklist that you wanted
Speaker 1: to follow? Because I feel like you are and I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't. Not with dating, oh my.
Speaker 1: Without with having kids though, because people are often.
Speaker 3: Things I wanted to do before.
Speaker 1: I'm also like the question of how do I know
Speaker 1: when I'm ready?
Speaker 3: So my husband was ready the year that we met,
Speaker 3: Like he would have had kids, I think, and been
Speaker 3: very happy to have kids. I mean, we probably would
Speaker 3: have wanted to work out a few like semantic things.
Speaker 3: But I was the one who was like, I really
Speaker 3: want to get my businesses into a place where I
Speaker 3: could walk away comfortably. Like if we had gone back
Speaker 3: three or four years and I had a baby, my
Speaker 3: businesses would have suffered way too much, Like they would
Speaker 3: have absolutely gone to the curb, and I knew that
Speaker 3: when Steve and I were getting married, we kind of
Speaker 3: had you always plan it, right, You're like, I'm going
Speaker 3: to get married, We're going to do this, We're going
Speaker 3: to do that, because like I knew that we were
Speaker 3: going to get engaged, like and I know that that's
Speaker 3: not that romantic. It was a surprise. I didn't know
Speaker 3: when where, but like we'd spoken about marriage, so obviously
Speaker 3: that was a stead it's going to happen, and like,
Speaker 3: I'm not letting my husband spend that much on a
Speaker 3: ring without I was doing some budgeting, like it's so
Speaker 3: there was a lot that I wanted to do. And
Speaker 3: in fact, I sold my financial advice business because I
Speaker 3: knew that I couldn't have so many plates spinning by
Speaker 3: the time that I wanted to have kids. So I
Speaker 3: decided to focus on my mortgage breaking business and my
Speaker 3: podcast and then give away that financial advice business. So
Speaker 3: in September twenty twenty two, I sold that. In November
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, I got married, and the plan was
Speaker 3: to have babies after that.
Speaker 2: So did you want to have like certain financial goals
Speaker 2: before you started to try to have kids.
Speaker 3: I definitely wanted to make sure that we had a
Speaker 3: solid ground. In my head, I wanted to own property.
Speaker 3: It was just something that was financially achievable for my
Speaker 3: husband and I. But I think for me that was
Speaker 3: just because I wanted financial security. I also own a
Speaker 3: mortgage breaking business, and I know that, don't you.
Speaker 2: Own my own soul. I was kindergarten, primary school and.
Speaker 3: Then my mortgage breaking business. Through that, I know that
Speaker 3: to get alone with dependence is going to drop your
Speaker 3: borering capacity. So I was like, I kind of want
Speaker 3: to secure that before I have all these dependents.
Speaker 2: That's good advice, that's solid.
Speaker 3: I meant that I could borrow more money and get
Speaker 3: the house that.
Speaker 2: Can it gives your kids back and then go, oh.
Speaker 3: No, sorry the kids didn't come up in the meeting
Speaker 3: with the broker.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that.
Speaker 3: So I knew I wanted to do that. But for me,
Speaker 3: I also wanted to have a pretty healthy emergency fund
Speaker 3: because you never know what's going to happen, and kids
Speaker 3: are expensive, and birth is expensive or it can be
Speaker 3: quite expensive, and you just never know. And like for me,
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure whether I would take you know, two
Speaker 3: weeks of maternity leave. Or I'd fall in love with
Speaker 3: this stay at home monthing and need to take twelve months.
Speaker 3: So we really had to plan financially to go with
Speaker 3: this situation. Work with that because, as you guys know,
Speaker 3: you could plan and then the baby comes near like
Speaker 3: this is nothing lack we expected.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah it's not.
Speaker 3: This isn't what the box said.
Speaker 2: There's also like this thing thing online about how people
Speaker 2: were saying, this is how much it costs to have
Speaker 2: a baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got savaged, like I got sad. So I
Speaker 3: did a podcast on my experience, and I track everything.
Speaker 3: You guys know, I had a spreadsheet you'd like to know.
Speaker 3: I have a line item of how much I spent
Speaker 3: on Gaviscon while I was pregnant. How much it was
Speaker 3: like three hundred and eighty something. Yeah, there was a
Speaker 3: lot of Gaviscon. But that's fine for heartburn. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a heartburn and refox.
Speaker 1: Please tell me they ended up sponsoring your podcast.
Speaker 3: You know they didn't call MEMI. Yeah, I worked hard
Speaker 3: for that. And fruit Tingles they care to be in business,
Speaker 3: but it's one of those things that you just can't
Speaker 3: predict one what that pregnancy is going to cost, and
Speaker 3: it could be really low cost. You could go through
Speaker 3: the public system, which in Australia is incredible, or like me,
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I have private health. I want
Speaker 3: to go through this, but like I didn't know how
Speaker 3: much that would cost. And I was a financial advisor,
Speaker 3: but I didn't realize that. I don't know if it's
Speaker 3: different in Sydney, but like we had to pay our
Speaker 3: obstetric out of pocket that was like ten grand, and
Speaker 3: then on top of that you have the excess for
Speaker 3: the hospital, and then the scans on top of that,
Speaker 3: because it wasn't public, were like four hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: dollars each and like you get what's seventy dollars back
Speaker 3: of that, And so for us, pregnancy really added up.
Speaker 3: And I'm very grateful that we had the capacity to
Speaker 3: pay for that. But at the same time, I'm like,
Speaker 3: does everybody do this? How are you guys budgeting for this?
Speaker 3: Because like this is insane to me, and I'm not complaining,
Speaker 3: but I'm also like, we need to be better at
Speaker 3: planning financially because you don't have to do it the
Speaker 3: way I did.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 3: Wouldn't it be nice that if something's hitting the fan,
Speaker 3: you have the cash flow available to go. I'd have
Speaker 3: a lot more peace of mind if we went and
Speaker 3: just got another ultrasound, Like I'd just be able to
Speaker 3: sit better at night. And I'd want people to have
Speaker 3: that flexibility.
Speaker 2: A lot of people that can't afford to do that
Speaker 2: and they're not aware of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just don't know your options either if you
Speaker 3: don't do enough research into your finances, because the more
Speaker 3: you research into what would this cost, you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: that cost came out. I didn't realize that might be
Speaker 3: part of it, And why do I have this? And
Speaker 3: it's kind of like working backwards, don't know if.
Speaker 2: There's any other complications that happened after birth as well.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like we've just spent all this money
Speaker 2: trying to do things the safest and the most a
Speaker 2: peace of mind, but then anything could happen.
Speaker 3: Right, you can't control it, and like that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 3: I was so hippie dippy. I spent so much money
Speaker 3: on at cupuncture in the lead up to birth, and
Speaker 3: I saw this gorgeous birth physio. She was a midwife
Speaker 3: and a physio, and we did all of these like
Speaker 3: opening up your hips, massages and stuff and it ended
Speaker 3: up in an emergency Cisian money.
Speaker 1: Well, of course, our birth plan goes out the windows early.
Speaker 3: Who she? We don't know her.
Speaker 1: We want to talk about your pregnancies, yes, and we
Speaker 1: spoke before we started recording about your miscarriage.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And I want to know what was it like leading
Speaker 1: up to your first miscarriage after you have been pregnant?
Speaker 1: Was it twelve weeks?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So we lost our first pregnancy at ten weeks
Speaker 3: and we lost our second pregnancy at twelve weeks, and
Speaker 3: we still don't know why. So like there's obviously no
Speaker 3: reason why, but like, let's be honest, it was really shit.
Speaker 3: Was shit for me, It was shit for my husband
Speaker 3: the first time though. I don't know how much do
Speaker 3: you want me to get into it, but like I
Speaker 3: found out that I was miscarrying because I was bleeding,
Speaker 3: and that's obviously a really stressful period of time. I
Speaker 3: was so excited though, because like I'd want a baby's
Speaker 3: for so long found out I was pregnant. I told everybody,
Speaker 3: like I had told every mannitty dog, like I can't
Speaker 3: keep a secret to save my life. So if you've
Speaker 3: got them, don't tell them to me, because I will yap.
Speaker 3: I just come on, I'm just so excited about it.
Speaker 1: How long have you been trying for before you?
Speaker 3: We were really lucky. We got pregnant really quickly. So
Speaker 3: our first pregnancy, it turns out when I went on
Speaker 3: my honeymoon, which was we got married and then there
Speaker 3: was a few weeks and then we went on a honeymoon.
Speaker 3: Because work life balance, it's out the window. It turns
Speaker 3: out we tried on our honeymoon, but I was actually
Speaker 3: already pregnant, so that was really good.
Speaker 2: So we had go before then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a man, well, Steve Golds. So that that
Speaker 3: was really surprising because I for my whole life had
Speaker 3: period issues and like you know, lots of like women issues.
Speaker 3: That meant I just assumed it was going to be
Speaker 3: really hard, and it happened really quickly, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 3: this is magic, this is really cool. I was a
Speaker 3: bit anxious because I hadn't started like taking the prenatles
Speaker 3: and stuff and like you want to do all of
Speaker 3: the right things, and so yeah, I went to a
Speaker 3: work event and found that I was bleeding and was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, did you feel No, I felt.
Speaker 3: Fine, Like everything was hunky, dory. I did have pretty
Speaker 3: bad morning sickness, but like in my head that was
Speaker 3: like a good thing, right, like that's a sign of
Speaker 3: a sticky good pregnancy. And yeah, was bleeding and did
Speaker 3: a bit of googling and had convinced myself that was
Speaker 3: actually okay because it was only a little bit. And
Speaker 3: then I went home and it just got worse and worse.
Speaker 3: I ended up in emergency with my husband, and yeah,
Speaker 3: they let us know that that wasn't viable. And then
Speaker 3: that in itself is a bit of a circus because
Speaker 3: you get there and I at that point I knew
Speaker 3: what was happening, like you can't that amount of blood,
Speaker 3: that amount of blood, that situation, like it was stressful
Speaker 3: because emergency. Obviously I'm not gushing blood out of my arm.
Speaker 3: I don't need stitches. I'm not the priority. I get it,
Speaker 3: but like your baby, at that point, nothing could feel
Speaker 3: more urgent. So it just felt like they were moving
Speaker 3: at snail's pace. And then they lost my blood work
Speaker 3: three times, so like we'd gone into emergency straight after
Speaker 3: my work events. So I was like, maybe they're from
Speaker 3: two pm till five am, and they kept losing the
Speaker 3: blood work and I kept saying, I know what's happening.
Speaker 3: Can I just go home? And they were like, no,
Speaker 3: I'm really sorry. We need to actually like make sure
Speaker 3: this isn't an ectopic pregnancy, because if it is, we
Speaker 3: need to do surgery and all of that other stuff.
Speaker 3: So you're just sitting in limbo in an emergency with
Speaker 3: some dude beside you complaining about his toe, and you're
Speaker 3: just like, this is not the moment. So that happened,
Speaker 3: and it was really bad because I came home and
Speaker 3: then had to tell everybody that that had happened and
Speaker 3: it wasn't. I'm the type of person where, yeah, that
Speaker 3: was devastating. I was so upset, But I'm also really pragmatic.
Speaker 3: It's not meant to be. It's not meant to be,
Speaker 3: and I'm a bit hippie dippy, so I'm very much
Speaker 3: okay cool, Like I have a sun Harvey now, and
Speaker 3: I'm very much of the opinion that his little soul
Speaker 3: was destined for me and those other previous babies they
Speaker 3: had the same soul that body just didn't work, and
Speaker 3: that really has helped me be like, no, like, in
Speaker 3: the moment, it feels like your world is ending, But
Speaker 3: now I'm like, okay, cool, Like that was just part
Speaker 3: of the journey for me to get Harvey Like, it's
Speaker 3: not good, but that's part of the journey, right.
Speaker 1: I try and remember we'd a really similar scenario. Laura
Speaker 1: miscarried in a similar way that she found out by
Speaker 1: bleeding and it didn't stop. Kind of thing back to
Speaker 1: how we managed the emotional whiplash of thinking you're pregnant
Speaker 1: one second and then finding it You've lost over the
Speaker 1: next and it's like all your hopes.
Speaker 3: And dreams have been wished, Like I've just been ripped away.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't help, but imagine, you know, life as
Speaker 1: a parent, you know, like changing your baby's nappy, like
Speaker 1: going to the park. You know, as you're thinking about
Speaker 1: as pregnancy, you look at other families and everything around
Speaker 1: you is just all baby, baby, baby. Yeah, how do
Speaker 1: you digest the news?
Speaker 3: I gaslp myself a lot, so I was like, it's fine,
Speaker 3: these things happen. It's one in four, like all of
Speaker 3: that stuff that you hear. I didn't really know anybody
Speaker 3: with it. When I started to share that I had
Speaker 3: been through it, though, people would be like, oh us too.
Speaker 3: I'd be like sorry, what, Yeah, I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 3: i'd talk to someone like you, Matt, and you'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we went through that. I'd be like, sorry, what like when?
Speaker 3: How like what happened? What did you do? And so
Speaker 3: it was nice to talk about it. I did feel
Speaker 3: awkward talking about it because, like, you know, I might
Speaker 3: bop on into a podcast recording with someone and haven't
Speaker 3: seen you guys in ages, and you might go, how's
Speaker 3: the pregnancy, And I'd have to be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: going to make this really awkward for you, and I
Speaker 3: think that I'm one of those people. I don't want
Speaker 3: to make it awkward. I'd be like, I'm really sorry,
Speaker 3: but I'm okay. But also, this happened, and that was
Speaker 3: I hated delivering the news that it wasn't there, which
Speaker 3: is why I waited with my second and then third
Speaker 3: pregnancy so long to tell people. Not because I was
Speaker 3: waiting for that twelve weeks, but I just I didn't
Speaker 3: want to tell someone something to then have to make
Speaker 3: it awkward to bring it back up. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It was an interesting period of time, but I definitely
Speaker 3: gas liped myself into being like, wine, this happens a lot.
Speaker 3: I was heartbroken, but like I probably didn't process it
Speaker 3: the way that I would, which is why the second
Speaker 3: time it happened it was way worse.
Speaker 2: After that, the thought of falling pregnant again, the anxiety.
Speaker 3: Was so stressed. And I'm really lucky I get pregnant
Speaker 3: very quickly, which is so nice, and so many people
Speaker 3: struggle with that, and that made me feel guilty again
Speaker 3: because I was like, this is you know, that's the
Speaker 3: easy bit for me, and so many people struggle, and
Speaker 3: like we all struggle with different things. But I remember
Speaker 3: getting pregnant probably the month after our miscarriage, and it
Speaker 3: was an accident. We weren't not trying. We knew we
Speaker 3: wanted babies, but I just didn't think it would happen
Speaker 3: that quickly. And then I found out I was pregnant
Speaker 3: and I was elated but terrified, Like I just cried
Speaker 3: for like three days because I was so scared of
Speaker 3: what would happen. And I called my doctor and I
Speaker 3: was like, what can I do? How can I make
Speaker 3: it sticky? Like how do I not lose this baby?
Speaker 1: And he would just have the same morning sickness again.
Speaker 3: Same thing. That's how I found out because I felt
Speaker 3: really off and I was like, we haven't tried yet,
Speaker 3: and so felt really off and took a pregnancy test elated,
Speaker 3: bit terrified, and my doctor was like, no, like it's
Speaker 3: so rare for it to happen a second time, like
Speaker 3: less than one percent of people experience recurrent this carriage.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, all right, Like that that made
Speaker 3: me feel a little bit better. I wasn't as anxious
Speaker 3: as my third pregnancy, but like this second one fine
Speaker 3: was going so well, Like because we had had a loss,
Speaker 3: We'd booked in really early with our obstetrician and I
Speaker 3: had like a six week scan, an eight week scan,
Speaker 3: a ten weeks like and I got to see this
Speaker 3: baby all the time. And then we went to our
Speaker 3: twelve week scan and she had to say, I'm really sorry,
Speaker 3: but there's no heartbeat and the fack I had a
Speaker 3: missed miscarriage, which is where you don't know that you're
Speaker 3: not pregnant anymore, and the baby passed away, and so
Speaker 3: whipped down to the hall or we whipped down the
Speaker 3: hallway to another like ultrasound clinic because they have to
Speaker 3: like double check and make sure that the first one
Speaker 3: was right, and they confirmed it and they said you
Speaker 3: can go home. I said what I said, you can
Speaker 3: go home, like and see if you naturally miscarrie, We'll
Speaker 3: call you in a couple of days and see how
Speaker 3: you're going. I mean, my OB was very empathetic, she
Speaker 3: was very kind, But you're like, what do you mean
Speaker 3: I just go home? You just told me that I'm
Speaker 3: not pregnant anymore. I'm still so full of morning sickness.
Speaker 3: I'm so like, what do you mean I feel pregnant? Like, okay,
Speaker 3: so go home and I wait and I wait and
Speaker 3: nothing happened. Should call every day and be like, how
Speaker 3: are you feeling? Has anything happened? And I'd be like no,
Speaker 3: because in a lot of those situations and OB will
Speaker 3: pick it up, or your doctor will pick it up,
Speaker 3: and then you will just start bleeding at home and
Speaker 3: like things will progress naturally. It didn't for me, and
Speaker 3: so I had to go in for a DNC and
Speaker 3: like going to hospital do all of that? What's d
Speaker 3: and sorry, so it's a I can't even remember it.
Speaker 3: So something in curatedge it's basically where they perform a
Speaker 3: medical procedure to remove the baby and like all of
Speaker 3: which is really stressful because obviously no one wants to
Speaker 3: go through that. In addition to that, you've got all
Speaker 3: of this doubt. What if they're wrong. What if I'm
Speaker 3: going into this surgery, like this surgery is real final,
Speaker 3: like they're going to take the baby out. What if
Speaker 3: they were wrong and they just couldn't see that. So
Speaker 3: the anxiety of going into that was really awful. And
Speaker 3: I just remember that's when I really I wasn't as
Speaker 3: anxious that pregnancy because I was, like my doctor said,
Speaker 3: it was only one percent chance. The idea of getting
Speaker 3: pregnant a third time. Yeah, that wasn't very fun.
Speaker 1: When you were in recovery following your second miscarriage. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming there's no silver bullet to something that you would
Speaker 1: do to try and make the situation easier for yourself
Speaker 1: and for your partner. But do you remember was there
Speaker 1: anything that that really helped you?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: My god, yes, it was the nurse. I was actually
Speaker 3: telling Zara, my assist, about this literally yesterday. We're grilled
Speaker 3: obviously talking about my miscarriage, which is very normal for
Speaker 3: me as you do as you do, and I remember
Speaker 3: it didn't really hit me, like you go through the motions, right,
Speaker 3: like a doctor tells you you're going to go into
Speaker 3: hospital this time, go in your check in whatever, real
Speaker 3: clinical like I'm not crying or anything, I'm not upset.
Speaker 3: Wasn't until they started going, all right, we're going to
Speaker 3: take you down to surgery, and they like put the
Speaker 3: sides of the bed up, and I was hysterical, like
Speaker 3: I it was uncontrollable. And there was this gorgeous nurse
Speaker 3: and she like grabbed my hand and was stroking my
Speaker 3: hand and she's like, I will just be here because
Speaker 3: my husband couldn't come into surgery with me, and so
Speaker 3: like he walked all the way. But anyway, she was
Speaker 3: holding my hand and she was stroking it and being like, oh,
Speaker 3: it's okay. I've been here and it gets better. I
Speaker 3: promise it's okay. And she was like the most wholesome
Speaker 3: person in the entire world. And I just remember it
Speaker 3: was like I don't need you to tell me I'm
Speaker 3: going to be okay. But the empathy of somebody just
Speaker 3: being like this really fucking shit, I'm really sorry, you
Speaker 3: are making the right decision, like it like just validating
Speaker 3: what I'm going through, like I don't need someone to go.
Speaker 3: We went through that, and what happened was and like,
Speaker 3: I just don't have the mental capacity for that right now,
Speaker 3: but could you kind of just coddle me and make
Speaker 3: sure that I feel so cared about? And she did,
Speaker 3: and in a very full circle moment, I ended up
Speaker 3: having an emergency cesarian at the same hospital that I
Speaker 3: had my DNC performed at, and I again was quite
Speaker 3: upset because I had this like natural birth plan right
Speaker 3: like I was going to I was going to a
Speaker 3: raw dog birth. I was gonna be the best birthing
Speaker 3: lady ever, and I was just really upset that I
Speaker 3: was going down into this emergency cesarean. I felt really
Speaker 3: out of control, and as you have probably learned, I
Speaker 3: don't like being out of control. That was not a
Speaker 3: situation I loved. And the same woman I lost it,
Speaker 3: I lost it.
Speaker 1: Like I would she remember you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I saw her. And when you're going
Speaker 3: into a cesarean, I don't know how it works at
Speaker 3: other hospitals, but you get you get like taken into
Speaker 3: the surgery and they say to your husband or your
Speaker 3: your birthday partner, wait out there, We're just going to
Speaker 3: get everything set up, and they they move you onto
Speaker 3: the bed and like get the little.
Speaker 2: You hit one too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can hear that, but you can't see
Speaker 3: me and my We separated for a bit, and then
Speaker 3: you get invited back into the room once everything's ready
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 2: They've dropped my wife. That's because I heard the bang.
Speaker 1: Look after itsh.
Speaker 3: Alright, didn't get yah.
Speaker 1: Yah.
Speaker 3: Steve comes back in. I'm hysterical because I'm just like
Speaker 3: this is meant to be. Like, there's this beautiful woman
Speaker 3: and she helped my hand again while I had Harvey,
Speaker 3: which was really cool. But that felt really full circle.
Speaker 1: That was fucking crazy. That's cool. It also amazing that
Speaker 1: she remembered you because our midwife I saw her at
Speaker 1: the shops maybe like a few months after we'd given birth,
Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, and she didn't have any
Speaker 1: idea I was. I was like, that's right, she must do.
Speaker 2: That every day.
Speaker 3: My husband did humble me after because I was like,
Speaker 3: oh my god, it was amazing. I need to find
Speaker 3: out her name Rarah And he's like, how did you
Speaker 3: remember you? You must have been real hystericis thanks funny?
Speaker 1: Amazing, Like just just the anxiety with Harvey of just
Speaker 1: like trying to make sure that nothing was going to
Speaker 1: go wrong. But it's so out of your control, is
Speaker 1: just so freaking scary.
Speaker 3: It's terrifying. And I just kept in my head during
Speaker 3: her pregnancy, which for our third pregnancy, our obstetrician recommended
Speaker 3: that I started taking progesterone and like a few other
Speaker 3: things to hopefully help. And I don't know if it worked,
Speaker 3: but that pregnancy worked. So like the second I find
Speaker 3: out I'm pregnant again, one day, I will be running
Speaker 3: for the progesterone because in my head that worked. But
Speaker 3: I remember thinking that milestones were going to help my
Speaker 3: mental health. So I'd be like, right, once we hit
Speaker 3: twelve weeks and we'd get to that scan and it's
Speaker 3: all good, it's gonna BEOK fine, And then it wasn't,
Speaker 3: and I was so anxious. And I don't believe that
Speaker 3: I enjoyed that pregnancy at all, because every time I
Speaker 3: thought about it, I was anxious. I ended up with preclampsia,
Speaker 3: so I was calling the hospital every year with my
Speaker 3: blood pressure and just like it was just a bit
Speaker 3: of an experience. But I remember fourteen weeks. I was like,
Speaker 3: surely at fourteen weeks, because that's pretty legit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be fine.
Speaker 3: No, maybe twenty weeks. Maybe when you hit halfway. No, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe when I hit twenty three and like I reached that,
Speaker 3: you know, they say it's viable, a viable pregnant. Maybe
Speaker 3: that will make me feel good because if something happens,
Speaker 3: like they will go into like I see, like neo
Speaker 3: natal care or whatever. Nothing helped. It was when I
Speaker 3: had him in my arms and I'm like, we actually
Speaker 3: did it, like we didn't mess it up, Like what
Speaker 3: do you mean? That was when I started to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is really real. But it did feel quite abstract
Speaker 3: because I think you also go into protecting yourself a
Speaker 3: little bit by being like, I'm going to distance myself
Speaker 3: from this baby a little bit, which then made me stressed.
Speaker 3: I'm like, am I not forming the right bond with
Speaker 3: this baby? And so it was an experience, I suppose.
Speaker 1: And then what was the newborn phase? Like I mean,
Speaker 1: we're kind of almost still a newborn phase because you're
Speaker 1: eight months.
Speaker 3: Now, which is wild. He's such a chunky boy, Like
Speaker 3: he's like thirteen kilos at.
Speaker 2: Eight months, with my kid's like five and a half. Anyways,
Speaker 2: like fifteen, I.
Speaker 3: Can't, I can't. He's so big. He's in like eighteen
Speaker 3: month old clothing. At eight, he's like a little good
Speaker 3: show your photo his little poma.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a flex when you get a
Speaker 1: big kid.
Speaker 3: I can't put him in his carrier. I look novel
Speaker 3: carrying him like, oh, like getting him in and out
Speaker 3: of the car.
Speaker 1: I'm like, with any parts that you found really difficult.
Speaker 3: A few. I think going from being so career orientated
Speaker 3: to being a mum where I'm home all the time,
Speaker 3: I really struggled with because I felt like, what am
Speaker 3: I meant to do with my hands when he's asleep,
Speaker 3: Like I'm what am I supposed to do? I also
Speaker 3: really struggled with breastfeeding that never worked for me from
Speaker 3: being in the hospital. It was painful, it was hard.
Speaker 3: My son had a tongue tie that we ultimately had
Speaker 3: to get cut, which was okay, but then once he
Speaker 3: was feeding properly, I think it was a bit too late.
Speaker 3: So I went on the medication to increase my milk
Speaker 3: supply and all that did was make me put on
Speaker 3: seven kilos, which didn't impact my mental health at all.
Speaker 3: But it's one of those things that that didn't work.
Speaker 3: But I was so like, I have to breastfeed, like
Speaker 3: I have to. Why, I don't know, there's so much pressure.
Speaker 3: But I'm a really logical person. So if you came
Speaker 3: to me and said I'm struggling breastfeeding, first thing I do,
Speaker 3: be like, you know, you could just use formula. But
Speaker 3: then the pressure you put on yourself to like be
Speaker 3: this stereotypical mum, You're just like, but I have to.
Speaker 3: I have to try. And so I was trying and trying,
Speaker 3: and I was crying, my boobs were cracked. My song was,
Speaker 3: you know, not putting on wage. The maternal health nurse
Speaker 3: was consistently like, hey, like we need to do formula
Speaker 3: top ups, and I was like, okay, we can, but like,
Speaker 3: I'm trying so hard, and I was like doing what's
Speaker 3: called triple feeding, where you like feed the baby from
Speaker 3: the breast, you then feed them with a bottle and pump,
Speaker 3: and it killed me, like it was a circus. I
Speaker 3: feel like once I finished that and put him to sleep,
Speaker 3: I was cleaning pumps and bottles and then going back
Speaker 3: to do it again around the clock, and it just
Speaker 3: my milk supply never increased. And I think that pressure
Speaker 3: to breastfeed and it's so easy for so many women
Speaker 3: in my mother's group, and I remember looking at them
Speaker 3: being like I felt I felt bad pulling a formula
Speaker 3: bottle out of the pram and like you shouldn't, no, no,
Speaker 3: And now he's one hundred percent formula and we've never
Speaker 3: been happier and what the hell.
Speaker 2: Was It's crazy this, Yeah, the expectation. I think that
Speaker 2: that mum was put on themselves, Like you were saying, like,
Speaker 2: if someone came to you and said, my baby's not
Speaker 2: not latching, you'd be like, just try some formula. And
Speaker 2: it's so easy to just say that, and I get that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: probably have other mums that when you were struggling, you
Speaker 2: were like actually really struggling mentally with the whole thing and.
Speaker 3: The mental Yeah, it's the mental thing. It's not even
Speaker 3: like yeah, breastfeeding physically wasn't happening well, but it's the pressure.
Speaker 3: It's the anxiety, it's the feeling like a ship mom.
Speaker 3: And does that make your mom? Absolutely not? Absolutely not,
Speaker 3: And like I'm a better mum now my baby is
Speaker 3: on formula because he is happy, he is healthy, he
Speaker 3: is thriving, and so am I Like that's the ultimate outcome.
Speaker 3: So next baby, I'll give it a crack, sure, because
Speaker 3: I actually enjoyed the active breastfeeding. It was really nice
Speaker 3: to form that bond. But once Harvey hit six months,
Speaker 3: I was still trying to breastfeed him. In six months
Speaker 3: and he was feeding morning and night, and I felt
Speaker 3: like that was a good bonding time, but also we
Speaker 3: were definitely still topping him up with formula. He got
Speaker 3: teeth and was like, hey, hey, I'm going to bite you,
Speaker 3: and I was like, do you know what I think
Speaker 3: actually done? You didn't pass your six month probation, so
Speaker 3: we're just going to cancel this role and move on.
Speaker 1: The only part that I didn't like about the fact
Speaker 1: that both our kids started bottle feeding pretty early on
Speaker 1: was the fact that I had to do the feeds
Speaker 1: at nighttime with Laura. And up until that point when
Speaker 1: Laura was breastfeeding, I had a pretty clean rid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so when Laura was like, I think we're going to
Speaker 1: do formula, I was like, that's totally fine.
Speaker 3: My husband took it like a champ. He was just like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'll do all of that. Like I feel like.
Speaker 2: I've lucked down the green flag.
Speaker 1: That's also that's also what I said, Okay, but.
Speaker 3: Like, my husband walked the walk mat and do you
Speaker 3: know what this is? Such a flex. I was talking
Speaker 3: on the plane on the way here to one of
Speaker 3: my team members and I said, do you know how
Speaker 3: cool it is that I just I got up really
Speaker 3: early this morning, I got on a plane and coming
Speaker 3: to Sydney. I have an eight month old baby, and
Speaker 3: I didn't feel the need at all to leave my
Speaker 3: husband any instructions. Wow, I just knew he knew.
Speaker 2: Does he not know the bar is that low?
Speaker 1: He's just like, wow, man, we need to have a
Speaker 1: chat to him.
Speaker 2: We need to talk to this girl.
Speaker 1: It's the green flags. They lived up to their expectations.
Speaker 3: They did, and I feel like that was actually something
Speaker 3: that was important to me dating and like finding a
Speaker 3: life partner. I did want a good dad. I was
Speaker 3: always like, I want to marry a good day. I
Speaker 3: had a good dad. Babies deserve that. And you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes you can't pick it, and sometimes the person that
Speaker 3: you think you're marrying ends up not being the person
Speaker 3: that you're marrying. Like there's so many different situations, but like, goddamn,
Speaker 3: am I so grateful that it actually worked out.
Speaker 1: I should celebrate that behavior because jokes aside. That's that
Speaker 1: is how dads should be behaving. It shouldn't be a no
Speaker 1: noomally to have a dad like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: But I remember being like, I should be celebrating because like,
Speaker 3: this is not what society has said is the expectation.
Speaker 3: Like I'm talking to other people that I know and
Speaker 3: they're like, oh my god, I had to leave frozen
Speaker 3: meals and I had to leave out a list and
Speaker 3: they didn't even know where, you know what the code was,
Speaker 3: a daycare drop off and all of this other stuff.
Speaker 3: And I remember being like.
Speaker 1: How.
Speaker 2: Just honestly, from a bloke perspective, a lot of blokes
Speaker 2: are useless.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like the other day I had to ask
Speaker 3: my husband. I was like, sorry, what was the and
Speaker 3: a formula? Again, I'm buying it, like maybe I'm a ship.
Speaker 3: What one was it? And he's like it's a Lula Advance,
Speaker 3: not Gold And I was like, oh, yeah, totally, I
Speaker 3: get it.
Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about we've spoken about
Speaker 1: some of your dating rules. You do have some other
Speaker 1: rules that I'm going to bring up and just get yours.
Speaker 3: Not everybody likes my rules.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: The internet doesn't seem to like my rules, but I
Speaker 3: think you guys.
Speaker 2: Will, Okay, this is specifically for newborn stage.
Speaker 3: I feel like we need to give a little bit
Speaker 3: of context because it makes me one, I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm justifying myself, but also it does make me seem
Speaker 3: a little bit more de lulu, and I think that
Speaker 3: works for you.
Speaker 1: You have called yourself hippie dippy at least four times
Speaker 1: so fast.
Speaker 3: But it is true.
Speaker 2: I told you that.
Speaker 3: Not only are these rules, but this is a set
Speaker 3: of rules that I sent out to all of my
Speaker 3: friends and family before I even had the baby.
Speaker 2: Oh before you had the baby.
Speaker 3: The baby didn't even even Oh my gosh, the baby
Speaker 3: hadn't been born yet.
Speaker 2: Can I just give you the first one? Really quick? Hello,
Speaker 2: family and friends.
Speaker 1: I'll take on the first rules. Some of these are
Speaker 1: very obvious.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen this in a very very long time.
Speaker 1: Let me refresh your memory. Rule Number one, please do
Speaker 1: not kiss our baby on their face.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's reasonable. I agree, like babies get sick,
Speaker 3: they have really bad immune systems. I want to kiss
Speaker 3: my baby all over my face. I get it.
Speaker 2: I get it too.
Speaker 3: True doating dads your newborns did you want people kissing
Speaker 3: your baby on their face.
Speaker 1: Well, our kids were COVID baby, it must be nice.
Speaker 2: She's got you there, so no one.
Speaker 1: Would have done that, correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Point taken for my second was so we didn't have
Speaker 2: that problem. But the first one I can't. I can't remember.
Speaker 2: I think I don't think anyone did, maybe without me
Speaker 2: knowing or seeing. But like looking at this reading it going,
Speaker 2: that's so reasonable, especially with hsv RSV.
Speaker 3: I want you to love my baby. I really do, totally,
Speaker 3: but and I'm not don't call it, but don't lick
Speaker 3: their face? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's to be weird. It's like ugle Steve's
Speaker 2: out of the game.
Speaker 3: Talk to my dog.
Speaker 2: This one's also, I think, really reasonable. If you're sick,
Speaker 2: could be sick, or have been around someone who is sick,
Speaker 2: please reschedule you visit. We can't wait to share our
Speaker 2: baby with you, but also want to make sure they're
Speaker 2: say totally fair.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, I think that's very reasonable. I feel like
Speaker 3: not turning up when someone has a newborn and you're
Speaker 3: potentially sick.
Speaker 1: Did you have to turn anyone away? No?
Speaker 3: I didn't because do you know what my family and
Speaker 3: friends were incredibly respectful of the rules that I said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that one should be pretty common knowledge too,
Speaker 2: Like if you if you're sick, you don't want to
Speaker 2: go near a baby, so you think.
Speaker 3: That, but like common knowledge is not that common?
Speaker 1: Well, this one is a crazy one.
Speaker 3: Oh it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Explain this one. Please wash your hands before picking up
Speaker 1: the baby.
Speaker 2: Definitely not I'm joking, all.
Speaker 3: Right, hold on, hold on, When you guys go to
Speaker 3: the bathroom, do you wash your hands every time?
Speaker 2: Bullshit, you're not in there with me.
Speaker 3: Be too quick. Men are too quick, many too quick.
Speaker 2: Washing your hands.
Speaker 1: You looked in the chap moving on.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think this is also very reasonable too, thinking
Speaker 2: that they're reasonable.
Speaker 3: But I got savaged on the internet because I got
Speaker 3: asked about this and I said, I'll share the screenshots
Speaker 3: of my message no worries, and people were like, you
Speaker 3: are controlling, You are weird.
Speaker 1: Tell us which one if there was anyone in particular
Speaker 1: that caused them, like the biggest controversy, I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to give you this one really quick. Please don't
Speaker 2: post any photos of our baby online or share them
Speaker 2: with others without ac consent.
Speaker 3: So we don't share any photos of Harvey online of
Speaker 3: his face. Like I'll share pictures of us with our kid,
Speaker 3: but I always put like an emoji or something over
Speaker 3: his face. I just I don't want my baby online.
Speaker 3: I'm not a mum content creator. I'm not a family
Speaker 3: content creator. My husband is not part of like the
Speaker 3: social media world. I just feel like that's us, that's
Speaker 3: our that's do I think other people should do it?
Speaker 3: Not like I love seeing other people's babies. I love it,
Speaker 3: no matter, I love it. But like, I'm a finance
Speaker 3: content creator, and I get and I mean you probably
Speaker 3: do as parents as well, But like I get a
Speaker 3: lot of bad feedback because I'm talking about like one
Speaker 3: of those three sacred topics that you should never talk about,
Speaker 3: and that's money. And so I just I don't know.
Speaker 3: It just makes me uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Similar to me when I post my money, I put
Speaker 2: an emoji over it. Yeah, yeah, I have noticed that
Speaker 2: it's most suitcase of money.
Speaker 3: Like every time you take a selfie in the mirror
Speaker 3: as you're leaving and you're like, oh, sorry, I had
Speaker 3: to put an emoji over that wallet.
Speaker 1: Victoria, what about this one? No strong sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't wear perfect around a newborn what is
Speaker 3: that it marks up there like a little that links Africa.
Speaker 3: That's the only one I allowed. That's the only one
Speaker 3: I allowed. So babies are really really sensitive, so having
Speaker 3: perfume on around them is actually really bad for their
Speaker 3: little endocrime system. And during that period of time when
Speaker 3: they are a newborn, they're trying to bond via smell
Speaker 3: to their parents. So please don't get.
Speaker 1: In the way of that. The last one hit, which
Speaker 1: the most controversial of all.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, this is going to be very controversial. If
Speaker 2: you haven't had an up to date hooping cough vaccination,
Speaker 2: please don't plan a visit before our babies at least
Speaker 2: six weeks old.
Speaker 1: I mean, explain that one, Victoria.
Speaker 3: I'm just so pro vaxed, you know, so hooping cough
Speaker 3: can kill Newborns's feel like I don't actually want that
Speaker 3: to happen. And it turns out, yeah, it's wild, but
Speaker 3: it turns out it's like semi avoidable. Like you could
Speaker 3: just get vaccinated, and do I need you to get
Speaker 3: a VATS No, But like the trade off is you
Speaker 3: can just meet our baby after their s.
Speaker 2: You just wait and be patient. I think that's fat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think boundaries are very important, and I think
Speaker 1: it's fucking great.
Speaker 3: That you have been gets hilarious that I had to
Speaker 3: listen to those back when I am a little bit unhinged.
Speaker 2: Hey, no, I think like you were saying, some people
Speaker 2: common knowledge is in that common like there's some of
Speaker 2: those are on like the scent one. I'm like, idea.
Speaker 3: See, I had no idea about this either. And I
Speaker 3: had the privilege of having babies last in our friendship group,
Speaker 3: so all of my friends had had that, and I
Speaker 3: just remember along a long the time, you know, a
Speaker 3: friend would be like, oh my god, such and such
Speaker 3: as mum came and visited the baby and she was
Speaker 3: covered in perfume and I was like.
Speaker 1: What and she was looking her face.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, so I was. I was kind
Speaker 3: of like, oh, I didn't realize that I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: done that. But also I didn't realize that was actually
Speaker 3: an issue. So being able to see and learn from
Speaker 3: their mistakes and set them up so I didn't have
Speaker 3: have to, you know, turn to my mum and be like,
Speaker 3: I love your perfume, but can you not leave sea.
Speaker 1: I guarantee, while it would have been a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are online being like, what is this? There
Speaker 1: would have been even more people's screenshotting those rules to
Speaker 1: use the.
Speaker 3: People messaging and being like, I wish that I had
Speaker 3: done the same thing. I didn't even think about it
Speaker 3: or I didn't know, and I'm like, neither did I. I
Speaker 3: just got to learn from all of my friends. Switches.
Speaker 2: Can you sniff the baby?
Speaker 1: You can sniff the baby, sniff feet, Matt's walk in
Speaker 1: the street.
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 3: Why is it so good? Their feet? Their head the
Speaker 3: top of it.
Speaker 2: I actually held a baby for the first time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I've actually picked the baby, have my wife. He must
Speaker 2: be drunk.
Speaker 3: I was so good little drunk newborns.
Speaker 1: Victoria. I do want to ask you to finance questions.
Speaker 3: I love finds question and there may not.
Speaker 1: Be answers to these questions. If there's not, tell me
Speaker 1: to shut up. Yeah, but I'll try my luck. Question
Speaker 1: number one, what would you say is the biggest financial
Speaker 1: mistake that parents make for their kids?
Speaker 3: Oh, biggest financial mistake not investing in themselves. So like,
Speaker 3: I think parents make the mistake of thinking that to
Speaker 3: teach kids about money, they need to give their kids money.
Speaker 3: Like money is hard at the moment, we're in the
Speaker 3: middle of the cost of living crisis. Your kid does
Speaker 3: not need. They don't need their own little pay packet
Speaker 3: every week to manage. They need to see parents who
Speaker 3: are role modeling good money behaviors, like they need to
Speaker 3: see parents who are having open, honest conversations about budgets,
Speaker 3: Like you don't have to sit down with your five
Speaker 3: year old and be like, so mummy earns sixty five
Speaker 3: thousand dollars and daddy earns, but like, have you heard.
Speaker 2: A compound interest?
Speaker 3: Yes, kids are smarter than you give them credit for.
Speaker 3: They catch on really quickly. But even just small things
Speaker 3: like not teaching them money during the grocery shop being like, okay, cool,
Speaker 3: So we have two hundred dollars to spend this grocery
Speaker 3: shop and that means that we need to look at
Speaker 3: these little dockets and you know those usually as a
Speaker 3: ten dollars a box. What is that about, by the way,
Speaker 3: And these ones, the off brand ones, you know, they're three,
Speaker 3: so you could choose, you could have three different snack
Speaker 3: options or one which one is? I know they're your favorite,
Speaker 3: but do you want more for the week? Because once
Speaker 3: they're out, they're at It's love that have little games
Speaker 3: and decisions, And I think that the mistake parents make
Speaker 3: is thinking we need to have a lot of money,
Speaker 3: We need to pay them pocket money and get them
Speaker 3: to learn money that way, when in reality it's actually
Speaker 3: we learn by osmosis and being around people who are
Speaker 3: good with money. So I think that that would be
Speaker 3: the biggest mistake. It's not like investing or saving like
Speaker 3: you don't that pressure is wild. The idea that you know,
Speaker 3: I get asked all the time, how are you investing
Speaker 3: for Harvey? And it's like, why aren't we talking about
Speaker 3: your emergency fund? And you know, filling your own cup
Speaker 3: first and being a parent that you know doesn't have
Speaker 3: to rely on credit. It's hard, but like, can we
Speaker 3: put ourselves in that position? And they'd be like, wow,
Speaker 3: you know this unexpected bill came up, Jim, and we
Speaker 3: were able to pay for it. Isn't that call that
Speaker 3: we saved? And then now we weren't in a bit
Speaker 3: of a pickle. We can still go on the family holiday,
Speaker 3: we can still do that fund thing on the weekend.
Speaker 3: It's not going to impact that. Like, I think that
Speaker 3: is probably a mistake is not using everyday opportunities to
Speaker 3: teach kids about money when you think you need it.
Speaker 3: You don't need heaps of money to be good at money.
Speaker 2: What is the one thing parents or expecting parents should
Speaker 2: be doing financially?
Speaker 3: Do you think bumping up their emergency funds because you
Speaker 3: just never know what's going to happen. Life is expensive
Speaker 3: and you can budget to the end of the earth,
Speaker 3: but sometimes you need a little bit of wiggle room
Speaker 3: to order a tin of formula or Uber eats. And
Speaker 3: yes it is more expensive and it is not the
Speaker 3: best quote financial decision, but that is going to take
Speaker 3: so much pressure off your relationship. Wrangling a baby, Wrangling
Speaker 3: a newborn is hard, getting out of the house even harder.
Speaker 3: So I would make sure that I have an emergency fund,
Speaker 3: make sure it's got, you know, as much as I
Speaker 3: feel comfortable in it, but also then don't feel bad
Speaker 3: when you're using it during those periods of time, because
Speaker 3: to me, an emergency fund is there to help you
Speaker 3: with emergencies. And I know that you might go car
Speaker 3: accident or theft, but an emergency actually might be your
Speaker 3: mental health and just ordering that Tina formula or the
Speaker 3: food or even dinner or a pizza for two on
Speaker 3: Uber eats and paying a ridiculous amount for it so
Speaker 3: that you can stay on the couch and not have
Speaker 3: to lift a finger, because that's what's going to make
Speaker 3: your entire week better. So I think that emergency funds
Speaker 3: and savings are It's not private school education. It's not
Speaker 3: you know, all these fancy things kids, as you guys
Speaker 3: would probably know, they need not that much. Have you
Speaker 3: got somewhere safe for them to sleep? Have you got
Speaker 3: a nappy for them to wear? And have you got
Speaker 3: food for them? Like that's basic of what we need.
Speaker 3: Anything else is a luxury. So how do we kind
Speaker 3: of go back to like we don't need a mama
Speaker 3: roos wing. I promise you don't need you don't need that.
Speaker 3: You don't need the fancy carriers, you don't. They're nice
Speaker 3: to have.
Speaker 1: But what's the rocking?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, the mamrou just gets the hand
Speaker 2: me down, the hand me down there. Our baby beyond
Speaker 2: car carry went through like four different steps of parents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good because.
Speaker 3: They use it to such a short period of time.
Speaker 3: But I think seeing those things as luxuries is important
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: I love that. I do have one last question before
Speaker 1: you go, Victoria, what will be the one thing that
Speaker 1: you want Harvey to remember about the house that he
Speaker 1: grew up in.
Speaker 3: That it was full of love, Like I don't. I
Speaker 3: don't care about what it looks like or what it's done.
Speaker 3: I want him to know that, Like I want him
Speaker 3: to grow up and like you know when you talk
Speaker 3: about your family, like, oh my god, everyone was welcome.
Speaker 3: I want him to always be like, oh, all my friends,
Speaker 3: they would always come over, like. I want him to
Speaker 3: know that everyone is welcome and that he's never not
Speaker 3: safe there. I think that for me is gold standard.
Speaker 1: I love it. Not the advanced standard, just gold standards
Speaker 1: every child.
Speaker 3: But yeah, every child deserves to feel safe and wanted
Speaker 3: and loved, and I think that that and sometimes be
Speaker 3: hard to achieve in a home, especially if it's busy
Speaker 3: or like pic Dick. I just want him to look
Speaker 3: back and be like, oh, we had so much fun,
Speaker 3: we had so much love, Like that would be that would.
Speaker 1: Be very cool. Good answer, weis sure, my mum. Sometimes Victoria, mummy.
Speaker 3: That would get weird, really weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah you're a bit old.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for jumping on. And I could just.
Speaker 1: Suck all the financial wisdom out of your brain.
Speaker 3: It's free for the taking.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. One of the biggest lessons I learned
Speaker 2: from our chat with Victoria Matthew, Yeah.
Speaker 1: What would that be?
Speaker 2: My children do not deserve a cent.
Speaker 1: As if you needed any convincing. A huge thanks to
Speaker 1: Victoria for sharing her experience with pregnancy loss. It's a
Speaker 1: very difficult and vulnerable chat. Wonderful women go through it,
Speaker 1: and I think it's so important that more people talk
Speaker 1: about the topic.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, matt And if you've enjoyed this episode, make sure
Speaker 2: you credit and follow Two Doting Dads wherever you get
Speaker 2: your podcasts or on social media of course Two Dollion
Speaker 2: Dads on Instagram. Join the Facebook page, the join.
Speaker 1: The chat and also a little reminders of the calendars
Speaker 1: are still available at the moment. A reminded that all
Speaker 1: proceeds one goes to Rise Up, an amazing charity that
Speaker 1: works with victims of domestic violence. So if you haven't
Speaker 1: bought one yet, go ahead and buy them because they
Speaker 1: will sell out.
Speaker 2: The link is in the show notes, budgetmag dot com
Speaker 2: dot au Bye here.
Speaker 1: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
Speaker 1: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present,
Speaker 2: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestraight Islander
Speaker 2: peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadagal Land.