1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: Me Now, good day. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 3: My name stocks Justin collse some I'm here with my 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 3: wife and mum to our six kids, Kylie, missus Happy Families. 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 3: We're starting a new segment on the Happy Families podcast 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 3: once a month. 8 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 4: We're going to be asking is it just me? 9 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 3: Is it just me who's worried about or is it 10 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 3: just me who's going crazy because of Or is it 11 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 3: just me because I'm neurotic? 12 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 4: Is it just me? Is the name of the segment 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 4: and Kylie today? Or is it just me? 14 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 1: Is all about sleepovers? 15 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 5: Is it just me? 16 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: Or are sleepovers a really bad idea? 17 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 3: So we're going to dive into that, but we wanted 18 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 3: to ask you first. Facebook blew up when we asked 19 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: this question. This is a provocative topic. People have strong 20 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 3: opinions about sleepovers, for both good and bad, for fairly 21 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 3: clear and obvious reasons. 22 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 4: I think this is what some of you said. 23 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is Joe. I'm calling from Kingscliff. My 24 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: daughter last night, who's fifty, how to sleepover with a friend. 25 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: I discovered that she had switched her location service off, 26 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: and she wouldn't pick a phone up. I came to 27 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: light that she's gone to a teenage hangout in a 28 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: park in Burleigh. When I called the mother of the 29 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: friend that she was staying with, she gave me the 30 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: impression that it wasn't her responsibility and it was my problem. 31 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: I'm curious to know who is liable there and who 32 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: should really be overlooking everything. 33 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 5: Hi. My name is Marie and I'm from Melton, Victoria. 34 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 5: I am a mum to two small boys, four years 35 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 5: old and two years old, and I'm also a teacher 36 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 5: to high school students. I have mixed feelings because as 37 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 5: a teacher, I teach a lot of disadvantaged students. A 38 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 5: lot of my students have various forms of domestic violence 39 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 5: or divorce or poverty in their lives. So I've seen 40 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 5: what can happen, and I know the statistics around who 41 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 5: commits domestic violence. But at the same time, not everyone 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 5: is like that, and I would hate for my fears 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 5: to ruin my children's childhood. 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: Kylie's some great feedback there. By the way, if you 45 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: want to leave us a message, you don't have to 46 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: email us at podcasts at Happy Families dot com dot 47 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 3: you anymore. We have an easy to use button. It's 48 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 3: a brand new plug in on our website, Happy Families 49 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: dot com dot you. Just go to the website, press 50 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: the button and start talking. It's that easy and we 51 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 3: love hearing your voice on the podcast. Okay, let's dive 52 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 3: into it, Kylie, the pros and cons. 53 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: Is there actually any science around sleepovers? 54 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 4: No, Well, there's no Australian data on sleepovers. I have 55 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 4: combed through the through the databases and it's really hard 56 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 4: to find. In fact, it's hard to find. 57 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: Good evidence on sleepovers, full stop, end of story. We 58 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 3: kind of have this belief if there's a whole lot 59 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: of research on a whole lot of things and we 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: can just tap our fingers and I don't know, chat, 61 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 3: GBT or Google or whatever the latest AI is is 62 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: going to tell us the answer to our question. But 63 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: sometimes we don't have good research. Sometimes we actually don't know. 64 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: So we're just making it up. 65 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 4: Well, there is some. 66 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: Data, and that's what we're going to point to in 67 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 3: this conversation. We don't know how many kids are having sleepovers. 68 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: We don't have any idea how many parents are banning sleepovers. 69 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 3: We do know that every time we discussed on social media, 70 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 3: it gets a big response. And even though there isn't 71 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: much research, I've scrounged around and found a few bits 72 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: and pieces. So I've come up with three research backed 73 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: reasons that sleepovers are awesome, and I also found three 74 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 3: research backed reasons that sleepovers are concerning. 75 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 4: Let's dive into them. You want to start with the 76 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 4: pros or the cons. 77 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: Well, I'm always begetting the cons out of the way, 78 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: so let's start there. 79 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: So if I was to ask you, what do you 80 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 3: think the biggest reasons people would be anti sleepovers could be? 81 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 3: In addition to or including what we've already heard, what 82 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 3: would you say? 83 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: Safety issues would have to be paramount. That'd be at 84 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: the top of the list. 85 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, safety concerns in the research, this is the deal 86 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 4: breaker for a lot of people. And I get it. 87 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: Sleepovers pose huge safety risks for children. There's the risk 88 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: of incidents and accidents and exposure to inappropriate behavior, and 89 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 3: we know, I mean, this is really concerning. I had 90 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 3: a chat with one of the lead researchers on the 91 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 3: Estrange Child Male Treatment study just a month and a 92 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: bit ago on the Happy Families podcast, and he indicated 93 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: that their brand new research just published shows that the 94 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 3: group most likely to perpetrate abuse against kids as other kids. 95 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: So we know that harm is most likely to be 96 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 3: done by people who are known by and trusted by 97 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: the victim of the abuse, and often it's another young 98 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: person like a big brother, or just somebody else is 99 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: in the house. Safety concerns are paramount. 100 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: The other things that stand out for me is the 101 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: disruption of routines. Every time our children have had a 102 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: sleep over, every time they have come home home and 103 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: absolute breck. 104 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 4: How many days do you reckon? It takes kids to 105 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 4: recover from a good quality sleepover. 106 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: At least two or three By then, by then the 107 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: weekends over and we're back into the school week, and 108 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: we're trying to push through the brain frog. 109 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 4: Through the brain frog. It's very yes, I have brain frogs. 110 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 4: Those brain frogs are really tough to get through too. 111 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 4: It's true, sleepovers are guaranteed to disrupt kids sleep patterns, 112 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 4: guaranteed to boost fatigue, Guaranteed that more often than night, 113 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 4: your kids are going to come home cranky, cranky and 114 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 4: tired and ratty and miserable, impaired cognitive function. They're horrible 115 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 4: for a few days after. As you said, Kylie, research 116 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 4: does tell us that are regular sleep schedules such as 117 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 4: those that kids are going to experience when they go 118 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 4: and have their sleepovers, are also going to not just 119 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 4: not just have those negatives, but it can impair their 120 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 4: their academic performance and obviously it has an impact on 121 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 4: their mood. 122 00:05:54,920 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: And lastly, I think the issues around peer exclusion and 123 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: peer pressure would be another thing on the list. 124 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 3: So we've talked about this before, the issue of when 125 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 3: the kids getting together, sometimes in a big group, sometimes 126 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 3: a small group. It doesn't really matter the size, but 127 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 3: once it's late at night, good things don't usually happen. 128 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: I actually had a friend reach out to me recently. 129 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: She's got a thirteen year old daughter who's desperate to 130 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: have some friends over, and the parents would be going 131 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: out for an evening and not getting back till really late, 132 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: and so she just asked me what my thoughts were 133 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: on whether or not it would be okay for her 134 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: to leave her thirteen year old daughter behind with a 135 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: few other girls, because this is her first time round. 136 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: And I just said to her, look, I'm not really 137 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: worried about the girls. You're talking about and what they 138 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: might get up to. They're really good kids, I said, 139 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: But the challenge you have when you get more than 140 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: one girl together is just the emotional challenges that exist 141 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: and their inability to navigate those without adult supervision. 142 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, the challenges of exclude usion or bullying, or someone 143 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 3: saying something snide or something something innocent being interpreted ambiguously 144 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 3: taken the wrong way. And then you've got this kid 145 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: who's in the corner, kind of stuck late at night 146 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: with no other to turn to, feeling insecure, feeling hopeless, 147 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 3: feeling excluded, and of course there is the risk that 148 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 3: that can blow up into something far, far worse, because 149 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: they're tired, they're hyped up on sugar and all those 150 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 3: kinds of things. So they're the concerns, and I think 151 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 3: that they're warranted. They're important concerns. Can I just quickly 152 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: dive into a couple of arguments for sleepovers. I'm actually 153 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: an advocate for them, in spite of the risks. If 154 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: we can get sleepovers right and if kids can be safe, 155 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 3: I think sleepovers are fantastic in spite of the fact 156 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: that the kids can be grumpy the next day, and 157 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: in spite of the fact that there can be some 158 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: exclusion going on, and in spite of the fact that 159 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: it's a potentially dangerous thing from a I know I'm 160 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: not making this, I'm not selling it really well, Ama, 161 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 3: But from a social development point of view, research researchers 162 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 3: at the University of Maryland showed that positive peer relationships 163 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: established during childhood sleep can lead to greater social confidence. 164 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: Later in life. 165 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: What happens is that a sleepovers provide like this, this scaffolding. 166 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 3: It supports social development. It gets kids into this event 167 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 3: where they're learning how to navigate friendships and conflicts and 168 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: compromise outside of the typically structured environment of school or home. 169 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: And I don't know that it's healthy or safe to 170 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: protect our kids from that stuff all the time. It's 171 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: good that they end up in those situations so long 172 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: as so long as they have the opportunity to navigate 173 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 3: them with appropriate support, and so long as the environment 174 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 3: supports cooperation and conflict resolution and empathy. So for me, 175 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: I think that the social potential and the fact that 176 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 3: the kids some of my best memories, some of my 177 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 3: best memories are from sleepovers. We didn't have sleepovers when 178 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 3: I was a kid, until I was into my teen years. 179 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: That was just the way it worked in my family. 180 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 3: But Kylie, I remember my friends would stay over. 181 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 4: One night, we went into the pantry, so mum and 182 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: dad had a walk in pantry in this particular house. 183 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 4: Went into the pantry. 184 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: There was two leaders of chocolate chocolate syrup, and one 185 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 3: of my friends, Aaron, said, what will you giving me 186 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: if I drink it? 187 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: You are not doing yourself any favors right now. 188 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: We all said we'd give him five dollars. Back in 189 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: those days, that was a lot for us kids. We 190 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: said we'd give him five dollars if he would drink 191 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: the two leaders of chocolate topping chocolate syrup. 192 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: Disgusting. 193 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 3: He got through a powder leader of it disgusting, but 194 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 3: when he burked. 195 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 4: The whole room just felt like chocolate. I remember those things. 196 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 4: I remember skinny dipping because we all just thought it 197 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 4: was so funny. Were doing a Newdy run down the street. 198 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm all the parents, all of us are 199 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: all screaming no, don't say anything else. 200 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, But the thing is everyone did it 201 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 3: as well, right, And everyone remembers the sleepovers because they 202 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 3: did those dumb things. 203 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: So there's a couple of things that jump out at me. Right, 204 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: I'm not against sleepovers at all, but with all of 205 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: the experience that we've had over the years, I probably 206 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: am against group sleepovers. 207 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 5: Right. 208 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: Large groups have never worked out well. They just never 209 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: have worked out well. I think being a really close 210 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: friend come over and spend the night, or you go 211 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: and spend the night with them. I think there's lots 212 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: of merit to that. 213 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 3: What about camping out in the backyard though we used 214 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: to have just two or three my mates, we'd set 215 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: up a tent in the backyard and we'd camp overnight 216 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 3: in the backyard. We thought it was so awesome. We'd 217 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: go down to the shops and buy a couple of 218 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 3: packets of Hubber Bubba and we would chew gum in 219 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 3: the tent all night and it was just great. 220 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: Well, you didn't let me finish, because the next thing 221 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: was you acknowledged that you didn't actually start having sleepovers 222 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: well into your teens, and that makes a huge difference. 223 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: I remember one of our kids getting a sleepover invite 224 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: as a six year old. Yeah, with a group of 225 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: six year olds, and I just they're not ready for that. 226 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: If you want to if you want to start to 227 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: stretch your kids in a social way, send them to 228 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: grandma's at six, send them to grandma's at eight. 229 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 3: Well, see this is important as well. Sleepovers with friends 230 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: versus sleepovers with family, that's an important distinction, so very different. 231 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: I literally remember having a sleepover at my auntie's house 232 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: when I would have been I want to say, five 233 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: or six. I was really young, and I have a vivid, 234 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: vivid picture in my mind of being in my boy 235 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: cousin's bedroom. So he'd obviously gone. I wasn't sleeping in 236 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: the room with me. I had his room. He had 237 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: trucks on the walls, and I could just see these trucks, 238 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: and I was so scared. I wanted I wanted my 239 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: own familiar space. But there was nowhere to go. There 240 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: was nowhere to you know, there wasn't any way to 241 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: deal with it. I had to be there. 242 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 3: So there's another another cond there's the anxiety of sleepovers 243 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: for little kids. 244 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: So age matters and context matters. 245 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 3: All right, I want to come to those in a second. 246 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 3: Let's just do a quick summary of where we are. First, 247 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,319 Speaker 3: of all the arguments against sleepovers. Number one, there's the 248 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 3: safety concerns. Number two, there's a disruption to routine. Number three, 249 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 3: there's the stuff that goes on in the peer group 250 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 3: that's not positive, and we could add screens as well 251 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: like that, that really changes the dynamic again if screens 252 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 3: are involved. The positives the arguments for sleepovers. There's the 253 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,719 Speaker 3: social development, there's the memories and the bonding that I've 254 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 3: really made a big deal about it. 255 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: But you don't need to have a sleepover to make memories. 256 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 4: No you don't. But research shows that sleepovers can enhance 257 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 4: the emotional bond between kids and contribute to their overall 258 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 4: well being and happiness. 259 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm actually kids doings development when they're drinking one leader 260 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: of chocolate syrup, and it. 261 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 3: Also helps them to build independence and make decisions for themselves. 262 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 3: That's the summary so far. Now there are five things 263 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: that I think we need to bear in mind. And 264 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: time is almost up already, So over the next seventy 265 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 3: to ninety seconds, we are going to whizz through five 266 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 3: things that we should keep in mind when we're talking 267 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 3: about sleepovers. Kyle, you've already touched on the first one. 268 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: The age matters. Age matters because when you're older, you're 269 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 3: less likely to experience harm and abuse. Research shows that 270 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 3: younger kids are at greater risk. They're simply more vulnerable. 271 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: The older you are, the less vulnerable you are. Not 272 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 3: that you're invulnerable, but you're less vulnerable as you get older. 273 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: And when you're older, you're also much more aware. You 274 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 3: get that spidy sense, that well, that feeling you know 275 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: what's a risky situation and what's not, or at least 276 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: you do much more than when you're five or eight 277 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: or eleven. 278 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: I think the kind of personality your child has matters 279 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: as well. 280 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 4: So I would call this assertiveness. 281 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: Have you got a child who's willing to speak up 282 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: and speak out when they're uncomfortable? Will they get in 283 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: touch with an adult, whether it's ring you as mum 284 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: or dad or go to the responsible adult in the house. 285 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 3: Or have they got the guts to just look at 286 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 3: their friends and say stop it, this is not okay? 287 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: Like can they call out bullying? Can they look at 288 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: someone and say what made you think. 289 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 4: That was right? Like having that moral courage. That's what 290 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 4: I call it, the assertiveness, big, big, big deal. 291 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 3: So number one, how old are they and how aware 292 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 3: are they what's going on? Number two, how assertive. Are 293 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: they Number three? 294 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 4: Communication? 295 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: It's so important. Do your kids know that no matter what, 296 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: they can call you? Yeah, they can reach out to 297 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: your things are not going well, which. 298 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 3: Also prompts the question are you going to give them 299 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 3: a phone? If they're too young to normally have a phone, 300 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 3: do they go with the phone? Or if they don't 301 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 3: have a phone, how do they contact you? What if 302 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: the person who's supposed to be the trusted adult in 303 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: this situation is actually unsafe. They can't really say I 304 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 3: need a phone to call my mom because you're scaring me. 305 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: So it's a really, really, really tricky one. Some kids 306 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 3: are going to be so easily swayed by their peers 307 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 3: if things go sideways. Are they able to communicate with 308 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: you and the people around them? 309 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: How well do they know the people that you're leaving 310 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: them with as well? I think that's a really important one. 311 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 4: Okay, so let's call that number four. Let's just talk 312 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 4: about supervision. How many kids are going to be there? 313 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 4: Who else is going to be there? I remember you 314 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 4: telling me a horror story about a sleepover surely after 315 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 4: we were married, where somebody that you knew was inappropriately 316 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 4: touched by an uncle who was visiting from overseas. So 317 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 4: the kids were. 318 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 3: Having the sleepover and everyone in the house was safe, 319 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 3: except oh, hang on, we've got somebody new visiting from overseas. 320 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 3: But they're a trusted adult, right because their family turns 321 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: out they weren't. Horrifying story, absolutely horrifying. So as an adult, 322 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 3: you want to know who's there. And the last thing 323 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 3: that I'm going to bring up is who is going 324 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: to be responsible. We've had conversations with other adults who 325 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: are going to be looking after our kids at sleepovers, 326 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 3: and we've said, is there anyone going to be drinking? 327 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 3: And that matters purely because one time, my parents have 328 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: gone overseas on a holiday and my grandma and grandpa 329 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: were looking after us kids and Nana Pop had a 330 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: couple of drinks one night. They weren't drunk or anything, 331 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 3: but they had a few drinks and they certainly were 332 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 3: not safe to drive. And I was playing a little 333 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: bit rough with my sisters and broke one of my 334 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 3: sister's arms. 335 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 4: I know. So this isn't even a sleepover situation, but 336 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 4: it just prompts the question, if something were to go wrong, 337 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 4: are there responsible adults who are able to get in 338 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 4: the car and get the kids to the hospital or 339 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 4: do something to protect them. Again, unlikely, but not trivial. 340 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 4: Not trivial. This stuff matters. 341 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: So are key points from today's conversation. There are definitely 342 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: a couple of things that go against having sleepovers, and. 343 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 4: They're big things. 344 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,119 Speaker 1: We've got some real concerns around safety for our children. 345 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: There's the disruption to routine and just dealing with the 346 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: tearor child for the next twenty four or forty eight 347 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: hours afterwards, and the challenges around peer pressure and exclusion. 348 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: They're real, and the arguments for it. Let's face it, 349 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: they're downright fun. They're downright they're downright fun. There's so 350 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: much to do, so much fun to have memories to make, 351 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: bonding to create. Yeah, yeah, they're fun. 352 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 4: Okay. 353 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: So here's what I would say, if you're looking for 354 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 3: the upshot of all of this to take home message 355 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: with kids under twelve, stick with a sleep under. Sleep 356 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 3: under also known as a late over, fancy way of saying, 357 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 3: I'll pick you up late and bring you home. You're 358 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 3: not staying over. 359 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 4: So I really like that idea. I reckon it works 360 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: with bigger kids. 361 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 3: I reckon you just roll play practice. What will you 362 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: say things aren't going right. Make sure that they know 363 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: that they can be assertive and the power of doing that. Next, 364 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: make sure they can contact you. Make sure you know 365 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 3: that they're never to enter the room of an adult 366 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 3: or someone of the opposite gender. I think that's super, 367 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: super important. It just keeps them safe. And now it's 368 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: going on with alcohol and supervision and access to screens. 369 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 4: If you do that sort. 370 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 3: Of stuff, pre armed is prepared. Sleepovers are amazing when 371 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 3: they go well, and more often than not most of 372 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: the time they do go well. But keeping our kids 373 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: safe is a priority, so hopefully this helps. The Happy 374 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 3: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rawan from Bridge Media. 375 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 4: Craig Bruce is our executive. 376 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 3: Producer and if you'd like more info about making your 377 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: family happier or to read a written version of this podcast, 378 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: not a transcript, just a written version of the podcast, 379 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 3: check it all out Happy families dot com dot au.