Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Susie Burrow and I'm LeAnn Wood, and welcome
Speaker 1: to the Nutrition Couch, a weekly podcast from two of
Speaker 1: Australia's leading dietitians, bringing you everything that is new in
Speaker 1: the world of nutrition, diets and good food from the
Speaker 1: Nutrition Couch. Today. Christmas is almost here, and so today
Speaker 1: we share our best tips to prevent any Christmas kilos.
Speaker 1: Our client case study is on meal replacement shakes and
Speaker 1: how you can use them to support your weight loss goals.
Speaker 1: We take a closer look at one of the many
Speaker 1: zero alcohol wines you can now find, and our listener
Speaker 1: question is how to say no to food when it's
Speaker 1: on offer at Christmas time. But to start us off,
Speaker 1: it's our very last episode before Christmas, and we just
Speaker 1: wanted to take a few minutes to whish all of
Speaker 1: our listeners are very merry Christmas and a safe and
Speaker 1: happy holiday. Agent Williant and we.
Speaker 2: Will be back Sunday, January the ninth with the latest
Speaker 2: in nutrition news, media trends and new food products. But
Speaker 2: up until then, guys, we really hope everybody has a happy,
Speaker 2: safe and nourished festive season too.
Speaker 1: I'll be looking forward to a brand new year with
Speaker 1: a new baby. Yes, that might change the conversation a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 2: This is pre recorded, FYI. Yeah, so I really hope
Speaker 2: she's out by now, guys, But keep watching our social
Speaker 2: media and I will let you know and.
Speaker 1: We will catch up in the new year. But we
Speaker 1: are recording in advance, and that's why there's a bit
Speaker 1: of a disconnect between when we're talking now and when
Speaker 1: Leanne has the baby. But we'll be sure to put
Speaker 1: a gorgeous photo as soon as we can on our
Speaker 1: Instagram over the holiday break. But I think it's the
Speaker 1: topic we wanted to talk about today. Was sort of
Speaker 1: a no brainer because over the last few weeks and
Speaker 1: even months, I've been spending a lot of time with
Speaker 1: my own clients and talking about how to actively prevent
Speaker 1: weight game over the holiday period. And when we take
Speaker 1: a look at the research around holiday and specifically Christmas
Speaker 1: weight game, it's pretty strong research to show that the
Speaker 1: average adult will gain at least a kilo or two.
Speaker 1: And the most concerning thing about that is that we've
Speaker 1: tracked it and know that that weight is ready lost again.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of weight that is that insidious creep
Speaker 1: over time and we start another year a little bit heavier,
Speaker 1: and it just continues to grow. And a really interesting
Speaker 1: research study that I had looked up because I was
Speaker 1: writing an article on this recently was an active intervention
Speaker 1: in the UK to help people try and prevent weight
Speaker 1: gain over the period. And one of these strategies was
Speaker 1: to weigh themselves quite regularly throughout the period, but also
Speaker 1: take some active steps around calorie consumption and exercise to
Speaker 1: help prevent weight gain. And the most significant predictor of
Speaker 1: weight gain preventionally and was weighing yourself. Now, I know
Speaker 1: that that can be a controversial area. A lot of people,
Speaker 1: myself included, are not wayers. We don't hop on the
Speaker 1: scales very often. But in its defense, what I would
Speaker 1: say is keeping an eye on your weight, whether it's
Speaker 1: weighing or even just measuring your waist or a belt measurement,
Speaker 1: is quite powerful in tracking because what we do know
Speaker 1: is that it's much much harder to get weight off
Speaker 1: once it's there, and the prevention is actually much more
Speaker 1: much easier to do and assimilate. So you know, keeping
Speaker 1: an eye on the scales and helping to prevent the
Speaker 1: creep is very a thing that you can do that
Speaker 1: has an evidence based around it. But for mely and
Speaker 1: when we go into this period, for me, it's about mindset,
Speaker 1: because I think subconsciously we give ourselves permission to gain weight,
Speaker 1: and in the sense that we might skip gym sessions,
Speaker 1: or give ourselves permission not to exercise, or use the
Speaker 1: holidays as an excuse rather than an opportunity, and basically
Speaker 1: throw any kind of food rule out the window and
Speaker 1: give ourselves permission to eat vast quantities of foods we
Speaker 1: never normally would saying because it's Christmas, Whereas I think
Speaker 1: that if you go into Christmas with the mindset that is, sure,
Speaker 1: I'm going to indulge in enjoy foods, but I'm not
Speaker 1: going to overeat and do minimal exercise. That's sort of
Speaker 1: the shift I like to see with my clients, and
Speaker 1: going into it as an opportunity sometimes to move more
Speaker 1: and take more control of your nutrition, of course, still
Speaker 1: whilst enjoying those key holiday dates. What are your main
Speaker 1: tips for your clients at this time of year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I agree with you, like I don't think
Speaker 2: it's more so people give themselves permission to gain weight.
Speaker 2: I think they just they kind of don't think about it.
Speaker 2: Or it's just something that I think is like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: it's Christmas, like whatever, and then they kind of put
Speaker 2: on a couple of kilos in January and they're like,
Speaker 2: oh crap, what happened. It's almost like we kind of
Speaker 2: we don't think about it and we don't plan for it,
Speaker 2: and then it's too late. By the time we do
Speaker 2: jump on the scales or put on a you know,
Speaker 2: favorite pair of jeans in January, we're like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: these are like really tight. So I think it's just
Speaker 2: a little bit of sort of pre planning ahead. And
Speaker 2: if you know that you're someone who tends to start
Speaker 2: a new diet on January the first, or you know,
Speaker 2: be really disappointed with yourself in January because all your
Speaker 2: hard work's been undone. I think it's just a little
Speaker 2: bit of that pre planning. And as you mentioned, Susie's
Speaker 2: about that mentality and giving up that sort of all
Speaker 2: or nothing mentality where just because it's Christmas it means
Speaker 2: that we need to overindulge. We absolutely don't. Of course,
Speaker 2: we can have some treats. Of course, we can have
Speaker 2: some delicious food and a few drinks and skip a
Speaker 2: couple of gym sessions if we want, but we absolutely
Speaker 2: need to aim for balance. Don't stop moving just because
Speaker 2: it's December, don't stop eating your salad just because it's
Speaker 2: Christmas Day. All of these wonderful things that we do
Speaker 2: from a health perspective still matter and still count. And
Speaker 2: I think for my clients, I'm really you know, getting
Speaker 2: them to be quite mindful with social eating and particularly
Speaker 2: drinking and just watching calories from drinks just alcohol. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of just juices, cordials, you know, fancy mocktails,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing around this time of year. You know,
Speaker 2: they go hand in hand with the extra socializing as well.
Speaker 2: So I'm always wanted to say sort of try not
Speaker 2: to drink your calories because it's just not that filling.
Speaker 2: So whenever I'm at a restaurant, I'll basically just have
Speaker 2: a coffee or I'll have a glass of water. That's
Speaker 2: pretty much my ordun ninety percent of the time from
Speaker 2: a drink perspective, I would much rather sort of eat
Speaker 2: my calories because it's a lot more fillings. So I
Speaker 2: think just doing some simple swaps this time of year
Speaker 2: can be really really helpful and not sort of putting
Speaker 2: your head in the sand and then coming out in
Speaker 2: January and being like, oh crap, now I've put on
Speaker 2: a couple of keel as. Now I have to lose
Speaker 2: it again. It's much easier to just maintain balance over
Speaker 2: December and then maintain balance over January than it is
Speaker 2: to sort of blow out in December and then have
Speaker 2: to restart over in January. So I agree with you.
Speaker 2: I think it's more around that, just sort of thinking
Speaker 2: about what's happened to you in previous years and if
Speaker 2: you didn't feel great come January in previous years, and
Speaker 2: now is the time that we can do something about it.
Speaker 1: A couple of other things you said. You were talking
Speaker 1: a lot about timing, And I also find that people
Speaker 1: are often overeating right through December and all of January
Speaker 1: and write it off as Christmas, when really Christmas is
Speaker 1: a day or two. So really isolating those special occasions
Speaker 1: and specifically special occasions in which to eat more indulgent
Speaker 1: foods I think is quite powerful. And then remember once
Speaker 1: you get to Boxing Day or the twenty seventh, it's
Speaker 1: okay to go back to regular or even lighter eating
Speaker 1: as a way to compensate for that over consumption. And
Speaker 1: I know that sometimes there's a bit of resistance around
Speaker 1: promoting restrictive diets or buffering the effect of calories. But
Speaker 1: I think look, as human beings, we accept that at
Speaker 1: times we will eat too much. I think it's reasonable
Speaker 1: to expect the times we might eat lightly. And I
Speaker 1: think that makes perfect sense. If you've had some really
Speaker 1: heavy meals with desserts and treats and cheese platters and
Speaker 1: a whole array of extras you wouldn't normally have for me,
Speaker 1: it makes sense that you would then have a day
Speaker 1: or two with light salads and fresh summer fruit and
Speaker 1: some light seafood to buffer it out. You know, we
Speaker 1: can't just keep eating and eating and eating. And the
Speaker 1: other key thing I observe with my clients is that
Speaker 1: when I have a holiday period, I am excited because
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to have more time to exercise,
Speaker 1: whereas my clients are like, oh, who, I don't have
Speaker 1: to go and do exercise. So I think, you know,
Speaker 1: looking at the days off as as an opportunity to
Speaker 1: move more rather than an excuse to do less. Is
Speaker 1: it crucial. And it doesn't have to be flogging yourself
Speaker 1: at the gym. It can be a beach extra beach
Speaker 1: walks or backyard cricket or that. It's definitely no excuse
Speaker 1: really to not be at least getting your steps in
Speaker 1: and it will be better for your digestion, it will
Speaker 1: be better for your sleep if you just still get
Speaker 1: those steps up and make the most of the longer days.
Speaker 1: So I think that's a really important part of it.
Speaker 1: And making the most of time with friends and family,
Speaker 1: or you might want time away from friends and family
Speaker 1: and use it is an excuse to go and walk.
Speaker 1: So definitely it's not an excuse to do less. If anything,
Speaker 1: I would say it's time to do more.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, involve the whole family. If
Speaker 2: they're not driving you insane by twenty fifth December, you know,
Speaker 2: go on, go on some hikes with the family, Go
Speaker 2: explore your local area, go find a new park, or
Speaker 2: if the kids want to go play at the park,
Speaker 2: there's no reason you can't do a park workout while
Speaker 2: they're there, or if they want to go on that
Speaker 2: ride their bikes out at the local I don't know
Speaker 2: when well kids, Mom used to take us down to
Speaker 2: the supermarket once it had closed, because you know, they
Speaker 2: had the speed humps and we'd like ride over them
Speaker 2: with their bikes. It was so fun when we were kids.
Speaker 2: You know, you can do your workout, or you can
Speaker 2: do some extra walking, extra steps around there while the
Speaker 2: kids are on their skateboards or their bikes. So really
Speaker 2: use it as a time that the whole family can
Speaker 2: get active. You know, the kids are stopping school soon
Speaker 2: or you know once this podcasts as long as the
Speaker 2: kids have stopped school, so you know they're generally moving less.
Speaker 2: So instead of letting them spend hours in front of
Speaker 2: the TV or screens all that sort of thing, get
Speaker 2: them out into the fresh air and use it as
Speaker 2: a way that the whole family can get active and,
Speaker 2: as Susie said, be a little bit more active, because
Speaker 2: it's definitely the time of year that we want to
Speaker 2: start listening to our bodies and letting go of the rules.
Speaker 2: We don't have to eat breakfast just because we wake up.
Speaker 2: If we wake up and we're not feeling hungry, honor
Speaker 2: that hunger, and you don't have to eat anything until
Speaker 2: you do feel hungry. But if you wake up and
Speaker 2: you're feeling really hungry, well then that's great. You can
Speaker 2: eat breakfast as well. I think we have a lot
Speaker 2: of too many sort of like rules or structure for
Speaker 2: sort of fifty percent of people, and the other fifty
Speaker 2: percent of people don't have enough structure within their day
Speaker 2: and they're too flexible and they're completely off track. So
Speaker 2: I think having that little bit of structure but not
Speaker 2: being too rigid with diet rules and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: This timing year, it's nice to find a healthy balance.
Speaker 2: So really try to tune in, listen to your body,
Speaker 2: and get the whole family involved in extra movement and
Speaker 2: activity at this time of the year. I think it
Speaker 2: is some really wonderful health focus behaviors.
Speaker 1: And I think the other tip that I would give
Speaker 1: is you've got to get the leftovers out of the house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because if you have lashings of pudding and cakes and chocolate,
Speaker 1: ginger world houses keep eating. So I try and get
Speaker 1: it out of the house as quickly as possible, give
Speaker 1: it away, let people take it to work where you
Speaker 1: can gift it. Because if it is there, that's the
Speaker 1: biggest predictor of food consumption, it's availability. So if it's
Speaker 1: in the house and you open the fridge and you
Speaker 1: see it, you'll keep eating it. So even freeze things
Speaker 1: if you can, so you've got meals for later. But
Speaker 1: definitely those more indulgent foods that really are special occasion
Speaker 1: foods and not foods we can eat every single day.
Speaker 1: The best to get it out of the house because
Speaker 1: otherwise you'll still be overeating. Come gendery, and that's where
Speaker 1: the extra kilos come from. It's not from the one
Speaker 1: off meal on Christmas Day. It's the overeating that occurs
Speaker 1: over several weeks. So that's another big tip. Give it away,
Speaker 1: leave it at people's houses, don't take it home, get
Speaker 1: rid of it because ultimately there's probably calories that we
Speaker 1: don't need or even really want, but we will eat
Speaker 1: what's readily available.
Speaker 2: And my last tip, Susie and my family is absolutely
Speaker 2: the worst for this. It's buying too much food at
Speaker 2: this time of year. Like my mom puts out, like,
Speaker 2: oh my goodness, like the cheese platters and that black
Speaker 2: bless her, she's a sweetheart. The cheese platters and the
Speaker 2: fresh food and the pretzels and their puddings and all
Speaker 2: the homemade biscuits, and that's like the pre lunch meal.
Speaker 2: And then we've done breakfast with Davis family, lunch with
Speaker 2: my family. We've got dinner with David's family, and it's
Speaker 2: like Mom does like a six course meal just for lunch.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Mom, don't buy all that stuff. And as
Speaker 2: you go through Colls or wherever you do your supermarket shopping,
Speaker 2: you look into people's trolleys and they're just absolutely loaded.
Speaker 2: So we're just buying too much food at this time
Speaker 2: of year. So think about food wastage as well, guys.
Speaker 2: And I'm on board with this because my family does
Speaker 2: it not so great at all. We always have too
Speaker 2: much food, so we don't need that much food as
Speaker 2: adultsal is what we think. We like, nobody is going to,
Speaker 2: I hope, go hungry at Christmas time. So maybe you know,
Speaker 2: if you're thinking, oh, buy this just in case, or
Speaker 2: I buy this treat just in case, probably not need it.
Speaker 2: So if you're someone that really struggles to get rid
Speaker 2: of the leftovers and that sort of thing after Christmas,
Speaker 2: I think buying less is a great strategy to begin
Speaker 2: with because people, especially if you're having guests over rarely
Speaker 2: people come empty handed. You'll end up with so much
Speaker 2: more food than just what you buy. So I think
Speaker 2: not buying too much is a great strategy to begin with,
Speaker 2: and I'm on board with you guys. This year, I'm
Speaker 2: going to try and minimize some food waste from my family,
Speaker 2: so I'll be That'll be a goal that I'm sort
Speaker 2: of setting for my family this year is not buying
Speaker 2: more than we actually need.
Speaker 1: Can I say, I saw a photo of your mum.
Speaker 1: She is tiny. She is a tiny human.
Speaker 2: What does she weigh?
Speaker 1: Like forty kilos?
Speaker 2: She maybe forty five forty six. I've been trying to
Speaker 2: I had her on sausage in for a while.
Speaker 1: Does she eat it? I bet she doesn't eat all
Speaker 1: that food. No, no, no, no, she's a feeder. Probably not
Speaker 1: eat it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's a feeder. She's definitely her Her love
Speaker 2: language is food. She's a feeder.
Speaker 1: She doesn't eat very much.
Speaker 2: I've seen her. She's tiny. She's Malaysian, so she's, you know,
Speaker 2: naturally quite short and quite small. She's very more but yeah, blessed.
Speaker 2: She's all about the food. But she's busy preparing everything exactly.
Speaker 1: She doesn't so exactly. That's interesting to watch it Christmas
Speaker 1: as well. I always get clients to observe others eating
Speaker 1: behavior because there'll be ones you prepare all the food,
Speaker 1: but they don't eat it, So you got to be onto.
Speaker 2: Those and the ones that don't prepare anybod eat at all.
Speaker 2: Exactly wonderful. So a topic, Susie that's come up a
Speaker 2: few times via Instagram messages is in relation to meal
Speaker 2: replacement checks, and I know that I myself have used
Speaker 2: them in the past, particularly when I was working at
Speaker 2: the hospital for a lot of patients are pre surgery.
Speaker 2: A lot of our surgeons actually specifically requested a couple
Speaker 2: of our patients go on to very low calorie diets
Speaker 2: using meal replacements before surgery. It is particularly elective type procedures.
Speaker 2: So that's sort of the only area I really used
Speaker 2: them in my bass. I don't really use them in
Speaker 2: my clinic these days, but I know you had a
Speaker 2: bit of an interesting case study with a client using
Speaker 2: some meal replacements, didn't you, Susie.
Speaker 1: I did, and I thought we have had a few
Speaker 1: questions about them now. A meal replacement shake is a
Speaker 1: scientifically formulated product that has a macronutrient sorry micronutrient or
Speaker 1: vitamin and mineral profile of a meal for significantly fewer calories.
Speaker 1: So they're usually about two hundred calories, very controlled amount
Speaker 1: generally of carbohydrate and protein formulated to tick the box
Speaker 1: and a number of those nutrients. So meal replacements can
Speaker 1: be marketed as an entire Mirr replacement, low calorie diet,
Speaker 1: which may be used before surgery as you described, where
Speaker 1: people replace three meals a day with a bar, a
Speaker 1: soup or a shake and then a little bit of
Speaker 1: salad or vegetables. Or you also see them used as
Speaker 1: a single meal replacement, perhaps as a breakfast or a dinner,
Speaker 1: as a low calorie option. Now it should be said
Speaker 1: lely and these are a different from protein shakes. So
Speaker 1: protein shake may just have the nutrient protein in them
Speaker 1: and then you consume them with water or milk, whereas
Speaker 1: a formulated meal replacement will have a range of those
Speaker 1: different nutrients in it. They're quite different things, and so
Speaker 1: a protein shake is not a meal replacement, but a
Speaker 1: Mirr replacement could be considered a protein shake. So that's
Speaker 1: the difference. So I have used them, as have you
Speaker 1: with surgeons pre surgery, to reduce the size of the liver.
Speaker 1: If they are followed, they can induce keytoe, which is
Speaker 1: fat burning because the low calorie and low carbohydrate load
Speaker 1: induces ketosis in which you can lose weight relatively quickly,
Speaker 1: and as such they can be used as a prescription
Speaker 1: for people who have significant amounts of weight to lose
Speaker 1: weight quickly, and indeed there's a growing evidence space to
Speaker 1: show they're quite powerful and helping to reverse type two
Speaker 1: diabetes if they can be followed. The issue for me,
Speaker 1: of course, with me replacement, is that it's quite a
Speaker 1: diet to be following. You know, I generally, as a
Speaker 1: dietian try and encourage my clients to eat whole foods
Speaker 1: and fresh, natural food and I would always much prefer
Speaker 1: them to be eating as opposed to swapping a meal
Speaker 1: fresh shake. But I do use shakes, and if I
Speaker 1: have a client who wants quick weight loss or has say,
Speaker 1: you know, it is one hundred and fifty kilos and
Speaker 1: needs to lose twenty or thirty kilos very quickly, or
Speaker 1: wants to I will absolutely use them if they're open
Speaker 1: to it, or they may like it and have had
Speaker 1: great success in the past. And of course then there's
Speaker 1: always an art to returning to a normal diet and
Speaker 1: grading up so you don't instantly regain that weight. But
Speaker 1: the client case study that I thought was quite relevant
Speaker 1: was I've had a female client who has severe insulin resistance,
Speaker 1: and she had lost using a general calorie controlled macro
Speaker 1: nutriment balance plan a good twenty I want to say,
Speaker 1: at least twenty kilos, and then she had quite a
Speaker 1: significant weight plateau, so she really was struggling. She'd hurt
Speaker 1: her ankle so was unable to do a lot of
Speaker 1: structured activity. She was also a teacher, so I was
Speaker 1: doing marking and spending a lot of time sitting working
Speaker 1: at home, and she said to me, look, I want
Speaker 1: to I'm going to do mirror replacements for a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks just to get kick off the weight loss again.
Speaker 1: And so she has been doing two mirror replacements a
Speaker 1: day and then one small meal, so still coming in
Speaker 1: about eight hundred two one thousand calories while she's so inactive,
Speaker 1: and you know she's continued now to lose another close
Speaker 1: to ten kilos just by having losing a kilo a
Speaker 1: week by this model. Now she I would say, Leanne
Speaker 1: is an anomaly. Most people I find have a lot
Speaker 1: of difficulty following that kind of strict regime for any
Speaker 1: extended period of time. And hence my reluctance to commend
Speaker 1: or suggest it because I really like to try programs
Speaker 1: that people can sustain long term. But for that client,
Speaker 1: it was the right choice, and she asked about it,
Speaker 1: and I've just guided the process, and then our job
Speaker 1: will be to guide her to get her to her
Speaker 1: goal weight, but then make sure she doesn't regain the
Speaker 1: weight once she stops using the MI replacement shakes. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they are absolutely a viable option, and I
Speaker 1: do use them, and I use them in both of
Speaker 1: those ways, either as a single MI replacement as a buffer,
Speaker 1: perhaps part of a fast stay if someone was doing
Speaker 1: a five hundred calorie diet once or twice a week,
Speaker 1: as a convenient meal on the go for busy people
Speaker 1: and in those extreme cases, or perhaps for people with
Speaker 1: very high risk of type two diabetes. There is an
Speaker 1: evidence space to support their use as a total mirror
Speaker 1: replacement program. What I would say is, if you are
Speaker 1: starting the new year, and we will indeed spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time on New Year's diets in January when
Speaker 1: we come back on the nutrition couch, if you do
Speaker 1: think that you would like to try a shape program
Speaker 1: or incorporate shakes as part of your weight control plan
Speaker 1: moving forward. You will get much better results in investing
Speaker 1: seeing a diety to guide you through the process because
Speaker 1: there is a process to it, particularly if you do
Speaker 1: full meal replacement for a period and then grade up
Speaker 1: to regular eating, and you will get much better results
Speaker 1: working with a dietitian to guide that than if you
Speaker 1: do it on your own, because there's an art to it,
Speaker 1: as is the art of dietetics. And as I said
Speaker 1: with my client, I believe one of the reasons she's
Speaker 1: had such success is that we've worked closely together to
Speaker 1: manage hunger and strategy around that with the goal of
Speaker 1: not allowing that weight to be regained long term. So
Speaker 1: that would be my best advice. Any diet, including meal
Speaker 1: replacement or VLCD, will work, but the art to it
Speaker 1: is making sure that you adjust to normal eating again
Speaker 1: the right way to basically not undo all of your
Speaker 1: hard work. So that's probably my take home message. Yes,
Speaker 1: they're a viable option for the right person, but you
Speaker 1: will get better results if you do it under supervision.
Speaker 2: And I think the key message is really the right person,
Speaker 2: because I don't really use them for my clients because
Speaker 2: they're just not feeling like you really have to be
Speaker 2: so so motivated, you know, for pre surgery clients at
Speaker 2: the hospital, they were because the surgeons were basically like,
Speaker 2: you're not getting you knee replacement or you're not getting
Speaker 2: your you know, your bariotric surgery unless you actually do
Speaker 2: this probably for two four weeks, we'll just keep bumping
Speaker 2: your surgery. So their motivation levels were really really high.
Speaker 2: But I feel like a lot of people, you know,
Speaker 2: in the general sort of public, will use them just
Speaker 2: to sort of replace one meal versus using the full
Speaker 2: two to three shakes a day as part of the
Speaker 2: VSD program. So I really do think that if you
Speaker 2: are going to use them, as Susie said, make sure
Speaker 2: you're doing it in combination with the dietition because that
Speaker 2: such low calorie, like you're not just losing fat stores,
Speaker 2: you're also losing your muscle mass as well, so metabolically
Speaker 2: you're just going to you're not going to be great
Speaker 2: long term, and it's very very easy for that weight
Speaker 2: to come straight back on again the minute you return
Speaker 2: to a normal eating Your calories have to be slowly
Speaker 2: increased over time, and as you start to introduce more
Speaker 2: carbohydrate favorite gram of carbohydrate, you eat, your body stores
Speaker 2: two to three grams of essentially water or fluid, so
Speaker 2: those scale is going to increase, but it might not
Speaker 2: necessarily be fat gain as you start to reintroduce some
Speaker 2: of the carbohydrates into the diet as well. But I
Speaker 2: think the biggest thing is to make sure those shakes
Speaker 2: are nutritionally complete. So, as Susie said, it's not just
Speaker 2: a protein shake. It's not just a random product you
Speaker 2: find offline that has a bit of greens powder mixed
Speaker 2: into it in a bit of protein. It needs to
Speaker 2: be nutritionally complete, have all of our micronutrients plus our
Speaker 2: macro nutrients. So really on the box of the product,
Speaker 2: and probably the two biggest ones that come to mind,
Speaker 2: Susie are optifast and opti slim. I think Tony Ferguson
Speaker 2: does another one as well. Those three from memory are
Speaker 2: all nutritionally complete. A lot of the other brands online
Speaker 2: or what influences promote and that sort of thing, are
Speaker 2: more just either protein shakes or quote unquote mer replacements,
Speaker 2: but they're not actually nutritionally complete, so they're lacking in
Speaker 2: a lot of our micro nutrients as well. So I
Speaker 2: think just really as you said, Zuzie, I think the
Speaker 2: easiest option is just to go and see a dietitian
Speaker 2: or really just to do your homework and do your
Speaker 2: research and make sure that you're just at least having
Speaker 2: some baseline blood tests with you or with your doctor
Speaker 2: as well. And anyone thinking about commencing a full VLCD program,
Speaker 2: a very low calorie diet program should absolutely one hundred
Speaker 2: percent without a doubt, either be working with a dietician
Speaker 2: or with your GP because as Zusi said, it can
Speaker 2: injuice cotosis, and there are a few medical conditions that
Speaker 2: we would be sort of worried about as well. And
Speaker 2: you always used to always recommend baseline bloods at the
Speaker 2: hospital before anybody even started a VLCD program as well,
Speaker 2: and watching things like trago side levels and liver and
Speaker 2: that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I've consulted this year for the Biosome brand, which is
Speaker 1: a nutritionally complete VLCD sold it community pharmacy, So that's
Speaker 1: another brand that have got some good resources attached to
Speaker 1: it and some great locale recipes that I designed. But
Speaker 1: the other thing I would say, as a final note
Speaker 1: on mirror placement, if the thought of shakes makes you
Speaker 1: feel sick, it's not for you or hungry. It's definitely
Speaker 1: a kind of person who finds that it works in
Speaker 1: with their lifestyle and it suits them because it's easy
Speaker 1: and not That's what my client actually had said. She
Speaker 1: just wanted something easy to do. She didn't want to
Speaker 1: have to think about it for a while. And that
Speaker 1: is the right person. But if the whole thought of
Speaker 1: shakes is already playing with your mind, it's not for you.
Speaker 1: So you're absolutely right. It's for a very specific type
Speaker 1: of person. It can be effective for the right client,
Speaker 1: but you've got to match the diet to the person
Speaker 1: and that's the key always.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to be strong mentally as well,
Speaker 2: because if you're going to do it for you know,
Speaker 2: Monday to Friday, then you're going to cheat and blow
Speaker 2: out all weekend. You're just going to undo all of
Speaker 2: your hard work because the thing with katosis is that
Speaker 2: you need to drop those carbohydrates right right down, and
Speaker 2: that can take three, four, five days to actually achieve
Speaker 2: that level of katosis, even to get your body into that.
Speaker 2: If you're going to do it for five days, then
Speaker 2: cheat for the weekend or eat some bread and you know,
Speaker 2: go out for pizza, in a couple of beers. It's
Speaker 2: not worth it, like you're just undoing all of your
Speaker 2: hard work. So unless you can be consistent with it,
Speaker 2: I would say for an absolute minimum of two weeks,
Speaker 2: if not probably four to eight weeks to at least
Speaker 2: get some proper results. If you can't be consistent for
Speaker 2: that long and mere replacements are not for you, They're
Speaker 2: just not going to work.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. You do want to do
Speaker 1: it in entirety for a period to get the results,
Speaker 1: and generally I would only be recommending them for people
Speaker 1: who had significant amounts of weight to lose. I'm talking
Speaker 1: twenty thirty kilos. I'm definitely not talking people with five
Speaker 1: or even ten kilos. There's better options for you, would
Speaker 1: be what I the message I would share. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: moving on to a different kind of drink. Chances are
Speaker 1: you have been drinking a little bit more than usual lately,
Speaker 1: or you may be one of the growing number of
Speaker 1: Stadans who are now using not to drink. And the
Speaker 1: good news for those people is there's a whole range
Speaker 1: of growing low and zero alcohol wines and beers availably.
Speaker 1: And I went to Dan Murphy's not Long ago to
Speaker 1: shoot a trolley from my Instagram, and I couldn't believe
Speaker 1: the growth in this area of low alcohol or zero
Speaker 1: alcohol wines. Now I know that you've been indulging a
Speaker 1: little bit in these zero alcohol wines. We tried them
Speaker 1: all soosi this year, being with child, and so you
Speaker 1: have brought this brand to share with us today, which
Speaker 1: is called plus and minis. Plus and minus. I think
Speaker 1: plus and I'm just reading it. I can't read my
Speaker 1: own script. Plus and minis. I thought this extra you
Speaker 1: in there? Oh, plus and minus. Goodness, it's late in
Speaker 1: the year. Plus and minus. Then they've got a different
Speaker 1: This is a range. I've picked the Pino Guzzio, but
Speaker 1: they've got a whole different lot, don't they? Which ones?
Speaker 2: If you tried? So I've done the Pino Guzia, I've
Speaker 2: done the quote unquote fake Champagne whatever you can't call
Speaker 2: it Champagne, the Bubble, the bubble variety, and also the
Speaker 2: Rose and definitely the Pino Guzia or the sparkling variety
Speaker 2: will call it are definitely two of my favorites. And
Speaker 2: I've tried a lot of different brands. Couple of companies
Speaker 2: have sent me a few different products. I've tried the
Speaker 2: zero alcohol beers, the wines. I can't go near the reds.
Speaker 2: I love a glass of good quality red wine, but
Speaker 2: the zero alcohol reds, they just don't cut it. Susie,
Speaker 2: I really do think the sparklings are the better options,
Speaker 2: but some of them are just so sweet they almost
Speaker 2: taste like cordial and a lot of there's a few
Speaker 2: like you know, zero calorie fake gin mixes and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing, and I just find that they're so
Speaker 2: overwhelming from a sugar and a sweetness perspective. To me,
Speaker 2: it tastes like I'm just drinking a cup of cordial,
Speaker 2: and I'd actually just rather the drink water. So this
Speaker 2: plus and minus brand is one of my favorites. One
Speaker 2: of my lovely Instagram followers sent it to me and
Speaker 2: she said, I've been drinking this while pregnant. Give it
Speaker 2: a go. It's one of the better brands, and I
Speaker 2: think it's probably you know, I've tried ten plus different
Speaker 2: brands and varieties and this is definitely one of my favorites.
Speaker 2: So it is very low calorie. So even if you're
Speaker 2: not pregnant, it's a great option if you want to
Speaker 2: feel like you're having a social drink with you know,
Speaker 2: your friends or your family, but it's not water, for example.
Speaker 2: So this one, it comes in a standard one bottle,
Speaker 2: so it's seven to fifty meals. Calories per one hundred
Speaker 2: mills is twenty four. So if you were to drink
Speaker 2: that entire bottle of zero alcohol wine or all sparking,
Speaker 2: it's only about one hundred and eighty calories. So I
Speaker 2: did that. I went to a dinner party and I
Speaker 2: probably had maybe three quarters of the bottle, just because
Speaker 2: you know, everyone else was having quite a lot of
Speaker 2: alcohol and I was sort of obviously the designated driver
Speaker 2: that day home. So I was sitting there with my
Speaker 2: you know, fake sparkling wine and it was all good
Speaker 2: and it was quite enjoyable. I felt like I was
Speaker 2: able to, you know, partake in the social aspect of
Speaker 2: at all, but only you know, probably one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty calories all up, and I had close to the
Speaker 2: whole bottle versus if I had drunk a whole bottle
Speaker 2: of champagne, Susie, that's close to six hundred calories, and
Speaker 2: a whole bottle of champagne or a whole bottle of
Speaker 2: wine can easily be upwards of six hundred calories, so
Speaker 2: I think it's a great lower calorie option. It's a
Speaker 2: great option health wise as well, because we know too
Speaker 2: much alcohol is just not great for our health. And
Speaker 2: it's quite affordable, I think Dan Murphy's I bought a
Speaker 2: couple when they were on sale, and I think they
Speaker 2: were only about eleven dollars or something, and maybe full price,
Speaker 2: perhaps maybe fifteen to twenty. So I mean it is,
Speaker 2: you know, probably quite expensive because it's not actually wine,
Speaker 2: but when they were on sale, actually thought it was
Speaker 2: quite a good option, sort of ten eleven.
Speaker 1: I think I found this really interesting because there's a
Speaker 1: common misconception that when we drink wine, or particularly sweet wine,
Speaker 1: that it's got sugar in it, which is actually not
Speaker 1: true because the carbohydrates and the sugars have been fermented
Speaker 1: to make the alcohol, so they actually don't contain sugar,
Speaker 1: so the calories are coming from the alcohol itself, not
Speaker 1: actually sugar. But this in this pinnagotio, it does have
Speaker 1: not a lot, like you know, three point nine grams
Speaker 1: of sugars per hundred, so like you described, it's got
Speaker 1: about twenty eight grams of sugars in the entire bottle
Speaker 1: if you were to polish that off. But that is
Speaker 1: significantly more than you are getting a little bit of
Speaker 1: sugar from this product, whereas when I've seen a few
Speaker 1: of the zero alcohol spirits in the cans, they're actually
Speaker 1: so low there's nothing really much in them other than
Speaker 1: a bit of flavor to the water, Whereas you do
Speaker 1: get a little bit from this. But like you described,
Speaker 1: if you're not drinking and you just want some flavor
Speaker 1: and it tastes good, it's probably sugar is well spent.
Speaker 1: But I thought that was worth noting that it's a
Speaker 1: misconception that we actually get sugar from alcohol. It's just
Speaker 1: the alcohol that's giving us calories. And when we're drinking,
Speaker 1: the liver is so busy actually processing the alcohol content
Speaker 1: that we tend to store the food that we eat
Speaker 1: with it. So if we had a salad and a
Speaker 1: bottle of wine, we'd be fine, But because we have
Speaker 1: wedges and fried food, that tends to be stored. So
Speaker 1: that's a little bit of point of confusion around alcohol.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so there is a little bit of sweetness
Speaker 1: in that, which perhaps is why it tastes half decent
Speaker 1: compared to the other ones exactly.
Speaker 2: This is probably one of the better tasty ones or
Speaker 2: fairly similar to win or champagne that I've found, compared
Speaker 2: to a lot of the other As you said, zero
Speaker 2: alcohol gins in the cans. I just feel like I'm
Speaker 2: just drinking soda water. I'm like, what's the point. I'd
Speaker 2: rather just make my own soda water. It's a bit
Speaker 2: of flavoring in it. So this is definitely from what
Speaker 2: I found a closer match.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right about the price though, because I've got
Speaker 1: a few friends who don't drink and so they like
Speaker 1: non alcoholic beer. But non alcoholic beer is not inexpensive.
Speaker 1: It's like six or eight bucks. Still, like you just
Speaker 1: have to spend on these things. It's a bit cheeky,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But I mean I'm happy to spend to,
Speaker 2: you know, drink something other than water for the last
Speaker 2: nine months, So for me, you know, I'm happy to
Speaker 2: spend a little bit more just to sort of feel
Speaker 2: like I'm not just the only one drinking water at
Speaker 2: every single dinner party that I go to. For me,
Speaker 2: it's an expense, but I know for a lot of people,
Speaker 2: they're just happy to drink water. So I think, Marolo
Speaker 2: the story, you do you, but this is a great
Speaker 2: option if you want something that vaguely resembles wine or
Speaker 2: sparkling paid and doesn't cost you an arm and a
Speaker 2: leg to get. And I think is also an Aussie
Speaker 2: brand as well, which is nice.
Speaker 1: Really and through to say that since her baby's about
Speaker 1: to be bored, she won't be drinking any of these
Speaker 1: every again. She's back on the full strength.
Speaker 2: So way using my breastfeeding app to know how many
Speaker 2: I'm allowed, alrighty. And that brings us to our final
Speaker 2: segment of the day, which I think is really quite
Speaker 2: a great segment. So it's a listener question around this
Speaker 2: time of year but also around social eating. So one
Speaker 2: of our listeners reached out to us and said, how
Speaker 2: do we this time of year say no to food
Speaker 2: from family and friends without being rude or without being judged?
Speaker 2: And I think this is a big one, Susie, because
Speaker 2: and particularly I've had a lot of clients that have
Speaker 2: diagnosed celiac dicies. So people will go out of their
Speaker 2: way to make something like they're like I made this
Speaker 2: gooden free cake just for you, like you have to
Speaker 2: have some. I went out of my way to make
Speaker 2: it for you, and so you do you feel quite guilty,
Speaker 2: and you do feel quite rude saying no to it.
Speaker 2: But it is difficult as well. When I'm trying to
Speaker 2: teach my clients to honor their hunger, they just have
Speaker 2: this enormous meal. They're like, I don't actually need a
Speaker 2: piece of cake, like or can I just have a
Speaker 2: really small slillet and then they cut them this enormous
Speaker 2: chunk be cause I, like I made it for you.
Speaker 2: You have to eat like a quarter of the cake.
Speaker 2: So it is a it is a hard thing to
Speaker 2: do at this time of year, and I know a
Speaker 2: lot of other people feel quite a lot of pressure,
Speaker 2: perhaps from in laws, perhaps from family friends, perhaps from
Speaker 2: work colleagues to you know, go out and actually drink
Speaker 2: or eat the three course meal or you know, have
Speaker 2: the buffet style meals when just they'd be quite happy
Speaker 2: with a smaller type meal. So what are your tips
Speaker 2: around this time of year and saying no without offending
Speaker 2: family and friends.
Speaker 1: Susie, Oh, it's so difficult because I know when we
Speaker 1: this is this was a great question, and I think
Speaker 1: for anyone who comes from a European family, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just not possible to say no a lot of
Speaker 1: the time for.
Speaker 2: Like me and Asian family, because when.
Speaker 1: We were talking about food at the office, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's much easier to teach colleagues that you're
Speaker 1: actually going to always say no when they're serving cake,
Speaker 1: and it's not taken with such offenses in the case
Speaker 1: of the family, So this is not an evidence based
Speaker 1: way of managing it. But what I would say is
Speaker 1: accept it and then taste it, but just don't eat it,
Speaker 1: because very rarely do people really make sure you've eaten
Speaker 1: it if you think about it, So they make sure
Speaker 1: it's there and they've served you, and then when they
Speaker 1: go off, they don't often check again, so they're not
Speaker 1: actually going to force it down your throat. So you're
Speaker 1: probably going to save yourself a lot of grief just
Speaker 1: by accepting it and either you know, giving it to
Speaker 1: somebody else or putting it on someone else's plate, or
Speaker 1: have a taste and put it back, so not put
Speaker 1: it back, but put it back on the table, or
Speaker 1: you know, when if I'm with people, I'll often put
Speaker 1: it on my husband's plate, you know, and he'll end
Speaker 1: up eating it, which isn't good for him really, But
Speaker 1: you know, there's tricks, I think, but I think actually
Speaker 1: tackling it front on with family knowing European families, it's
Speaker 1: just all Asian families, it's just not even going to
Speaker 1: be possible. So yeah, I think sometimes accept and then
Speaker 1: get rid of as her little backdoor strategy. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's got no evidence space. As I said,
Speaker 1: that's just my what I find works personally.
Speaker 2: I don't think there are over space strategies in this case.
Speaker 2: I think it's just it's what works. So I generally say,
Speaker 2: what's my clients, make your plan known upfront, so when
Speaker 2: you arrive it's easy to say, Hi, Susie, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for having me at your dinner party. Just
Speaker 2: let you know I'm not going to be drinking today.
Speaker 2: It's much easier to make your plans known upfront when
Speaker 2: you arrived, versus when they're pouring the wine at the
Speaker 2: dinner table and you go, oh, no, no, no, for me,
Speaker 2: They're going to go, oh, just have a little bit,
Speaker 2: Just have a little bit. But if you make your
Speaker 2: plans known upfront, I promise it'll be one hundred times
Speaker 2: easier then when they're pouring the one at the dinner table.
Speaker 2: All you have to say is no, no, Remember I
Speaker 2: mentioned when I got here, I'm not going to drink.
Speaker 2: It's just they've had time to process that. Or even
Speaker 2: with the desserts, just letting you know. I'm so excited
Speaker 2: Susie that you're having me at your dinner party today.
Speaker 2: I am just doing a little bit of juggling in
Speaker 2: terms of my health and nutrition. So I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to have the dinner party with you today, but I
Speaker 2: won't be having any dessert. I hope that's okay. So
Speaker 2: I think making your plans known upfront is a strategy
Speaker 2: that I always use with my clients. Or the other
Speaker 2: one is just again honoring your hunger and just saying,
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, I'm really fool that meal. It was
Speaker 2: so delicious, I'm so full. Would it be okay if
Speaker 2: I took some home with me? And that way you're
Speaker 2: not offending anyone. You're not saying I'm not having any,
Speaker 2: But it's like, can I just take some home with me?
Speaker 2: Then you can regift it to a colleague or a
Speaker 2: neighbor or the babysitter or whatever it might be. All
Speaker 2: the other option is thank you that's so sweet of you.
Speaker 2: Oh you made that just me. That's so kind of you.
Speaker 2: I'll just have a little nibble as I'm really satisfied.
Speaker 2: The mill you created was so delicious. I'll just have
Speaker 2: a little nibble and I'll take the rest home with me.
Speaker 2: Is that okay? And again, no one can force food
Speaker 2: on you. If you're hungry like that, you know it's easy.
Speaker 2: If you're going to say, oh, I'm sorry, I'm darting,
Speaker 2: they'll be like, no, no, have some, have some. But
Speaker 2: if you go at it from it, I'm really full,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to honor my hunger perspective. I think people
Speaker 2: will listen to that a lot more than oh, I'm
Speaker 2: trying to be healthy. I think people has an easier
Speaker 2: time trying to self sabotage you if you make it
Speaker 2: about health or weight, loss of calories. But I always
Speaker 2: find that if you say no, I'm actually really full,
Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly fit it in. Can I take it
Speaker 2: home with me? They respond a lot better to that.
Speaker 2: There my tips and.
Speaker 1: A little strategy I will often give clients when they're
Speaker 1: going for weeks away with groups of people, or even
Speaker 1: at family functions where they may have had a history
Speaker 1: of overeating or being served a lot of food. I say, look,
Speaker 1: I want you to look at it as a bit
Speaker 1: of an experiment, and I want you to observe the
Speaker 1: difference in eating behavior, because there'll be people there who
Speaker 1: shove everything that you serve to them or crosses their
Speaker 1: path in their face without even noticing mindlessly, and there'll
Speaker 1: be people who kind of pick around it. They have
Speaker 1: a taste, they don't need a whole lot, And that's
Speaker 1: an interesting observation of people and when large amounts of
Speaker 1: food is available. And so what we want to be
Speaker 1: able to do is keep very mindful about it, and
Speaker 1: even if you accept it or are forced to accept it,
Speaker 1: whichever the circumstance, not have to eat it just because
Speaker 1: it's in front of us, and get very good at
Speaker 1: sort of tasting a little bit, putting it down, having
Speaker 1: a little pick. Can you be surprised just that process
Speaker 1: of slowing down the eating and being mindful can reduce
Speaker 1: calorie intake bay up to thirty percent because you're not
Speaker 1: only registered that you don't even want it, you register
Speaker 1: that it doesn't taste as good as you thought that
Speaker 1: it might. You might register that you're really quite full,
Speaker 1: because you've just had a massive meal and what you're
Speaker 1: getting pleasure from is the food mouthful or two. You
Speaker 1: don't need to eat the whole cake just because it's there.
Speaker 1: That there's certainly programming, behavioral programming where people will just
Speaker 1: keep eating just because it's in front of them. So
Speaker 1: another trick is to when it's there and you've had enough,
Speaker 1: push it away or move it to the side so
Speaker 1: that it actually comes away from your eye sight, just
Speaker 1: so you don't get into that habit of mindlessly having it.
Speaker 1: I like the idea of making the intention known early
Speaker 1: in the piece, but I think I'm just thinking of
Speaker 1: my Italian family. If I said, if I said to Nona,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be eating today, that wouldn't just
Speaker 1: go out. That wouldn't be happening. So you're better to
Speaker 1: take it and hope she doesn't notice that you didn't
Speaker 1: need it all later.
Speaker 2: I like that I do pushing it onto Hubby's plate,
Speaker 2: And if you don't have a hobby to push it onto,
Speaker 2: maybe just say to your friend, oh, that looks delicious,
Speaker 2: would you like to share someone really really full? And
Speaker 2: then I do that quite often with girlfriends out at dinner,
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, I really want dessert. I'm like, they're like, you,
Speaker 2: are you going to get some dessert with me? I'm
Speaker 2: like no, I'm so full, But how about we share
Speaker 2: something and honestly, SUSI, the dessert comes out, I might
Speaker 2: have two spoons of it and they have the other
Speaker 2: ninety percent of it, and it's like we shared, but
Speaker 2: you know, I've only had a couple of spoons. I'm
Speaker 2: really just tasting it versus is eating it. So I
Speaker 2: think that's a really important concept and definitely something you
Speaker 2: can do at family gatherings as well. Or you know,
Speaker 2: if there's an uncle who really likes this food, have
Speaker 2: a little taste and say hey, uncle, do you want this?
Speaker 2: Or just put it down on the table, and you know,
Speaker 2: if everyone sort of walks away, no one's got to
Speaker 2: know that it was you that kind of didn't eat it,
Speaker 2: particularly if it's something that you taste and it's not
Speaker 2: that good. Like, really save those Christmas treats, you know,
Speaker 2: make those calories count and make it something that's actually
Speaker 2: delicious and that you love. If someone's trying to force
Speaker 2: you'd eat something you don't actually like, I would push
Speaker 2: back quite hard on that and say no, that's not
Speaker 2: really my thing, but I'll happily have some you know,
Speaker 2: plum pudding later on or something like that.
Speaker 1: And if you're single, that could be a way of
Speaker 1: actually meeting someone. You could say, Hey, I've got this
Speaker 1: this leftover dinner on my leftover. Oh, we're silly. It's
Speaker 1: our last episode. Just humorous because Leanne brings us to
Speaker 1: the end of the Nutrition Couch for an entire year. Well,
Speaker 1: it's been a very big year. We started in May
Speaker 1: and we've just been so grateful to you, our very
Speaker 1: loyal listeners, for embracing the Nutrition Couch and being such
Speaker 1: amazing support. And we are really excited about what the
Speaker 1: new year is going to bring. We've got a plan
Speaker 1: for some very motivating and inspirational content as we move
Speaker 1: into what dieticians called diet season, which is January twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two. And especially we would like Twish, Leanne and
Speaker 1: David all the very best for the birth of their
Speaker 1: baby girl, which may have happened or maybe very imminent.
Speaker 1: I would say, we can't wait to see those photographs.
Speaker 1: So from me, Merry Christmas and a very happy New
Speaker 1: Year and healthy twenty twenty two on the way, and.
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone for your support. I have a wonderful
Speaker 2: festive season and we'll catch you guys very soon in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. Sounds crazy to say that Merry Christmas.