Speaker 1: Black Cast nine our Voices. Welcome to the Black Magic
Speaker 1: Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail. I'm here on Kubbycobby Country
Speaker 1: and I've just run into one of my uncles and
Speaker 1: I actually saw him on Garner Country about two years ago.
Speaker 1: I think it was two years ago, could have been
Speaker 1: a year ago. And we're at the airport and I'm
Speaker 1: not telling you any more about this yarn, but Uncle John,
Speaker 1: it was so good to see you as I walked
Speaker 1: in to the Sunshine Coast Convention Center here at the
Speaker 1: first Nation's Clean Energy Network summit with all these different
Speaker 1: mob and You're the first one that I got to see.
Speaker 1: So I just want to say thank you for taking
Speaker 1: time out to jump on this pod and have a
Speaker 1: yarn with me for my listeners, but also viewers now
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Thank you for joining us as well. Got
Speaker 1: a few more subscribers, which is deadly. Tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about just what We'll start with your name
Speaker 1: and who's your mob, and maybe a little bit about
Speaker 1: where you grew up.
Speaker 2: What am Mollie Mantadara. As I said this morning, you
Speaker 2: just turn up. There's this universal alignment that occurs in
Speaker 2: each of our lives, and you my girl, you're turning
Speaker 2: up this morning was a blessing and a reminder, a
Speaker 2: reminder of this meeting that we're having here, this gathering
Speaker 2: on Gubby Cubby Country. I thank them for their hosting
Speaker 2: and creating this culturally safe environment for this powerful conversation
Speaker 2: about First Nation's clean energy. Myself saltwater connections born on
Speaker 2: Palm Island in the late fifties lined up for rations,
Speaker 2: which I thought was wonderful of the missionaries, but I
Speaker 2: found out it was all stolen wages. So that's these
Speaker 2: life experiences that give you a glow and then they
Speaker 2: take away that and put a little tinge to it.
Speaker 2: Grandfather Country, Saltwater country there, Nuagi people ill Nowagi family
Speaker 2: members out that way. Yeah, we've got a lot to
Speaker 2: play and talk about in this space. Grandfather Country, then
Speaker 2: Nawagi people around Ingham, Grandmother's Country, Mummel people up around Indusvale.
Speaker 2: So that saltwater connection. But then I flow with my
Speaker 2: movement in being shifted off the dormitory out to western Queensland.
Speaker 2: Bidgital cattercattering, gathering bull people. So all your desert uplands
Speaker 2: follows out that way. Black soil follows Yep, we've got
Speaker 2: big business to do out there, and we're doing as
Speaker 2: well too, but we've got to do a proper way integrity,
Speaker 2: cultural integrity and doing business proper and in becoming those
Speaker 2: honorable ancestors, which I've always been reminded of of the
Speaker 2: Watson's coming into that Watson family through nine AUPAT nine FM,
Speaker 2: Deadley Murray Radio and the history of that, Yeah, which
Speaker 2: reminds me the impactful way that that brother Tiger and
Speaker 2: others that That's sixty six referendum. I was started Grade
Speaker 2: one in January of that year, nineteen sixty sixth Grade
Speaker 2: one slate boards and the like here and all this
Speaker 2: was happening around me and I was unaware of it,
Speaker 2: this movement. I was told not to be a radical
Speaker 2: black by my family out that way there, but guess
Speaker 2: what I did? They told me not to become a skypilot.
Speaker 2: But guess what I did? Yeah, in this space. So
Speaker 2: this gravitation and drawing out all these different lived experiences
Speaker 2: ending up now in Brisbane later part of my career
Speaker 2: and having the honor to be able to sit in
Speaker 2: in positions and lead independent bodies or regulatory bodies around
Speaker 2: making this space a lot safer for all who choose
Speaker 2: to live on Aboriginal country.
Speaker 1: Uncle thank you for reminding us, especially of Grannie Mook
Speaker 1: and Uncle Ross. You know they've passed now, but every
Speaker 1: funeral we have in our family Mick, Dad, Uncle Johnny,
Speaker 1: Uncle Philip, or my dad's brothers grandfathers to my children
Speaker 1: on their coffins, we've got honorable ancestor. And Grannie Mook
Speaker 1: always said this, you know what kind of honorable ancestor
Speaker 1: are you going to be to the children of the future.
Speaker 1: And they're so powerful words. And there's a star named
Speaker 1: Honorable Ancestor because of Grannie Mook and the impact that
Speaker 1: she's had on a lot of people, not just in
Speaker 1: this country but obviously around the world. Very proud Gungaloo Beery,
Speaker 1: Gubble woman, a Dawson River Murray. So got me thinking
Speaker 1: there now about Grant and I can feel our energy
Speaker 1: as we are in here. Coexistence is on your name
Speaker 1: tag and I've never heard of this business before. So
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit. How did you set up coexistence?
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't set up co existence. It's part of
Speaker 2: this inheritance we've got. So I started. I joined in
Speaker 2: with the gas fields Commission a point in there. As
Speaker 2: chair of the gas Fields Commission, it came off the
Speaker 2: back of all the onshore gas development in industry from
Speaker 2: twenty ten through to what we have now. I engaged
Speaker 2: with thirty three different Native title cultural heritage agreements, twenty
Speaker 2: seven tradition owned groups in the Strap Basin, Bowen Basin,
Speaker 2: Your mob involved too in as part of an approvals process.
Speaker 2: Those agreements were developed on relationships. But what left a
Speaker 2: taste in my mouth was that when we came to implement,
Speaker 2: is implemented on commercial terms and which brings us to
Speaker 2: where we are now with first Nations clean energy. I
Speaker 2: believe the first nation's clean energy. This movement that we're
Speaker 2: developing how now is similar to the movement that brought
Speaker 2: us a sixty seven referendum, but this is going to
Speaker 2: be so much more impactful and we are better organized
Speaker 2: to connect up, share our stories and move as one
Speaker 2: and all rise with the tides. So co existence quenstand
Speaker 2: came out of gas Fields because it was recognized on
Speaker 2: the first of July last year. Gas Field's Commission has
Speaker 2: done a great job, so we got also then we're
Speaker 2: given the remit to look after critical Earth minerals, both
Speaker 2: the solar and wind as well as the ongoing gas industry.
Speaker 2: So that the relationship between landholders, traditional owners, so those
Speaker 2: who are well connected to land in all of its
Speaker 2: shapes and forms, and the developers that choose to come
Speaker 2: in here. Now that with the passage of legislation too
Speaker 2: recently in enacting on the first of July, that there
Speaker 2: must be a community benefit shown to any developer that's
Speaker 2: looking to work in communities of interests, association and orrige.
Speaker 2: They've got to speak to family, they've got to speak
Speaker 2: to mob, they've got to speak to landowners. They've got
Speaker 2: to speak to the local authorities and respect the history
Speaker 2: of people in place and the deep, deep stories that
Speaker 2: sit in in country and landscape and relationships.
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking about developers, we're talking about now you know,
Speaker 1: big corporations, investors, people overseas and I've got interests here,
Speaker 1: invested interest here. What's some advice you know that you
Speaker 1: could share if they're listening to this yarna or watching
Speaker 1: it on YouTube, what would you say to them in
Speaker 1: terms of how how do they go about building these relationships?
Speaker 1: What are those some of those first steps that you
Speaker 1: think would be of value to share with them.
Speaker 2: Start early, having the conversations, and be very clear in
Speaker 2: what you're bringing to the table. Make the interests interests
Speaker 2: explicit rather than talking round ways and the like. It's
Speaker 2: was suggested yesterday that how we engage when we know
Speaker 2: someone gam and come into the room that aren't straight
Speaker 2: up and down. We've got our own queues. We read
Speaker 2: body language and the like, and these sounds that we
Speaker 2: issue with ad we know when someone's gam and so look,
Speaker 2: come in and be respectful of people in place, and
Speaker 2: take the time, don't come last minute, f pick or
Speaker 2: free prior and informed consent means means, start early and
Speaker 2: give give of self and interests and agendas upfront. We
Speaker 2: can save so much time, We can save so many
Speaker 2: dollars being spent on costly legal processes and like, if
Speaker 2: we simply just sit opposite each other like we're doing
Speaker 2: here now, girl, and having this open hearted, open mind
Speaker 2: conversation and use those those body parts as we have.
Speaker 2: We've all been told use them in proportion. Two eyes,
Speaker 2: two ears, one mouth, use it in those proportions. So listen, listen, listen, Yes,
Speaker 2: as the wisdom of old people say.
Speaker 1: Listen, talking about wisdom of the old people. I've got
Speaker 1: to mention now, Uncle Charlie Watson, bless you. I'm still around,
Speaker 1: Uncle Charlie wat Willy to you, my deadly uncle and
Speaker 1: Aunt Lilla out at jim Berlanga nursing home and only
Speaker 1: mayor with the three elders that you know. I was
Speaker 1: privileged and honored for them to ask me to go
Speaker 1: into business with them and start Black Card. And it
Speaker 1: was really about teaching people about aboriginal tones of reference,
Speaker 1: not cultural awareness, about our accumulated knowledge. It comes from
Speaker 1: this land that developed over millennia. How do we age,
Speaker 1: how do we build relationships, how do we conduct ourselves,
Speaker 1: especially as visitors on other mobs country. So Aunt Lilla
Speaker 1: or doctor La Watson, these aboriginal terms of reference, you
Speaker 1: can call them indigenous terms of reference, but they are
Speaker 1: the core principles the foundational knowledge that we teach at
Speaker 1: Black Cart relationality. You know the law of obligations, the
Speaker 1: law of reciprocity. But everything is embedded in relationships from
Speaker 1: a first nation's perspective, in how we get along, how
Speaker 1: we settle differences. And I think it's such and I
Speaker 1: don't think I know, and I've been taught this in
Speaker 1: schooled by the elders, that we developed a sophisticated governance system.
Speaker 1: We developed this governance system that we don't think exists
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world when it comes to other indigenous
Speaker 1: groups because it's lateral flat. You know, male and female
Speaker 1: sitting side by side and community coming together when it's
Speaker 1: community business. But we've got men's business, we've got women's business,
Speaker 1: and there's respect between the two. So if men are
Speaker 1: coming into a community, maybe they should bring a female
Speaker 1: colleague with them as well, because they don't know if
Speaker 1: they're meeting with male and female or if it's a
Speaker 1: young woman coming and make sure she's got an older
Speaker 1: female or a male there to come with two people
Speaker 1: instead of just the one. Some of those cultural protocols
Speaker 1: are not known well, I would say most of our
Speaker 1: protocols are not known to most Australians because they haven't
Speaker 1: taken the time. And you mentioned this, allow for time,
Speaker 1: allow for proper consultation, don't come with an agenda. Maybe
Speaker 1: come with building the relationship. Come with the mindset that
Speaker 1: you're here to build a relationship and maybe the agenda
Speaker 1: comes next time. But allowing for times. So these are
Speaker 1: really and protocols or steps that people can take to
Speaker 1: get the best outcome possible.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, time is limited. We look at the average life
Speaker 2: expectancy of each us, each of us well, us MOB
Speaker 2: is a little bit lower than the general austration Australian population.
Speaker 2: So when you multiply the average life expectancy by fifty
Speaker 2: two weeks, and see where you're at now that you've
Speaker 2: got I got a clock ticking and we just don't know.
Speaker 2: So that importance of every every breath, of every thought,
Speaker 2: and in the way that we have these conversations between
Speaker 2: us and with us and with others those it's a
Speaker 2: little bit like the nice seeing creed if you like,
Speaker 2: if you wanted to borrow a white fellow fellow comparison
Speaker 2: that it's it's a prayer of approach. And when we
Speaker 2: come and call the country, it's we've got koi bay
Speaker 2: up there a yapooon or in our way there in
Speaker 2: the central highlands there too, we say your coup call
Speaker 2: out loud in our voice, and we sit and we wait.
Speaker 2: We could wait three days or something waiting for MOB
Speaker 2: to come and and let us condition ourselves to being
Speaker 2: this space and absorbing the spirit of place and the
Speaker 2: embodiment of culture and practice and a protocol that belongs here,
Speaker 2: so as the circles fall back around if we're doing
Speaker 2: doing work, even travelers coming through caravaners, I'm a caravan,
Speaker 2: I'm not a grey nomad. Well that's it absolutely black
Speaker 2: brindle or whichever way, and there's here cafe late nomad.
Speaker 2: But working, working through and it doesn't matter where we
Speaker 2: go around this great southern land. We're obliged to practice
Speaker 2: our deep seated protocols. And if others that travel country
Speaker 2: adopt some of those protocols or the ways of being,
Speaker 2: knowing and and behaving, there's an opportunity for us to
Speaker 2: have some deep exchanges as we pass through through country,
Speaker 2: not just through the lens of a camera, but through
Speaker 2: the relationships that we have here and with that person
Speaker 2: and there, and the offerings the gifts come manyfold to
Speaker 2: say well you should come and stay here when you
Speaker 2: come to Victoria or whichever way. Yeah, yep. Those protocols
Speaker 2: are extremely relevant for now, and we need we could
Speaker 2: do so much more of all of us, each of us,
Speaker 2: no matter which where we come from originally joining us
Speaker 2: mob here, enjoy enjoy the benefits that come with being
Speaker 2: with us. Yeah, it's not a competition. We're going to
Speaker 2: share this. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: Uncle. You just reminded me about we're talking about protocols
Speaker 1: and country and letting mainstream Australians know it's okay to
Speaker 1: adopt some of our customs and pro to cols. In fact,
Speaker 1: it will make them, i would say, much more connected
Speaker 1: to this country and give them a deeper sense of belonging,
Speaker 1: which a lot of non Aboriginal people they don't experience
Speaker 1: this sense of belonging that we experience in our country
Speaker 1: and on our land. Even when we're in other people's country,
Speaker 1: we still know. Well, I know for a fact growing
Speaker 1: up in my family and my community, I know where
Speaker 1: I belong and that's also a privilege. And I know
Speaker 1: that a lot of our mob have struggled with that
Speaker 1: sense of belonging because of past gopment policies. With that
Speaker 1: welcome to country and acknowledging country, we talk about it
Speaker 1: being an ancient diplomatic protocol, a tradition that has been
Speaker 1: practiced for tens of thousands of years, and then we
Speaker 1: show the Aboriginal languages map of Australia. The iatzis Haughton
Speaker 1: version and remind people that this is probably the earliest
Speaker 1: example of a human government than anywhere else in the world.
Speaker 1: And even though we're being a little bit biased at
Speaker 1: Black Card, we believe, and this is what we share
Speaker 1: with people. We believe that Abiginal people of this land
Speaker 1: invented diplomacy. And what does that mean, you know, how
Speaker 1: we engage with each other. It's about minimizing the potential
Speaker 1: for conflict. It doesn't make peace right, but it lays
Speaker 1: the foundations for positive relation or you know, interactions with
Speaker 1: each other. And there's another concept that our little and
Speaker 1: aunt Mary talk about in terms of this congenial fellowship
Speaker 1: and leave him, an associolinguist, talked about it when he
Speaker 1: lived with their mob on our undercountry. They said that
Speaker 1: he never come across another group indigenous group in the
Speaker 1: world like blackfellows, which is our people here that worked
Speaker 1: so hard at relationships with each other. And whether he
Speaker 1: coined that term or not, I'm not too sure, but
Speaker 1: he was the one that talked about this congenial congeniality.
Speaker 1: To be congenial is to create those good feelings the group,
Speaker 1: and that's what we need to remind not just non
Speaker 1: Abiginal people about it. I think it's now our own mob.
Speaker 1: As you say, you've got a lot of work to do,
Speaker 1: We got a lot of work to do, especially in
Speaker 1: this clean energy space and the renewable energy. In these
Speaker 1: transitions into clean energy, what could we hope for the
Speaker 1: future for our mob in particular when it comes to
Speaker 1: understanding what does clean energy and renewables? What does it
Speaker 1: even mean for us? What do we need to look
Speaker 1: out for?
Speaker 2: It's this lessons of coexistence that comes from thousands of
Speaker 2: generations in being in this space allows us to share
Speaker 2: wisdom and understanding of what it means to be here.
Speaker 2: We all have our mob, we all need a mob,
Speaker 2: and a lot of us are finding our mob. But
Speaker 2: to those who who are curious, I know another another
Speaker 2: phrase that has understood. You mentioned diplomacy longer standing, but
Speaker 2: the same same here in so far as traveling traveling
Speaker 2: between country. Here we've got the world's oldest passport system,
Speaker 2: and that came by a message, Dick, or by the
Speaker 2: by the behaviors that we had when approaching country and
Speaker 2: the like. So it's suggesting there before that when you
Speaker 2: are traveling traveling country, be with us. Have these conversations
Speaker 2: with us. Don't fear us, don't be frightened of us,
Speaker 2: Sit with us, and deep an understanding of how you
Speaker 2: might you might coexist in in place and space, but
Speaker 2: also within relationships. Yep, we've all got one. A lot
Speaker 2: of my friends said, I've got one. I've got a
Speaker 2: black fellow. He's a good friend. And well so I've
Speaker 2: got ninety seven ninety percent of Australians out there as
Speaker 2: potential friends. So how rich and blessed am I here?
Speaker 1: Certainly we can just remind people, yes, of our way,
Speaker 1: the old ways, you know, our way of this just this.
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is about mob in terms
Speaker 1: of just being so approachable, so accepting, so forgiving, so loving,
Speaker 1: so understanding. And even Granniemook used to say, you know,
Speaker 1: when you speak those words, they can't come back. When
Speaker 1: they leave your mouth, they're gone. So think about what
Speaker 1: you say.
Speaker 2: They're in the wind. They're in the wind.
Speaker 1: They're in the wind.
Speaker 2: My nanimally nanomally carry carry. Muley Thompson has had a
Speaker 2: term bint the way, which means you open your heart.
Speaker 2: You open your heart, but you be careful how wide
Speaker 2: you open that heart, because there are others who might
Speaker 2: might take advantage of but but bint the way. So
Speaker 2: it's it's again, it's a practice down through the generations
Speaker 2: and be open hearted. There's a risk in that. Love
Speaker 2: everything everything else that comes with relationships. There is a
Speaker 2: risk in that. But this is a great risk to
Speaker 2: be taking, to be sharing space, time and energy between
Speaker 2: each of us here coexist.
Speaker 1: Uncle, What a beautiful way to wrap up our yarn
Speaker 1: and just saying thank you for giving me your time
Speaker 1: to share your knowledge, your wisdom, your experience, the work
Speaker 1: that you're doing, the work that you're embarking on here
Speaker 1: on the Black Magic Woman podcasts. I just want to
Speaker 1: say thank you and looking forward to more yards with
Speaker 1: you in the near future.
Speaker 2: Oh look, thank you, my girl. And I just love
Speaker 2: this extended family connection with you and yours and those
Speaker 2: arties and uncles. Heah deadly what.
Speaker 1: What a molly your mob. There is more to come
Speaker 1: with a lot of the mob that are gathering here
Speaker 1: on Kabby Cubby Gabby Gubby Country for the first Nation's
Speaker 1: Clean Energy Network Summit. Over four hundred and fifty delegates
Speaker 1: are here and I can't wait for you to hear
Speaker 1: some of the other amazing conversations that have been recorded
Speaker 1: on this beautiful land. I hope you've enjoyed this Deadly
Speaker 1: Young Instead of me saying until next time, by for now,
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave you with the words and our language,
Speaker 1: or word in our language, it says not goodbye, but
Speaker 1: we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2: What a moly.
Speaker 1: If you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit
Speaker 1: our show notes in the episode description. A big shout
Speaker 1: out to all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue
Speaker 1: to listen, watch, and support our podcast. Your feedback means
Speaker 1: the world. You can rate and review the podcast on
Speaker 1: Apple and Spotify, or even head to our socials and
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Speaker 1: hear from you. The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced
Speaker 1: by Clint Curtis.