1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,759
Speaker 1: Well, as you know, Closy, I'm very excited because the

2
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,720
Speaker 1: Tattooist of our Schwitz has been released today on stan.

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:11,159
Speaker 1: Every episode will be streaming from nine o'clock. But the

4
00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,800
Speaker 1: most important person apart from Lally, who the story is about,

5
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: is the lady who wrote this book. Heather Morris is

6
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,800
Speaker 1: joining us now. Good morning, They're welcome.

7
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 2: Good morning everybody, and thank you. Look as so lovely

8
00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: to be speaking to you on this year, very auspicious

9
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,200
Speaker 2: day for it.

10
00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 3: Well, it is lovely to be speaking to you.

11
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,920
Speaker 1: And firstly, may I say on behalf of the twelve

12
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: million people around the world at least who read and

13
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,279
Speaker 1: loved this book as much as I do.

14
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 3: Thank you. It is so beautiful.

15
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,159
Speaker 1: But for those who haven't read it, is it possible

16
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: to give us a very brief synopsis.

17
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Lally Sokobosov playboy Love Them and Leave Him from

18
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 2: Fatis Lava and Slovakia was taken to Alschwitz and within

19
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 2: about three or four months he was given the job

20
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,319
Speaker 2: of being the tattooist. One day he held the arm

21
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 2: of a young girl dressed in rags, her head shaven, unbathed,

22
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,120
Speaker 2: and he looked into her eyes and sixty years later,

23
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,800
Speaker 2: I sat with him and he told me how he

24
00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,960
Speaker 2: knew and that member that instant he would never love

25
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,200
Speaker 2: a mother. Wow.

26
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 4: Wow, that's powtiful. Powerful. To this day, we can hear

27
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 4: the emotion in your voice.

28
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:22,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, how did you?

29
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 1: I totally understand that. How did you meet Lally Heather?

30
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,840
Speaker 2: Crazy? Crazy way? I agreed to have a cup of

31
00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 2: coffee with a friend I hadn't seen for some time,

32
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,640
Speaker 2: and she simply said to me over coffee, By the way,

33
00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 2: I have a friend whose mother has just died and

34
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,440
Speaker 2: his father has asked him to find somebody he can

35
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 2: tell a story to. That person can't be Jewish, and

36
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 2: you're not Jewish? Do you want to meet him? And

37
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 2: I went yes, Sure, I had no idea what I

38
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 2: would walk into a week later.

39
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and how it would change your life. They talk

40
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 5: about starting with a bang is a debut novel. Were

41
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 5: you even surprised by this incredible success?

42
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 2: Oh? Utterly, because it took so long to get out,

43
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 2: because I ready to the screenplay, because Bloody wanted to

44
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 2: be made into a film and he wanted to beout

45
00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt, and then he one Ryan Gosling to play him. Yeah,

46
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 2: some of the new release movies trying to find the

47
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 2: perfect person.

48
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:27,800
Speaker 3: Ran Goslin.

49
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he said it on him. I told him

50
00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 2: Brad was too old and and it was that format

51
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,800
Speaker 2: a screenplace so long. And it was only when I

52
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 2: was complaining to my sister in law in San Diego

53
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,760
Speaker 2: one day that those dods one hundred miles of their

54
00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 2: own in Hollywood didn't know a decent story of her son.

55
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,519
Speaker 2: So I've been sending every studio around the world. I'm

56
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 2: sending them the story. And she looked at me and said, oh,

57
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 2: for goodness, sa right, the bloody thingers a bocking get

58
00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,360
Speaker 2: on good advice.

59
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,359
Speaker 1: Well, okay, it came to it the other way around.

60
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 1: But Harvey cattell casters as.

61
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 3: Lally, how do you feel about that?

62
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't think of anything better than Harvey

63
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Cattel forget Ryan Goswiin.

64
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, well well Ryan couldn't play He probably could

65
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 2: have played them with the old buddy, now't not the

66
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:18,079
Speaker 2: young one?

67
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 3: Yes?

68
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 2: Sorry, Ryan, No, Look, Harvey, look he is beyond brilliant.

69
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 2: People around him in whose field and whose advisors say

70
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 2: this is probably one of the best performances he's ever done. Yeah,

71
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 2: he got so so involved in it before shirt he

72
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: had the glasses made and with his script foot and

73
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,560
Speaker 2: so he couldn't get used to being like And I

74
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:46,840
Speaker 2: sent him lots of videos of Larly than I have,

75
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 2: and then I got to sit down with him before

76
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 2: he started filming, and he's very cheeky and very charming,

77
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 2: and he wanted to know everything about Molly, how he sat,

78
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 2: how he walked, how he spoke, and whenever I said

79
00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 2: Lally's name or gives his name, he corrected me that

80
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't pronounce it properly. Give me a play. I

81
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:12,120
Speaker 2: come from down number in the European accent. Sorry scratch, Yes,

82
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 2: but he is. He is wonderful and well, yeah, he

83
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,400
Speaker 2: probably and you'll see it play out. She would watch

84
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 2: it and I was going to make you cry. Okay,

85
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,360
Speaker 2: I cry already for you.

86
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 1: Someone plays you, Melanie Olynsky plays you.

87
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,760
Speaker 3: How does How's the real is that?

88
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I look at this of mine wrote to

89
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 2: me months ago and said, you know how, as kids

90
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,000
Speaker 2: we used to play a game saying you know, who

91
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 2: would play me in a movie? Gets to answer that?

92
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 2: That's very It's very It was very surreal, and it

93
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,280
Speaker 2: was a hard thing to wrap my head around. It

94
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,479
Speaker 2: was a hard thing for me to be convinced of too.

95
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,159
Speaker 2: But when I mess her for the first time before

96
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,640
Speaker 2: she started filming, and she's so shy and quiet, and

97
00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,720
Speaker 2: she said to me, she said, look, I'm nothing like

98
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 2: you because she watched your videos of me. And I went, yeah,

99
00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 2: I said, I think you're going to have to toughen up

100
00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:11,520
Speaker 2: girls around, but she does just brilliant. My kids have

101
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 2: approved of her, so I'll tell you that I won't

102
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 2: have a saying my kids who go, Mum, she's awesome.

103
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, particular approval at the highest level.

104
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,600
Speaker 5: How about control or things that you can You've obviously

105
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,960
Speaker 5: been involved with the actors, but how much control can

106
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 5: you have on the production itself? And was it hard

107
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 5: to hold back at times?

108
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 2: I was a consultant, that was a given. There was

109
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 2: no contact going to be fine with anybody unless I

110
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 2: had that role. And the brilliant makers Synchronosty Stalls in

111
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 2: the Sky totally acquiesced in many cases to when I said, no, look,

112
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,680
Speaker 2: I want that changed. And so we drafted the script.

113
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,159
Speaker 2: All episodes are being sent to me, and this is

114
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,520
Speaker 2: a period a couple of years, and we just worked

115
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 2: through them, and when I would say, look can we

116
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 2: change that, they go, well, look we can, but this

117
00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 2: is why we're doing it this way. I needed to

118
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 2: be educated and how your books are adapted. But still now, look,

119
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,799
Speaker 2: they listened to me and I listened to them, and

120
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 2: we collaborators, and that's how projects get done.

121
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:10,919
Speaker 1: I feel it would have been a bit of a

122
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: double whammy for you, Heather, because not only are you

123
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 1: sort of hanging over your baby, your book to and

124
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,520
Speaker 1: then they're you know, tinkering with it and so on,

125
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: but you must have felt you were also representing Lali

126
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,840
Speaker 1: Sokolov as well. In any so you were twice there,

127
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,359
Speaker 1: you know, twice the anxious.

128
00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was my thing right from the start

129
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 2: with them. You will not, in any way of shape

130
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 2: or form change the depiction of the characters of Lali

131
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,719
Speaker 2: and Guita. Yep, you want to make Baretsky a better

132
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 2: guiden than I've made him. Knock yourself out. But the

133
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 2: personalities and who Lally and Guitar were, that was that

134
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,920
Speaker 2: was a Nogo zone. And yeah, look that they had

135
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,160
Speaker 2: really they had no problem with that, and they were

136
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 2: why we want to pee off sort of twelve million.

137
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 4: Readers very disappointing.

138
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,680
Speaker 3: We will get very angry. Random general book question.

139
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 1: Why are there different book covers for different countries where

140
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:10,880
Speaker 1: the country gets to.

141
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 2: Choose their book cover. They know what works in their country,

142
00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,040
Speaker 2: and of them, I've gone, I love it, I love it.

143
00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 2: Now I get the old one, I go, yeah, what

144
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,400
Speaker 2: are you thinking? But I don't look like you said

145
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,040
Speaker 2: to me for quote approval in advance that my London

146
00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 2: publishers to say to me, approve it here, they'll approve it.

147
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 2: They know what they're doing.

148
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 4: Okay.

149
00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,760
Speaker 5: Then the marketing for their own, their own area, that

150
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 5: is bizarre, isn't I hear that? When I was a kid,

151
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 5: I was reading Archie and Mad comics. Is it true

152
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 5: you were devouring the Encyclopedia Britannica.

153
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 2: They're right?

154
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 4: Is that what you were reading? Is that what you're into?

155
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? I wanted to escape from my small town New

156
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 2: Zealand and go into these foreign, exotic places. Well, I

157
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 2: was so bored with my life at home.

158
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 1: Served you well, Now I must ask Silk, A story

159
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 1: and three is equally beautiful, and I don't do you

160
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,080
Speaker 1: do you call it a trilogy? I know they're clearly entwined,

161
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: but I guess you kind of cold.

162
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if I like the words.

163
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 1: They're such standalone books of their own, but they are entwined,

164
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,920
Speaker 1: are there? Do you think there will be plans for

165
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,679
Speaker 1: those next to get the Telly treatment?

166
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole trilogy thing. Really, you've got to know

167
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 2: you're going to write it before you're writing.

168
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

169
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 2: I only got one book deal, so you be writing

170
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 2: any other books?

171
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 3: They're just they late.

172
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, and Silker's saw it can of out

173
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,280
Speaker 2: because Lily made me promise i'd like it. I did

174
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,200
Speaker 2: what I could because I only had one book deal

175
00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 2: by peppering her throughout her Yeah, and so what I

176
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,320
Speaker 2: hoped would happened did happen. And readers around the world

177
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,080
Speaker 2: writing the publishers and they what happened the Silker.

178
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,960
Speaker 4: I want to learn more about Silk demanded.

179
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly how I felt when I got to

180
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,960
Speaker 1: the edit another book deal. So I imagine how happy

181
00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,960
Speaker 1: I was to say that there was her story.

182
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and three sisters came to me because one of

183
00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 2: the sons and one of the sisters was took the

184
00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,040
Speaker 2: book from Canada, which she did have the same cover

185
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 2: as we did. Yeah, into tel Aviv. This sted on

186
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,280
Speaker 2: his mum's copy table while he was reading it, and

187
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,800
Speaker 2: she walked past, looks at it, and oh, that must

188
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,560
Speaker 2: be about Lulley and Giza. Yeah, she said, how would

189
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 2: you know that? And he said, well, look at the

190
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 2: number on the girl's arm. Now look at the number

191
00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 2: on my the.

192
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,199
Speaker 4: Three wod what a story?

193
00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: You know what? Yeah, the youngest of the sisters, Lily,

194
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 2: she used to the knife. She's ninety eight. She's struggling

195
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 2: in Tel Aviv, like everybody in that part of the world.

196
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 2: And I know that silk Is technically is the next story,

197
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 2: but I would love that story, her story to be

198
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,320
Speaker 2: picked up while she's still alive. She has just offered

199
00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 2: so much to it.

200
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,120
Speaker 1: Well, fingers crossed, and I have no doubt it probably

201
00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 1: will be a discuss after the Tattoos Kyle Schwitz comes

202
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 1: out today thirteen million copies.

203
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,720
Speaker 3: I beg your pardon, I haven't been sold. I've been

204
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 3: sold worldwide.

205
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,760
Speaker 1: I dare say maybe a few months will be sold

206
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 1: by the end of this weekend.

207
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:13,360
Speaker 3: Heather.

208
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,000
Speaker 2: Once again, it hasn't been made public yet, but on

209
00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 2: Sunday in London the Sunday Times Bestsello list it will

210
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,120
Speaker 2: come out as being number three in the bestseller list

211
00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 2: in the UK.

212
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 3: A congratulations.

213
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,960
Speaker 1: Is it is a beautiful story and story that I'm

214
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 1: so glad you know has been told and it's been

215
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,959
Speaker 1: an absolute pleasure to talk to you.

216
00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Bo