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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line right now is the Civil

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Speaker 1: Contractors Federation nt CEO Tom Harris.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Tom, Yeah, Katie, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Really good. Good to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Tom. Obviously, the budget handed down yesterday a record infrastructure

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Speaker 1: spent from the civil contractors perspective, What was your reaction

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Speaker 1: to the budget? Now?

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Speaker 3: I look at the solid, solid budget and they look

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Speaker 3: they've been good from an infrastructure point of view for

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Speaker 3: a few years now. But the reality is it's how

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Speaker 3: now its procured? You know, how has it rolled out

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Speaker 3: to try and maximize the I guess the broader value

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Speaker 3: for the Northern territory.

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Speaker 2: And Tom, what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 1: Do you sort of mean making sure that it's local

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Speaker 1: contractors winning jobs or what do you mean?

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Speaker 3: No, it's a bit broader than that. The it's a

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Speaker 3: bench like we've got a crazy situation at the moment

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Speaker 3: where we've been told, I guess the industry is going

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Speaker 3: to be busy for the past few years and there's

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Speaker 3: going to be a lot of infrastructure spend and there

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Speaker 3: has been, but we do have a wet dry cycle

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Speaker 3: and it just seems that the budget cycles out of

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Speaker 3: whack with our conditions that you certainly in the top

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Speaker 3: end of the Northern Territory, and we've got situations the

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Speaker 3: moment where we've got contractors letting go staff. So we've

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Speaker 3: got this major push for workforce development. We need to

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Speaker 3: get options through immigration and you know, upskilling and you

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Speaker 3: know more allowing more people to come into our across

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Speaker 3: a broad range of industries to support workforce development across

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Speaker 3: the Northern Territory. But we've got contractors at the moment,

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Speaker 3: so we've records spends, but we've still got people with

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Speaker 3: having to let staff go because while they know there's

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Speaker 3: going to be works coming there, we have held people

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Speaker 3: for a long period of time and it's not transpired.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I'm saying. I think the procurement's got

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Speaker 3: to change and that we've got to enable if we

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Speaker 3: know we've got all these forward works, not only what's

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Speaker 3: been delivered in the Northern Territories budget certainly what'll come

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Speaker 3: flow from the federal government, but also defense and others.

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Speaker 3: We know there's a significant package of works coming and

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Speaker 3: while the MTG can't obviously control defense, yeah, it's got

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Speaker 3: a lot of capital and R and M programs that

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Speaker 3: does control itself. So there needs to be an opportunity

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Speaker 3: for contractors to not be winning spot work and then

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Speaker 3: hoping that they win another job. There should be I

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Speaker 3: think the opportunity to have twelve month twenty four month

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Speaker 3: contracts on different scales across the different regions within the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory to enable contractors to actually have some certain

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Speaker 3: some contracts certainly and projects certainly, so they can start

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Speaker 3: addressing some of these labor labor issues and looking to

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Speaker 3: build and build their business and you know, knock out

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Speaker 3: the construction that's required for the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: It makes sense.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, even a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about that defense infrastructure and the review that

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Speaker 1: was underway, and I hadn't really thought of it from

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Speaker 1: that perspective, but it does mean that there'd be a

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Speaker 1: real holding pattern then for a lot of businesses that

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Speaker 1: are waiting to see, you know, when this work's going

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Speaker 1: to get underway and what it's going to mean for them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, there's of course everything and Sippl's been

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Speaker 3: you know, we've been trying to battle this bottom for

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Speaker 3: years now, this cycle of the on the off and

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Speaker 3: then you know, the MTG trying to land on a

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Speaker 3: budget number, like so the department, you know, the various

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Speaker 3: departments that have got spending that relates to in our

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Speaker 3: co civil you know, they're all trying to land on

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Speaker 3: a budget number at June thirty. So there's different times

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Speaker 3: now either trying to spend more or they're trying to

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Speaker 3: pull back on spending because of their current cash flow

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Speaker 3: that they're expected to hit on thirty June. So but

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Speaker 3: then you've got this, all this potential out there, and

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Speaker 3: you know, all these things that are coming, and so

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Speaker 3: it's all good, it's coming. We're going to have this,

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Speaker 3: We're going to have this. And so we've got items

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Speaker 3: that probably should be tendered you know in January, February,

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Speaker 3: March that maybe get assessed in April, May, maybe for

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Speaker 3: an award late May, June, but none of that seems

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Speaker 3: to happen, and we get out of the blocks late.

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Speaker 3: We end up getting out of September. So on the

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Speaker 3: top end point of view, you know, so you can

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Speaker 3: get a few good months of construction and then you know,

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Speaker 3: depending on the wet season and depending on where you are,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't mean you can't work in the wet there's

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Speaker 3: plenty of opportunities to work in the wet but you know,

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Speaker 3: depending on what the activity you're undertaking at the time

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Speaker 3: will potentially impact you quite dramatically. And then we got

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Speaker 3: your potentially go under this slow period and again all

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Speaker 3: this work. We know there's absolute hurdles will work out there.

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Speaker 3: I mean that is you know that that looks to

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Speaker 3: beyond the books and that's great, but yeah, definitely there

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Speaker 3: needs to be changes to give business, certainly the civil

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Speaker 3: contractors because otherwise they're going to struggle with the way

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Speaker 3: it's currently a film's currently carried out. I think they're

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Speaker 3: going to struggle to the deliver.

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Speaker 2: So Tom, how do.

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Speaker 1: You make sure that that change does come to fruition

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Speaker 1: so that you know, so that our civil contractors in

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Speaker 1: the territory are able to you know, to make the

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Speaker 1: most of the money that is in the in the budget.

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Speaker 3: Looks there had been some changes, So think the Northern

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Speaker 3: territory governments. You know, there are various federal road funding agreements.

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Speaker 3: There is a little bit more flexibility with the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory to have some short and through budgets that they've

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Speaker 3: they've got the funding there, but probably internally you know,

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Speaker 3: so there needs to be more work on that in

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Speaker 3: that regard that they can load for multiple needs, and

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Speaker 3: that has happened on some of our really large projects,

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Speaker 3: and there is that a couple of our bigger contractors

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Speaker 3: do have certainty over a number of years, but the

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Speaker 3: bulk of our civil you know, our local Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: civil construction companies don't have that shorty of that certainty

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Speaker 3: and so it definitely needs to change and there needs

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Speaker 3: to be that ability I think put the ONTG to

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Speaker 3: give some certainty across the various budget cycles and as

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Speaker 3: I said, be able to award you know, maybe multi

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Speaker 3: stage contracts to contractors, so then you know, they tender

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Speaker 3: on the basis of stage one and they'll hopefully if

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Speaker 3: they complete that in a you know, obviously a timely

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Speaker 3: manner within budget and a good job with the construction,

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Speaker 3: you move onto you know as previously Greek stage too

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Speaker 3: and if that doesn't occur, then it's back out to

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Speaker 3: the you know, into the open tender market. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: there should be I mean, we've been told about what's

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Speaker 3: been spreaked about how you know, there's all this investment

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Speaker 3: in infrastructure, and there is it's got some numbers against it. Well,

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Speaker 3: there should reason why the bulk of our contractors shouldn't

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Speaker 3: have guaranteed works for the next twelve to twenty four months. Yes,

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Speaker 3: And that way you can build your business, you can

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Speaker 3: support the economy, keep the people employed. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 3: can build. You can look to take on more trainees

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Speaker 3: and you know, whether it be indigenous development, whether it

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Speaker 3: be offshore supplements in your workforce with offshore workers. But

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Speaker 3: you can you can actually make that commitment. There's no

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Speaker 3: good having all the everyone'm looking to drive for offshore

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Speaker 3: and immigration options and all the rest of that when

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Speaker 3: there's no certainty for those companies that have contract certainty

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Speaker 3: to underpin the employment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It makes sense Tom that you know that it would

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Speaker 1: change that way. So I guess from your perspective, from

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Speaker 1: the civil contractors perspective, it does seem as though there's

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Speaker 1: some real positives in terms of those numbers with the

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Speaker 1: you know, with the money being invested into roads and

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Speaker 1: that construction work, but having to make sure that it

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Speaker 1: is sort of managed in such a way that our

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Speaker 1: contractors are able to have that certainty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they need that because a lot of them, as

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Speaker 3: I said, there are some significant, large projects in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory. Government have done a good thing, you know,

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Speaker 3: they package those appropriately, so the ongoing works for you know,

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Speaker 3: both the prime contractor and a number of subcontractors that

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Speaker 3: work under them. But the vast majority of the industry

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Speaker 3: here we need, as I said, they literally spot works.

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Speaker 3: You go through a tender process. You might have four

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Speaker 3: or five six tenders out there at any given time.

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Speaker 3: It cost you money to put the tenders together, but

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Speaker 3: then you're waiting. You'd have no there's no certainty, so

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Speaker 3: you'll hold your core people, you know, and there's only

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Speaker 3: so much you can do around the yard. There's only

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Speaker 3: only so much maintenance you can do, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's there's so many times you can playing the depot

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Speaker 3: and all those sort of things, and that's that's the problem.

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Speaker 3: They'll hold them as long as they can, but it's

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Speaker 3: not a good it's not a good way to run

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Speaker 3: a business. I think, you know, more resources probably need

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Speaker 3: to be found internally within you know, in the j's respect,

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Speaker 3: in those divisions that look after infrastructure, there probably needs

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Speaker 3: to be some more resources allocated to trying to assist

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Speaker 3: a lot of that. More forward planning and the procurement

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Speaker 3: planning and also the shareduling and the regional you know,

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Speaker 3: when you're moving in and out of regional areas, trying

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Speaker 3: to make sure these projects are one one behind the other,

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Speaker 3: you know, so that you can roll in if there's

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Speaker 3: a mob and demail, which are quite large costs of

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Speaker 3: rolling in of workforce, accommodation, potentially plant and equipment. Well,

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Speaker 3: make sure that there's actually other packages that you can

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Speaker 3: in that regional area that are able to be delivered.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're looking at indigenous you know, BOSE business

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Speaker 3: improved and opportunities, but also individual unemployment opportunities. Well you

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Speaker 3: need you know, those on opportunities in those regions. You

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Speaker 3: can't just have this work going in the one off opportunity.

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Speaker 1: I think it's through Like, I actually think it's a

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Speaker 1: really important discussion to have because you know, we all

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Speaker 1: sort of hear these headline numbers and go, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, billions of dollars into infrastructure and roads and

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. That's wonderful, But then you don't

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Speaker 1: really a lot of us unless you work in that industry,

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Speaker 1: you don't really understand then, you know, what it is

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Speaker 1: like for some of our contractors trying to deal with

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Speaker 1: juggling those jobs and not knowing exactly when that money

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Speaker 1: is going to roll out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean there's and there's multiple cases where

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Speaker 3: things do roll over from budget to budget. I mean,

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Speaker 3: and that's the thing you do see that. Look, the

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Speaker 3: numbers are good from a territory perspective in infrastructure, but

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Speaker 3: the numbers like you know, there'll be a it's four

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Speaker 3: point zero seven three billion in infrastructure this year, but

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Speaker 3: in actual fact, the year on year the cash spends

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Speaker 3: one point two five billion. The rest of it will

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Speaker 3: roll over to another year. Yeah, Like this year's number,

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Speaker 3: there was a revote's called revote in the MTG and

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Speaker 3: it's money that's been from previous year rolled in. So

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Speaker 3: there was two points of the four just over four

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Speaker 3: billion two seven six eight billion of that from what

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Speaker 3: was from last years budget that gets rolled in. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: issue another two point eight billion goes out or roll

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Speaker 3: into next year's budgets. So it's look at their good numbers,

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Speaker 3: but you know they look at it, look at the

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Speaker 3: sexes and they probably really are you know, there's multi

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Speaker 3: year there's some multi year commitments. So I just want

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Speaker 3: to highlight.

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Speaker 2: That no, which I think I think it's important to highlight.

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Speaker 1: It is something that Robin Lambley had touched on with

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Speaker 1: us a bit earlier this morning as well, because you're right,

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Speaker 1: you know that headline number is always a sexy number

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Speaker 1: for them to have in a pressure release, but when

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Speaker 1: you actually delve into it, it's a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Tom, just stepping away you know, from some.

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Speaker 1: Of those those issues just for a moment and looking

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Speaker 1: at you know, the investment that we are going to

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Speaker 1: see in roads for example, what what do you reckon

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Speaker 1: that additional funding is going to mean in terms of

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Speaker 1: connectivity around.

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Speaker 3: The territory dramatic It's going to give great opportunities, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether big tourism defends agriculture, cattle, community development, indigenous advancement,

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Speaker 3: there's you know the general liveability, recreational opportunities for the

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Speaker 3: general community members for territory liveability as it's all those

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Speaker 3: sort of things. Yeah, this is going to go what

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Speaker 3: the next few years is going to go a long

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Speaker 3: way to making it a far better place to live

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Speaker 3: and play. And certainly you know then all the other

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Speaker 3: defense and other opportunities business, larger project development options, mining

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Speaker 3: and other things that come on the back of that

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Speaker 3: with better infrastructure. Yeah, it's just going to improve across

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Speaker 3: a wide range of businesses and also the general community.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, look it's we always need infrastructure. You know,

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Speaker 3: the infrastructure spend. You've probably been in a deficit scenarios

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Speaker 3: in self government to be honest, when you know the

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Speaker 3: INTG and the councils you inherited tens of thousands kilometers

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Speaker 3: of road network. There's never enough money each year to

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Speaker 3: probably do it justice. But I guess there's now we're

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Speaker 3: starting to see the numbers that are actually making significant headway.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, as long as it looks like it's going

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Speaker 3: to continue and it probably does need to for the

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Speaker 3: next twenty odd years, the increases in that infrastructure spend

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Speaker 3: to make the territory about a place to live and

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Speaker 3: play well.

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Speaker 2: Several contractors.

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Speaker 1: Federation NT CEO Tom Harris always enjoy a chat with

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Speaker 1: you mate. Thank you so much for having a chat

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Speaker 1: with us this morning.

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Speaker 3: Not a problem take Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks