1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: the Daily OS. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the twenty eighth of August. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: I'm Sam Kazlowski. Exactly one week ago, we brought you 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 2: a podcast episode that posed a very simple question, does 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: the AFL have a homophobia problem? At the core of 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: this discussion is the fact that the AFL is the 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: only major professional male sporting code in the world to 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: have never had an openly gay or bisexual player past 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 2: or present. It's a remarkable statistic for a game more 12 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: than one hundred and twenty years old, but that statement 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 2: is no longer true. On today's podcast, we sit down 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: with former West Coast Eagles player Mitch Brown. What started 15 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: with an Instagram DM from Mitch to TDA last Thursday 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: night culminated in an in depth chat that we're going 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: to bring you in two parts today and tomorrow. What 18 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: you're about to hear isn't just the biggest story TDA 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: has ever told. It's a conversation that will echo through 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 2: every football club, every locker room, and hopefully every young 21 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: person's bedroom across the country. We are really honored that 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: Mitch chose TDA as the platform to tell his story. 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: This is our historic chat with Mitch Brown, exclusively on TDA. 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: You're right nervous, A smile when I'm nervous. I'm nervous too. 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: It's a good try to have Mitch. 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on the Daily Odds 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: Today Worries. So, I was about this time last week 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: that I got a DM from you on Instagram. Take 29 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: me through the hours that led up to sending that 30 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: message and what the message said. 31 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: The message it wasn't so much ours. It was a 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: moment in time for me, and there was seconds but 33 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: leading up to that, it's been years of you know, emotions, 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: feelings trapped in my head, in my soul, in my 35 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: heart for so long. And I sent you a DM 36 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: on Instagram after I saw a video when you're talking 37 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: about the recent homophobic slur and the AFL and the 38 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: reactions that came with that, and my text message said, Hey, Sam, 39 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: I played in the AFL for ten years for the 40 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: West Coast Eagules and I'm a bisexual man and that's 41 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: all it said. 42 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: That's a really big thing to say. 43 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels amazing now, you know, when I sent 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, the moments that led up to that, I 45 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: had this feeling of peace, but more importantly comfort and confidence, 46 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: confidence in who I am, my identity, and comfort with 47 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: sharing that and the people have around me. 48 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: There's been one hundred and twenty five years of vfl 49 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: AFL competition. That's tens of thousands of male players. You 50 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: are the first past or present player to say I'm 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: gay or I'm bisexual publicly. Why do you think it's 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 2: taken that long? 53 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: And you ask me that question, it's quite sad to 54 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: hear that, you know, you know, you start reflecting on 55 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: why is it taken me so long? Before you go 56 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: and question why is it taken the community so long? 57 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: And I get like the generations, not just how the 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: wider community fear feel about the queer community, but just everything. 59 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: Things change over the generations. We learn, we grow as 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: a society. We're more educated than ever, we have more 61 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: empathy than ever, and that correlates to the timeline, the 62 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: amount of time of why you know, being openly gay 63 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: or bisexual as an Australian rules footballer pastor present has 64 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: taken so long? 65 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: Why do you think it's taken you so long? 66 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, you know, society and definitely the communities 67 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: and the environments that I grew up with. I have 68 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: a beautiful family and I've lived very privileged life as 69 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: a white male in our society and things have come 70 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: to me quite easily. So I just want to acknowledge that, 71 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: and you know, and I want to acknowledge it. I'm 72 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: not speaking on behalf of the queer community. I'm only 73 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: speaking for my own experiences, lived experiences. But as I 74 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: was growing up, I was involved and you know, as 75 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: a male here in Australia, most of us are in 76 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: environments of hyper masculinity. So what I mean by that 77 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: is now, I grew up in Ballarat in the country, 78 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: played football when I was young, in juniors only with boys. 79 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: The young girls didn't have a chance to play football 80 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: our coaches. There was always men dads. I went to 81 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: primary school in the country and then went to high 82 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: school to an all boys Catholic school, and then as 83 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: a seventeen year old young man, flew across the country 84 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: and stepped into an extra hyper masculine environment and that 85 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: is at an AFL footballer. 86 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: So that's when you were drafted. You were drafted to 87 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 2: the West Coast Eagles and you went across the Perth 88 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: at seventeen seventeen. Was it around then that you started 89 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: questioning or thinking through your sexuality. 90 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: It's it's a really hard one to answer because these 91 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: thoughts have come up, questioning, and you know, part of 92 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 1: my experience has been suppressing that for so long, you know, unconscious, 93 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: like it's you don't even think about when you do 94 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: suppress it. You know, I grew up as a man 95 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: in Australia. I leave home, I'll find a girlfriend and 96 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: I'll get married, and that's that's how we do things. 97 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: And in the environments that you're in, whether it's a 98 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: high school, in the group chats, recess or in the 99 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: locker room as a footballer, as an adult, you just 100 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: it was never once an opportunity to speak openly or 101 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: explore your feelings or my feelings or questions in a 102 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: safer way. 103 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 2: Was it just something that was absent or was it discouraged? 104 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: Do you think discouraged? What do you mean by that? 105 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: We all know that the locker room chat, the chats 106 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: in the spa, and so I'm speaking about AFL football 107 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: environment now and the chats. We're all geared around, you know, 108 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: who did everyone pick up on the weekend, or you know, 109 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: she's pretty hot, or she's this and that, And it 110 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: was never once. I wouldn't even it wasn't even in 111 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: my mind to share or ask the question, or bring 112 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: things up or even talk about the queer community at all. 113 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: In fact, you know, it was always something that you'd 114 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: keep inside because if you did put out a question 115 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: or you did talk about you know, I love David 116 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: Bowie the artist music in his music, and even if 117 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: I was to talk about David Bowie as a talented artist, 118 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: as someone to aspire me to be truly yourself and 119 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: happy with whoever you are, the conversation would always steer 120 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: back about his sexuality. 121 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: And I think the thing that's really interesting to me 122 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: is that I think I'm right in describing these guys 123 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: also as some of your best mates and housemates at 124 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: the time and lifelong friends. Explain the disconnects then, though, 125 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: that you did have intimate relationships with this group of players, 126 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: but couldn't or didn't talk about this key part of you. 127 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: You learn very quickly just to say nothing. And you know, 128 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: I was always very very good at putting things deep 129 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: inside of me. Not just about my sexuality but about everything. 130 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: I could bury them so deep, and most people in 131 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: my position can do that better than anyone. And you 132 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: move on. And especially in a high performance environment like 133 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: the AFL, it's so clear your task and that is 134 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: to train hard, get better, win games, win a premiership. 135 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: So it's really easy to not bring your personal life 136 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: into things, to stay quiet, to not share too much 137 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: of yourself, because you know you can eat easily, still 138 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: be an amazing team member and not reveal yourself your 139 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: true identity, and still be successful. You know, there was 140 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: one time I did share my questions about my sexuality 141 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: with a teammate or with you know, a person in 142 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: my footballing community in Western Australia, and it was it's 143 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: just a sort of casual question around how do you 144 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: know if you're gay? How do you know if you're bisexual? 145 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: And I remember it happened a long ago, a long 146 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: time ago, in two thousand and seven, but it was 147 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: laugh laughed at. It was almost like, that's a funny question. 148 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: You've been funny Mitch, And then the conversation just rolled on, 149 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: but it was made as a joke and I remember 150 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: how that made me feel and I swore never to 151 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: bring that up over again. 152 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: Well, you were nineteen in two thousand and seven. That's 153 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: a really important age to be asking that question, and 154 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: I'm sure a really important age to be hearing a 155 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: reaction like that to it. 156 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I've had so much time to think 157 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: about this, to sit with my emotions and feelings over 158 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: the years, and you know, sorry, what was that question again? 159 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 2: Why don't we talk about on the field. I think 160 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: you've painted a really good picture of the locker room. 161 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: Talk to me about combat on the field and the 162 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 2: role of homophobic comments in your playing career as almost 163 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: a weapon to be used against your opposition. 164 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: I think on the field, you're trying to beat your opponent, right, 165 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: trying to win, and the best way to do that 166 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: is to show you show your strength. One of the 167 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: ways you do that is to belittle your opponent, bring 168 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: them down. And you do it physically, Yeah, and then 169 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: you can do it verbally as well. You know, you 170 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: can say all sorts of things. And you hear that 171 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: on the field every single week, every single game. You 172 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: hear that in your workplace, on the building site at schools. 173 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: You know, I think this year, you know, it's very known. 174 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: It's become an AFL problem, but it's an Australian man's problem. 175 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 2: Do you remember any times where you had homophobic comments 176 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: directed at you? 177 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: Countless? And it wasn't because you know people, you know, 178 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm straight presenting man, and you know it was used 179 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: because a gay man, a bisexual man, someone in the 180 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: queer community was seen as someone so small and low 181 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: and weak. You know, for a man in Australia, you know, 182 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: that's probably the weakest thing you could be. You know, 183 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: certainly when I was growing up at school, the word 184 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: gay was thrown around constantly. And we're at all boys school, 185 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: so you know, to belittle someone or to hurt someone, 186 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: you would say, oh, you're gay, and it just became 187 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: part of the normal conversation. 188 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 2: What was it like hearing those homophobic comments directed at 189 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: you and internalizing that homophobia while you were navigating your 190 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 2: own identity in your twenties. 191 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Sam, Like you know I went. Most 192 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: young people finish school and go to university, go traveling 193 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: or a gap year and have the time and space 194 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: to find your people, your community, your queer community, or 195 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: explore and you only speak because this is my experience 196 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: for footballers, I went into this hyper masculine environment not 197 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: being able to have the chance to explore my sexuality. 198 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: When you hear these comments and if to someone else 199 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: or in general conversation or directed at you, you've suppressed 200 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: these feelings so much because that culture is so strong 201 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: around being a strong male in their eyes, that you forget, 202 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: You forget who you are and your identity. This notion 203 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,239 Speaker 1: around a queer player being in the AFL AFL men's 204 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: has come up time and time again. You know, I 205 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: really want this to be a anti climax or an event. 206 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: The reality is that you retired many years ago and 207 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: we're still in relatively the same position with the frequency 208 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: of homophobic talking points in the AFL. Has anything changed 209 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: since you played? 210 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: Do you think? Well? I can't speak for the locker 211 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: rooms down, but you know the fact that we're hearing 212 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: more publicly about a homophobic slur is a good thing 213 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: because it is being called out. I remember when this issue, 214 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: say issue, when this was talked brought up At one 215 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: time when I was playing around, no gay men in 216 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: the AFL were sitting in the massage room and there 217 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: was just the general conversation around the issues in the AFL, 218 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: and this came up, and I remember two people having 219 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: a conversation around how they would feel having a shower 220 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: next to a gay man. One of the players referred it, 221 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: I'd rather be in a cage full of lines than 222 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: have a shower next to a gay man. And There's 223 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: been so many times in my life that I've seen 224 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: things or heard things and not said anything. And I 225 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: didn't say anything in fear of people thinking that I 226 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: was gay or bisexual. I remember that feeling so like, 227 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: it's so strong, and I didn't do anything about that. 228 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of fear to hold. Talk to 229 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: me about them where you began to deconstruct that fear. 230 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, just speaking about that locker room from that day, 231 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: Like I part of the conversations that we used to 232 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: have in the locker room in the spas and the 233 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: swimming pools and is like, oh, you know who is 234 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: gay in this footy club? Oh, we think it's that 235 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: it's definitely that person. They haven't had a girlfriend for 236 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: a while or ever. So you know, even that those conversations, 237 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: that culture, that behavior, you know, sitting there hearing that again, 238 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: you're bury it even further. You know, I got to 239 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: the the end of my career and I was asked 240 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: to play on for a couple more years, and I 241 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: was over it. I was done. 242 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 2: How much of a role did this conversation we're having 243 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: today and the topics in it, How much of a 244 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: role did that have in you making that call to 245 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 2: end your career? 246 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: Huge, right, and not so much about you know, my 247 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: sexuality is only one part of me. There's a lot 248 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: of part of parts of Mitch. And one of the 249 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: biggest reasons I wanted to finish up playing AFL was 250 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,719 Speaker 1: to meet new people. I craved talking to someone and 251 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: not being judged. I craved the ability to choose who 252 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to be around rather than to fit in 253 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: to a team. And you know, ultimately, in all aspects 254 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: of my life, not just my sexuality. That's why I 255 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: was decided to finish. And when I finished, I never 256 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: looked back on my career and football, and I played 257 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: for ten years, so there's enough there to, you know, 258 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: have some sort of wisdom. And I look back and 259 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not disgruntled. I didn't hate my experience 260 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: as a footballer. I loved it. But I'm so ready 261 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: to finish and move on, and it took me a 262 00:17:54,600 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: while to start to deconstruct this strong identity that was 263 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: stowed upon me by the environments that I was in, 264 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: that I truly believed in, like I bought into that. 265 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: The fear was so strong. 266 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: And the fear of being caught out, Yeah. 267 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 1: So strong that you don't dare scared of being outed 268 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: or someone to call you gay. And then because I 269 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: wasn't ready, I wasn't confident in my identity and who 270 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: I was, my natural reaction would be to suppress that, 271 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: to you know, project my masculinity even more. And I 272 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: wasn't ready for that. I didn't understand. I didn't have 273 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: the confidence in my identity as a bisexual man. 274 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us for the first half of our 275 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 2: conversation with Mitch Brown. If you need support or someone 276 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: to talk to at any time, you can contact Lifeline 277 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: on thirteen eleven fourteen or q life on one eight 278 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 2: hundred one eight four five two seven. We'll bring you 279 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 2: the second half of that chat tomorrow. 280 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 281 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 282 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 283 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 284 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 285 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.